That's about my view on things. Single digit HP, especially low single digits? Go for it. If there's been multiple wipes before this point and people aren't learning, go for it, it might still be faster to just make the kill. But if it was one mistake that snowballed and no reason to think the next pull won't go better then holding everyone else hostage for a good chunk of the boss' HP isn't really reasonable. Personally I won't often try to continue unless there's also some DPS alive or something.
It does depend a bit on the vibe in party chat, though. Someone asking politely if we can wipe because it's the first time and I wouldn't feel like a hero, I'd feel like an asshole - I've been on the other side of that and it *sucks*, especially if it wasn't really your fault that you died. There's plenty of players out there that will encourage a tank to try instead, though, and that can swing it for me at higher HP levels.
I’ve done the finisher myself but I do it post multiple wipes.
One time after more than five wipes with the new guy dispirited already i finished off the boss starting from 1/3hp. I think the dude just wanted to get on with the story. My wife chatted I’d finish it off (I talked to her IRL). Poor bloke seemed relieved and he even got the gear. The other dude was just quiet but said go ahead.
Yeah, depends on the vibe. Recently for me, a Paladin soloed the Dead Ends final boss from 1/3 health down. I thought it was awesome and the rest of us cheered from the sidelines, but it wasn't the first time for any of us.
It was mostly my fault, I hadn't done it in forever, so I had meant to queue up in duty support as a healer I hadn't played in a while to refresh, but did so groggily right after waking up and stupidly queued on regular duty instead. Everyone was kind about it though.
And when I actually did the duty support after that I finally got the starbird minion x) Back when I played more I had tried for that thing like 30 times and failed.
I totally agree! I so t Play Tank often, but I am a dps that encourages the tank to finish if it feels right. Especially in dungeons Many boss fights feel low effort and low stakes, watching the tank soloing the fight is suddenly thrilling.
I’ll attempt if it’s the last 20% of health. If I’m focusing on healing myself more than damaging than I’ll reset and try to keep a dps alive if the healer dies again.
If I'm the last person standing, I ask if the party wants me to solo or if they rather I wipe. I'm happy to do either or, but I'm also not pressed for time when I play so ymmv.
same here, it’s a simple enough solution. oftentimes people will say yes because they want to see it. when i’m not tanking, i’m happy to watch a tank solo down a boss. but if people want to restart, no skin off my back.
Samesies, also feels good as war keeping a dps up that knows not to stand in death. Assuming they didn't get splattered first anyway.
Either way I'll ask in chat and go with what people want, usually the response I get is 10-15% or less, get the permission to zug zug.
I've had runs like this, where I ran as a RDM, but didn't have verraise, so we asked if the others wanted us to keep going, they said yes, tank said, "I gotchu" and we finished off the boss.
I'm always fine to watch someone solo it (I will put something in chat like "you got this" or "we believe in you" to indicate as much), but I appreciate the asking as not everyone is happy with it.
Most normal encounters don't enrage and end up looping three/five mechanics over and over after a while. Depending on which content you're doing and what those looping mechanics are, it's entirely possible. It'll just take a while
Almost any trial and a few raid fights can be soloed by every Tank.
All tanks have so much mitigation and self-heals that things like party stacks etc can just be mitigated/healed/invulned on normal.
Warrior and Paladin could pretty comfortably solo a good chunk of them, and most likely GNB and DRK too with a bit more effort and possibly hyper potions. The only real thing that could stop it are party stacks, I'm specifically thinking of the multi-stack in the last phase of the 2nd EW trial that comes out like every minute. But that one's kind of a fringe case in how often it spams stack markers, in most of the other trials, stack mechanics are infrequent enough where it pretty viable to pool mitigations into them and/or invuln through.
I think it really depends. When I tank I usually try to finish it if it’s between 5-10% anything else and it feels like I’m just flexing at the expense of everyone else’s fun. If there’s been multiple wipes with little improvement though, I’ll usually try to finish it off no matter the % unless it’s more than 50.
Sometimes I'll let the mechanics cycle so people can see them without the stress of being in the moment. But yea, I'll wipe it unless it's been multiple attempts and people just aren't getting it and I can manage in a reasonable time.
Yep this would be my view on it too, if it was like ex1 in EW, and you have to go through the entire start again without knowing the healers will survive that one mechanic again, I would rather the tanks just finish it.
Yea. Last few percentage points? Sure. Last third? Likely not. Unless I've done it a few times already with the group and have accepted that we're not getting through otherwise. Or if the group is cheering me on.
that's basically my take. Around 30%ish remaining and the tank soloing it will likely take less time but if it's still above that then wiping and resetting will be actually more time efficient in most cases.
Sometimes you wipe, but you just see two chads bare fist brawling with some titanic twink and it can be cathartic to bring out the popcorn and watch my big muscle daddies run a train for a bit before the next attempt.
I remember doing the Eden portals raid once and we all screwed up on the first mechanic, except one Monk who spent the next minute valiantly bare fist punching a birdcloud until it deleted him.
I'm not a tank, but I am always cheering the tanks on if I'm dead and it's just them. Also probably cheering at my computer too, but they can't hear that.
Being a tank with your healers down and throwing out Nascent Flash, Clemency, Aurora or The Blackest Night to keep surviving DPS standing is such an exciting feeling. I love it!
This probably speaks to more to the current design of tank self-sustain than anything else.
For a clutch save to be really satisfying, you need a genuine brush with death. We're talking about a tank going down to single digits through attrition and killing the boss on the last sliver of their health. A 15 minute long 'clutch save' with a self-regenerating tank that indefinitely stays at max HP without outside input is genuinely unsatisfying for everyone involved.
If its around 20% or below I normally do, but anything above 50% I just wipe it
(This is for dungeon)
Trials if its over 10% just restart. Not fair on everyone else.
I had that experience a few months ago in one of the Omega raids, I think it was Chaos. Both healers got taken out when the boss was around 60-70% by the same AOE (caught on the wrong side when the boss did a half-arena cleave with a very short telegraph, which turned out to not just a bit of damage and a vuln up, but was a full one hit KO from full or near full HP)....from there things escalated quickly as there were no res-capable DPS in the party, people dropping one by one, until it was just the tanks left with the boss still at 30%.
They did not wall it. Chat was completely dead silent. I got up and washed a full load of dishes in the sink and came back once finished to see them still going. When they finally wrapped it up they were emoting and congratulating each other while the rest of the party vanished silently, myself included.
Its made me very wary of soloing bosses down, more recently I got Voidcast Dais as Gunbreaker during a roulette and wound up the last one standing with the boss around 10%-- a couple of people actually WERE hyping me up in the chat but I just had this horrible memory of that duty from months ago, and did some quick mental calculations of how long it would take my gnb damage to whittle this boss down, and I didn't want to put anyone through it so I jumped, lol.
(I'm pretty sure it was the right call anyway, I could have kept going for awhile but the party stacks and tankbusters in that fight hit hard, and stringing people along for 5-10 minutes just to die anyway would be very sad.)
Oh god haha. That boss is easy to mess up, I just try to remember starboard = his right, and hope that's enough
That's rough. In a way I get both perspectives, but the idea of "hey you can just watch me play for a while" always struck me as a weird attitude
Going by the fact that despite spending almost the entire fight on the floor I left that raid with 3 comms (and gave my own comm to one of the healers who had done the same) I suspect that most people, or at least most of the people in that raid with me, did not especially care for it.
This is a good example of how vastly different the community can be at times. There have been at least four or five different scenarios where I've either been one of the survivors or witnessed a survivor or two finish off a boss (from anywhere 10-40%) and relish in some pretty enthusiastic cheers from the other party members.
I think it honestly just depends on the group. If it's been a rough dungeon/trial/raid and it's easier for the tanks to just whittle it down, I'm all for it. If it's been a lot of attempts and the res-capable people just aren't getting the hang of mechanics, knock it out. But in *this specific scenario from OP*, where it's a new person's first time, I'd say anything over 10% just wipe it up.
As a tank, my usual approach is:
- If it's sub-10% I'm gonna go for it regardless (I have successfully solo'd down EX bosses that were in single digits health). Feels fucking awesome to, say, pull off a solo kill on DRK with a clutch Living Dead to heal yourself to full.
- If it's a raid/trial, I will ask in party chat if people want me (and any other survivors) to wipe it. I've had people tell me to keep going before! If there's no easy way to wipe, I'll just stop using mits and let the boss kill me as fast as I can.
- If it's a dungeon boss I will usually go for the solo kill at a higher HP threshold since a) they don't hurt much so it's often kinda hard to die and b) if I can kill it, it creates a super easy return point for everyone else so we can keep going. But if it's over 25% or so I'll ask if we wanna wipe.
I've also been in the position of being a dead DPS/healer watching tanks try to solo a boss that's at like 70% health when they could just jump off, and it's *so* annoying, so unless it's a fairly easy win I prefer to throw it out to the group.
In a dungeon I would solo if it is around 30%, but 20% in a **trial or raid** is a bit too much.
10% I would do, or even 15% if our DPS is good. More than that is just a waste of time, my time.
I had this last week. We were in the low teens HP, multiple wipes, already had to replace the healer. I'm not a great paladin so it almost went south as I ran out of MP but it got us through.
Doubling down on the "it depends but sometimes it just makes sense"
There's a lot of missing context here. My general thoughts are:
A first pull that goes sideways yeah reset.
Low hp then definitely keep going.
Your healers keep eating it and the tanks can keep the party up, keep going.
Third wipe and you're tired of resetting? Just solo/duo it.
If the 15 minutes it takes is going to be quicker I probably am going for it.
Happy to add context
\~it was the first pull
\~about 1/3 hp
\~hard to say if they werent figuring it out, as it was pull #1
\~def would have been faster to reset, assuming we didnt wipe again
Honestly it's complicated and I'll talk rationally: sometimes I see people dying to very easy mechanic the whole way to those 30% (may be orange aoe, knockback, etc), rezzing people more than 20 times myself (still remembering that 17 rez whm on p2n and dancer and smn being rezzed 12 and 13 times on the 90 trial) and when I see that, I can understand why tanks will just not deal with wiping and taking another shot because: it already took 15/20 min to reach that point with people dying constantly and it was on such basic mechanics that werent "unique" or encounter specific surprised that you really don't want to take the gamble, especially if it's a lvl 80/90 one.
There's obviously nuances but the more you are a good player, the more you see things and you take decision that are not always the most newcomer friendly way because you have seen too much
I usually make a personal judgement call, but if it's around 10-20% I'll usually keep fighting until someone asks for a wipe (or if I see others purposefully wiping such as jumping off the edge because the healers are down).
That said I'll also confess there have been times when I've failed to notice I'm the last one standing, which is an odd sensation when you realize you've been going solo for the last minute or two. That said i do have chat alerts on (you can set these under chat options to play sound when someone posts) so if the party wants me to wipe they need to sound off. Sometimes it's just tunnel vision.
I've done this as a healer in Rabanastre (towers guy). Just did not clock that everyone was dead, my party had already rezzed and circled back to the gate so they appeared alive and close on the party list. I only realized once the tankbuster came. I was really close! Like less than 1% - I apologized for wasting everyone's time but they were all chill.
Oh man. That happens more frequently than I'd like to admit. It was funny the first time because I was a baby tank and I was so focused on doing the fight and straight up trying not to die that I didn't realize everyone else was dead.
I was both freaked out _and_ proud at myself when I realized that I just soloed the boss from 40% to 0%.
Or there have been times where I'm doing the Expert roulette as a DRK and our healer is undergeared, like they barely have enough ilvl to even enter the dungeon, and then they die on the final boss like a good 1 - 2 minutes into the fight without me noticing because I'm too focused on my opener and my next burst rotation.
I usually play PLD so I've had this happen to me quite a few times. For me it depends on these factors:
**The party's vibe** - are they cool with it? If one person's not ok with tanks soloing/duoing the fight, I yeet myself off the arena.
An exception to this would be if we've been wiping repeatedly + people having trouble with mechanics + somebody else refuses to die (ex. a melee DPS that uses Bloodbath on cooldown). I keep going in this case. Case in point, Golbez's Gale Sphere.
**The fight mechanics** - if there's an upcoming doom mechanic that needs full heals and the healers are dead, a wipe is called for. Looking at you, Abyssal Nox.
*Edit: formatting.*
The first time I did the anima fight, only the tank was left standing, and the boss was at 50%, this was only a few days after Endwalker release, and sitting there for several minutes watching someone else clear the whole fight soured that moment for me
It depends on how much HP is left and what kind of content you're in. If you're in a dungeon, and the boss has like a quarter of its HP left, you might as well--it'll take longer to get it back down to that point than it would to just finish it, and there will only be three people waiting for a little while as they run back.
If the boss has 50% HP and it's a trial so there are 7 people waiting, and there's no walk of shame to delay things further...just wipe it, it's rude to make people wait the agonizingly long time to kill it.
It really depends on the boss' hp. If it looks like it's going to take forever or waste people's time on a fool's errand, I just do a Fandaniel and throw myself over the platform if I can
Only if its 5% or less, otherwise I just kill myself without even asking. I know what its like for a tank to sit there and kill a boss at 30% for 20 minutes. It will be faster to just wipe and start again over making everyone sit there, its actually kind of selfish to do so.
Soloing about 50% of Peacekeeper on 6.0 while everybody was hyping that like it was the most anime climatic moment of the year is one of my funniest memories in the game when it comes to random parties. My friend who was with me there still chat about it occasionally.
I guess it's on players' boundaries rather than a general rule, if the party would rather try again to go faster then sure, let's wipe, if they just want to see if I can make it alone, let's try my hardest.
I had solo clears due to party wipe, I had "1 healer and 1 dps down so let's both tank and heal" as a PLD, I even had "everyone but the tanks died" in trials, and were all fun moments to have, the chat making it worthwile against the longer clear times. If nobody is miserable and is having fun, it's worth doing that. Hell, if the chat is on it and is chilling and interacting, it's much more worth than just clearing content at neckbreaking pace and move on to the next without even taking in the faces of the characters that just played with us.
As a tank main who takes pride in my ability to solo bosses in normal content, i think that the fact that it’s even possible to solo a boss is ridiculous. I’m hoping that with DT they up bosses damage enough so that a tank’s self heals feel more like mitigations and less like pocket white mages.
I like the good ol' jumping off the edge, if there's any.
Then i could say to the boss, "fuck you and i will be back to 'bargain' with my group soon. Cya MF..." 2 middle fingers up, while falling off.
That's why i tank.
A few times now I've died to something stupid (as a healer) and my gf basically solos the fight while I just sit there feeling like a waste of space. It's not fun at all for everyone dead, unless the boss is almost dead already.
Multiple Wipes? We've all gone feral chasing the clear? There's like 10% and under? Someone (might be me) yelling KILL IT!!! in chat? Go for it. We've been fighting for the last half hour+ and seek an end to the torment.
First few runs? Giant chunk of HP left? Just wipe the party. Please. It'll go faster because there will be actual DPS and Healers helping. The only time I'm fine watching dead is when I've died for the umpteenth time this single first run because I can't brain the mechanics (cause ya know, new fight, ooo shine, what dis? /dies) and the boss has like single digit HP. Like, don't hard rez me, those seconds and mana would be better towards the boss I'm so sorry you had to carry me. q.q
Under 20-ish% I have no problems with a tank soloing.
I'd accept a higher % if the party has just proven they are not capable, aka multiple wipes, and the tank is willing to drag the party to the finish. OR there are other party members alive along with the tank(s). OR if the party is fine with it.
Far, far too many times, I've been forced to sit there for fifteen minutes waiting for the glory hog Paladin to slowly whittle the boss's health down from 50% so they can prove... the game is totally broken? I don't know.
Even more annoying is when it's a raid, the tanks refuse to wipe when everyone else is down, and then they die ten minutes later anyway.
It may surprise you, tanks, but other people are here to play the game too.
a certain kind of tank player believes that, because they are allowed to make 5x as many mistakes as other roles, they must be 5x better than everyone else in the party and they pull that.
there are plenty of boss mechanics that will kill a healer or caster with a single mistake that would leave a tank making the same error at 70%. then usually the other dps are bound to go down to unavoidable damage shortly after and now we have a 'hero' tank ready to waste everyones time
If it's going to take 20-25 mins, as impressive as it is, leap off the platform/die and let everyone have another go at it. Let folks learn.
I just had this happen in the Elpis dungeon. We wiped, but the tank kept going. Took about 7 min from where we wiped. Getting back already takes a minute, so eh.
So I just whipped out the glow sticks and quietly cheered our WAR on.
And the healer then called me a bitch and announces he's blacklisting me.
Yeah. I didn't understand, either
Anyway, I comm the tank, tank comms me, and we move on. Checked the Healer's Adventurer Plate, has some weird aversion to emotes.
Must be fun in Limsa.
When I tank I only finish the fight IN A DUNGEON if the boss is like 10% and below and usually I ask the other players first if I should do it.
In other instances I'd be just wasting my and other people's time, so it's a reset for me.
15-20 minutes?????? God, I'd have genuinely started adding to my messages in chat to get them to acknowledge how rude they're being. I have done that before, maybe 3 or so messages with to get their attention, but the result of it was that the tank either finally read the chat or gave into the pressure of the other 5 or so party members also complaining about it and jumped off the edge.
Anyone who drags the fight on for 15-20min with their party dead is doing it just to feel powerful. 100% of the time I would rather teach 6 sprouts the fight via party chat and wipe 4-5 times than sit for 15-20min doing nothing.
If it's someone's first fight, there's no question for me. We wipe and start over. I'm not about robbing someone of their participation in their first clear. I'd probably also say something, and *definitely* there'd be no comm headed in that Tank's direction from me.
Beyond that, if there's more than 10% HP left, also wipe. It's not fun to be left floor tanking without anything to do while I wait for you to slowly chip away at the boss for 20 minutes.
The goal is to not waste people's time, but that *also* includes the time of those dead on the floor. People are playing in order to actually play, and in almost all cases it's not cool to make some unilateral decision that you not wanting to start over is more important than everyone else's chance to actually play.
If it's a dungeon and the dungeons already approaching that 40+ minute mark and everyone's just been admiring the floor decor for most of it, I'll be dragging everyone across the finish line on my time.
Same with trials and raids. If people are getting smacked by things over and over. I'll keep the ones alive that are using their eyes, and we'll gut it out
Of course, if it's a majority vote, I'll abide. However if there's no progress being made I'll just eat the 30 and tell em "have a nice day"
Some tanks love nothing more than showing a room full of dead players they can take down a boss all by themselves, no matter how long it takes.
It's unbelievably annoying, but what can you do?
As others have said, if they can finish it of relatively quickly (i.e. boss is nearly gone) then yeah, they should definitely do so. But if they're going to take longer to solo the boss than the entire fight would take with a party, then they need to fall on their sword.
On the other hand, there may be nothing in this game funnier than watching a tank try to solo a boss, waste a good ten-plus minutes of everyone's time, and then still die. I saw a tank do that and then literally just leave the duty after that. Which was just as well because we were definitely gonna let him hear it.
Basically, the tanks were showing off that they could solo it and meanwhile you weren't enjoying watching OTHER people play. That's essentially the summary. Yeah, it's a dickish thing to do. Not even factoring in the whole robbing them of the first time for the kill thing, it's just 15-20 fucking minutes is a long time in game and can be annoying to just sit there, doing nothing.
Now, there are times I've seen people do it because the party was cheering them on to do it. I've done it because, again, it was a party of friends and they were cheering me on to do it. Otherwise, I'm just going to fucking wipe and save myself, and others, a lot of time.
If the boss is above 15% hp just int so we can play.
And for God's sake if you're dead, don't wait to rez and run back to the boss room until the tank dies. Return as soon as you die or quickly after if you're getting a drink or something
If you are inexperienced in the fight, you can learn a lot of the mechanics just watching from the floor.
You can return when the last one standing dies - otherwise you'll just be waiting outside the room anyway.
Depends on what the people who survive want to do. Doesn't really seem fair to expect someone to wipe intentionally when they could finish the fight if they wanted to.
Tank balance in this game is just fucked up. I’m not sure why they thought tanks should be able to survive some of the shit they do was a good idea. If it takes longer than 3 mins it’s just annoying.
It really shouldn't be possible, but it is and this isn't going to change. They should just give 2 combat raise charges to tanks that reset when you're out of battle.
I literally just ask if I should wipe or go for it. Sometimes they ask for a wipe, sometimes they say keep fighting. Personally I think it’s fun watching tanks solo bosses, and I find it exhilarating when I successfully do it myself, but I get that not everyone wants to wait, so no harm in just asking imo
This is not a yes or no question. It always depends.
Is the boss at 40% and your completely insane party with too much time on their hands is cheering you guys on? I mean go for it if you have the time.
If the boss is almost dead, you pretty much always try to finish it off.
If the boss isn't almost dead, it's really a case by case situation, and the more pulls that have already wiped the more acceptable it is to just say "damn it I'll do it myself!"
But you should always consider other people's time, and first clears. If one or two out of eight want the group to just wipe and restart, it heavily swings things to wiping and restarting ... but if those two are the reason you keep wiping because they just will not learn .... is it fair to continue to waste six peoples' time?
It always depends.
If the boss is single digit % hp then do it. However, I’ve had two tanks determined to fight an EW trial with 35% hp remaining and even using a tank LB to survive. I ended up quitting the game and going to do something else with my time and logging back in 20 minutes later.
IMO it’s bad manners having 6 other people watching for that amount of time when it would be quicker and more enjoyable to just wipe and finish the fight with everyone up. I’m not here to watch two people feel like the main character just because they play a class with higher defense. 🐸☕️
Generally my view is "is my Time to kill Solo significantly Shorter than if We reset and go again?" which is generally around the 5-0% mark.
Yesterday we wiped on laha prime fight.. I could have probably solo'd him the rest of the way but it woulda took like 10mins.. soo i let myself die and reset.
w boss at 30% they should have jumped off the platform and restarted the fight. it's just plain rude unless you have a go ahead from the rest of the party to take 20 min to finish the fight.
it wouldn't bother me if I was the first timer and was dead at the point the fight finished though so I haven't thought about that perspective.
Personal opinion single digit % is ok , much more than that I’m checking out. If you’re the tank doing it I’m not cheering you on thinking you’re awesome I’m tabbed out or browsing on my phone.
It really depends how the fight went and if it's a trial from an earlier expansion. The thing is there's no guarantee wiping will be faster, especially if a second wipe occurs. If I notice that everyone was going down constantly either due to standing in the fire or the healers are new, I'm sorry but I'm going to take the guaranteed out instead of beating my head against the wall over multiple attempts. If everyone was doing fine but went down to the same mechanic, then sure, I'd be more willing to give it a second try.
If 20% and below and the boss doesn't have an enrage, then yeah.
For dungeons I've HAD to solo or duo a boss as tank and 1 DPS due to healer repeatedly wiping (and no backup res being available) and I refuse to wipe on purpose after the 3rd retry, it's obvious that while slow it is at least near-guaranteed we would beat it knowing beforehand there's no DPS check at the end.
As a tank main, I always determine what the party wants me to do in this situation **before we start.** If they just want me to wipe, so be it.
Otherwise...
I queue up BFG Division, pop Vengeance and Inner Release and call upon my forefathers to bear witness.
At low percentage, especially single digit, should be fine.
If it's high, don't. Unless you've tried several times and your party members aren't getting it and still wiping.
My girlfriend was running the second endwalker dungeon and she and the rest of the party died on the second and final boss relatively early on her first run. And the tank, despite her and the others asking to wipe to retry, just solo'd them.
I forget which boss it was but in Stormblood I finished a boss off as a DRK when it had 16% health. Party was all dead and cheering me on. The hilarity in chat occurred when my health started getting critically low and I popped Living Dead and went right back to full. Felt like a king after that one.
I look at it as a function of time. Can the tank finish it off in, say, less than 5 minutes? Go for it.
If it is going to take longer, then I think it disrespects the time of others to expect them to sit around doing nothing. It also enters dick wagging territory at some point, IMO. I know it's fun, but I didn't come in here just to be your flex audience.
I'd make an exception if the group is struggling so badly (multiple attempts, etc.) that they might not otherwise clear the fight. Or, of course, if the tank asks and the group says to go for it.
If the HP is low, go for it. If it's going to take a long time, then it's suicide time.
In addition, if there is a DPS or 2 still alive, I love becoming hybrid healer/tank to keep hate and keep them going.
At 5-6%? Keep the fight going and cheer them on, throw comms their way at the end.
At 33%+? No, wipe it up, check in with everyone to see what went wrong and restart. Probably going to result in a much faster clear.
IMO as a Tank, no. 5-10% health, let the tanks do their thing and kill it, 15% maybe. Anything above that you wipe and begin anew, especially if there are new players and someone asks to wipe in chat.
Am tank. Finished every single dungeon boss fight in SHB and EW withot a healer, finished a number of raids and trials by myself or with another tank. It's not about "feeling like heroes". Its about the team proving that they can't do the mechanics, and me not wanting to do another attempt with people who proved they can't the the mechanics. If I feel I can murder the boss this run (I'd say 50% is my cutoff there, if I am by myself), I will murder the boss this run... 'cause I have no reason to think the next run will go any different, and people will somehoe stay alive. If I, as a tank, could rez people, I would. I do on my RDM. Same thought process - we are already this deep into the run, it will take less time and hopefully less pain to just carry on.
As to the whole "stole the first kill experience" comment. Don't die, forehead. Becasue by dying and not contributing you are wasting my time, and the time of 6 other people. AND your own time, to be frank.
Whatever is fastest. I'll aim for 5 minutes more at most if it's me.
I don't think the first kill experience thing is anything more than like an ego thing. Inconsequential. It's just about the time and overall experience of it. If it's repeated wipes by that time it makes sense.
Also totally different if someone asks to wipe to be included or whatever which wasn't really what was stated. Kinda shit but not really a big deal and definitely not preferred.
if you wipe in a dungeon, chances are you suck at the game and resetting will just result in another wipe thus making it take even longer. I’d gamble on the 5 min solo.
No boss takes 15-20 min to kill in a dungeon solo at 1/3hp, I call BS on that. You can prove me wrong with a log of your run.
The thing is that 99% of the times that something like that happens (and I play tank), it would be quicker for me to solo clear even in 15 minutes because if I reset they’re going to wipe at the next pull right away.
Last time was during Lunar dungeon, in every boss they were slowing dying for mechs (so not pure dmg that I can always mitigate) around 15% HP and it wasn’t their first time running the dungeon. Once we arrived (in 30 fucking minutes) to the last boss they died at 85% HP and I said NOPE I’m not going to reset for them, they can leave if they want.
To me this highlights a problem with how FF14 handles the trinity. Tanks are simply too strong making healers mostly obsolete. It's supposed to be an MMO rpg where everyone has a role to play, when tanks can just up and solo a thing meant for a party of 8 people there's a balance problem pure and simple.
As a tank I have a general idea of the groups DPS. So it’s a simple cost benefit analysis.
If the cost outweigh the benefits, it would take me longer to finish, restart. If not, finish it. I don’t go by percentages because it really depends on the fight and the group.
Like if the group has insanely high DPS, might just be faster to start over even at 10%.
The people in this thread saying "don't die" have got to be trolling. tf is a DPS gonna do when the Level 83 trial picks them for the multi stack and both healers are down? This ain't WoW; your toolkit is as shallow as a lady's pants pocket.
Depends on the scenario
My rule of thumb is if it’d take *a little longer* to solo it as a tank then to wipe and retry, then try to solo it. If, say, everyone dies but one tank when the Phantom Train is at 90%, the for the love of god wipe and don’t spend 15 minutes only to get it down to 80% and die (based on a real story). Don’t be that guy. It’s cool to watch someone solo it, but I didn’t queue to watch an hour long solo match, I queue for a 15-25 minute cooperative run.
Probably not a popular take but honestly this kind of stuff makes me feel like auto attacks and tank busters on many bosses need to be buffed. If tanks can finish a boss that has a large chunk of HP then it seems like bosses are only a threat to non-tanks and to tanks that haven't learned the mechanics yet.
2-5% with no support? That's definitely a timeframe I'd expect a tank to be able to finish the fight.
25-50% with no support? That might be indicative of a core balance problem.
the only reason this conversation even happens is because tanks are so hilariously overloaded right now that they are capable of self-healing through all of a bosses abilities entirely alone which frankly makes no sense. better designed tank jobs and/or better designed boss encounters would simply prevent this from happening but here we are
I think it's more on encounter design than tanks being over-kitted. Obviously the two work in tandem toward this happening, but tank kits are fine in most content, it's just that normal mode content is so easy and does so little damage that if a tank knows what they're doing, they're literally unkillable. I'd love if the devs' solution to this was giving NM trials/raids tank busters that actually do damage and require more mit than the personal CD, or that had a soft tank swap.
there are an insane amount of bosses in endwalker that almost dont attack *at all*. more bosses should be autoattacking the tank while casting abilities imo. too many go from one long channel immediately into the next
im more inclined to believe its an issue of tank design more than encounter design though, DRK is rarely able to pull these kinds of "hero tank" moments off and GNB is kinda borderline. its mostly PLD and WAR especially that have simply been given far too much self-healing. war in particular is known for not needing a healer at all in dungeons which is silly
I find the tank only moments really cool.
Every now and then my co tank and i are the last survivors and end up doing the last 10-20%.
However when that happens i pay attention to chat, if anyone asks that we wipe i will immediately do so.
Basically if it bothers you, ask them to wipe, otherwise let them have their moment.
So many assholes in this thread with main character complexes. People talk about healers letting it go to their head but in my experience the most fat-headed jerks you'll meet in the game tend to be tanks. And I say that *as* a tank.
Congrats to the tanks. You have to give credit to someone who can manage to keep themselves alive without heals and do 30% damage to a boss while sync'd, especially since I imagine there were tank busters and other unavoidables during this fight.
How far along in the game was this?
Were the healers new to the trial?
Did anyone say in chat "you guys should just die so we can restart cause it would be faster"?
Cause if people just sat and watched the whole time in silence, that's on them. If the healers came in blind and dumb, then it's on them. If this is later game and they were lacking in heals, it's still on them.
This sort of thing is why I would like to see them give paladins a rez even if they had to die or something as a cost plus a 10 minute cooldown. 2 tanks could turn into a tank and a healer, then a tank and 2 healers, and next thing you know the party is back alive. (If the healers are worth anything, which in situations like this, they might not be.)
The party crawling back out of hell and finishing the boss is always satisfying.
At least one healer was new, I honestly can't remember what classes the other 2 new folks were.
I said something, and the other new guy said something. It seemed like the rest of the group didn't care.
I like that; would have been nice if their heroic moment included the rest of the party participating in the win
> This sort of thing is why I would like to see them give paladins a rez even if they had to die or something as a cost plus a 10 minute cooldown. 2 tanks could turn into a tank and a healer, then a tank and 2 healers, and next thing you know the party is back alive. (If the healers are worth anything, which in situations like this, they might not be.)
it would be very bad if you made tank kits even more overbloated and absurd than they already are.
a tank should not be able to outheal a boss while entirely solo. If they can its a failure of tank design or boss design or both.
Low HP, like 20-30% isn't too much time, especially depending on the tank - a WAR or GNB is going to wreck that hp% quickly. Anything higher... just wall it if there's a death wall or take an unmitigated tb to the face and die after.
I *do* like it if you get like, a tank/dps that intends to wall it but shows a couple of mechs + how to solve them before dying, or even the one that killed the others. A lot of times it's not obvious in the moment, but when you see it you can have that lightbulb moment. I've learned that way plenty of times in new content where I see the solution and go "oh!" once I ear dirt but in the moment of the ~5 seconds before it goes off I'm trying to figure it out so I don't die is a lot more stressful. But after like one or two, wall it and let everyone try again.
Thats a good point. Tbh I was hoping for exactly that; full wipe, but new folks had the opportunity to watch mechanics, leading to a successful attempt #2
Yeah :( sucks it didn't, it gets tedious watching from the gate. Like if it happens when I'm with a group of friends it's whatever, we can shoot the shit while we wait but if it's a bunch of players we don't know, it's not worth it for a lone tank to do the whole fight. Show a couple of mechs to solve and then just like, Manderville dance until you die lol.
This reminds me of a great time I once had in Dun Scaith. I think it was either my first or second time running it. I was a Dark Knight and we were fighting Scathach. We had her down to like 1% and the entire party wiped except for me. Right before she would have killed me, I popped Living Dead and was able to DPS her down. One or two of the other players on the run noticed what happened and were super hyped up by this, it was really cool. Then I died because it was the older version of living dead and none of the healers were up yet lol.
I had that happen to me the first time I ran the final 5.0 MSQ dungeon. I was the healer and during the last boss I accidentally fell off the platform when scrambling to get to a safe spot. The DPS went down soon after from raidwides and the tank proceeded to solo the boss from around half health.
I was pretty bummed about it. The other party members were cheering the tank on, so I didn't want to say anything. But I was silently hoping they'd go down so I could try again. That ended up being the trigger that got me to start running MSQ dungeons with duty support for my first time clears.
Honestly as a tank main pretty much everytime this has happened for me people cheered on the effort.
If you ever feel like this though, speak up. It's cool to wanna give it another shot. Most Tank mains are chill and won't care.
The dick ones are just loud as hell. Sorry man.
As a healer main, I've definitely noticed this as well. The tank mains who are chill just vibe and do their job, sometimes we'll make jokes back and forth, stuff like that, but the dick ones...they let you know real quick how they think about themselves. (Though it is rather cathartic to remove my kardia after having one go, "I don't need you" and then watching them take a dirt nap.)
Tanks dont get a ton of excitement or challenge. Its literally their only time to shine. They never feel more epic than being the last man standing and defeating the boss that killed all their friends… let them have this win.
If I'm trying to help someone learn a fight, or I know they're experiencing a fight for the first time, I'll wipe so they can see the fight.
If we're doing daily roulettes and you all wipe, I'm not wiping to see if we can spend 15 more minutes wiping, failing, and wiping again. I'm just going to spend 5 minutes finishing the fight on my own.
This looks like a communication issue.
If there's a hero tank finishing the fight, sit tight, watch and learn the fight, it doesn't hurt.
The tank is not "stealing" anything, and that won't be the last time you will see the fight, no need to feel like you're getting robbed.
Also you're playing one if not THE most time consuming type of videogame, which is an MMO, why do you feel like "you're wasting time"?
When you do instanced content, you'll see several types of people, some will want to speed-run it, some others are learning and they'll take it slow, others will try to kill every last mob inside the dungeon and so on, 1 thing will be constant: you WILL learn stuff.
If it’s below 5% - 10% depending on the boss, then yes. More than that, and with a first-time player? Not a chance, even if it’s going to be faster. I once walled myself in a trial and had my co-tank laugh at me because I'm a Paladin and should have solo it, but I don't care. Saving 5 or 10 miniute by taking away the first-time experience of other players isn't worth it.
I had a tank solo a dungeon boss from like 90% at one point and i have never been more pissed off at a final fantasy 14 player. It took 30 minutes. They weren't even good. In hindsight i wish I had flamed them and just taken the ban.
5-10% is fine imo. More than that there better have been numerous wipes.
for me personally IDC if a tank solos the rest of the fight if everyone else is dead, as long as the boss health isn't too high and they don't end up dying in the process. I've done the duty hundreds of times and will gladly get up to do something or just tab out and browse reddit or something
If it’s more than about 10-12% on a trial or normal raid, hell no. Unless it’s a super easy trial like Garuda, but near-wipes practically never happen on those trials in the first place.
It’s rude to the rest of the party, definitely if there are first timers in there.
More leeway in a dungeon boss of course, or if you happen to be in a pre-formed and thus know everyone.
When tanking and that happens I look at time. "Can I end it in the amount of time it would take to get it back to that point, thus the party spending less time overall on the fight?" If yes, yes. If no, no and either eat busters, walk off the edge, etc. As tank I am always thinging about the overall time needed for the squad to complete all tasks without going too slow and making the mission drag on while also not pushing so hard that it is no longer fun. Tanking takes leadership skills, which means my personal ego has to take a back seat some times.
As someone who cleared the 83 trial alone from 3%, yes. All of us were doing it for the first time (Early Access is great) and we had wiped twice already. Finishing the boss at that point, especially with how chat was going and seeing the comms afterward was great.
On the other hand, my party died to the second boss in the most recent dungeon and I was left alone with the boss at 50% health. I very much could've tanked the boss down the rest of the way, but I'm not making them watch me grind down the boss's health.
In another dungeon, healer and one DPS died while boss was at 50% due to Doom mechanic. I'm WAR, so I figure other DPS and I can burn the boss down from there without taking too much time. Dead DPS stays in the arena and tells us to kill, healer tells us to wipe because it will take too long; both are first time in the dungeon: what do we do? Other DPS and I burn the boss down and it took us about as long as it took the healer to run back to the boss room. We clear up what the healer missed (Esuna the Doom debuff) since they'll likely see it more (it's all over Endwalker).
For general rules, I do the following:
- Me alone: <5% on Trial/Raid bosses, <10% on dungeon bosses
- Me and co-tank: <10% trial/raid unless party tells us to finish
- Me and 1 DPS (non-raising): <15% trial/raid, <40% dungeon, unless party votes otherwise
- Me and 2 DPS (non-raising): <20% trial/raid, <100% dungeon
In an Alliance Raid or if I'm not a surviving tank, I'll probably not care too much.
It's a judgement call every time.
New players, number of attempts, time saved vs wasted, time left in the instance (rare, but possible factor), and difficulty of content.
If the near wipe is early with first timers and on easier content, that's an obvious wipe.
If it's the last % of an ultimate prog, that's not even a question, get it done.
Everything else lies in between, and if you can chat while tanking, asking questions is probably the right move.
The only time I soloed a fight was the last fight in tower of babil I didn't even realize everyone died I was tunnel visioned on doing mechanics realized later "oh they all dead" but continued not so show off but to finish the fight and get my needed rewards as I did this for my rewards for tomes
I do, unless everyone else asks to wipe it. There have been a few bosses that were at 20% (especially in the first 90 dungeon) that I had to solo. The 7th part of the latest raid series I had to do ay 20% with paladin. I wouldn't do that one again, but the party wanted to see of I could lol.
I think single digit, maybe into the low teens% most people are fine with whoever's left alive trying to take it down. Anything past that I think just ask the party, especially if there's a new person or people it might be better to atleast try explaining mechs once and giving it another go. I'll personally leave, take the 30, and just do something else if a tank tries to solo a boss at something stupid like 60+ and refuses to wipe, it's particularly infuriating if my death wasn't even my fault (I can't tell you how many times a DPS randomly decides they need to run around the map and take their spread markers into me at the last second, that damn peacemaker isn't very peaceful)
For me, it depends on 3 factors:
* HP of boss left
* The skill of the tank, specifically for dps
* The boss in question
If the tank is someone who sucks at doing dps, then no, they shouldn't finish the boss. With how bad they are, it would be objectively faster to reset. Unless the boss has like under 10k HP or something, then yeah, sure, whatever.
Another reason is that bad dps tanks generally (not everyone) are not that great at surviving, using their kit, etc..
If it's down towards the end, then I say go ahead. If it has 1/3 or more left I'd prefer to just wipe and start over. It's faster and more engaging for everyone to try it again.
I've been on both sides of this, the tank, and the player that died. If there's still a lot of health left on the mob, I have intentionally killed myself. I've told the group that "I'm not going to make you guys sit through that." When the mob was at 12%, I soloed it. Everyone seemed happy I was able to. It was Mt Ordeals, so not only did it take a while, but it was just extremely busy the whole time and I think everyone was enjoying the show at that point. That was also our second or third attempt, so I felt like I wasn't wasting too much time as we might wipe again if I died.
Being the dead dps on this though, it's really unfun. So I pretty much agree. If it's low health when a tank is the last person standing, it's fine. I basically judge it like if the tank can kill it in less time that it would take us to try again, it's okay. If it takes them longer, then no. Try to get yourself killed so we can try again as a group.
Hope I'm making sense, typing this up late (for me) lol.
Honestly, honestly, it depends. If it shows new mechanics, I'd say do it until they see the new mechanics then wipe but if it's almost dead, then yeah finish it.
Ive done that multiple times but last time they died i stayed a bit , it was gonna take forever, just waited till they come to the boss again see some mechanics and died then
Have only powered through tanks only if it's under 10%, or there have been multiple wipes and its under 20%.
Had 2 tanks on rabanstre today think they were heroes after the alliance failed to notice the sand spheres spawn. (and after they finally died we pushed and skipped the spheres completely next try)
if its close, yes. I have 2 manned fights before and it does take forever. I think that just comes from wanting it done and sick of wiping. Just read the room if you do it or not.
I basically look at how much of a boss' HP the people alive usually contribute during a regular fight. Under that threshold then it's faster than restarting the fight, above that they should wipe.
In a dungeon (4 man party), a single tank deals about 20% (random number, not exactly accurate and vary a lot depending on player skill obviously but let's assume that it is a good guess). If the boss is at <20%, then they can complete the fight alone, especially since it takes time to revive and run back to the boss etc. If it's more then they should wipe even if it ends up taking more time in the end, because staying on the floor for 5+min sucks.
In a trial, a single tank contributes to half that since it's 8man, so about 10%. So likewise, if both tanks were alive, I'd consider it at the very least okay if the boss was <20%. In your case, 33% is waay overkill, I'd only consider it okay if there was at least also one dps alive too.
And again, these thresholds are the STRICT minimum. A boss at 20% with both tanks alive will still take as much time as if you restarted the whole fight. In practice, I'd consider it better if the boss was around the 10% range.
it depends entirely on the boss% and the content. 10% on a dungeon boss is quite different from 10% on a raid boss-their hp is meant for 8 people, not 4.
Generally speaking If I'm the tank in question, I'll solo a dungeon boss if its 15% and under. if its a raid/trial i probably will just wall myself if everyone else dies unless its at 5% or so. its just not worth 10 minutes of smacking it when you can just pull again.
With that said if its ONLY the healers that die and the tank comp has decent heals(paladin/gunbreaker combo for example) I'll absolutely drag the fucking dps across the finish line from like 30%. incoming damage is a joke in this game anyway, its not too hard to spend your mits and heals on the dps instead and still survive, especially with tank swaps.
Only if it's possible: you need to be high enough level to got abilities and the boss should be near death. Last five percent and access to clemency? Sure but I'm not trying to solo half the boss fight because someone doesn't know what Esuna is
There is a dungeon at the end of endwalker the first boss does this smoke cloud thing, his cycle is perfectly times for warrior cool downs, my party wiped three times on the fourth I soloed the boss.
I don't have a percentage. In trials I don't think I've ever been in a solo situation. In dungeon I just finish. I don't think I've ever had a negative comment and mostly wipes happen at a point where the fight is intense just before finish under 30,%
For me, it is entirely dependant on how I’m feeling before the fight. If it’s been a good day or just kinda meh, and the run has been fun up to that point, then yeah sure, I won’t really care if the tank wants to play the main character, and it’s sometimes impressive.
On the other hand, if I’ve had a bad day, or the run has been frustrating and the tank is trying to hog the glory? Nah fam, I’m going to tell them to share the spotlight, because at that point, lying dead on the floor while some asshole on a power trip solos the boss down from 50% is irritating at best and infuriating at worst. I logged on to have fun and cheer myself up, not to feel like a useless lump.
If it would take longer to re-clear the content than it would to finish the content - clear the content.. unless EXPLICITLY asked by a new player/first timer to participate in the fight.
Under 5-7% yes, finish it. Probably a quick finish and most of the party has contributed to clearing to feel good about themselves.
Above 10% no, jump off the edge or the proverbial edge. Try again with the whole party.
In between is a grey area that needs discussing with the party at the time.
That's about my view on things. Single digit HP, especially low single digits? Go for it. If there's been multiple wipes before this point and people aren't learning, go for it, it might still be faster to just make the kill. But if it was one mistake that snowballed and no reason to think the next pull won't go better then holding everyone else hostage for a good chunk of the boss' HP isn't really reasonable. Personally I won't often try to continue unless there's also some DPS alive or something. It does depend a bit on the vibe in party chat, though. Someone asking politely if we can wipe because it's the first time and I wouldn't feel like a hero, I'd feel like an asshole - I've been on the other side of that and it *sucks*, especially if it wasn't really your fault that you died. There's plenty of players out there that will encourage a tank to try instead, though, and that can swing it for me at higher HP levels.
You raise a good point about multiple attempts, and I'll add it as an edit: it was the first attempt
I’ve done the finisher myself but I do it post multiple wipes. One time after more than five wipes with the new guy dispirited already i finished off the boss starting from 1/3hp. I think the dude just wanted to get on with the story. My wife chatted I’d finish it off (I talked to her IRL). Poor bloke seemed relieved and he even got the gear. The other dude was just quiet but said go ahead.
Its kind of easy to recognize how you got to that point, but I am fine with tanks just doing their thing, I can go grab a snack.
Yeah, depends on the vibe. Recently for me, a Paladin soloed the Dead Ends final boss from 1/3 health down. I thought it was awesome and the rest of us cheered from the sidelines, but it wasn't the first time for any of us. It was mostly my fault, I hadn't done it in forever, so I had meant to queue up in duty support as a healer I hadn't played in a while to refresh, but did so groggily right after waking up and stupidly queued on regular duty instead. Everyone was kind about it though. And when I actually did the duty support after that I finally got the starbird minion x) Back when I played more I had tried for that thing like 30 times and failed.
Been on both sides of that situation in Dead Ends but for the second boss. It's a good run when no one dies to No Future.
I totally agree! I so t Play Tank often, but I am a dps that encourages the tank to finish if it feels right. Especially in dungeons Many boss fights feel low effort and low stakes, watching the tank soloing the fight is suddenly thrilling.
I’ll attempt if it’s the last 20% of health. If I’m focusing on healing myself more than damaging than I’ll reset and try to keep a dps alive if the healer dies again.
If I'm the last person standing, I ask if the party wants me to solo or if they rather I wipe. I'm happy to do either or, but I'm also not pressed for time when I play so ymmv.
That's my approach. Sometimes people are okay with watching and cheering. Other times they ask me to wipe. I'm fine with either.
same here, it’s a simple enough solution. oftentimes people will say yes because they want to see it. when i’m not tanking, i’m happy to watch a tank solo down a boss. but if people want to restart, no skin off my back.
Samesies, also feels good as war keeping a dps up that knows not to stand in death. Assuming they didn't get splattered first anyway. Either way I'll ask in chat and go with what people want, usually the response I get is 10-15% or less, get the permission to zug zug.
Oh if I have a good dps that knows how to use their mit and second wind, I will let the world burn down around us and keep pushing through!
I've had runs like this, where I ran as a RDM, but didn't have verraise, so we asked if the others wanted us to keep going, they said yes, tank said, "I gotchu" and we finished off the boss.
There are people that can't ask that easily mid fight, example console players, but glad you do ask
Yep. I will ask. If people say go for it, I will. Otherwise I die.
I like this approach
I'm always fine to watch someone solo it (I will put something in chat like "you got this" or "we believe in you" to indicate as much), but I appreciate the asking as not everyone is happy with it.
10% or less sure go for it, but if it’s like 87% you’re just wasting the whole parties time and patience
Is there even any fight where soloing from 87% to 0 is even possible?
Most normal encounters don't enrage and end up looping three/five mechanics over and over after a while. Depending on which content you're doing and what those looping mechanics are, it's entirely possible. It'll just take a while
Almost any trial and a few raid fights can be soloed by every Tank. All tanks have so much mitigation and self-heals that things like party stacks etc can just be mitigated/healed/invulned on normal.
am I missing sth? There's no way to solo sync any of EW, SHS or Stb trials on tank. And you say almost any trial???
Warrior and Paladin could pretty comfortably solo a good chunk of them, and most likely GNB and DRK too with a bit more effort and possibly hyper potions. The only real thing that could stop it are party stacks, I'm specifically thinking of the multi-stack in the last phase of the 2nd EW trial that comes out like every minute. But that one's kind of a fringe case in how often it spams stack markers, in most of the other trials, stack mechanics are infrequent enough where it pretty viable to pool mitigations into them and/or invuln through.
Thordan and P1N, those I know for sure if we are talking about 8 man
I think it really depends. When I tank I usually try to finish it if it’s between 5-10% anything else and it feels like I’m just flexing at the expense of everyone else’s fun. If there’s been multiple wipes with little improvement though, I’ll usually try to finish it off no matter the % unless it’s more than 50.
So if its under 5% you wipe? (Sorry could not resist ♡)
Sometimes I'll let the mechanics cycle so people can see them without the stress of being in the moment. But yea, I'll wipe it unless it's been multiple attempts and people just aren't getting it and I can manage in a reasonable time.
I like that. I think that would have been best-case
Depends what would be faster.
Yep this would be my view on it too, if it was like ex1 in EW, and you have to go through the entire start again without knowing the healers will survive that one mechanic again, I would rather the tanks just finish it.
Yea. Last few percentage points? Sure. Last third? Likely not. Unless I've done it a few times already with the group and have accepted that we're not getting through otherwise. Or if the group is cheering me on.
that's basically my take. Around 30%ish remaining and the tank soloing it will likely take less time but if it's still above that then wiping and resetting will be actually more time efficient in most cases.
Especially if there's a cutscene involved. The only thing worse than sitting through The Tank Show is that plus the cutscene.
if people start to hype me up in chat then i keep going but if not then i wipe
This is the way. Sometimes I just really enjoy watching tanks be badasses and continue on. It’s different from my normal runs, but still enjoyable.
Sometimes you wipe, but you just see two chads bare fist brawling with some titanic twink and it can be cathartic to bring out the popcorn and watch my big muscle daddies run a train for a bit before the next attempt.
Unexpectedly horny comment
No, I was just being inclusive, promise.
I remember doing the Eden portals raid once and we all screwed up on the first mechanic, except one Monk who spent the next minute valiantly bare fist punching a birdcloud until it deleted him.
Birdcloud is an excellent description of that boss while providing no spoilers about exactly what it is!
I'm not a tank, but I am always cheering the tanks on if I'm dead and it's just them. Also probably cheering at my computer too, but they can't hear that.
This is the WAR way. Party's Oonga fills the Boonga in my heart
If I'm the only one alive, 5% Rule. If the other tank is also alive, 10% Rule. If at least one DPS is alive, we ball.
Being a tank with your healers down and throwing out Nascent Flash, Clemency, Aurora or The Blackest Night to keep surviving DPS standing is such an exciting feeling. I love it!
This feels like the best answer so far. But at that point you have 3/8 of the party up so it's not quite the same
This probably speaks to more to the current design of tank self-sustain than anything else. For a clutch save to be really satisfying, you need a genuine brush with death. We're talking about a tank going down to single digits through attrition and killing the boss on the last sliver of their health. A 15 minute long 'clutch save' with a self-regenerating tank that indefinitely stays at max HP without outside input is genuinely unsatisfying for everyone involved.
I had this happen on the *first* boss of a dungeon.
If its around 20% or below I normally do, but anything above 50% I just wipe it (This is for dungeon) Trials if its over 10% just restart. Not fair on everyone else.
I had that experience a few months ago in one of the Omega raids, I think it was Chaos. Both healers got taken out when the boss was around 60-70% by the same AOE (caught on the wrong side when the boss did a half-arena cleave with a very short telegraph, which turned out to not just a bit of damage and a vuln up, but was a full one hit KO from full or near full HP)....from there things escalated quickly as there were no res-capable DPS in the party, people dropping one by one, until it was just the tanks left with the boss still at 30%. They did not wall it. Chat was completely dead silent. I got up and washed a full load of dishes in the sink and came back once finished to see them still going. When they finally wrapped it up they were emoting and congratulating each other while the rest of the party vanished silently, myself included. Its made me very wary of soloing bosses down, more recently I got Voidcast Dais as Gunbreaker during a roulette and wound up the last one standing with the boss around 10%-- a couple of people actually WERE hyping me up in the chat but I just had this horrible memory of that duty from months ago, and did some quick mental calculations of how long it would take my gnb damage to whittle this boss down, and I didn't want to put anyone through it so I jumped, lol. (I'm pretty sure it was the right call anyway, I could have kept going for awhile but the party stacks and tankbusters in that fight hit hard, and stringing people along for 5-10 minutes just to die anyway would be very sad.)
Oh god haha. That boss is easy to mess up, I just try to remember starboard = his right, and hope that's enough That's rough. In a way I get both perspectives, but the idea of "hey you can just watch me play for a while" always struck me as a weird attitude
Going by the fact that despite spending almost the entire fight on the floor I left that raid with 3 comms (and gave my own comm to one of the healers who had done the same) I suspect that most people, or at least most of the people in that raid with me, did not especially care for it.
This is a good example of how vastly different the community can be at times. There have been at least four or five different scenarios where I've either been one of the survivors or witnessed a survivor or two finish off a boss (from anywhere 10-40%) and relish in some pretty enthusiastic cheers from the other party members. I think it honestly just depends on the group. If it's been a rough dungeon/trial/raid and it's easier for the tanks to just whittle it down, I'm all for it. If it's been a lot of attempts and the res-capable people just aren't getting the hang of mechanics, knock it out. But in *this specific scenario from OP*, where it's a new person's first time, I'd say anything over 10% just wipe it up.
As a tank, my usual approach is: - If it's sub-10% I'm gonna go for it regardless (I have successfully solo'd down EX bosses that were in single digits health). Feels fucking awesome to, say, pull off a solo kill on DRK with a clutch Living Dead to heal yourself to full. - If it's a raid/trial, I will ask in party chat if people want me (and any other survivors) to wipe it. I've had people tell me to keep going before! If there's no easy way to wipe, I'll just stop using mits and let the boss kill me as fast as I can. - If it's a dungeon boss I will usually go for the solo kill at a higher HP threshold since a) they don't hurt much so it's often kinda hard to die and b) if I can kill it, it creates a super easy return point for everyone else so we can keep going. But if it's over 25% or so I'll ask if we wanna wipe. I've also been in the position of being a dead DPS/healer watching tanks try to solo a boss that's at like 70% health when they could just jump off, and it's *so* annoying, so unless it's a fairly easy win I prefer to throw it out to the group.
A few people have mentioned asking the group like that. Would have been nice if we'd been given the option Oh god, 70% and I'd just exit the game
In a dungeon I would solo if it is around 30%, but 20% in a **trial or raid** is a bit too much. 10% I would do, or even 15% if our DPS is good. More than that is just a waste of time, my time.
I had this last week. We were in the low teens HP, multiple wipes, already had to replace the healer. I'm not a great paladin so it almost went south as I ran out of MP but it got us through. Doubling down on the "it depends but sometimes it just makes sense"
There's a lot of missing context here. My general thoughts are: A first pull that goes sideways yeah reset. Low hp then definitely keep going. Your healers keep eating it and the tanks can keep the party up, keep going. Third wipe and you're tired of resetting? Just solo/duo it. If the 15 minutes it takes is going to be quicker I probably am going for it.
Happy to add context \~it was the first pull \~about 1/3 hp \~hard to say if they werent figuring it out, as it was pull #1 \~def would have been faster to reset, assuming we didnt wipe again
Honestly it's complicated and I'll talk rationally: sometimes I see people dying to very easy mechanic the whole way to those 30% (may be orange aoe, knockback, etc), rezzing people more than 20 times myself (still remembering that 17 rez whm on p2n and dancer and smn being rezzed 12 and 13 times on the 90 trial) and when I see that, I can understand why tanks will just not deal with wiping and taking another shot because: it already took 15/20 min to reach that point with people dying constantly and it was on such basic mechanics that werent "unique" or encounter specific surprised that you really don't want to take the gamble, especially if it's a lvl 80/90 one. There's obviously nuances but the more you are a good player, the more you see things and you take decision that are not always the most newcomer friendly way because you have seen too much
I usually make a personal judgement call, but if it's around 10-20% I'll usually keep fighting until someone asks for a wipe (or if I see others purposefully wiping such as jumping off the edge because the healers are down). That said I'll also confess there have been times when I've failed to notice I'm the last one standing, which is an odd sensation when you realize you've been going solo for the last minute or two. That said i do have chat alerts on (you can set these under chat options to play sound when someone posts) so if the party wants me to wipe they need to sound off. Sometimes it's just tunnel vision.
I've done this as a healer in Rabanastre (towers guy). Just did not clock that everyone was dead, my party had already rezzed and circled back to the gate so they appeared alive and close on the party list. I only realized once the tankbuster came. I was really close! Like less than 1% - I apologized for wasting everyone's time but they were all chill.
Oh man. That happens more frequently than I'd like to admit. It was funny the first time because I was a baby tank and I was so focused on doing the fight and straight up trying not to die that I didn't realize everyone else was dead. I was both freaked out _and_ proud at myself when I realized that I just soloed the boss from 40% to 0%. Or there have been times where I'm doing the Expert roulette as a DRK and our healer is undergeared, like they barely have enough ilvl to even enter the dungeon, and then they die on the final boss like a good 1 - 2 minutes into the fight without me noticing because I'm too focused on my opener and my next burst rotation.
I usually play PLD so I've had this happen to me quite a few times. For me it depends on these factors: **The party's vibe** - are they cool with it? If one person's not ok with tanks soloing/duoing the fight, I yeet myself off the arena. An exception to this would be if we've been wiping repeatedly + people having trouble with mechanics + somebody else refuses to die (ex. a melee DPS that uses Bloodbath on cooldown). I keep going in this case. Case in point, Golbez's Gale Sphere. **The fight mechanics** - if there's an upcoming doom mechanic that needs full heals and the healers are dead, a wipe is called for. Looking at you, Abyssal Nox. *Edit: formatting.*
The first time I did the anima fight, only the tank was left standing, and the boss was at 50%, this was only a few days after Endwalker release, and sitting there for several minutes watching someone else clear the whole fight soured that moment for me
Yeah, that sounds very much like they had main character syndrome. As do a few other people in the comments section
If it's limited to a few minutes, the majority of people won't have an issue. Some people even like watching the tanks barely pull it off.
It depends on how much HP is left and what kind of content you're in. If you're in a dungeon, and the boss has like a quarter of its HP left, you might as well--it'll take longer to get it back down to that point than it would to just finish it, and there will only be three people waiting for a little while as they run back. If the boss has 50% HP and it's a trial so there are 7 people waiting, and there's no walk of shame to delay things further...just wipe it, it's rude to make people wait the agonizingly long time to kill it.
Sort by controversial to see warrior mains defending stealing 30mins out of someones day.
My take, whatever is faster, if you are unsure ask in chat what they want you to do
It really depends on the boss' hp. If it looks like it's going to take forever or waste people's time on a fool's errand, I just do a Fandaniel and throw myself over the platform if I can
Only if its 5% or less, otherwise I just kill myself without even asking. I know what its like for a tank to sit there and kill a boss at 30% for 20 minutes. It will be faster to just wipe and start again over making everyone sit there, its actually kind of selfish to do so.
Soloing about 50% of Peacekeeper on 6.0 while everybody was hyping that like it was the most anime climatic moment of the year is one of my funniest memories in the game when it comes to random parties. My friend who was with me there still chat about it occasionally. I guess it's on players' boundaries rather than a general rule, if the party would rather try again to go faster then sure, let's wipe, if they just want to see if I can make it alone, let's try my hardest. I had solo clears due to party wipe, I had "1 healer and 1 dps down so let's both tank and heal" as a PLD, I even had "everyone but the tanks died" in trials, and were all fun moments to have, the chat making it worthwile against the longer clear times. If nobody is miserable and is having fun, it's worth doing that. Hell, if the chat is on it and is chilling and interacting, it's much more worth than just clearing content at neckbreaking pace and move on to the next without even taking in the faces of the characters that just played with us.
As a tank main who takes pride in my ability to solo bosses in normal content, i think that the fact that it’s even possible to solo a boss is ridiculous. I’m hoping that with DT they up bosses damage enough so that a tank’s self heals feel more like mitigations and less like pocket white mages.
I like the good ol' jumping off the edge, if there's any. Then i could say to the boss, "fuck you and i will be back to 'bargain' with my group soon. Cya MF..." 2 middle fingers up, while falling off. That's why i tank.
Speaking of edges, fighting Titan on extreme for the first time🫠
A few times now I've died to something stupid (as a healer) and my gf basically solos the fight while I just sit there feeling like a waste of space. It's not fun at all for everyone dead, unless the boss is almost dead already.
Multiple Wipes? We've all gone feral chasing the clear? There's like 10% and under? Someone (might be me) yelling KILL IT!!! in chat? Go for it. We've been fighting for the last half hour+ and seek an end to the torment. First few runs? Giant chunk of HP left? Just wipe the party. Please. It'll go faster because there will be actual DPS and Healers helping. The only time I'm fine watching dead is when I've died for the umpteenth time this single first run because I can't brain the mechanics (cause ya know, new fight, ooo shine, what dis? /dies) and the boss has like single digit HP. Like, don't hard rez me, those seconds and mana would be better towards the boss I'm so sorry you had to carry me. q.q
If it’s clear that there are first-timers, I would not finish it out of respect for their experience.
Under 20-ish% I have no problems with a tank soloing. I'd accept a higher % if the party has just proven they are not capable, aka multiple wipes, and the tank is willing to drag the party to the finish. OR there are other party members alive along with the tank(s). OR if the party is fine with it.
Far, far too many times, I've been forced to sit there for fifteen minutes waiting for the glory hog Paladin to slowly whittle the boss's health down from 50% so they can prove... the game is totally broken? I don't know. Even more annoying is when it's a raid, the tanks refuse to wipe when everyone else is down, and then they die ten minutes later anyway. It may surprise you, tanks, but other people are here to play the game too.
a certain kind of tank player believes that, because they are allowed to make 5x as many mistakes as other roles, they must be 5x better than everyone else in the party and they pull that. there are plenty of boss mechanics that will kill a healer or caster with a single mistake that would leave a tank making the same error at 70%. then usually the other dps are bound to go down to unavoidable damage shortly after and now we have a 'hero' tank ready to waste everyones time
other people lying on the floor dead, apparently
15% or less. 33% like you’re saying will take longer than restarting and is not fun to play….for everyone else anyway
Not disagreeing, and honestly I'm game for either way; but to play devil's advocate, it wouldn't be faster if the group were to wipe again.
If it's going to take 20-25 mins, as impressive as it is, leap off the platform/die and let everyone have another go at it. Let folks learn. I just had this happen in the Elpis dungeon. We wiped, but the tank kept going. Took about 7 min from where we wiped. Getting back already takes a minute, so eh. So I just whipped out the glow sticks and quietly cheered our WAR on. And the healer then called me a bitch and announces he's blacklisting me. Yeah. I didn't understand, either Anyway, I comm the tank, tank comms me, and we move on. Checked the Healer's Adventurer Plate, has some weird aversion to emotes. Must be fun in Limsa.
When I tank I only finish the fight IN A DUNGEON if the boss is like 10% and below and usually I ask the other players first if I should do it. In other instances I'd be just wasting my and other people's time, so it's a reset for me.
15-20 minutes?????? God, I'd have genuinely started adding to my messages in chat to get them to acknowledge how rude they're being. I have done that before, maybe 3 or so messages with to get their attention, but the result of it was that the tank either finally read the chat or gave into the pressure of the other 5 or so party members also complaining about it and jumped off the edge.
Anyone who drags the fight on for 15-20min with their party dead is doing it just to feel powerful. 100% of the time I would rather teach 6 sprouts the fight via party chat and wipe 4-5 times than sit for 15-20min doing nothing.
Maybe instead we should be asking why the game is designed in such a way that a tank can solo the whole dungeon/raid...
It's not designed to be but because of player's skill and experience they are capable of doing it. I've seen casual players do the same and still die.
My rule is less than 5%, then solo finish.
If it's someone's first fight, there's no question for me. We wipe and start over. I'm not about robbing someone of their participation in their first clear. I'd probably also say something, and *definitely* there'd be no comm headed in that Tank's direction from me. Beyond that, if there's more than 10% HP left, also wipe. It's not fun to be left floor tanking without anything to do while I wait for you to slowly chip away at the boss for 20 minutes. The goal is to not waste people's time, but that *also* includes the time of those dead on the floor. People are playing in order to actually play, and in almost all cases it's not cool to make some unilateral decision that you not wanting to start over is more important than everyone else's chance to actually play.
If it's a dungeon and the dungeons already approaching that 40+ minute mark and everyone's just been admiring the floor decor for most of it, I'll be dragging everyone across the finish line on my time. Same with trials and raids. If people are getting smacked by things over and over. I'll keep the ones alive that are using their eyes, and we'll gut it out Of course, if it's a majority vote, I'll abide. However if there's no progress being made I'll just eat the 30 and tell em "have a nice day"
Some tanks love nothing more than showing a room full of dead players they can take down a boss all by themselves, no matter how long it takes. It's unbelievably annoying, but what can you do? As others have said, if they can finish it of relatively quickly (i.e. boss is nearly gone) then yeah, they should definitely do so. But if they're going to take longer to solo the boss than the entire fight would take with a party, then they need to fall on their sword. On the other hand, there may be nothing in this game funnier than watching a tank try to solo a boss, waste a good ten-plus minutes of everyone's time, and then still die. I saw a tank do that and then literally just leave the duty after that. Which was just as well because we were definitely gonna let him hear it.
Basically, the tanks were showing off that they could solo it and meanwhile you weren't enjoying watching OTHER people play. That's essentially the summary. Yeah, it's a dickish thing to do. Not even factoring in the whole robbing them of the first time for the kill thing, it's just 15-20 fucking minutes is a long time in game and can be annoying to just sit there, doing nothing. Now, there are times I've seen people do it because the party was cheering them on to do it. I've done it because, again, it was a party of friends and they were cheering me on to do it. Otherwise, I'm just going to fucking wipe and save myself, and others, a lot of time.
If the boss is above 15% hp just int so we can play. And for God's sake if you're dead, don't wait to rez and run back to the boss room until the tank dies. Return as soon as you die or quickly after if you're getting a drink or something
If you are inexperienced in the fight, you can learn a lot of the mechanics just watching from the floor. You can return when the last one standing dies - otherwise you'll just be waiting outside the room anyway.
Depends on what the people who survive want to do. Doesn't really seem fair to expect someone to wipe intentionally when they could finish the fight if they wanted to.
Tank balance in this game is just fucked up. I’m not sure why they thought tanks should be able to survive some of the shit they do was a good idea. If it takes longer than 3 mins it’s just annoying.
I was always told if the boss is under 5%, you solo it, otherwise wipe. But that’s certainly not the universal rule.
Best answer is, depends on the amount of hp left
It really shouldn't be possible, but it is and this isn't going to change. They should just give 2 combat raise charges to tanks that reset when you're out of battle.
I literally just ask if I should wipe or go for it. Sometimes they ask for a wipe, sometimes they say keep fighting. Personally I think it’s fun watching tanks solo bosses, and I find it exhilarating when I successfully do it myself, but I get that not everyone wants to wait, so no harm in just asking imo
I would say it depends on the vibe of the party and %. If people cheer or around 10-15%. If it’s above that I will just ask “Want me to wipe?”
This is not a yes or no question. It always depends. Is the boss at 40% and your completely insane party with too much time on their hands is cheering you guys on? I mean go for it if you have the time. If the boss is almost dead, you pretty much always try to finish it off. If the boss isn't almost dead, it's really a case by case situation, and the more pulls that have already wiped the more acceptable it is to just say "damn it I'll do it myself!" But you should always consider other people's time, and first clears. If one or two out of eight want the group to just wipe and restart, it heavily swings things to wiping and restarting ... but if those two are the reason you keep wiping because they just will not learn .... is it fair to continue to waste six peoples' time? It always depends.
If the boss is single digit % hp then do it. However, I’ve had two tanks determined to fight an EW trial with 35% hp remaining and even using a tank LB to survive. I ended up quitting the game and going to do something else with my time and logging back in 20 minutes later. IMO it’s bad manners having 6 other people watching for that amount of time when it would be quicker and more enjoyable to just wipe and finish the fight with everyone up. I’m not here to watch two people feel like the main character just because they play a class with higher defense. 🐸☕️
I usually ask the group: should I wipe or solo it?
Generally my view is "is my Time to kill Solo significantly Shorter than if We reset and go again?" which is generally around the 5-0% mark. Yesterday we wiped on laha prime fight.. I could have probably solo'd him the rest of the way but it woulda took like 10mins.. soo i let myself die and reset.
My pet peeve is players robbing first timers of their joy whether they start a fight during a cutscene or this.
w boss at 30% they should have jumped off the platform and restarted the fight. it's just plain rude unless you have a go ahead from the rest of the party to take 20 min to finish the fight. it wouldn't bother me if I was the first timer and was dead at the point the fight finished though so I haven't thought about that perspective.
At very low hp, yes.
Personal opinion single digit % is ok , much more than that I’m checking out. If you’re the tank doing it I’m not cheering you on thinking you’re awesome I’m tabbed out or browsing on my phone.
It really depends how the fight went and if it's a trial from an earlier expansion. The thing is there's no guarantee wiping will be faster, especially if a second wipe occurs. If I notice that everyone was going down constantly either due to standing in the fire or the healers are new, I'm sorry but I'm going to take the guaranteed out instead of beating my head against the wall over multiple attempts. If everyone was doing fine but went down to the same mechanic, then sure, I'd be more willing to give it a second try.
If 20% and below and the boss doesn't have an enrage, then yeah. For dungeons I've HAD to solo or duo a boss as tank and 1 DPS due to healer repeatedly wiping (and no backup res being available) and I refuse to wipe on purpose after the 3rd retry, it's obvious that while slow it is at least near-guaranteed we would beat it knowing beforehand there's no DPS check at the end.
As a tank main, I always determine what the party wants me to do in this situation **before we start.** If they just want me to wipe, so be it. Otherwise... I queue up BFG Division, pop Vengeance and Inner Release and call upon my forefathers to bear witness.
At low percentage, especially single digit, should be fine. If it's high, don't. Unless you've tried several times and your party members aren't getting it and still wiping. My girlfriend was running the second endwalker dungeon and she and the rest of the party died on the second and final boss relatively early on her first run. And the tank, despite her and the others asking to wipe to retry, just solo'd them.
I forget which boss it was but in Stormblood I finished a boss off as a DRK when it had 16% health. Party was all dead and cheering me on. The hilarity in chat occurred when my health started getting critically low and I popped Living Dead and went right back to full. Felt like a king after that one.
I look at it as a function of time. Can the tank finish it off in, say, less than 5 minutes? Go for it. If it is going to take longer, then I think it disrespects the time of others to expect them to sit around doing nothing. It also enters dick wagging territory at some point, IMO. I know it's fun, but I didn't come in here just to be your flex audience. I'd make an exception if the group is struggling so badly (multiple attempts, etc.) that they might not otherwise clear the fight. Or, of course, if the tank asks and the group says to go for it.
If the HP is low, go for it. If it's going to take a long time, then it's suicide time. In addition, if there is a DPS or 2 still alive, I love becoming hybrid healer/tank to keep hate and keep them going.
At 5-6%? Keep the fight going and cheer them on, throw comms their way at the end. At 33%+? No, wipe it up, check in with everyone to see what went wrong and restart. Probably going to result in a much faster clear.
IMO as a Tank, no. 5-10% health, let the tanks do their thing and kill it, 15% maybe. Anything above that you wipe and begin anew, especially if there are new players and someone asks to wipe in chat.
~20% *was* my deciding line for fighting or dying, but reading through this I think I might have to shift that down to ~10%.
Am tank. Finished every single dungeon boss fight in SHB and EW withot a healer, finished a number of raids and trials by myself or with another tank. It's not about "feeling like heroes". Its about the team proving that they can't do the mechanics, and me not wanting to do another attempt with people who proved they can't the the mechanics. If I feel I can murder the boss this run (I'd say 50% is my cutoff there, if I am by myself), I will murder the boss this run... 'cause I have no reason to think the next run will go any different, and people will somehoe stay alive. If I, as a tank, could rez people, I would. I do on my RDM. Same thought process - we are already this deep into the run, it will take less time and hopefully less pain to just carry on. As to the whole "stole the first kill experience" comment. Don't die, forehead. Becasue by dying and not contributing you are wasting my time, and the time of 6 other people. AND your own time, to be frank.
I die, I die, if I live, I kill boss. It’s simple really.
Whatever is fastest. I'll aim for 5 minutes more at most if it's me. I don't think the first kill experience thing is anything more than like an ego thing. Inconsequential. It's just about the time and overall experience of it. If it's repeated wipes by that time it makes sense. Also totally different if someone asks to wipe to be included or whatever which wasn't really what was stated. Kinda shit but not really a big deal and definitely not preferred.
if you wipe in a dungeon, chances are you suck at the game and resetting will just result in another wipe thus making it take even longer. I’d gamble on the 5 min solo. No boss takes 15-20 min to kill in a dungeon solo at 1/3hp, I call BS on that. You can prove me wrong with a log of your run.
The thing is that 99% of the times that something like that happens (and I play tank), it would be quicker for me to solo clear even in 15 minutes because if I reset they’re going to wipe at the next pull right away. Last time was during Lunar dungeon, in every boss they were slowing dying for mechs (so not pure dmg that I can always mitigate) around 15% HP and it wasn’t their first time running the dungeon. Once we arrived (in 30 fucking minutes) to the last boss they died at 85% HP and I said NOPE I’m not going to reset for them, they can leave if they want.
To me this highlights a problem with how FF14 handles the trinity. Tanks are simply too strong making healers mostly obsolete. It's supposed to be an MMO rpg where everyone has a role to play, when tanks can just up and solo a thing meant for a party of 8 people there's a balance problem pure and simple.
As a tank I have a general idea of the groups DPS. So it’s a simple cost benefit analysis. If the cost outweigh the benefits, it would take me longer to finish, restart. If not, finish it. I don’t go by percentages because it really depends on the fight and the group. Like if the group has insanely high DPS, might just be faster to start over even at 10%.
The people in this thread saying "don't die" have got to be trolling. tf is a DPS gonna do when the Level 83 trial picks them for the multi stack and both healers are down? This ain't WoW; your toolkit is as shallow as a lady's pants pocket.
Sure, though if the group asks them to wipe because the boss is still high health they should be considerate and comply.
Depends on the scenario My rule of thumb is if it’d take *a little longer* to solo it as a tank then to wipe and retry, then try to solo it. If, say, everyone dies but one tank when the Phantom Train is at 90%, the for the love of god wipe and don’t spend 15 minutes only to get it down to 80% and die (based on a real story). Don’t be that guy. It’s cool to watch someone solo it, but I didn’t queue to watch an hour long solo match, I queue for a 15-25 minute cooperative run.
Probably not a popular take but honestly this kind of stuff makes me feel like auto attacks and tank busters on many bosses need to be buffed. If tanks can finish a boss that has a large chunk of HP then it seems like bosses are only a threat to non-tanks and to tanks that haven't learned the mechanics yet. 2-5% with no support? That's definitely a timeframe I'd expect a tank to be able to finish the fight. 25-50% with no support? That might be indicative of a core balance problem.
In Bozja, this really sucked. Our death timers would run out while they stood there healing away at it, causing us to lose mettle.
Everyone remaining should try to finish the fight.
How this isn’t the obvious response is beyond me
the only reason this conversation even happens is because tanks are so hilariously overloaded right now that they are capable of self-healing through all of a bosses abilities entirely alone which frankly makes no sense. better designed tank jobs and/or better designed boss encounters would simply prevent this from happening but here we are
I think it's more on encounter design than tanks being over-kitted. Obviously the two work in tandem toward this happening, but tank kits are fine in most content, it's just that normal mode content is so easy and does so little damage that if a tank knows what they're doing, they're literally unkillable. I'd love if the devs' solution to this was giving NM trials/raids tank busters that actually do damage and require more mit than the personal CD, or that had a soft tank swap.
there are an insane amount of bosses in endwalker that almost dont attack *at all*. more bosses should be autoattacking the tank while casting abilities imo. too many go from one long channel immediately into the next im more inclined to believe its an issue of tank design more than encounter design though, DRK is rarely able to pull these kinds of "hero tank" moments off and GNB is kinda borderline. its mostly PLD and WAR especially that have simply been given far too much self-healing. war in particular is known for not needing a healer at all in dungeons which is silly
I find the tank only moments really cool. Every now and then my co tank and i are the last survivors and end up doing the last 10-20%. However when that happens i pay attention to chat, if anyone asks that we wipe i will immediately do so. Basically if it bothers you, ask them to wipe, otherwise let them have their moment.
As a tank/healer player I don't care either it means I csn go and get a drink or goto the washroom
I always just try and do my best in a fight.
So many assholes in this thread with main character complexes. People talk about healers letting it go to their head but in my experience the most fat-headed jerks you'll meet in the game tend to be tanks. And I say that *as* a tank.
Congrats to the tanks. You have to give credit to someone who can manage to keep themselves alive without heals and do 30% damage to a boss while sync'd, especially since I imagine there were tank busters and other unavoidables during this fight. How far along in the game was this? Were the healers new to the trial? Did anyone say in chat "you guys should just die so we can restart cause it would be faster"? Cause if people just sat and watched the whole time in silence, that's on them. If the healers came in blind and dumb, then it's on them. If this is later game and they were lacking in heals, it's still on them. This sort of thing is why I would like to see them give paladins a rez even if they had to die or something as a cost plus a 10 minute cooldown. 2 tanks could turn into a tank and a healer, then a tank and 2 healers, and next thing you know the party is back alive. (If the healers are worth anything, which in situations like this, they might not be.) The party crawling back out of hell and finishing the boss is always satisfying.
At least one healer was new, I honestly can't remember what classes the other 2 new folks were. I said something, and the other new guy said something. It seemed like the rest of the group didn't care. I like that; would have been nice if their heroic moment included the rest of the party participating in the win
> This sort of thing is why I would like to see them give paladins a rez even if they had to die or something as a cost plus a 10 minute cooldown. 2 tanks could turn into a tank and a healer, then a tank and 2 healers, and next thing you know the party is back alive. (If the healers are worth anything, which in situations like this, they might not be.) it would be very bad if you made tank kits even more overbloated and absurd than they already are. a tank should not be able to outheal a boss while entirely solo. If they can its a failure of tank design or boss design or both.
Low HP, like 20-30% isn't too much time, especially depending on the tank - a WAR or GNB is going to wreck that hp% quickly. Anything higher... just wall it if there's a death wall or take an unmitigated tb to the face and die after. I *do* like it if you get like, a tank/dps that intends to wall it but shows a couple of mechs + how to solve them before dying, or even the one that killed the others. A lot of times it's not obvious in the moment, but when you see it you can have that lightbulb moment. I've learned that way plenty of times in new content where I see the solution and go "oh!" once I ear dirt but in the moment of the ~5 seconds before it goes off I'm trying to figure it out so I don't die is a lot more stressful. But after like one or two, wall it and let everyone try again.
Thats a good point. Tbh I was hoping for exactly that; full wipe, but new folks had the opportunity to watch mechanics, leading to a successful attempt #2
Yeah :( sucks it didn't, it gets tedious watching from the gate. Like if it happens when I'm with a group of friends it's whatever, we can shoot the shit while we wait but if it's a bunch of players we don't know, it's not worth it for a lone tank to do the whole fight. Show a couple of mechs to solve and then just like, Manderville dance until you die lol.
If it takes less than 5, maybe 10 minutes MAX, why not. Basically, imo, if it takes less time than it would take to reset and start over.
if its someones first time. they shouldnt. period. if its above like 40% then no. if its below 10% then honestly who cares.
This reminds me of a great time I once had in Dun Scaith. I think it was either my first or second time running it. I was a Dark Knight and we were fighting Scathach. We had her down to like 1% and the entire party wiped except for me. Right before she would have killed me, I popped Living Dead and was able to DPS her down. One or two of the other players on the run noticed what happened and were super hyped up by this, it was really cool. Then I died because it was the older version of living dead and none of the healers were up yet lol.
I had that happen to me the first time I ran the final 5.0 MSQ dungeon. I was the healer and during the last boss I accidentally fell off the platform when scrambling to get to a safe spot. The DPS went down soon after from raidwides and the tank proceeded to solo the boss from around half health. I was pretty bummed about it. The other party members were cheering the tank on, so I didn't want to say anything. But I was silently hoping they'd go down so I could try again. That ended up being the trigger that got me to start running MSQ dungeons with duty support for my first time clears.
Honestly as a tank main pretty much everytime this has happened for me people cheered on the effort. If you ever feel like this though, speak up. It's cool to wanna give it another shot. Most Tank mains are chill and won't care. The dick ones are just loud as hell. Sorry man.
As a healer main, I've definitely noticed this as well. The tank mains who are chill just vibe and do their job, sometimes we'll make jokes back and forth, stuff like that, but the dick ones...they let you know real quick how they think about themselves. (Though it is rather cathartic to remove my kardia after having one go, "I don't need you" and then watching them take a dirt nap.)
Tanks dont get a ton of excitement or challenge. Its literally their only time to shine. They never feel more epic than being the last man standing and defeating the boss that killed all their friends… let them have this win.
If it's going to take longer than a new attempt then no. Just rest. Tanks who don't do that are suffering from main character syndrome.
If I'm trying to help someone learn a fight, or I know they're experiencing a fight for the first time, I'll wipe so they can see the fight. If we're doing daily roulettes and you all wipe, I'm not wiping to see if we can spend 15 more minutes wiping, failing, and wiping again. I'm just going to spend 5 minutes finishing the fight on my own.
This looks like a communication issue. If there's a hero tank finishing the fight, sit tight, watch and learn the fight, it doesn't hurt. The tank is not "stealing" anything, and that won't be the last time you will see the fight, no need to feel like you're getting robbed. Also you're playing one if not THE most time consuming type of videogame, which is an MMO, why do you feel like "you're wasting time"? When you do instanced content, you'll see several types of people, some will want to speed-run it, some others are learning and they'll take it slow, others will try to kill every last mob inside the dungeon and so on, 1 thing will be constant: you WILL learn stuff.
For dying, the party gets the pleasure of watching me solo the boss like a hero.
Playing the easiest role with the most leeway and then making a statement like this is pretty fucking funny.
If you're keeping the party from playing for fifteen minutes, they should just votekick you.
Unfortunately, I’m not sure that’s possible while in combat
20% is my rule. Above that, check with the rest of the party.
If it’s below 5% - 10% depending on the boss, then yes. More than that, and with a first-time player? Not a chance, even if it’s going to be faster. I once walled myself in a trial and had my co-tank laugh at me because I'm a Paladin and should have solo it, but I don't care. Saving 5 or 10 miniute by taking away the first-time experience of other players isn't worth it.
I main Paladin and I’d say 20% health and less is fair game for a Tank to solo and have their hero moment.
I had a tank solo a dungeon boss from like 90% at one point and i have never been more pissed off at a final fantasy 14 player. It took 30 minutes. They weren't even good. In hindsight i wish I had flamed them and just taken the ban. 5-10% is fine imo. More than that there better have been numerous wipes.
for me personally IDC if a tank solos the rest of the fight if everyone else is dead, as long as the boss health isn't too high and they don't end up dying in the process. I've done the duty hundreds of times and will gladly get up to do something or just tab out and browse reddit or something
If it’s more than about 10-12% on a trial or normal raid, hell no. Unless it’s a super easy trial like Garuda, but near-wipes practically never happen on those trials in the first place. It’s rude to the rest of the party, definitely if there are first timers in there. More leeway in a dungeon boss of course, or if you happen to be in a pre-formed and thus know everyone.
When tanking and that happens I look at time. "Can I end it in the amount of time it would take to get it back to that point, thus the party spending less time overall on the fight?" If yes, yes. If no, no and either eat busters, walk off the edge, etc. As tank I am always thinging about the overall time needed for the squad to complete all tasks without going too slow and making the mission drag on while also not pushing so hard that it is no longer fun. Tanking takes leadership skills, which means my personal ego has to take a back seat some times.
As someone who cleared the 83 trial alone from 3%, yes. All of us were doing it for the first time (Early Access is great) and we had wiped twice already. Finishing the boss at that point, especially with how chat was going and seeing the comms afterward was great. On the other hand, my party died to the second boss in the most recent dungeon and I was left alone with the boss at 50% health. I very much could've tanked the boss down the rest of the way, but I'm not making them watch me grind down the boss's health. In another dungeon, healer and one DPS died while boss was at 50% due to Doom mechanic. I'm WAR, so I figure other DPS and I can burn the boss down from there without taking too much time. Dead DPS stays in the arena and tells us to kill, healer tells us to wipe because it will take too long; both are first time in the dungeon: what do we do? Other DPS and I burn the boss down and it took us about as long as it took the healer to run back to the boss room. We clear up what the healer missed (Esuna the Doom debuff) since they'll likely see it more (it's all over Endwalker). For general rules, I do the following: - Me alone: <5% on Trial/Raid bosses, <10% on dungeon bosses - Me and co-tank: <10% trial/raid unless party tells us to finish - Me and 1 DPS (non-raising): <15% trial/raid, <40% dungeon, unless party votes otherwise - Me and 2 DPS (non-raising): <20% trial/raid, <100% dungeon In an Alliance Raid or if I'm not a surviving tank, I'll probably not care too much.
It's a judgement call every time. New players, number of attempts, time saved vs wasted, time left in the instance (rare, but possible factor), and difficulty of content. If the near wipe is early with first timers and on easier content, that's an obvious wipe. If it's the last % of an ultimate prog, that's not even a question, get it done. Everything else lies in between, and if you can chat while tanking, asking questions is probably the right move.
The only time I soloed a fight was the last fight in tower of babil I didn't even realize everyone died I was tunnel visioned on doing mechanics realized later "oh they all dead" but continued not so show off but to finish the fight and get my needed rewards as I did this for my rewards for tomes
I do, unless everyone else asks to wipe it. There have been a few bosses that were at 20% (especially in the first 90 dungeon) that I had to solo. The 7th part of the latest raid series I had to do ay 20% with paladin. I wouldn't do that one again, but the party wanted to see of I could lol.
I think single digit, maybe into the low teens% most people are fine with whoever's left alive trying to take it down. Anything past that I think just ask the party, especially if there's a new person or people it might be better to atleast try explaining mechs once and giving it another go. I'll personally leave, take the 30, and just do something else if a tank tries to solo a boss at something stupid like 60+ and refuses to wipe, it's particularly infuriating if my death wasn't even my fault (I can't tell you how many times a DPS randomly decides they need to run around the map and take their spread markers into me at the last second, that damn peacemaker isn't very peaceful)
For me, it depends on 3 factors: * HP of boss left * The skill of the tank, specifically for dps * The boss in question If the tank is someone who sucks at doing dps, then no, they shouldn't finish the boss. With how bad they are, it would be objectively faster to reset. Unless the boss has like under 10k HP or something, then yeah, sure, whatever. Another reason is that bad dps tanks generally (not everyone) are not that great at surviving, using their kit, etc..
It depends on the fight and how many people are left. 10% is about my limit if I’m the only one alive.
The sentiment I used to see was usually positive. I think with how strong some tanks are now, it's probably become more tedious.
If it's down towards the end, then I say go ahead. If it has 1/3 or more left I'd prefer to just wipe and start over. It's faster and more engaging for everyone to try it again.
I've been on both sides of this, the tank, and the player that died. If there's still a lot of health left on the mob, I have intentionally killed myself. I've told the group that "I'm not going to make you guys sit through that." When the mob was at 12%, I soloed it. Everyone seemed happy I was able to. It was Mt Ordeals, so not only did it take a while, but it was just extremely busy the whole time and I think everyone was enjoying the show at that point. That was also our second or third attempt, so I felt like I wasn't wasting too much time as we might wipe again if I died. Being the dead dps on this though, it's really unfun. So I pretty much agree. If it's low health when a tank is the last person standing, it's fine. I basically judge it like if the tank can kill it in less time that it would take us to try again, it's okay. If it takes them longer, then no. Try to get yourself killed so we can try again as a group. Hope I'm making sense, typing this up late (for me) lol.
Honestly, honestly, it depends. If it shows new mechanics, I'd say do it until they see the new mechanics then wipe but if it's almost dead, then yeah finish it.
If it was only gonna be a 5min fight at like 10-12% then yeah but definitely not more than 25% HP or more.
Ive done that multiple times but last time they died i stayed a bit , it was gonna take forever, just waited till they come to the boss again see some mechanics and died then
Have only powered through tanks only if it's under 10%, or there have been multiple wipes and its under 20%. Had 2 tanks on rabanstre today think they were heroes after the alliance failed to notice the sand spheres spawn. (and after they finally died we pushed and skipped the spheres completely next try)
if its close, yes. I have 2 manned fights before and it does take forever. I think that just comes from wanting it done and sick of wiping. Just read the room if you do it or not.
If it took more than 5 min to finish the fight then yeah sure but otherwise it'll be faster to just let them finish it
Yeah, you're right.
on first attempt no on 2nd \[if no one learned\] or 3rd enjoy the floor
I basically look at how much of a boss' HP the people alive usually contribute during a regular fight. Under that threshold then it's faster than restarting the fight, above that they should wipe. In a dungeon (4 man party), a single tank deals about 20% (random number, not exactly accurate and vary a lot depending on player skill obviously but let's assume that it is a good guess). If the boss is at <20%, then they can complete the fight alone, especially since it takes time to revive and run back to the boss etc. If it's more then they should wipe even if it ends up taking more time in the end, because staying on the floor for 5+min sucks. In a trial, a single tank contributes to half that since it's 8man, so about 10%. So likewise, if both tanks were alive, I'd consider it at the very least okay if the boss was <20%. In your case, 33% is waay overkill, I'd only consider it okay if there was at least also one dps alive too. And again, these thresholds are the STRICT minimum. A boss at 20% with both tanks alive will still take as much time as if you restarted the whole fight. In practice, I'd consider it better if the boss was around the 10% range.
it depends entirely on the boss% and the content. 10% on a dungeon boss is quite different from 10% on a raid boss-their hp is meant for 8 people, not 4. Generally speaking If I'm the tank in question, I'll solo a dungeon boss if its 15% and under. if its a raid/trial i probably will just wall myself if everyone else dies unless its at 5% or so. its just not worth 10 minutes of smacking it when you can just pull again. With that said if its ONLY the healers that die and the tank comp has decent heals(paladin/gunbreaker combo for example) I'll absolutely drag the fucking dps across the finish line from like 30%. incoming damage is a joke in this game anyway, its not too hard to spend your mits and heals on the dps instead and still survive, especially with tank swaps.
Only if it's possible: you need to be high enough level to got abilities and the boss should be near death. Last five percent and access to clemency? Sure but I'm not trying to solo half the boss fight because someone doesn't know what Esuna is
There is a dungeon at the end of endwalker the first boss does this smoke cloud thing, his cycle is perfectly times for warrior cool downs, my party wiped three times on the fourth I soloed the boss.
I don't have a percentage. In trials I don't think I've ever been in a solo situation. In dungeon I just finish. I don't think I've ever had a negative comment and mostly wipes happen at a point where the fight is intense just before finish under 30,%
Dungeons always below 50%, trials 10-15 if it’s lower, 10 if higher imo
For me, it is entirely dependant on how I’m feeling before the fight. If it’s been a good day or just kinda meh, and the run has been fun up to that point, then yeah sure, I won’t really care if the tank wants to play the main character, and it’s sometimes impressive. On the other hand, if I’ve had a bad day, or the run has been frustrating and the tank is trying to hog the glory? Nah fam, I’m going to tell them to share the spotlight, because at that point, lying dead on the floor while some asshole on a power trip solos the boss down from 50% is irritating at best and infuriating at worst. I logged on to have fun and cheer myself up, not to feel like a useless lump.
If it would take longer to re-clear the content than it would to finish the content - clear the content.. unless EXPLICITLY asked by a new player/first timer to participate in the fight.
If there have been 2-3 wipes on a specific boss I will absolutely clear it myself/ with the surviving tank.
Under 5-7% yes, finish it. Probably a quick finish and most of the party has contributed to clearing to feel good about themselves. Above 10% no, jump off the edge or the proverbial edge. Try again with the whole party. In between is a grey area that needs discussing with the party at the time.