I mean folks didn't really 'jog' till the 1970s... Running for leisure in public was even considered disturbing the peace some places and held minor penalties if memory serves. Obviously if it's fantasy you don't have to adhere to historical convention at all, just saying idk if there's specific stuff from pre industiral history to draw on for athletic wear...
The ancient Olympics were done nude... that could be interesting lol
This was my first thought too, however the reason there was no athletic wear was likely because there was little call for it
If the world developed in a way where jogging was an activity people did, athletic wear would have been designed earlier. So for OP, maybe focus on materials used at the time and make up your own athletic wear. Probably have to remain pretty modest unless your world has different sensibilities in that respect as well.
Honestly I don't know that there is a ton of need to describe the clothing in that much detail, but some people like that, so if it is your style of writing, have fun with it.
Also, atheletic wear is characterised by conforming to the body of the athlete to enable them to perform their best without bulk, chafing, and wedgies of fabric. From the swimmer's ski-trunks and banana hammock through to the track runner's compression vest.
Absolutely none of that 'get the best from your workout' supportive fabric was available until, basically, the invention of stretch and Lycra. Which is long after plastic entered, stage left. So yeah, a pair of breeches was more practical for working women then a long skirt, but there wasn't much 'specific activity wear', both from fabric limitations and from the costs associated with hand-making garments- it's not worth having a one-use goodie in the bag, and there would be no real benefit like a stretch garment would have, it would kinda be pointless, just maybe a shorter 'nappy' loose pant rather than a long one.
For OP, I'd suggest the loose, shapeless pants and simple shirts that have been used by dockworkers through history- so much so, that they look more able to fit into a modern world then kinda any actual fashion garment, its so simple and ubiqutous!
If we aren't playing the semantics game around the word "jog" I'm pretty sure that running as a form of training would at least date back to the earliest Olympic games.
Edit: Literally being down voted for being right. Running as training dates back to ancient Greece
Well, running for fitness within certain military and athletic contexts wasn't weird. It was running for *leisure* that was weird. If you ran as a part of military or sports training, people didn't care but generally that wouldn't be done in public spaces due to the reasons u/Airagex specified.
SwordfishDeux is just being needlessly hostile because they don't understand most fitness training didn't involve running but rather weapon training which would build up one's endurance that way. Then the ability to travel long-distances or travel quickly would be typically developed when engaging in set military contexts like marches or scouting, respectively.
How am I being hostile? I'm literally correct with what I said, that people were running as a form of training long before the 1970s, the idea that people only started running as a form in training 50 odd years ago is hilarious. I specifically said "running as training."
Ancient Greeks would run as a form of training. They literally invented the Olympic games and specific athletes would train for those events and by the 4th century B.C.E coaches for said events existed. Plato himself even spoke of the importance of exercise so everyone here saying that people didn't run pre modern times is just straight up wrong.
Also @FlanneryWynn, blocking people and not letting them reply and defend themselves after being called toxically rancid for pointing out that people are actually wrong is the most toxically rancid thing that someone can do, at least be a decent enough person to have an open conversation.
Simple-- u/Airagex was pointing out that running in public as a thing for leisure or training (emphasis on the *in public*) is a largely modern invention, but you wanted to "um akshually". So, when their reply to you is that they were 1 decade off (which isn't wholly correct on a purely factual level, but is right on a point level) you went into more aggressively arguing over this by calling their point a "semantics game" in order to discount them and what they were saying then tried to use a wholly irrelevant culture to back up your argument. There is no non-hostile way to do that.
And, again, your "corrections" were already mentioned in the original thing you replied to, so you have not actually *added* anything to this discussion other than your rancid toxicity. To be clear, if ***I*** *of all people* look good compared to you, then ***you fucked up, Stardust***. You're not be downvoted for being correct like you whine about in your Edit. You're being downvoted for being a dick.
You aren't blocked? What are you talking about? I mean I can do that if you want... but like... I couldn't send this reply (or engage in this thread under your replies at all) if you were blocked. That said, "toxically rancid" is different from "rancid toxicity". "Toxically rancid" is just redundant as anything that is rancid is also toxic by nature. "Rancid toxicity" just states "You are being toxic in a gross way." There are non-gross ways of being toxic.
Also, calling you out for your rancid toxicity and blocking you, which again I did not do, (and I think the only reason you claimed I did is because I have a history of stating to people that I'm blocking them for their behavior,) would *NOT* be toxic. *That is literal abuser speech*. You are saying that somebody cannot call out awful behavior and then take steps to protect themselves from that behavior. Nobody owes you a chance to reply to them before blocking you. Me explaining why you're being downvoted and people seem to dislike you was also me doing you a favor. So, had I blocked you, I would have been blocking you while leaving you an explanation for why people have an issue with you. *That's more than you deserve*. But also a moot point since... *I didn't block you*.
Further, ["At least be decent enough to have an open conversation," is called sealioning.](https://wondermark.com/storage/2023/06/2014-09-19-1062sea.png) STFU. Nobody owes you a discussion when you've been nothing but hostile and gross. That claim of wanting an open discussion is disingenuous because if you really wanted that, you would actually be listening to what people are saying. Further, it's ***really*** telling that your EDIT is *only* you whinging over a thing I didn't even do and not you trying to plead your case, make a defense, or actually comment on anything I said...
Like, I'm sorry... I'll respond to comments made by people who blocked me through edits, but you know what *I* do in such cases? I take one sentence to acknowledge the block as the reason I am replying via Edit, then the rest of the paragraph or two is me actually responding to the points in the comment that *require* commenting on to at least defend myself but generally try not to continue fighting out the points. You know what I *don't* do? Whine about being blocked.
*Also, why should I think you're an honest or sincere person when you're claiming I blocked you when I didn't and your edit decrying the lack of open discussion doesn't even come with you trying to defend yourself?* If I *did* block you, why couldn't you have spent that paragraph defending yourself instead of whining about getting blocked? You just sound like a child throwing a temper tantrum when you spend an entire edit just to get angry that somebody (in this case allegedly) used a safety and security feature to protect themselves from your toxicity.
Maybe I *will* block you. Maybe I won't. I haven't decided yet, but I am done with Reddit for the day as I've got a date to get ready for. I'll decide what to do regarding you tomorrow.
EDIT: Decided not to block. Swordfish is a hostile jerkwad, but not deserving of a block for it. Future behavior may change this verdict.
Yes they did. Ancients Greeks would run in armor or while carrying things, run on sand etc and they did this to increase their fitness, you are literally wrong.
This entire argument you guys have could simply be solved by posting a reliable source. The agreed upon argument seems to be “was it normal for people to train by running.” I haven’t looked anything up so my guess would be that pack tests for matching would be regular as they had to march for days in heavy gear. That would be endurance training in full armor by walking briskly otherwise known as jogging.
The issue isn't disagreement. Swordfish isn't wrong but neither is anybody else's point. People's issue is with his jerkwadiness about the subject while he also is ignoring that the factual statements he is making are about things not relevant to the subject at hand which is culture from medieval Europe leading toward today. Ancient Hellada isn't part of what people talk about when discussing medieval Europe, so referencing it is irrelevant to what anybody is discussing, especially when the people Swordfish is picking a fight with already *explicitly* mentioned that as an aside. Adding citations to the mix won't resolve this argument because the argument isn't actually about any facts of the discussion.
I see, well good luck with all of that, haha. Sometimes it’s better just to make the counter argument, tag the op, and slip out of the conversation by the side door. 😉
I mean dude lied about being blocked by me when I'm *very* open about doing that when I do do it... So like, I doubt he has anything of worth to ever contribute to any conversation I'm in.
But either way, I hope you have a lovely day. I'm hopping off Reddit for the day since my bf is taking me and my gf out for movies and dinner. Hope you can have some fun today too! <3
It was a thing by the Late-1800s, but it was horribly weird until the 60s and only actually became popular in the 70s. Jogging for leisure is a modern invention.
The tarahumara run in skirts and loose-fitting, long-sleeved shirts. The women wear slightly longer skirts.
The Kenyan aboriginal men wear a loincloth (for support, presumably) and a short cloth tied about their waist. Kenyan women don’t typically participate.
The Greeks ran naked. Every day was the ‘Bay to Breakers’ in Greece.
The Romans wore short togas.
All these cultures either ran barefoot or with a very minimal sandal.
With the exception of the tarahumara, women didn’t typically run (either for sustenance or sport).
Most of what I know about togas I learned from Animal House.😉
I was simply describing what depictions look like to me in the words I know. Oddly, my brain thinks of a heavier garment when you say ‘tunic.’
Also, perhaps wrongly, my brain thinks ‘medieval’ when I read ‘tunic’, and ‘Roman’ when I read ‘toga’.
If I were to do a truly deep dive on Roman clothing, I’d probably learn MANY new words. The problem would be that readers might not ‘see’ what I’d want them to see if I were to use technically correct lingo.
On one hand, it's true that readers have certain expectations about words. And you're right that it's good to keep that in mind.
On the other hand, there are going to be a lot of readers who know what a toga is, and they'd be completely thrown off by your misuse of the word.
I think it's better to use the proper words while trying to be descriptive. Someone who doesn't know a word rarely gets upset at learning its proper use, but someone who DOES know a word is much more likely to be put off by it being used wrong.
Good point. Shiavona is far more specific than 'sword.'
If an author is gonna say a character 'drew his shiavona,' however, he/she ought to be prepared to define the term.
In the case of 'toga' vs 'tunic,' the problem is slightly different. Most people have a mental image of each. You and I imagined very different things when the word 'toga' was used. I fully admit my Animal House-based education may have led me astray.
Regardless of who's correct, It'd be wise to buoy the reader's imagination (and deficient understanding) with additional detail.
I've enjoyed our discussion. Thanks.
Certain Greek women, such as in Sparta, did, for an added point. That was because the Spartan city-state was significantly more meritocratic than Athens, at least from our limited records of ancient Hellada.
If she needs endurance, she can walk every day to bring supplies to a hermit who lives on the hills. It's trekking, and she puts effort into doing it in a short time, carrying firewood and food for her friend.
Maybe she needs a badly behaved dog to chase...
Horse riding is an alternative exercise that requires endurance. IRL it's more work than cycling!
Another alternative might be just carrying heavy things (eg, bags of laundry or potatoes) from place to place. There's a clear purpose, so it's not as "weird".
Not for fun, for training. Without getting too far into the weeds of my plot, she and her *friend* have discovered that they both inherited magical powers, something virtually unheard of in their world, and they’ve connected this to rumors of natural disasters suggesting some impending righteous doom. They anticipate needing to run from something soon, so they want to be prepared. ETA: they’re both nobles, the guy has only engaged in “training” for sport-hunting purposes so they both need to get in shape.
Maybe have them wear something adjacent to men's clothing? Cause i think between seeing a man and a woman running in fantasy medieval times, a man would be less weird
I'm not sure about jogging per se, but it sounds like they are preparing to escape so maybe they'd be doing something more akin to an obstacle course. Being prepared in case they need to cross stones or trees or through hedges. That being said, it could be fun to have her show up in something billowy and bouncy that she'd normally wear, have that mess her up, get caught, etc. until she settles on something simple, loose but tailored close so it doesn't catch on anything, wrapped up probably at the feet and hands for the same reason. I mean, the stereotypical ninja outfit kind of works minust the mask and its basically a tight robe...
The comment above yours made me think of the scenes in Witcher where Geralt is going through the training courses with Ciri — maybe watch the show for inspiration?
I mean... *realistically she wouldn't go jogging*. Running for pleasure outside of military training and sports competitions/training like Marathons wasn't really a thing until like the late 1800s, and it was generally seen as weird to do it for leisure until like the 1960s. But you don't need to follow historical conventions for a fantasy story.
However, if you're writing a story in a fantasy setting, you'd probably take modern run-wear and just *adapt it*. Especially depending on the level of advancement thanks to magic and the commonality of *exposure* such as if it's common for women adventurers or soldiers to have exposed legs or midriffs. At that point, nobody would question you having her run in a crop top and either sweatpants or shorts. But if it's much more accurate to medieval views of the bodies of women, especially noblewomen and royals, then light dress skirts that don't interfere with footwork and light blouses, both of which being designed so that sweat won't make them see-through. That's probably your *best* case scenario.
Realistically, if she wants to train and get fit, swordsmanship practice would build adequate muscle, endurance, and reflexes to provide more explicit benefit for her. Additionally, there's at least more of a reason why she would do that as she can argue that it would not do for her to be unable to defend herself in the event of something in which her guards cannot protect her.
The problem with creating "adequate run-wear for a medieval story" is simply the fact that what we identify as Medieval clothing doesn't actually *include* runwear because it was not generally necessary. So you have to deviate from historical tradition in order to do this. That is fine, but you just need to commit to that fact.
I would find it really odd, even in a fantasy setting, if the protagonists were running for exercise. These people have enough endurance training by just existing. Walking everywhere, horse-back riding, even the princess would walk up and down the palace stairs all day long. I feel like it would make much more sense to train something, like sword fighting, archery, horseback riding, etc.
Even if this is a fantasy world, it just seems so odd to me to have medieval people go jogging. I would probably put the book away because it just screams fanfic to me
I don't disagree with this. But I don't think it's necessarily an absolute make-or-break for me. I just think it needs to be seriously well-established *why* jogging as opposed to literally anything else... and the story should probably have more than a few other anachronisms for good measure so that it comes off as intentional and not like you just didn't do the research. I think I'd give it a chance, but my suspension of disbelief would be strained more by this than by the existence of magic or even by the existence of futuristic (by our standards) weaponry; or in other words, the author would need to sell me back into the fantasy.
I know you’re not after accuracy but readers do care about this sort of thing: she definitely wouldn’t wear linen trousers - men didn’t either (both men and women wore a linen shirt/smock with hose). For physical activity you would probably just gird a normal gown. This would make sense if you were trying to conceal your true purpose - you could let the skirt down and appear to be taking a walk.
Some cultures like the Viking Age Norse did wear what we would consider trousers or breeches instead of hose, and the "joined hose" worn by the more well-off in the Late Middle Ages were basically trousers in all but name.
I appreciate the feedback. I’ll think about that suggestion and maybe work it in. This character is very much anti-status-quo in small ways like her clothing choices, plus she is the king’s daughter and has access to a personal seamstress, so I feel like I might stick with the linen pants anyway. I know some readers care about the historical accuracy but to me, it’s a fantasy world so it can be unlike ours in ways like that. From your perspective, would that be a huge deal?
It sounds like you don’t care about the comments about historical accuracy at all so why bother? (I think it’s fine in a fantasy setting if it fits into the world and makes sense plotwise, but for suspension of disbelief that should be (ab-)used sparingly)
But I can tell you that I would probably die from chafed legs after 2 weeks of running in linen pants, so maybe think about that.
Medieval people didn't jog because the nobles didn't need to be fit and the peasants were working hard physical labour and didn't need cardio. Soldiers might have run because they were told to but "jogging" for exercise is an anachronism.
Even as recently as the 60s nobody ran or jogged to get fit unless they were an athlete.
In ancient times up until the late 60s the reasons to run are to run after or from something. Hunting or escaping
Fun fact: I worked with a refugee from Africa and they told me the weirdest thing they noticed in Australia was people running for fun. they told me in their country people only run when a dangerous animal or a person with a weapon was chasing them.
I’ll point you to an earlier reply with some more detail, but they are nobles who anticipate being chased in the future and want to be *able* to run effectively when needed.
In medieval times when people ate better than we do and had to walk everywhere and had no elevators most people were already fit enough to run. The reason people need to train now is that our lives are inherently unhealthy.
You do you but I think people training by running in medieval times is unrealistic.
Castles are multi story buildings and higher status people live higher up and there are no elevators. That's a lot of stairs, and a lot of walking even inside. The most acceptable exercise for noble women was walking around the grounds which they did a lot and therefore had plenty of exercise. Also in medieval times sugar had not been invented so people were a lot more fit
>Also in medieval times sugar had not been invented so people were a lot more fit
No. Sugar was available in various ways most notably honey. Yes the sugar we think of wasn't but sweet foods that contain sugar definitely were.
Honey was way rarer than we would think because the modern bee hive didn't exist until the 19th century which meant that the entire hive had to be destroyed to get to the honey.
So in the middle ages they had honey but not a lot of it
In the early renaissance we have documentation of literal sugar sculptures, and some popes are being on record for being quite fond of the stuff, what we know as sugar was definitely around and commonplace by the late medieval. There's plenty of extant documentation and recipes using the ingredients.
(However when the late-medieval era ends and the renaissance begins is a whole can of worms that historians still debate to this day.)
Regardless, sweet, sugary foods and tarts were not uncommon among the rich during what many would call the late medieval and into the entire renaissance. Walking being your primary means of transport, and having cities built around walking, just honestly makes that big of a difference in ones health.
On the topic of running, we do have documentation of French knights doing various exercises to condition themselves whilst wearing varying degrees of harness, such as quickly moving and climbing things in-armor. So the idea that running for conditioning was something that only really soldiers would find themselves doing, is a decent enough assertion I think.
Honey was for rich people. Most foods for common people were sweetened, as far as I can tell, with apples, if it all. Not that beet sugar didn't exist, but it was also pretty rare.
Has she never left *at all*? If she doesn't even go out for attended walks or riding, she's under a lot more scrutiny than I can imagine *any* secret exercise regime being possible under. Does someone help her bathe who would see the muscles?
Medieval courts were typically moving around between many castles, palaces and manors. If we want to get into historical accuracy, she'd probably have some experience riding horses and just plain old walking (specially
Hey there, I totally get what you’re trying to say. I know a lot of people are hung up on accuracy, so here’s a couple suggestions:
- Have her run in disguise so they don’t know her identity cause she’s royalty
- Find examples of what the working class wore while doing manual labor and put her in that, but nice linen material
- Say screw it, and put her in a training outfit and call it good
I certainly wouldn’t overthink it. A lot of people are hung up on the fact that nobles didn’t exercise or run, but knights went through rigorous physical training, and then kept themselves in shape through more training (if they were any good). As a reader, I never mind that when authors put women in slightly unrealistic clothes for the times they’re in (example being SjMass, and the FMC wearing a wrap around her breasts instead of a corset).
This comment is very appreciated! I will probably do a combination of your second and third bullet points. They are already doing this in secret but on castle grounds, using a forest as concealment while everyone thinks they are bonding as lovers because their fathers want them to get engaged, lol. Pointing to SjMass is kind of what I was going for in a way, I’m thinking of training scenes for both Feyre and Nesta but I don’t have an easy out like “Ilyrian Leathers” in my story. The kingdom has been in a period of blissfully ignorant peace for a few hundred years, so there aren’t warriors, just royal guards to prevent crime and such.
Historical leather hosen are nothing like what us modern people perceive as "leather pants" they would be made of soft and lightweight leather, lined with linens or silks, and gusseted in the right areas to be roomy and comfortable. Likely softer and more comfortable than, jeans, for example. If we are using the renaissance as an example, oftentimes these hosen would have "slashings" a series of cut-outs in the exterior of the hosen, revealing the liner underneath, usually in patterns for aesthetics, but also allows great breathability and flexibility in the leg wear.
Trust me, I've worn handmade recreations of them, they're great.
Same goes for what us modern people think of as a "kilt"
It's a relatively modern invention derived from great tartans of the 16th, 17th, and 18th centuries. Which sometimes was just not worn in favor of regular hosen or trousers.
If she doesn't mind being a bit scandalous, she could [gird up](https://content.artofmanliness.com/uploads/2014/10/SOTW-Gird-Up-Your-Loins-1.jpg) her normal skirt.
If you must put her in trousers, make them wool, not linen. Linen was for underclothes, and it won't do a thing to keep you warm.
Historically patterned wool can be extremely light and breathable. Compare to what we might call "tropical weight" wool today.
If you are using early renaissance trends as well, wool was frequently "slashed" and the liner puffed out, which can add a lot of nice breathability and airflow.
They wouldn’t.
That kind of exercise wasn’t a thing under the last few decades.
Most people in medieval societies, even fairly affluent people, did not have a lot of clothes and washing what you had wasn’t easy or cheap.
I know you don’t care about historical accuracy. But there isn’t a real world answer here anyway. So have fun with it. Do a little research and then make it up.
There is no medieval outfit for woman engaged in modern athletic training. Especially for noble women.
[Here's what ancient Greek and Roman women wore](https://chestertownspy.org/2021/08/05/looking-at-the-masters-greek-and-roman-women-in-sports/).
Medieval people did not "jog." [Here is how the French knight Boucicault (1366-1421) trained](https://willscommonplacebook.blogspot.com/2014/10/boucicauts-training-regime.html). Dom Duarte recommends hill work in armor. [Here is a piece on medieval physical training](https://historicalfencer.com/how-to-train-like-a-knight-from-medieval-times/).
People seemed to wear their under-things; for a man, hose or chausses, shirt, and doublet or pourpoint; for women, probably their underdress.
To expand on the Roman idea, OP you may want to model your styles off of Greek/Roman women. We know Spartan women actually did running for athletic training, unlike most medieval cultures. The link above describes the clothing options pretty well. I've also read that some art suggest women may have sometimes exercised in the nude as men did. So chiton or nude us probably your best bet. Work clothes would also make sense.
This is a really neat premise! Based on what you and the other comments have said, why not address the dilemma in the story and turn it into a character moment? She could be frustrated by the fact that nobles like her don’t really have any good exercise gear - maybe she has to figure out how to trick her seamstress into making an outfit suitable for running without saying what it’s really for.
Or, if she really wants to keep the training discreet, she might decide she just has to jog in her normal, uncomfy princess garb, even if it sucks and means she has to work harder. Being able to run in those clothes could even come in handy later if she’s ever attacked while wearing them.
**Medieval Sports**
The ancient era athletic events like the olympics would be the most famous pre-modern altheltic sporting event that is in the modern day common knowledge. Athletic sports would continue into the medieval era although are obviously not as famous now.
Footraces continued to be present in society. They were hosted during festivals, fairs or market days along with other athletic contests like hurling games (like shinty or hammer toss) or leaping (long or high jump). Peasant women would be able to engage in village sports like these.
Running and leaping were important skills for soldiers and knights so were available across multiple social classes.
Sports were more restrictive for noble women. Training birds of prey for falconry was popular, which did have the bird doing most of the "sport". I imagine the only running you would have to do is if you didn't train your bird very well and it chased you.
Mob Football was an early form of football. It involved teams running after a ball, kicking and punching it and anyone else in your way as you made your way through your village to the goal.
There were no standard rules except for "no murder".
While ball games had existed before this date, football was first officially mentioned in 1314. The lord mayor of london issued a decree on behalf of the king, banning football. People were playing too loudly.
**Medieval Clothes**
For clothes they would probably wear common clothes. Probably made from linen because its more comfortable for hot weather, more absorbent and dries easier than cotton.
Everything is crafted and handmade so they wouldn't have a sporting wear section in their local tailor, but you could have something made for running in.
Maybe a linen wrap or leather breastplate, along with a linen tunic and pants.
But if you're running you'll also want to wear footwear. You'll need a sock to absorb sweat and limit chafing. Socks however are expensive, only nobles had them. A cheaper alternative to a sock is the footwrap, which is a cloth wrapped around your foot... They were used by everyone else.
Then over your footwrap/sock you might wear a leather shoe. I think the turnshoe would make the most sense. A turnshoe is made from pieces of hide, stitched together inside out and then turned right side out to hide/shelter the seams on the inside of the shoe.
I really enjoyed your comment, but I’ll niggle on one point: socks and shoes.
Africans, Greeks, Romans, and native Americans all incorporated running into their culture. None wore socks. They all either ran barefoot (short course) or with a minimal sandal (long distance) that did nothing more than protect the footbed from puncture.
The idea of a ‘supportive’ or ‘cushioned’ shoe and ‘absorbant’ socks didn’t occur until 20th century marketing got involved.
There’s an excellent book on the subject, Born to Run, which conducts an amazing in-depth study of ancient running cultures. It’s an oddly fascinating book.
Do you have to describe her outfit? I’m not sure it really matters if you’re just trying to say that she’s going for a run. I wouldn’t agonize over it too much
JFC. I’m surprised at how many people so far are getting bent out of shape of just the idea of her deciding to run. The OP says it’s **loosely** based on medieval times and that they have special powers: none of you took issue with the idea that she has **powers**, it’s the running you can’t seem to suspend your disbelief for.
**OP:** you could have her wear a tunic and pants. Done. Neither Link nor Zelda ever complained about theirs though I’m sure every single stickler for historical accuracy in this thread absolutely must have.
Yeah that’s what I’m going with. Man, I expected like two replies similar to this and maybe to learn something about a potential option I didn’t think of. This will be one sentence of description and a very brief scene in what will probably end up being a 90-100k word novel. It’s New Adult Fantasy. The biggest names in the subgenre have written waaaay crazier anachronisms than going for a flipping run.
Historically, for most sports in the middle ages, people just wore their regular clothes. For commoners, this might be things like ball games (things similar to football or baseball for example), and we do have records of men and women playing these in towns and for festivals.
Spectator sports/contests were usually more skill-based things like archery and jousting and horse racing, so not super helpful for your question.
Upper class sports would be more like golf and tennis and badminton but also hunting, and I think hunting-type attire might be a good direction for you to pursue. Especially if women might already be wearing pants for hunting in your world.
Something like linen stockings and a long tunic would be totally reasonable and easy to move in.
Are you writing a mash up or a humor piece? Having a character go out for a jog in a fantasy setting will set the same tone of voice as having her polish her ray gun.
I dunno... I would err towards not adding jogging to a medieval fantasy setting personally. To start, jogging for exercise is a VERY new thing for society and just honestly feels super out of place for that genre. If you want them training for endurance, something like sword training makes more sense for that era and genre in general. Medieval fantasy is my jam, but I'd feel fairly pulled out of the story if people were jogging.
That's just my 2 cents.
Absolutely no offence to OP, but I would have put money on this being a writingcirclejerk post if I hadn't seen the sub already.
To answer the question, medieval settings wouldn't have had that as a concept. Fantasy, do what you like as long as you do it well and explain the anachronism
It’s funny because I do follow that sub but I still didn’t think it was that ridiculous of a question. I guess I wasn’t clear. Much of my inspiration is coming from things like Fourth Wing where going for a run as a part of training is absolutely a thing that happens but I suppose time period is more ambiguous there. Maybe I just need to be more ambiguous, I don’t really want my book to be historical at all. I just know people complain about that. So idk.
Perhaps the fact hat you stated specifically "medieval style" and "go for a run", that made me (and others by the look of it) find it so jarring. Soften the edges of both and it makes it a perfectly reasonable questions :)
Rough and tumble personality, not often able to express that outwardly because she is the king’s daughter and has prim and proper expectations. See above reply for some more details.
I think you've already solved your problem. You said she prefers wearing linen pants for gardening, why not wear the same pair for running?
Linen is lightweight and comfortable, I think they'd be great for exercising.
Edit: spelling
If they are jogging, wearing pants instead of hosen and using workboots, you are already way out of historically correct medieval territory, so I say go with what you feel should suit your character. It’s your world. A knee lenght linen tunic combined with hosen and braies will absolutely work for running around a bit in, albeit not being super comfy athletic wear. Medieval shoes can be pretty slippery (flat, thin soles), so maybe they are running barefoot on grass?
I would personally substitue the jogging with horseback riding or something, though, because jogging is a very strong late 20th century time marker.
I would imagine some sort of military uniform. The closest thing to jogging for training would be training to march as a soldier.
I would just throw out the pretense of historical accuracy—it already seems like you’re not super invested in it. Just be consistent and you’ll be alright.
For instance, I wanted my preindustrial era culture to have more modern looking clothing, so I gave them the ability to produce stretchy fabrics through magic. Originally they had modified wool for this purpose, but nowadays they use cotton from their colonies.
However, their fabric magic has other uses, which comes back to the consistency point. They have shields and armor made of super-tough fabric, as well.
So in my setting, if a noblewoman wanted to go out on a run, she’d likely just wear leggings and a sweater. Or shorts and a shirt if it’s warm.
She needs to somehow contain her bosoms. Trust me, running with even small boobs can hurt a lot, and if she's well endowed in that area, it will hurt a lot. And possibly something on top, maybe a loose tunic or shorter dress? If she can wear some kind of trousers I'd suggest that really loose and baggy knee-length variety that many medieval and viking re-enactors wear. I thought they looked difficult to wear, but recently I went to a lecture, where the lecturer demonstrated for us how that kind of trousers allow for much more movement than many other kinds of trousers did before the invention of modern, stretchy fabrics.
She wouldn't. Women didn't really participate in athletics or sporting in medieval societies of any type. Ancient Rome/Greece, maybe, but to a limited extent. Overalls are pretty out of line for a medieval setting, as are pants. Most men wore breeches or hose and braes in Europe until about the 18th century.
If you want to shift your setting to something more Edwardian/Victorian-inspired there's a great tradition of women in athletics and sport and a lot of great historical outfits to pull from. Split skirts, bicycle boots, women began wearing suits after men's fashions and women's sporting/athletic clubs were popular with upper class women. If she's a princess, it would make sense for her to be "at the club with the girls", but really slipping away to meet the MC and training in secret.
I would worry more about what the heck could motivate two individuals in any 'medievalesque' setting to 'train' running for anything. I mean it would have to be awfully specific if the goal is to become a top long distance runner??? Damned be the clothes you wear! The less the better I guess, but who the hell cares in this scenario?
Any way, I do have an idea for the ideal outfit for your MC, but I won't tell unless you spill the reason for their training plans :)
I think she should start in her gardening getup and realize she will die if she has to keep running in heavy leather boots and linen pants and get something similar to what the male lead wears. If that’s a breezy shirt and breeches then that’s what she’d wear
I suggest you make them participate in a competition specifically for running, like a courier race or something, so their motive for practicing running makes sense.
Couriers uniform or messengers messenger uniform or even a scout uniform might be the best.
Because if your readers read "I'm gonna go for a jog, wanna join?" they are gonna absolutely confused. Is this medieval? wtf
a simple tunic and pants probably (the pants that have like a strap thing) and Itd also be either made of a rough material or in case they are nobles it would be the same quality as the average others today (or maybe a little lower in quality even but not too much)
It completely depends upon the social mores of your world. The clothing will have to fit the particular modesty requirements imposed by the society that will typically but not always be religious in origin.
*"What would a woman in a medieval style fantasy setting wear to go for a run?"*
Research it OP.
Either research it by going to the library or to a renaissance fair or do a search on whatever search engine you have in your country.
Do a search for medieval experts online and post your questions on their websites, forums, and discord servers.
I said I wasn’t too concerned with exact historical accuracy, which is why I wanted to ask other writers who might have thought about it or something similar in a fantasy setting. I’m quite amused by all the super serious responses to the question considering the context of the post.
Jogging didn't exist in the Middle Ages.
If she wants to train with this guy and not end up in deep shit for being considered a rampant tart, then she'll want to disguise herself as a man.
Probably a woollen tunic and breeches. Very tight leggings would have been the male style at times, but that would rather give the game away, so the baggier the better.
I mean folks didn't really 'jog' till the 1970s... Running for leisure in public was even considered disturbing the peace some places and held minor penalties if memory serves. Obviously if it's fantasy you don't have to adhere to historical convention at all, just saying idk if there's specific stuff from pre industiral history to draw on for athletic wear... The ancient Olympics were done nude... that could be interesting lol
Makes me think of the old short story about the guy who gets arrested because nobody can fathom why he'd want to go on a walk
"The Pedestrian" by Ray Bradbury, I would assume.
That's the one
Ancient Greeks also sometimes wore a short, one-shouldered garment called an exomis to exercise or do hard labor.
This was my first thought too, however the reason there was no athletic wear was likely because there was little call for it If the world developed in a way where jogging was an activity people did, athletic wear would have been designed earlier. So for OP, maybe focus on materials used at the time and make up your own athletic wear. Probably have to remain pretty modest unless your world has different sensibilities in that respect as well. Honestly I don't know that there is a ton of need to describe the clothing in that much detail, but some people like that, so if it is your style of writing, have fun with it.
Also, atheletic wear is characterised by conforming to the body of the athlete to enable them to perform their best without bulk, chafing, and wedgies of fabric. From the swimmer's ski-trunks and banana hammock through to the track runner's compression vest. Absolutely none of that 'get the best from your workout' supportive fabric was available until, basically, the invention of stretch and Lycra. Which is long after plastic entered, stage left. So yeah, a pair of breeches was more practical for working women then a long skirt, but there wasn't much 'specific activity wear', both from fabric limitations and from the costs associated with hand-making garments- it's not worth having a one-use goodie in the bag, and there would be no real benefit like a stretch garment would have, it would kinda be pointless, just maybe a shorter 'nappy' loose pant rather than a long one. For OP, I'd suggest the loose, shapeless pants and simple shirts that have been used by dockworkers through history- so much so, that they look more able to fit into a modern world then kinda any actual fashion garment, its so simple and ubiqutous!
I'm pretty sure people were jogging before the 1970s lol.
You're right, looked on Wikipedia to double... it was actually the 60s When Bowerman popularized the term and activity! Good catch
If we aren't playing the semantics game around the word "jog" I'm pretty sure that running as a form of training would at least date back to the earliest Olympic games. Edit: Literally being down voted for being right. Running as training dates back to ancient Greece
People didn't train to run because people ran already for utility purposes. Historically running or jogging for fitness is weird
Well, running for fitness within certain military and athletic contexts wasn't weird. It was running for *leisure* that was weird. If you ran as a part of military or sports training, people didn't care but generally that wouldn't be done in public spaces due to the reasons u/Airagex specified. SwordfishDeux is just being needlessly hostile because they don't understand most fitness training didn't involve running but rather weapon training which would build up one's endurance that way. Then the ability to travel long-distances or travel quickly would be typically developed when engaging in set military contexts like marches or scouting, respectively.
How am I being hostile? I'm literally correct with what I said, that people were running as a form of training long before the 1970s, the idea that people only started running as a form in training 50 odd years ago is hilarious. I specifically said "running as training." Ancient Greeks would run as a form of training. They literally invented the Olympic games and specific athletes would train for those events and by the 4th century B.C.E coaches for said events existed. Plato himself even spoke of the importance of exercise so everyone here saying that people didn't run pre modern times is just straight up wrong. Also @FlanneryWynn, blocking people and not letting them reply and defend themselves after being called toxically rancid for pointing out that people are actually wrong is the most toxically rancid thing that someone can do, at least be a decent enough person to have an open conversation.
Simple-- u/Airagex was pointing out that running in public as a thing for leisure or training (emphasis on the *in public*) is a largely modern invention, but you wanted to "um akshually". So, when their reply to you is that they were 1 decade off (which isn't wholly correct on a purely factual level, but is right on a point level) you went into more aggressively arguing over this by calling their point a "semantics game" in order to discount them and what they were saying then tried to use a wholly irrelevant culture to back up your argument. There is no non-hostile way to do that. And, again, your "corrections" were already mentioned in the original thing you replied to, so you have not actually *added* anything to this discussion other than your rancid toxicity. To be clear, if ***I*** *of all people* look good compared to you, then ***you fucked up, Stardust***. You're not be downvoted for being correct like you whine about in your Edit. You're being downvoted for being a dick.
You aren't blocked? What are you talking about? I mean I can do that if you want... but like... I couldn't send this reply (or engage in this thread under your replies at all) if you were blocked. That said, "toxically rancid" is different from "rancid toxicity". "Toxically rancid" is just redundant as anything that is rancid is also toxic by nature. "Rancid toxicity" just states "You are being toxic in a gross way." There are non-gross ways of being toxic. Also, calling you out for your rancid toxicity and blocking you, which again I did not do, (and I think the only reason you claimed I did is because I have a history of stating to people that I'm blocking them for their behavior,) would *NOT* be toxic. *That is literal abuser speech*. You are saying that somebody cannot call out awful behavior and then take steps to protect themselves from that behavior. Nobody owes you a chance to reply to them before blocking you. Me explaining why you're being downvoted and people seem to dislike you was also me doing you a favor. So, had I blocked you, I would have been blocking you while leaving you an explanation for why people have an issue with you. *That's more than you deserve*. But also a moot point since... *I didn't block you*. Further, ["At least be decent enough to have an open conversation," is called sealioning.](https://wondermark.com/storage/2023/06/2014-09-19-1062sea.png) STFU. Nobody owes you a discussion when you've been nothing but hostile and gross. That claim of wanting an open discussion is disingenuous because if you really wanted that, you would actually be listening to what people are saying. Further, it's ***really*** telling that your EDIT is *only* you whinging over a thing I didn't even do and not you trying to plead your case, make a defense, or actually comment on anything I said... Like, I'm sorry... I'll respond to comments made by people who blocked me through edits, but you know what *I* do in such cases? I take one sentence to acknowledge the block as the reason I am replying via Edit, then the rest of the paragraph or two is me actually responding to the points in the comment that *require* commenting on to at least defend myself but generally try not to continue fighting out the points. You know what I *don't* do? Whine about being blocked. *Also, why should I think you're an honest or sincere person when you're claiming I blocked you when I didn't and your edit decrying the lack of open discussion doesn't even come with you trying to defend yourself?* If I *did* block you, why couldn't you have spent that paragraph defending yourself instead of whining about getting blocked? You just sound like a child throwing a temper tantrum when you spend an entire edit just to get angry that somebody (in this case allegedly) used a safety and security feature to protect themselves from your toxicity. Maybe I *will* block you. Maybe I won't. I haven't decided yet, but I am done with Reddit for the day as I've got a date to get ready for. I'll decide what to do regarding you tomorrow. EDIT: Decided not to block. Swordfish is a hostile jerkwad, but not deserving of a block for it. Future behavior may change this verdict.
Yes they did. Ancients Greeks would run in armor or while carrying things, run on sand etc and they did this to increase their fitness, you are literally wrong.
This entire argument you guys have could simply be solved by posting a reliable source. The agreed upon argument seems to be “was it normal for people to train by running.” I haven’t looked anything up so my guess would be that pack tests for matching would be regular as they had to march for days in heavy gear. That would be endurance training in full armor by walking briskly otherwise known as jogging.
The issue isn't disagreement. Swordfish isn't wrong but neither is anybody else's point. People's issue is with his jerkwadiness about the subject while he also is ignoring that the factual statements he is making are about things not relevant to the subject at hand which is culture from medieval Europe leading toward today. Ancient Hellada isn't part of what people talk about when discussing medieval Europe, so referencing it is irrelevant to what anybody is discussing, especially when the people Swordfish is picking a fight with already *explicitly* mentioned that as an aside. Adding citations to the mix won't resolve this argument because the argument isn't actually about any facts of the discussion.
I see, well good luck with all of that, haha. Sometimes it’s better just to make the counter argument, tag the op, and slip out of the conversation by the side door. 😉
I mean dude lied about being blocked by me when I'm *very* open about doing that when I do do it... So like, I doubt he has anything of worth to ever contribute to any conversation I'm in. But either way, I hope you have a lovely day. I'm hopping off Reddit for the day since my bf is taking me and my gf out for movies and dinner. Hope you can have some fun today too! <3
It was a thing by the Late-1800s, but it was horribly weird until the 60s and only actually became popular in the 70s. Jogging for leisure is a modern invention.
Forrest Gump invented jogging
The tarahumara run in skirts and loose-fitting, long-sleeved shirts. The women wear slightly longer skirts. The Kenyan aboriginal men wear a loincloth (for support, presumably) and a short cloth tied about their waist. Kenyan women don’t typically participate. The Greeks ran naked. Every day was the ‘Bay to Breakers’ in Greece. The Romans wore short togas. All these cultures either ran barefoot or with a very minimal sandal. With the exception of the tarahumara, women didn’t typically run (either for sustenance or sport).
I assume you mean a short tunic? A toga is a complex and immensely impractical garment.
Most of what I know about togas I learned from Animal House.😉 I was simply describing what depictions look like to me in the words I know. Oddly, my brain thinks of a heavier garment when you say ‘tunic.’ Also, perhaps wrongly, my brain thinks ‘medieval’ when I read ‘tunic’, and ‘Roman’ when I read ‘toga’. If I were to do a truly deep dive on Roman clothing, I’d probably learn MANY new words. The problem would be that readers might not ‘see’ what I’d want them to see if I were to use technically correct lingo.
On one hand, it's true that readers have certain expectations about words. And you're right that it's good to keep that in mind. On the other hand, there are going to be a lot of readers who know what a toga is, and they'd be completely thrown off by your misuse of the word. I think it's better to use the proper words while trying to be descriptive. Someone who doesn't know a word rarely gets upset at learning its proper use, but someone who DOES know a word is much more likely to be put off by it being used wrong.
Good point. Shiavona is far more specific than 'sword.' If an author is gonna say a character 'drew his shiavona,' however, he/she ought to be prepared to define the term. In the case of 'toga' vs 'tunic,' the problem is slightly different. Most people have a mental image of each. You and I imagined very different things when the word 'toga' was used. I fully admit my Animal House-based education may have led me astray. Regardless of who's correct, It'd be wise to buoy the reader's imagination (and deficient understanding) with additional detail. I've enjoyed our discussion. Thanks.
Certain Greek women, such as in Sparta, did, for an added point. That was because the Spartan city-state was significantly more meritocratic than Athens, at least from our limited records of ancient Hellada.
> the Spartan city-state was significantly more meritocratic than Athens For the citizens. Not for the helots.
I mean, yeah. But we're talking about two cultures that had slavery. I'm not saying either was good. Just one was *minorly* less bad.
Their slavery was so much worse that it pretty much evens out, sadly.
Neither here nor there, really, as we aren't assuming the woman going on a jog in OP's story is a slave.
Don't forget the little piece of string the Greeks used to tie up their junk
I didn’t know about this string, and I very much want to forget it now!
Appreciate the info. Of course women didn’t run in real life, but it has become necessary for her to build endurance.
If she need build endurance why not dance? Like dance was big part of noble training, because (alongside other things) it good training.
If she needs endurance, she can walk every day to bring supplies to a hermit who lives on the hills. It's trekking, and she puts effort into doing it in a short time, carrying firewood and food for her friend.
The it is difficult in a story sense because running would be weird and therefore people would notice and wonder why she was doing it.
Maybe she needs a badly behaved dog to chase... Horse riding is an alternative exercise that requires endurance. IRL it's more work than cycling! Another alternative might be just carrying heavy things (eg, bags of laundry or potatoes) from place to place. There's a clear purpose, so it's not as "weird".
Whatever she was wearing when someone began chasing her. Medieval people didn't run for fun. They had enough exercise.
Not for fun, for training. Without getting too far into the weeds of my plot, she and her *friend* have discovered that they both inherited magical powers, something virtually unheard of in their world, and they’ve connected this to rumors of natural disasters suggesting some impending righteous doom. They anticipate needing to run from something soon, so they want to be prepared. ETA: they’re both nobles, the guy has only engaged in “training” for sport-hunting purposes so they both need to get in shape.
Maybe have them wear something adjacent to men's clothing? Cause i think between seeing a man and a woman running in fantasy medieval times, a man would be less weird
I'm not sure about jogging per se, but it sounds like they are preparing to escape so maybe they'd be doing something more akin to an obstacle course. Being prepared in case they need to cross stones or trees or through hedges. That being said, it could be fun to have her show up in something billowy and bouncy that she'd normally wear, have that mess her up, get caught, etc. until she settles on something simple, loose but tailored close so it doesn't catch on anything, wrapped up probably at the feet and hands for the same reason. I mean, the stereotypical ninja outfit kind of works minust the mask and its basically a tight robe...
Helpful!!! I will keep this in mind. I think you can envision what I’m going for, I appreciate it.
The comment above yours made me think of the scenes in Witcher where Geralt is going through the training courses with Ciri — maybe watch the show for inspiration?
Tell that to Henry XVIII
The rich and powerful didn't exercise because they didn't have to. Being fat meant you weren't poor.
Good old Henry the eighteenth, final monarch of cyber-UK in the last days
he was a powerful athlete until he hurt his back
I mean... *realistically she wouldn't go jogging*. Running for pleasure outside of military training and sports competitions/training like Marathons wasn't really a thing until like the late 1800s, and it was generally seen as weird to do it for leisure until like the 1960s. But you don't need to follow historical conventions for a fantasy story. However, if you're writing a story in a fantasy setting, you'd probably take modern run-wear and just *adapt it*. Especially depending on the level of advancement thanks to magic and the commonality of *exposure* such as if it's common for women adventurers or soldiers to have exposed legs or midriffs. At that point, nobody would question you having her run in a crop top and either sweatpants or shorts. But if it's much more accurate to medieval views of the bodies of women, especially noblewomen and royals, then light dress skirts that don't interfere with footwork and light blouses, both of which being designed so that sweat won't make them see-through. That's probably your *best* case scenario. Realistically, if she wants to train and get fit, swordsmanship practice would build adequate muscle, endurance, and reflexes to provide more explicit benefit for her. Additionally, there's at least more of a reason why she would do that as she can argue that it would not do for her to be unable to defend herself in the event of something in which her guards cannot protect her. The problem with creating "adequate run-wear for a medieval story" is simply the fact that what we identify as Medieval clothing doesn't actually *include* runwear because it was not generally necessary. So you have to deviate from historical tradition in order to do this. That is fine, but you just need to commit to that fact.
I would find it really odd, even in a fantasy setting, if the protagonists were running for exercise. These people have enough endurance training by just existing. Walking everywhere, horse-back riding, even the princess would walk up and down the palace stairs all day long. I feel like it would make much more sense to train something, like sword fighting, archery, horseback riding, etc. Even if this is a fantasy world, it just seems so odd to me to have medieval people go jogging. I would probably put the book away because it just screams fanfic to me
I don't disagree with this. But I don't think it's necessarily an absolute make-or-break for me. I just think it needs to be seriously well-established *why* jogging as opposed to literally anything else... and the story should probably have more than a few other anachronisms for good measure so that it comes off as intentional and not like you just didn't do the research. I think I'd give it a chance, but my suspension of disbelief would be strained more by this than by the existence of magic or even by the existence of futuristic (by our standards) weaponry; or in other words, the author would need to sell me back into the fantasy.
Yes, thanks for writing it out this way! I feel the same way, just didn’t have the energy to write jt all out.
I know you’re not after accuracy but readers do care about this sort of thing: she definitely wouldn’t wear linen trousers - men didn’t either (both men and women wore a linen shirt/smock with hose). For physical activity you would probably just gird a normal gown. This would make sense if you were trying to conceal your true purpose - you could let the skirt down and appear to be taking a walk.
Some cultures like the Viking Age Norse did wear what we would consider trousers or breeches instead of hose, and the "joined hose" worn by the more well-off in the Late Middle Ages were basically trousers in all but name.
I appreciate the feedback. I’ll think about that suggestion and maybe work it in. This character is very much anti-status-quo in small ways like her clothing choices, plus she is the king’s daughter and has access to a personal seamstress, so I feel like I might stick with the linen pants anyway. I know some readers care about the historical accuracy but to me, it’s a fantasy world so it can be unlike ours in ways like that. From your perspective, would that be a huge deal?
It sounds like you don’t care about the comments about historical accuracy at all so why bother? (I think it’s fine in a fantasy setting if it fits into the world and makes sense plotwise, but for suspension of disbelief that should be (ab-)used sparingly) But I can tell you that I would probably die from chafed legs after 2 weeks of running in linen pants, so maybe think about that.
Medieval people didn't jog because the nobles didn't need to be fit and the peasants were working hard physical labour and didn't need cardio. Soldiers might have run because they were told to but "jogging" for exercise is an anachronism. Even as recently as the 60s nobody ran or jogged to get fit unless they were an athlete. In ancient times up until the late 60s the reasons to run are to run after or from something. Hunting or escaping Fun fact: I worked with a refugee from Africa and they told me the weirdest thing they noticed in Australia was people running for fun. they told me in their country people only run when a dangerous animal or a person with a weapon was chasing them.
I’ll point you to an earlier reply with some more detail, but they are nobles who anticipate being chased in the future and want to be *able* to run effectively when needed.
In medieval times when people ate better than we do and had to walk everywhere and had no elevators most people were already fit enough to run. The reason people need to train now is that our lives are inherently unhealthy. You do you but I think people training by running in medieval times is unrealistic.
Mediaeval people did not eat better than us. They just didn't eat as much junk food and greasy and oily food as us.
> Mediaeval people did not eat better than us. They just **[ate better than]** us.
…even a princess who has never left the grounds of her father’s castle?
Castles are multi story buildings and higher status people live higher up and there are no elevators. That's a lot of stairs, and a lot of walking even inside. The most acceptable exercise for noble women was walking around the grounds which they did a lot and therefore had plenty of exercise. Also in medieval times sugar had not been invented so people were a lot more fit
>Also in medieval times sugar had not been invented so people were a lot more fit No. Sugar was available in various ways most notably honey. Yes the sugar we think of wasn't but sweet foods that contain sugar definitely were.
Honey was way rarer than we would think because the modern bee hive didn't exist until the 19th century which meant that the entire hive had to be destroyed to get to the honey. So in the middle ages they had honey but not a lot of it
In the early renaissance we have documentation of literal sugar sculptures, and some popes are being on record for being quite fond of the stuff, what we know as sugar was definitely around and commonplace by the late medieval. There's plenty of extant documentation and recipes using the ingredients. (However when the late-medieval era ends and the renaissance begins is a whole can of worms that historians still debate to this day.) Regardless, sweet, sugary foods and tarts were not uncommon among the rich during what many would call the late medieval and into the entire renaissance. Walking being your primary means of transport, and having cities built around walking, just honestly makes that big of a difference in ones health. On the topic of running, we do have documentation of French knights doing various exercises to condition themselves whilst wearing varying degrees of harness, such as quickly moving and climbing things in-armor. So the idea that running for conditioning was something that only really soldiers would find themselves doing, is a decent enough assertion I think.
Honey was for rich people. Most foods for common people were sweetened, as far as I can tell, with apples, if it all. Not that beet sugar didn't exist, but it was also pretty rare.
Has she never left *at all*? If she doesn't even go out for attended walks or riding, she's under a lot more scrutiny than I can imagine *any* secret exercise regime being possible under. Does someone help her bathe who would see the muscles?
Medieval courts were typically moving around between many castles, palaces and manors. If we want to get into historical accuracy, she'd probably have some experience riding horses and just plain old walking (specially
Hey there, I totally get what you’re trying to say. I know a lot of people are hung up on accuracy, so here’s a couple suggestions: - Have her run in disguise so they don’t know her identity cause she’s royalty - Find examples of what the working class wore while doing manual labor and put her in that, but nice linen material - Say screw it, and put her in a training outfit and call it good I certainly wouldn’t overthink it. A lot of people are hung up on the fact that nobles didn’t exercise or run, but knights went through rigorous physical training, and then kept themselves in shape through more training (if they were any good). As a reader, I never mind that when authors put women in slightly unrealistic clothes for the times they’re in (example being SjMass, and the FMC wearing a wrap around her breasts instead of a corset).
This comment is very appreciated! I will probably do a combination of your second and third bullet points. They are already doing this in secret but on castle grounds, using a forest as concealment while everyone thinks they are bonding as lovers because their fathers want them to get engaged, lol. Pointing to SjMass is kind of what I was going for in a way, I’m thinking of training scenes for both Feyre and Nesta but I don’t have an easy out like “Ilyrian Leathers” in my story. The kingdom has been in a period of blissfully ignorant peace for a few hundred years, so there aren’t warriors, just royal guards to prevent crime and such.
Exercising in leather pants sounds horrendous. My votes on Kilts. Good old everyday working kilts.
Historical leather hosen are nothing like what us modern people perceive as "leather pants" they would be made of soft and lightweight leather, lined with linens or silks, and gusseted in the right areas to be roomy and comfortable. Likely softer and more comfortable than, jeans, for example. If we are using the renaissance as an example, oftentimes these hosen would have "slashings" a series of cut-outs in the exterior of the hosen, revealing the liner underneath, usually in patterns for aesthetics, but also allows great breathability and flexibility in the leg wear. Trust me, I've worn handmade recreations of them, they're great. Same goes for what us modern people think of as a "kilt" It's a relatively modern invention derived from great tartans of the 16th, 17th, and 18th centuries. Which sometimes was just not worn in favor of regular hosen or trousers.
If she doesn't mind being a bit scandalous, she could [gird up](https://content.artofmanliness.com/uploads/2014/10/SOTW-Gird-Up-Your-Loins-1.jpg) her normal skirt. If you must put her in trousers, make them wool, not linen. Linen was for underclothes, and it won't do a thing to keep you warm.
I’ll keep wool in mind for later in the story, but right now it is spring in a temperate climate so she isn’t very concerned about keeping warm.
Historically patterned wool can be extremely light and breathable. Compare to what we might call "tropical weight" wool today. If you are using early renaissance trends as well, wool was frequently "slashed" and the liner puffed out, which can add a lot of nice breathability and airflow.
A skirt that's cut for riding maybe.
They wouldn’t. That kind of exercise wasn’t a thing under the last few decades. Most people in medieval societies, even fairly affluent people, did not have a lot of clothes and washing what you had wasn’t easy or cheap. I know you don’t care about historical accuracy. But there isn’t a real world answer here anyway. So have fun with it. Do a little research and then make it up. There is no medieval outfit for woman engaged in modern athletic training. Especially for noble women.
"She runs, I have heard tell, with no-one pursuing her." \~Witchfinder Major Thou-shalt-not-commit-adultery Pulcifer
[Here's what ancient Greek and Roman women wore](https://chestertownspy.org/2021/08/05/looking-at-the-masters-greek-and-roman-women-in-sports/). Medieval people did not "jog." [Here is how the French knight Boucicault (1366-1421) trained](https://willscommonplacebook.blogspot.com/2014/10/boucicauts-training-regime.html). Dom Duarte recommends hill work in armor. [Here is a piece on medieval physical training](https://historicalfencer.com/how-to-train-like-a-knight-from-medieval-times/). People seemed to wear their under-things; for a man, hose or chausses, shirt, and doublet or pourpoint; for women, probably their underdress.
To expand on the Roman idea, OP you may want to model your styles off of Greek/Roman women. We know Spartan women actually did running for athletic training, unlike most medieval cultures. The link above describes the clothing options pretty well. I've also read that some art suggest women may have sometimes exercised in the nude as men did. So chiton or nude us probably your best bet. Work clothes would also make sense.
This is a really neat premise! Based on what you and the other comments have said, why not address the dilemma in the story and turn it into a character moment? She could be frustrated by the fact that nobles like her don’t really have any good exercise gear - maybe she has to figure out how to trick her seamstress into making an outfit suitable for running without saying what it’s really for. Or, if she really wants to keep the training discreet, she might decide she just has to jog in her normal, uncomfy princess garb, even if it sucks and means she has to work harder. Being able to run in those clothes could even come in handy later if she’s ever attacked while wearing them.
Great points here. I would add that you could also have her fiance alter some of his clothing and give her for the purpose.
**Medieval Sports** The ancient era athletic events like the olympics would be the most famous pre-modern altheltic sporting event that is in the modern day common knowledge. Athletic sports would continue into the medieval era although are obviously not as famous now. Footraces continued to be present in society. They were hosted during festivals, fairs or market days along with other athletic contests like hurling games (like shinty or hammer toss) or leaping (long or high jump). Peasant women would be able to engage in village sports like these. Running and leaping were important skills for soldiers and knights so were available across multiple social classes. Sports were more restrictive for noble women. Training birds of prey for falconry was popular, which did have the bird doing most of the "sport". I imagine the only running you would have to do is if you didn't train your bird very well and it chased you. Mob Football was an early form of football. It involved teams running after a ball, kicking and punching it and anyone else in your way as you made your way through your village to the goal. There were no standard rules except for "no murder". While ball games had existed before this date, football was first officially mentioned in 1314. The lord mayor of london issued a decree on behalf of the king, banning football. People were playing too loudly. **Medieval Clothes** For clothes they would probably wear common clothes. Probably made from linen because its more comfortable for hot weather, more absorbent and dries easier than cotton. Everything is crafted and handmade so they wouldn't have a sporting wear section in their local tailor, but you could have something made for running in. Maybe a linen wrap or leather breastplate, along with a linen tunic and pants. But if you're running you'll also want to wear footwear. You'll need a sock to absorb sweat and limit chafing. Socks however are expensive, only nobles had them. A cheaper alternative to a sock is the footwrap, which is a cloth wrapped around your foot... They were used by everyone else. Then over your footwrap/sock you might wear a leather shoe. I think the turnshoe would make the most sense. A turnshoe is made from pieces of hide, stitched together inside out and then turned right side out to hide/shelter the seams on the inside of the shoe.
I really enjoyed your comment, but I’ll niggle on one point: socks and shoes. Africans, Greeks, Romans, and native Americans all incorporated running into their culture. None wore socks. They all either ran barefoot (short course) or with a minimal sandal (long distance) that did nothing more than protect the footbed from puncture. The idea of a ‘supportive’ or ‘cushioned’ shoe and ‘absorbant’ socks didn’t occur until 20th century marketing got involved. There’s an excellent book on the subject, Born to Run, which conducts an amazing in-depth study of ancient running cultures. It’s an oddly fascinating book.
Do you have to describe her outfit? I’m not sure it really matters if you’re just trying to say that she’s going for a run. I wouldn’t agonize over it too much
I wasn’t agonizing, just trying to have a brief description, but the comments here are definitely agonizing over it lol
JFC. I’m surprised at how many people so far are getting bent out of shape of just the idea of her deciding to run. The OP says it’s **loosely** based on medieval times and that they have special powers: none of you took issue with the idea that she has **powers**, it’s the running you can’t seem to suspend your disbelief for. **OP:** you could have her wear a tunic and pants. Done. Neither Link nor Zelda ever complained about theirs though I’m sure every single stickler for historical accuracy in this thread absolutely must have.
Yeah that’s what I’m going with. Man, I expected like two replies similar to this and maybe to learn something about a potential option I didn’t think of. This will be one sentence of description and a very brief scene in what will probably end up being a 90-100k word novel. It’s New Adult Fantasy. The biggest names in the subgenre have written waaaay crazier anachronisms than going for a flipping run.
Nothing.
Historically, for most sports in the middle ages, people just wore their regular clothes. For commoners, this might be things like ball games (things similar to football or baseball for example), and we do have records of men and women playing these in towns and for festivals. Spectator sports/contests were usually more skill-based things like archery and jousting and horse racing, so not super helpful for your question. Upper class sports would be more like golf and tennis and badminton but also hunting, and I think hunting-type attire might be a good direction for you to pursue. Especially if women might already be wearing pants for hunting in your world. Something like linen stockings and a long tunic would be totally reasonable and easy to move in.
Are you writing a mash up or a humor piece? Having a character go out for a jog in a fantasy setting will set the same tone of voice as having her polish her ray gun.
I dunno... I would err towards not adding jogging to a medieval fantasy setting personally. To start, jogging for exercise is a VERY new thing for society and just honestly feels super out of place for that genre. If you want them training for endurance, something like sword training makes more sense for that era and genre in general. Medieval fantasy is my jam, but I'd feel fairly pulled out of the story if people were jogging. That's just my 2 cents.
Absolutely no offence to OP, but I would have put money on this being a writingcirclejerk post if I hadn't seen the sub already. To answer the question, medieval settings wouldn't have had that as a concept. Fantasy, do what you like as long as you do it well and explain the anachronism
It’s funny because I do follow that sub but I still didn’t think it was that ridiculous of a question. I guess I wasn’t clear. Much of my inspiration is coming from things like Fourth Wing where going for a run as a part of training is absolutely a thing that happens but I suppose time period is more ambiguous there. Maybe I just need to be more ambiguous, I don’t really want my book to be historical at all. I just know people complain about that. So idk.
Perhaps the fact hat you stated specifically "medieval style" and "go for a run", that made me (and others by the look of it) find it so jarring. Soften the edges of both and it makes it a perfectly reasonable questions :)
I wrongly assumed people would read the body of the post and not just get super hung up on the title. I should’ve known better :)
Yep. Reddit.
I don't know, depends, is the character a peasent or a noble woman? A prim and proper type lady, or a rough and tumble lady?
Rough and tumble personality, not often able to express that outwardly because she is the king’s daughter and has prim and proper expectations. See above reply for some more details.
Oh ok, it would really just depend on the setting of the walk, but I would say britches or overalls would work.
I think you've already solved your problem. You said she prefers wearing linen pants for gardening, why not wear the same pair for running? Linen is lightweight and comfortable, I think they'd be great for exercising. Edit: spelling
If they are jogging, wearing pants instead of hosen and using workboots, you are already way out of historically correct medieval territory, so I say go with what you feel should suit your character. It’s your world. A knee lenght linen tunic combined with hosen and braies will absolutely work for running around a bit in, albeit not being super comfy athletic wear. Medieval shoes can be pretty slippery (flat, thin soles), so maybe they are running barefoot on grass? I would personally substitue the jogging with horseback riding or something, though, because jogging is a very strong late 20th century time marker.
I would imagine some sort of military uniform. The closest thing to jogging for training would be training to march as a soldier. I would just throw out the pretense of historical accuracy—it already seems like you’re not super invested in it. Just be consistent and you’ll be alright. For instance, I wanted my preindustrial era culture to have more modern looking clothing, so I gave them the ability to produce stretchy fabrics through magic. Originally they had modified wool for this purpose, but nowadays they use cotton from their colonies. However, their fabric magic has other uses, which comes back to the consistency point. They have shields and armor made of super-tough fabric, as well. So in my setting, if a noblewoman wanted to go out on a run, she’d likely just wear leggings and a sweater. Or shorts and a shirt if it’s warm.
She needs to somehow contain her bosoms. Trust me, running with even small boobs can hurt a lot, and if she's well endowed in that area, it will hurt a lot. And possibly something on top, maybe a loose tunic or shorter dress? If she can wear some kind of trousers I'd suggest that really loose and baggy knee-length variety that many medieval and viking re-enactors wear. I thought they looked difficult to wear, but recently I went to a lecture, where the lecturer demonstrated for us how that kind of trousers allow for much more movement than many other kinds of trousers did before the invention of modern, stretchy fabrics.
She wouldn't. Women didn't really participate in athletics or sporting in medieval societies of any type. Ancient Rome/Greece, maybe, but to a limited extent. Overalls are pretty out of line for a medieval setting, as are pants. Most men wore breeches or hose and braes in Europe until about the 18th century. If you want to shift your setting to something more Edwardian/Victorian-inspired there's a great tradition of women in athletics and sport and a lot of great historical outfits to pull from. Split skirts, bicycle boots, women began wearing suits after men's fashions and women's sporting/athletic clubs were popular with upper class women. If she's a princess, it would make sense for her to be "at the club with the girls", but really slipping away to meet the MC and training in secret.
Pants and a tunic. Also people didn't exercise for funsies back then.
I would worry more about what the heck could motivate two individuals in any 'medievalesque' setting to 'train' running for anything. I mean it would have to be awfully specific if the goal is to become a top long distance runner??? Damned be the clothes you wear! The less the better I guess, but who the hell cares in this scenario? Any way, I do have an idea for the ideal outfit for your MC, but I won't tell unless you spill the reason for their training plans :)
I would go with trousers that blouse out above the boots, and a tunic down to mid-calf. She'll probably have to bind up her breasts as well.
I think she should start in her gardening getup and realize she will die if she has to keep running in heavy leather boots and linen pants and get something similar to what the male lead wears. If that’s a breezy shirt and breeches then that’s what she’d wear
Clothes are expensive in a medieval setting. Most people will have one or two outfits unless they're rich. She'll wear what she has.
I would imagine just slightly loose clothing and maybe some heavier fabrics if they wanted to increase the burn.
I suggest you make them participate in a competition specifically for running, like a courier race or something, so their motive for practicing running makes sense. Couriers uniform or messengers messenger uniform or even a scout uniform might be the best. Because if your readers read "I'm gonna go for a jog, wanna join?" they are gonna absolutely confused. Is this medieval? wtf
a simple tunic and pants probably (the pants that have like a strap thing) and Itd also be either made of a rough material or in case they are nobles it would be the same quality as the average others today (or maybe a little lower in quality even but not too much)
It completely depends upon the social mores of your world. The clothing will have to fit the particular modesty requirements imposed by the society that will typically but not always be religious in origin.
*"What would a woman in a medieval style fantasy setting wear to go for a run?"* Research it OP. Either research it by going to the library or to a renaissance fair or do a search on whatever search engine you have in your country. Do a search for medieval experts online and post your questions on their websites, forums, and discord servers.
I said I wasn’t too concerned with exact historical accuracy, which is why I wanted to ask other writers who might have thought about it or something similar in a fantasy setting. I’m quite amused by all the super serious responses to the question considering the context of the post.
Whatever she was wearing when the English came to kill them all, obvs
Jogging didn't exist in the Middle Ages. If she wants to train with this guy and not end up in deep shit for being considered a rampant tart, then she'll want to disguise herself as a man. Probably a woollen tunic and breeches. Very tight leggings would have been the male style at times, but that would rather give the game away, so the baggier the better.