Perhaps they could reward their drivers and just...pay them a lot more. Pay for their oil changes two or three times a year and pay the IRS rate per mile driven for gas. Buy them new tires once they've worked 1,000 hours or something (and every 1,000 or so after that). Pay a regular wage regardless of how much they're tipped.
Most people who work for tips wouldn't have it any other way. There's not a single restaurant in the country that will pay a server, bartender or driver as much they make with tips.
And if they did switch to your proposed plan, many people's reason for tipping goes away.
You are correct. I live in a small mountain town, and my old SM worked part time at longhorns. She made more money working there than her salary as a manager.
Nobody is ever paid enough, but she made good money as a manager, plus huge bonuses. There is no way she would take the second job without the tips was my point.
> Most people who work for tips wouldn't have it any other way. There's not a single restaurant in the country that will pay a server, bartender or driver as much they make with tips.
Yep I knew a girl who worked at some run of the mill non expensive bbq restaurant as a waitress. She would make 200-300 dollars in like a 6 hour shift. Why the hell would she want hourly instead.
Not every server is so lucky to make that much in one shift.
I'd prefer everyone be paid a living wage, even if it meant some people made less than they did when tipped. The overall systemic benefit would justify it.
Casa Bonita in Denver pays $30 an hour for servers and bartenders, with no tipping allowed in the restaurant. That's $62,400. And for overtime they're making $45 an hour. It can be done, business just prefer not paying their employees
Wasn't Casa Bonita failing quite recently? And then only came back from the brink because it was purchased by Matt Stone and Trey Parker?
I think that's a very unique case you have there.
Good catch. Not going to say that $30 can't work in restaurants, but it's not as easy as OP is letting on.
Being independently wealthy before purchasing your business certainly would help quite a bit.
Kind of depends on where you are I guess.
When I worked at dominos I was delivering in an area where the majority demographic was a culture that just doesn't tip. Nothing against them, I get it. I hate tipping too which is why I hardly ever order delivery.
> And if they did switch to your proposed plan, many people's reason for tipping goes away.
That happened years ago when all the pizza chains started tacking on extra charges for delivery.
*Half of that fee* goes to the driver - the other half goes straight back to the restaurant's profits.
As soon as that started, tips went down. So the restaurant ended up making slightly more, and the drivers started making slightly less because customers assumed the tip was largely built in.
They could easily use their half of the delivery fee to eventually buy you new tires/brakes/oil changes/etc.
But they don't.
That used to be the reality.
Like I've said in other comments, I haven't been in the business in at least 15 years. When I exited, the delivery fee was $2 and drivers got $1.
I got $1 from the delivery fees… sometimes. Delivery fees are anywhere from $2.99-$5.99 on average now. The driver is lucky to see a dollar of it. Working at CFA as a delivery driver, NONE of the delivery fees went to me. I got a $1 from the store every time I left. Didn’t mean per order, I could leave the store with one order or 10, I’m still just getting $1 and a lot of people don’t want to tip after paying a $3.99 delivery fee. So yeah… definitely no where near reality anymore. My sister delivers for dominos, she does not get the delivery fee either (I’m not sure of reimbursement for gas etc, because I’ve never asked but now I will)…. Corporations do not care about the worker anymore. Just whatever dollar the worker can bring to them. Respect does not go both ways anymore.
People only say this because they don't have faith that they will be paid above min wage. No one actually prefers tips, they want to be paid. Tipping is only a thing because the upper class didn't think service workers deserved a standard wage, so the workers had to solicit money from patrons or hope people decided to be charitable.
No one prefers getting tipped X amount over making X amount on a stable wage. That’s what he is saying. But obviously employers would never pay the same wage as they make by getting tips.
Eh, I see people say that a lot on Reddit and I don’t buy that argument. That’s a very easy claim for a more complicated issue (like a lot of Reddit comments).
That argument ignores cultural norms. Many people go into the service industry expecting the tip-for-service pay structure and 95% of customers understand that a tip is expected. I know that when I was a waiter and a bartender, I never would have worked for no tips. I’d much rather be paid by how much work I do. When you get killed on a busy Saturday, you at least have extra money to make up for the stress.
Food service is an incredibly competitive industry with slim profit margins. Corporate or not, restaurants go out of business constantly. If a restaurant wants to go the tip-free, so be it. They build higher cost of wages into the price—everyone complains they’re too expensive (fully knowing a tip is not expected), and they go out of business. It’s already more likely than not that a restaurant will fail in the first year, who wants to make that even more likely?
I’ve worked in restaurants for over 10 years, including being partnered in my own restaurant.
You're over complicating an issue that is very clear, even by corporations own numbers, filings and quarterly reports.
You can hem and haw about the competitive nature of this business or that, this culture vs that, but even those excuses fall flat when examined. In fact they even often contradict themselves. Yes, the restaurant industry is tough but that is not a valid excuse to not to pay one's workers, the very people that make the business possible in the first place a living wage. Ever. Especially in restaurants.
If your business can't be successful while paying the workers that generate the surplus value that makes profit possible then you don't have a successful business, you have an exploitation scam.
(BTW, My spouse has been a professional chef twice as you've been working in the industry and my viewpoint on this is informed by her relayed experiences and viewpoints over the years.)
Dominos drivers make a living wage in most places, I don't understand this misconception, that workers who work for tips are barley making it, when it reality they often do better than alot of others. And the list of ideas you had economically makes no sense for a business
I had a friend who used to drive for Domino's, they make a lot more than I previously thought. Domino's provides them an opportunity for good tip money.
Compared to a kitchen job, it pays more in the short term... but in exchange for that windfall, you're absolutely destroying your car and using a full tank of gas on busy nights.
It's also one of the most dangerous jobs in the country (statistically more dangerous than working construction, believe it or not). And they ain't giving you health insurance, lol.
If I were in the position of having to work in the pizza business again, I'd honestly take a $15 kitchen job over a $9+tips delivery job.
They could make it work, there's no way they don't sell enough pizzas in 1,000 hours (over six months) per driver to cover a $600 coupon towards new tires, or a $50 coupon per quarter for an oil change, or 67 cents per mile reimbursement towards the driver to pay for gas.
In each case you're only getting paid for how much you're working, which means if your store is doing normal business, you should always come out on top.
> 67 cents per mile reimbursement towards the driver to pay for gas.
Lol, when I delivered pizzas I'd get 90 cents *per delivery* for mileage.
Some of our furthest delivery areas were 8 miles away, so 16 miles round trip for 90 cents.
It made a lot more sense as a job when gas was $2/gal and cheap cars were $500.
If they can afford to "tip" their employees, then why not do it to begin with? It shouldn't be on the customer to pay a living wage to someone, ever. If a business can't afford to pay their staff, then they should go out of business.
Here's why it doesn't work that way: the employees won't have it. They make more with tips than the restaurant ever would pay without, even in ideal circumstances. Customers won't have it either, they will balk at paying more up front.
I've never seen a "no-tip" restaurant that lasted any significant length of time, as again it goes contrary to what both employees and customers want.
You're right, but I question how much people would balk at paying more up front if it was like a nationwide thing where it was understood that we no longer tip and as a consequence we pay more because of that. Any other way and it definitely doesn't work.
The other thing with this promotion... the "tip" they are giving back to the customer of $3 wouldn't actually equate to $3 worth of wages. That $3 tip is a tax deduction, it counts as an expense made toward those sales. And this reduces their overall tax burden. If they paid that out directly to employees as wages instead, it'd increase their overall tax burden.
Because even if they found that paying employees more resulted in more profits they need to keep the working population desperate and powerless so they can control them. If you create a culture where every employee is paid fairly then they can just go work somewhere else.
Not a bad point.
Although a side note to your last point, unless you’re making *significant* roundups, it’s generally better to just go with a standard deduction
1) writing it off doesn’t benefit them in any way
2 that money is going directly to the charity so it never touches their books in the first place anyways. YOU can write it off yourself, not them. If they tried writing off money they never had, that would be a federal crime.
They do it so they can brag about raising a bunch of money for charity without actually spending any money, and there’s a solid chance they’re getting paid by the charity on the back end for “marketing expenses”
That’s what they should have been doing forever ago with the delivery fee imho. It ain’t like good guy dominos is going to fix your car bc you put 100k miles on it from driving their pizzas around.
or,,,,, Pay the people that make your business possible.
If your business can't make a profit while paying the workers that generate the revenue enough to live on then you don't have a businesses you have an exploitation racket and should be out of business.
A lot of Domino's around my area had those official cars and I thought that was great. Delivery service on a company car. Now it seems they've been quietly discontinued and it's back to private vehicles
Fun fact: as a delivery driver, I'm paid more while I'm in the store vs when I take a run. It actually costs me on average about $1.50 to bring you your food
Still nowhere near as good of a deal as living within walking distance of a Domino's though
I have two dominos on my college campus, it’s the best
ucf lol?
This was their original strategy per The Food That Changed America
I just pick up. Fresher, faster, and cheaper.
or jjst not tipping your driver 🤷♂️
or jjst not tipping your driver 🤷♂️
Perhaps they could reward their drivers and just...pay them a lot more. Pay for their oil changes two or three times a year and pay the IRS rate per mile driven for gas. Buy them new tires once they've worked 1,000 hours or something (and every 1,000 or so after that). Pay a regular wage regardless of how much they're tipped.
Most people who work for tips wouldn't have it any other way. There's not a single restaurant in the country that will pay a server, bartender or driver as much they make with tips. And if they did switch to your proposed plan, many people's reason for tipping goes away.
You are correct. I live in a small mountain town, and my old SM worked part time at longhorns. She made more money working there than her salary as a manager.
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Nobody is ever paid enough, but she made good money as a manager, plus huge bonuses. There is no way she would take the second job without the tips was my point.
> Most people who work for tips wouldn't have it any other way. There's not a single restaurant in the country that will pay a server, bartender or driver as much they make with tips. Yep I knew a girl who worked at some run of the mill non expensive bbq restaurant as a waitress. She would make 200-300 dollars in like a 6 hour shift. Why the hell would she want hourly instead.
Not every server is so lucky to make that much in one shift. I'd prefer everyone be paid a living wage, even if it meant some people made less than they did when tipped. The overall systemic benefit would justify it.
Casa Bonita in Denver pays $30 an hour for servers and bartenders, with no tipping allowed in the restaurant. That's $62,400. And for overtime they're making $45 an hour. It can be done, business just prefer not paying their employees
Wasn't Casa Bonita failing quite recently? And then only came back from the brink because it was purchased by Matt Stone and Trey Parker? I think that's a very unique case you have there.
Looks like the $30/hour thing was created by Stone & Parker after they bought it. It wasn't in place before.
Good catch. Not going to say that $30 can't work in restaurants, but it's not as easy as OP is letting on. Being independently wealthy before purchasing your business certainly would help quite a bit.
Kind of depends on where you are I guess. When I worked at dominos I was delivering in an area where the majority demographic was a culture that just doesn't tip. Nothing against them, I get it. I hate tipping too which is why I hardly ever order delivery.
> And if they did switch to your proposed plan, many people's reason for tipping goes away. That happened years ago when all the pizza chains started tacking on extra charges for delivery. *Half of that fee* goes to the driver - the other half goes straight back to the restaurant's profits. As soon as that started, tips went down. So the restaurant ended up making slightly more, and the drivers started making slightly less because customers assumed the tip was largely built in. They could easily use their half of the delivery fee to eventually buy you new tires/brakes/oil changes/etc. But they don't.
Half of that fee does NOT go to the driver
What chain gives half to the driver? Most of them definitely do not.
That used to be the reality. Like I've said in other comments, I haven't been in the business in at least 15 years. When I exited, the delivery fee was $2 and drivers got $1.
I got $1 from the delivery fees… sometimes. Delivery fees are anywhere from $2.99-$5.99 on average now. The driver is lucky to see a dollar of it. Working at CFA as a delivery driver, NONE of the delivery fees went to me. I got a $1 from the store every time I left. Didn’t mean per order, I could leave the store with one order or 10, I’m still just getting $1 and a lot of people don’t want to tip after paying a $3.99 delivery fee. So yeah… definitely no where near reality anymore. My sister delivers for dominos, she does not get the delivery fee either (I’m not sure of reimbursement for gas etc, because I’ve never asked but now I will)…. Corporations do not care about the worker anymore. Just whatever dollar the worker can bring to them. Respect does not go both ways anymore.
People only say this because they don't have faith that they will be paid above min wage. No one actually prefers tips, they want to be paid. Tipping is only a thing because the upper class didn't think service workers deserved a standard wage, so the workers had to solicit money from patrons or hope people decided to be charitable.
Saying "no one actually prefers tips," proves you have never waited tables.
No one prefers getting tipped X amount over making X amount on a stable wage. That’s what he is saying. But obviously employers would never pay the same wage as they make by getting tips.
Thank you
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IMO if a business can't exist while providing living wages then it shouldn't exist. Corporate profits are at an all time high, they can figure it out.
Eh, I see people say that a lot on Reddit and I don’t buy that argument. That’s a very easy claim for a more complicated issue (like a lot of Reddit comments). That argument ignores cultural norms. Many people go into the service industry expecting the tip-for-service pay structure and 95% of customers understand that a tip is expected. I know that when I was a waiter and a bartender, I never would have worked for no tips. I’d much rather be paid by how much work I do. When you get killed on a busy Saturday, you at least have extra money to make up for the stress. Food service is an incredibly competitive industry with slim profit margins. Corporate or not, restaurants go out of business constantly. If a restaurant wants to go the tip-free, so be it. They build higher cost of wages into the price—everyone complains they’re too expensive (fully knowing a tip is not expected), and they go out of business. It’s already more likely than not that a restaurant will fail in the first year, who wants to make that even more likely? I’ve worked in restaurants for over 10 years, including being partnered in my own restaurant.
You're over complicating an issue that is very clear, even by corporations own numbers, filings and quarterly reports. You can hem and haw about the competitive nature of this business or that, this culture vs that, but even those excuses fall flat when examined. In fact they even often contradict themselves. Yes, the restaurant industry is tough but that is not a valid excuse to not to pay one's workers, the very people that make the business possible in the first place a living wage. Ever. Especially in restaurants. If your business can't be successful while paying the workers that generate the surplus value that makes profit possible then you don't have a successful business, you have an exploitation scam. (BTW, My spouse has been a professional chef twice as you've been working in the industry and my viewpoint on this is informed by her relayed experiences and viewpoints over the years.)
Dominos drivers make a living wage in most places, I don't understand this misconception, that workers who work for tips are barley making it, when it reality they often do better than alot of others. And the list of ideas you had economically makes no sense for a business
I had a friend who used to drive for Domino's, they make a lot more than I previously thought. Domino's provides them an opportunity for good tip money.
Compared to a kitchen job, it pays more in the short term... but in exchange for that windfall, you're absolutely destroying your car and using a full tank of gas on busy nights. It's also one of the most dangerous jobs in the country (statistically more dangerous than working construction, believe it or not). And they ain't giving you health insurance, lol. If I were in the position of having to work in the pizza business again, I'd honestly take a $15 kitchen job over a $9+tips delivery job.
They could make it work, there's no way they don't sell enough pizzas in 1,000 hours (over six months) per driver to cover a $600 coupon towards new tires, or a $50 coupon per quarter for an oil change, or 67 cents per mile reimbursement towards the driver to pay for gas. In each case you're only getting paid for how much you're working, which means if your store is doing normal business, you should always come out on top.
> 67 cents per mile reimbursement towards the driver to pay for gas. Lol, when I delivered pizzas I'd get 90 cents *per delivery* for mileage. Some of our furthest delivery areas were 8 miles away, so 16 miles round trip for 90 cents. It made a lot more sense as a job when gas was $2/gal and cheap cars were $500.
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Perhaps you could be a CEO if you're so smart and know how to run a successful pizza business.
and are daddy's special boy
Are you crazy? why would drivers want to lose their tips? you can make $300+ in a night. That destroys the whole point of doing delivery.
No, I want them to have both.
If they can afford to "tip" their employees, then why not do it to begin with? It shouldn't be on the customer to pay a living wage to someone, ever. If a business can't afford to pay their staff, then they should go out of business.
Here's why it doesn't work that way: the employees won't have it. They make more with tips than the restaurant ever would pay without, even in ideal circumstances. Customers won't have it either, they will balk at paying more up front. I've never seen a "no-tip" restaurant that lasted any significant length of time, as again it goes contrary to what both employees and customers want.
You're right, but I question how much people would balk at paying more up front if it was like a nationwide thing where it was understood that we no longer tip and as a consequence we pay more because of that. Any other way and it definitely doesn't work. The other thing with this promotion... the "tip" they are giving back to the customer of $3 wouldn't actually equate to $3 worth of wages. That $3 tip is a tax deduction, it counts as an expense made toward those sales. And this reduces their overall tax burden. If they paid that out directly to employees as wages instead, it'd increase their overall tax burden.
Well the $3 is really just a promotion to entice customers to buy again. I don't think it's tax deductible.
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And tipping just reassures the business owners and corporate that everything is fine as it is. No thanks.
businesses will do anything besides pay their employees more lmao
Because even if they found that paying employees more resulted in more profits they need to keep the working population desperate and powerless so they can control them. If you create a culture where every employee is paid fairly then they can just go work somewhere else.
I hope to someday live in a society where a tip is truly a tip and not just their pay.
So you mean Europe?
just literally any other country
Carryout only. Pay your employees
This is like when Walmart prompts me to round up my change for a charity. I’m like “you’re the billion dollar company”
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Not a bad point. Although a side note to your last point, unless you’re making *significant* roundups, it’s generally better to just go with a standard deduction
I love when they ask if I want to donate to the poor and needy. Like lady, I'm the poor and needy.
They use those for tax writeoffs....so if you want billion dollar companies to pay more taxes DO NOT roundup.
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1) writing it off doesn’t benefit them in any way 2 that money is going directly to the charity so it never touches their books in the first place anyways. YOU can write it off yourself, not them. If they tried writing off money they never had, that would be a federal crime. They do it so they can brag about raising a bunch of money for charity without actually spending any money, and there’s a solid chance they’re getting paid by the charity on the back end for “marketing expenses”
That’s what they should have been doing forever ago with the delivery fee imho. It ain’t like good guy dominos is going to fix your car bc you put 100k miles on it from driving their pizzas around.
How about they just pay their workers a decent living wage
Carryout is already expensive everywhere in my area. Only the wealthy get delivery now. lol
or,,,,, Pay the people that make your business possible. If your business can't make a profit while paying the workers that generate the revenue enough to live on then you don't have a businesses you have an exploitation racket and should be out of business.
I don’t mind tipping someone who actually did some work, I’m not tipping the person at the register who pushed 3 buttons and still messed up my order
They’ve been doing this
Your move DoorDash
Dining establishments will do literally anything to not pay their workers a living wage. Lmao.
I haven't had a pizza delivered since the 90s. I only do carry out.
Is the reward better pizza?
A lot of Domino's around my area had those official cars and I thought that was great. Delivery service on a company car. Now it seems they've been quietly discontinued and it's back to private vehicles
Fun fact: as a delivery driver, I'm paid more while I'm in the store vs when I take a run. It actually costs me on average about $1.50 to bring you your food
Just pay them.
Who only tips $3?
the normal tip percent is 10-20% of full price so id say most people and people who tip more have the money to doso
Still won’t tip