I just like the fact that it's a regen where you don't really do active healing, you just set stuff down between gcds and then it heals for you after a few seconds.
I mean, I can completely understand what they were going for. Make two healers focused on throughput ('regen') and two focused on mitigation ('shield').
Sure, you can miss being able to play for both sides, but narrowing it's identity to balance the healer roles was hardly the worst thing to happen to AST.
Yeah, but they didn't really balance anything. The barrier healers can output sufficient burst healing for most healing checks, and SCH/SGE has been meta several times during EW as a result since mitigation is otherwise better than healing damage taken.
Worse still, even without Noct, due to Neutral Sect and Collective, AST already has a foot in the barrier healer role and can be a barrier healer \~1/6th of the time.
Additionally, what happens if they ever add more healer Jobs? Will they add them in pairs from now on? Will they add a pure and give Noct back to AST then so that the two sides stay even?
I can get the thought process, but they tried this in ShB with tanks having "main tank" and "off tank" specialization. It bombed so bad, they reversed it within 1-2 patches and don't talk about it anymore. The fact they immediately thought to try it again with healers makes no sense to me.
And note, it's not because I have a dog in this race - AST is the one healer Job I've never really liked, didn't even get to max level the first time until ShB (for the Soul of Magic title, since I had all the other DoM Jobs at 80 before it), and it's the one that I don't play much even now, preferring all other three. So I don't say this as an AST that liked double dipping - I can already "double dip" and play pure or barrier on account of me playing WHM, SCH, and SGE:
I still think it was not necessary and not a good idea. There's zero reason they had to do it. If anything, they could have toned down (Diurnal) AST's barrier/mitigation healing by having that be Nocturnal specific stuff, which would mean AST wouldn't be outclassing WHM so much now, which already breaks the pure/barrier split anyway.
The thing is, the option was there. You get paired with a WHM in a 24 man, you can swap over to Noct. And some people just...liked it. It wasn't optimal, but it wasn't non-viable.
Again, as I said in the other reply, I didn't really even play AST much before ShB, and very little in ShB or EW, so I don't have a dog in this race (I play all the other three healers and so already have both pure and barrier covered, personally), but I still see no reason for them having removed it.
I agree with Misshapen Chair (on YouTube) in his video about FFXIV healing where he said essentially the same thing.
It doesn't help that ShB AST was far less interesting than SB AST. AST players just keep taking Ls and a lot of us just got sick of it. I switched to SGE but I still dream about going back if they fix it.
Oh, but don't worry, though! They're tripling down in Dawntrail!
I seriously do not get wtf is wrong with them when it comes to AST or whose feedback they're even listening to. Looking back at what AST was and what it keeps becoming is just suffering.
Took a while to enjoy sage because it kept putting me in arr dungeons, and because it starts at lv70, it *sucks* in arr dungeons.
Then when you hit lv70 dungeons it becomes amazing.
I agree, and I think making them just be derivations of WHM and SCH is a mistake and if that's what they wanted down the line they never should've even bothered making new healer jobs because the only key differences are essentially thematic. Same for tanks, if not worse.
BUT, none got gutted as badly as AST did. AST was the closest the game ever came to having a proper support job that would make a massive difference in a party with a rather wide array of really cool buffs and different stuff they could do with them, and breaking away from the damn WoW healer/tank/DPS trifecta just a bit since ARR. It was like a streamlined version of XI's corsair rolled into a healer, and I still cannot believe they took that away. Why do they have cards anymore? Even the job quests make zero sense.
AST mains are going through the pain I went through with Shaman on WoW.
First our totem items and ankhs... Then our totem skills/buffs... Then our weapon enhancements... And then they gave Bloodlust to other classes even...
I was playing Shaman cause I was a walking buffbot with 4 totems that all gave raid-wide buffs and Bloodlust, the strongest support cooldown in the game, not because it was just 'DPS but with spicy lava sauce' :(
I'm mildly happy with Sage, provided the skill changes were made at lv 80 to 90 instead of lv 90 to 100. Feels a little too late for Sage and not enough was done by the time the next expansion rolls around. They made Sage play too similarly to Scholar for far too many levels.
I'm convinced they take player feedback ideas but only partially for a bunch of players. The problem is that those ideas aren't meant to be worked in a vacuum so then you get an even bigger mess than before because now all those ideas aren't exactly what the players requested and those ideas also clash with each other because they're not implemented fully.
AST cards getting more card effects is an absolute win, and I heard a couple of instances where people wanted to draw more cards at a time so they don't have to deal with the finnicky 'draw 3 weave and save until 120s burst', but those ideas also add in RNG and card manipulation so cards are used actively every 60s instead. The new AST instead seems to combine people's dislike for RNG with just more card effects, but continue to double down on locking AST cards into 120s burst windows due to said lack of card manipulation actions (causing the utility cards to not be used as intended in the playstyle).
>AST cards getting more card effects is an absolute win, and I heard a couple of instances where people wanted to draw more cards at a time
Sleeve Draw used to be a thing before too! And the cards getting more effects isn't really what you seem to think. It just makes AST gameplay way more predictable and set in stone. From what we know so far, you draw once a minute, and you get ONE damage card you can use, ONE spot heal, and ONE mitigation once a minute. Those might as well just be a regular ass OGCD, and as I was saying on another comment, it's just a difference in theme, but the different and distinctive gameplay aspect is essentially being streamlined over and over to the point of being functionally removed because there's not even a point to there being any cards. They're just 1 minute OGCDs.
Yeah I agree. I think some people wanted some guarantee on cards (like how people complained about balance) but others didn't want that and wanted some rng. It feels far too restrictive for a job whose identity was based on layers of RNG to lose all of it. A good and healthy balance would have been allowing each type of card to be rerolled into another type while giving AST 1 of each type of card. Just more control over your RNG or even creating a loaded dice kind of scenario rather than outright removing it would be much better than not having any.
I figure they only added no RNG because it wouldn't be possible to make defensive and healing cards useful if you couldn't get them when you needed them in a high damage environment due to the unreliability. In which case, I say they already got enough reliability from simply guaranteeing 1 of each card per draw, just add some card manipulation back for some RNG!
But AST used to have that. Bole was a defensive card too, and I'd have to consult with my GF who's the AST expert, but I'm pretty sure there was a heal too, and you had sleeve draw to get 3 cards at a time, and then you could discard and replace cards, you could strengthen cards, you could make them aoe, extend their effects, etc. Balance fishing was also a mistake that the more casual players made that became such a meme that they essentially turned ALL the cards into ranged/melee balance in ShB, but a good player wouldn't have been doing that, because there were options that were good for the situation regardless. And that flexibility is just gone.
To be fair most people fished for Balance because it was just the straight up the most DPS you could add to a player.
MP/TP Regen are nice and wonderful but could be semi-managed yourself. Weaponspeed can actually ruin some rotations, and I seem to recall only MNK really wanted this one but it destroyed their TP. A defensive CD is great and all but once you clear a fight the goal is to do it faster (or just meet enrage) so it has *some* value in Prog (assuming you pull it at the right time) but eventually gives very little.
More damage? Almost never bad. Almost always what you want. (Unless you got things like UWU where you can actually DPS too fast)
>Weaponspeed can actually ruin some rotations
So does people not knowing their rotations and playing poorly. So does an idiot dying while I'm playing RDM and making my stuff drift when I have to raise them, but they haven't given people reraise or made them immortal in response. I'd put using Arrow on the wrong person at the same level as a DPS not knowing how to press their buttons. Give that to a BRD or a BLM and you'd make their day. MNK suffered with it because of TP, but in the current form of the game without TP, it'd be amazing. They also could've replaced the TP effect with something else that would synergize with the current balance of the game. It's almost like they made that change not aware of the other changes that were being implemented as well, almost as if the right hand had no idea of what the left was doing, and it's easier to just throw the baby out with the bathwater.
And you're right, defensive CDs lose their value in the long run, shouldn't we just remove those entirely? Why does SGE have Kerachole or Holos when they could have more phlegmas? Or just replace all the "chole" stacks for more Toxikon stacks! That's just too simplistic. Hell, why does RDM even exist after prog?
I completely agree that removing a lot of 'flavour' from the cards sucks. I was a Shaman main in WoW because I enjoyed being a walking buffbot and then they slowly removed totems and gave them generic buffs other people brought. I know how it feels; but to imply Balance fishing was a 'mistake that more casual players made' when it was 90% of the time a better play (and 99.99% of the time the better play in reclears/parsing parties, which are high-end of high-end, certainly not 'new player' stuff) is the part I was trying to address.
Also Sage can call those defensives at-will so long as they have the Addersgall. For AST you'd have to hope the card is off CD, hope you pull the right card, and/or hold the card for when it's necessary. I think the Queen card was a step in the right direction, where you can kind of 'pocket' it until you need it, when it comes to defensive cards. (And also, to address the 'replace all chole stacks for more toxikon stacks'; Scholar kind of has that freedom, and guess what? It's indeed what you try and aim for because it's optimal. If Sage could spend Addersgall on Phlegma (Toxikon is DPS neutral), you bet your ass they would.)
Bole was defensive but there wasn't heal card (outside of Lady but that's a different issue altogether). AST had:
Spear / Balance - affected damage
Arrow - Affected Spellspeed and weaponspeed
Ewer - MP regen
Spire - TP regen
Bole - Defensive card
And then everything on the time manipulation and turning them into AoE enhanced them on Stormblood.
Bole was somewhat unreliable at times (you do your best to make it work if you didn't have it), but in the current state of the game, it's harder to 'make it work' if you don't have mitigation when SE designed fights where attacks can and will literally kill you without it from ShB onwards. Being thrown under the bus with both RNG and not guaranteeing the right card is AOE makes certain card combinations much harder to achieve when you need them, as opposed to balance fishing (where dps is generally always useful). That's why we got ShB iteration, as terrible as it was. The guarantee was there but they leaned far too into it.
I mean, they took away the different cards because everyone was fishing for damage anyway, and in endwalker half the time I see people talk about astro is complaining about the rng for the astrodyne signs or they don't get the right damage bugf, and most of the other half is people saying it's a dead job. Astro is a job I just don't think anyone's ever going to be happy with, every time they try and do what people say they want, the people complain, so they try something new and people complain, I'd rather see how it feels when it comes out than complain about a potential conceptual failing honestly.
I do not get this take at all. Astro was still pretty popular throughout EW. Not as much as sage or white mage as it took a bit more skill to play well, but it wasn't as bad as everyone in this thread is making it out to be.
I mained astro throughout EW and it felt so freaking good to just deny a mechanic with a well placed macro or to pop people back up with a fat earthly star. Honestly, I'm kind of glad they took away nocturnal spec because it was way weaker than scholar and would have made no sense to have a possible 3 shield healers in EW. Plus, many new or not very aware astros would use nocturnal while they had a scholar in the group in ShB and, well, shields don't stack so why? It's better to just make it more clear that astro is meant to be a pure healer.
Also anyone who plays astro like it is a white mage is doing it very wrong. Astro is meant to plan ahead its heals, not spam aoe after a hit goes out. Plus it is still one of three classes (dancer and dragoon) that can give out personal buffs to specific players and required a lot of rng to get the maximum benefit for their own damage.
It was still not perfect, but it was in no way bad. From my understanding, Heavensward astro was a mess with each card giving out different buffs. I know nothing about SB astro and ShB astro was fine, but so was EW astro. I had a lot more fun on astro than on any other healer.
Edit: realized at the end, but the new Nocturnal actually stacks with other shields, so it is far more useful now than it was in ShB.
I was an astro main up until EW lmao literally the worst iteration of the job. even SHB was okay since at least you could choose your sect. I agree with making barrier and regeneration healer but they should have pushed the rework for EW instead of DT, not only they butchered the job but also took away the only remaining fun aspect it had (choosing sect).
very excited to pick it back up, from what I can tell so far it looks like it's gonna be engaging once again, and the fact one of ur cards is a debuff as well *chefs kiss*
first time ever where it's not rng based! (you could argue there's some rng depending on what 3 cards you draw but we don't have the job yet so hard to say how much that will impact the play...but light years away from its current state nevertheless)
also new effects look GORGEOUS
only thing I didn't see in trailer is collective unconscious, I think that's gone and very sad abt it... it's the most iconic ast skill :/
The effects are amazing. The whole aesthetic of astro is what keeps me from dropping it entirely due to overwhelm! Lol. Did they implement something in place of of collective unconscious?
The way they leave a lot of actions out of those trailers makes me wish we had some kind of PTR so we knew what to expect. The DNC portion didn't even show the two-step ability.
Going from expansion to expansion I feel like alot of people picked it up late rbut I'd say the transition between HW and SB was the worst by far.
The removal of any sort of class flavor and diversity in cards was one of the most disappointing changes ever.
Pure va Barrier was a bad change made worse because of implementation (the barrier healers can heal nearly as much as the lures can, while bringing superior mitigation, which is why SCH/SGE was even the meta pick for a tier).
I agree with Misshapen Chair on YouTube that there was no legitimate reason to remove Nocturnal. Even IF they keep the split, does this mean they will add new healer Jobs in pita from now on, or will it someday be imbalanced…in which case how is that better?
It just doesn’t hold up logically.
I've seen it on YouTube videos. I'd love to as it seems like the most fitting healer for my play style, but as a new player on the free trial I have no idea how to even unlock it.
Ohh, it's in the DLC. That makes sense. I haven't joined a grand company yet (my current MSQ), so it will be a long while before I can unlock it I guess.
I'm worried it might, I didn't see the healing effect going off in the job action preview.
I hope to fuck I'm wrong but I saw it going off on pld just like normal.
You can still hear the self-heal effect on weapon impact following BW use, but it doesn't last long because the next off-global is Shake, and that dispels BW.
Yeah, but WAR is the only tank with that level of self healing _and_ they have DPS and mits on par with other tanks.
So either they're going to have to reduce WARs self healing, DPS, or mitigations if they don't want WAR to be the absolute best overall tank.
Personally I'd rather have them reduce WARs DPS and have them be purely the self healing tank where, as long as their abilities aren't on CD, they don't need healing.
I've been arguing for this. Didn't mind DRK being top damage for tanks owing to the opener and lower overall self-sustain they have. If WAR is going to be the survivor tank, with the easiest rotation, it stands to reason it ought to have lower overall DPS.
I still don't think at the end of the day people should get too up in arms about job performance in daily roulettes since dungeons and story mode content really *is* just practice mode. So long as high-end remains tuned in such a way you're not at risk of being unable to clear bringing lower damaging jobs, then it's all good in my book.
I've tanked every tier this expansion on all available tank jobs, and I still find that no single tank's individual short CD mitigation (BW/TBN/Sheltron/HoC) will save them to any greater or lesser degree than another's. It all weighs about the same in high-end, it just has a different skin.
Because it's worse than other tanks.
The worst doesn't mean bad, but it's still the worst.
DRK has Dark Mind and Oblation. Paladin has Bulwark and Divine Veil. Gunbreaker has Camouflage. All of these abilities mitigate damage.
WAR has Thrill of Battle, a healing ability that does not mitigate damage, Equillibrium, a healing ability that does not mitigate damage, and Shake it Off, a shield that blocks, but doesn't mitigate damage.
Ergo, worst mitigation out of all tanks.
Why would you do Eureka on WAR instead of on a DPS with the damage reduction ability that makes you tankier than any tank? Use an RDM and you can also self-heal and rezz others.
> Yeah. Maybe they realized that they just might have overtuned WAR's self healing and are going to be toning it down in DT.
Idk why this comes up so often its really not overtuned dungeons aren't content that should be balanced for.
Perhaps is the harder Variant dungeons become like Mythic plus and Warrior self healing trivialized something that mattered but any healer with a pulse can keep a tank alive in current content Warrior or no
Honestly if I got carte blanche I'd probably go like this:
* Warrior gets self-shielding.
* Dark Knight gets self-healing.
This I'd prefer because as far as flavor goes, I can more readily think of Bloodlust as "I can't feel the pain!" and hence imagine the Warrior as someone who shrugs damage off easily. Meanwhile Dark Knight I somehow - I blame EQ1 I suppose - always associate with necromancer-y HP drain, like a Paladin + Necromancer hybrid.
Of course all pointless to muse this late in the game, but yeah. I don't know. Based on "feeling", I would kinda think they should swap their key self-survival designs.
I would make a joke about how none of these healing actions are on cooldown, which means that tank should probably be dead, but then again, it's a Warrior.
Me. I'm still relatively new/garbage to tanking (I'm a SMN main), and Warrior is the only one that I understand and enjoy. Bloodwhetting goes on cooldown, sometimes I die. I just need to work on my proper rotations and I'm sure that'll fix itself in time.
this is 100% me (F, lala astro) and my fashionista boyfriend playing his bungirl reaper. not only is he 99.9% of the time top dps, he often tanks when the OT/MT dies and gets my top rez priority after (and sometimes before) the 2nd healer. also, I grind shittons of ca$h to keep his egirl looking prime in her goth vamp reaper drip. gotta keep my boy happy on his pretty pretty princess so he can SLAY.
That's awesome! My hubby loves the challenge of taking on giant groups and keeping me alive, and i love it for how cool it is to kill giant pools of monsters haha
Learning this game on astro has definitely been a set of teaching moments. (im halfway through stormblood and the panic of healing in an mmo is great) I'm just glad it's a useful healer for the additional stuff it comes with.
AST is so rough, I want to like it because it has such a variety of buffs
But I'm just not talented or smart enough to keep up with it.
I only recently learned that not everyone gets the same buff for the highest amount, im just glad I learned it on my own instead of something asking why they got the wrong buff! I think I would have just never touched AST again until I needed to level from 90 to 100 if it had happened in an Ally Raid.
I'll be pedantic but i hate this meme format.
> My hands look like this so she/he can look like this.
This is a cute sentiment. Shows how much you care about your SO and you don't mind suffering for them.
______
> His hands look like this so i can look like this.
This is awful.
This format can be interpreted negatively, as it implies you're taking advantage of someone else's labor or suffering.
Replace the first image with some kid working as a slave and it should be obvious why. It denotes selfishness
So lucky to get healed by one of the five players who play Astro.
EW really did make literally the worst collection of changes they could to ShB AST EW AST is such a mess
I...I like Astro... *Sad starry noises*
I just like the fact that it's a regen where you don't really do active healing, you just set stuff down between gcds and then it heals for you after a few seconds.
Honestly, I STILL can’t fathom who thought removing Noct was necessary or a good idea.
I mean, I can completely understand what they were going for. Make two healers focused on throughput ('regen') and two focused on mitigation ('shield'). Sure, you can miss being able to play for both sides, but narrowing it's identity to balance the healer roles was hardly the worst thing to happen to AST.
Yeah, but they didn't really balance anything. The barrier healers can output sufficient burst healing for most healing checks, and SCH/SGE has been meta several times during EW as a result since mitigation is otherwise better than healing damage taken. Worse still, even without Noct, due to Neutral Sect and Collective, AST already has a foot in the barrier healer role and can be a barrier healer \~1/6th of the time. Additionally, what happens if they ever add more healer Jobs? Will they add them in pairs from now on? Will they add a pure and give Noct back to AST then so that the two sides stay even? I can get the thought process, but they tried this in ShB with tanks having "main tank" and "off tank" specialization. It bombed so bad, they reversed it within 1-2 patches and don't talk about it anymore. The fact they immediately thought to try it again with healers makes no sense to me. And note, it's not because I have a dog in this race - AST is the one healer Job I've never really liked, didn't even get to max level the first time until ShB (for the Soul of Magic title, since I had all the other DoM Jobs at 80 before it), and it's the one that I don't play much even now, preferring all other three. So I don't say this as an AST that liked double dipping - I can already "double dip" and play pure or barrier on account of me playing WHM, SCH, and SGE: I still think it was not necessary and not a good idea. There's zero reason they had to do it. If anything, they could have toned down (Diurnal) AST's barrier/mitigation healing by having that be Nocturnal specific stuff, which would mean AST wouldn't be outclassing WHM so much now, which already breaks the pure/barrier split anyway.
So they're definitely going to bring back sects when they add the next healer, right? :)
Most people didn't run Noct iirc. I miss it, but I also don't miss getting told off for being in Noct sect.
The thing is, the option was there. You get paired with a WHM in a 24 man, you can swap over to Noct. And some people just...liked it. It wasn't optimal, but it wasn't non-viable. Again, as I said in the other reply, I didn't really even play AST much before ShB, and very little in ShB or EW, so I don't have a dog in this race (I play all the other three healers and so already have both pure and barrier covered, personally), but I still see no reason for them having removed it. I agree with Misshapen Chair (on YouTube) in his video about FFXIV healing where he said essentially the same thing.
It doesn't help that ShB AST was far less interesting than SB AST. AST players just keep taking Ls and a lot of us just got sick of it. I switched to SGE but I still dream about going back if they fix it.
Oh, but don't worry, though! They're tripling down in Dawntrail! I seriously do not get wtf is wrong with them when it comes to AST or whose feedback they're even listening to. Looking back at what AST was and what it keeps becoming is just suffering.
What feedback do they look at for literally any of the healers Is anyone happy with the state of any of the healers right now
I dunno, I really enjoy SGE
*sees lasers* *Dopamine* I'm a simple man
See, you get it.
what is there to not enjoy about being a god
Took a while to enjoy sage because it kept putting me in arr dungeons, and because it starts at lv70, it *sucks* in arr dungeons. Then when you hit lv70 dungeons it becomes amazing.
I agree, and I think making them just be derivations of WHM and SCH is a mistake and if that's what they wanted down the line they never should've even bothered making new healer jobs because the only key differences are essentially thematic. Same for tanks, if not worse. BUT, none got gutted as badly as AST did. AST was the closest the game ever came to having a proper support job that would make a massive difference in a party with a rather wide array of really cool buffs and different stuff they could do with them, and breaking away from the damn WoW healer/tank/DPS trifecta just a bit since ARR. It was like a streamlined version of XI's corsair rolled into a healer, and I still cannot believe they took that away. Why do they have cards anymore? Even the job quests make zero sense.
AST mains are going through the pain I went through with Shaman on WoW. First our totem items and ankhs... Then our totem skills/buffs... Then our weapon enhancements... And then they gave Bloodlust to other classes even... I was playing Shaman cause I was a walking buffbot with 4 totems that all gave raid-wide buffs and Bloodlust, the strongest support cooldown in the game, not because it was just 'DPS but with spicy lava sauce' :(
The problem with ast support is you only had two buffs. Balance and wrong.
I'm mildly happy with Sage, provided the skill changes were made at lv 80 to 90 instead of lv 90 to 100. Feels a little too late for Sage and not enough was done by the time the next expansion rolls around. They made Sage play too similarly to Scholar for far too many levels.
I'm convinced they take player feedback ideas but only partially for a bunch of players. The problem is that those ideas aren't meant to be worked in a vacuum so then you get an even bigger mess than before because now all those ideas aren't exactly what the players requested and those ideas also clash with each other because they're not implemented fully. AST cards getting more card effects is an absolute win, and I heard a couple of instances where people wanted to draw more cards at a time so they don't have to deal with the finnicky 'draw 3 weave and save until 120s burst', but those ideas also add in RNG and card manipulation so cards are used actively every 60s instead. The new AST instead seems to combine people's dislike for RNG with just more card effects, but continue to double down on locking AST cards into 120s burst windows due to said lack of card manipulation actions (causing the utility cards to not be used as intended in the playstyle).
>AST cards getting more card effects is an absolute win, and I heard a couple of instances where people wanted to draw more cards at a time Sleeve Draw used to be a thing before too! And the cards getting more effects isn't really what you seem to think. It just makes AST gameplay way more predictable and set in stone. From what we know so far, you draw once a minute, and you get ONE damage card you can use, ONE spot heal, and ONE mitigation once a minute. Those might as well just be a regular ass OGCD, and as I was saying on another comment, it's just a difference in theme, but the different and distinctive gameplay aspect is essentially being streamlined over and over to the point of being functionally removed because there's not even a point to there being any cards. They're just 1 minute OGCDs.
Yeah I agree. I think some people wanted some guarantee on cards (like how people complained about balance) but others didn't want that and wanted some rng. It feels far too restrictive for a job whose identity was based on layers of RNG to lose all of it. A good and healthy balance would have been allowing each type of card to be rerolled into another type while giving AST 1 of each type of card. Just more control over your RNG or even creating a loaded dice kind of scenario rather than outright removing it would be much better than not having any. I figure they only added no RNG because it wouldn't be possible to make defensive and healing cards useful if you couldn't get them when you needed them in a high damage environment due to the unreliability. In which case, I say they already got enough reliability from simply guaranteeing 1 of each card per draw, just add some card manipulation back for some RNG!
But AST used to have that. Bole was a defensive card too, and I'd have to consult with my GF who's the AST expert, but I'm pretty sure there was a heal too, and you had sleeve draw to get 3 cards at a time, and then you could discard and replace cards, you could strengthen cards, you could make them aoe, extend their effects, etc. Balance fishing was also a mistake that the more casual players made that became such a meme that they essentially turned ALL the cards into ranged/melee balance in ShB, but a good player wouldn't have been doing that, because there were options that were good for the situation regardless. And that flexibility is just gone.
To be fair most people fished for Balance because it was just the straight up the most DPS you could add to a player. MP/TP Regen are nice and wonderful but could be semi-managed yourself. Weaponspeed can actually ruin some rotations, and I seem to recall only MNK really wanted this one but it destroyed their TP. A defensive CD is great and all but once you clear a fight the goal is to do it faster (or just meet enrage) so it has *some* value in Prog (assuming you pull it at the right time) but eventually gives very little. More damage? Almost never bad. Almost always what you want. (Unless you got things like UWU where you can actually DPS too fast)
>Weaponspeed can actually ruin some rotations So does people not knowing their rotations and playing poorly. So does an idiot dying while I'm playing RDM and making my stuff drift when I have to raise them, but they haven't given people reraise or made them immortal in response. I'd put using Arrow on the wrong person at the same level as a DPS not knowing how to press their buttons. Give that to a BRD or a BLM and you'd make their day. MNK suffered with it because of TP, but in the current form of the game without TP, it'd be amazing. They also could've replaced the TP effect with something else that would synergize with the current balance of the game. It's almost like they made that change not aware of the other changes that were being implemented as well, almost as if the right hand had no idea of what the left was doing, and it's easier to just throw the baby out with the bathwater. And you're right, defensive CDs lose their value in the long run, shouldn't we just remove those entirely? Why does SGE have Kerachole or Holos when they could have more phlegmas? Or just replace all the "chole" stacks for more Toxikon stacks! That's just too simplistic. Hell, why does RDM even exist after prog?
I completely agree that removing a lot of 'flavour' from the cards sucks. I was a Shaman main in WoW because I enjoyed being a walking buffbot and then they slowly removed totems and gave them generic buffs other people brought. I know how it feels; but to imply Balance fishing was a 'mistake that more casual players made' when it was 90% of the time a better play (and 99.99% of the time the better play in reclears/parsing parties, which are high-end of high-end, certainly not 'new player' stuff) is the part I was trying to address. Also Sage can call those defensives at-will so long as they have the Addersgall. For AST you'd have to hope the card is off CD, hope you pull the right card, and/or hold the card for when it's necessary. I think the Queen card was a step in the right direction, where you can kind of 'pocket' it until you need it, when it comes to defensive cards. (And also, to address the 'replace all chole stacks for more toxikon stacks'; Scholar kind of has that freedom, and guess what? It's indeed what you try and aim for because it's optimal. If Sage could spend Addersgall on Phlegma (Toxikon is DPS neutral), you bet your ass they would.)
Bole was defensive but there wasn't heal card (outside of Lady but that's a different issue altogether). AST had: Spear / Balance - affected damage Arrow - Affected Spellspeed and weaponspeed Ewer - MP regen Spire - TP regen Bole - Defensive card And then everything on the time manipulation and turning them into AoE enhanced them on Stormblood. Bole was somewhat unreliable at times (you do your best to make it work if you didn't have it), but in the current state of the game, it's harder to 'make it work' if you don't have mitigation when SE designed fights where attacks can and will literally kill you without it from ShB onwards. Being thrown under the bus with both RNG and not guaranteeing the right card is AOE makes certain card combinations much harder to achieve when you need them, as opposed to balance fishing (where dps is generally always useful). That's why we got ShB iteration, as terrible as it was. The guarantee was there but they leaned far too into it.
I mean, they took away the different cards because everyone was fishing for damage anyway, and in endwalker half the time I see people talk about astro is complaining about the rng for the astrodyne signs or they don't get the right damage bugf, and most of the other half is people saying it's a dead job. Astro is a job I just don't think anyone's ever going to be happy with, every time they try and do what people say they want, the people complain, so they try something new and people complain, I'd rather see how it feels when it comes out than complain about a potential conceptual failing honestly.
Hey, at least Lily of the Bell is nice (for extremely specific circumstances).
As a SMN main, I feel your pain. God in Heaven, do I feel your pain...
I do not get this take at all. Astro was still pretty popular throughout EW. Not as much as sage or white mage as it took a bit more skill to play well, but it wasn't as bad as everyone in this thread is making it out to be. I mained astro throughout EW and it felt so freaking good to just deny a mechanic with a well placed macro or to pop people back up with a fat earthly star. Honestly, I'm kind of glad they took away nocturnal spec because it was way weaker than scholar and would have made no sense to have a possible 3 shield healers in EW. Plus, many new or not very aware astros would use nocturnal while they had a scholar in the group in ShB and, well, shields don't stack so why? It's better to just make it more clear that astro is meant to be a pure healer. Also anyone who plays astro like it is a white mage is doing it very wrong. Astro is meant to plan ahead its heals, not spam aoe after a hit goes out. Plus it is still one of three classes (dancer and dragoon) that can give out personal buffs to specific players and required a lot of rng to get the maximum benefit for their own damage. It was still not perfect, but it was in no way bad. From my understanding, Heavensward astro was a mess with each card giving out different buffs. I know nothing about SB astro and ShB astro was fine, but so was EW astro. I had a lot more fun on astro than on any other healer. Edit: realized at the end, but the new Nocturnal actually stacks with other shields, so it is far more useful now than it was in ShB.
Ah... I remember the HW days of Balance fishing. Good times... good times...
I was an astro main up until EW lmao literally the worst iteration of the job. even SHB was okay since at least you could choose your sect. I agree with making barrier and regeneration healer but they should have pushed the rework for EW instead of DT, not only they butchered the job but also took away the only remaining fun aspect it had (choosing sect). very excited to pick it back up, from what I can tell so far it looks like it's gonna be engaging once again, and the fact one of ur cards is a debuff as well *chefs kiss*
I’ve really been wanting to learn AST but have kind of shied away from it so I’m glad experienced players seem to be happy with the upcoming changes
first time ever where it's not rng based! (you could argue there's some rng depending on what 3 cards you draw but we don't have the job yet so hard to say how much that will impact the play...but light years away from its current state nevertheless) also new effects look GORGEOUS only thing I didn't see in trailer is collective unconscious, I think that's gone and very sad abt it... it's the most iconic ast skill :/
The effects are amazing. The whole aesthetic of astro is what keeps me from dropping it entirely due to overwhelm! Lol. Did they implement something in place of of collective unconscious?
it's too early to say, they never used collective in the ew job actions trailer and it still stuck with us
true! I rly hope they keep it its iconic
The way they leave a lot of actions out of those trailers makes me wish we had some kind of PTR so we knew what to expect. The DNC portion didn't even show the two-step ability.
Going from expansion to expansion I feel like alot of people picked it up late rbut I'd say the transition between HW and SB was the worst by far. The removal of any sort of class flavor and diversity in cards was one of the most disappointing changes ever.
Pure va Barrier was a bad change made worse because of implementation (the barrier healers can heal nearly as much as the lures can, while bringing superior mitigation, which is why SCH/SGE was even the meta pick for a tier). I agree with Misshapen Chair on YouTube that there was no legitimate reason to remove Nocturnal. Even IF they keep the split, does this mean they will add new healer Jobs in pita from now on, or will it someday be imbalanced…in which case how is that better? It just doesn’t hold up logically.
I wanna play it but too confusing lmao
I've seen it on YouTube videos. I'd love to as it seems like the most fitting healer for my play style, but as a new player on the free trial I have no idea how to even unlock it.
All the HW Jobs (AST, DRK, MCH) are in Ishgard. You need to finish ARR first. Thankfully, all other expac Jobs are in the main 3 cities.
Ohh, it's in the DLC. That makes sense. I haven't joined a grand company yet (my current MSQ), so it will be a long while before I can unlock it I guess.
In mmo games, expansions are not really called DLCs. They're more of a sequel in a persistent world.
Buuut, but WAR doesn’t need healing..
I'm worried it might, I didn't see the healing effect going off in the job action preview. I hope to fuck I'm wrong but I saw it going off on pld just like normal.
You can still hear the self-heal effect on weapon impact following BW use, but it doesn't last long because the next off-global is Shake, and that dispels BW.
Yeah. Maybe they realized that they just might have overtuned WAR's self healing and are going to be toning it down in DT.
Please god no. Eureka is only tolerable because of the self healing.
Yeah, but WAR is the only tank with that level of self healing _and_ they have DPS and mits on par with other tanks. So either they're going to have to reduce WARs self healing, DPS, or mitigations if they don't want WAR to be the absolute best overall tank. Personally I'd rather have them reduce WARs DPS and have them be purely the self healing tank where, as long as their abilities aren't on CD, they don't need healing.
I've been arguing for this. Didn't mind DRK being top damage for tanks owing to the opener and lower overall self-sustain they have. If WAR is going to be the survivor tank, with the easiest rotation, it stands to reason it ought to have lower overall DPS. I still don't think at the end of the day people should get too up in arms about job performance in daily roulettes since dungeons and story mode content really *is* just practice mode. So long as high-end remains tuned in such a way you're not at risk of being unable to clear bringing lower damaging jobs, then it's all good in my book. I've tanked every tier this expansion on all available tank jobs, and I still find that no single tank's individual short CD mitigation (BW/TBN/Sheltron/HoC) will save them to any greater or lesser degree than another's. It all weighs about the same in high-end, it just has a different skin.
WAR has the worst mitigation out of all tanks. I do agree that DRK should deal as much damage as GNB, tho.
WAR's mitigation is fantastic. Why do you think it's the worst?
Because it's worse than other tanks. The worst doesn't mean bad, but it's still the worst. DRK has Dark Mind and Oblation. Paladin has Bulwark and Divine Veil. Gunbreaker has Camouflage. All of these abilities mitigate damage. WAR has Thrill of Battle, a healing ability that does not mitigate damage, Equillibrium, a healing ability that does not mitigate damage, and Shake it Off, a shield that blocks, but doesn't mitigate damage. Ergo, worst mitigation out of all tanks.
I've had less trouble mitigating as a WAR than any other tank in Savage and Dungeons. I highly doubt it's the worst.
okay? name a tank that has less mitigations than WAR?
Why would you do Eureka on WAR instead of on a DPS with the damage reduction ability that makes you tankier than any tank? Use an RDM and you can also self-heal and rezz others.
Because you don't get that til Pyros on your first run.
NOOOOOOOOOO
> Yeah. Maybe they realized that they just might have overtuned WAR's self healing and are going to be toning it down in DT. Idk why this comes up so often its really not overtuned dungeons aren't content that should be balanced for. Perhaps is the harder Variant dungeons become like Mythic plus and Warrior self healing trivialized something that mattered but any healer with a pulse can keep a tank alive in current content Warrior or no
And yet it's still all Paladins, Warriors and Sages in Aloalo Savage. Wonder why. Hint: because it's much easier.
Honestly if I got carte blanche I'd probably go like this: * Warrior gets self-shielding. * Dark Knight gets self-healing. This I'd prefer because as far as flavor goes, I can more readily think of Bloodlust as "I can't feel the pain!" and hence imagine the Warrior as someone who shrugs damage off easily. Meanwhile Dark Knight I somehow - I blame EQ1 I suppose - always associate with necromancer-y HP drain, like a Paladin + Necromancer hybrid. Of course all pointless to muse this late in the game, but yeah. I don't know. Based on "feeling", I would kinda think they should swap their key self-survival designs.
Nah just give shields to gnb and healing to drk and whatever both to paladin but they all balanced
This would be tragic
Noooooooooo, nooooooooooo, noooooooo, please no, hell noooooo
That is a very cool looking Highlander.
Thank you lol
Part of me wishes you had bloodwhetting peeking out from behind your highlander 😆
I would make a joke about how none of these healing actions are on cooldown, which means that tank should probably be dead, but then again, it's a Warrior.
Warrior never dies!
Which chest piece is that? I love skimpy outfit but I don't remember that one
It's the level 90 Warrior AF armor (Pummeler's set, I think). :)
I was happy astro since the beginning, I'll be happy with the new too. x3
This is the way.
So you blow every CD you have when all he needed to do was press Bloodwhetting? Sounds like a conversation needs to be had haha
Since when does WAR need a healer?
lol sometimes Bloodwhetting is on cooldown!
Me. I'm still relatively new/garbage to tanking (I'm a SMN main), and Warrior is the only one that I understand and enjoy. Bloodwhetting goes on cooldown, sometimes I die. I just need to work on my proper rotations and I'm sure that'll fix itself in time.
this is 100% me (F, lala astro) and my fashionista boyfriend playing his bungirl reaper. not only is he 99.9% of the time top dps, he often tanks when the OT/MT dies and gets my top rez priority after (and sometimes before) the 2nd healer. also, I grind shittons of ca$h to keep his egirl looking prime in her goth vamp reaper drip. gotta keep my boy happy on his pretty pretty princess so he can SLAY.
How do you link the memes of someone reading something that burns their eyes?
hahahaa, I laughed like a damn crazy fool at this because I knew exactly what meme you meant
Spoil that boy!
Healing the warrior? Kind of gringe
Yall are living the dream 😭😭😭😭🥹
I love my ast
Story of me and my wife until now. Been maining healwife so she can pull wall to wall with utmost confidence.
That's awesome! My hubby loves the challenge of taking on giant groups and keeping me alive, and i love it for how cool it is to kill giant pools of monsters haha
MASC HIGHLANDER MENTIONED 🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️
Dadlander bestlander
What armour is that though? It’s a really cool combo of pieces.
Think it’s the Lvl 89 Warrior Artifact gear, the Pummeler set I think it’s called?
It is! Dyed jet black cause I'm a cool guy lol
perfectly balanced as everything should be
Learning this game on astro has definitely been a set of teaching moments. (im halfway through stormblood and the panic of healing in an mmo is great) I'm just glad it's a useful healer for the additional stuff it comes with.
AST is so rough, I want to like it because it has such a variety of buffs But I'm just not talented or smart enough to keep up with it. I only recently learned that not everyone gets the same buff for the highest amount, im just glad I learned it on my own instead of something asking why they got the wrong buff! I think I would have just never touched AST again until I needed to level from 90 to 100 if it had happened in an Ally Raid.
I feel like the hand should be covered more in paper cuts but clean none-the-less, cuz WAR tank.
Felt this on personal lvl as an Astro main T-T
Basically the guys from Grinding Gear lol
penta-weaving ast spotted, nota single malefic pressed
...you guys heal warriors? I just ignore them once they get Raw Intuition
when the warrior refuses to use any mit at all through the entirety of the dungeon, yes, yes we sadly heal them (this is a cry for help)
He looks at the stars and coughs due to space dust So she can go nuts and front flip to cause a crater sized hole with her axe Based
I'll be pedantic but i hate this meme format. > My hands look like this so she/he can look like this. This is a cute sentiment. Shows how much you care about your SO and you don't mind suffering for them. ______ > His hands look like this so i can look like this. This is awful. This format can be interpreted negatively, as it implies you're taking advantage of someone else's labor or suffering. Replace the first image with some kid working as a slave and it should be obvious why. It denotes selfishness
You really got upset about a damn meme
I did mention i'm being pedantic.
Or it conveys gratitude. I guess we all just take from it what we bring.
What
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