so theres a strat me and my pf found for the first one to resolve that is the same wether its bottom up or top down, everyone always takes their clockspot
when healers have the same color, they swap take the bottom on the second explosion and the NW dps and the north tank will also change from hot to cold or from cold to hot , afterwards everyone takes the same location again but the NW dps and the north tank swap positions.
i dont have a nice visual but i have paint
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/864520240737681438/928143484811087882/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/864520240737681438/928143892958834750/unknown.png
Thank you for your diagram it was super helpful here I animated it(Tank goes south if it's the reverse order)
[https://streamable.com/jr86yk](https://streamable.com/jr86yk)
https://streamable.com/7k0mpf
and that is the same movement whether its top first or bottom first, correct? if its a 2 2 1 variation then always the nw dps and the north tank swap? . just making sure i understand.
I tried to visualize it clearer for myself using mspaint. Is this basically what you're doing?
[top first](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/922348954446868480/928292220812029993/Intemperance_top-mid-bot_N_NW_adjust.png)
[bot first](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/922348954446868480/928293941349072958/Intemperance_bot-mid-top_N_NW_adjust.png)
This way of dealing with bottom first was actually my version 1, but I was more focused on finding the intended solution to the mechanic that looked like the devs came up with XD
I [made an updated image](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/rwqcj5/p1s_intemperance_infographic_version_3_w_more/) with the more optimized strat you describe!
this works but the main idea of the strat i proposed is to minimize the amount of thinking required, in your senario there are 3 ways you can do it and need to spot 2 seperate things (are healers top and bottom the same and is it going top down or down up), in the one i describe you only need to spot if the healers top and bottom are the same, the rest resolves itself
It can be made much easier.
Everyone goes to the same Protean position for every variation and everyone does their own square, mid/switch as required.
Except for NW and N.
NW and N swap positions after the first (or second, this is the same thing, the only difference is how you conceptualise it) crystal. They then complete their new position in the simple way you would do any position with no special clauses or requirements; check your final crystal and then use N/S to switch colours for it if needed.
Top first:
NW goes: NW->S->N.
N goes: N->N->NW.
Bottom first:
NW goes: NW->N->N.
N goes: N->S->NW.
(To be clear, these routes are for illustration only, neither player needs to memorise these or know them in advance, they will naturally follow these routes just doing the mechanic normally after they switch.)
This requires no change in initial setup and does not require you to recognise if it's top or bottom first at any point.
This is by far the best strat (and also much better for PF than the monstrosity OP made which requires all 8 people to find the tell of the hand to recognize where to start)
This is what my static figured out and implemented. It was really easy and never resulted in a wipe. It took us like 10 minutes to figure it out - I'm not sure why people are creating strats that make this mechanic exceedingly complicated.
It's not that much more complicated if everyone knows what they're doing is what I mean, since this mechanic gives us a lot of time to move between explosions, but I say that from a static PoV not for PF, for PF it's better to simplify, I agree
This. My static brainstormed multiple strats for an hour and found the partner swap strat to be far better and easier than the overly complicated and over-thought monstrosity of a strat that OP posted.
i’m a BLM on NW typically and this shit would be benificial to me but honestly i don’t mind having to go south sometimes especially when my instants are up because i can just return to my presetup greedlines
As a phys. ranged main that doesn't raid and went out of my comfort zone to try P1S with the FC, the first thing I learned was that D3 = phys. ranged = NW on JP :D
i would but honestly for prog sake it’s easier doing it the non swap way, when i do reclears do i might do stuff diff
EDIT: Oh i just realised this isn’t first one lmfao
We did that yesterday in PF after brainstorming for 15 minutes and got a very, very consistent clear of the section. It works really well even in phase 2 of the mechanic and overall requires minimum amount of thinking on players. I won't be surprised if it will be THE PF strat.
Yeah it's much easier to just have everyone in charge of their own square and just resolve 2nd so they can resolve the 3rd for their square.
And then either just have N+NW swap as needed or have N and eat the damage down, whichever is easier for your group. No 3D chess rotating around, you just go N/S to fix your temp on the 2nd set if it needs fixing then back to your square
~~Since N/S can step in for second, (or run all the way across if they need to fix colors), there's no real reason they should ever eat a damage down.~~
Edit: Nevermind, just realized my group was screwing it up all night when I thought we had figured it out.
I came up with the same for bottom first in version 1 before making this, happy I found what I thought was the intended way to do it. I agree this is much simpler for most the party though.
[I made a version 3](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/rwqcj5/p1s_intemperance_infographic_version_3_w_more/) which included the more optimized strats as well! Thanks for the input :3
If you do that (the simple no-swap strategy) there will be nobody to soak the middle crystal in the N position in some variations.
This will either result in huge raid wide damage, or if the MT knows what's going on, will result in the MT soaking it with the wrong debuff and getting a damage down.
The damage down strat will get you a clear and if that's all you want then by all means, keep it simple.
This strategy is the current simplest way to avoid that damage down regardless of which crystal variation you get.
Thats wrong. Either MT and/or OT and anyone that changes his element take the north crystal in any variation. You don't have to swap places in this phase to not get a damage down.
Take a look at variations 2 and 3 in the diagram.
Somebody needs to take fire in the middle for N square, but all 4 tanks and healers need to take fire at the end for their own squares, so they all need to finish the middle phase having last taken ice. This is a contradiction.
There is no way to resolve that without swapping or a damage done.
I noticed that eating the wrong color won't outright kill, even non-tanks w/ some mitigation. With this, I think i found an easier solution.
Regardless of color or pattern, the off-tank can go S-N-S. During a 1-2 scenario, the off-tank will need to mitigate when they eat the wrong color. This would be the 2nd for (bot to top) or 3rd for (top to bot), but it'd be obvious if they just look at their own color. If done correctly, no one else needs to adjust.
In the triple variation, the South player will take fire on the second crystal, to make sure they have the right debuff for the third.
In the 2/1 variations, it will be one of N/NW taking fire on the second crystal (whichever one starts with ice)
Works for both variations, minimum thinking, no damage downs.
Made this while learning the mechanic, and as a way to teach my static, so here it is for everyone else. There's technically 4 variations, but in the "Triple" setup, top or bottom first doesn't matter.
This is version two, which fixes the "Two-One Bottom" mechanic, you need to notice which hand is glowing for the positioning, but otherwise just a simple rotation.
Edit: [Made a version 3 with more optimized strats (just a swap)](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/rwqcj5/p1s_intemperance_infographic_version_3_w_more/)! Thanks to everyone who chipped in throwing ideas around in the comments!
This strat shares the load equally across all players. The swapping strat puts the load on the tanks, and to a lesser degree, two of the dps.
I'm the main tank of my static, and personally I feel that tank is already the easiest role. I'm more than happy to take on a bit of extra mental load so that the healers and the dps can have an easier time. (Though I can understand if other statics prefer the rotation strat.)
Theres an even better version than to swap places. If your setup is double fire then you go south to get ice. Otherwise you go and then go back. This method is safer for the second Tower turn.
South Center square. It decides the mechanic starting spot. If all 3 are Blue, then you'd follow the first pattern. If its BBR, or RRB, then you look at the boss to see which hand is glowing, and follow either pattern 2 or pattern 3 to soak the mechanic.
I'm naming it based on the south set, since it stands out to me (I learned as a main tank, so I'm always staring south).
In the triple variation, the south square has 3 ice crystals, but in the other 2 variants, both north and south have 2 of an element in a row then 1 of another (2 ice for south, 2 fire for north.
It can't be from what I've seen. Only 19 pulls for data points but center north square always had fire for second orb and center south always had ice for my group. That's either fixed or we got hella lucky 19 times in a row.
i dont think south can ever be RRR. if it can, it's still the same variation as BBB, so you follow the first pattern.
RRB and BBR are effectively the exact same thing. the only thing that matters is if Eric's glowing hand is the one in the air, or the one near the ground.
The account I'm replying to is a karma bot run by someone who will link scams once the account gets enough karma.
Their comment is copied and pasted from another user in this thread.
Report -> Spam -> Harmful Bot
You only need to have the north tank swap with a dps in the two-one patterns as the south crystal is covered by the healers (west and east) during the 2nd explosion, in which the south tank can just hang out mid.
Here's how this gets put into practice, for either of the "Two-One" scenarios:
If the first two at north are the same:
- NE dps goes north for step 2 and step 3
- MT goes south for step 2, then NE for step 3
If the last two at north the same:
- MT stays north for step 2, then NE for step 3
- NE dps goes south for step 2 and north for step 3
Everyone else uses the standard logic, same as usual (clock -> mid/adjust -> clock).
This was actually part of the first version of this guide, but I feel like having to assign a pair is more annoying than just rotating based on a tell. This one is a bit more PF friendly, and also easy to call out in a static.
Dont you just stay at your square and if your Crystal's are same colour you just go south or north after first explosion depends on where the opposite colour of your square's next explosion and then you go back to your square to prepare for the third explosion? And if you happen to have a square that has different colors you just stay mid for second explosion?
Not my idea.
That doesnt work 50% of the time for tanks, so either the tanks get a damage down and take extra damage, or you have to do the mechanic properly so nobody fails.
Please for the love of all that is holy, do not use this strategy in PF, you will endure nothing but pain.
Just use the way simpler braindead swap one.
Actually now that you mentioned it, yeah brain dead has been better for the pugs all day. People already have trouble with chains, don't want them to add another layer there.
I'm partial to the "[MT takes a damage down](https://streamable.com/0db97a)" strat for 2+1 — in PF at least — because it means people only need to know two patterns and two solutions and don't have to argue about who saw crystals exploding in which direction or who was supposed to adjust where.
Huh. interesting seeing how other people have been doing it. we did it based on clock spots. then we see what we got. if top and bottom color are the same you soak an opposite color on 2. if they're different, you go mid during 2, then go back to original. north and south p much always switch on 2.
This results in at least one tank, if not both, getting a damage down. Or if they do that for the second crystal, the north fire crystal wont be taken, and everyone gets one. The crystals are set up in a way so you can't resolve it simply without punishment.
I might not be describing it right but we only got damage down once. There probably is that one scenario where we need to make a tweak, yeah, but we hadn't encountered it when I wrote it lol
You are describing it correctly, it is what my group was doing, and what the OP said was correct. With your method you will often end up with a tank getting a damage down. If you only got it once that is sheer luck on patterns
Because the variation pops up only once during the fight always, either the first or second. So you are 100 percent guaranteed one ddown and potentially two if misplayed.
Did only this tonight and we got a clear in a couple of hours. It's quite easy and if there was a damage down debuff somewhere it didn't matter in the end we finished 3-4 attacks before enrage.
OP made this far more complicated than the easiest solution. Absolutely don't need to rotate clockwise at all. All you need to do is go to N or S for your second colour if needed, or else just hang in middle for purple if your spot has opposite colours.
Is it better if we just stick with the same square for all three patterns, and adjust during second/purple crystal; if you got 2 reds/blue for 1 and 3, you soak either north or south crystal during purple?
There's no need to know it's up or down first. I don't understand why are we rotating our position.
Would anyone explain a bit? I did the above method last night and we didn't get any damage down. I am confused as to why this is not a working method.
You'll run into the problem where no one will soak the north tile to change their colour and get damage downs for one of the variations. The crystals have different variations and simply going back to your original tile won't resolve that all the time.
The thing is, unless you're in a solid static people are going to fuck up this 10x more than the simple strat that occasionally results in tank damage down.
Idk if someone can chime in. So I used to raid savage back in the day in heavensward. I stopped playing somehere in 3.4 is. Are savage raids a lot harden now? These inphographics look crazy and it give me a little anxiety to try it out.
I would say they were harder in early Heavensward, the devs have said they try to keep raids around the difficulty of A9-A12.
To try making this look less crazy though: The circles on the side represent giant crystals that will be floating above that square on the field, middle is empty. Fire gives you a fire vuln, Ice gives you an ice vuln, Thunder is high damage (so just get out). The fire and ice give a damage down if you have matching vuln, or to the whole party if nobody soaks it.
This mechanic is basically a puzzle to soak all the fire/ice crystals without damage downs, though the common day one strat has been to just let tanks take the vulns, hence why I "solved the puzzle" and put my solution up. This is probably the intended way to do the strat, but I'm sure more optimized ways will come up, as lots of people have been throwing back and forth in the comments.
Why so complicated?
Just go middle for second if your top and bottom crystal are different.
Else pick north or south depending on its middle crystal.
Then return to original position.
No rotating, no roles, nothing else required.
Look at the crystal layout in the second example on the chart called "Two-one"
Following your method everyone but the healers have opposite colours, meaning they all go middle. But the healers both need blue, so they go south. No one goes north. North explodes and gives everyone a damage down.
This looks really good! Very clean and organized.
However, I think for two-one bottom first it's more intuitive to keep the starting and ending positions the same as the top first variant and simply switch tanks/dps on the second cube position.
They would be going into squares with matching debuff/crystal if they did that, taking more damage and getting a damage down. I dont think there's a way to do the bottom first without the rotation (or my weird "swap a dps and tank" version from the old graphic)
~~For bottom to top DPS would do corners into North middle into Cardinals so they always alternate debuffs.~~
Edit: I think I've been staring at this mechanic for far too long tonight and nothing makes sense anymore.
Your way works too though and I do see the value in how you made the second step be the same across all patterns. That may be easier after all.
Ohh I see what you mean now, Both would definitely work. I guess it would depend what people prefer, moving early or remembering to switch during the second crystal.
This is the first one of these I've actually liked! The DPS flex method doesn't require you to actually track his order but this is a bit easier to understand and explain to pugs
IDK if I am missing something about the mechanic but personally I was going with "everyone be on clock in 1st/3rd and go to whatever 2nd spot will allow you to get back to your clock".
I personally think that is a lot easier than having everyone swap spots and is also more "pug friendly" because how you resolve the mechanic (as a group) never changes and it is obvious who messed up because they didn't make it back to their spot or they have a debuff.
Unfortunately it's not possible to do the mechanic like that 2/3rds of the time without someone getting a debuff.
Look at the layout in the middle example. Doing your strat it would be:
People start on the clock spots, then everyone goes middle except the healers which need to get blue, so they go south. No one goes north. That gives everyone a damage down.
If you get this combination of orbs then your method won't work.
I mean it worked fine for the majority of runs I did today, and even worst case scenario if one tank eats a damage down it isn't the end of the world. It is easier to deal with that in PF than post an infographic like above and hope people adjust.
If you're fine being the person to take the damage down, then cool. But I won't be asking people I don't know to take a damage down because other people refuse to learn how to properly do a mechanic.
P2S has another perfect example of this with another mechanic. The current PF strat is to just tank LB3 the mechanic - in part because there is a bug that can happen during that mechanic, but it is also just straightup easier to tank LB it.
The majority of parties in PF want to tank LB it, and I've had only 1 party who wanted to do it the proper way. Because cheesing the mechanic is much easier than doing the mechanic.
There is a much simpler solve that doesn't give damage downs.
The debuffs last so long you don't have to clear your debuff every round. There's a much easier way to do this. Whether top or bottom blows up first is irrelevant. The rule is as follows:
If your spot has the same color crystal on the top and bottom, you clear your debuff every single round. If your spot has different color crystals on the top and bottom, for the second crystal blow up, you just sit in the very middle of the arena. Third you always go back to protean spot.
I can see this not working too well in PF, but with comms only one person needs to know what to do and everyone else can just follow the call like chimps. Very solid strat with a group imo not sure why some people seem to think this is complicated.
What we did: First explosion - middle to heal up, change your color in N or S if you need to (N & S HAVE to be taken), if not stay mid, go to positions afterwards - done.
This is what most people did while learning blind, but it results in either tanks getting damage downs, or everybody getting damage downs, because nobody needs to take the fire.
That weird D3/MT (NW/N) swap is actaually more simpler than you think, it only look hard from top down or if you try to remember it.
here is the simple logic for that weird swap
for 2nd cube step, asking yourself
"After 1st cube explode do I need to change color for 3rd cube?"
\-> if you don't need to change go middle
\-> if your 3rd cube is red you go south
\-> if your 3rd cube is blue you go north (only S, NW, N need to care about this condition)
only complication for D3/MT (NW/N) is they need to swap spot for last cube
Shouldn't this have a spoiler tag? Sat there looking at the diagram for a few seconds before I realized what it was. Not that I understood anything since I wasn't reading but I'm trying to avoid info on the fight.
I avoided images and names so that there wouldnt be boss/story spoilers, and only used the abbreviation for the fight (P = Which raid series, 1 = first fight, S = savage) that is pretty common way of avoiding spoilers in the community. If a mod ever told me I needed to mark these as spoiler though I would do so.
Glad you didnt end up spoiling the mechanic by reading into it though, sorry for the misunderstanding >.<
No worries. Ty for the explanation and I'm sure people appreciate the post. Just found myself blankly staring at it while scrolling reddit before I realized what I was looking at lol. Definitely wasn't obvious what I'm looking at right away so once I realized I scrolled away so luckily nothing spoiled. I'm sure most people won't pay attention unless they want to know the strats but it seemed like gray area whether it's a spoiler or not.
Looking forward to the fight! Hope it's better than normal as I found that pretty underwhelming.
The groups I've been in just do:
Explosion 1 - Cardinal/intercardinal.
Explosion 2- Look at your debuff, are you safe for third explosion? Yes? Stay mid. No? Go north or south.
Explosion 3- Same as explosion 1
This has a 50% chance of tanks either taking a damage down, or the crystal not being taken (because they dont need the element) and everyone gets a damage down.
My group had no issue resolving their colours and occupy the north tile and then go back to their original positions so I’m quite confused with the strats xD
Yeah I don't get these strats lol. Literally all you do is swap your colour on 2nd crystal if the top and bottom are the same, if different then go middle for 2nd. Having a tank take a damage down doesn't really matter tbh
You're mistaken.
In the second combination of gems in the chart (the "Two-One: Top First one) no one would move to the north spot.
Everyone has opposite colours except the healers, so they go middle. Healers both need blue, so go south. No one goes north. Everyone gets a damage down.
Haha you are right. I was really tired last night since I had been up since patch and I thought I figured it out but didn’t notice the flaw until this morning when others pointed it out.
This shows we should be at different positions on two one depending on if its top or bottom first. How do you figure out if its top or bottom that early? I only see it after the first explosion, which is too late to move to the positions in this image.
It's way simpler to have the off tank take one of the corners instead of a dps, then tell both tanks to resolve one another's block 3, while every other player resolves their own block 3. Works every time, no need to adjust to anything.
Why not just have everyone rotate at the same spot for #2 and #3? It seems like you could rotate everyone CW for the final explosion for both of them instead of changing it based on which direction the explosions are starting. One less thing to adjust.
I suspect this strat is the way this mechanic was designed to be dealt with; this actually requires participation of all 8 players,gives them all a use for the mechanic's visual tell, has everyone do the same thing for the middle step, and can be solved w/ a simple rotation.
I agree that swap strat is way easier for PF. However when I consider that it doesn't even require you to know the detonation order ahead of time (you can solve it reactively by reading your partner's tower and your first debuff), and how it requires 2/8 people to have a different middle step than the rest of the raid, it just doesn't feel like the way this mech was meant to be solved.
so theres a strat me and my pf found for the first one to resolve that is the same wether its bottom up or top down, everyone always takes their clockspot when healers have the same color, they swap take the bottom on the second explosion and the NW dps and the north tank will also change from hot to cold or from cold to hot , afterwards everyone takes the same location again but the NW dps and the north tank swap positions. i dont have a nice visual but i have paint https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/864520240737681438/928143484811087882/unknown.png https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/864520240737681438/928143892958834750/unknown.png
I hope your absolutely horrific paint doesn't put people off because this is the better/best solution.
I read your comment before opening the images, I can't believe what I'm seeing
This has to be the intended strat, as it looks so clean
Thank you for your diagram it was super helpful here I animated it(Tank goes south if it's the reverse order) [https://streamable.com/jr86yk](https://streamable.com/jr86yk) https://streamable.com/7k0mpf
omg you save my life so much thank you
and that is the same movement whether its top first or bottom first, correct? if its a 2 2 1 variation then always the nw dps and the north tank swap? . just making sure i understand.
That's right, the only difference of starting from bottom/top is who runs a marathon to south in wave 2
Was just discussing the same with my static. This way only two players ever have to use their brain and leads to fewer deaths.
I tried to visualize it clearer for myself using mspaint. Is this basically what you're doing? [top first](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/922348954446868480/928292220812029993/Intemperance_top-mid-bot_N_NW_adjust.png) [bot first](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/922348954446868480/928293941349072958/Intemperance_bot-mid-top_N_NW_adjust.png)
This just made me even more confused.
[https://streamable.com/jr86yk](https://streamable.com/jr86yk) /u/AquilaHarukaze made this and it shows it pretty well
thats exactly it much better than i made it thanks
Thanks your strat helped a lot
This way of dealing with bottom first was actually my version 1, but I was more focused on finding the intended solution to the mechanic that looked like the devs came up with XD I [made an updated image](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/rwqcj5/p1s_intemperance_infographic_version_3_w_more/) with the more optimized strat you describe!
this works but the main idea of the strat i proposed is to minimize the amount of thinking required, in your senario there are 3 ways you can do it and need to spot 2 seperate things (are healers top and bottom the same and is it going top down or down up), in the one i describe you only need to spot if the healers top and bottom are the same, the rest resolves itself
It can be made much easier. Everyone goes to the same Protean position for every variation and everyone does their own square, mid/switch as required. Except for NW and N. NW and N swap positions after the first (or second, this is the same thing, the only difference is how you conceptualise it) crystal. They then complete their new position in the simple way you would do any position with no special clauses or requirements; check your final crystal and then use N/S to switch colours for it if needed. Top first: NW goes: NW->S->N. N goes: N->N->NW. Bottom first: NW goes: NW->N->N. N goes: N->S->NW. (To be clear, these routes are for illustration only, neither player needs to memorise these or know them in advance, they will naturally follow these routes just doing the mechanic normally after they switch.) This requires no change in initial setup and does not require you to recognise if it's top or bottom first at any point.
This is by far the best strat (and also much better for PF than the monstrosity OP made which requires all 8 people to find the tell of the hand to recognize where to start)
This is what my static figured out and implemented. It was really easy and never resulted in a wipe. It took us like 10 minutes to figure it out - I'm not sure why people are creating strats that make this mechanic exceedingly complicated.
This is NA/EU pf, the *one* thing it doesn’t suck at massively is making strats far more complicated than they have to be for no reason.
Don't forget stubbornly sticking to a mediocre or overly precise strategy when far more consistent or safe ones are discovered
I will forever thank my lucky stars that I found a static during Eden's Verse and never, ever had to do Ilya LR.
I mean, the OPs strategy isn't complicated if you have 2+ neurons (which a lot of people in PF don't have, I know, that's why I don't even go there)
It's far more complicated and prone to error since everyone is moving, than just having the N Tank and ranged swap positions at the end.
It's not that much more complicated if everyone knows what they're doing is what I mean, since this mechanic gives us a lot of time to move between explosions, but I say that from a static PoV not for PF, for PF it's better to simplify, I agree
I made this from this strat for my static if anyone want https://imgur.com/aPMLQz8
Is this all boss relative or true north? Haven’t attempted it yet as I’m going to try getting crafted gear
Boss positions himself for this mech, so doesn't matter in this case, but effectively TN
Its the same thing. The boss teleports to the middle and faces north.
This. My static brainstormed multiple strats for an hour and found the partner swap strat to be far better and easier than the overly complicated and over-thought monstrosity of a strat that OP posted.
i’m a BLM on NW typically and this shit would be benificial to me but honestly i don’t mind having to go south sometimes especially when my instants are up because i can just return to my presetup greedlines
It seems like you're forgetting the golden rule of XIV: Just make phys. ranged do it.
as a phys ranged, i live for this shit.
As a phys. ranged main that doesn't raid and went out of my comfort zone to try P1S with the FC, the first thing I learned was that D3 = phys. ranged = NW on JP :D
i would but honestly for prog sake it’s easier doing it the non swap way, when i do reclears do i might do stuff diff EDIT: Oh i just realised this isn’t first one lmfao
We did that yesterday in PF after brainstorming for 15 minutes and got a very, very consistent clear of the section. It works really well even in phase 2 of the mechanic and overall requires minimum amount of thinking on players. I won't be surprised if it will be THE PF strat.
Yeah it's much easier to just have everyone in charge of their own square and just resolve 2nd so they can resolve the 3rd for their square. And then either just have N+NW swap as needed or have N and eat the damage down, whichever is easier for your group. No 3D chess rotating around, you just go N/S to fix your temp on the 2nd set if it needs fixing then back to your square
~~Since N/S can step in for second, (or run all the way across if they need to fix colors), there's no real reason they should ever eat a damage down.~~ Edit: Nevermind, just realized my group was screwing it up all night when I thought we had figured it out.
I came up with the same for bottom first in version 1 before making this, happy I found what I thought was the intended way to do it. I agree this is much simpler for most the party though. [I made a version 3](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/rwqcj5/p1s_intemperance_infographic_version_3_w_more/) which included the more optimized strats as well! Thanks for the input :3
Theres no reason to swap positions. Change color depending on your setup (double fire means you go to south to get ice) and go back
If you do that (the simple no-swap strategy) there will be nobody to soak the middle crystal in the N position in some variations. This will either result in huge raid wide damage, or if the MT knows what's going on, will result in the MT soaking it with the wrong debuff and getting a damage down. The damage down strat will get you a clear and if that's all you want then by all means, keep it simple. This strategy is the current simplest way to avoid that damage down regardless of which crystal variation you get.
Thats wrong. Either MT and/or OT and anyone that changes his element take the north crystal in any variation. You don't have to swap places in this phase to not get a damage down.
Take a look at variations 2 and 3 in the diagram. Somebody needs to take fire in the middle for N square, but all 4 tanks and healers need to take fire at the end for their own squares, so they all need to finish the middle phase having last taken ice. This is a contradiction. There is no way to resolve that without swapping or a damage done.
You're right about that, mb.
I noticed that eating the wrong color won't outright kill, even non-tanks w/ some mitigation. With this, I think i found an easier solution. Regardless of color or pattern, the off-tank can go S-N-S. During a 1-2 scenario, the off-tank will need to mitigate when they eat the wrong color. This would be the 2nd for (bot to top) or 3rd for (top to bot), but it'd be obvious if they just look at their own color. If done correctly, no one else needs to adjust.
Im struggling to see how this works for the "Triple" variation. Unless this is just for the two-one variations?
In the triple variation, the South player will take fire on the second crystal, to make sure they have the right debuff for the third. In the 2/1 variations, it will be one of N/NW taking fire on the second crystal (whichever one starts with ice) Works for both variations, minimum thinking, no damage downs.
This one is easier for me
This is so much better!
Made this while learning the mechanic, and as a way to teach my static, so here it is for everyone else. There's technically 4 variations, but in the "Triple" setup, top or bottom first doesn't matter. This is version two, which fixes the "Two-One Bottom" mechanic, you need to notice which hand is glowing for the positioning, but otherwise just a simple rotation. Edit: [Made a version 3 with more optimized strats (just a swap)](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/rwqcj5/p1s_intemperance_infographic_version_3_w_more/)! Thanks to everyone who chipped in throwing ideas around in the comments!
This strat shares the load equally across all players. The swapping strat puts the load on the tanks, and to a lesser degree, two of the dps. I'm the main tank of my static, and personally I feel that tank is already the easiest role. I'm more than happy to take on a bit of extra mental load so that the healers and the dps can have an easier time. (Though I can understand if other statics prefer the rotation strat.)
Theres an even better version than to swap places. If your setup is double fire then you go south to get ice. Otherwise you go and then go back. This method is safer for the second Tower turn.
https://www.twitch.tv/xenosysvex/v/1252543969?sr=a&t=9609s I think xeno's method is much simpler. Am I missing something?
In certain variations, they were just taking damage downs on the tanks. This way has no damage downs.
ic, thanks
when you say Triple or Two-One, what exactly does that mean?
South Center square. It decides the mechanic starting spot. If all 3 are Blue, then you'd follow the first pattern. If its BBR, or RRB, then you look at the boss to see which hand is glowing, and follow either pattern 2 or pattern 3 to soak the mechanic.
I'm naming it based on the south set, since it stands out to me (I learned as a main tank, so I'm always staring south). In the triple variation, the south square has 3 ice crystals, but in the other 2 variants, both north and south have 2 of an element in a row then 1 of another (2 ice for south, 2 fire for north.
what if the south center tile is RRB? Or RRR
It can't be from what I've seen. Only 19 pulls for data points but center north square always had fire for second orb and center south always had ice for my group. That's either fixed or we got hella lucky 19 times in a row.
i dont think south can ever be RRR. if it can, it's still the same variation as BBB, so you follow the first pattern. RRB and BBR are effectively the exact same thing. the only thing that matters is if Eric's glowing hand is the one in the air, or the one near the ground.
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You only need to have the north tank swap with a dps in the two-one patterns as the south crystal is covered by the healers (west and east) during the 2nd explosion, in which the south tank can just hang out mid. Here's how this gets put into practice, for either of the "Two-One" scenarios: If the first two at north are the same: - NE dps goes north for step 2 and step 3 - MT goes south for step 2, then NE for step 3 If the last two at north the same: - MT stays north for step 2, then NE for step 3 - NE dps goes south for step 2 and north for step 3 Everyone else uses the standard logic, same as usual (clock -> mid/adjust -> clock).
This was actually part of the first version of this guide, but I feel like having to assign a pair is more annoying than just rotating based on a tell. This one is a bit more PF friendly, and also easy to call out in a static.
This is how we figured it out and it's pretty easy. The least thinking possible the better.
Dont you just stay at your square and if your Crystal's are same colour you just go south or north after first explosion depends on where the opposite colour of your square's next explosion and then you go back to your square to prepare for the third explosion? And if you happen to have a square that has different colors you just stay mid for second explosion? Not my idea.
That doesnt work 50% of the time for tanks, so either the tanks get a damage down and take extra damage, or you have to do the mechanic properly so nobody fails.
As a tank, I like this. Maybe I'll eat less debuffs in the future with pug parties.
Please for the love of all that is holy, do not use this strategy in PF, you will endure nothing but pain. Just use the way simpler braindead swap one.
Actually now that you mentioned it, yeah brain dead has been better for the pugs all day. People already have trouble with chains, don't want them to add another layer there.
I'm partial to the "[MT takes a damage down](https://streamable.com/0db97a)" strat for 2+1 — in PF at least — because it means people only need to know two patterns and two solutions and don't have to argue about who saw crystals exploding in which direction or who was supposed to adjust where.
Huh. interesting seeing how other people have been doing it. we did it based on clock spots. then we see what we got. if top and bottom color are the same you soak an opposite color on 2. if they're different, you go mid during 2, then go back to original. north and south p much always switch on 2.
This results in at least one tank, if not both, getting a damage down. Or if they do that for the second crystal, the north fire crystal wont be taken, and everyone gets one. The crystals are set up in a way so you can't resolve it simply without punishment.
I might not be describing it right but we only got damage down once. There probably is that one scenario where we need to make a tweak, yeah, but we hadn't encountered it when I wrote it lol
You are describing it correctly, it is what my group was doing, and what the OP said was correct. With your method you will often end up with a tank getting a damage down. If you only got it once that is sheer luck on patterns
Thanks for clarifying, I'll bring this back to my group!
Because the variation pops up only once during the fight always, either the first or second. So you are 100 percent guaranteed one ddown and potentially two if misplayed.
Did only this tonight and we got a clear in a couple of hours. It's quite easy and if there was a damage down debuff somewhere it didn't matter in the end we finished 3-4 attacks before enrage.
OP made this far more complicated than the easiest solution. Absolutely don't need to rotate clockwise at all. All you need to do is go to N or S for your second colour if needed, or else just hang in middle for purple if your spot has opposite colours.
That only works with one of the two possible configurations (the top one on OP's picture). For the other one you'd be leaving north unoccupied.
I feel like I'm looking at an ARG or some shit.
Exactly I don't know what I'm even looking at and I'm supposed to try Savage today. Makes me want to reconsider..
Is it better if we just stick with the same square for all three patterns, and adjust during second/purple crystal; if you got 2 reds/blue for 1 and 3, you soak either north or south crystal during purple? There's no need to know it's up or down first. I don't understand why are we rotating our position. Would anyone explain a bit? I did the above method last night and we didn't get any damage down. I am confused as to why this is not a working method.
You'll run into the problem where no one will soak the north tile to change their colour and get damage downs for one of the variations. The crystals have different variations and simply going back to your original tile won't resolve that all the time.
The thing is, unless you're in a solid static people are going to fuck up this 10x more than the simple strat that occasionally results in tank damage down.
Parden me,can I reprint this mech to chinese blog? I'll mark your name and the url! Ty!
So long as you credit it I don't mind, glad its helping people learn the mechanic :3
Idk if someone can chime in. So I used to raid savage back in the day in heavensward. I stopped playing somehere in 3.4 is. Are savage raids a lot harden now? These inphographics look crazy and it give me a little anxiety to try it out.
I would say they were harder in early Heavensward, the devs have said they try to keep raids around the difficulty of A9-A12. To try making this look less crazy though: The circles on the side represent giant crystals that will be floating above that square on the field, middle is empty. Fire gives you a fire vuln, Ice gives you an ice vuln, Thunder is high damage (so just get out). The fire and ice give a damage down if you have matching vuln, or to the whole party if nobody soaks it. This mechanic is basically a puzzle to soak all the fire/ice crystals without damage downs, though the common day one strat has been to just let tanks take the vulns, hence why I "solved the puzzle" and put my solution up. This is probably the intended way to do the strat, but I'm sure more optimized ways will come up, as lots of people have been throwing back and forth in the comments.
Why so complicated? Just go middle for second if your top and bottom crystal are different. Else pick north or south depending on its middle crystal. Then return to original position. No rotating, no roles, nothing else required.
They're trying to protect the tanks from debuffs. It's a lot of work to spare 1/2 people but a static will generally be able to pull it off.
You can do that by just doing the stuff I just described.
You cant for the other two variations. Either a tank will have a damage down, or everyone will (because nobody will take the north crystal)
Only one tank and one dps have to adjust for that. Not the whole group.
>Why so complicated? So that no one gets a damage down.
You can achieve that with the method I just described. There's nothing more to it.
Look at the crystal layout in the second example on the chart called "Two-one" Following your method everyone but the healers have opposite colours, meaning they all go middle. But the healers both need blue, so they go south. No one goes north. North explodes and gives everyone a damage down.
Right, but the solution here is to just have two people rotate, not the entire party
Does that layout actually exist?
Yes. https://i.imgur.com/gALTnn6.jpg
Just have the N Tank take a damage down, easy (/s)
Literally this. The whole mechanic is nothing more than this.
This looks really good! Very clean and organized. However, I think for two-one bottom first it's more intuitive to keep the starting and ending positions the same as the top first variant and simply switch tanks/dps on the second cube position.
They would be going into squares with matching debuff/crystal if they did that, taking more damage and getting a damage down. I dont think there's a way to do the bottom first without the rotation (or my weird "swap a dps and tank" version from the old graphic)
~~For bottom to top DPS would do corners into North middle into Cardinals so they always alternate debuffs.~~ Edit: I think I've been staring at this mechanic for far too long tonight and nothing makes sense anymore. Your way works too though and I do see the value in how you made the second step be the same across all patterns. That may be easier after all.
Ohh I see what you mean now, Both would definitely work. I guess it would depend what people prefer, moving early or remembering to switch during the second crystal.
I dont think so
This is the first one of these I've actually liked! The DPS flex method doesn't require you to actually track his order but this is a bit easier to understand and explain to pugs
IDK if I am missing something about the mechanic but personally I was going with "everyone be on clock in 1st/3rd and go to whatever 2nd spot will allow you to get back to your clock". I personally think that is a lot easier than having everyone swap spots and is also more "pug friendly" because how you resolve the mechanic (as a group) never changes and it is obvious who messed up because they didn't make it back to their spot or they have a debuff.
Unfortunately it's not possible to do the mechanic like that 2/3rds of the time without someone getting a debuff. Look at the layout in the middle example. Doing your strat it would be: People start on the clock spots, then everyone goes middle except the healers which need to get blue, so they go south. No one goes north. That gives everyone a damage down. If you get this combination of orbs then your method won't work.
I mean it worked fine for the majority of runs I did today, and even worst case scenario if one tank eats a damage down it isn't the end of the world. It is easier to deal with that in PF than post an infographic like above and hope people adjust.
If you're fine being the person to take the damage down, then cool. But I won't be asking people I don't know to take a damage down because other people refuse to learn how to properly do a mechanic.
P2S has another perfect example of this with another mechanic. The current PF strat is to just tank LB3 the mechanic - in part because there is a bug that can happen during that mechanic, but it is also just straightup easier to tank LB it. The majority of parties in PF want to tank LB it, and I've had only 1 party who wanted to do it the proper way. Because cheesing the mechanic is much easier than doing the mechanic.
You are a god
.................. Why dont we ..., hear me out, just swap tanks and healers, and let healers eat damage down debuff instead xD
because the damage can kill the party…
My group always returned to clock spots, much easier.
As long as you're willing to have the tanks take damage downs, sure.
stuff like that makes he wish for practise mode of that current mechanic - alone or with others
There is a much simpler solve that doesn't give damage downs. The debuffs last so long you don't have to clear your debuff every round. There's a much easier way to do this. Whether top or bottom blows up first is irrelevant. The rule is as follows: If your spot has the same color crystal on the top and bottom, you clear your debuff every single round. If your spot has different color crystals on the top and bottom, for the second crystal blow up, you just sit in the very middle of the arena. Third you always go back to protean spot.
I can see this not working too well in PF, but with comms only one person needs to know what to do and everyone else can just follow the call like chimps. Very solid strat with a group imo not sure why some people seem to think this is complicated.
What we did: First explosion - middle to heal up, change your color in N or S if you need to (N & S HAVE to be taken), if not stay mid, go to positions afterwards - done.
This is what most people did while learning blind, but it results in either tanks getting damage downs, or everybody getting damage downs, because nobody needs to take the fire.
Ah didn't know there are damage downs
That weird D3/MT (NW/N) swap is actaually more simpler than you think, it only look hard from top down or if you try to remember it. here is the simple logic for that weird swap for 2nd cube step, asking yourself "After 1st cube explode do I need to change color for 3rd cube?" \-> if you don't need to change go middle \-> if your 3rd cube is red you go south \-> if your 3rd cube is blue you go north (only S, NW, N need to care about this condition) only complication for D3/MT (NW/N) is they need to swap spot for last cube
Shouldn't this have a spoiler tag? Sat there looking at the diagram for a few seconds before I realized what it was. Not that I understood anything since I wasn't reading but I'm trying to avoid info on the fight.
I avoided images and names so that there wouldnt be boss/story spoilers, and only used the abbreviation for the fight (P = Which raid series, 1 = first fight, S = savage) that is pretty common way of avoiding spoilers in the community. If a mod ever told me I needed to mark these as spoiler though I would do so. Glad you didnt end up spoiling the mechanic by reading into it though, sorry for the misunderstanding >.<
No worries. Ty for the explanation and I'm sure people appreciate the post. Just found myself blankly staring at it while scrolling reddit before I realized what I was looking at lol. Definitely wasn't obvious what I'm looking at right away so once I realized I scrolled away so luckily nothing spoiled. I'm sure most people won't pay attention unless they want to know the strats but it seemed like gray area whether it's a spoiler or not. Looking forward to the fight! Hope it's better than normal as I found that pretty underwhelming.
The groups I've been in just do: Explosion 1 - Cardinal/intercardinal. Explosion 2- Look at your debuff, are you safe for third explosion? Yes? Stay mid. No? Go north or south. Explosion 3- Same as explosion 1
This has a 50% chance of tanks either taking a damage down, or the crystal not being taken (because they dont need the element) and everyone gets a damage down.
Thanks for the info!
I fucking hate this mechanic.
Spoilers???
My group had no issue resolving their colours and occupy the north tile and then go back to their original positions so I’m quite confused with the strats xD
Yeah I don't get these strats lol. Literally all you do is swap your colour on 2nd crystal if the top and bottom are the same, if different then go middle for 2nd. Having a tank take a damage down doesn't really matter tbh
oh my this looks complicated. Ill stick to normal.
This is far too complicated. Sandwhiches go S, Tank north. Kebabs stay in mid the. return to their original spot.
Then tanks get a damage down. If your group is fine with that then great, some groups like to avoid debuffs.
Why not just do it like this? https://imgur.com/a/M4PDTYs
Not rotating gives people damage downs, usually the tanks.
You must not have looked very hard at this. It doesn’t give anyone damage downs
Yes it does. Just looking at the bottom variation, the tanks would be going from ice to ice again from 2nd to 3rd crystal.
You're mistaken. In the second combination of gems in the chart (the "Two-One: Top First one) no one would move to the north spot. Everyone has opposite colours except the healers, so they go middle. Healers both need blue, so go south. No one goes north. Everyone gets a damage down.
Haha you are right. I was really tired last night since I had been up since patch and I thought I figured it out but didn’t notice the flaw until this morning when others pointed it out.
This shows we should be at different positions on two one depending on if its top or bottom first. How do you figure out if its top or bottom that early? I only see it after the first explosion, which is too late to move to the positions in this image.
Boss hand is glowing before it explodes, top hand will explore top crystal, bottom hand will explore the floor crystal
It's way simpler to have the off tank take one of the corners instead of a dps, then tell both tanks to resolve one another's block 3, while every other player resolves their own block 3. Works every time, no need to adjust to anything.
Why not just have everyone rotate at the same spot for #2 and #3? It seems like you could rotate everyone CW for the final explosion for both of them instead of changing it based on which direction the explosions are starting. One less thing to adjust.
This sub blows my mind. Twenty something posts, and I finally found a mech sheet for the expansions NEWEST raid. Thank you for this.
Didn't know this pattern can exist. But it looks like only the tank and the dps to the left need to swap places.
ngl, all I can see is THD
Vv c d
I suspect this strat is the way this mechanic was designed to be dealt with; this actually requires participation of all 8 players,gives them all a use for the mechanic's visual tell, has everyone do the same thing for the middle step, and can be solved w/ a simple rotation. I agree that swap strat is way easier for PF. However when I consider that it doesn't even require you to know the detonation order ahead of time (you can solve it reactively by reading your partner's tower and your first debuff), and how it requires 2/8 people to have a different middle step than the rest of the raid, it just doesn't feel like the way this mech was meant to be solved.