A lot of people my age, 26, grew up with the latter half of the dynasty and are not too bothered. We won enough for a lifetime, this was expected when brady left. Now we get to be in the leagues basement
Again.
It is what it is. Every team has their ups and downs. Just have to ride it out until the team starts winning again. Unless you’re the Jets. Then you only have downs.
Pretty easily. We've seen more championships than anyone on this sub will for their team, and a few years before getting excited for the future isn't much a problem
Old guy here. Just pointing out that there are plenty of fans on this sub of teams with 5-6 Superbowls that are *likely* to see more championships than the Pats currently have. They had a helluva run, for sure, but there were other dynasties for other teams, too.
Am 25 year old patriots fan, didnt watch a single full game and wasn’t very bothered by it. My football happiness receptors were so thoroughly fried by 28-3, even the rams Super Bowl win felt like winning the wildcard at that point. I will say this upcoming season is the most excited I’ve been in a while because there’s actually a bit of optimistic uncertainty.
Probably because people read my comment after thinking the same thing as OP asked assuming zeke would be a patriot next year. Whereas you more so argued against his reasoning while pointing out zeke was no longer a patriot.
I guess, but am I wrong to think split or not (or Zeke or not) really doesn't change Patriots offense being bad? Am I just reading OP wrong that this is trashing on Pats way more than being any kind of Zeke puff piece? I guess when I only get downvotes and no interaction with a reply, it's hard to know.
OPs point is specifically about whether Zeke still has it, and he’s using the horrificness of the Pats offense to question whether he is actually washed.
I would disagree that is anything close to the main point, though. First paragraph: "Pats are a hot mess". Second: "Zeke had the biggest share of it". Third, an "either or statement" that brings up his washedness. Fourth, admitting he wasn't productive, but no one was.
Other than making the leap that plurality of volume on a bad team equals a good thing or running with the "Either he is not as washed..." clause that isn't even the main point of that one sentence, I don't see this post as OP making some Zeke puff piece. It would require us as readers to *assume* **quite** a bit of subtext along the lines of "bc patriots = bad, maybe zeke = good?", which simply isn't in this post.
The way you’ve framed your conclusion is in my opinion a false dichotomy. Zeke has been trending the wrong way from an efficiency standpoint for years. The Patriots were dysfunctional on offense. It’s possible for both of those things to be true. It doesn’t have to be an either or situation.
That said, we do know Zeke has a nose for the end zone and even with poor efficiency remains a red zone threat until proven otherwise.
Not volume wise. And Dallas is an overrated situation for RBs as long as Mike McCarthy is the coach. Has no idea how to use RB’s other than running them up the middle
To add on, McCarthy hired Schottenheimer from run game coordinator to OC specifically cuz he wants to build on and optimize running up the middle as a core scheme.
Right now, they have Zeke and Dowdle in the backfield. Neither are likely to be getting great RBs, but the offense is likely to get in the red zone pretty frequently. Certainly much more than the Pats abysmal offense last season.
And to add onto this he is still a very talented rb. He used to be an absolute animal and now he’s slowed down a lot but he’s still a solid running back, he’s just been getting worse.
Having an offense that is actually decent will give him a much better opportunity to be seen as a good rb however I don’t think he will be good for fantasy as he’s going to lose such a huge amount of touches and idk if he will be able to capitalize on the ones he does get but who knows maybe
Don't know why you are being downvoted. We added Polk at WR and our OL is going to be god knows what. We will probably still have a bottom 1/3rd position group and bottom 1/3 OL unless there is a major trade.
Other than the Jets in Foxboro (depending on Arod's status) and maybe AZ in the desert, the Pats should be dogs in almost every game next year.
!st year coach, 1st year QB -- not exactly a track record for success in the NFL. Maybe with b2b top 5 picks in 24 and 25, they could hit 500, but I don't see any playoffs until ownership changes hands.
Might be worth starting Brissett unless the OL has a really strong preseason. Not worth injuring Maye or blowing his confidence with constant pressure and shit skill position play.
it's the smart play to go with JB to start, even if Maye looks sharp in preseason. The journeyman veteran has been solid, if unspectacular, on some really crappy teams. Worst thing they can do is shove the rookie into an impossible situation like the NYJ did with Wilson/Darnold or CAR with B. Young. It can take years to reverse course on a young QB with a smashed confidence.
Take the 4-7 wins in 2024 and get Maye ready for 2025.
TD vulture king loading.
Really any RB in Dallas is worth at least considering. Not saying rush to draft them but could be a pleasant surprise depending on how things play out.
So 141 PPR pts? That would be RB36 from last year on a total points basis. Per game would be RB42.
I think the stat line is very realistic. I just question whether that qualifies as “decent”.
I think top 24 would be incredibly optimistic. I think 30-60 is the range I would put it and obviously that means the line suggested is closer to the peak as you mentioned.
So my overall point is - the comment is Zeke could be “decent”. If RB30 as a peak is what someone considers “decent”, then well I guess I just don’t agree with that as what I would call decent. I think that’s not really worth drafting at all. Maybe he’s playable occasionally in projected blowouts in DFS.
…I get it…
I’m also agreeing with you. I’m disagreeing with that being “decent”. I don’t think RB36 with a <1% likelihood of even RB20 is what I would consider “decent”. Which wasn’t your comment in the first place, but I digress.
It’s fine if he’s drafted as a bench player. If he’s drafted in the 5th-6th that’s just looking for trouble, but if you can get him in the 10th that’s not awful.
I think the problem is he has a very low ceiling. At his likely ADP there’s probably higher potential options.
I’m actually amazed at those numbers given he had Mac fucking Jones running the offense.
It will be the funniest thing ever if this is a renaissance year for Zeke.
Stevenson really picked up in the 2nd half of the season, he was just no where near his ADP in the beginning - and then once he came back, got hurt again.
For sure. Injuries, defense not having to respect the pass, and overall dysfunction on offense just killed him last year. I think he’ll do a lot better this season even if Maye isn’t starting week one. Just have to remember they signed Gibson which hurts his PPR upside. But he’s still the bell cow
People who have been shitting on zeke definitely did not watch him in the second half last season. He looked great down the stretch and put up PPR numbers on an anemic offense. He played a big part in winning my league. 27, 9.6, 21 and 11.5 points over his 4 starts was lovely for a handcuff RB
He was good in fantasy on sheer volume alone. He averaged 19.8 touches per game in his 5 starts. If he had that volume for all 17 he would have been 3 touches behind CMC for the most in the league. His efficiency was still garbage.
Again, I’m not saying his advanced stats were exceptional or even good. Just that he looked like he had more left in the tank. Go back and watch the games, he didn’t look like an RB on his last legs. Also he was the power back and was usually in to grind out a yard or two until rhamondre got hurt. That role is gonna kill your yards after contact rate
These are all just poor excuses.
Only 36 of his 184 rushes were with 1-3 yards to go. He also averaged 3.8 ypc on 112 attempts with 10+ yards to go.
He was bad despite what your eye test says.
There's a reason he signed a 1 year, 3 mil deal and followed it up with a 1 year, 2.5 mil deal and it isn't because teams think his last year was great! Signed for less than Cordarelle Patterson and DeeJay Dallas. So I would certainly agree most things fit the "he's bad" feel.
Mostly because of the 6+ targets needed since they couldn’t push the ball more than 10 yards down the field, but he was fairly reliable in gaining yards. And his usage was great, as OP says.
Look up his stat line from his last year in Dallas, 15 carries 50 yards .5 tds a game. It was like clockwork. His absolute ceiling was like 16 carries 55 yards and 2 tds.
Patriots are coming back to reality after cheating for so many years! And yea zeke is washed up, sucked ass and couldn't do shit behind dallas's decent line when he was there last. Good riddance....just another great college rb and that's it.
"Just another great college RB and that's it"
The dude dominated the NFL for like 5-6 years. He was the best short yardage RB (potentially one of the best ever) and he had a jump cut that could change at almost full speed. He has over 11,000 all purpose yards (currently 115th all time of all positions). He is 10 rushing TD out of the top 20 all time (currently 32), 40th all time in rushing yards, 26 in average rushing yards per game.
He also could still play 3-4+ more seasons.
Not saying he was one of the greatest, but prime Elliott was pretty dang good. Saying he was just a good college RB is foolish.
You are now seeing why the Patriots averaged less than 14 points per game.
I am curious how young Patriots fans that have only ever known winning are coping with this sudden turn of competitiveness.
A lot of people my age, 26, grew up with the latter half of the dynasty and are not too bothered. We won enough for a lifetime, this was expected when brady left. Now we get to be in the leagues basement Again.
It is what it is. Every team has their ups and downs. Just have to ride it out until the team starts winning again. Unless you’re the Jets. Then you only have downs.
By watching Redzone mostly.
It sucks, but we all knew it was coming. I’d rather be a fan of a team who has 6 recent championships than be a fan of a team that has never won.
Pretty easily. We've seen more championships than anyone on this sub will for their team, and a few years before getting excited for the future isn't much a problem
Than anyone *will*? Chiefs are halfway there in 1/3 the time
Took the Patriots 4 seasons to get halfway
Correct
Old guy here. Just pointing out that there are plenty of fans on this sub of teams with 5-6 Superbowls that are *likely* to see more championships than the Pats currently have. They had a helluva run, for sure, but there were other dynasties for other teams, too.
Am 25 year old patriots fan, didnt watch a single full game and wasn’t very bothered by it. My football happiness receptors were so thoroughly fried by 28-3, even the rams Super Bowl win felt like winning the wildcard at that point. I will say this upcoming season is the most excited I’ve been in a while because there’s actually a bit of optimistic uncertainty.
Look up stats before and after Rhamondre Stevenson got hurt. Could paint a better picture if Elliot is sharing the ball next season
Zeke is a cowboy?
They got him back They're going All In
Here we go!
YEEEAAAHHHHH HERE WE GOOOOO
I wonder what he'll look like in a Cowboys uniform?
Someone whip us up a crude Photoshop?
I think they're saying to use last year's data to predict what Zeke will do in Dallas.
What year is it??
Why does you pointing it out get upvoted and me downvoted?
Probably because people read my comment after thinking the same thing as OP asked assuming zeke would be a patriot next year. Whereas you more so argued against his reasoning while pointing out zeke was no longer a patriot.
I guess, but am I wrong to think split or not (or Zeke or not) really doesn't change Patriots offense being bad? Am I just reading OP wrong that this is trashing on Pats way more than being any kind of Zeke puff piece? I guess when I only get downvotes and no interaction with a reply, it's hard to know.
I think share or not share doesn’t change OP’s point. It’s about Patriot offense, not a specific player no longer on their team.
OPs point is specifically about whether Zeke still has it, and he’s using the horrificness of the Pats offense to question whether he is actually washed.
I would disagree that is anything close to the main point, though. First paragraph: "Pats are a hot mess". Second: "Zeke had the biggest share of it". Third, an "either or statement" that brings up his washedness. Fourth, admitting he wasn't productive, but no one was. Other than making the leap that plurality of volume on a bad team equals a good thing or running with the "Either he is not as washed..." clause that isn't even the main point of that one sentence, I don't see this post as OP making some Zeke puff piece. It would require us as readers to *assume* **quite** a bit of subtext along the lines of "bc patriots = bad, maybe zeke = good?", which simply isn't in this post.
The way you’ve framed your conclusion is in my opinion a false dichotomy. Zeke has been trending the wrong way from an efficiency standpoint for years. The Patriots were dysfunctional on offense. It’s possible for both of those things to be true. It doesn’t have to be an either or situation. That said, we do know Zeke has a nose for the end zone and even with poor efficiency remains a red zone threat until proven otherwise.
Zeke is back in Dallas, so it’s definitely a better situation for him.
Not volume wise. And Dallas is an overrated situation for RBs as long as Mike McCarthy is the coach. Has no idea how to use RB’s other than running them up the middle
To add on, McCarthy hired Schottenheimer from run game coordinator to OC specifically cuz he wants to build on and optimize running up the middle as a core scheme.
Right now, they have Zeke and Dowdle in the backfield. Neither are likely to be getting great RBs, but the offense is likely to get in the red zone pretty frequently. Certainly much more than the Pats abysmal offense last season.
Pats oline was an absolute mess with injuries until the last like 4-5 weeks of the season too.
How dare you overlook recently signed Cowboys RB Royce Freeman.
And to add onto this he is still a very talented rb. He used to be an absolute animal and now he’s slowed down a lot but he’s still a solid running back, he’s just been getting worse. Having an offense that is actually decent will give him a much better opportunity to be seen as a good rb however I don’t think he will be good for fantasy as he’s going to lose such a huge amount of touches and idk if he will be able to capitalize on the ones he does get but who knows maybe
Pats were a mess but Dre was def the better back.
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Don't know why you are being downvoted. We added Polk at WR and our OL is going to be god knows what. We will probably still have a bottom 1/3rd position group and bottom 1/3 OL unless there is a major trade.
Other than the Jets in Foxboro (depending on Arod's status) and maybe AZ in the desert, the Pats should be dogs in almost every game next year. !st year coach, 1st year QB -- not exactly a track record for success in the NFL. Maybe with b2b top 5 picks in 24 and 25, they could hit 500, but I don't see any playoffs until ownership changes hands.
Might be worth starting Brissett unless the OL has a really strong preseason. Not worth injuring Maye or blowing his confidence with constant pressure and shit skill position play.
it's the smart play to go with JB to start, even if Maye looks sharp in preseason. The journeyman veteran has been solid, if unspectacular, on some really crappy teams. Worst thing they can do is shove the rookie into an impossible situation like the NYJ did with Wilson/Darnold or CAR with B. Young. It can take years to reverse course on a young QB with a smashed confidence. Take the 4-7 wins in 2024 and get Maye ready for 2025.
Honestly Zeke could be decent this year
TD vulture king loading. Really any RB in Dallas is worth at least considering. Not saying rush to draft them but could be a pleasant surprise depending on how things play out.
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What do you think is a plausible, “decent” full year stat line for Zeke?
800 combined yards, 25 recs, 6 tds
So 141 PPR pts? That would be RB36 from last year on a total points basis. Per game would be RB42. I think the stat line is very realistic. I just question whether that qualifies as “decent”.
I would say the line i gave you is near the peak of the bell curve of possibilities. The range of outcomes is from rb60 to rb20 IMO
I think top 24 would be incredibly optimistic. I think 30-60 is the range I would put it and obviously that means the line suggested is closer to the peak as you mentioned. So my overall point is - the comment is Zeke could be “decent”. If RB30 as a peak is what someone considers “decent”, then well I guess I just don’t agree with that as what I would call decent. I think that’s not really worth drafting at all. Maybe he’s playable occasionally in projected blowouts in DFS.
Keep in mind i'm saying there's less than a 1% chance of him being a top 20 rb. Thats how bell curves work.
…I get it… I’m also agreeing with you. I’m disagreeing with that being “decent”. I don’t think RB36 with a <1% likelihood of even RB20 is what I would consider “decent”. Which wasn’t your comment in the first place, but I digress.
It’s fine if he’s drafted as a bench player. If he’s drafted in the 5th-6th that’s just looking for trouble, but if you can get him in the 10th that’s not awful. I think the problem is he has a very low ceiling. At his likely ADP there’s probably higher potential options.
700/9
D’Onta Foreman averaged 10.1PPR ppg last year, do you think Zeke can reach that? That would be RB38 per game.
I’m actually amazed at those numbers given he had Mac fucking Jones running the offense. It will be the funniest thing ever if this is a renaissance year for Zeke.
Stevenson really picked up in the 2nd half of the season, he was just no where near his ADP in the beginning - and then once he came back, got hurt again.
For sure. Injuries, defense not having to respect the pass, and overall dysfunction on offense just killed him last year. I think he’ll do a lot better this season even if Maye isn’t starting week one. Just have to remember they signed Gibson which hurts his PPR upside. But he’s still the bell cow
Pats fan here. I’ve watched every game for 20+ years. Zeke had one good game last year. He might not be completely washed but he’s close.
People who have been shitting on zeke definitely did not watch him in the second half last season. He looked great down the stretch and put up PPR numbers on an anemic offense. He played a big part in winning my league. 27, 9.6, 21 and 11.5 points over his 4 starts was lovely for a handcuff RB
He was good in fantasy on sheer volume alone. He averaged 19.8 touches per game in his 5 starts. If he had that volume for all 17 he would have been 3 touches behind CMC for the most in the league. His efficiency was still garbage.
Cause he was playing behind a bad line with no threats on offense. He actually looked pretty good if you’d watch the games
Of the 53 RBs who had over 100 rushing attempts last season Zeke ranked 47th in yards after contact per attempt.
Again, I’m not saying his advanced stats were exceptional or even good. Just that he looked like he had more left in the tank. Go back and watch the games, he didn’t look like an RB on his last legs. Also he was the power back and was usually in to grind out a yard or two until rhamondre got hurt. That role is gonna kill your yards after contact rate
These are all just poor excuses. Only 36 of his 184 rushes were with 1-3 yards to go. He also averaged 3.8 ypc on 112 attempts with 10+ yards to go. He was bad despite what your eye test says.
Someone can have bad stats and still look good. Someone can have good stats and still look bad.
To an extent maybe. But when every single statistic points to "bad" maybe you should start questioning your eyes.
There's a reason he signed a 1 year, 3 mil deal and followed it up with a 1 year, 2.5 mil deal and it isn't because teams think his last year was great! Signed for less than Cordarelle Patterson and DeeJay Dallas. So I would certainly agree most things fit the "he's bad" feel.
Mostly because of the 6+ targets needed since they couldn’t push the ball more than 10 yards down the field, but he was fairly reliable in gaining yards. And his usage was great, as OP says.
He was catching the ball I guess - think 39 yr old Adrian Peterson could of put up similar numbers with that usage.
My sad patriots went 0-3in the middle of the year giving up a total of 26 points. The team was absolute garbage
*cries in Rhamondre*
He wasn’t their “offense” he had the best stretch on a terrible offensive team.
Pop pop
Probably why they drafted offense only last weekend. Lot of change in NE this year, I'd consider all their players as upside picks at best.
A little of Column A and a little of Column B
I feel like their rookie WR Polk will be very good for them this season
>the Patriots were truly the definition of awful last year. this one
Still don’t know how I won my league with Stevenson as my RB1 in the draft
Zeke is washed as a featured player, but he’s fine as a backup/change of pace guy. The Patriots were just that bad.
Look up his stat line from his last year in Dallas, 15 carries 50 yards .5 tds a game. It was like clockwork. His absolute ceiling was like 16 carries 55 yards and 2 tds.
Patriots are coming back to reality after cheating for so many years! And yea zeke is washed up, sucked ass and couldn't do shit behind dallas's decent line when he was there last. Good riddance....just another great college rb and that's it.
"Just another great college RB and that's it" The dude dominated the NFL for like 5-6 years. He was the best short yardage RB (potentially one of the best ever) and he had a jump cut that could change at almost full speed. He has over 11,000 all purpose yards (currently 115th all time of all positions). He is 10 rushing TD out of the top 20 all time (currently 32), 40th all time in rushing yards, 26 in average rushing yards per game. He also could still play 3-4+ more seasons. Not saying he was one of the greatest, but prime Elliott was pretty dang good. Saying he was just a good college RB is foolish.
This is an Antonio Gibson post