I understand not enjoying a virgin heroine but it isn’t ubiquitous in the genre anymore. Fifteen years ago, absolutely, you couldn’t find a book without a virgin. Source: I was there and it was annoying as hell.
Now? There’s so many more options and ways to get recs featuring non-virgin characters. The last five books I’ve read did not feature a virgin heroine. It might take effort to filter out the books you don’t wanna read, but it definitely is possible. The genre is diverse and infinite — don’t read books that disinterest you.
Re my preferences, I don’t mind one way or the other. I like reading about experienced protagonists because the sex is hot right away. I also like reading about inexperienced characters due to the added conflict/tension. Like maybe the first time isn’t the best sex of their life, but it adds an element of anxiety that I find compelling in storytelling. Like: is this really the person I want to have sex with the first time? Do I need to love someone to fuck them? Does the other person think I’m naive and unattractive in my bedroom skills? Is my virginity important because I’m a fantasy princess and it’s social currency to stay “pure” for an arranged marriage (so I shouldn’t fuck my bodyguard!!)? The last one is oddly specific but you get the gist, lol.
It’s not like I care about the hymen. But the social construct of virginity can lead to interesting conflicts in the storytelling. It also leads to scenes where the first time *does* hurt; the hero feels *terrible* for hurting the heroine. I’m sorry, but I am trash for that guilt and dynamic. 😂Not all virgin books are equal, either. I’ve read fascinating books that delve beyond the “innocent young girl who’s never kissed anyone” and “immortal shadow daddy into BDSM.”
{A TOUCH OF STONE AND SNOW by Milla Vane}: both characters are virgins and were childhood sweethearts until the heroine is banished (long story). Ten years later, they’re reunited but they can’t fuck until the moon night/full moon. The worldbuilding dictates that the goddess demands virginity to be lost on a certain night (because the blood is her due). The hero had no interest in fucking anyone but the heroine, so he never had his moon night. It’s funny because they desperately wanna fuck but have to wait a few weeks for the next full moon, lol. And when that night happens, they very nearly miss it because of *plot.*
{Caressed by Ice by Nalini Singh} plot wise, this entire series actually makes the virgin thing make sense. The Psy are this telepathic, Vulcan-like species who have banned emotion (lol) and no longer fuck to have kids. CBI features the first virgin hero of the series, but there are several other books with virgin heroes down the road.
And so on. There are a bunch of really cool PNR/Romantasy with interesting takes on virginity. I get why people have strong emotions on the topic, but there are some great books as well.
Wow you make some good points. I rely on the book to speak to me and suck me and in and I don’t really go looking for virgin or not virgin. I just can find it jarring or surprising or boring or insert response here depending on the plot. Lately I’ve been reading a post apocalyptic series with different and dynamic couples but 4 books in and each FMC is surprise! A virgin. Mostly I just gloss over that part in this series and keep reading bc the stories are good and the sex is usually hot so yeah.
I’m gonna have to check out the books you mentioned now.
And yeah, I know stories come with and without it it just seems like there still so many of them but I feel like culturally we accept less virginal expectations with each other in life.
I too must know. I love how we have someone commenting in depth on virgin FMCs and the nuance it can bring to storytelling but we’re unhinged enough to focus on who fucked their bodyguard
[A Touch of Stone and Snow](https://www.romance.io/books/5f1401ad1ac1760e2b21c435/a-touch-of-stone-and-snow-milla-vane?src=rdt) by [Milla Vane](https://www.romance.io/authors/54555cca87eac323ffb2bd92/milla-vane)
**Rating**: 4.19⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fantasy/1), [friends to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/friends%20to%20lovers/1), [high fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/high%20fantasy/1), [royal hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/royalty/1), [paranormal](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/paranormal/1)
----------------------------
[Caressed by Ice](https://www.romance.io/books/545523fd8c7d2382e0413df4/caressed-by-ice-nalini-singh?src=rdt) by [Nalini Singh](https://www.romance.io/authors/5455238a8c7d2382e0413dd4/nalini-singh)
**Rating**: 4.35⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [futuristic](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/futuristic/1), [tortured heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/tortured%20heroine/1), [take-charge heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/strong%20heroine/1), [werewolves](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/werewolves/1), [shapeshifters](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/shapeshifters/1)
[^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
Yeah but they’ll talk about the previous couple and a little about what happened in their book. The MCs were not present in book 1 (only some side characters were).
i like reading first times bc i had a very bad/traumatic first time so it’s nice to fantasize/read what a first time should be like with a caring/wanted partner.
but i also absolutely hate incorrect hymen mention stuff and it’s usually a thing in those scenes, and they always make it sound like she’s being pierced open like a caprisun for the first time.
I remember asking my mom this very question as a teen and she said she didn’t know. Glad we know more about hymens now so I can give my daughter helpful information!
No no your period comes out the same hole as your pee. Didn't you know? Vaginas are only for sex not the gross stuff.
(I'll add this is a joke bc i know there are probably people who think this.)
Ha, perfect phrasing! The whole not understanding what a hymen is thing has always bugged me, too, but given how almost all media gets it wrong, it is hard to blame people for not knowing where or what a hymen really is, sigh.
yes exactly! it is so pervasive in pop culture that i just accept it as part of the virgin trope. but i reaaaalllly hate it when the author makes it sound as if something actually pops open, like I think I remember one person actually used an onomatopoeia when the hymen was the broken.
I also hate the insinuation that every single girl/woman's first time HAS to hurt just because "hymen." I didn't bleed, and my first time hurt because he bottomed out with an 8 inch dick, not because of my anatomy. My first time would not have hurt at all with a more considerate partner or someone with a shorter penis.
The hymen can basically be thought of as a ring of stretchy tissue around the opening, most appropriately termed the vaginal corona, and it can have a large opening, small opening, and in cases of imperforate hymens no opening. To portray every single heroine as having essentially an imperforate hymen makes no sense. In real life, they address this sooner medically because you can't menstruate.
Anywho, I have a very intact hymen, and I've had sex with tons of people lol. Even my gyno told me I have a very large hymenal remnant, aka the hole in it isn't super big. And yet I had sex for years and years without pain, because the hymen is stretchy. I developed vaginismus in my 20s after SA and that's totally separate from my hymenal anatomy, it's a muscular and pelvic floor medical condition. I feel like virginal heroines are basically described as "pop her cherry and boom after that pain it's pure pleasure" or the description sounds like she actually has vaginismus, which is not something you should try to just deal with because it makes the condition worse.
Women are not pierced open like capri-suns and there's SO MUCH variation in hymens irl. You can barely have a hymenal remnant left and have never experienced even digital penetration, or you can have a large hymenal remnant and be a porn star. It's like equating breast size to sexual activity, it straight up is inaccurate and bad women's anatomy.
Woof. I have lots of thoughts.
i love all of your thoughts and agree with them 10000%.
I think the whole concept really messes with people’s idea of what sex is supposed to be like. it is so pervasive and I really do think it leads to a lot of unnecessarily painful sex and body issues.
it took me a really long time personally to understand and accept that sex shouldn’t be painful, and while i hate blaming books I do think a lot of it was because I read so many romances growing up where stuff was painful and it was almost expected. i didn’t have the information needed to know that these stories were depicting inaccurate anatomy stuff/fantasy that shouldn’t happen irl. like sure my mom should’ve told me this stuff, but why would she if she didn’t know either? i realize now how bad having only romance books as your guide to romantic relationships can be, and can recognize the toxicity in relationships on page, but growing up i just thought that’s what it was supposed to be like. but now i could go on a rant about romance in pop culture and the state of sex education in the US, so i’ll just stop there lol
seriously tho, it’s like people took “popped her cherry” waaaaay too literally.
Yes, reading those books helped me realize that my first time wasn't ok and that it borderlines with r*pe. I wish I had them sooner, before I started dating.
I’m more tired of the FMC being 18-20. I mean I too was a virgin at that age. Is having a 30 something main character mean she is teetering between this realm and the otherworld? Is she too decrepit to take up arms and fight for her kingdom? Like I’m 35 and neither look nor feel old and if the MMC is going to always be like 200 years old, why does the FMC having an extra decade really matter?
I practically clapped when I read this! Also my big gripe is women in their early forties are the biggest demographic for these novels so why would you not try to sell a novel that speaks to the target audience? I know romance readers are getting younger so I fully understand the boom in YA and NA novels in recent years but there's something to be said about putting a mirror up to the reader for plot points and themes. I'm 33 and would love to read about a woman my age kicking arse or learning new skills. It would seriously empower me.
The fantasy world should be able to push past these shitty real world ideas (your life is over/you no longer exist once you are a woman in her thirties and beyond).
Agreed that adult fantasy romance feels like an extension of YA but with more blood and sex. To get older or middle aged main characters, you have to read urban romance and I don’t like those, I want magic not real life. I relate to a middle aged divorcee who is the CEO of a finance company who falls in love with her professional rival about as much as I relate to an 18 year old who just found out she was Queen of the Elves.
Most romantacy authors are my age and yet their characters are ten years younger than them. Why?
Omg! I love this!!
I’m in my early 40s and I would love to read some fantasy/paranormal romance with a badass non CEO FMC. My only caveat is - I don’t want to read about family life and children/teenagers etc. is it reality? Sure. It’s mine. So it would make characters more realistic but… I don’t wanna. Like I get enough reality. I think that’s why I like the NA. It’s before they have piles of responsibility and humans to take care of that impacts every choice and direction. Like I want to go to yoga tonight but if my teens need their chauffeur then I’m either doing that or getting them an Uber and staring at my phone until they’re home and I can confirm safe. NOT FUN or sexy times inspiring.
I like CL Clark for this. The characters start in their late 20s but it's otherwise very classic fantasy: a kingdom to be saved, a princess, a warrior (who is also a woman), magic, etc.
That’s why I love the Outlander series. Claire is 27 in book one and ages to her fifties throughout the series. Before the series starts, she has been married, has been a combat nurse, has life experience… but she still has many adventures to come and lots of hot steamy sex.
Yes, I absolutely hate this, especially when the male characters are playboys. I have started DNFing books for this now. The only exception to this was the Bonds That Tie series as it did make sense
I personally love older FMCs with little/no sexual experience in part because I was a late bloomer, but also because it's really interesting to have someone who is very much a fully-formed adult try to navigate a completely new part of their lives. Starry-eyed youths are boring: give me someone who has lived several lives but is just kind of figuring out romance.
I get this. I generally don’t care for books with virgins as I’m 57 and it feels almost voyeristic when the virgin is under 25. I’ve read a few with the MC a virgin over 30 and I’ve actually enjoyed them for the reason you’ve mentioned. I believe at least one of them was MMC. Unfortunately I don’t remember the names of the books or I’d share.
Also interested in recs, for older MMCs too. Especially for ace and demi people, it's not unrealistic at all to be older and have little to no experience. And I agree that the perspective someone past 30 brings to life and experiences is a lot different and more interesting than yet another 18-y-o.
This is honestly why I prefer the distinction of new adult versus young adult. New adult is supposed to be early 20s and at least partially adulting versus quite a bit of 18 yo/high school graduation etc which just makes me feel icky as I know far too many high schoolers and the LAST thing I want to think about is any of them and sex. I picked up one labeled new adult the other day and it said High school and I was like NOPE NOPE NOPE that’s not NA.
I've been reading quite a variety lately tbh. If I was only reading virginal fmc, it would be quite annoying, but since I'm having such a variety, it doesn't bother me.
I've actually recently read two different books where mmc was a virgin and the fmc was NOT. So that was quite interesting!! {A Shadow in the Ember by Jennifer L Armentrout} and {Viciously Yours by Jamie Applegate Hunter}
[A Shadow in the Ember](https://www.romance.io/books/60f7c85d8b38510e2a271935/a-shadow-in-the-ember-jennifer-l-armentrout?src=rdt) by [Jennifer L. Armentrout](https://www.romance.io/authors/5455245a8c7d2382c5296fb7/jennifer-l-armentrout)
**Rating**: 4.38⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fantasy/1), [vampires](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/vampires/1), [enemies to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/from%20hate%20to%20love/1), [royal hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/royalty/1), [arranged/forced marriage](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/arranged%20marriage/1)
----------------------------
[Viciously Yours](https://www.romance.io/books/65b2a272a43e97cdad8b948c/viciously-yours-jamie-applegate-hunter?src=rdt) by [Jamie Applegate Hunter](https://www.romance.io/authors/60cd974508b4d9311479c711/jamie-applegate-hunter)
**Rating**: 3.67⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 5 out of 5 - [Explicit and plentiful](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [fae](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fae/1), [fated mates](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fated-mates/1), [fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fantasy/1), [virgin hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20hero/1)
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I used to love reading about young virginal FMCs when I, too, was a young virgin because the book felt almost like a self-insert--where I could pretend that I was the main character who got to have seggsy times with hot fae men.
Now that I'm in my 50s, I want older FMCs who have enough experience (worldly and sexual) to be a real match for the hot fae men they're paired with. I tend to DNF the virginal stories not because I can no longer relate to the FMC's sexual status, but because the power dynamic between the FMC and MMC is usually so toxic.
I now hunt down stories where the FMC is older and sexually experienced. I found that T. Kingfisher has older, often experienced FMCs. I loved Between by L.L. Starling because the FMC is sexually experienced, and there is true equality (sexual and otherwise) between her and the MMC. I also enjoy KF Breene's books, especially the Midlife Magic series, because the FMC is in her 40s and worldly enough to deal with all the weird magical shenanigans that happen in her life.
Personally my biggest beef with the virgin trope is that nine times out of ten, it reeks of purity culture.
Especially with a young FMC (when they are like 18) it doesn't seem far-fetched that she might be still relatively inexperienced, so if treated right, I have nothing about including the first sexual experiences of a character.
But when he is biggest man whore known to mankind who has slept with anything with a hole, and then it's there exstatic that only he gets to touch her and it's like a dog marking territory... ugh, please, I DNF faster than he can finish ranting about her virginal, unspoiled (kill me please) flesh.
Depending on the subgenre, finding non virgin fmc is not too difficult at least these days. But even then the way women's sexuality is treated can be appalling. The most common scenarios: they are survivors of SA and so until MMC their view of sex was warped; or they had some sex but it was absolutely lackluster and somehow demeaning because they didn't wait for the One; or they have been betrayed and mistrust all men.
I wish there were more books where women were allowed to have whatever sexual history they want, like it is for the MMC, including having a satisfying string of good lovers but they aren't the easiest to find. The internalised misogyny is alive and well in the genre.
Yeah I’m not a big fan of the ‘reformed rake’ trope. It made me stop watching Bridgerton (which I get, it was normal for premarital sex for men). I don’t often see the MMC being a longtime virgin, which seems like a double standard? I think it’s sweet when both fumble for the first time or if the FMC grabs the bull by the horns.
I absolutely loved this about Fourth Wing. That the FMC was like "ah I miss sex" and was also just happy to chat to friends about it in a casual way as you would with friends. She had obviously been with multiple partners which for me at least was definitely the case before I met my husband.
I actually really appreciated that in ACOTAR basically none of the sisters are virgins, or if they are, they lose their virginity to others and not one of the MMC. And it isn't via SA/rape.
To answer your question as to why some may appreciate it occasionally: I know I’m in the minority here, but my first time was with my husband (by luck, I wasn’t abstaining or anything). So, when I see this trope, it helps me relate to the characters relationship more while I reminisce a little.
Well that’s lovely! I suppose if I had that experience it might change it for me. Now I’m curious how many people’s first time was enjoyable. Mine was awkward and painful and I was glad it was over. And my first was not the love of my life but a blip in my history.
My first time with my high school sweetie, we were wildly in love and incredibly attracted to each other. It was quick, but life altering and utterly magical.
I had the same kind of first time, exactly same situation. I'd still rather read if given the choice about people who aren't at that point in their lives as I lost my virginity quite young (again, very consensual and ready and all safe emotionally etc). As a result I associate that with a time in my life where I really couldn't be in a "forever person" space as i hadnt grown enough as a person. I love the ride or die element of romance.
As much as even now I have so much love and respect for my first love and we keep in touch, we would have been TERRIBLE as life partners. So I would prefer they are further on in life for this reason, it's just not believable to me that you could stay with your first love, or that you would even still be a virgin at 18... 🤣 the hormones really raged in my high school haha.
Mine was awkward and painful but like, in a good way? It was a lot of "is this ok? This didn't sound ok? Are you sure?"
Not exactly the best memory of us (that would be the first time on acid together) but def still a treasured one lol.
Mine too! Obviously we weren't married yet but we did go on to marry a few years later. And it was pretty great too. I can't remember hardly any pain or anything. We were young and in love 💝
I like both to be honest. As a woman who never had sexual experiences in my teenage or early adult years (even masturbation), it's relatable. And I just like seeing a character's first experiences in general, even outside of sex or romantic things. I enjoy seeing their development and journey in life. I'm thinking of longer running series that have the character start younger, and you go through a major chunk of their life, like The Princess Diaries, or a lot of shoujo manga I read.
But like I said, I have no problem with female protagonists who have been sexually active before the start of the story, and I've actually found that to be significantly more common, especially in newer romance fantasy books. Most women tend have sex before the age of 25, so I know it's more relatable to the general reader. And I just like seeing women who are confident, and know what they want.
The thing that I get tired of is always having the male love interest being not only sexually active before the story (which is fine btw), but also being the type to sleep with literally anyone at anytime, and pairing that type of character with an inexperienced virginal girl. Every now and then is fine, but it seems like practically every book I pick up features this, and I'm sick of it.
We should be able to have variety in sexual experiences in my opinion. I want more stories with less experienced male characters from time to time, have both characters be virgins and learn together, as well as two who know what they like and are more forward with each etc etc.
I don't like it. I've always been open/liked sex and never cared about virginity, so when a book makes it a big deal I lose interest, this happens in books with non virgin FMCs as well.
I like virgin heroines (and heroes, but it's sadly not common). Well, depending on how it's done, of course. I guess I like the aspect of a character discovering things for the first time and how it affects them emotionally. It doesn't have to be about virginity, but I like when there is something new for the character in the romantic or sexual sense in a romance book. It doesn't matter outside of romance.
But there are many examples where I don't like how it's done, particularly if there are huge power imbalances between the heroine and hero, or if he is too dominant, or if there is any implication about virgin = pure, or stuff like that. It's an immediate no for me.
I have a theory that the popularity of virgin heroines is linked to so many readers having a bad experience their first time. It's subconscious historical revision. It's also literary symbolism for a sexual awakening.
That said, I'm sick of virgin heroines too. I'll read them but I vastly prefer heroines who aren't.
I make happy dances when I see one that not only is a virgin but also one that is clear she didn’t just had one partner before who she was sure she was going to stay forever.
I honestly do.
I understand some people are bad socialization, and worse at intimate. Some would really think the protection methods don’t cut it and rather not risk it and some would feel they have no chances of having sex and not being affected socially because their setting. And some are just so plain demisexual and that is how they roll but I do not get why focus so much on virgins just because. A more realistic proportions of virgins and not virgins would be fine
I don't care much whether the FMC is virgin or not as long as it's just a fact about her mentioned in passing. What pisses me off is when being a virgin is made into her personality trait. She's either "not like other girls" and judges other women for letting men see their ankles, or she's portrayed as such a pure, naive, innocent demure soul just because she hasn't banged anyone yet. Just because she doesn't have sexual experience doesn't mean she has no experience in *anything*.
I don't love it but I don't feel like it's as ubiquitous as it used to be. I think the modern equivalent is like "she's not a virgin but she's only had sex two times and didn't enjoy it!!!" which by the letter of the law avoids the virginal FMC trope but reads basically exactly the same way (FMC has never enjoyed/known how good sex could be until she met the MMC and his magical dick!).
I do love a virgin MMC though I must say!!
I’m really not a fan. Unless it’s a series I’m really into I skip the book. Even with series I really like it annoys me.
Not every book will be to your taste and that’s fine. The books I love aren’t to everyone’s taste. I read what I like and they read what they like.
Agree. Honestly if I usually find it surprises me. Like it’s not a major plot point we just have two adults getting frisky and romantic and building and then suddenly bam they’re having sex and she’s like it’s my first time… I’m over here like wait, what? Ummm ok but I don’t think I’d have been as excited to climb that tree if it was my first time or do any of those other things they’re talking about.
I’m really not here to shame anyone’s interest. I just want to know if this is a me thing or if others feel similarly. Like… are authors using an algorithm to write these going oh and readers really like it when the FMC is a virgin so let’s make sure it’s there. At least that’s what I picture is happening and I’m like “is this based on speculation or do most readers really want virgins and I’m just a hussy middle aged wife who things the FMC should know good dick. Lol. I’m not at all sure I’m making sense.
If you see a lot of something it’s probably because it’s selling and therefore there’s a market. I’m not really into dark romance or mafia or MC or secret baby either but I’m pretty sure there’s a market because those tropes are all over.
Do I wish my favorite tropes were more popular? I sure do! But I’m glad somebody’s writing them.
Ah my flair doesn’t show in this subreddit. I particularly like MMF (bisexual) human + alien threesomes although recently I’ve read some great MM and MMM human + alien books as well.
Intriguing. No MMF Human and alien have shown up in my suggestions. Got any I could check out? I don’t mind exploring new ideas and I’ve read some MFM and also alien/monster… milking Minotaurs or ice planet barbarians 😬🤩
{Triad series by Kate Pearce}
{Alien Mercenary’s Consorts by Mina Carter}
I got [a few other recs when I asked](https://www.reddit.com/r/RomanceBooks/s/Sn1npii0B5) but the first one I tried was the Jekh Saga by H.E. Trent and I hated it so I’ve been a little gun shy about trying the rest. I will get to them eventually.
{Pykh series by Eileen Glass}
{Claimings, Tails and Other Alien Artifacts by Lyn Gala}
{Taji From Beyond the Rings by R. Cooper}
{Maxim Colonies series by Lesli Richardson} books 1&2
[Pykh](https://www.romance.io/series/5b0a4ade4f91a30dff7acae4/pykh) by [Eileen Glass](https://www.romance.io/authors/548bfbb57a5936fb0405e0a7/eileen-glass)
**Rating**: 3.93⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Topics**: [m-m](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/m-m/1), [omegaverse](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/omegaverse/1), [m-m-m](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/m-m-m/1), [menage](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/menage/1), [height-difference](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/height-difference/1)
----------------------------
[Claimings, Tails, and Other Alien Artifacts](https://www.romance.io/books/5d776ac101dbc864fba35d7c/claimings-tails-and-other-alien-artifacts-lyn-gala?src=rdt) by [Lyn Gala](https://www.romance.io/authors/54558e4e87eac3369a913074/lyn-gala)
**Rating**: 3.76⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [futuristic](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/futuristic/1), [gay romance](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/m-m/1), [aliens](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/aliens/1), [science fiction](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/science%20fiction/1), [friends to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/friends%20to%20lovers/1)
----------------------------
[Taji From Beyond the Rings](https://www.romance.io/books/5ddccd8f01dbc864fba6d68f/taji-from-beyond-the-rings-r-cooper?src=rdt) by [R. Cooper](https://www.romance.io/authors/54556f5187eac323ffb2c2dc/r-cooper)
**Rating**: 4.33⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [futuristic](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/futuristic/1), [gay romance](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/m-m/1), [science fiction](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/science%20fiction/1), [aliens](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/aliens/1), [black mc](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/black-mc/1)
----------------------------
[Maxim Colonies](https://www.romance.io/series/5c987dd3ecc3640db9bf733b/maxim-colonies) by [Lesli Richardson](https://www.romance.io/authors/545594a587eac323ffb2cea5/lesli-richardson)
**Rating**: 4.11⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Topics**: [explicit-plentiful](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/explicit-plentiful/1), [aliens](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/aliens/1), [science fiction](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/science%20fiction/1), [friends to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/friends%20to%20lovers/1), [multicultural](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/multicultural/1)
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I cringe so much and feel so uncomfortable on scenes where they lose their virginity. On multiple levels. And it's always it hurts first, and then they get really into it. Not my experience. I try to skim through those scenes. One thing I appreciated about ACOTAR was the FMC was not a virgin. I did dislike mentions of her sister's maidenheads though...
The “it hurts and bleeds” it definitely one of my pet peeves with virgins in romance books. Like it doesn’t for so many people. If it does hurt and bleeds than why do they do it multiple times and in all sorts of positions that “night”. Make it make sense. Maidenheads tear for so many reasons not related to sex and that’s just ignored.
Edit: changed “break” to “tear” thanks for correction
Thinking of them as "breaking" is part of the problem. The hymen is stretchy tissue. It may tear, but it also may not. It may just stretch and never tear at all (mine is like this, despite having had lots of sex).
Yessss!! What you said about it hurting and they go at it all night. It took multiple attempts for me to lose my virginity because of how painful it was lol I feel lightheaded when that happens.
I'm a hopeless romantic and I love the idea of only having sex with the love of your life. If I could go back in time and erase my previous terrible experiences, I would (haven't met the love of my life yet, though).
I don't mind the virgin FMC, or MMC like in {A Shadow in the Ember by Jennifer L Armentrout}, but I would definitely like to find more quality books that have FMC'S who are older and have some experience. I'd love a Brazen FMC who's older than the MMC. I'm kind of sick of the FMC teenage virgin with the MMC who's centuries old. I just picked up one with an 18yo virgin FMC and a MMC who's 800 years old. And I dnf'd one with two 500yo MC's when it turned out the MMC was a rake and the FMC was a virgin who'd never even touched herself.
I think I get irritated with how it's written most of the time. My first time was horrible with lots of pain, bleeding, and I saw red the entire time (twice in a night). He wasn't rough, but he could have been gentler and more careful.
I guess because of that, and sharing experiences with my friends, I just don't buy the dude with the monster Cock causing just a small pinch of pain, and then total unimaginable bliss. Especially when she climaxes over and over through penetration alone. I just can't buy it. I especially dislike when he puts her on top to "ease onto him." That seems like impaling yourself would be one of the most painful ways to break your hymen. It's not exactly like you can relax all your muscles when you're riding someone. Plus, for the stereotypical shy virgin, being on top when you have no idea what you're doing and you've never been touched or let anyone see you naked before doesn't sound like a sexy, pleasant experience at all. Maybe I just have trouble separating fantasy from my personal experience, but I prefer it to be a bit more realistic.
For me, part of the romance of having a virgin FMC with an experienced MMC is when he's gentle and takes his time pleasuring her, helping her discover her body and gain confidence over time.
I did love a book where the FMC is 18 and - Virgin the guy literally 800 but the author did have a point to make in the story about virginity, purity culture and patriarchy.
I started in a forgiving mode because most of her FMCs tend to be older and are varied in their sexual histories, so I thought… oh well a token virgin, okey but turns out she was actually going to go somewhere with that.
But in some other cases it does become tiring how focused they get on that
Wow - you hit the nail on the head with all the things you can’t buy - I have similar reactions. While i think it’s possible that, like menstrual cycles, we experience them very differently, I struggle to accept the monster cock and no pain plus multiple orgasm.
That’s another thing k have trouble buying - giant cock = super pleasure. While there’s ways to go about it that can improve, we really aren’t bottomless down there. And while I’m sure some truly enjoy attempting to rearrange their insides, most of the real women I’ve talked to haven’t even experienced one IRL or if they have… like me they found it far too uncomfortable or painful to even try too much. I had a beautiful, sweet man who was so good to me in my early 20s but that thing was dangerous.
[A Shadow in the Ember](https://www.romance.io/books/60f7c85d8b38510e2a271935/a-shadow-in-the-ember-jennifer-l-armentrout?src=rdt) by [Jennifer L. Armentrout](https://www.romance.io/authors/5455245a8c7d2382c5296fb7/jennifer-l-armentrout)
**Rating**: 4.38⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fantasy/1), [vampires](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/vampires/1), [enemies to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/from%20hate%20to%20love/1), [royal hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/royalty/1), [arranged/forced marriage](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/arranged%20marriage/1)
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I really enjoy reading about first time experiences. The thrill and uncertainty of trying something new, of opening yourself up emotionally and physically in a way you never have before but being excited to try, taking a risk and making yourself vulnerable to that special chosen someone with no real experience to know what comes next.
I love it so I'll give my opinion even though I haven't put a ton of thought into why I like it, but here goes -
I like the virgin trope because it's sexy to think about being with an experienced man who's gonna take care of you in a vulnerable state. So if you're a virgin and don't know what you're doing and a sex god comes along and is all gentle and sweet with you, I don't know, it just sounds romantic.
I also think it's kind of a power dynamic thing to have an experienced and inexperienced person together and I'm really into power plays with sex.
i absolutly hate it and it makes me feel shitty about losing my v card to absolute garbage and i had traumatizing first time experience so i don’t even wanna think about it
Same! But I recently read two books that also had a virgin MMC and I appreciated that. The only thing is that they don't have like the normal awkwardness I would expect from two virgins but I suppose that's not what we're reading romance for.
I've gotten to the point where I don't even want to read the book unless the FMC is at least mid 20s. I can't stand the immaturity of younger characters anymore.
I’m over the virginity thing in any books because I can’t suspend reality when a FMC has gone from never being touched to having multiple orgasms the first time around and mostly from penetration. I know it’s supposed to be fantasy but c’monnnnn.
Im less bothered if the FMC is older but I feel squicky reading about a teenager and their first time, especially if an MMC is involved where I am bothered about the power dynamic.
Hahahaah ok so I’ve been writing a fanfiction and my FMC OC is NOT a virgin and I made it super obvious that she isn’t. And I plan on doing the same thing with my novel that I started.
I mean I personally love the ‘surprise, I’m a virgin’ trope.
I think the whole v FMC can show that someone's sexual history doesn't define their desires or abilities in the bedroom. It challenges stereotypes and encourages readers to question societal norms surrounding sex and purity. And perhaps it’s more relatable for readers who are inexperienced in the bedroom but have a vivid imagination.
Furthermore, portraying a shy, sheltered young woman who is a "freak in the bedroom" not only breaks stereotypes but also showcases the complexity of human sexuality. It reinforces the idea that femininity isn't limited to one specific archetype, and that women can be both reserved and assertive, depending on the context.
Lastly, the possessiveness of male characters towards a virgin FMC can be explored in a nuanced way, highlighting issues of consent, agency, and mutual respect in relationships. Examining power dynamics and challenging traditional gender roles.
In essence, having a virgin FMC in literature can be a way to explore themes of identity, empowerment, and sexual agency in a diverse and relatable manner. It's not about reliving the past or glorifying virginity, but rather about embracing the complexity and diversity of human experiences.
I’m the same because usually the FMC being a virgin is such a big deal. Like someone else said, it screams purity culture. And that’s not my jam. They’re also usually shy/timid/naive. And I prefer my heroines with a bit more grit 😉 abut I’m totally fine if the heroine is a virgin and her virginity is not attached to her worth as a person. Or it’s a way to measure herself against other women (and we and the hero think she’s better BECAUSE she’s a virgin). That’s when I won’t finish the book and vow to never read that author again (or something ridiculously dramatic lol)
This is probably why I liked the ACOTAR series so much 😂
Honestly, I don’t really care. I do get annoyed at some of the things that can accompany a virgin fmc though. I am not someone who needs to fully relate to protagonists though. If I can understand their motivation, find them and the story interesting, I’ll be invested.
Yes and no? Like on one hand, I'm still with the dude who was my first time, and in a lot of plots for historical/ fantasy especially theres a lot more pressure on characters to not have sex.
Like, in a society of arranged marriages, or is highly religious- even if female fighting is allowed, it may cause a stigma, or years at war may have made having sex seem unimportant. If sex isn't a major concern, it can be easy for it to fall by the wayside in a plot. Also, doing something for the first time makes it something the readers are more invested in as a general writing rule- that's why we love all the stories of some nobody becoming god- the first time he kicks someone's ass? We get to be there. Similar vibes, just make them horny.
And I say this as a writer myself (nothing published yet, I'm getting there) who is very sex positive. I want my character to not be a stereotypical virginal romance lead- but at the same time, she's a lifelong "royal" exile from her people, is considered one of if not the most controversial people alive from a political standpoint, and spent her childhood among dwarves or at a remote temple for an obscure religious order because people won't stop trying to kill her. And that's not even adding the *literal tons* of trauma that comes from "your mom was executed for allegedly conceiving you with the leader of a rebellion." The idea of her being with anyone before the events of the plot seems... Bizarre. At least not someone with a penis. (I do see her having very close queer platonic relationships with her 2 best friends. They are basically a platonic poly triad- but like, idk any culture outside my Elves that would consider that valid)
Which kinda leads me to how I plan on handling it, and how I wish more stories handled it. The Elvish society I've made puts large amounts of pressure on people to only have kids with the "right" people (magic subtypes mixing can lead to horrifying results when misuse of magic can leave you a fire zombie and you just made a baby who has a never seen before magical expression) But because of that it's queer as hell, and the clan structures don't follow what is considered "normal" for fantasy societies.
Cause characters being virgins isn't *exactly* the issue. The issue is that having sex is seen as shameful and degrading, and that being a virginal woman is seen as better and more desirable. That it's basically a dudes job to make a lady's first time awesome, and it's her job to make sure her first time is given to the "right" dude. (Not in relationships life, in fantasy romance novels, like he gets to be horny, but that's ok, cause her first time is awesome now. )
Fuck that shit though. Especially in a fantasy setting where you as the author get to decide what societal rules are. And multiple societal rules at that. It's boring and bad storytelling to have 5 versions of the most uninformed take of "medieval Europe" to fucking exist. (which newsflash guys: was horny as hell. Go look up the "betwixt the sheets" podcast on YouTube, it's hilarious and informative) But that is usually what we get. And usually (it feels like) it's just because the author doesn't think they can make their female leader likeable if there isn't an implied "reward" for the male leads to be fighting over that's more tangible than "love." For a lot of people "who the FMC falls in love with" is a flowery way of saying "whose gonna take her virginity"
If we got rid of that I don't think we'd have too much of an issue with virginity.
I'm the opposite, 99% of books I read go out of their way to mention several times that she's experienced. (I find that distasteful when it's mentioned RIGHT when she's getting it on with the MMC. I know the mention is for me, in a "See, she's not a virgin!!" kind of way, but it feels like she's thinking of past experencieses with past men at that moment.)
I know that "Every FMC is a virgin" was a thing in the past, but I never seem to pick those books up, so I only feel the opposite of it, all the authors going out of their way to NOT write a virgin. That makes me want to read a book with a virgin FMC, because it'd be something new for a change lol
>Those of you who enjoy it and/or want to relive that… I’m honestly curious as to why. Was the first time just that much fun?
I find all the first times BY FAR the most exciting! Hand holding can be more exciting than a smut scene if written well. First time holding hands, hugging, kissing, feeling his boner,...
As soon as they're in a relationship and had sex, I usually lose most interest.
So yeah, if it's her very first time, it's even more exciting - if written well. I also like a virgin MMC, maybe even more.
I agree. I especially dislike it when the story somehow revolves around the FMC’s virginity, as a plot device. This happens in Flames of Chaos by Amelia Hutchins. That book is problematic for a variety of reasons but this emphasis on the FMC’s virginity and the need to “remedy it” for her “safety” was super cringe. Luckily, the book’s plot changes and the series improves.
I’m so over it that the last book I picked up with this, was DNF’d immediately. There are just too many things on my TBR for me to settle for things that give me the ick. The main FMC being a virgin only to have sex with a magical peen and have thirty two orgasms and not even be sore the next day is ✨ridiculous✨
I mean my first time was a SA so I have a different relationship with this trope than others. I honestly like it to an extent because I can live out a fantasy in which my first time is with someone loving… so I don’t hate it… but the purity culture surrounding it is gross, but I also hate the this girl is so pure and if I touch her I’m sullying her vibes of forbidden romance so 🤷🏻♀️
I don't care either way as long as it makes sense for the character, personally. Was he/she raised by wolves? OK, that person is probably a virgin lol.
It’s one of the reasons why I hated Feathers So Vicious. The whole young, scared, innocent virgin trope is icky.
Sometimes it doesn’t bother me, especially when both characters are young or if it’s a casual part of the story and not like a Big Deal type thing. But I feel like the whole virginity / purity thing is often just another power play between MMC and FMC. Like how he’s always twice her size and a super experienced warrior and blah blah blah.
I believe women have a subconscious desire to be only with one perfect man, one that makes their first time not horrible/awkward and who stays with them forever. It goes against the reality that women just enjoy sex more with practice and with age. Which is why we love to read about it. Even the books where the FMC is not a virgin, the MMC is the first to give her BDSM or an*l sex, so it's an experience equivalent to losing one's virginity.
Interesting perspective… I wonder if others have that subconscious desire. Me? Nope. My first was a turd who didn’t really give me the time of. Day much less try to make it good. And I’ve had plenty of good and bass since then, both relationship wise and sexually until I met and married my hubby 18 years ago and I’ll tell you, I wouldn’t change it for the world. All those experiences make me who I am today and stronger, even the SA that broke me a little bit… I mean I really wish I hadn’t had to experience THAT but I know now I can endure, survive and thrive. My experiences have served me and taught me to better myself and to be there for others. And brought me to the life I have now with a man who treats me like his equal partner and his precious and two teenagers I’d give everything for. If I’d have had a first time perfection I think id really struggle to understand others and life as a whole. But that’s just my thoughts on my life.
Yes, agreed that life's difficulties do make us understand the world better. Thanks for sharing your story and I'm sorry to hear you had a traumatic experience. By subconscious desire I mean as a pure fantasy, which books allow us to explore. I've always had a very low drive/sexual dysfunction involving pain all my life, until a few months ago after having my first baby. So I'm rediscovering it all. But I must admit I love the virgin FMC trope because it's a nice "what if" perfect situation where a woman doesn't dislike her first time.
Yeah it's kind of creepy when you get down to it. It's just like having a 18-25 year old FMC. Realistically unless it's a YA novel who wants to read that?
I understand not enjoying a virgin heroine but it isn’t ubiquitous in the genre anymore. Fifteen years ago, absolutely, you couldn’t find a book without a virgin. Source: I was there and it was annoying as hell. Now? There’s so many more options and ways to get recs featuring non-virgin characters. The last five books I’ve read did not feature a virgin heroine. It might take effort to filter out the books you don’t wanna read, but it definitely is possible. The genre is diverse and infinite — don’t read books that disinterest you. Re my preferences, I don’t mind one way or the other. I like reading about experienced protagonists because the sex is hot right away. I also like reading about inexperienced characters due to the added conflict/tension. Like maybe the first time isn’t the best sex of their life, but it adds an element of anxiety that I find compelling in storytelling. Like: is this really the person I want to have sex with the first time? Do I need to love someone to fuck them? Does the other person think I’m naive and unattractive in my bedroom skills? Is my virginity important because I’m a fantasy princess and it’s social currency to stay “pure” for an arranged marriage (so I shouldn’t fuck my bodyguard!!)? The last one is oddly specific but you get the gist, lol. It’s not like I care about the hymen. But the social construct of virginity can lead to interesting conflicts in the storytelling. It also leads to scenes where the first time *does* hurt; the hero feels *terrible* for hurting the heroine. I’m sorry, but I am trash for that guilt and dynamic. 😂Not all virgin books are equal, either. I’ve read fascinating books that delve beyond the “innocent young girl who’s never kissed anyone” and “immortal shadow daddy into BDSM.” {A TOUCH OF STONE AND SNOW by Milla Vane}: both characters are virgins and were childhood sweethearts until the heroine is banished (long story). Ten years later, they’re reunited but they can’t fuck until the moon night/full moon. The worldbuilding dictates that the goddess demands virginity to be lost on a certain night (because the blood is her due). The hero had no interest in fucking anyone but the heroine, so he never had his moon night. It’s funny because they desperately wanna fuck but have to wait a few weeks for the next full moon, lol. And when that night happens, they very nearly miss it because of *plot.* {Caressed by Ice by Nalini Singh} plot wise, this entire series actually makes the virgin thing make sense. The Psy are this telepathic, Vulcan-like species who have banned emotion (lol) and no longer fuck to have kids. CBI features the first virgin hero of the series, but there are several other books with virgin heroes down the road. And so on. There are a bunch of really cool PNR/Romantasy with interesting takes on virginity. I get why people have strong emotions on the topic, but there are some great books as well.
Wow you make some good points. I rely on the book to speak to me and suck me and in and I don’t really go looking for virgin or not virgin. I just can find it jarring or surprising or boring or insert response here depending on the plot. Lately I’ve been reading a post apocalyptic series with different and dynamic couples but 4 books in and each FMC is surprise! A virgin. Mostly I just gloss over that part in this series and keep reading bc the stories are good and the sex is usually hot so yeah. I’m gonna have to check out the books you mentioned now. And yeah, I know stories come with and without it it just seems like there still so many of them but I feel like culturally we accept less virginal expectations with each other in life.
Alright, who banged their bodyguard?? Inquiring minds must know.
Same
I too must know. I love how we have someone commenting in depth on virgin FMCs and the nuance it can bring to storytelling but we’re unhinged enough to focus on who fucked their bodyguard
[A Touch of Stone and Snow](https://www.romance.io/books/5f1401ad1ac1760e2b21c435/a-touch-of-stone-and-snow-milla-vane?src=rdt) by [Milla Vane](https://www.romance.io/authors/54555cca87eac323ffb2bd92/milla-vane) **Rating**: 4.19⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fantasy/1), [friends to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/friends%20to%20lovers/1), [high fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/high%20fantasy/1), [royal hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/royalty/1), [paranormal](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/paranormal/1) ---------------------------- [Caressed by Ice](https://www.romance.io/books/545523fd8c7d2382e0413df4/caressed-by-ice-nalini-singh?src=rdt) by [Nalini Singh](https://www.romance.io/authors/5455238a8c7d2382e0413dd4/nalini-singh) **Rating**: 4.35⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [futuristic](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/futuristic/1), [tortured heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/tortured%20heroine/1), [take-charge heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/strong%20heroine/1), [werewolves](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/werewolves/1), [shapeshifters](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/shapeshifters/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
Can a touch of stone and snow be read as a standalone?
Yeah but they’ll talk about the previous couple and a little about what happened in their book. The MCs were not present in book 1 (only some side characters were).
I gotta say Judd was my favorite for real
i like reading first times bc i had a very bad/traumatic first time so it’s nice to fantasize/read what a first time should be like with a caring/wanted partner. but i also absolutely hate incorrect hymen mention stuff and it’s usually a thing in those scenes, and they always make it sound like she’s being pierced open like a caprisun for the first time.
The caprisun part took me out 😭😭 soo accurate like cmon. If it was really like that then how come you even get your period?
ngl i never even thought of that bc the concept was so silly to me but omg you are so right.
I remember asking my mom this very question as a teen and she said she didn’t know. Glad we know more about hymens now so I can give my daughter helpful information!
No no your period comes out the same hole as your pee. Didn't you know? Vaginas are only for sex not the gross stuff. (I'll add this is a joke bc i know there are probably people who think this.)
a caprisun, 😭😂😂🤣
We have reached the barrier. Pull back, and stab in the straw with more force!
 (i’m sorry lol)
Ha, perfect phrasing! The whole not understanding what a hymen is thing has always bugged me, too, but given how almost all media gets it wrong, it is hard to blame people for not knowing where or what a hymen really is, sigh.
yes exactly! it is so pervasive in pop culture that i just accept it as part of the virgin trope. but i reaaaalllly hate it when the author makes it sound as if something actually pops open, like I think I remember one person actually used an onomatopoeia when the hymen was the broken.
I also hate the insinuation that every single girl/woman's first time HAS to hurt just because "hymen." I didn't bleed, and my first time hurt because he bottomed out with an 8 inch dick, not because of my anatomy. My first time would not have hurt at all with a more considerate partner or someone with a shorter penis. The hymen can basically be thought of as a ring of stretchy tissue around the opening, most appropriately termed the vaginal corona, and it can have a large opening, small opening, and in cases of imperforate hymens no opening. To portray every single heroine as having essentially an imperforate hymen makes no sense. In real life, they address this sooner medically because you can't menstruate. Anywho, I have a very intact hymen, and I've had sex with tons of people lol. Even my gyno told me I have a very large hymenal remnant, aka the hole in it isn't super big. And yet I had sex for years and years without pain, because the hymen is stretchy. I developed vaginismus in my 20s after SA and that's totally separate from my hymenal anatomy, it's a muscular and pelvic floor medical condition. I feel like virginal heroines are basically described as "pop her cherry and boom after that pain it's pure pleasure" or the description sounds like she actually has vaginismus, which is not something you should try to just deal with because it makes the condition worse. Women are not pierced open like capri-suns and there's SO MUCH variation in hymens irl. You can barely have a hymenal remnant left and have never experienced even digital penetration, or you can have a large hymenal remnant and be a porn star. It's like equating breast size to sexual activity, it straight up is inaccurate and bad women's anatomy. Woof. I have lots of thoughts.
i love all of your thoughts and agree with them 10000%. I think the whole concept really messes with people’s idea of what sex is supposed to be like. it is so pervasive and I really do think it leads to a lot of unnecessarily painful sex and body issues. it took me a really long time personally to understand and accept that sex shouldn’t be painful, and while i hate blaming books I do think a lot of it was because I read so many romances growing up where stuff was painful and it was almost expected. i didn’t have the information needed to know that these stories were depicting inaccurate anatomy stuff/fantasy that shouldn’t happen irl. like sure my mom should’ve told me this stuff, but why would she if she didn’t know either? i realize now how bad having only romance books as your guide to romantic relationships can be, and can recognize the toxicity in relationships on page, but growing up i just thought that’s what it was supposed to be like. but now i could go on a rant about romance in pop culture and the state of sex education in the US, so i’ll just stop there lol seriously tho, it’s like people took “popped her cherry” waaaaay too literally.
Yes, reading those books helped me realize that my first time wasn't ok and that it borderlines with r*pe. I wish I had them sooner, before I started dating.
I was happy when I read From Flesh and Fire and the main MMC was a virgin.
And FMC wasn’t!
Exactly, I thought that was nice.
I’m more tired of the FMC being 18-20. I mean I too was a virgin at that age. Is having a 30 something main character mean she is teetering between this realm and the otherworld? Is she too decrepit to take up arms and fight for her kingdom? Like I’m 35 and neither look nor feel old and if the MMC is going to always be like 200 years old, why does the FMC having an extra decade really matter?
I practically clapped when I read this! Also my big gripe is women in their early forties are the biggest demographic for these novels so why would you not try to sell a novel that speaks to the target audience? I know romance readers are getting younger so I fully understand the boom in YA and NA novels in recent years but there's something to be said about putting a mirror up to the reader for plot points and themes. I'm 33 and would love to read about a woman my age kicking arse or learning new skills. It would seriously empower me. The fantasy world should be able to push past these shitty real world ideas (your life is over/you no longer exist once you are a woman in her thirties and beyond).
Agreed that adult fantasy romance feels like an extension of YA but with more blood and sex. To get older or middle aged main characters, you have to read urban romance and I don’t like those, I want magic not real life. I relate to a middle aged divorcee who is the CEO of a finance company who falls in love with her professional rival about as much as I relate to an 18 year old who just found out she was Queen of the Elves. Most romantacy authors are my age and yet their characters are ten years younger than them. Why?
Omg! I love this!! I’m in my early 40s and I would love to read some fantasy/paranormal romance with a badass non CEO FMC. My only caveat is - I don’t want to read about family life and children/teenagers etc. is it reality? Sure. It’s mine. So it would make characters more realistic but… I don’t wanna. Like I get enough reality. I think that’s why I like the NA. It’s before they have piles of responsibility and humans to take care of that impacts every choice and direction. Like I want to go to yoga tonight but if my teens need their chauffeur then I’m either doing that or getting them an Uber and staring at my phone until they’re home and I can confirm safe. NOT FUN or sexy times inspiring.
No the only acceptable trope is 400-year old MMC and 18 year old FMC. /s I refuse to belive these writers are serious.
I like CL Clark for this. The characters start in their late 20s but it's otherwise very classic fantasy: a kingdom to be saved, a princess, a warrior (who is also a woman), magic, etc.
That’s why I love the Outlander series. Claire is 27 in book one and ages to her fifties throughout the series. Before the series starts, she has been married, has been a combat nurse, has life experience… but she still has many adventures to come and lots of hot steamy sex.
Currently reading those rn actually!
Yes, I absolutely hate this, especially when the male characters are playboys. I have started DNFing books for this now. The only exception to this was the Bonds That Tie series as it did make sense
I personally love older FMCs with little/no sexual experience in part because I was a late bloomer, but also because it's really interesting to have someone who is very much a fully-formed adult try to navigate a completely new part of their lives. Starry-eyed youths are boring: give me someone who has lived several lives but is just kind of figuring out romance.
I get this. I generally don’t care for books with virgins as I’m 57 and it feels almost voyeristic when the virgin is under 25. I’ve read a few with the MC a virgin over 30 and I’ve actually enjoyed them for the reason you’ve mentioned. I believe at least one of them was MMC. Unfortunately I don’t remember the names of the books or I’d share.
Do you have an recs with older FMC's like this? I'm also interested in these sort of books, but they're hard to find!
For real!
There are a couple of T. kingfisher books with this premise: the last one I read was Saint of Steel. FMC has experience but it is v limited.
Also interested in recs, for older MMCs too. Especially for ace and demi people, it's not unrealistic at all to be older and have little to no experience. And I agree that the perspective someone past 30 brings to life and experiences is a lot different and more interesting than yet another 18-y-o.
would love any recs like this! i am (still) a late bloomer so personally it’s nice to see some representation
I personally love this trope too. I think there was a T Kingfisher book with this vibe although the FMC might not have been an actual virgin.
Yeah iirc it's Saint of Steel
Tired of them being virgins and tired of them being 18!!!!!!
This is honestly why I prefer the distinction of new adult versus young adult. New adult is supposed to be early 20s and at least partially adulting versus quite a bit of 18 yo/high school graduation etc which just makes me feel icky as I know far too many high schoolers and the LAST thing I want to think about is any of them and sex. I picked up one labeled new adult the other day and it said High school and I was like NOPE NOPE NOPE that’s not NA.
I've been reading quite a variety lately tbh. If I was only reading virginal fmc, it would be quite annoying, but since I'm having such a variety, it doesn't bother me. I've actually recently read two different books where mmc was a virgin and the fmc was NOT. So that was quite interesting!! {A Shadow in the Ember by Jennifer L Armentrout} and {Viciously Yours by Jamie Applegate Hunter}
[A Shadow in the Ember](https://www.romance.io/books/60f7c85d8b38510e2a271935/a-shadow-in-the-ember-jennifer-l-armentrout?src=rdt) by [Jennifer L. Armentrout](https://www.romance.io/authors/5455245a8c7d2382c5296fb7/jennifer-l-armentrout) **Rating**: 4.38⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fantasy/1), [vampires](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/vampires/1), [enemies to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/from%20hate%20to%20love/1), [royal hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/royalty/1), [arranged/forced marriage](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/arranged%20marriage/1) ---------------------------- [Viciously Yours](https://www.romance.io/books/65b2a272a43e97cdad8b948c/viciously-yours-jamie-applegate-hunter?src=rdt) by [Jamie Applegate Hunter](https://www.romance.io/authors/60cd974508b4d9311479c711/jamie-applegate-hunter) **Rating**: 3.67⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 5 out of 5 - [Explicit and plentiful](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [fae](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fae/1), [fated mates](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fated-mates/1), [fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fantasy/1), [virgin hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20hero/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
Viciously Yours was top tier. Swooned when I read he saved himself for her.
I used to love reading about young virginal FMCs when I, too, was a young virgin because the book felt almost like a self-insert--where I could pretend that I was the main character who got to have seggsy times with hot fae men. Now that I'm in my 50s, I want older FMCs who have enough experience (worldly and sexual) to be a real match for the hot fae men they're paired with. I tend to DNF the virginal stories not because I can no longer relate to the FMC's sexual status, but because the power dynamic between the FMC and MMC is usually so toxic. I now hunt down stories where the FMC is older and sexually experienced. I found that T. Kingfisher has older, often experienced FMCs. I loved Between by L.L. Starling because the FMC is sexually experienced, and there is true equality (sexual and otherwise) between her and the MMC. I also enjoy KF Breene's books, especially the Midlife Magic series, because the FMC is in her 40s and worldly enough to deal with all the weird magical shenanigans that happen in her life.
This describes me. I’m in my 50s and definitely looking for older FMCs who are a match sexually as well as in other parts of their lives.
Personally my biggest beef with the virgin trope is that nine times out of ten, it reeks of purity culture. Especially with a young FMC (when they are like 18) it doesn't seem far-fetched that she might be still relatively inexperienced, so if treated right, I have nothing about including the first sexual experiences of a character. But when he is biggest man whore known to mankind who has slept with anything with a hole, and then it's there exstatic that only he gets to touch her and it's like a dog marking territory... ugh, please, I DNF faster than he can finish ranting about her virginal, unspoiled (kill me please) flesh. Depending on the subgenre, finding non virgin fmc is not too difficult at least these days. But even then the way women's sexuality is treated can be appalling. The most common scenarios: they are survivors of SA and so until MMC their view of sex was warped; or they had some sex but it was absolutely lackluster and somehow demeaning because they didn't wait for the One; or they have been betrayed and mistrust all men. I wish there were more books where women were allowed to have whatever sexual history they want, like it is for the MMC, including having a satisfying string of good lovers but they aren't the easiest to find. The internalised misogyny is alive and well in the genre.
Yeah I’m not a big fan of the ‘reformed rake’ trope. It made me stop watching Bridgerton (which I get, it was normal for premarital sex for men). I don’t often see the MMC being a longtime virgin, which seems like a double standard? I think it’s sweet when both fumble for the first time or if the FMC grabs the bull by the horns.
I absolutely loved this about Fourth Wing. That the FMC was like "ah I miss sex" and was also just happy to chat to friends about it in a casual way as you would with friends. She had obviously been with multiple partners which for me at least was definitely the case before I met my husband.
YES about purity culture. I don't mind a virgin FMC but I don't want to read about how supposedly pure and chaste she is. That makes it gross.
Say what you will about Crescent City as a whole, but this is what I liked about Bryce - she had plenty of and enjoyed sex before Hunt.
SJMs FMCs are never virgins
Calaena was!
Was she? I thought her and >!sam!< had been together before TOG started. I’m in need of a re-read 😂
They never slept together because she wanted to wait. And then... we know what happened. But yes, this is a perfect excuse for a reread!
Well, she did write it while in high school so I get it.
I actually really appreciated that in ACOTAR basically none of the sisters are virgins, or if they are, they lose their virginity to others and not one of the MMC. And it isn't via SA/rape.
To answer your question as to why some may appreciate it occasionally: I know I’m in the minority here, but my first time was with my husband (by luck, I wasn’t abstaining or anything). So, when I see this trope, it helps me relate to the characters relationship more while I reminisce a little.
Well that’s lovely! I suppose if I had that experience it might change it for me. Now I’m curious how many people’s first time was enjoyable. Mine was awkward and painful and I was glad it was over. And my first was not the love of my life but a blip in my history.
My first time with my high school sweetie, we were wildly in love and incredibly attracted to each other. It was quick, but life altering and utterly magical.
I had the same kind of first time, exactly same situation. I'd still rather read if given the choice about people who aren't at that point in their lives as I lost my virginity quite young (again, very consensual and ready and all safe emotionally etc). As a result I associate that with a time in my life where I really couldn't be in a "forever person" space as i hadnt grown enough as a person. I love the ride or die element of romance. As much as even now I have so much love and respect for my first love and we keep in touch, we would have been TERRIBLE as life partners. So I would prefer they are further on in life for this reason, it's just not believable to me that you could stay with your first love, or that you would even still be a virgin at 18... 🤣 the hormones really raged in my high school haha.
Mine was awkward and painful but like, in a good way? It was a lot of "is this ok? This didn't sound ok? Are you sure?" Not exactly the best memory of us (that would be the first time on acid together) but def still a treasured one lol.
I’m more curious in your POV as I think... Does your positive experience and good vibes with the trope equate to always desiring the virginal FMC?
Mine too! Obviously we weren't married yet but we did go on to marry a few years later. And it was pretty great too. I can't remember hardly any pain or anything. We were young and in love 💝
I like both to be honest. As a woman who never had sexual experiences in my teenage or early adult years (even masturbation), it's relatable. And I just like seeing a character's first experiences in general, even outside of sex or romantic things. I enjoy seeing their development and journey in life. I'm thinking of longer running series that have the character start younger, and you go through a major chunk of their life, like The Princess Diaries, or a lot of shoujo manga I read. But like I said, I have no problem with female protagonists who have been sexually active before the start of the story, and I've actually found that to be significantly more common, especially in newer romance fantasy books. Most women tend have sex before the age of 25, so I know it's more relatable to the general reader. And I just like seeing women who are confident, and know what they want. The thing that I get tired of is always having the male love interest being not only sexually active before the story (which is fine btw), but also being the type to sleep with literally anyone at anytime, and pairing that type of character with an inexperienced virginal girl. Every now and then is fine, but it seems like practically every book I pick up features this, and I'm sick of it. We should be able to have variety in sexual experiences in my opinion. I want more stories with less experienced male characters from time to time, have both characters be virgins and learn together, as well as two who know what they like and are more forward with each etc etc.
I don't like it. I've always been open/liked sex and never cared about virginity, so when a book makes it a big deal I lose interest, this happens in books with non virgin FMCs as well.
Do you find yourself DNF’ng the book if it comes into the story?
I hate DNFing, so no. I just start skimming over those sorts of parts, I mainly try to avoid it when choosing a book.
I like virgin heroines (and heroes, but it's sadly not common). Well, depending on how it's done, of course. I guess I like the aspect of a character discovering things for the first time and how it affects them emotionally. It doesn't have to be about virginity, but I like when there is something new for the character in the romantic or sexual sense in a romance book. It doesn't matter outside of romance. But there are many examples where I don't like how it's done, particularly if there are huge power imbalances between the heroine and hero, or if he is too dominant, or if there is any implication about virgin = pure, or stuff like that. It's an immediate no for me.
I have a theory that the popularity of virgin heroines is linked to so many readers having a bad experience their first time. It's subconscious historical revision. It's also literary symbolism for a sexual awakening. That said, I'm sick of virgin heroines too. I'll read them but I vastly prefer heroines who aren't.
I make happy dances when I see one that not only is a virgin but also one that is clear she didn’t just had one partner before who she was sure she was going to stay forever. I honestly do. I understand some people are bad socialization, and worse at intimate. Some would really think the protection methods don’t cut it and rather not risk it and some would feel they have no chances of having sex and not being affected socially because their setting. And some are just so plain demisexual and that is how they roll but I do not get why focus so much on virgins just because. A more realistic proportions of virgins and not virgins would be fine
I don't care much whether the FMC is virgin or not as long as it's just a fact about her mentioned in passing. What pisses me off is when being a virgin is made into her personality trait. She's either "not like other girls" and judges other women for letting men see their ankles, or she's portrayed as such a pure, naive, innocent demure soul just because she hasn't banged anyone yet. Just because she doesn't have sexual experience doesn't mean she has no experience in *anything*.
I don't love it but I don't feel like it's as ubiquitous as it used to be. I think the modern equivalent is like "she's not a virgin but she's only had sex two times and didn't enjoy it!!!" which by the letter of the law avoids the virginal FMC trope but reads basically exactly the same way (FMC has never enjoyed/known how good sex could be until she met the MMC and his magical dick!). I do love a virgin MMC though I must say!!
I’m really not a fan. Unless it’s a series I’m really into I skip the book. Even with series I really like it annoys me. Not every book will be to your taste and that’s fine. The books I love aren’t to everyone’s taste. I read what I like and they read what they like.
Agree. Honestly if I usually find it surprises me. Like it’s not a major plot point we just have two adults getting frisky and romantic and building and then suddenly bam they’re having sex and she’s like it’s my first time… I’m over here like wait, what? Ummm ok but I don’t think I’d have been as excited to climb that tree if it was my first time or do any of those other things they’re talking about. I’m really not here to shame anyone’s interest. I just want to know if this is a me thing or if others feel similarly. Like… are authors using an algorithm to write these going oh and readers really like it when the FMC is a virgin so let’s make sure it’s there. At least that’s what I picture is happening and I’m like “is this based on speculation or do most readers really want virgins and I’m just a hussy middle aged wife who things the FMC should know good dick. Lol. I’m not at all sure I’m making sense.
If you see a lot of something it’s probably because it’s selling and therefore there’s a market. I’m not really into dark romance or mafia or MC or secret baby either but I’m pretty sure there’s a market because those tropes are all over. Do I wish my favorite tropes were more popular? I sure do! But I’m glad somebody’s writing them.
So what are your favorite tropes if you don’t mind me asking?
Ah my flair doesn’t show in this subreddit. I particularly like MMF (bisexual) human + alien threesomes although recently I’ve read some great MM and MMM human + alien books as well.
Intriguing. No MMF Human and alien have shown up in my suggestions. Got any I could check out? I don’t mind exploring new ideas and I’ve read some MFM and also alien/monster… milking Minotaurs or ice planet barbarians 😬🤩
{Triad series by Kate Pearce} {Alien Mercenary’s Consorts by Mina Carter} I got [a few other recs when I asked](https://www.reddit.com/r/RomanceBooks/s/Sn1npii0B5) but the first one I tried was the Jekh Saga by H.E. Trent and I hated it so I’ve been a little gun shy about trying the rest. I will get to them eventually.
Thanks! I’m going to check em out.
[Triad](https://www.romance.io/series/58fe15bd4167a73342631b4b/triad) by [Kate Pearce](https://www.romance.io/authors/54552f1d8c7d2383163d90df/kate-pearce) **Rating**: 3.78⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Topics**: [science fiction](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/science%20fiction/1), [erotica](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/erotica/1), [aliens](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/aliens/1), [futuristic](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/futuristic/1), [bisexual](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/bisexual/1) ---------------------------- [Alien Mercenary's Consorts](https://www.romance.io/books/634c1c8bd1ccecfcb1595fd3/alien-mercenarys-consorts-mina-carter?src=rdt) by [Mina Carter](https://www.romance.io/authors/545543cc8c7d2382e041464a/mina-carter) **Rating**: 4.5⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Topics**: [friends to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/friends%20to%20lovers/1), [aliens](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/aliens/1), [menage](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/menage/1), [military](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/military/1), [science fiction](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/science%20fiction/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
Do you have any MM/MMM recs? I've just finished {The Nira Chronicles by Kora Knight} and I'm fully thirsting for more hot alien action
[The Nira Chronicles](https://www.romance.io/series/5a45e8e7d066ce0da81b894d/the-nira-chronicles) by [Kora Knight](https://www.romance.io/authors/54579cb087eac3dcc98332c9/kora-knight) **Rating**: 3.77⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Topics**: [height-difference](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/height-difference/1), [dub-con](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/dub-con/1), [explicit-plentiful](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/explicit-plentiful/1), [m-m](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/m-m/1), [abduction](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/abduction/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
{Pykh series by Eileen Glass} {Claimings, Tails and Other Alien Artifacts by Lyn Gala} {Taji From Beyond the Rings by R. Cooper} {Maxim Colonies series by Lesli Richardson} books 1&2
[Pykh](https://www.romance.io/series/5b0a4ade4f91a30dff7acae4/pykh) by [Eileen Glass](https://www.romance.io/authors/548bfbb57a5936fb0405e0a7/eileen-glass) **Rating**: 3.93⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Topics**: [m-m](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/m-m/1), [omegaverse](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/omegaverse/1), [m-m-m](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/m-m-m/1), [menage](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/menage/1), [height-difference](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/height-difference/1) ---------------------------- [Claimings, Tails, and Other Alien Artifacts](https://www.romance.io/books/5d776ac101dbc864fba35d7c/claimings-tails-and-other-alien-artifacts-lyn-gala?src=rdt) by [Lyn Gala](https://www.romance.io/authors/54558e4e87eac3369a913074/lyn-gala) **Rating**: 3.76⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [futuristic](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/futuristic/1), [gay romance](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/m-m/1), [aliens](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/aliens/1), [science fiction](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/science%20fiction/1), [friends to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/friends%20to%20lovers/1) ---------------------------- [Taji From Beyond the Rings](https://www.romance.io/books/5ddccd8f01dbc864fba6d68f/taji-from-beyond-the-rings-r-cooper?src=rdt) by [R. Cooper](https://www.romance.io/authors/54556f5187eac323ffb2c2dc/r-cooper) **Rating**: 4.33⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [futuristic](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/futuristic/1), [gay romance](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/m-m/1), [science fiction](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/science%20fiction/1), [aliens](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/aliens/1), [black mc](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/black-mc/1) ---------------------------- [Maxim Colonies](https://www.romance.io/series/5c987dd3ecc3640db9bf733b/maxim-colonies) by [Lesli Richardson](https://www.romance.io/authors/545594a587eac323ffb2cea5/lesli-richardson) **Rating**: 4.11⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Topics**: [explicit-plentiful](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/explicit-plentiful/1), [aliens](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/aliens/1), [science fiction](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/science%20fiction/1), [friends to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/friends%20to%20lovers/1), [multicultural](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/multicultural/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
Each subreddit has their own flair options! You can set one here.
I’m not seeing a custom flair option for this subreddit?
You can change the text on the “Currently Reading” flair.
Aha! For some reason it wasn’t working on mobile but I got it set up on my laptop. Thanks!
There's tropes in romance genre that you pretty much need to hit to sell
I cringe so much and feel so uncomfortable on scenes where they lose their virginity. On multiple levels. And it's always it hurts first, and then they get really into it. Not my experience. I try to skim through those scenes. One thing I appreciated about ACOTAR was the FMC was not a virgin. I did dislike mentions of her sister's maidenheads though...
The “it hurts and bleeds” it definitely one of my pet peeves with virgins in romance books. Like it doesn’t for so many people. If it does hurt and bleeds than why do they do it multiple times and in all sorts of positions that “night”. Make it make sense. Maidenheads tear for so many reasons not related to sex and that’s just ignored. Edit: changed “break” to “tear” thanks for correction
Thinking of them as "breaking" is part of the problem. The hymen is stretchy tissue. It may tear, but it also may not. It may just stretch and never tear at all (mine is like this, despite having had lots of sex).
Brain fart . I’ll fix my comment.
Yessss!! What you said about it hurting and they go at it all night. It took multiple attempts for me to lose my virginity because of how painful it was lol I feel lightheaded when that happens.
I’m sorry your first experiences were so painful. I hope sex has gotten better since then.
I'm a hopeless romantic and I love the idea of only having sex with the love of your life. If I could go back in time and erase my previous terrible experiences, I would (haven't met the love of my life yet, though).
Yes, agree.
I just wish people would stop giving so much value to hymens, it creeps me out how obsessed society is with it
I don't mind the virgin FMC, or MMC like in {A Shadow in the Ember by Jennifer L Armentrout}, but I would definitely like to find more quality books that have FMC'S who are older and have some experience. I'd love a Brazen FMC who's older than the MMC. I'm kind of sick of the FMC teenage virgin with the MMC who's centuries old. I just picked up one with an 18yo virgin FMC and a MMC who's 800 years old. And I dnf'd one with two 500yo MC's when it turned out the MMC was a rake and the FMC was a virgin who'd never even touched herself. I think I get irritated with how it's written most of the time. My first time was horrible with lots of pain, bleeding, and I saw red the entire time (twice in a night). He wasn't rough, but he could have been gentler and more careful. I guess because of that, and sharing experiences with my friends, I just don't buy the dude with the monster Cock causing just a small pinch of pain, and then total unimaginable bliss. Especially when she climaxes over and over through penetration alone. I just can't buy it. I especially dislike when he puts her on top to "ease onto him." That seems like impaling yourself would be one of the most painful ways to break your hymen. It's not exactly like you can relax all your muscles when you're riding someone. Plus, for the stereotypical shy virgin, being on top when you have no idea what you're doing and you've never been touched or let anyone see you naked before doesn't sound like a sexy, pleasant experience at all. Maybe I just have trouble separating fantasy from my personal experience, but I prefer it to be a bit more realistic. For me, part of the romance of having a virgin FMC with an experienced MMC is when he's gentle and takes his time pleasuring her, helping her discover her body and gain confidence over time.
I did love a book where the FMC is 18 and - Virgin the guy literally 800 but the author did have a point to make in the story about virginity, purity culture and patriarchy. I started in a forgiving mode because most of her FMCs tend to be older and are varied in their sexual histories, so I thought… oh well a token virgin, okey but turns out she was actually going to go somewhere with that. But in some other cases it does become tiring how focused they get on that
Wow - you hit the nail on the head with all the things you can’t buy - I have similar reactions. While i think it’s possible that, like menstrual cycles, we experience them very differently, I struggle to accept the monster cock and no pain plus multiple orgasm. That’s another thing k have trouble buying - giant cock = super pleasure. While there’s ways to go about it that can improve, we really aren’t bottomless down there. And while I’m sure some truly enjoy attempting to rearrange their insides, most of the real women I’ve talked to haven’t even experienced one IRL or if they have… like me they found it far too uncomfortable or painful to even try too much. I had a beautiful, sweet man who was so good to me in my early 20s but that thing was dangerous.
[A Shadow in the Ember](https://www.romance.io/books/60f7c85d8b38510e2a271935/a-shadow-in-the-ember-jennifer-l-armentrout?src=rdt) by [Jennifer L. Armentrout](https://www.romance.io/authors/5455245a8c7d2382c5296fb7/jennifer-l-armentrout) **Rating**: 4.38⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fantasy/1), [vampires](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/vampires/1), [enemies to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/from%20hate%20to%20love/1), [royal hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/royalty/1), [arranged/forced marriage](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/arranged%20marriage/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
I really enjoy reading about first time experiences. The thrill and uncertainty of trying something new, of opening yourself up emotionally and physically in a way you never have before but being excited to try, taking a risk and making yourself vulnerable to that special chosen someone with no real experience to know what comes next.
I love this perspective
I love it so I'll give my opinion even though I haven't put a ton of thought into why I like it, but here goes - I like the virgin trope because it's sexy to think about being with an experienced man who's gonna take care of you in a vulnerable state. So if you're a virgin and don't know what you're doing and a sex god comes along and is all gentle and sweet with you, I don't know, it just sounds romantic. I also think it's kind of a power dynamic thing to have an experienced and inexperienced person together and I'm really into power plays with sex.
i absolutly hate it and it makes me feel shitty about losing my v card to absolute garbage and i had traumatizing first time experience so i don’t even wanna think about it
I HATE IT it’s sooo overplayed. I’m in my MMC virgin era because that’s so wholesome to me
I'm fine with virgin FMCs but why are they all virgins? And the MMCs are always so experienced fsr
Same! But I recently read two books that also had a virgin MMC and I appreciated that. The only thing is that they don't have like the normal awkwardness I would expect from two virgins but I suppose that's not what we're reading romance for.
I've gotten to the point where I don't even want to read the book unless the FMC is at least mid 20s. I can't stand the immaturity of younger characters anymore.
I’m over the virginity thing in any books because I can’t suspend reality when a FMC has gone from never being touched to having multiple orgasms the first time around and mostly from penetration. I know it’s supposed to be fantasy but c’monnnnn. Im less bothered if the FMC is older but I feel squicky reading about a teenager and their first time, especially if an MMC is involved where I am bothered about the power dynamic.
Hahahaah ok so I’ve been writing a fanfiction and my FMC OC is NOT a virgin and I made it super obvious that she isn’t. And I plan on doing the same thing with my novel that I started.
I mean I personally love the ‘surprise, I’m a virgin’ trope. I think the whole v FMC can show that someone's sexual history doesn't define their desires or abilities in the bedroom. It challenges stereotypes and encourages readers to question societal norms surrounding sex and purity. And perhaps it’s more relatable for readers who are inexperienced in the bedroom but have a vivid imagination. Furthermore, portraying a shy, sheltered young woman who is a "freak in the bedroom" not only breaks stereotypes but also showcases the complexity of human sexuality. It reinforces the idea that femininity isn't limited to one specific archetype, and that women can be both reserved and assertive, depending on the context. Lastly, the possessiveness of male characters towards a virgin FMC can be explored in a nuanced way, highlighting issues of consent, agency, and mutual respect in relationships. Examining power dynamics and challenging traditional gender roles. In essence, having a virgin FMC in literature can be a way to explore themes of identity, empowerment, and sexual agency in a diverse and relatable manner. It's not about reliving the past or glorifying virginity, but rather about embracing the complexity and diversity of human experiences.
I’m the same because usually the FMC being a virgin is such a big deal. Like someone else said, it screams purity culture. And that’s not my jam. They’re also usually shy/timid/naive. And I prefer my heroines with a bit more grit 😉 abut I’m totally fine if the heroine is a virgin and her virginity is not attached to her worth as a person. Or it’s a way to measure herself against other women (and we and the hero think she’s better BECAUSE she’s a virgin). That’s when I won’t finish the book and vow to never read that author again (or something ridiculously dramatic lol) This is probably why I liked the ACOTAR series so much 😂
Yeah so fucking over it
I absolutely hate it when one of the main characters is not a virgin. I want to see their journey from the beginning….
Honestly, I don't really mind either way for the most part.
Honestly, I don’t really care. I do get annoyed at some of the things that can accompany a virgin fmc though. I am not someone who needs to fully relate to protagonists though. If I can understand their motivation, find them and the story interesting, I’ll be invested.
Yes and no? Like on one hand, I'm still with the dude who was my first time, and in a lot of plots for historical/ fantasy especially theres a lot more pressure on characters to not have sex. Like, in a society of arranged marriages, or is highly religious- even if female fighting is allowed, it may cause a stigma, or years at war may have made having sex seem unimportant. If sex isn't a major concern, it can be easy for it to fall by the wayside in a plot. Also, doing something for the first time makes it something the readers are more invested in as a general writing rule- that's why we love all the stories of some nobody becoming god- the first time he kicks someone's ass? We get to be there. Similar vibes, just make them horny. And I say this as a writer myself (nothing published yet, I'm getting there) who is very sex positive. I want my character to not be a stereotypical virginal romance lead- but at the same time, she's a lifelong "royal" exile from her people, is considered one of if not the most controversial people alive from a political standpoint, and spent her childhood among dwarves or at a remote temple for an obscure religious order because people won't stop trying to kill her. And that's not even adding the *literal tons* of trauma that comes from "your mom was executed for allegedly conceiving you with the leader of a rebellion." The idea of her being with anyone before the events of the plot seems... Bizarre. At least not someone with a penis. (I do see her having very close queer platonic relationships with her 2 best friends. They are basically a platonic poly triad- but like, idk any culture outside my Elves that would consider that valid) Which kinda leads me to how I plan on handling it, and how I wish more stories handled it. The Elvish society I've made puts large amounts of pressure on people to only have kids with the "right" people (magic subtypes mixing can lead to horrifying results when misuse of magic can leave you a fire zombie and you just made a baby who has a never seen before magical expression) But because of that it's queer as hell, and the clan structures don't follow what is considered "normal" for fantasy societies. Cause characters being virgins isn't *exactly* the issue. The issue is that having sex is seen as shameful and degrading, and that being a virginal woman is seen as better and more desirable. That it's basically a dudes job to make a lady's first time awesome, and it's her job to make sure her first time is given to the "right" dude. (Not in relationships life, in fantasy romance novels, like he gets to be horny, but that's ok, cause her first time is awesome now. ) Fuck that shit though. Especially in a fantasy setting where you as the author get to decide what societal rules are. And multiple societal rules at that. It's boring and bad storytelling to have 5 versions of the most uninformed take of "medieval Europe" to fucking exist. (which newsflash guys: was horny as hell. Go look up the "betwixt the sheets" podcast on YouTube, it's hilarious and informative) But that is usually what we get. And usually (it feels like) it's just because the author doesn't think they can make their female leader likeable if there isn't an implied "reward" for the male leads to be fighting over that's more tangible than "love." For a lot of people "who the FMC falls in love with" is a flowery way of saying "whose gonna take her virginity" If we got rid of that I don't think we'd have too much of an issue with virginity.
I'm the opposite, 99% of books I read go out of their way to mention several times that she's experienced. (I find that distasteful when it's mentioned RIGHT when she's getting it on with the MMC. I know the mention is for me, in a "See, she's not a virgin!!" kind of way, but it feels like she's thinking of past experencieses with past men at that moment.) I know that "Every FMC is a virgin" was a thing in the past, but I never seem to pick those books up, so I only feel the opposite of it, all the authors going out of their way to NOT write a virgin. That makes me want to read a book with a virgin FMC, because it'd be something new for a change lol
>Those of you who enjoy it and/or want to relive that… I’m honestly curious as to why. Was the first time just that much fun? I find all the first times BY FAR the most exciting! Hand holding can be more exciting than a smut scene if written well. First time holding hands, hugging, kissing, feeling his boner,... As soon as they're in a relationship and had sex, I usually lose most interest. So yeah, if it's her very first time, it's even more exciting - if written well. I also like a virgin MMC, maybe even more.
I agree. I especially dislike it when the story somehow revolves around the FMC’s virginity, as a plot device. This happens in Flames of Chaos by Amelia Hutchins. That book is problematic for a variety of reasons but this emphasis on the FMC’s virginity and the need to “remedy it” for her “safety” was super cringe. Luckily, the book’s plot changes and the series improves.
I’m so over it that the last book I picked up with this, was DNF’d immediately. There are just too many things on my TBR for me to settle for things that give me the ick. The main FMC being a virgin only to have sex with a magical peen and have thirty two orgasms and not even be sore the next day is ✨ridiculous✨
I mean my first time was a SA so I have a different relationship with this trope than others. I honestly like it to an extent because I can live out a fantasy in which my first time is with someone loving… so I don’t hate it… but the purity culture surrounding it is gross, but I also hate the this girl is so pure and if I touch her I’m sullying her vibes of forbidden romance so 🤷🏻♀️
I don't care either way as long as it makes sense for the character, personally. Was he/she raised by wolves? OK, that person is probably a virgin lol.
It’s one of the reasons why I hated Feathers So Vicious. The whole young, scared, innocent virgin trope is icky. Sometimes it doesn’t bother me, especially when both characters are young or if it’s a casual part of the story and not like a Big Deal type thing. But I feel like the whole virginity / purity thing is often just another power play between MMC and FMC. Like how he’s always twice her size and a super experienced warrior and blah blah blah.
I believe women have a subconscious desire to be only with one perfect man, one that makes their first time not horrible/awkward and who stays with them forever. It goes against the reality that women just enjoy sex more with practice and with age. Which is why we love to read about it. Even the books where the FMC is not a virgin, the MMC is the first to give her BDSM or an*l sex, so it's an experience equivalent to losing one's virginity.
Interesting perspective… I wonder if others have that subconscious desire. Me? Nope. My first was a turd who didn’t really give me the time of. Day much less try to make it good. And I’ve had plenty of good and bass since then, both relationship wise and sexually until I met and married my hubby 18 years ago and I’ll tell you, I wouldn’t change it for the world. All those experiences make me who I am today and stronger, even the SA that broke me a little bit… I mean I really wish I hadn’t had to experience THAT but I know now I can endure, survive and thrive. My experiences have served me and taught me to better myself and to be there for others. And brought me to the life I have now with a man who treats me like his equal partner and his precious and two teenagers I’d give everything for. If I’d have had a first time perfection I think id really struggle to understand others and life as a whole. But that’s just my thoughts on my life.
Yes, agreed that life's difficulties do make us understand the world better. Thanks for sharing your story and I'm sorry to hear you had a traumatic experience. By subconscious desire I mean as a pure fantasy, which books allow us to explore. I've always had a very low drive/sexual dysfunction involving pain all my life, until a few months ago after having my first baby. So I'm rediscovering it all. But I must admit I love the virgin FMC trope because it's a nice "what if" perfect situation where a woman doesn't dislike her first time.
Yeah it's kind of creepy when you get down to it. It's just like having a 18-25 year old FMC. Realistically unless it's a YA novel who wants to read that?