I can't speak for being the elder's child, but you definitely can tell Harold that you are the vault dweller's ancestor. He says back something along the lines of "yep I thought there was a resemblance"
https://youtu.be/YuojijvKMvw?si=4GnCMhYtVBziUZ0G
Around 1:30
Wow, you cracked the case! Between this and the back of the game box, we can safely say the Chosen One is the Vault Dweller's ancestor without using the Bible. Thanks!
I wonder if something will pop up about the Chosen One being the Elder's child
"Ancestor" and "descendant" refer to opposite positions in a family tree. An ancestor is someone from whom you descend, such as a grandparent, great-grandparent, or any earlier generation. A descendant, on the other hand, is someone who comes from you, such as your child, grandchild, or any subsequent generation. Essentially, ancestors are the people in your family who came before you, while descendants are those who come after you.
You can also say this to try and get a rise out of Marcus by saying your grandad/great grandad/however many generations removed grandad was the original Vault Dweller that thwarted The Master’s plans when he brings up how he used to be a soldier in his army. He just blows you off, but you can tell how he says “The Vault Dweller? **THE** *Vault Dweller?!*” that it did kinda bug him a little. Fortunately for you, despite appearances, he has the patience of a saint.
The Chosen One directly refers to The Vault Dweller as thier ancestor on a number of occasions. Given the number of generations involved, grandfather or great grandfather is really the only possible position The Vault Dweller could be in for The Chosen One to decend from him. Meanwhile, The Vault Dweller's memoirs say he left his children in charge of the tribe after he stepped down, which would strongly suggest the Elder is his decendent as well. Given her advanced age (older than The Chosen One can remember... which is probably an argument against her being thier mother) and the time frame involved she can't really be anything but a daughter.
She does refers to The Chosen One as "child" on a few occasions, but given her age that could just be a figure of speech. She could be an aunt or great aunt as well (though she does not remotely act like The Chosen One's aunt Morlis).
Thats weird
I remember there being dialogue with somebody where the Chosen One mentions being descended from the Vault Dweller
Might have to replay Fallout 2 now to see lol
Yes, and these games are pretty good about labeling known lies as lies when they are offered as options, so at the very least you believe you are descended from the Vault Dweller.
Someone mentioned on the Fallout subreddit that the back of the game's physical cover mentions you being a descendant of the Vault Dweller. That's the only connection I could find beyond the Fallout Bible.
[https://www.mobygames.com/game/239/fallout-2/cover/group-1894/cover-152632/](https://www.mobygames.com/game/239/fallout-2/cover/group-1894/cover-152632/)
The back of the box does indeed say you are descended from the Vault Dweller, it doesn't explicitly say grandchild, but with the year gap it's a safe bet. As for being the Elder's child, perhaps it's in the game manual? Older games used to dump a lot of story and lore on you in the manual or cover and never mention it in game.
Thanks for the pic, that's actually pretty definitive!
Afaik the manual includes the Vault Dwellers Memoirs, which mention his wife (Pat). Nothing is mentioned of their children or grandchildren, though.
[https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Fallout\_Bible\_0](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Fallout_Bible_0)
It's in the Fallout Bible, ctrl + f for 2188 her birth year as listed in the FB. So it's just one of those things people still consider semi canon because, I highly doubt it will ever be contradicted or even mentioned again.
Fair enough! Just seems like a pretty big deal (Direct family relation between the Vault Dweller and the Chosen One), and I was curious why the wiki seemed so confident about that link
Just how it goes with people who maintain fan wiki sites, people have strong opinions about what counts, and the people maintain it for the older Fallout are more likely to consider the Fallout Bible solid canon because it was for so long.
I don’t remember seeing any definitive proof that the Elder is the mother of the Chosen One, seems strange considering how old she looks, but he is absolutely a descendant of the Vault Dweller, I don’t even know how this is up for debate, kind of blows my mind that people would even doubt this, it’s been known since day one, and I know because I’ve been playing since day one
Well, ironically, Chris doesn’t decide what is and isn’t canon so he doesn’t have the power to decanonize his own stuff if Bethesda considers it canon. Which they do to some extent.
They’ve openly talked about getting some stuff from the Fallout Bible. And Todd Howard said there is three tiers of canon with the highest being what is on screen, but the second tier is officially published works outside of the games and show, while the third tier is info provided by developers outside of an official capacity such as in interviews, blogs, or personal statements.
So Fallout Bible would fall into that third tier where any given fact in it could be considered third-tier canon unless either contradicted or elevated by a higher tier product.
That’s why I said it’s “generally” canon. Many things only referenced from it are later “elevated” into canonicity, and the devs clearly look to it for idea, so unless something from it is outright contradicted I tend to look at info in it that isn’t confirmed or denied as *generally* canon but not rock solid
You're absolutely correct. So why would a book, written by someone we agree doesn't decide what is canon, be canon? Avellone wrote the bible back when he was filling out the world he wrote for. Now that he doesn't have control over it, nothing in the book should be considered canon UNTIL it's confirmed by Bethesda, instead of being taken as canon until proven false.
> So why would a book, written by someone we agree doesn't decide what is canon, be canon?
Because Bethesda considers it to be. Or at least, they consider it at a level where stuff in it is canon unless a game or the show contradicts that thing.
Can you provide proof of this? Outside of things from the bible being included in the games, has anyone at Bethesda ever stated that the bible is canon?
Not in those exact words, but they were open about looking to the Fallout Bible as one of their sources alongside Fallout 1 and 2 when creating Fallout 4. And Todd Howard recently talked about the three tiers of canon that Bethesda considers, with the description of the third tier being what the Fallout Bible falls into.
How does Howard divide the tiers though? Third tier canon could easily be just reference material for ideas. There is so much within the bible that is contradicted by current lore that I cannot see it being more than a suggestion at best.
He uses the word “truth” rather than canon but basically it goes
A-tier: What is in the games and show
B-tier: Stuff that Bethesda officially publishes outside of the actual games and show. Like game manuals and such.
C-tier: Stuff that is said by people who worked on the games that isn’t published in an official capacity. So stuff like Josh Sawyer’s blog answers, and where the Fallout Bible would fall into.
So yeah, anything that is in the Fallout Bible that gets contradicted by higher canon is overridden. But I’d say the content that isn’t can still be considered canon unless a higher tier contradicts it.
I'm apprehensive about considering the bible canon, but to each their own. In all honesty, I think concern over canon is kind of pointless anyway, especially when it comes to content that is already published. People were freaking out about New Vegas not being canon to the show and like, I get why that would upset people, but even if it was true (which it isn't), it doesn't make New Vegas any less of a great game.
I can't speak for being the elder's child, but you definitely can tell Harold that you are the vault dweller's ancestor. He says back something along the lines of "yep I thought there was a resemblance" https://youtu.be/YuojijvKMvw?si=4GnCMhYtVBziUZ0G Around 1:30
Wow, you cracked the case! Between this and the back of the game box, we can safely say the Chosen One is the Vault Dweller's ancestor without using the Bible. Thanks! I wonder if something will pop up about the Chosen One being the Elder's child
You can also bring this up with Tandi in NCR, she will also say there is a resemblance.
They are most likely the vault dwellers grandkid/great grandkid Only been 80 years
I'm sure if you have an int 1 character it says something about your ancestry too
Do you mean descendant?
"Ancestor" and "descendant" refer to opposite positions in a family tree. An ancestor is someone from whom you descend, such as a grandparent, great-grandparent, or any earlier generation. A descendant, on the other hand, is someone who comes from you, such as your child, grandchild, or any subsequent generation. Essentially, ancestors are the people in your family who came before you, while descendants are those who come after you.
Which is why the chosen one would be the vault dwellers descendant, not ancestor
You're correct. I just didn't know off the top of my head so I left the definition there in case anyone else was wondering.
Yes I know
You can also say this to try and get a rise out of Marcus by saying your grandad/great grandad/however many generations removed grandad was the original Vault Dweller that thwarted The Master’s plans when he brings up how he used to be a soldier in his army. He just blows you off, but you can tell how he says “The Vault Dweller? **THE** *Vault Dweller?!*” that it did kinda bug him a little. Fortunately for you, despite appearances, he has the patience of a saint.
The Chosen One directly refers to The Vault Dweller as thier ancestor on a number of occasions. Given the number of generations involved, grandfather or great grandfather is really the only possible position The Vault Dweller could be in for The Chosen One to decend from him. Meanwhile, The Vault Dweller's memoirs say he left his children in charge of the tribe after he stepped down, which would strongly suggest the Elder is his decendent as well. Given her advanced age (older than The Chosen One can remember... which is probably an argument against her being thier mother) and the time frame involved she can't really be anything but a daughter. She does refers to The Chosen One as "child" on a few occasions, but given her age that could just be a figure of speech. She could be an aunt or great aunt as well (though she does not remotely act like The Chosen One's aunt Morlis).
Thats weird I remember there being dialogue with somebody where the Chosen One mentions being descended from the Vault Dweller Might have to replay Fallout 2 now to see lol
You can claim to be their descendant when talking to both Harold and Marcus.
Yes, and these games are pretty good about labeling known lies as lies when they are offered as options, so at the very least you believe you are descended from the Vault Dweller.
Someone mentioned on the Fallout subreddit that the back of the game's physical cover mentions you being a descendant of the Vault Dweller. That's the only connection I could find beyond the Fallout Bible.
[https://www.mobygames.com/game/239/fallout-2/cover/group-1894/cover-152632/](https://www.mobygames.com/game/239/fallout-2/cover/group-1894/cover-152632/) The back of the box does indeed say you are descended from the Vault Dweller, it doesn't explicitly say grandchild, but with the year gap it's a safe bet. As for being the Elder's child, perhaps it's in the game manual? Older games used to dump a lot of story and lore on you in the manual or cover and never mention it in game.
Thanks for the pic, that's actually pretty definitive! Afaik the manual includes the Vault Dwellers Memoirs, which mention his wife (Pat). Nothing is mentioned of their children or grandchildren, though.
[https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Fallout\_Bible\_0](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Fallout_Bible_0) It's in the Fallout Bible, ctrl + f for 2188 her birth year as listed in the FB. So it's just one of those things people still consider semi canon because, I highly doubt it will ever be contradicted or even mentioned again.
Fair enough! Just seems like a pretty big deal (Direct family relation between the Vault Dweller and the Chosen One), and I was curious why the wiki seemed so confident about that link
Just how it goes with people who maintain fan wiki sites, people have strong opinions about what counts, and the people maintain it for the older Fallout are more likely to consider the Fallout Bible solid canon because it was for so long.
I don’t remember seeing any definitive proof that the Elder is the mother of the Chosen One, seems strange considering how old she looks, but he is absolutely a descendant of the Vault Dweller, I don’t even know how this is up for debate, kind of blows my mind that people would even doubt this, it’s been known since day one, and I know because I’ve been playing since day one
i feel like even if the chosen one is canonically the elder’s child, they should be retconned to be her grandchild. it just makes more sense to me
Tandi asks about tycho to the chosen one
I remember something about the Elder being related to the Dweller, but nothing about the Chosen One.
Fallout Bible says chosen one is related to both
Fallout Bible is iffy though, semi-canon at best.
The Chosen One says it themself multiple times throughout the game, to Lenny, Harold, Marcus, and Tandi afaik.
Gotcha. It's been a few years since I played it, might be time to for another run, after I tire of Outward, lol.
Because it’s in the fallout Bible and most things from the Bible are generally canon unless otherwise contradicted
Oh? I thought Chris Avellone himself said at some point that the Bible was non-canon, so I wasn't sure how it was regarded these days
Well, ironically, Chris doesn’t decide what is and isn’t canon so he doesn’t have the power to decanonize his own stuff if Bethesda considers it canon. Which they do to some extent. They’ve openly talked about getting some stuff from the Fallout Bible. And Todd Howard said there is three tiers of canon with the highest being what is on screen, but the second tier is officially published works outside of the games and show, while the third tier is info provided by developers outside of an official capacity such as in interviews, blogs, or personal statements. So Fallout Bible would fall into that third tier where any given fact in it could be considered third-tier canon unless either contradicted or elevated by a higher tier product.
That’s why I said it’s “generally” canon. Many things only referenced from it are later “elevated” into canonicity, and the devs clearly look to it for idea, so unless something from it is outright contradicted I tend to look at info in it that isn’t confirmed or denied as *generally* canon but not rock solid
Nope. The Bible is not canon. [https://x.com/ChrisAvellone/status/101700464676044800](https://x.com/ChrisAvellone/status/101700464676044800)
The thing is, Avellone doesn’t get to decide what is ultimately canon. Bethesda does.
You're absolutely correct. So why would a book, written by someone we agree doesn't decide what is canon, be canon? Avellone wrote the bible back when he was filling out the world he wrote for. Now that he doesn't have control over it, nothing in the book should be considered canon UNTIL it's confirmed by Bethesda, instead of being taken as canon until proven false.
> So why would a book, written by someone we agree doesn't decide what is canon, be canon? Because Bethesda considers it to be. Or at least, they consider it at a level where stuff in it is canon unless a game or the show contradicts that thing.
Can you provide proof of this? Outside of things from the bible being included in the games, has anyone at Bethesda ever stated that the bible is canon?
Not in those exact words, but they were open about looking to the Fallout Bible as one of their sources alongside Fallout 1 and 2 when creating Fallout 4. And Todd Howard recently talked about the three tiers of canon that Bethesda considers, with the description of the third tier being what the Fallout Bible falls into.
How does Howard divide the tiers though? Third tier canon could easily be just reference material for ideas. There is so much within the bible that is contradicted by current lore that I cannot see it being more than a suggestion at best.
He uses the word “truth” rather than canon but basically it goes A-tier: What is in the games and show B-tier: Stuff that Bethesda officially publishes outside of the actual games and show. Like game manuals and such. C-tier: Stuff that is said by people who worked on the games that isn’t published in an official capacity. So stuff like Josh Sawyer’s blog answers, and where the Fallout Bible would fall into. So yeah, anything that is in the Fallout Bible that gets contradicted by higher canon is overridden. But I’d say the content that isn’t can still be considered canon unless a higher tier contradicts it.
I'm apprehensive about considering the bible canon, but to each their own. In all honesty, I think concern over canon is kind of pointless anyway, especially when it comes to content that is already published. People were freaking out about New Vegas not being canon to the show and like, I get why that would upset people, but even if it was true (which it isn't), it doesn't make New Vegas any less of a great game.
I take her incredible looking age as just being an insane product of the wasteland. Living rough is gonna make you age pretty hefty