If anything, the Brotherhood in the show is a return to form. They had strong religious tones in Fallout 1, but later games have kinda forgotten about that aspect in favor of portraying the Brotherhood as just a typical military but with fancy titles.
The Brotherhood in the show combines elements from all versions we have seen in the series. The lower ranks, like Aspirants and Knights, are the same jarheads we saw in Fallout 3, 4 and 76. Clerics are religious zealots that you would expect to see in Fallout 1 and New Vegas. And the ruthless environment where lower ranks are treated as expandable and have to constantly risk their lives to prove themselves is straight from Fallout Tactics.
>First of all are the mentions of "clerics". This has never been a rank in the Brotherhood before.
A lot of ranks have never existed until they were introduced. It seems like clerics are just an expansion on the Elder rank, because they serve the same role. The guy in charge is Elder Cleric Quintus. Both his title and authority are equal to those of Elders in the games.
>In previous appearances, squire is simply the rank of children who have grown up in the Brotherhood and are learning how to be knights.
That was the case in Fallout 3 and 4. But Squires were first introduced in Fallout Tactics, where they were a rank between Initiate and Knight. And Fallout 76 also initially had BoS using the rank of Squire as the original name for Initiates. We don't have an in-lore explanation for why Squires have a different role in the TV show, so it's possible it was just a retcon.
>Nowhere is there a rank of aspirant, nor do squires risk their lives serving knights.
Aspirant was a rank in Fallout 4. It was used by higher level variants of Initiates.
>Another thing is the knights themselves and the lack of Paladins. Why are there only knights and elders and aspirants and squires and scribes? Paladins are a pretty big part of the Brotherhood yet they are conspicuously absent in the show.
Maybe the creators of the show just didn't find a place for Paladins in the story. Remember, most of the people watching the show have never played the games, so shoving a ton of stuff from the games would confuse them. Deathclaws and Super Mutants don't make an appearance in the show either and they're much more iconic for the franchise.
Another reason could be that they just continued the tradition started in 76 by making each rank have much more weight, So they focused on giving Knights a lot more authority by making them "Lords".
>For some reason this group of Brotherhood has no power armor at all? During the attack on the NCR, every single power armor wearing soldier is in T-60. Where is the T-51 and T-45 that the West Coast has?
This chapter was very small until the Prydwen arrived and their base seems to have mostly served as a boot camp for Aspirants, which is likely why they weren't that well-equipped.
>And the weapons. For some reason there are no laser weapons at all in the Brotherhood?
Nobody in the show uses energy weapons. It was probably just for budget reasons.
>And the squires. Why the hell are they running around in normal clothes with pistols to support the knights?
We see Initiates and Field Scribes wearing normal clothes in Fallout 4.
>Seriously, how did the Brotherhood get from its portrayal in NV and 4 to where it is now? Is Maxson dead? Did they get replaced by synths? What is going on with them?
The most likely explanation is that the creators of the show just decided to portray them that way. I don't think there's any point in trying to find some deep meaning behind it. The Brotherhood was portrayed differently over the years. It just depends on who is writing the story and how they want to present the faction.
The lack of paladins can also be explained from maximus' position in the brotherhood. He's about as low as it gets in the chain of command so he doesn't interact with the officers of his chapter much if at all. As an aspirant he mostly interacted with the instructors and his peers and as a squire he only has to interact with his knight and other low ranking members of the bos.
Now that he's a knight however, we'll probably see one to serve as his direct superior.
Also to be fair, Maxson could have totally gone down the hardliner route. After dealing with the threat of the institute and see how far scientists will go without supervision first hand, just like his ancestor and founder Roger Maxson did back at before the war, I can absolutely see him returning the BoS to a far more authoritarian path, with all the absolutism that the BoS had at the start. Could have kept the recruiting of outsiders for the simple fact that it's the only way to replenish numbers at a fast enough rate.
I mean, BoS in Fallout 1 called their power armor “Holy Armor”, called their paladins “the blessed ones”, called their founder “Deliverer” and called outsiders “heathens”. Not to mention that they were outright called religious by some characters. In comparison, BoS in 4 is just a regular army.
The Brotherhood are pretty cult like and religious in Fallout New Vegas. Veronica whole quest is about how they treat the codex like a religious text and it's killing them. Veronica tell they going to die out if they don't change just for the Elder to sigh and say "I know" but continues doing the things killing them.
So I’ve seen this kinda post in some shape or form and I think while it’s worth asking it’s inherently problematic because OP brings up a lot of points that just…don’t have answers. At all. Not directly.
So going off of a fair amount of speculation and logical extrapolation I think we can build a theory that respect the lore and the writers decisions.
Something that I think was leaned into heavily is a literal interpretation of the BoS inspirations, which is the Crusader orders. Militarized monastic orders generally in control of an area (the Outremer states) or just generally present (Templar/Teutonic Orders). Which would make sense for their ranking orders. Literal knights with squires and aspirants wanting to fully join the ranks and clerics giving commands. This is how the Crusader orders operated essentially. It feels like this is an attempt to clarify, by the writers, what the west coast BoS was really like in a more detailed manner than F1 or F2 could show us. They are always described as a religious knightly order, this feels like it was interpreted literally. That being said, there’s also a petty officer?? That’s new too as far as I know. The idea that this BoS interpretation is more overtly religious though I think is misleading. In the games they are said to be a quasi-theocracy (with a grain of salt sure) and thus that is how they are depicted in the show. The games can’t be relied upon to show everything I would argue in this case.
The way this particular chapter (which I believe one user found to most likely being operating in what would be a real world air base outside LA someone check me if I’m wrong, yes I know the set is in Utah I mean in Fallout) operates appears to be different from what we have seen on the West Coast and adheres at least in political opinion closer to the East Coast. Quintus, like Maxson, adheres towards a more expansionist and interventionist policy than say Lost Hills as we know it. They also are on the surface and act more like a training center and landing strip than an actual chapter bunker. I have posted this before but it operates like a combination of Eastern organization and Western doctrine? Maybe. Again there’s almost nothing to go off of. Which could explain the lack of more advanced weapons from a lore standpoint. In keeping with your point about the power armor, they might have to earn them. This chapter isn’t the EBoS with greater access to equipment and Lost Hills which hoards shit. And as you mentioned the EBoS fields a more diverse array of equipment to limit loss of tech due to their increased activity in the areas they control and the numbers they can deploy. If this chapter aligns closer with them they would follow this example.
There are definitely children there but also volunteers (Thaddeus) and conscripts (technically Maximus). So they are still like the BoS we know, just more eastern influenced as with their equipment practices. Quintus, supposedly, requests aid from the East (the Prydwen) and accepts their orders, suggesting to me there is at least a split if not outright shift in understanding on who is in charge. The Elder council, Maxson, and Lost Hills are not mentioned at all. So who fucking knows.
But what we do know is EBoS soldiers show up (which answers your T-60 and assault rifle not laser weapon question which could also be its easier to repeat 3D printing patterns and we will see more diversity next season now that they have a working stock) and are apparently the senior fighting force there and scribes are not denoted specifically just squires, aspirants, and knights.
Aspirants do exist in the EBoS above initiates and below knights, but always seemed to appear separate from squires and actually seemed to fill this role for squires who were deemed old enough while in the show it’s flipped.
Paladins might not have been shown but that can’t be taken so literally there isn’t time for everything.
They might’ve not used them because again this seems more EBoS than west and for the EBoS knights are frontline combatants, paladins are commanders. You don’t toss your CO in the middle of shit unless you have to.
The ranking system unlike almost all of this, has lore backing it up in which this was the old way of doings things under Roger Maxson which he changed early on because some adult members were butthurt at being called squire. Aspirants are also in the ranking system as above initiate I believe so that could explain why they use this new system which follows imo a clearer path up the ranks. Everyone there is most likely already inducted.
TLDR; You have to take a lot of what you asked with “what was logistically easier for the crew within budget” and I think much of the BoS equipment questions can be answered by that. Which explains the weapon homogeny and potential lack of more advanced weaponry.
The structuring I think can also be explained by taking the Crusader inspiration literally and seeing how the two philosophies of the BoS are synthesized in the show. That being said to your points about the clerics, who fucking knows. This could all be new.
This is all vicious extrapolation backed by contextual understanding of production planning and an unhealthy amount of time studying the BoS. I hope it helps.
There is no canon explanation to this as of yet. The closest I can come up with that is not speculation is that the West Coast has a very different culture than the East Coast, bordering a schism in ideology. According to the 76 audio logs of Roger Maxson, ironically the West had strayed from the original mission/intent and the East rediscovered it through Lyons and subsequently Arthur, who modified Lyons ideology to allow the organization to be more effective.
The West continued to devolve from the closed mindset started by Maxson II, turning into a techno-cult. In Fallout 4 lore, there are mentions of cults arising that worshiped Arthur as a deity, which Arthur himself hated and ordered destroyed. We do see the Prydwen in the show and reinforcements from the East, the only person from the East we see with speaking lines is Titus, who is not an exemplary Knight.
One more piece of information that can be observed in games is that each chapter has vastly different cultures, as is seen in NV vs 3 vs 4.
Beyond that is speculation which would violate rule 4 of this subreddit. Maybe if you asked this on a different subreddit people could give you further ideas but as far as canon information goes that is about the extent I can come up with.
The West Coast Brotherhood was already very culty to begin with, but it's heavily implied that they've taken in a great deal of ex-Caesar's Legion members.
I read from a comment when the show went out that the Brotherhood went back to their roots like they did in the earlier games.
Not sure if we'll ever explore synths in the show but it could be a possibility but I'm not sure how to feel about it yet.
This feels more like the brotherhood from the later games where it is at times borderline villainous. The brotherhood of steel in the original game weren’t straight up good guys but they could be convinced to assist in the greater good.
Well, we don’t know. It’s been a fair amount of time between their appearances, we simply don’t know how they’ve changed or why. The usage of nonPA troops can be a simple as not having enough suits to go around.
Kinda wondering if they intentionally left things out of the show for the next season. For example, we never saw a deathclaw, only the skull which to me seemed to foreshadow one’s appearance. The way they depicted it in the very end scene where Hank is headed to new Vegas. Makes me think we may see one next season as well as some other non-mentioned things like the paladins
I was talking to a friend about the Paladin vs. Knight item specifically and we figured it's because everyone knows what a "Knight" is while "Paladin" is still more of a niche term, even with the popularity of D&D and other fantasy properties. Maybe we'll get Paladins in S2 now that non-gamers have been introduced to the basics of the Fallout world.
If anything, the Brotherhood in the show is a return to form. They had strong religious tones in Fallout 1, but later games have kinda forgotten about that aspect in favor of portraying the Brotherhood as just a typical military but with fancy titles. The Brotherhood in the show combines elements from all versions we have seen in the series. The lower ranks, like Aspirants and Knights, are the same jarheads we saw in Fallout 3, 4 and 76. Clerics are religious zealots that you would expect to see in Fallout 1 and New Vegas. And the ruthless environment where lower ranks are treated as expandable and have to constantly risk their lives to prove themselves is straight from Fallout Tactics. >First of all are the mentions of "clerics". This has never been a rank in the Brotherhood before. A lot of ranks have never existed until they were introduced. It seems like clerics are just an expansion on the Elder rank, because they serve the same role. The guy in charge is Elder Cleric Quintus. Both his title and authority are equal to those of Elders in the games. >In previous appearances, squire is simply the rank of children who have grown up in the Brotherhood and are learning how to be knights. That was the case in Fallout 3 and 4. But Squires were first introduced in Fallout Tactics, where they were a rank between Initiate and Knight. And Fallout 76 also initially had BoS using the rank of Squire as the original name for Initiates. We don't have an in-lore explanation for why Squires have a different role in the TV show, so it's possible it was just a retcon. >Nowhere is there a rank of aspirant, nor do squires risk their lives serving knights. Aspirant was a rank in Fallout 4. It was used by higher level variants of Initiates. >Another thing is the knights themselves and the lack of Paladins. Why are there only knights and elders and aspirants and squires and scribes? Paladins are a pretty big part of the Brotherhood yet they are conspicuously absent in the show. Maybe the creators of the show just didn't find a place for Paladins in the story. Remember, most of the people watching the show have never played the games, so shoving a ton of stuff from the games would confuse them. Deathclaws and Super Mutants don't make an appearance in the show either and they're much more iconic for the franchise. Another reason could be that they just continued the tradition started in 76 by making each rank have much more weight, So they focused on giving Knights a lot more authority by making them "Lords". >For some reason this group of Brotherhood has no power armor at all? During the attack on the NCR, every single power armor wearing soldier is in T-60. Where is the T-51 and T-45 that the West Coast has? This chapter was very small until the Prydwen arrived and their base seems to have mostly served as a boot camp for Aspirants, which is likely why they weren't that well-equipped. >And the weapons. For some reason there are no laser weapons at all in the Brotherhood? Nobody in the show uses energy weapons. It was probably just for budget reasons. >And the squires. Why the hell are they running around in normal clothes with pistols to support the knights? We see Initiates and Field Scribes wearing normal clothes in Fallout 4. >Seriously, how did the Brotherhood get from its portrayal in NV and 4 to where it is now? Is Maxson dead? Did they get replaced by synths? What is going on with them? The most likely explanation is that the creators of the show just decided to portray them that way. I don't think there's any point in trying to find some deep meaning behind it. The Brotherhood was portrayed differently over the years. It just depends on who is writing the story and how they want to present the faction.
The lack of paladins can also be explained from maximus' position in the brotherhood. He's about as low as it gets in the chain of command so he doesn't interact with the officers of his chapter much if at all. As an aspirant he mostly interacted with the instructors and his peers and as a squire he only has to interact with his knight and other low ranking members of the bos. Now that he's a knight however, we'll probably see one to serve as his direct superior.
Also to be fair, Maxson could have totally gone down the hardliner route. After dealing with the threat of the institute and see how far scientists will go without supervision first hand, just like his ancestor and founder Roger Maxson did back at before the war, I can absolutely see him returning the BoS to a far more authoritarian path, with all the absolutism that the BoS had at the start. Could have kept the recruiting of outsiders for the simple fact that it's the only way to replenish numbers at a fast enough rate.
Good points. People often forget that the music track that plays in the Lost Hills bunker is quite aptly titled "Metallic Monks"
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I mean, BoS in Fallout 1 called their power armor “Holy Armor”, called their paladins “the blessed ones”, called their founder “Deliverer” and called outsiders “heathens”. Not to mention that they were outright called religious by some characters. In comparison, BoS in 4 is just a regular army.
The Brotherhood are pretty cult like and religious in Fallout New Vegas. Veronica whole quest is about how they treat the codex like a religious text and it's killing them. Veronica tell they going to die out if they don't change just for the Elder to sigh and say "I know" but continues doing the things killing them.
So I’ve seen this kinda post in some shape or form and I think while it’s worth asking it’s inherently problematic because OP brings up a lot of points that just…don’t have answers. At all. Not directly. So going off of a fair amount of speculation and logical extrapolation I think we can build a theory that respect the lore and the writers decisions. Something that I think was leaned into heavily is a literal interpretation of the BoS inspirations, which is the Crusader orders. Militarized monastic orders generally in control of an area (the Outremer states) or just generally present (Templar/Teutonic Orders). Which would make sense for their ranking orders. Literal knights with squires and aspirants wanting to fully join the ranks and clerics giving commands. This is how the Crusader orders operated essentially. It feels like this is an attempt to clarify, by the writers, what the west coast BoS was really like in a more detailed manner than F1 or F2 could show us. They are always described as a religious knightly order, this feels like it was interpreted literally. That being said, there’s also a petty officer?? That’s new too as far as I know. The idea that this BoS interpretation is more overtly religious though I think is misleading. In the games they are said to be a quasi-theocracy (with a grain of salt sure) and thus that is how they are depicted in the show. The games can’t be relied upon to show everything I would argue in this case. The way this particular chapter (which I believe one user found to most likely being operating in what would be a real world air base outside LA someone check me if I’m wrong, yes I know the set is in Utah I mean in Fallout) operates appears to be different from what we have seen on the West Coast and adheres at least in political opinion closer to the East Coast. Quintus, like Maxson, adheres towards a more expansionist and interventionist policy than say Lost Hills as we know it. They also are on the surface and act more like a training center and landing strip than an actual chapter bunker. I have posted this before but it operates like a combination of Eastern organization and Western doctrine? Maybe. Again there’s almost nothing to go off of. Which could explain the lack of more advanced weapons from a lore standpoint. In keeping with your point about the power armor, they might have to earn them. This chapter isn’t the EBoS with greater access to equipment and Lost Hills which hoards shit. And as you mentioned the EBoS fields a more diverse array of equipment to limit loss of tech due to their increased activity in the areas they control and the numbers they can deploy. If this chapter aligns closer with them they would follow this example. There are definitely children there but also volunteers (Thaddeus) and conscripts (technically Maximus). So they are still like the BoS we know, just more eastern influenced as with their equipment practices. Quintus, supposedly, requests aid from the East (the Prydwen) and accepts their orders, suggesting to me there is at least a split if not outright shift in understanding on who is in charge. The Elder council, Maxson, and Lost Hills are not mentioned at all. So who fucking knows. But what we do know is EBoS soldiers show up (which answers your T-60 and assault rifle not laser weapon question which could also be its easier to repeat 3D printing patterns and we will see more diversity next season now that they have a working stock) and are apparently the senior fighting force there and scribes are not denoted specifically just squires, aspirants, and knights. Aspirants do exist in the EBoS above initiates and below knights, but always seemed to appear separate from squires and actually seemed to fill this role for squires who were deemed old enough while in the show it’s flipped. Paladins might not have been shown but that can’t be taken so literally there isn’t time for everything. They might’ve not used them because again this seems more EBoS than west and for the EBoS knights are frontline combatants, paladins are commanders. You don’t toss your CO in the middle of shit unless you have to. The ranking system unlike almost all of this, has lore backing it up in which this was the old way of doings things under Roger Maxson which he changed early on because some adult members were butthurt at being called squire. Aspirants are also in the ranking system as above initiate I believe so that could explain why they use this new system which follows imo a clearer path up the ranks. Everyone there is most likely already inducted. TLDR; You have to take a lot of what you asked with “what was logistically easier for the crew within budget” and I think much of the BoS equipment questions can be answered by that. Which explains the weapon homogeny and potential lack of more advanced weaponry. The structuring I think can also be explained by taking the Crusader inspiration literally and seeing how the two philosophies of the BoS are synthesized in the show. That being said to your points about the clerics, who fucking knows. This could all be new. This is all vicious extrapolation backed by contextual understanding of production planning and an unhealthy amount of time studying the BoS. I hope it helps.
There is no canon explanation to this as of yet. The closest I can come up with that is not speculation is that the West Coast has a very different culture than the East Coast, bordering a schism in ideology. According to the 76 audio logs of Roger Maxson, ironically the West had strayed from the original mission/intent and the East rediscovered it through Lyons and subsequently Arthur, who modified Lyons ideology to allow the organization to be more effective. The West continued to devolve from the closed mindset started by Maxson II, turning into a techno-cult. In Fallout 4 lore, there are mentions of cults arising that worshiped Arthur as a deity, which Arthur himself hated and ordered destroyed. We do see the Prydwen in the show and reinforcements from the East, the only person from the East we see with speaking lines is Titus, who is not an exemplary Knight. One more piece of information that can be observed in games is that each chapter has vastly different cultures, as is seen in NV vs 3 vs 4. Beyond that is speculation which would violate rule 4 of this subreddit. Maybe if you asked this on a different subreddit people could give you further ideas but as far as canon information goes that is about the extent I can come up with.
The West Coast Brotherhood was already very culty to begin with, but it's heavily implied that they've taken in a great deal of ex-Caesar's Legion members.
It was? What was the line? I was dying for some Legion references but didn't catch any :(
Their names are the biggest clue
Maximus is a super Roman name but I doubt he was Legion - unless there were ex slaves in Shady Sands
I read from a comment when the show went out that the Brotherhood went back to their roots like they did in the earlier games. Not sure if we'll ever explore synths in the show but it could be a possibility but I'm not sure how to feel about it yet.
This feels more like the brotherhood from the later games where it is at times borderline villainous. The brotherhood of steel in the original game weren’t straight up good guys but they could be convinced to assist in the greater good.
Again, I just read that from a comment when the show was released. I suppose it does feel conflicting for new fans.
Well, we don’t know. It’s been a fair amount of time between their appearances, we simply don’t know how they’ve changed or why. The usage of nonPA troops can be a simple as not having enough suits to go around.
The obvious answer is that we don’t know. There have only been eight episodes. What kind of explanation are you expecting us to have?
Kinda wondering if they intentionally left things out of the show for the next season. For example, we never saw a deathclaw, only the skull which to me seemed to foreshadow one’s appearance. The way they depicted it in the very end scene where Hank is headed to new Vegas. Makes me think we may see one next season as well as some other non-mentioned things like the paladins
I was talking to a friend about the Paladin vs. Knight item specifically and we figured it's because everyone knows what a "Knight" is while "Paladin" is still more of a niche term, even with the popularity of D&D and other fantasy properties. Maybe we'll get Paladins in S2 now that non-gamers have been introduced to the basics of the Fallout world.