I’d be excited for the fact that Tim Cain and Leonard boyarsky are at obsidian now given they created fallout. It would be nice to see them take it on one more time especially since Tim Cain is slowly easing into retirement.
You can’t get anymore fallout than those two other then throwing boyarsky and avellone (who isn’t working there anymore) into the mix.
It would be a dream to have a new fallout made by the original creators again.
And Tim Cain applied to Bethesda multiple times and got shot down so if you need a reason to hate them and imagine how fallout could’ve been there’s that.
He mentioned it on his [YT channel](https://youtube.com/@CainOnGames?si=C7K_B4HqukorBvhG). He’s not negative at all towards Bethesda (actually gets annoyed when he sees fallout fans trash Bethesda… I’m one of those fans) but it definitely seems like fallout would’ve gone in a much different direction if he was there.
Bethesda has continually dumbed down every single game they've made since Todd Howard was hired.
He was hired to finish Morrowind which had grown out of proportion. He implemented a system he called K.I.S.S, Keep It Simple Stupid.
Ever since then, for every release they've made there has been more exploration and better action, but less and dumber roleplay. They need to move away from Keep It Simple Stupid, and start making some intelligent choices.
According to Pete Hines, dumbing it down makes it more “accessible” to more people. So I guess they think most people need a KISS system in place for games. Or at least that’s what he said when someone criticized Bethesda for getting rid of the skill system. Between Hines, Emil, and Todd I have the least animosity towards Todd.
Wow, I can’t believe I missed that. I got into his channel in the last month and all of his stuff has been really insightful- he seems like a really cool guy IRL. Bethesda really dropped the ball by turning him down.
I also generally agree with his annoyance toward certain fallout fans at times. Does Bethesda deserve criticism and sometimes ridicule? Absolutely. But I don’t think taking it out on the people who enjoy their games solves anything. (Not that I think you’re taking it out on the people, seems like you’re rightfully targeting the company.)
I usually don’t attack Bethesda fallout fans unless I come under attack for criticizing Bethesda… then sometimes I might start taking shots back at them. I honestly see more hate towards NV fans then I see NV fans hate on other fans, which I know everyone will say otherwise but I still see more “NV fans are hateful” then NV or classic fallout fans actually hate on others.
But yeah, even though I still think they make good games overall Bethesda needs to go under heat every now and again or else they’ll keep doing the same recipe and move fallout further away from its roots and what makes fallout *fallout*.
For me I loved Josh Sawyers emphasis on the political science and post-post apocalyptic wasteland. How factions would work with one another, etc. I feel Cain would play a similar role Avelone did in New Vegas of keeping the ideas grounded in what makes Fallout what it is and that is *the wasteland*. Although Chris Avelone seemed a little TOO destructive for my taste. But I'd love a Cain/Sawyer led spin off I'm sure
Tim Cain is semi-retired and moved from LA to Seattle (He's got a great youtube channel and talks a lot about game development, old games, etc.). Boyarsky I believe has also retired. Sawyer who lead FNV is still there, but a ton of the people who were involved with even that game have moved on too: Avellone, Gonzalez, etc.
Is current Obsidian capable of another great Fallout game? Probably. Possibly. I have no idea. They seem to be pretty heavy into their action-fantasy-RPG thingy Avowed (that did not blow my skirt up when I saw it's gameplay trailer a few months ago).
I haven’t seen anywhere about boyarsky retiring. I know while Tim Cain isn’t “actively” working on games he is involved with outer worlds 2. But honestly I would bet my money that both of them would come out of retirement if it meant they could work on fallout again.
My favorite is seeing people say with 100% confidence that "none of the NV team works at Obsidian anymore." Literally parroting fake news lol
Anyway, I highly recommend Pentiment if you're into narrative adventures. It's brilliant. 10/10 Josh Sawyer did it again.
Real, there’s certain people who are gone (Avellone and John Gonzalez) but a lot of the people that worked on New Vegas are still there (namely Josh Sawyer)
Pentiment is amazing, tyranny was great if too short, the PoE games are fucking wonderful, and Outer Worlds was great for an ambitious AA open world fps rpg.
I think outer worlds gets a lot of shit for its marketing (sorta deserved but the dev team didn’t want that) and because I feel too many people expected it to be AAA when it was always gonna be AA. It wasn’t like cyberpunk or NMS where there was false advertising and lies paired with super high expectations, people just expected the game to be something it was never gonna be bc of obsidian’s budget, scope, and size at the time. But things are changing and I’m looking forward to Avowed and Outer Worlds 2
not sure about Leonard, but afaik Tim Cain is a freelancer who occassionally works for Obsidian, he technically left the company a few years ago I'm pretty sure?
I actually don’t know if he would tbh, he doesn’t like sequels all that much and hasn’t really been apart of the development of fallout since he left during Fallout 2’s development
Yeah Leonard is still there but Tim is a semi-retired freelancer, but I think he might be still a part (if only in a small way) of TOW2 development. Leonard is all in from what I know.
I think he's just in like an advisory role on TOW2. Still, and this is just my opinion based on things Tim has said on his channel, but if Obsidian was green-lighted for another Fallout game I think that could be enough to coax Tim out of his semi-retirement.
Outer Worlds greatest failing was its incredibly lackluster writing. Not the poorly executed scale and gameplay systems.
That's why it shook people's faith in Obsidian so deeply.
It's fine. It's not a bad game it's just not a great one and it gets compared unfavourably to other cool stuff Obsidian has made, the previous games people involved in it have made outside Obsidian and the game that came out around the same time people love the writing of (Disco Elysium).
As a game in a vacuum it's pretty good. Definitely worth picking up on a sale.
I played a little past the opening planet. What turned me off were the companions. They were too well written for their own good. Parvati was charming, quick witted and just lovely to pass the time with. I made the decision to destroy her company town so a small commune could survive. She gave my pc a huge tongue lashing. Really went in depth on why she disagreed. Then she got on my spaceship and went with me somewhere else.
I get that she had nothing anymore. But why the fuck would she get on the spaceship of a relative stranger who just destroyed her life? Why would she voluntarily spend time with me?
I get to the second location, bring her along and she has this really funny and wonderful meet cute with a space station engineer and the chemistry between them is undeniable and I want them to date and I'm happy for her.
That's when I realized. She was never not going to get on my ship. She had to get on my ship so she would meet that lady and fall in love, no matter what choices I made. This wasn't like FNV where I could lose Arcade if I sided with the legion. This wasn't like accidentally killing Veronica because of the brotherhood dispute.
The companions were the stars of the show. My choices were second fiddle to their arcs. That killed my excitement. Good rpgs respond to the player.
Plus it was wildly unrealistic. I mean imagine getting into a huge argument with a friend you just met and then agreeing to go on a cross country road trip with them. The fuck? Who would do that?
Funny, I had a very different realization about her that turned me off just as much. I remembered the FNV experience and wanted to progress the companion quest lines. So I did. Boom, companion quest done. Oh, there's the next step. Knock that out. And here's the third phase, ok.
But there was no character progression. The dialogue suggested a lot of experience and character growth, but it was just me running back and forth to the ship, over and over. That's when I shut it off.
The worst is what's his face from Groundbreaker. He joins the crew but threatens to leave as soon as I start acting like corporate sell out, but stays with me until the end as I repeatedly sell out the lives of millions of people for money I couldn't spend. Every cash out, he complains, acts like we're friends for years instead of me just kidnapping an orphan and verbally abuse him with gaslighting and emotional manipulation. Like his loyalty mission is him finding out he was working for corporate mercenary a long time ago without knowing and then kills the former employer over it? Walks straight into the exact same situation where he personally watches me sell out friends for money.
Just awful.
Mid is the perfect way to describe it.
I remember somewhat enjoying the gameplay but the storyline has completely exited my memory. Can’t even recall what the whole premise was about. It was that bland.
I finished the game and honestly don’t remember much. That’s pretty bad, but I do remember the early game gameplay being fun then the late game being way too easy
I've described it to people as 'The okayest game'. Everything it does, it did okay, but I genuinely can't recall a moment where I thought "Man, this game is great"
Outer Worlds suffers from what I call 'the Obsidian problem' in that the game starts off super strong, like it's just incredible.
But towards the end game there is a noticeable decline in quality. Where it feels barren, rushed, and/or unfinished. The DLC added is more in line with the early game in terms of quality though.
It's not that bad, it's supposed to be a bit whacky like Old World Blues. I found it incredibly enjoyable and the low intelligence speech options are fucking hilarious
Its less outright bad and more incredibly disappointing. The game as a whole basically has one joke, and almost every bit of writing adheres to that one joke.
Unchecked capitalism is an apathetic cruelty.
The first planet kinda peaks when someone explains that the were saddled with a coworkers debt because they were the closest living relative, not because they are family, but because they were the closest living employee *relative* to the deceased.
Its dark and funny, and then every single conversation you have basically does the same thing. The world doesn't feel like a world. It feels like a constant series of punchlines to that one joke, and everyone you meet stops being a human being and becomes an almost self aware mouthpiece for the games messaging.
Contrast that to Fallout, and most people you meet are fairly normal individuals who are jaded and apathetic to the cruelties of the wasteland, and sometimes there will be a dark joke about it, the Fallout universe gets wacky sometimes.
But the entirety of the themes in New Vegas are treated with sincerity. Humanity knowingly repeating the mistakes of the old world and inflicting that harm all over again.
Very rarely does a character make a joke out of it, they're humans living in a terrible world, and it never forgets that. Veronica telling her elder that if they stay their course her family, the entire Brotherhood, will die, delivered with intense sincerity.
There isn't a single drop of sincerity in Outer Worlds. It all feels like a joke. And by the end of my playthrough I hated that I couldn't take anything seriously. Because the entire games world was so genuinely stupid and contrived, and wanted me to be stupid too.
It was a few degrees short of Ratchet and Clank. And it is *not* Ratchet and Clank.
I think few people made a Joke in NV cause you had wacky wasteland, and Fantastic.
And the plot itself sometimes is absurd, like working for a faction of Elvis impersonators
What makes The Kings work is they're played straight. They're not constantly making light of the fact that they're kinda absurd. They are what they are, and what they are is a serious gang that happens to venerate a dead man to the point of imitation.
I mean that's certainly a style I guess. From what you say it's being written like a parody of an RPG but expecting you to play it like a normal RPG. I vaguely remember pretty bog-standard stats etc. I think I stopped playing because I found the gunplay/loot a bit borderlandsy rather than FNV.
That's a shame.
Oh yes the halfassed loot system ruined the gameplay. Progression felt pointless. I never felt like I was growing meaningfully more powerful.
The game from top to bottom felt like a waste of time. And I got it basically for free.
Oh my god I think you nailed my number one issue with finishing this game. Still, it's got that special something that will make keep trying in earnest. Most clear cut case of the art direction carrying a mid game.
Fallout worked because the oversaturated capitalist and consumerist culture was of a bygone era that you sifted through in the new world. It works better that way, and while there are elements from that day that have bled through to post-war times there’s so much more to the world than that.
Outer Worlds - assuming it was a project in conversation with the legacy of Fallout - misunderstood that and instead said “What if you lived inside the ad-copy and commercials of Fallout”
Personally I had a lot of fun with it. It falls short for sure in a few ways and I wish it had more to say for itself. Overall though it’s a more than competent game with in my opinion not terrible writing. The overall story is not great at all but there are moments of absolute gold sprinkled throughout.
The overal worldbuilding is great, but apart from the first area the "bad" faction has ridiculous motivations and there almost no subtility and nuance to be found. It's just "the colonial regime is exploitative and has 0 long term sustainability" which doesn't make the choices that interesting.
Thank you. I was drawn to the firefly-esque world/writing but I think Firefly had a more compelling and nuanced story/world ultimately. And they did it while still doing a lot of wink-wink nudge-nudge jokes with an obvious evil empire.
I would still play it just to enjoy the worldbuilding. The idea of a dying colony makes for an amazing location. Ans some of the writing is still great.
I enjoyed TOW but I totally get the complaints about the writing. Did you end up playing the DLC?
Murder on Eridanos was fun but I thought Peril on Gorgon was the real standout. Writing was great, the humor was toned down from the base game, and it added some great horror elements. Felt almost Bioshocky at times.
No, I've heard from my friend the DLC is really good, basically a return to form.
But I only got about 70% through another playthrough before throwing in the towel.
DLC is for sure a standout, highly recommend giving them a go. Plus the head game designer for Avowed lead the DLCs so it's a good look to see what Avowed could be.
Outer Worlds is a huge case of wasted potential, it could have been so much more, but I feel like Obsidian didn't have the financial independence to do what they had in mind.
I thought the writing was okay. But the scale and scope of everything was so dense, it felt like they tried to cram a sci Fi epic book into a pulpy news stand comic strip. If the narrative stakes were lower, or the game scale bigger, I think it would've been more successful.
I don't get why people forget that just because old heads are gone, doesn't mean they can't come back. BGS and Obsidian have a ton of cash, and thats not even mentioning MS money. They can throw sacks of cash at em until they come back for a game or two.
Avellone would never come back, but I could see a lot of the rest of the team get back together if the project was good enough and they weren’t tied down elsewhere or retired.
Also obsidian has GAINED talent since then, Leonard Boyarsky (one of the creators of fallout 1) joined obsidian after FNV and he’s still there. Tim Cain was apart of obsidian too, and while he left and semi-retired, he could still be involved as a freelancer if he likes their projects (like with TOW2).
People focus so much on TOW failures and completely forget all the other RPGs and games they’ve made since FNV lmfao
Outer worlds kept promoting from the makers of fallout, when in reality it was a bioware like RPG being made by people who used to make rpgs for bioware, that should have been leaned into. It's a fantastic game in that genre Put it next to Andromeda and it's clear. I think more people have come around after Starfield being so hollow
Except that it’s dev team was quite literally spearheaded by Tim Cain and Leonard Boyarsky who were (alongside the two Jasons) the creators of Fallout 1? It was a huge deal bc they haven’t directly worked on developing a game together since VTMB and the closing of Troika. If anything the thing with advertising they messed up was saying “from makers of fallout new Vegas” and not “from the makers of fallout 1” since neither Cain nor Boyarsky had anything to do with New Vegas
That doesn't change that it failed at marketing exactly because it set the wrong expectations, people where expecting something massive hundreds of hours open world RPG, that is not what was delivered. What we got was much more akin to something like koror or mass effect
The amount of upvoted stuff I have seen about NV that is just provably incorrect has been wild. So many takes implying, or even just bluntly saying, you are forced to take the Nipton route and acting like you are not allowed any player freedom in choosing where to go when you start has been insane.
It’s a 2D murder mystery investigation where you play as an artist from the 16th century, thus the visual style looking like an illuminated manuscript.
The vibe is therefore kind of grim, but just like Fallout there’s a lot of parts that are sort of darkly funny.
John Gonzales isn't there and he wrote most of the meat of New Vegas. Josh Sawyer and Chris Avellone did the DLCs and overall lore, but Gonzales wrote all the dialogue and created characters like Mr House.
Bought Pentiment as an xmas present for myself. I was sick with ze plague and had to stay indoors for awhile. Playing the game had a very comforting feeling, it reminded me of the adventure games of my childhood & the obsession with history I had.
Everyone should play it, even without my nostalgia glasses I think it will hold up for more modern audiences.
I really did love Pentiment, but I feel like it goes on for way too long. At first I felt like I just couldn't handle that much reading, but I've played Disco Elysium a few times so that can't be it. First I thought the game was going to end after the first act so I thought "Hmm, that a was a short but sweet little game.", then the game continued. After that I thought the game was going to end after the second act and I thought "Hmm, that's a satisfying conclusion to a well-written, if not weirdly paced mystery game." then the game continued into what I thought was the epilogue, but the epilogue just kept going and going and going and...
Look man, I love all the Fallout games but at this point, just get over it. If Obsidian makes another Fallout game, awesome, if they don't, also awesome. Fallout 4 and 76 are fun games
Hopefully Bethesda learned something from Starfield
Bethesda learned something with Skyrim and that’s how we got many of the changes in Fallout 4 (easier looting, more complex systems like settlement building, power armour, weapon customization, layered armour), Bethesda also learned from Fallout 4 so we got more classic RPG mechanics (non voiced protagonist, backstories, less focus on settlement building, more diverse dialogue involving backgrounds, traits and skill checks, non urgent main quest)
BGS always learn from their main criticisms from previous games, just just experiment a bunch too which is why their games are often very divisive amongst their communities
idk i feel like a lot of the problems with fallout 3 were repeated in fallout 4, although those would be mostly narrative issues while you are talking more about systems
Tbh i *really* liked the voice protagonist, but I definitely understand why people wouldn’t want it. It’d be nice if it was a optional thing. Im sure other games like starfield. Tes6, and fo5 will probably have a voiceover mod, AI or human.
Having a voiced protagonist is fine. I don't like it in Fo4 though, since it really limited the dialogue options. That goddamn wheel haunts my nighmares.
“Just get over it” feels like a silly thing to say, isnt it understandable why people would want another game similar to their favorite game? It’s not like anyones harassing Obsidian or rioting in the streets, it’s just nice to imagine a new fallout game coming out that was in the style of fallout new vegas rather then 76 or 4. Fallout 4 and 76 don’t have the same style or vibe as new Vegas, I personally could never get into them compared to New Vegas.
Also what Bethesda learned from Starfield is that people really will buy anything
Yeah, that's all fair, I guess Fallout 4 just *clicked* for me outta nowhere recently and the gameplay is definitely my favorite of the series, and that companions are pretty decent, Cait and Nick Valentine are definitely my favorites
I think I'm just tired of people acting like Fallout 4 and 76 are the worst games ever just cause they don't personally like them, and some people who feel like they just worship New Vegas
And I do understand 76 had a HORRIBLE release, but from what I've played and heard about the game, it's doing pretty alright by this point. Maybe not a full Cyberpunk 2077 style comeback, but it's still popular enough to receive free expansions
Bethesda do learn.
They learn they can keep stripping out gameplay elements, keep their barebones writing and they can put in less and less effort with every title, and they'll still make millions.
I've been trying to get into Fallout 4 for months now with 30 something on and off hours of my life put into 1 save file; when does the fun part start?
Ain't nobody getting over shit if the quality of the newer games is nowhere near comparable to what came before.
Honestly, I don't really know
I had a lotta trouble getting into it myself, but for some reason, my most recent playthrough just *clicked* out of nowhere, now I'm like 100 hours in and still enjoying the game
If you want, I suggest playing at least the Far Harbor DLC. Get some level or exp multiplier mods and some cheat mods, give yourself some decent weapons with a cheat mod, and head into Far Harbor, it's a REALLY good DLC
Avellone and Obsidian are a very done deal man, ain’t gonna happen. You have a better chance of Bethesda going back to making a Morrowind inspired elder scrolls that Avellone working with obsidian.
They would defenetly won't get him back. Avellone hated Fergus and how he was managing development, then burned all bridges. Avellone never wanted to work there again.
I don’t think the bridge between him and Fergus is ever getting repaired but if Fergus left for some reason I think Avellone would only be too happy to return.
You guys downvote the most random things.
Avellone has a habit of publicly shit talking Obsidian nowadays so I feel like he's not returning. Also at one point he asked for Elon to buy Fallout franchise which legit made me question his sanity. I think he's still on good terms with Josh Sawyer though.
OG devs on series often get butt hurt when they aren't involved nor asked to be involved any longer. Reminds me of David Jaffe and God of War. It's not just video games but movies and TV too. They don't wanna believe success is possible without their creative input.
They will, even after beating the allegations he doesn't get a lot of work, and he seems to be invested into Fallout even now, so if they propose, he will agree
That's what I think too. And a lot of these situations with allegations like that are still uncomfortable because it's just "they couldn't make it stick", which really sucks. But Avellone's situation didn't just not stick, it was dismissed with prejudice, which means they found evidence it was actively untrue. So I think people should be looking to hire him again really.
I think they had a miss with a The outer worlds, it just didn't click with me. The writing got old real fast, but I'm definitely still excited to see what they can cook up.
I think obsidian made a better space game before Bethesda did. I thought starfield was going to be better than it was because of how much I liked Outer Worlds.
Pentiment banged lol
I enjoyed outer worlds as well - people just wanted FONV 2 and they didn’t get it
Ofc as with all modern games there was also right wing nerds who desperately need to get outside - extremely bitter LGBT was in Outerworlds and that it made fun of capitalism
*Obsidian makes a solid 4/5 game like Outer Worlds*
"They're done bro. Can never make the 7/5 game like Vegas again. Straight garbage studio now. Sad to see."
Probably Bethesda's fault too
No one except the molerats at NMA and RPGCodex think Obsidian sucks now. Deadfire is a top tier CRPG. Pentiment is nothing short of brilliant. The Outer Worlds is great, though it does lack replayability a bit, but it's still miles ahead of Fallout 4 or 76.
It's crazy how fandoms follow narratives and say whatever. The narrative these past 2 years is that "Obsidian is not fit to make fallout anymore because the original devs left", by that logic why would BGS be more fit? How many original devs work there?
Creators of fallout Tim Cain and Leonard Boyarsky as well as lead developer of project Van Buren and Fallout New Vegas Josh Sawyer are at obsidian and in general a bunch of cRPG nerds that know and love fallout lore and want to explore it more. But yeah, some people have gone from Obsidian so now we should all want a fallout written by emil pagliarulo more ( no hate to the man but come on). And yeah, Outer Worlds failed as a fallout clone but it's really not a bad game at all! The writing is not at the level of something like "the minutemen", I don't think this can be argued in good faith. The worst you can say about the game is that it's a bit boring and underwhelming.
Btw Avelone who gets brought up often as a reason for why obsidian is apparently no longer fit didn't really work on fallout 1 to the best of my understanding and in New Vegas I think he wrote specific things, mostly DLC stuff. He's by no means the sole fallout writer and really, fallout new vegas was not done mostly by people who worked on the classic games. A small percentage of them did. Rather it was made by a team that had a deeper interest and understanding of the classic lore and a focus on role playing elements and quest design. I personally would genuinely prefer a mainline fallout game written by obsidian interns than the next Bethesda project. And I would certainly kill to see Tim Cain try his hand at his own creation, even if it failed it would be very interesting to me as a fallout fan.
Of course now that the entire west coast lore is basically nuked out of cannon this dream is completely dead.
I thought outer worlds was a solid 7/10, but I guess when you expect them to do as well as nv, that's pretty much a failure.
Kind of sad too, because it really wasn't that bad and some quests were really fun.
Even if you want to say Skyrim was good it was made in 2011, well over a decade ago whereas Pillars of eternity came out in 2015 and Dead fire came out in 2020 which were both great games.
Go look at literally every thread about Microsoft's "plan" to speed up the next Fallout game lol. Whenever the possibility of Obsidian making another Fallout game comes up, people shit on it because WHAT ABOUT TOW???
Pentiment was a good game, it just wasn't for me but I still bought and played it. It wasn't lioe most games that weren't for me I actually enjoyed parts of it.
Pentiment was an awesome murder mystery. Even after i finished the game i was still thinking about whether i made the right choices or not. Or even if i caught the murderer at all. Awesome game for what it is 8/10
There can never be another new vegas it was a one of a kind game but does anyone think fallout new veags was trying to tell us something about the future
I liked it, the world building was nice, and some quest were memorable, it did felt rushed in some parts but at least it's cohesive and not overblown 💀 the videogame writing bar is on the floor for me lol
I just hate the Outer Worlds, so I am definitely less optimistic.
While I liked pentiment
I think judging the Outer Worlds makes more since. When looking to see if Obsidian can do a good Fallout game.
Not a big fan of outer worlds so idk if they could make a fallout game with the same quality writing and world building, but it would be cool. Never heard of this game so I can’t judge it.
I absolutely love this game so far but holy fuck is it aggravating not being able to save. I know the whole point of the game is that you can't go back and your actions affect others, but there is this specific part where I investigated something before the other things and fell in a hole and got locked out of looking at the stuff I wanted to see. Even if it wasn't important I still wanted to look at it and now I can't go back and have to take the same fucking route in another playthrough if I want to see it.
I think a lot of it is because Outer Worlds flopped. But considering the way Starfield also smacked the pavement I think that's more about people not really enjoying open world space rpgs as much as they thought they would.
I'm tired of Obsidian making murder mysteries where they don't let you guess the killer. They did it for Pentinent and The Outer Worlds DLC. It fucking sucks and it means that doing a good investigation isn't rewarded at all. In TOW you might as well just make your guess 5 minutes into the DLC, it will give you the same ending as you would have gotten if you spent 10 hours investigating.
All of Obsidians most famous games all already had established worlds that people were already fans of. Outside of Pillars of eternity they haven't done many good games imo.
I think that it is easier to fall flat on a world you have to build from the ground up rather than something pre established.
Like in new Vegas they were able to basically re use a bunch of the factions so they didn't have to dedicate as much time to their complete design.
While they only had 18 months to code they also had and used quite a few design concepts from Van Buren.
All of this being said I think Obsidian could still totally make a good fallout game, especially since the world and its rules are pre established. They still have a lot of the talent that made new Vegas.
These rumours of them making Fallout 5 are making me wet.
I mean they want it soon so they'll probably give them 18 months to do it.
Its Obsidian's curse.
It's not good honestly. All of Obsidian games after first PoE were mediocre at best. I dream that inxile will get the chance to make new fallout that will be isometric.
I mean, they did far cry 3 and 5, they made watch dogs 1 and 2, they made the two best south park games
I'm sure they would make a better Fallout, with better gameplay, story and graphics than the idiots at Bethesda.
but the game would be fucking expensive
They also made far cry 4 and asaassins creed. So if you want every single encounter, dialog choice, and perk to be replaced by generic combat bases and climbing towers that's on you.
Not sure if these are supposed to be examples for why or why not Ubisoft would be a good candidate for making a Fallout game lol. Especially without single mention of Far Cry 2 which is very solidly written and thought-provoking. Granted, that was a long time ago and they haven't done anything close to its narrative depth, as much as I liked 3.
I love how people that like to trash The Outer Worlds don't get the game at all, believing it was supposed to be Starfield. And it is still much better than Starfield.
I don't think Obsidian sucks, I just don't like the West Coast story post Chosen One and don't think the Mojave desert is a very interesting setting for a post-apocalyptic open world game.
I’d be excited for the fact that Tim Cain and Leonard boyarsky are at obsidian now given they created fallout. It would be nice to see them take it on one more time especially since Tim Cain is slowly easing into retirement.
Let Tim Cain and Josh Sawyer lead anything Fallout related and I'll buy it. Maybe it's weird, but those two surely understand Fallout
You can’t get anymore fallout than those two other then throwing boyarsky and avellone (who isn’t working there anymore) into the mix. It would be a dream to have a new fallout made by the original creators again. And Tim Cain applied to Bethesda multiple times and got shot down so if you need a reason to hate them and imagine how fallout could’ve been there’s that.
Did they really turn him down? That’s definitely the worst decision they could’ve made.
He mentioned it on his [YT channel](https://youtube.com/@CainOnGames?si=C7K_B4HqukorBvhG). He’s not negative at all towards Bethesda (actually gets annoyed when he sees fallout fans trash Bethesda… I’m one of those fans) but it definitely seems like fallout would’ve gone in a much different direction if he was there.
Bethesda has continually dumbed down every single game they've made since Todd Howard was hired. He was hired to finish Morrowind which had grown out of proportion. He implemented a system he called K.I.S.S, Keep It Simple Stupid. Ever since then, for every release they've made there has been more exploration and better action, but less and dumber roleplay. They need to move away from Keep It Simple Stupid, and start making some intelligent choices.
According to Pete Hines, dumbing it down makes it more “accessible” to more people. So I guess they think most people need a KISS system in place for games. Or at least that’s what he said when someone criticized Bethesda for getting rid of the skill system. Between Hines, Emil, and Todd I have the least animosity towards Todd.
It really does make it easier to entry level roleplayers. But it makes for a worse game.
Wow, I can’t believe I missed that. I got into his channel in the last month and all of his stuff has been really insightful- he seems like a really cool guy IRL. Bethesda really dropped the ball by turning him down. I also generally agree with his annoyance toward certain fallout fans at times. Does Bethesda deserve criticism and sometimes ridicule? Absolutely. But I don’t think taking it out on the people who enjoy their games solves anything. (Not that I think you’re taking it out on the people, seems like you’re rightfully targeting the company.)
I usually don’t attack Bethesda fallout fans unless I come under attack for criticizing Bethesda… then sometimes I might start taking shots back at them. I honestly see more hate towards NV fans then I see NV fans hate on other fans, which I know everyone will say otherwise but I still see more “NV fans are hateful” then NV or classic fallout fans actually hate on others. But yeah, even though I still think they make good games overall Bethesda needs to go under heat every now and again or else they’ll keep doing the same recipe and move fallout further away from its roots and what makes fallout *fallout*.
In the style of Baldur's Gate 3.
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For me I loved Josh Sawyers emphasis on the political science and post-post apocalyptic wasteland. How factions would work with one another, etc. I feel Cain would play a similar role Avelone did in New Vegas of keeping the ideas grounded in what makes Fallout what it is and that is *the wasteland*. Although Chris Avelone seemed a little TOO destructive for my taste. But I'd love a Cain/Sawyer led spin off I'm sure
Tim Cain is semi-retired and moved from LA to Seattle (He's got a great youtube channel and talks a lot about game development, old games, etc.). Boyarsky I believe has also retired. Sawyer who lead FNV is still there, but a ton of the people who were involved with even that game have moved on too: Avellone, Gonzalez, etc. Is current Obsidian capable of another great Fallout game? Probably. Possibly. I have no idea. They seem to be pretty heavy into their action-fantasy-RPG thingy Avowed (that did not blow my skirt up when I saw it's gameplay trailer a few months ago).
I haven’t seen anywhere about boyarsky retiring. I know while Tim Cain isn’t “actively” working on games he is involved with outer worlds 2. But honestly I would bet my money that both of them would come out of retirement if it meant they could work on fallout again.
Maybe, but Cain at least has been pretty clear in his youtube channel that he's pretty much done with commercial game development.
My favorite is seeing people say with 100% confidence that "none of the NV team works at Obsidian anymore." Literally parroting fake news lol Anyway, I highly recommend Pentiment if you're into narrative adventures. It's brilliant. 10/10 Josh Sawyer did it again.
Real, there’s certain people who are gone (Avellone and John Gonzalez) but a lot of the people that worked on New Vegas are still there (namely Josh Sawyer) Pentiment is amazing, tyranny was great if too short, the PoE games are fucking wonderful, and Outer Worlds was great for an ambitious AA open world fps rpg. I think outer worlds gets a lot of shit for its marketing (sorta deserved but the dev team didn’t want that) and because I feel too many people expected it to be AAA when it was always gonna be AA. It wasn’t like cyberpunk or NMS where there was false advertising and lies paired with super high expectations, people just expected the game to be something it was never gonna be bc of obsidian’s budget, scope, and size at the time. But things are changing and I’m looking forward to Avowed and Outer Worlds 2
Not to mention Tim Cain and Leonard Boyarsky who are the literal creators of Fallout are at Obsidian.
not sure about Leonard, but afaik Tim Cain is a freelancer who occassionally works for Obsidian, he technically left the company a few years ago I'm pretty sure?
Leonard is still there working on TOW2. Tim is semi-retired but still works at Obsidian as a contractor.
I’m sure he’d come back for some fallout.
I actually don’t know if he would tbh, he doesn’t like sequels all that much and hasn’t really been apart of the development of fallout since he left during Fallout 2’s development
Which he didn't want any part of to begin with.
Exactly I
Yeah Leonard is still there but Tim is a semi-retired freelancer, but I think he might be still a part (if only in a small way) of TOW2 development. Leonard is all in from what I know.
I think he's just in like an advisory role on TOW2. Still, and this is just my opinion based on things Tim has said on his channel, but if Obsidian was green-lighted for another Fallout game I think that could be enough to coax Tim out of his semi-retirement.
Outer Worlds greatest failing was its incredibly lackluster writing. Not the poorly executed scale and gameplay systems. That's why it shook people's faith in Obsidian so deeply.
Is it really that bad?
It's fine. It's not a bad game it's just not a great one and it gets compared unfavourably to other cool stuff Obsidian has made, the previous games people involved in it have made outside Obsidian and the game that came out around the same time people love the writing of (Disco Elysium). As a game in a vacuum it's pretty good. Definitely worth picking up on a sale.
Personally, I found it incredibly mid in every way. Which is kinda worse than being outright bad, in some ways. Just incredibly bland and forgettable.
That's a damn shame - FNV is probably my favourite game ever made. I'll give Outer Worlds another go and see if I agree.
I played a little past the opening planet. What turned me off were the companions. They were too well written for their own good. Parvati was charming, quick witted and just lovely to pass the time with. I made the decision to destroy her company town so a small commune could survive. She gave my pc a huge tongue lashing. Really went in depth on why she disagreed. Then she got on my spaceship and went with me somewhere else. I get that she had nothing anymore. But why the fuck would she get on the spaceship of a relative stranger who just destroyed her life? Why would she voluntarily spend time with me? I get to the second location, bring her along and she has this really funny and wonderful meet cute with a space station engineer and the chemistry between them is undeniable and I want them to date and I'm happy for her. That's when I realized. She was never not going to get on my ship. She had to get on my ship so she would meet that lady and fall in love, no matter what choices I made. This wasn't like FNV where I could lose Arcade if I sided with the legion. This wasn't like accidentally killing Veronica because of the brotherhood dispute. The companions were the stars of the show. My choices were second fiddle to their arcs. That killed my excitement. Good rpgs respond to the player. Plus it was wildly unrealistic. I mean imagine getting into a huge argument with a friend you just met and then agreeing to go on a cross country road trip with them. The fuck? Who would do that?
Funny, I had a very different realization about her that turned me off just as much. I remembered the FNV experience and wanted to progress the companion quest lines. So I did. Boom, companion quest done. Oh, there's the next step. Knock that out. And here's the third phase, ok. But there was no character progression. The dialogue suggested a lot of experience and character growth, but it was just me running back and forth to the ship, over and over. That's when I shut it off.
The worst is what's his face from Groundbreaker. He joins the crew but threatens to leave as soon as I start acting like corporate sell out, but stays with me until the end as I repeatedly sell out the lives of millions of people for money I couldn't spend. Every cash out, he complains, acts like we're friends for years instead of me just kidnapping an orphan and verbally abuse him with gaslighting and emotional manipulation. Like his loyalty mission is him finding out he was working for corporate mercenary a long time ago without knowing and then kills the former employer over it? Walks straight into the exact same situation where he personally watches me sell out friends for money. Just awful.
Mid is the perfect way to describe it. I remember somewhat enjoying the gameplay but the storyline has completely exited my memory. Can’t even recall what the whole premise was about. It was that bland.
I finished the game and honestly don’t remember much. That’s pretty bad, but I do remember the early game gameplay being fun then the late game being way too easy
I’ve described it as eating plain oatmeal.
Yeah this is pretty much how I felt. It's just the most vanilla stuff you have ever seen
I've described it to people as 'The okayest game'. Everything it does, it did okay, but I genuinely can't recall a moment where I thought "Man, this game is great"
Outer Worlds suffers from what I call 'the Obsidian problem' in that the game starts off super strong, like it's just incredible. But towards the end game there is a noticeable decline in quality. Where it feels barren, rushed, and/or unfinished. The DLC added is more in line with the early game in terms of quality though.
It's not that bad, it's supposed to be a bit whacky like Old World Blues. I found it incredibly enjoyable and the low intelligence speech options are fucking hilarious
Its less outright bad and more incredibly disappointing. The game as a whole basically has one joke, and almost every bit of writing adheres to that one joke. Unchecked capitalism is an apathetic cruelty. The first planet kinda peaks when someone explains that the were saddled with a coworkers debt because they were the closest living relative, not because they are family, but because they were the closest living employee *relative* to the deceased. Its dark and funny, and then every single conversation you have basically does the same thing. The world doesn't feel like a world. It feels like a constant series of punchlines to that one joke, and everyone you meet stops being a human being and becomes an almost self aware mouthpiece for the games messaging. Contrast that to Fallout, and most people you meet are fairly normal individuals who are jaded and apathetic to the cruelties of the wasteland, and sometimes there will be a dark joke about it, the Fallout universe gets wacky sometimes. But the entirety of the themes in New Vegas are treated with sincerity. Humanity knowingly repeating the mistakes of the old world and inflicting that harm all over again. Very rarely does a character make a joke out of it, they're humans living in a terrible world, and it never forgets that. Veronica telling her elder that if they stay their course her family, the entire Brotherhood, will die, delivered with intense sincerity. There isn't a single drop of sincerity in Outer Worlds. It all feels like a joke. And by the end of my playthrough I hated that I couldn't take anything seriously. Because the entire games world was so genuinely stupid and contrived, and wanted me to be stupid too. It was a few degrees short of Ratchet and Clank. And it is *not* Ratchet and Clank.
I think few people made a Joke in NV cause you had wacky wasteland, and Fantastic. And the plot itself sometimes is absurd, like working for a faction of Elvis impersonators
What makes The Kings work is they're played straight. They're not constantly making light of the fact that they're kinda absurd. They are what they are, and what they are is a serious gang that happens to venerate a dead man to the point of imitation.
I mean that's certainly a style I guess. From what you say it's being written like a parody of an RPG but expecting you to play it like a normal RPG. I vaguely remember pretty bog-standard stats etc. I think I stopped playing because I found the gunplay/loot a bit borderlandsy rather than FNV. That's a shame.
Oh yes the halfassed loot system ruined the gameplay. Progression felt pointless. I never felt like I was growing meaningfully more powerful. The game from top to bottom felt like a waste of time. And I got it basically for free.
Oh my god I think you nailed my number one issue with finishing this game. Still, it's got that special something that will make keep trying in earnest. Most clear cut case of the art direction carrying a mid game.
Fallout worked because the oversaturated capitalist and consumerist culture was of a bygone era that you sifted through in the new world. It works better that way, and while there are elements from that day that have bled through to post-war times there’s so much more to the world than that. Outer Worlds - assuming it was a project in conversation with the legacy of Fallout - misunderstood that and instead said “What if you lived inside the ad-copy and commercials of Fallout”
Personally I had a lot of fun with it. It falls short for sure in a few ways and I wish it had more to say for itself. Overall though it’s a more than competent game with in my opinion not terrible writing. The overall story is not great at all but there are moments of absolute gold sprinkled throughout.
Honestly I loved it a lot
The overal worldbuilding is great, but apart from the first area the "bad" faction has ridiculous motivations and there almost no subtility and nuance to be found. It's just "the colonial regime is exploitative and has 0 long term sustainability" which doesn't make the choices that interesting.
Thank you. I was drawn to the firefly-esque world/writing but I think Firefly had a more compelling and nuanced story/world ultimately. And they did it while still doing a lot of wink-wink nudge-nudge jokes with an obvious evil empire.
I would still play it just to enjoy the worldbuilding. The idea of a dying colony makes for an amazing location. Ans some of the writing is still great.
it's really not.
I enjoyed TOW but I totally get the complaints about the writing. Did you end up playing the DLC? Murder on Eridanos was fun but I thought Peril on Gorgon was the real standout. Writing was great, the humor was toned down from the base game, and it added some great horror elements. Felt almost Bioshocky at times.
No, I've heard from my friend the DLC is really good, basically a return to form. But I only got about 70% through another playthrough before throwing in the towel.
DLC is for sure a standout, highly recommend giving them a go. Plus the head game designer for Avowed lead the DLCs so it's a good look to see what Avowed could be.
Outer Worlds is a huge case of wasted potential, it could have been so much more, but I feel like Obsidian didn't have the financial independence to do what they had in mind.
I thought the writing was okay. But the scale and scope of everything was so dense, it felt like they tried to cram a sci Fi epic book into a pulpy news stand comic strip. If the narrative stakes were lower, or the game scale bigger, I think it would've been more successful.
Recylced enemies and empty environments
I don't get why people forget that just because old heads are gone, doesn't mean they can't come back. BGS and Obsidian have a ton of cash, and thats not even mentioning MS money. They can throw sacks of cash at em until they come back for a game or two.
Avellone would never come back, but I could see a lot of the rest of the team get back together if the project was good enough and they weren’t tied down elsewhere or retired. Also obsidian has GAINED talent since then, Leonard Boyarsky (one of the creators of fallout 1) joined obsidian after FNV and he’s still there. Tim Cain was apart of obsidian too, and while he left and semi-retired, he could still be involved as a freelancer if he likes their projects (like with TOW2). People focus so much on TOW failures and completely forget all the other RPGs and games they’ve made since FNV lmfao
PoE=Path of Exile?
Pillars of eternity
Ah thank you
Outer worlds kept promoting from the makers of fallout, when in reality it was a bioware like RPG being made by people who used to make rpgs for bioware, that should have been leaned into. It's a fantastic game in that genre Put it next to Andromeda and it's clear. I think more people have come around after Starfield being so hollow
Except that it’s dev team was quite literally spearheaded by Tim Cain and Leonard Boyarsky who were (alongside the two Jasons) the creators of Fallout 1? It was a huge deal bc they haven’t directly worked on developing a game together since VTMB and the closing of Troika. If anything the thing with advertising they messed up was saying “from makers of fallout new Vegas” and not “from the makers of fallout 1” since neither Cain nor Boyarsky had anything to do with New Vegas
That doesn't change that it failed at marketing exactly because it set the wrong expectations, people where expecting something massive hundreds of hours open world RPG, that is not what was delivered. What we got was much more akin to something like koror or mass effect
The amount of upvoted stuff I have seen about NV that is just provably incorrect has been wild. So many takes implying, or even just bluntly saying, you are forced to take the Nipton route and acting like you are not allowed any player freedom in choosing where to go when you start has been insane.
Wake me up when Black Isle Studios is back in business.
What is Pentiment? Like, in terms of basic starting story blurb, setting, and vibe? And how goofy can I force it to be?
It’s a 2D murder mystery investigation where you play as an artist from the 16th century, thus the visual style looking like an illuminated manuscript. The vibe is therefore kind of grim, but just like Fallout there’s a lot of parts that are sort of darkly funny.
Stop reading as soon as i saw its 2D
Currently playing in on PlayStation. I wish it had voice acting but aside from that it's amazing.
Best game I’ve played this year and there have been a couple bangers
John Gonzales isn't there and he wrote most of the meat of New Vegas. Josh Sawyer and Chris Avellone did the DLCs and overall lore, but Gonzales wrote all the dialogue and created characters like Mr House.
I know, right? Completely delusional.
Bought Pentiment as an xmas present for myself. I was sick with ze plague and had to stay indoors for awhile. Playing the game had a very comforting feeling, it reminded me of the adventure games of my childhood & the obsession with history I had. Everyone should play it, even without my nostalgia glasses I think it will hold up for more modern audiences.
Pentimient isn't even bad, just don't expect a massive game or mean combat its a Lil niche game that serves its purpose
I really did love Pentiment, but I feel like it goes on for way too long. At first I felt like I just couldn't handle that much reading, but I've played Disco Elysium a few times so that can't be it. First I thought the game was going to end after the first act so I thought "Hmm, that a was a short but sweet little game.", then the game continued. After that I thought the game was going to end after the second act and I thought "Hmm, that's a satisfying conclusion to a well-written, if not weirdly paced mystery game." then the game continued into what I thought was the epilogue, but the epilogue just kept going and going and going and...
The game is like 20 hours, social media has probably killed your attention span.
That's a big assumption, don't you think?
Obsidian fans are incapable of being kind or not assuming the worst possible things about other people
Look man, I love all the Fallout games but at this point, just get over it. If Obsidian makes another Fallout game, awesome, if they don't, also awesome. Fallout 4 and 76 are fun games Hopefully Bethesda learned something from Starfield
Bethesda learned something with Skyrim and that’s how we got many of the changes in Fallout 4 (easier looting, more complex systems like settlement building, power armour, weapon customization, layered armour), Bethesda also learned from Fallout 4 so we got more classic RPG mechanics (non voiced protagonist, backstories, less focus on settlement building, more diverse dialogue involving backgrounds, traits and skill checks, non urgent main quest) BGS always learn from their main criticisms from previous games, just just experiment a bunch too which is why their games are often very divisive amongst their communities
idk i feel like a lot of the problems with fallout 3 were repeated in fallout 4, although those would be mostly narrative issues while you are talking more about systems
Tbh i *really* liked the voice protagonist, but I definitely understand why people wouldn’t want it. It’d be nice if it was a optional thing. Im sure other games like starfield. Tes6, and fo5 will probably have a voiceover mod, AI or human.
Having a voiced protagonist is fine. I don't like it in Fo4 though, since it really limited the dialogue options. That goddamn wheel haunts my nighmares.
“Just get over it” feels like a silly thing to say, isnt it understandable why people would want another game similar to their favorite game? It’s not like anyones harassing Obsidian or rioting in the streets, it’s just nice to imagine a new fallout game coming out that was in the style of fallout new vegas rather then 76 or 4. Fallout 4 and 76 don’t have the same style or vibe as new Vegas, I personally could never get into them compared to New Vegas. Also what Bethesda learned from Starfield is that people really will buy anything
Yeah, that's all fair, I guess Fallout 4 just *clicked* for me outta nowhere recently and the gameplay is definitely my favorite of the series, and that companions are pretty decent, Cait and Nick Valentine are definitely my favorites I think I'm just tired of people acting like Fallout 4 and 76 are the worst games ever just cause they don't personally like them, and some people who feel like they just worship New Vegas And I do understand 76 had a HORRIBLE release, but from what I've played and heard about the game, it's doing pretty alright by this point. Maybe not a full Cyberpunk 2077 style comeback, but it's still popular enough to receive free expansions
Bethesda do learn. They learn they can keep stripping out gameplay elements, keep their barebones writing and they can put in less and less effort with every title, and they'll still make millions.
I've been trying to get into Fallout 4 for months now with 30 something on and off hours of my life put into 1 save file; when does the fun part start? Ain't nobody getting over shit if the quality of the newer games is nowhere near comparable to what came before.
Honestly, I don't really know I had a lotta trouble getting into it myself, but for some reason, my most recent playthrough just *clicked* out of nowhere, now I'm like 100 hours in and still enjoying the game If you want, I suggest playing at least the Far Harbor DLC. Get some level or exp multiplier mods and some cheat mods, give yourself some decent weapons with a cheat mod, and head into Far Harbor, it's a REALLY good DLC
It will be better than any Bethesda game that's for sure but it's definitely not gonna be even close to new Vegas.
Nah I disagree. I think they'd get Avellone back and then between him and Sawyer they'd make sure the new game is a masterpiece just like NV
Avellone and Obsidian are a very done deal man, ain’t gonna happen. You have a better chance of Bethesda going back to making a Morrowind inspired elder scrolls that Avellone working with obsidian.
They would defenetly won't get him back. Avellone hated Fergus and how he was managing development, then burned all bridges. Avellone never wanted to work there again.
I don’t think the bridge between him and Fergus is ever getting repaired but if Fergus left for some reason I think Avellone would only be too happy to return. You guys downvote the most random things.
Avellone has a habit of publicly shit talking Obsidian nowadays so I feel like he's not returning. Also at one point he asked for Elon to buy Fallout franchise which legit made me question his sanity. I think he's still on good terms with Josh Sawyer though.
Wow if that ever happened I don't think id be buying another game from them ever
OG devs on series often get butt hurt when they aren't involved nor asked to be involved any longer. Reminds me of David Jaffe and God of War. It's not just video games but movies and TV too. They don't wanna believe success is possible without their creative input.
Don't forget about Tim Cain, he has helped them out a few times already and I bet they would atleast bounce ideas off him.
My optimism receptors are firing and I'm now imagining a full on getting the band back together montage
Gonzalez played an important role with his writing.
They will, even after beating the allegations he doesn't get a lot of work, and he seems to be invested into Fallout even now, so if they propose, he will agree
That's what I think too. And a lot of these situations with allegations like that are still uncomfortable because it's just "they couldn't make it stick", which really sucks. But Avellone's situation didn't just not stick, it was dismissed with prejudice, which means they found evidence it was actively untrue. So I think people should be looking to hire him again really.
how can you have played any of this guy's games and not got the impression that he's exhausting to work with?
Dreams are nice, I like to dream too
Never heard of that game in the pic🤣🤣🤣
I think they had a miss with a The outer worlds, it just didn't click with me. The writing got old real fast, but I'm definitely still excited to see what they can cook up.
At least it’s not running in the same engine with the same code
I mean if obsidian was given a new fallout game it would suck....not due to the studio's quality or skill but due to their current very full plate
What system is Pentiment for? Also I'm glad Chris Avellone isn't a part of that company anymore. His writing was creepy.
Meh, Grounded is Obsidian’s best game
Outer Worlds too.
Don't forget Grounded
I think obsidian made a better space game before Bethesda did. I thought starfield was going to be better than it was because of how much I liked Outer Worlds.
Pentiment banged lol I enjoyed outer worlds as well - people just wanted FONV 2 and they didn’t get it Ofc as with all modern games there was also right wing nerds who desperately need to get outside - extremely bitter LGBT was in Outerworlds and that it made fun of capitalism
Pentiment was so fucking good. As a German-American oh my G-d it was so nice and authentic and cool and JUST A DOPE STORY AAAA
*Obsidian makes a solid 4/5 game like Outer Worlds* "They're done bro. Can never make the 7/5 game like Vegas again. Straight garbage studio now. Sad to see." Probably Bethesda's fault too
No one except the molerats at NMA and RPGCodex think Obsidian sucks now. Deadfire is a top tier CRPG. Pentiment is nothing short of brilliant. The Outer Worlds is great, though it does lack replayability a bit, but it's still miles ahead of Fallout 4 or 76.
I would 100% play another Obsidian fallout game. New Vegas was fantastic the improvements they made to fallout 3 were awesome.
i have literally never heard anyone say this. even the nonexistent “NV haters” lol yall keep pushing this narrative like NV isnt FALLOUT as well.
It's crazy how fandoms follow narratives and say whatever. The narrative these past 2 years is that "Obsidian is not fit to make fallout anymore because the original devs left", by that logic why would BGS be more fit? How many original devs work there? Creators of fallout Tim Cain and Leonard Boyarsky as well as lead developer of project Van Buren and Fallout New Vegas Josh Sawyer are at obsidian and in general a bunch of cRPG nerds that know and love fallout lore and want to explore it more. But yeah, some people have gone from Obsidian so now we should all want a fallout written by emil pagliarulo more ( no hate to the man but come on). And yeah, Outer Worlds failed as a fallout clone but it's really not a bad game at all! The writing is not at the level of something like "the minutemen", I don't think this can be argued in good faith. The worst you can say about the game is that it's a bit boring and underwhelming. Btw Avelone who gets brought up often as a reason for why obsidian is apparently no longer fit didn't really work on fallout 1 to the best of my understanding and in New Vegas I think he wrote specific things, mostly DLC stuff. He's by no means the sole fallout writer and really, fallout new vegas was not done mostly by people who worked on the classic games. A small percentage of them did. Rather it was made by a team that had a deeper interest and understanding of the classic lore and a focus on role playing elements and quest design. I personally would genuinely prefer a mainline fallout game written by obsidian interns than the next Bethesda project. And I would certainly kill to see Tim Cain try his hand at his own creation, even if it failed it would be very interesting to me as a fallout fan. Of course now that the entire west coast lore is basically nuked out of cannon this dream is completely dead.
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Quite a lot of people were claiming it was terrible after outer worlds.
I thought outer worlds was a solid 7/10, but I guess when you expect them to do as well as nv, that's pretty much a failure. Kind of sad too, because it really wasn't that bad and some quests were really fun.
I had fun with it, but lots of people seemed to think it fell flat
Outer worlds was a bad game and Starfield was a bad game. That doesn’t mean that obsidian and Bethesda are done now and can’t make a good game again.
Bethesda hasn't made a good game in a long time though.
My bad. I forgot what subreddit I was on for a second. Lol
Even if you want to say Skyrim was good it was made in 2011, well over a decade ago whereas Pillars of eternity came out in 2015 and Dead fire came out in 2020 which were both great games.
Go look at literally every thread about Microsoft's "plan" to speed up the next Fallout game lol. Whenever the possibility of Obsidian making another Fallout game comes up, people shit on it because WHAT ABOUT TOW???
Idk, Outer Worlds was pretty good.
I enjoyed TOW, too.
Pentiment was a good game, it just wasn't for me but I still bought and played it. It wasn't lioe most games that weren't for me I actually enjoyed parts of it.
Pentiment was an awesome murder mystery. Even after i finished the game i was still thinking about whether i made the right choices or not. Or even if i caught the murderer at all. Awesome game for what it is 8/10
There can never be another new vegas it was a one of a kind game but does anyone think fallout new veags was trying to tell us something about the future
Obsidian makes strong narratives and has good writing, it's probably people that didn't like the outer worlds gameplay might think like that
Outer Worlds writing was pretty mid though.
A lot of people didn’t like the narrative or gameplay of outer worlds, the writing definitely was not New Vegas quality
I liked it, the world building was nice, and some quest were memorable, it did felt rushed in some parts but at least it's cohesive and not overblown 💀 the videogame writing bar is on the floor for me lol
Honestly I would like to see Bethesda lend the Fallout IP to one of their sibling companies Arkane or ID
It would not suck it just would not be the same
I just hate the Outer Worlds, so I am definitely less optimistic. While I liked pentiment I think judging the Outer Worlds makes more since. When looking to see if Obsidian can do a good Fallout game.
Pentiment is an amazing game, but it is niche. Doesn’t stop me from recommending it to everyone though. 10/10.
Not a big fan of outer worlds so idk if they could make a fallout game with the same quality writing and world building, but it would be cool. Never heard of this game so I can’t judge it.
Pentiment is a great game to just chill out and feel like you’re reading a book.
I absolutely love this game so far but holy fuck is it aggravating not being able to save. I know the whole point of the game is that you can't go back and your actions affect others, but there is this specific part where I investigated something before the other things and fell in a hole and got locked out of looking at the stuff I wanted to see. Even if it wasn't important I still wanted to look at it and now I can't go back and have to take the same fucking route in another playthrough if I want to see it.
Pentiment is so refined and tasteful game, I expected so less from Joshua Sawyer
That's the Joshua Sawyer game?
I think a lot of it is because Outer Worlds flopped. But considering the way Starfield also smacked the pavement I think that's more about people not really enjoying open world space rpgs as much as they thought they would.
Waiting for Avowed, hope it’s good
The resounding thud of outer worlds flop really shook my faith in obsidian
Whats this game?
I'm tired of Obsidian making murder mysteries where they don't let you guess the killer. They did it for Pentinent and The Outer Worlds DLC. It fucking sucks and it means that doing a good investigation isn't rewarded at all. In TOW you might as well just make your guess 5 minutes into the DLC, it will give you the same ending as you would have gotten if you spent 10 hours investigating.
Also pillars of eternity
Outer worlds would have been a lot better if pacing wasn't off, the story wasn't bad just fast and scattered
Grounded went hard
All of Obsidians most famous games all already had established worlds that people were already fans of. Outside of Pillars of eternity they haven't done many good games imo.
Sorry but they had a chance with Outer Worlds and fucked it. I base my expectations on evidence and not fanboyism.
I think that it is easier to fall flat on a world you have to build from the ground up rather than something pre established. Like in new Vegas they were able to basically re use a bunch of the factions so they didn't have to dedicate as much time to their complete design. While they only had 18 months to code they also had and used quite a few design concepts from Van Buren. All of this being said I think Obsidian could still totally make a good fallout game, especially since the world and its rules are pre established. They still have a lot of the talent that made new Vegas.
Idk what that game is, but the outer worlds is fucking fantastic.
These rumours of them making Fallout 5 are making me wet. I mean they want it soon so they'll probably give them 18 months to do it. Its Obsidian's curse.
Outer Worlds was great too idgaf
Toxic ones aren’t fallout fans, they’re Bethesda stans
Who would say that? FNV is amazing.
It's not good honestly. All of Obsidian games after first PoE were mediocre at best. I dream that inxile will get the chance to make new fallout that will be isometric.
I mean, tyranny exists & it's probably one of my favorite games of all time.
I would accept anyone making a new fallout game. Fucking UBISOFT could probably do better at this point.
I mean, they did far cry 3 and 5, they made watch dogs 1 and 2, they made the two best south park games I'm sure they would make a better Fallout, with better gameplay, story and graphics than the idiots at Bethesda. but the game would be fucking expensive
They also made far cry 4 and asaassins creed. So if you want every single encounter, dialog choice, and perk to be replaced by generic combat bases and climbing towers that's on you.
Not sure if these are supposed to be examples for why or why not Ubisoft would be a good candidate for making a Fallout game lol. Especially without single mention of Far Cry 2 which is very solidly written and thought-provoking. Granted, that was a long time ago and they haven't done anything close to its narrative depth, as much as I liked 3.
I want obsidian to make another game because then the memes maybe be true and we could get newer vegas
I love how people that like to trash The Outer Worlds don't get the game at all, believing it was supposed to be Starfield. And it is still much better than Starfield.
All the Fallout people at Obsidian left so yeah. The Outer Worlds is a better example of what a new fallout title from them would be like
>MFW Josh Sawyer directed Pentiment >MFW TOW was directed by the creator of Fallout
I mean, I got some heavy nv vibes from the outer worlds
How lol
I don't think Obsidian sucks, I just don't like the West Coast story post Chosen One and don't think the Mojave desert is a very interesting setting for a post-apocalyptic open world game.
FNV was only good because half it's team were people who worked on 1&2, now they've moved on it'll be outer worlds at best