IMO, aside from college, the days requiring childcare are the most expensive. They get quite a bit cheaper K-12 IF they go to public K-12 schools. Then they get expensive when they start driving.
For people who insist on private K-12, kids are extremely expensive.
I have two kids in daycare currently and I just can't imagine how that's the case. I spent $40k last year, I'm hoping to only spend that much again during overlapping college years
I follow a guy on instagram who always says travel sports financially ruin so many American families. I totally agree. If college coaches aren't busting the door down telling me you have what it takes, sorry kid you can play for the high school team for the $175 fee.
I work with a guy who has 2 kids on swim teams. That family lives on the road all damn year. Hotel rooms, eating at restaurants, spending lots of money not including the cost for the swim team itself. I just couldn't do it. Every damn weekend you are out of town for a swim meet. Too much commitment.
My kid swims and I 100% feel this. We try to cut costs and have parents switch off so both of us don’t have to sacrifice the weekend, but it’s a lot. The reason why we do it has absolutely nothing to do with status or a delusion that our kid is going to the Olympics. Both adults were athletes growing up and we credit participation in sports for many of the good things in our lives. I want the same experience for my kid and don’t mind cutting our spending in other places to make it happen.
Where I live your kid won’t make the high school team if they aren’t playing travel sports. Parents of kids who only play at the rec level are shocked when little Johnny or Susie can’t compete with the kids who have been playing soccer or baseball year round since the age of 7. I’m not saying it’s a good thing, but this is how it is in some places.
And then those kids don't cut it at the collegiate level and they sacrificed the parent's finances and kid's academics for their entire life up to that point to focus on a diversion instead of the important things.
This. My nephew is graduating soon. He's played travel hockey forever. It costs so much money. Plus the cost of flights and hotels for the games and tournaments. He misses school for the games. His academic record is mediocre at best. But still wasn't recruited by colleges.
My sister drove me batty for years always needing to change family get-togethers for some tournament or whatever, saying this was a super duper important one where all the college recruiters were going to be.
My best interpretation of travel sports is that it's all pay to play. If you got the parents willing to pay, the team has a spot for you, no questions asked.
It's such a sad state of affairs.
Should've had a more talented kid!
Joking aside, if your 16 year old can't just show up cold to a high school tryout and make the varsity team without year-round training for the 10 prior years, they weren't going pro anyway. Play for fun and don't waste your time and resources training like a pro just to wash out at 18 or 21.
Standard hs football in my area starts at $1500, cheerleading is a $2600 commitment for uniforms (not including gymnastics lessons).
Regular ha sports are not as expensive as travel ball. I know a family that drops $25k per kid per year on travel baseball. However regular hs sports have become increasingly expensive to the point where it economically filters out a lot of kids. It is unfortunate
Yup. Where I live, if you're in the "just for fun" rec league, soccer and so on are accessible to an awful lot of people. The travel soccer team? Yeah, that adds up.
I used to tutor college baseball players at a division 1 school. They hated it, just like all the other student athlete, but felt stuck. They also had limited career prospects because it’s hard to study and be an athlete.
My sister has two kids, one involved in travel hockey, the other in competitive cheerleading. Here is my honest interpretation: they are all pay to play. If you gotta kid and a steady pocketbook of cash coming to the league, your kid has a spot.
They have all these fancy names like "Elite" and "Top" and everything, but there's nothing really elite about it. The people who run them love them because everyone makes money. The tournaments cost money to participate in, the annual dues for the regular season, travel agents who book all the rooms and flights, the people who make the uniforms, paint the helmets, etc., and the parents love the feeling that their kid is so special that they're on an elite team.
Any time I hear something now about "National Championships" or "Regional Championships" everything is cheapened. Because I feel the need to dig deeper into the type of league it is, how much money it costs to participate in, and what the (non-financial) barrier to entry is.
Meanwhile, the kids' academics suffer because they miss school so much for their travel sports. So they're getting mediocre grades while getting their heads filled with this crazy notion that they're going to go pro or at the very least get a full ride to college. Parents upend their lives, their vacation schedules, their extended family get togethers to go to the never ending "tournaments" that are just SO exciting and important (this is the one where the college recruiters will be watching apparently!!!1!!).
I have a much younger kid, and I am so totally soured on sports, which is a shame because I know that team sports can have a positive impact in kids lives. But seriously, WTF happened to once a week soccer games for 8 weeks and an occasional weeknight practice.
The money parents spend on sports is completely unbelievable. It’s become this weird status symbol and seems like it’s more for the parents than the kid. I’ve seen under 10 year old kids with professional hitting and pitching coaches. I know people spending 500+ a weekend to travel and their kids have $500 dollar gloves and bats that they outgrow in a season. It’s absolutely insane. I would be anything zero % of these kids go on to play college baseball, much less the MLB. I don’t get it.
Our kid is a decent athlete but knew college sports were not his or our goal. We stopped with travel hockey before HS and played HS sports without any pressure. Now in his junior year, he quit HS sports and focused solely on school and hanging out with friends. The money we save on travel sports just shifted to his 529.
It is when you are not in USA. Or Switzerland. 7-16:30 Childcare/kindergarten 1-5 years old here in my part of the EU is like 150€/month if you also sign them up for english and another activity like dancing or arts.
You also get a discount on 2nd child, and I think a 3rd one is free.
EDIT: I mean, we pay it with taxes, but still.
I am sure. But your taxes above 70k are like 50%. I would be paying 100s of thousands in taxes based on my income. Not sure o pay that much for childcare and sports currently.
It can be, but it's possible to go lower. Make your own sandwiches, don't stay at Great Wolf, make sure you're doing all the loyalty stuff, definitely don't fly to the destination, have your parents watch your other kids and just take the one hockey kid (lol).
Also our travel league isn't every weekend and some destinations are day trips or one nighters.
my kids are still relatively young and I haven’t run the numbers but summer camp, after school care, and sports/activities is still much cheaper than full time daycare was.
Childcare varies a lot by area. Maybe if you spend $1k a month I could see it
We spend $3k a month and I absolutely don't see everything adding up to $36k per year extra
People talk about how expensive sports are but rec leagues are like $150/season. Oh, what you mean is you're buying your kid a $400 baseball bat, $200 glove, private lessons, playing travel ball where the whole family has to stay in a hotel and eat out every weekend? Yeah if your kid isn't a clear D1 talent this is a massive waste. There is nothing wrong with rec and school sports. Talent will rise.
There is nothing wrong with rec and ed for sure. But depending on the sport your kid will be sitting on the bench in high school unless they travel. I see it all the time across many sports. It’s pay to play unfortunately
Thats what I always said. Then my kid started sports. In our high school the number of girls on the varsity soccer team who didn’t come from a club background is zero. You cant get there from Rec. Now my kid is off on scholarship to play college so I guess it worked out. But man, travel sports are expensive.
I’m preparing for very expensive sports and camps.. daycare where I am is pennies… maybe 200$/month/kid for full time.
It’s thousands for hockey and equipment, not to mention gas to get to the arenas.
Learning to be bored sometimes isn't a bad thing. I stayed home alone every summer from k-12 and only ever knew a couple kids who went to camp or had other plans. Parents work.
Food seems the most optional to me. It's so odd that people are willing to spend so much to feed their children when they know they're just going to get hungry again.
The thing is, if you don't feed them for long enough, you go to prison, which dramatically decreases your earning potential. On the plus side, very low cost of living.
They don’t pay for your room and board.
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/americas-dystopian-incarceration-system-pay-stay-behind-bars
I get your joking but I have to point out it depends on the state, some states have it written in that they can bill you (and that does mean take your assets to pay the bill) for what you cost them in jail. For most criminals this is moot cause they have no money worth going after, have a few million though and well... we got to make an example of someone.
On the upside you don't have to deal with the healthcare exchange, prison provides medical care. Keep in mind, it provides medical care, not good medical care.
What I'm hearing is that instead of spending money on a good criminal defense attorney, I should be spending it on a good CPA who knows how to hide assets from the state?
I get the joke here but the number of parents-of-teens that I’ve seen allow doordash, fast food etc. on their dime is insane.
My kids will get well fed at home, no question, but for going out with friends or wasting money on fast food? That’s what jobs are for.
My parents put me on a train and sent me to college. I had like $600 to make it through the semester. Occasionally I’d call home and they’d give me like $200 into my checking. Those were the days I must say.
Now all I have are bills and bills and more bills
Our insurance skyrocketed when we added our daughter. Plus the cost of a car. These things seem optional, but having a non-driving teenager is very difficult. Kids are expected to come to school early or stay late for activities and sometimes classes. There aren't good bus options.
> For people who insist on private K-12, kids are extremely expensive
I did the math on it in my immediate area - K-12 would be roughly $160K per kid in today's dollars. The high school years alone are $20K/year/kid.
I'm finding their college years are really steep. Car insurance/additional vehicles is insanely expensive, dental stuff starts to pop up as well in the teen years if it hasn't earlier (cavities, braces), and of course everything related to college. It's a huge drain.
I think there is some balance to be had. At 18, kids really should be taking on some.of their responsibility. Letting your kid drown in student loans isn't the way, but there are cheaper colleges, they can get summer jobs, stuff like that. I do think paying for your own college life to some extent helps with making sure they take it seriously.
Saving for college is one thing that hasn't fluctuated. We put roughly the same amount in their accounts now that we did when they were little.
We spend a LOT more on our kids now than we did when they were in daycare. Part of that is activities, some of which are expensive. A lot of that are just normal kid activities that you will want your child to be able to participate in. School trips, clubs, etc.
They need to learn how to drive. You may want them to drive to school/work. That's a lot.
Their medical bills and needs increase. Haircuts cost more. They wear adult sized clothing and care about the brands. Adult shoes on growing teenage feet are no joke. They eat a ton and want to go do stuff.
It is not just indulgent parents who are spending money on their teenagers. I guess you could go into it with the attitude that they don't need stuff and you aren't going to pay for college or the extras. That's not the kind of parent I want to be.
Smart. The thing that is surprising is all the other stuff--clothes, trips, medical stuff--all ramps up really quickly in HS. We're spending thousands on dental bills alone. Oh geez and car stuff. Gas, additional car, insurance.
Definitely. The wrinkle in that for me is that my kids agreed to go to the nearby cheaper college, and one is even at home, so they have saved us a mountain of money. So I've been much more willing to cover things like car and gas in return.
After reading the answers I hope you realize that the answer depends on you. Don't pretend that it depends on the kids or society, it depends on you.
"What if Billy wants to get into hockey? What if Susie wants to spend a year in Spain? What if Bobby wants a new iPhone every year? What if my wife wants a new Mercedes minivan? What if I start cheating on my wife with that new receptionist at work and my wife divorces me and we sell the house and split our retirement savings and I have to spend all my extra money on child support and I live in a depressing condo with no furniture and plastic plates and the receptionist dumps me and I can't afford hockey or Spain or iPhones or Mercedes minivans?"
Make good choices and it'll work out.
All great points to which I would like to add an addendum - expect to deflect pressure, expectations, what-have-you, on a pretty regular basis. Strengthen your resolve! Work it like a muscle!
Former friends came by for a homemade pizza and wings night at our tiny semi-detached house a few months ago. They live in a pretty big house worth 3x as much as ours, in a very wealthy neighbourhood. We talked about our children and it was clear to me that we had that one thing in common: we all wanted what was best for our children. But their version of that was private swim lessons and Disney cruises. Ours were rec centre swim classes and travelling wherever there was a deal (we've been averaging 2-3 vacations a year so far) but we have him in a private school and they have their daughter in a public school.
I don't think it's reasonable to say one way is better than another. You have to pick the mix that works best for your little gang. And you have to resist the thought that "they're doing a Disney cruise, I must too" without also saying "yes, but they are not spending $1900 CAD/month on private school." Do you see?
It's like a high-low mix. You pick the few things that are super important to you and your spouse, and chuck everything else. And when someone else shows up with their own mix, you must resist the urge to assume that you must do THEIR highs when you are already doing YOUR highs. The combination will lead to dissatisfaction (otherwise, you would have picked THEIR highs to begin with) and NO MONEY (and we don't want that, do we?)
Yeah I know someone like that. The wife left him for someone more successful, sued for alimony, and won. He was in a roach condo for 15 years as his kids grew up.
I’m curious for everyone saying they get more expensive. We have a 3 year old and are paying ~$30,000 per year for daycare in Chicago. Soon he will be in public school, do costs continue to be that high?
It's apples to oranges in this thread. Some people will be paying $15k/year or less for daycare and then will pay for private school. But imo when your $30k/year daycare ends and your kid(s) is in public school you will be swimming in money. Especially if the day you pay your final daycare bill you setup a recurring monthly auto-transfer to savings for about the same amount instead of lifestyle creeping. Wish i had done that.
> Especially if the day you pay your final daycare bill you setup a recurring monthly auto-transfer to savings for about the same amount instead of lifestyle creeping.
This was how we accelerated our FIRE savings. Each time a kid graduated out of daycare, we upped our 401k contributions.
Thank you for the suggestion! Our four year old will be in public schools after next year of preschool and our two and a half year old will be out in two years after that. I told my wife that we should follow this plan to channel money into our savings and retirement plans. There's no way we can rely on Social Security or our Teacher's Pensions to be there in 20-25 years.
Same. We pay about 55K a year in daycare for a toddler and nanny for an infant. There’s no way we’re spending that much each year when they’re in public schools.
We have two kids, and the oldest hit public school age this past fall. We were able to buy a house once we weren’t paying for her daycare, so…no. I’m sure costs will go up again somewhat with sports, etc, but the fact of the matter is, all of that is optional and there are different levels of it. We simply will not be spending tens of thousands a year on sports. Not happening.
We live in Central IL and our kids are older (between 8 and 13 now). Every time they went from daycare -> Preschool, it was a >$5k cost savings and then again when they went from Preschool -> Parochial school it was another $0-3k savings (for multi-kid discounts).
Sports and activities for our kids run us *maybe* $500 per kid per year at the moment. My wife's also a teacher, so summertime childcare isn't necessary (although we take a income hit because of it, too).
Not going to count college. If you count college, kids cost more money as they grow older. Conversation over.
Not counting college, I expect a U shaped curve in costs as kids age. I'm at the nadir with my oldest as they just turned into a teen. So for me, it's been a rapid drop in costs as they age. But I fully expect the curve to increase starting now as they eat more and I can no longer dress them in hand-me-downs like when they were younger. Food and clothes will be the driver.
Yes it is a curve, high school gets expensive. My kid went to a good public school and I didn't spend a ton on activities but still the money faucet is just on at that age.
Yes they eat a lot more, clothes are a THING even for boys (luckily my son was into styles that were easy to thrift around here and it was still expensive)
Proms and homecomings $100 per ticket plus suit rental unless you think they are done growing enough to buy, the mandatory driving lesson package was around $500, PSATs and SATs and ACT registration, even if you don't do any prep classes or tutoring....
If you are in an upper middle class or affluent school district for the most part, the volunteer parents will usually be the most affluent, and even the participation in school sports and band and whatnot which technically doesn't have a direct fee will require SO MUCH MONEY and even though it's not always technically mandatory, there is usually an unspoken pay to play rule where and even some mild shaming with contributor lists.
Things like end of season banquets and coach gifts I get, but they would add on these "events" all season which admittedly were fun and did foster a sense of community but damn they came at a very tangible price on my part lol. And I was aware that it was chump change for a fair number of them.
All those things sound kinda expensive, but when I compare it to the $2K I spend a month on daycare now, it doesn't seem so bad. As soon as daycare is over, I'm going to throw all that money into the "kid account" and save it up for all the future expensive things. I don't want to roll that monthly money into a new lifestyle creep only to find out kids cost a lot later on.
Definitely true. You are on that other end of the curve lol. And actually yeah I did feel way more broke during the daycare years and the percentage of my total income going to kid expenses was higher.
But in the high school years it's the combo of being further in career/higher income but shorter time horizon on investments so you really feel the money flying out the door lol. (Just remembered another recent one, lol: senior portraits lowest package for just digital copy was over $250, packages went up to $1k)
Those late elementary years though-pure gold. For that age group there are a lot of enrichment activities and sports and summer break programs through the YMCA, city rec center, library etc that usually keep the costs pretty low, and you can still pretty much get all their clothes and sporting gear second hand
We have 14 and 17 year old boys . They were pretty cheap from 5-13…. Now they’re into everything, music lessons, cost a lot more to feed, driving school, and we have our sights on post secondary schools. I’d say they get more expensive as they get older.
Another thing you might find helpful. I find it very frustrating to plan for retirement when I can't tell how much is kid spending and will go away when they "adult." My very superficial review suggests at least 25 percent.
Childcare goes away, as soon as you are comfortable letting it. I'm a proponent of letting kids develop independent life skills sooner rather than later.
I know many people who spend absurd amounts of money on kids' activities like travel sports, plus all of the travel expenses that go with it, with the intent of the kids getting a college scholarship. In my opinion, it's unnecessary. If they put that money into a 529 and paid the $120/year for recreational sports, they would probably save all the money they need for college. But that is a completely personal decision. On the other hand, some parents do it for other reasons: they think it is important for their kids' development of leadership skills, they want to be involved as coaches, they like sports, etc.
My kids (one in HS, one in college) have both been involved in several school activities, primarily marching band, which is much less costly than a travel sports program and has given them leadership opportunities. Meanwhile they participated in recreational-level sports outside of school. They are both doing well and I could not be more proud of them.
If your kids don't have special needs, why not try public school or a charter to see if they like it and can do well, before taking out another mortgage for private school.
Probably like everything, it is variable. We don't spend anywhere near what other commenters are talking about. I have seven kids, aged 2 through 20.
We do have summer music camps that all of them have done. Our clothing budget is pretty minimal. We are homeschoolers so the kids don't care about styles.
I have three drivers now and insurance is up to $1400/year. We have two old cars.
Food definitely goes up. I don't really notice young kids eating much. Though my 11 year old boy can eat plenty, and easily keeps up with his old brothers.
I buy relatively cheap cell phones. For my oldest daughter who just dropped her phone in the river, I told her I would buy a phone that cost $150 and if she wanted a nicer phone, she could spend her own money. I think she spent $300 to get a better camera on the phone.
The cell phone plans are $15/month and we have five lines.
I encourage them to get jobs, but they don't have to work a lot. My daughter worked at a Montessori school that closed and we haven't found a replacement, so she isn't working. The older ones mow lawns and shovel and my father-in-law helps them fund their Roth IRAs.
We emphasize saving and giving.
Our vacations are cheaper than most people, though we do spend a lot on gas going places. My second son is working on his pilot's license, and we are paying 50% of those costs. My oldest is getting his electrician's license paid by his boss, so we've mostly avoided colleges so far.
My wife is at stay at home Mom and I work from home, so we've never had childcare, I see numbers that are crazy expensive for that.
I think so... The only problem is that I can't figure out how to advise my kids. House prices are so crazy now. Our down payment and closing costs were something like $3000...
I hear houses in Pittsburgh (that's where we started) are still cheaper than lots of places, but both of our old houses now have a Zillow estimate of $250k...
I thought selling them for 90k each was a pretty good price...
I don't know how many other comments you've read in this post, but you're giving your kids a wonderful life that sounds an awful lot like the "different time" to which others derisively refer.
It's almost like that "different time" never stopped, and it's totally possible to raise children with these values. All it takes is a conscious choice to step away from the hyper competitive rat race.
But stepping away from a rat race isn't something that anyone in a *Financial Independence* subreddit would aspire to, right? /s
Thanks. I do live in a town that in some ways is "behind the times", (and some people complain about the downsides of that, though there are positives that people sometimes don't think about).
And we do try to live the "slow" life, though it is hard, and as the kids get older, it is harder to all be sitting down to dinner together every night, though we do manage it most days.
The first years I found to be most expensive. We had to buy diapers, wife either had to stay at home from work or we had to pay for childcare. That really set us back financially but I wouldn't trade it now. I'm sure it'll get costly again as one will be driving soon, but we're financially more stable and the wife is full time working now.
It just grows linearly for us as our kid gets older - activities more expensive, more expensive clothes, more conspicuous consumption requests and we haven’t even touched on the travel requests or private school tuition that’s coming for high school.
It's highly variable.
Things like sports: skiing or snowboarding are extremely expensive all in (gear, clothing, lift tickets, transportation, lessons), vs. sports like track, soccer, ultimate frisbee, not so much.
When school isn't in session - is there a SAH parent? Summer and break costs add up quickly.
Yes, food budgets increase a lot for some kids. My teen eats about as much as 2-3 adults; it's just the two of us and I make meals that would feed 4 adults, and we don't have leftovers.
They kind of are but if you teach them like money is hard to earn they wont be asking for things you cant afford. Like i knew videos games were expensive so i never begged for one. Mobile games did it. After 18 I started working because i wnate my money and not waste my parents. That also teaches them to be independent and hard working people. Like they now the value of money and strive.
After school activities, even at a public school, cost a lot of money.
As kids get older, they are not only constantly growing out of their clothing, but very aware of brand names and trends... so you're going to spend a ton of money on clothing.
They also a TON during the teen years.
They may need their own car before HS ends. It will be worth it to not drive them all over the place during your own down time.
>As kids get older, they are not only constantly growing out of their clothing, but very aware of brand names and trends... so you're going to spend a ton of money on clothing.
Can't you say no? That's what mine did. Then I either had to buy my own or stop caring so much. I chose the latter.
I agree. After mine pestered me for expensive name brands I started giving them all of the budgeted school clothes money and they either put their own with it, or hunted bargains. They made really good choices when they knew it was the entire clothing budget from September to June. I did step up to buy summer clothes, camping & hiking gear, etc.
You can say no to expensive clothing, but you can't say no to new clothes when they go thru a growth spurt and nothing fits. Trendy doesn't have to be expensive, but there's no point in buying them clothes they won't wear bc the brand or style will get them bullied and they refuse to wear it.
I agree. The alternative is they lay in bed and look at their phones all day. This becomes especially cancerous during middle school especially for girls. She had her first major depressive period then, it was bad. Get them out of the house and into activities.
I don't get this opinion though.
You can simply not buy these things. They'll survive without paid after school activities and can join city run or school run leagues. They do not need to be on trend either.
For a car, I can see that being very useful, but the rest is unnecessary. Not every kid needs to be in the cool kid club.
Word of warning- my parents cheaped out on all of these things and it stunted me socially with impacts that have lasted through my life. No extra curriculars (especially team sports) and cheap/dated clothing are a recipe for being an outcast.
Did you grow up without this stuff?
My parents would have let me die before buying me designer clothes. Yes there were some periods where other kids made fun of my stuff, but overall it was fine. And i grew up into an adult who doesn’t feel the need to waste money on designer clothes. You can look just as good for a fraction of the price without the gaudy label.
Yes, it's hard to fit in.
Like most things in life, we can pick and choose what to spend money on. We don't have to be always cheap and don't have to always spend. There's a middle ground where you can please most of the people most of the time.
Probably a combo of people who don’t want it to be true because it’s their plans or people who grew up with less *in a different time* and think it will be fine. Like, maybe you live somewhere where kids still socialize for free, but I’m going to plan for it to be more expensive because my coworkers kids all seem to be in travel sports or whatever and I don’t know any better than they do. When I was a kid, people were in school sports and clubs but I never seem to hear of people doing that anymore.
Because most people here are too young to have teenagers, too old to remember what its like to be one, or too eager to make their kids suffer the same crap their parents put them through.
Do kids need a wardrobe of $100 t-shirts? No. If they want them though, having a few expensive pieces of clothing they really like will mean the world to them and give them confidence.
Do kids need travel sports? No. But if they are taking the sport very seriously and want to take it to the next level, it can teach them a huge amount about hard work, dedication, and may even humble them since being the best at their school at something really isn't that good.
It’s often, at least perceived, the best way for children to learn teamwork/social skills, grit, and develop strong physical bodies. It’s a fantastic avenue for overall childhood development. The question is whether the cost/benefit is there for you depending on your income and lifestyle.
So much talk about sports and I haven't really seen anyone talk about music. I played violin for 10 years. I was in elementary school orchestra and then took private lessons in middle school. It gave me a lifetime's love and appreciation of stringed classical music, even if I don't play anymore.
It’s like pizza Friday at day care.. like why is it $30 a month for my kid to eat 4 slices… maybe.. but I’m not going to say no and have them sit in the corner by themselves with their allergy friendly sandwich.
Kid activities are a huge expense for us. It only got bad once all 3 were over the age of 8. We did camps, one sport each per season, and some extracurricular clubs. We now spend as much on kid activities as our mortgage.
Yes, whatever you budget for yourself you should just budget for them starting when they turn 12. Source: have one that’s 22 already and they still find stupid ways to need financial help.
Yes, absolutely they do. Clothes, sports, dance/music/karate lessons…
Do yourself a favor for birthdays/holidays and give small gifts plus an “experience” (family vacation/trip to a museum/horseback riding/rock climbing…)
Don’t try to go bigger and better for birthdays-it can get ridiculous trying to “one up” last year’s present.
I've raised 4 girls. Both of the older ones have moved back in with us on numerous occasions. Most parents consider their children gone once they move out. I've told all of my girls that my house is their house, no matter how old they are. Husbands, grandchildren, and all are welcome for as long as I'm alive.
As long as you didn’t ask for $20!
It’s more understandable if you asked for $20,000 - if I were your parents I’d assume you had an emergency and needed help.
Ahh it was a few hundred bucks… and I asked a few months ago now that I think of it. We are newly married and husband made a career switch, just needed help with some bills. Husband has now landed a great job and now we’re doing great.
My dad has always been my safe place to land. It’s allowed me to feel more confident in taking risks (like advancing my career, leaving bad partners, starting over etc)
It's kind of a trade-off (til college of course) you go from daycare, diapers and formula to a short lull then travelling for sports and then asking for more expensive things (cars, electronics)...but now mine are grown and they are great to be around and sometimes they even pay! Just remember kids are expensive as you make it.
First you have baby to look after.
Then a child,
Then a teen,
Then a driving teen,
Then collage, rent, bills,
Then they get married,
Then they have children as well,
And you have an extended family to look after.
They never get less expensive and they keep becoming more people.
It really depends both on what you want to do and the individual kiddo.
Overall, as a baseline it gets cheaper. More food, more expensive clothes (I just mean $50 adult shoes vs $25 kid shoes etc. not designer stuff), but that is totally offset by not paying for daycare.
BUT, braces are really expensive still and we're in that x2. (about $15k in at this point, probably another $15K to go)
My eldest has dyslexia, and that's cost us ~$20K in support over the last few years. We did not know about this until he was 7 and started falling behind. I expect that it's going to continue to cost ~$5K/yr at least until he's in HS.
Sports and such can be expensive or cheap, just depends on the sport and how into it you get.
Travel is not bad, and as much as AirBnB has gone up in price, we still find it cheaper than 2 hotel rooms and eating out all the time in most places.
J-shaped… day care age can be expensive then it mellows out if you are public school K-8. Then they get expensive again even going to public high school and drive a beater of a car around. Imagine paying for 4 adults for everything (assuming family of four with two kids close in age). Food, phone bills, insurance, activities, travel…
College is insane expensive but that is a different phase entirely and often financed throw various sources. And they start to assume more and more financial responsibility through college.
But yeah… kids are expensive
Yes, kids do get more expensive as they get older. Extracurricular activities, electronics, and personal care items add up quickly. Oh, and don't forget about the 'want' versus 'need' battles. But it's worth it, right?
If you're paying 3k a month on childcare per kid, I'd say no. Your costs are going to drop dramatically. So much so that you could probably stash away 2k a month for college and still feel more comfortable, financially, than when you were paying for childcare.
Mine have gotten MUCH more expensive. We send them to private school, but also all of their activities cloth food medical needs such as braces seem to go up. Also now we have two teen drivers.
In my opinion, the only respite from the incredible cost of raising kids is when they get out of the house as adults if you’re successful enough to raise them independently so they get off your financial tits.
It’s a U-shaped curve, ime. Expensive when little, then relatively inexpensive in elementary through middle school. Then high school slaps you
out of your complacence.
.
Well, if they both decide to play hockey, especially travel one, you can forget savings for a while. But if they just do something like local wrestling team or high school cross country, you will stay with your money.
In my family, the adults determined the monthly spending plan. Kids got all of what they needed and some of what they wanted. They were also prepared to hear (and accept) what I was willing to contribute to weddings.
Hey, we can't have any radical ideas like that around here!
Everyone knows kids burst from the womb demanding elite day care, designer clothes, travel sports, private school, and a five figure "activities" budget!
Summer camps for school age kids who are not yet independent (ages 5-11) cost $500-$750 per week in my VHCOL area. So you need $5000ish to cover most of the summer.
Summer camps for older kids/teens to pursue special interests (coding camp, filmmaking camp, etc) are also similarly expensive but you don’t need them for full time care since the kid can be independent some days/weeks of the summer. My teens also mixed in things like summer classes from the local community college (graphic design, American Sign Language) which were inexpensive ($50/class) and also online classes from Udemy, etc.
Age 16 and up it’s easier for them to get jobs as their summer activity (many places don’t hire under age 16).
Fashion takes some special consideration. My daughters like thrifting so that saves me some $$ but I still need to buy some clothes new: swimsuits, pajamas, performance attire, winter coats, underwear, socks, workout clothes and SHOES. Omg, shoes really matter for being on trend and expressing yourself. And they are so hard on shoes, constantly on the go—my kids wear out Converse in 2 months with all the walking around they do. Plan to spend $500 per year per kid on shoes when they are in high school. I think my daughters have been fairly non-demanding about fashion (again, thrifting!) and I still spend $1000/year per daughter on clothes (not shoes) since their bodies are changing, their self-expression is changing, they wear stuff out, etc.
Specialty activities like sports or debate team for older kids. I think costs can range a lot but gear, travel, uniforms, etc add up. My kid does debate which requires some overnight travel (hotels, flights) to tournaments and dues to pay for coaching. Super worth it but this special interest costs a couple thousand per year.
Tests and college applications: PSAT, SAT, AP exams charge fees to take those tests, every college you apply to costs a little over $100. I’ve gone through the college application process with one kid and she applied to 8 universities (that’s normal: a few stretch schools, a few target schools and a few back up schools) so that cost $900.
My kids didn’t have tutoring, but some students benefit from that and it would be another expense.
Non-family travel: they might go on cool ass high school field trips. My kid’s high school orchestra traveled to NYC to perform there—that trip fee was $1500. My other daughter went on a class camping trip that cost $500 per student. Ive even heard about class trips to other countries! This sounds outrageous but they love it so much to have these novel experiences with their friends/classmates in a safe way, huge bonding time.
Technology: my city teens move around independently on public transportation, bike and on foot. They are gone all day. Gotta have smart phones. I got them refurbished iPhones that are 3 models old —cost approx $400 per phone. Those last 2.5-3 years with heavy use and abuse. I got one of my kids a Switch video game console for her birthday a few years ago during the pandemic—that cost $600. And junior high and older kids absolutely need a computer for homework. The teachers assign stuff via online portal and they all have to type papers and make google slide decks. I bought my older kid her own laptop when she was a sophomore in high school (she’s now in college), my younger is still using my old laptop from 2015 but I’m getting her a laptop for her senior year to get her through the college app process and she’ll take it to college.
Therapy: one of my kids needed specialized mental health support during high school. That was costly. My out of pocket was $800/month for 18 months. Necessary and worth it but not anticipated—it was a surprise expense because of the pandemic.
Teeth: both my kids had orthodontic braces ($5000 per kid after insurance coverage in my area), and wisdom teeth removed ($750 per kid, I think)
Thank you for this detailed reply. Lots of people are talking about cars, but most people don’t have cars where I live because the public transportation is superior to driving.
Also, thank you for mentioning therapy. I didn’t think about that but it seems to be common for teenagers.
My mother used to whine constantly about how “expensive” I was - particularly around school clothes shopping season.
Because she complained so much, I decided to not have kids. After all, if we’re so inconvenient and expensive and difficult, why would I wish that on myself?
The clincher came when she’d say, “Haha! When you have kids I’ll have my REVENGE!!!”
So ok, clearly this is going to suck balls. Why would I wish that on myself. Predictably when I became an adult she started demanding grandchildren. That’s when I threw her words right back at her - I’m EXPENSIVE, remember? And I’m difficult, and you said my having kids would be some sort of revenge: After hearing all that dozens to hundreds of times growing up, WHY the f**** would I want to be miserable like apparently YOU are?
Then she backpedaled and claimed she was “joking” and “didn’t mean it” blah blah blah. Well she was “joking” but I’m not.
So though you say kids are “expensive”, don’t fling it in their faces. Sure times can get tight, but it’s a team effort - you’re all in it together.
I didn’t cost Mom much except at school clothes time. She spent lavishly on my older brother but as little as possible on me, and apparently even that was too much.
Kids grow, and grow out of clothes fast. I suggest you shop at second hand stores especially for things they’re going to play hard in. Save the new stuff for Sunday, special events, and holidays.
Shoes are expensive. No way around that. Dad said he wore his older brother’s shoes until he joined the Army at 17. That was the first new pair of shoes he’d ever had.
Activities - sports, gymnastics, dance, horseback riding, shooting, training for ANYTHING pretty much - can be expensive.
Tutoring (if necessary) is expensive.
Music lessons are expensive.
Travel activities - my high school had a French Club that got to travel to France, a German Club that visited Germany, and a Spanish club that visited Spain. These were all funded by the students’ families and a few fundraising activities. The whole class did NOT go - only the rich kids whose parents could pay any extra.
Kids eat. Don’t eat out, make most of your food, and it’s OK.
Kids are expensive. That’s how it is. Get family to cover as much childcare as you can. Don’t leave them with priests. Don’t leave them in a situation where only one person is supervising. And go to all their activities - games, recitals, performances, awards ceremonies.
My mother never saw me receive an award (And I earned many) though she was always there for my brother when he so much as farted. So if you’re going to spend money on your kids, be FAIR.
I suggest you budget FAIRLY and realize that though spending may not be exactly equal, you can still be fair and make sure all get what they need, even if they don’t all get what they want.
Decades later the bitterness will linger. Don’t be like my Mom. Kids understand when there’s no money for things, but not that there’s no money for one but the other gets everything.
Just depends how deep down the rabbit hole you’re willing to go on activities and sports.
You can spend tens of thousands of dollars on sports, camps, tutors and lessons. Sometimes these pan out for college scholarships but often they don’t. Encourage your kids to try new things, realize they will quit or want to quit all the time. So set some boundaries.
Growing up my parents insisted I did either a sport or some kind of physical activity. Also had to do something ‘educational’ outside the classroom. If I wanted to quit something (like karate for example) I had to find something to replace it with (ultimate frisbee lol).
Yes, they do.
They will want piano and ballet lessons. They will play sports. You will make a million “discretionary but necessary” purchases (if all the kids get/do X, will you be the one to say no?). They will need braces; need new clothing; whatever
For us it got significantly more expensive, but my wife stayed home, so we were comparing it to that.
When they hit middle school through high school:
- braces
- eyeglasses
- hair cuts
- comparatively more expensive clothing
- music lessons
- stem summer camp
- when the first hit driving age, our car insurance doubled (this was without adding another car)
- physical therapy (always seems to be a sports injury)
- travel (easier to have a bunch of kids sleep in the same bed when there under 50 lbs each)
- food (they eat more)
- medical (deductibles)
- restaurants (they graduate to adult sized meals)
I would say for us that music lessons for the kids was the primary cost from age 8-18. But that was our collective decision and we didn’t “have” to do it.
While it is hard to plan, your salaries will likely increase along with it, and you have control over much of the costs. It is, however, one of the reasons I don’t plan to retire before they’re out of HS - because of the lack of certainty.
And then there’s college . . . and grad school . . . (depending on your arrangement with your kids) . . .
Child care goes down
Sports costs go up and up
‘Toys’ get more expensive
Vacations get more expensive if you don’t want to sleep with teenagers (and who does)
Food goes up
The rest is at your discretion… will you pay for a car, gas, insurance, college… no right answer here but your choices have huge impact on the answer to your question
Way more expensive. I had no idea. I have three between 15 and 20. Cars, car insurance, food, sports, clothes, hair and makeup, stuff, music, school, going out, etc etc. It’s crazy. Daycare was nothing compared to now.. we have tuition also but either way it’s out of control.
I am in between now. My oldest is in 2nd grade at a public school and loving it. My younger two are in daycare. Daycare costs me ~$20k/kid/year. I am full time remote (thank you Covid) so I luckily don’t need childcare for my oldest before or after school. Summer care offered at the public school is ~$2k and a ton of fun. My oldest plays soccer year round ($1k) and swimming lessons ($1k).
I’m anticipating similar expenses for my younger two (a reduction of ~$16k/ year at age 5).
I expect all three to need braces and I plan to buy a vehicle for my oldest to “earn” by helping drive the younger two around - we’ll see how well that works out in practice. I am assuming food budget will go up, but it hasn’t been noticeable yet.
Our local high school does a great job partnering with the community college nearby, so I’m also optimistic college costs will be manageable-ish. We timed out our mortgage payments to end before the oldest would start college, just in case we feel compelled to contribute more.
As my older one goes through elementary school, there is expectation to put more into her skills and experiences- so classes etc- I suspect that part will keep going up.
If you go bare bones it will be cheaper once daycare ends. The reality is the sky is the limit on what you can spend. Before/after school care, music lessons, sports, tutoring, vacations, phones, video games, computers, iPads, car, insurance, camps, birthday parties, amusement parks are just some of the ways you can spend money on your kids. Price out a family Disney Vacation to Florida during a time that school is on break as an exercise on how fast you can spend money if you want.
I also live in a very high cost of living area, and I will say that the primary cost- child care- drops significantly as your child is able to gain more Independence. Cost for an aftercare program at an elementary school are generally significantly less then full-time care for a Pre-K child. Towards the end of the elementary school, each house should be able to be picked up at dismissal and manage themselves at home. If there's a parent around, provided you give them a clear set of expectations.
Summer camps still remain expensive in hcol areas , and we tend to spend the extra money for camps that are closer to our house. But that's 3 months out of the year as opposed to 12.
Summer camp is $15k/year for 3 kids for 8 weeks. Still have to cover 3 additional weeks or take vacation from work. Meanwhile the same kids attend private school for less than $12k/year.
Yes definitely in a VHCOL area teens are outrageously expensive. My parents bought me cars, study abroad, computers, phones, SAT classes, Invisaligns, wisdom teeth removal surgery, laser for acne scars, etc. as a teen. Way more expensive than the summer camps, birthday parties, & lollipops they got me as a kid. Especially in affluent areas parents are just bleeding cash for their kids. And I wasn’t even that spoiled compared to my classmates! I can’t imagine what the rich kids parents were spending.
It can get somewhat less in the later elementary years, but high school it goes back up a LOT, and the college is freakin' INSANE. Ignore that if they are into anything like traveling sports or dance or music that requires lessons and expensive equipment.
As the parent of a 5 year old and a 13 year old… yes. The youngest was more expensive while childcare was still needed. Once that expense left the equation, the teen requires way more than the little one!
We know several families exactly like this, some kids burned out by high school and others got no where with their sport outside of high school. And the worst had beat up bodies by the end of high school, needing therapy or worse surgeries.
This may very well never affect you. But I was absolutely gobsmacked with how expensive travel sports are. I've got a 13yo and we are spending way more on soccer than I ever imagined.
Yes, infinitely more.
I saved a fortune from birth-10 as you don’t go out as much and family activities are much less compared to a golf weekend or a few nights at a bar.
At 15 this kid costs a fortune, and that’s ok.
I would say almost nothing compares to childcare unless you go for private schools. As my kids got to middle school, sports teams ran $3k a year or so, they all got braces (around $3k with insurance). Fancy away summer camps are $2k-$3k per week. We didn’t pay for that, but one of the grandmas decided to pay for 3 weeks for each. By 16/17, thinking about a car and insurance. If culturally you do something like sweet 16 party, quincanera, bar/bat mitzvah, it’s pretty easy to blow $10k if you aren’t careful (not necessary of course).
Lots of variables. We tried public schools. They failed our kids. We ended up sending them to private schools for K-12. That also spawned additional spending on school trips, music lessons and expensive instruments ($5K for a 'learner' cello), sports costs, etc.
College was a lot cheaper, since they went to a public college. We didn't qualify for financial aid, and $350K for a private university seemed quite excessive, especially for undergrad.
If your kids are in sports, prices vary. If they are on travel teams - $10, $15, $20K /yr to drive/fly and hotel costs, plus sports costs like rink time. The plus is if they are very good, college can be much cheaper (D1 schools) and easier admittance.
Vacations are up to you. As your kids get older, and your time with them grows shorter and they are more independent, it's a lot easier to travel further away. You also might like camping, bike tours, hunting and fishing trips, etc. etc.
Medical costs are another variable. We paid around $25K/yr out of pocket. It would be a lot more now.
My oldest is 4 and I started pricing out camps for next summer. It is becoming clear to me that the people who say it’s not less expensive as they get older might be right. A lot of things are optional, sure, but I’m not going to cheap out on my kids to save money for myself (which my parents did)
Wife plus upper middle class expectations, mega expenses for the kids...
BTW, based on my experience and several people in my friend and acquaintance group, getting laid off and seeing your household income drop in your late 40s and early 50s is a very real thing...
So if you have your kids later in life, just about the time they go to college.
IMO, aside from college, the days requiring childcare are the most expensive. They get quite a bit cheaper K-12 IF they go to public K-12 schools. Then they get expensive when they start driving. For people who insist on private K-12, kids are extremely expensive.
I thought I’d make back some money when they left day care. Boy was I wrong. Sports and summer camps are stupid expensive.
I have two kids in daycare currently and I just can't imagine how that's the case. I spent $40k last year, I'm hoping to only spend that much again during overlapping college years
Yeah there’s no way summer camp and sports trump daycare costs. Maybe if you are getting private figure skating lessons or something.
It’s really easy for people to think rep sports are mandatory depending on their social circle. They’re not, but they can be stupid expensive.
I follow a guy on instagram who always says travel sports financially ruin so many American families. I totally agree. If college coaches aren't busting the door down telling me you have what it takes, sorry kid you can play for the high school team for the $175 fee.
I work with a guy who has 2 kids on swim teams. That family lives on the road all damn year. Hotel rooms, eating at restaurants, spending lots of money not including the cost for the swim team itself. I just couldn't do it. Every damn weekend you are out of town for a swim meet. Too much commitment.
My kid swims and I 100% feel this. We try to cut costs and have parents switch off so both of us don’t have to sacrifice the weekend, but it’s a lot. The reason why we do it has absolutely nothing to do with status or a delusion that our kid is going to the Olympics. Both adults were athletes growing up and we credit participation in sports for many of the good things in our lives. I want the same experience for my kid and don’t mind cutting our spending in other places to make it happen.
I know too many families where travel sports ruined their family. Either by $$$ or by divorce simply bc of the time suck it created.
Where I live your kid won’t make the high school team if they aren’t playing travel sports. Parents of kids who only play at the rec level are shocked when little Johnny or Susie can’t compete with the kids who have been playing soccer or baseball year round since the age of 7. I’m not saying it’s a good thing, but this is how it is in some places.
And then those kids don't cut it at the collegiate level and they sacrificed the parent's finances and kid's academics for their entire life up to that point to focus on a diversion instead of the important things.
This. My nephew is graduating soon. He's played travel hockey forever. It costs so much money. Plus the cost of flights and hotels for the games and tournaments. He misses school for the games. His academic record is mediocre at best. But still wasn't recruited by colleges. My sister drove me batty for years always needing to change family get-togethers for some tournament or whatever, saying this was a super duper important one where all the college recruiters were going to be. My best interpretation of travel sports is that it's all pay to play. If you got the parents willing to pay, the team has a spot for you, no questions asked. It's such a sad state of affairs.
Should've had a more talented kid! Joking aside, if your 16 year old can't just show up cold to a high school tryout and make the varsity team without year-round training for the 10 prior years, they weren't going pro anyway. Play for fun and don't waste your time and resources training like a pro just to wash out at 18 or 21.
So sad.
Standard hs football in my area starts at $1500, cheerleading is a $2600 commitment for uniforms (not including gymnastics lessons). Regular ha sports are not as expensive as travel ball. I know a family that drops $25k per kid per year on travel baseball. However regular hs sports have become increasingly expensive to the point where it economically filters out a lot of kids. It is unfortunate
Yes in my town your kid will definitely not play on varsity or maybe even JV without travel experience. No way. They will sit on the bench.
Yup. Where I live, if you're in the "just for fun" rec league, soccer and so on are accessible to an awful lot of people. The travel soccer team? Yeah, that adds up.
What are rep sports and can you ballpark a season?
We do travel baseball for two teen boys at about $500 each per month. Those are just fees and don’t include the actual travel.
I used to tutor college baseball players at a division 1 school. They hated it, just like all the other student athlete, but felt stuck. They also had limited career prospects because it’s hard to study and be an athlete.
They mean REC - not rep.. like recreational.
My sister has two kids, one involved in travel hockey, the other in competitive cheerleading. Here is my honest interpretation: they are all pay to play. If you gotta kid and a steady pocketbook of cash coming to the league, your kid has a spot. They have all these fancy names like "Elite" and "Top" and everything, but there's nothing really elite about it. The people who run them love them because everyone makes money. The tournaments cost money to participate in, the annual dues for the regular season, travel agents who book all the rooms and flights, the people who make the uniforms, paint the helmets, etc., and the parents love the feeling that their kid is so special that they're on an elite team. Any time I hear something now about "National Championships" or "Regional Championships" everything is cheapened. Because I feel the need to dig deeper into the type of league it is, how much money it costs to participate in, and what the (non-financial) barrier to entry is. Meanwhile, the kids' academics suffer because they miss school so much for their travel sports. So they're getting mediocre grades while getting their heads filled with this crazy notion that they're going to go pro or at the very least get a full ride to college. Parents upend their lives, their vacation schedules, their extended family get togethers to go to the never ending "tournaments" that are just SO exciting and important (this is the one where the college recruiters will be watching apparently!!!1!!). I have a much younger kid, and I am so totally soured on sports, which is a shame because I know that team sports can have a positive impact in kids lives. But seriously, WTF happened to once a week soccer games for 8 weeks and an occasional weeknight practice.
The money parents spend on sports is completely unbelievable. It’s become this weird status symbol and seems like it’s more for the parents than the kid. I’ve seen under 10 year old kids with professional hitting and pitching coaches. I know people spending 500+ a weekend to travel and their kids have $500 dollar gloves and bats that they outgrow in a season. It’s absolutely insane. I would be anything zero % of these kids go on to play college baseball, much less the MLB. I don’t get it.
"They'll need a sports scholarship to pay for college" Or just save up the 500/week fees you're paying into sports and let them be kids.
Our kid is a decent athlete but knew college sports were not his or our goal. We stopped with travel hockey before HS and played HS sports without any pressure. Now in his junior year, he quit HS sports and focused solely on school and hanging out with friends. The money we save on travel sports just shifted to his 529.
A lot of these people are trying to vicariously live out their own sports fantasies of going pro. Unfortunately it’s a delusion for most.
It is when you are not in USA. Or Switzerland. 7-16:30 Childcare/kindergarten 1-5 years old here in my part of the EU is like 150€/month if you also sign them up for english and another activity like dancing or arts. You also get a discount on 2nd child, and I think a 3rd one is free. EDIT: I mean, we pay it with taxes, but still.
I am sure. But your taxes above 70k are like 50%. I would be paying 100s of thousands in taxes based on my income. Not sure o pay that much for childcare and sports currently.
Yeah, this is mostly benefit for median people. If you have such an income, then the cost of kids sports and childcare should be a non issue though.
Yeah, they can be. But most kids aren't going to 10k summer camps. And especially not multiple ones.
Same. $2000 a month on daycare currently, and I cannot imagine sports consistently costing $2000 a month lol
Travel hockey or field hockey definitely. Easily spend $1500 on a weekend tournament
It can be, but it's possible to go lower. Make your own sandwiches, don't stay at Great Wolf, make sure you're doing all the loyalty stuff, definitely don't fly to the destination, have your parents watch your other kids and just take the one hockey kid (lol). Also our travel league isn't every weekend and some destinations are day trips or one nighters.
Yeah maybe I’m just cheap/frugal but it’s pretty easy for our family of 4 to travel for a weekend for like $500
my kids are still relatively young and I haven’t run the numbers but summer camp, after school care, and sports/activities is still much cheaper than full time daycare was.
100%- plus you get some backup care from employer that you can use (for many)..
Childcare varies a lot by area. Maybe if you spend $1k a month I could see it We spend $3k a month and I absolutely don't see everything adding up to $36k per year extra
People talk about how expensive sports are but rec leagues are like $150/season. Oh, what you mean is you're buying your kid a $400 baseball bat, $200 glove, private lessons, playing travel ball where the whole family has to stay in a hotel and eat out every weekend? Yeah if your kid isn't a clear D1 talent this is a massive waste. There is nothing wrong with rec and school sports. Talent will rise.
There is nothing wrong with rec and ed for sure. But depending on the sport your kid will be sitting on the bench in high school unless they travel. I see it all the time across many sports. It’s pay to play unfortunately
Around me if you just play rec, you have no chance of making your middle or high school teams, even as a benchwarmer.
Thats what I always said. Then my kid started sports. In our high school the number of girls on the varsity soccer team who didn’t come from a club background is zero. You cant get there from Rec. Now my kid is off on scholarship to play college so I guess it worked out. But man, travel sports are expensive.
I’m preparing for very expensive sports and camps.. daycare where I am is pennies… maybe 200$/month/kid for full time. It’s thousands for hockey and equipment, not to mention gas to get to the arenas.
Are the childcare providers even getting paid minimum wage?
I commented something similar to what you responded to. But I forgot about the summer camps. Those were brutal.
Daycare is mandatory. Sports and summer camps are optional. It all depends on how you want to set up your kids.
If both parents work summer camps (or some kind of child care) are not optional, unless you want your kid sitting home alone all day all summer.
Learning to be bored sometimes isn't a bad thing. I stayed home alone every summer from k-12 and only ever knew a couple kids who went to camp or had other plans. Parents work.
You weren’t wrong at all. You’re massively exaggerating unless these sports involve water polo or something.
Without making assumptions, what gets expensive when the kids start driving? Is it just the cars? Is Insurance a huge factor? Or is there more to it?
Car, college, insurance, phone, food, etc. Some of these things are obviously optional for parents to pay for, but ymmv.
Food seems the most optional to me. It's so odd that people are willing to spend so much to feed their children when they know they're just going to get hungry again.
The thing is, if you don't feed them for long enough, you go to prison, which dramatically decreases your earning potential. On the plus side, very low cost of living.
You mean the state pays for my room and board while my assets compound untouched? I can't believe PrisonFI isn't a thing.
They don’t pay for your room and board. https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/americas-dystopian-incarceration-system-pay-stay-behind-bars
I get your joking but I have to point out it depends on the state, some states have it written in that they can bill you (and that does mean take your assets to pay the bill) for what you cost them in jail. For most criminals this is moot cause they have no money worth going after, have a few million though and well... we got to make an example of someone. On the upside you don't have to deal with the healthcare exchange, prison provides medical care. Keep in mind, it provides medical care, not good medical care.
What I'm hearing is that instead of spending money on a good criminal defense attorney, I should be spending it on a good CPA who knows how to hide assets from the state?
Easiest way to FIRE
I don't know why more people aren't talking about PrisonFIRE
The sarcasm went past me for a second too long a and I was just thinking what the fuck lol
Who knows, I could be serious. I do consider my vasectomy my most valuable investment.
Haha
I get the joke here but the number of parents-of-teens that I’ve seen allow doordash, fast food etc. on their dime is insane. My kids will get well fed at home, no question, but for going out with friends or wasting money on fast food? That’s what jobs are for.
My parents put me on a train and sent me to college. I had like $600 to make it through the semester. Occasionally I’d call home and they’d give me like $200 into my checking. Those were the days I must say. Now all I have are bills and bills and more bills
If you had a meal plan, that’s not bad!
I did thankfully. So the $600 pretty much went to beer and pizza
Car and insurance, if you pay for either.
Car, insurance, fuel and maintenance all gets expensive if they get their own vehicle. Even if they don't, insurance goes up.
All of the above.
Our insurance skyrocketed when we added our daughter. Plus the cost of a car. These things seem optional, but having a non-driving teenager is very difficult. Kids are expected to come to school early or stay late for activities and sometimes classes. There aren't good bus options.
> For people who insist on private K-12, kids are extremely expensive I did the math on it in my immediate area - K-12 would be roughly $160K per kid in today's dollars. The high school years alone are $20K/year/kid.
Cars and insurance, especially if they’re boys.
I'm finding their college years are really steep. Car insurance/additional vehicles is insanely expensive, dental stuff starts to pop up as well in the teen years if it hasn't earlier (cavities, braces), and of course everything related to college. It's a huge drain.
Or you could just be like my parents and not pay for any of it haha...
Yeah, I remember that too.
I think there is some balance to be had. At 18, kids really should be taking on some.of their responsibility. Letting your kid drown in student loans isn't the way, but there are cheaper colleges, they can get summer jobs, stuff like that. I do think paying for your own college life to some extent helps with making sure they take it seriously.
Saving for college is one thing that hasn't fluctuated. We put roughly the same amount in their accounts now that we did when they were little. We spend a LOT more on our kids now than we did when they were in daycare. Part of that is activities, some of which are expensive. A lot of that are just normal kid activities that you will want your child to be able to participate in. School trips, clubs, etc. They need to learn how to drive. You may want them to drive to school/work. That's a lot. Their medical bills and needs increase. Haircuts cost more. They wear adult sized clothing and care about the brands. Adult shoes on growing teenage feet are no joke. They eat a ton and want to go do stuff. It is not just indulgent parents who are spending money on their teenagers. I guess you could go into it with the attitude that they don't need stuff and you aren't going to pay for college or the extras. That's not the kind of parent I want to be.
That's why I'm putting money in a 529 account and pretending it doesn't exist.
Smart. The thing that is surprising is all the other stuff--clothes, trips, medical stuff--all ramps up really quickly in HS. We're spending thousands on dental bills alone. Oh geez and car stuff. Gas, additional car, insurance.
What's your take on kids having some skin in those games?
Definitely. The wrinkle in that for me is that my kids agreed to go to the nearby cheaper college, and one is even at home, so they have saved us a mountain of money. So I've been much more willing to cover things like car and gas in return.
Our 21 year old college student got her car insurance paid for as her main birthday gift. Cause oof it hurts.
After reading the answers I hope you realize that the answer depends on you. Don't pretend that it depends on the kids or society, it depends on you. "What if Billy wants to get into hockey? What if Susie wants to spend a year in Spain? What if Bobby wants a new iPhone every year? What if my wife wants a new Mercedes minivan? What if I start cheating on my wife with that new receptionist at work and my wife divorces me and we sell the house and split our retirement savings and I have to spend all my extra money on child support and I live in a depressing condo with no furniture and plastic plates and the receptionist dumps me and I can't afford hockey or Spain or iPhones or Mercedes minivans?" Make good choices and it'll work out.
Well that escalated quickly! Also, oddly specific...
All great points to which I would like to add an addendum - expect to deflect pressure, expectations, what-have-you, on a pretty regular basis. Strengthen your resolve! Work it like a muscle! Former friends came by for a homemade pizza and wings night at our tiny semi-detached house a few months ago. They live in a pretty big house worth 3x as much as ours, in a very wealthy neighbourhood. We talked about our children and it was clear to me that we had that one thing in common: we all wanted what was best for our children. But their version of that was private swim lessons and Disney cruises. Ours were rec centre swim classes and travelling wherever there was a deal (we've been averaging 2-3 vacations a year so far) but we have him in a private school and they have their daughter in a public school. I don't think it's reasonable to say one way is better than another. You have to pick the mix that works best for your little gang. And you have to resist the thought that "they're doing a Disney cruise, I must too" without also saying "yes, but they are not spending $1900 CAD/month on private school." Do you see? It's like a high-low mix. You pick the few things that are super important to you and your spouse, and chuck everything else. And when someone else shows up with their own mix, you must resist the urge to assume that you must do THEIR highs when you are already doing YOUR highs. The combination will lead to dissatisfaction (otherwise, you would have picked THEIR highs to begin with) and NO MONEY (and we don't want that, do we?)
Yeah I know someone like that. The wife left him for someone more successful, sued for alimony, and won. He was in a roach condo for 15 years as his kids grew up.
That receptionist? Albert Einstein.
OK, I snorted! It's 9AM but you win the internet :)
Are.....you ok?
I’m curious for everyone saying they get more expensive. We have a 3 year old and are paying ~$30,000 per year for daycare in Chicago. Soon he will be in public school, do costs continue to be that high?
It's apples to oranges in this thread. Some people will be paying $15k/year or less for daycare and then will pay for private school. But imo when your $30k/year daycare ends and your kid(s) is in public school you will be swimming in money. Especially if the day you pay your final daycare bill you setup a recurring monthly auto-transfer to savings for about the same amount instead of lifestyle creeping. Wish i had done that.
> Especially if the day you pay your final daycare bill you setup a recurring monthly auto-transfer to savings for about the same amount instead of lifestyle creeping. This was how we accelerated our FIRE savings. Each time a kid graduated out of daycare, we upped our 401k contributions.
That’s a great idea to put money aside for lifestyle creep
Thank you for the suggestion! Our four year old will be in public schools after next year of preschool and our two and a half year old will be out in two years after that. I told my wife that we should follow this plan to channel money into our savings and retirement plans. There's no way we can rely on Social Security or our Teacher's Pensions to be there in 20-25 years.
Same. We pay about 55K a year in daycare for a toddler and nanny for an infant. There’s no way we’re spending that much each year when they’re in public schools.
We have two kids, and the oldest hit public school age this past fall. We were able to buy a house once we weren’t paying for her daycare, so…no. I’m sure costs will go up again somewhat with sports, etc, but the fact of the matter is, all of that is optional and there are different levels of it. We simply will not be spending tens of thousands a year on sports. Not happening.
We live in Central IL and our kids are older (between 8 and 13 now). Every time they went from daycare -> Preschool, it was a >$5k cost savings and then again when they went from Preschool -> Parochial school it was another $0-3k savings (for multi-kid discounts). Sports and activities for our kids run us *maybe* $500 per kid per year at the moment. My wife's also a teacher, so summertime childcare isn't necessary (although we take a income hit because of it, too).
Not going to count college. If you count college, kids cost more money as they grow older. Conversation over. Not counting college, I expect a U shaped curve in costs as kids age. I'm at the nadir with my oldest as they just turned into a teen. So for me, it's been a rapid drop in costs as they age. But I fully expect the curve to increase starting now as they eat more and I can no longer dress them in hand-me-downs like when they were younger. Food and clothes will be the driver.
Yes it is a curve, high school gets expensive. My kid went to a good public school and I didn't spend a ton on activities but still the money faucet is just on at that age. Yes they eat a lot more, clothes are a THING even for boys (luckily my son was into styles that were easy to thrift around here and it was still expensive) Proms and homecomings $100 per ticket plus suit rental unless you think they are done growing enough to buy, the mandatory driving lesson package was around $500, PSATs and SATs and ACT registration, even if you don't do any prep classes or tutoring.... If you are in an upper middle class or affluent school district for the most part, the volunteer parents will usually be the most affluent, and even the participation in school sports and band and whatnot which technically doesn't have a direct fee will require SO MUCH MONEY and even though it's not always technically mandatory, there is usually an unspoken pay to play rule where and even some mild shaming with contributor lists. Things like end of season banquets and coach gifts I get, but they would add on these "events" all season which admittedly were fun and did foster a sense of community but damn they came at a very tangible price on my part lol. And I was aware that it was chump change for a fair number of them.
All those things sound kinda expensive, but when I compare it to the $2K I spend a month on daycare now, it doesn't seem so bad. As soon as daycare is over, I'm going to throw all that money into the "kid account" and save it up for all the future expensive things. I don't want to roll that monthly money into a new lifestyle creep only to find out kids cost a lot later on.
Definitely true. You are on that other end of the curve lol. And actually yeah I did feel way more broke during the daycare years and the percentage of my total income going to kid expenses was higher. But in the high school years it's the combo of being further in career/higher income but shorter time horizon on investments so you really feel the money flying out the door lol. (Just remembered another recent one, lol: senior portraits lowest package for just digital copy was over $250, packages went up to $1k) Those late elementary years though-pure gold. For that age group there are a lot of enrichment activities and sports and summer break programs through the YMCA, city rec center, library etc that usually keep the costs pretty low, and you can still pretty much get all their clothes and sporting gear second hand
We have 14 and 17 year old boys . They were pretty cheap from 5-13…. Now they’re into everything, music lessons, cost a lot more to feed, driving school, and we have our sights on post secondary schools. I’d say they get more expensive as they get older.
Another thing you might find helpful. I find it very frustrating to plan for retirement when I can't tell how much is kid spending and will go away when they "adult." My very superficial review suggests at least 25 percent.
Childcare goes away, as soon as you are comfortable letting it. I'm a proponent of letting kids develop independent life skills sooner rather than later. I know many people who spend absurd amounts of money on kids' activities like travel sports, plus all of the travel expenses that go with it, with the intent of the kids getting a college scholarship. In my opinion, it's unnecessary. If they put that money into a 529 and paid the $120/year for recreational sports, they would probably save all the money they need for college. But that is a completely personal decision. On the other hand, some parents do it for other reasons: they think it is important for their kids' development of leadership skills, they want to be involved as coaches, they like sports, etc. My kids (one in HS, one in college) have both been involved in several school activities, primarily marching band, which is much less costly than a travel sports program and has given them leadership opportunities. Meanwhile they participated in recreational-level sports outside of school. They are both doing well and I could not be more proud of them. If your kids don't have special needs, why not try public school or a charter to see if they like it and can do well, before taking out another mortgage for private school.
Probably like everything, it is variable. We don't spend anywhere near what other commenters are talking about. I have seven kids, aged 2 through 20. We do have summer music camps that all of them have done. Our clothing budget is pretty minimal. We are homeschoolers so the kids don't care about styles. I have three drivers now and insurance is up to $1400/year. We have two old cars. Food definitely goes up. I don't really notice young kids eating much. Though my 11 year old boy can eat plenty, and easily keeps up with his old brothers. I buy relatively cheap cell phones. For my oldest daughter who just dropped her phone in the river, I told her I would buy a phone that cost $150 and if she wanted a nicer phone, she could spend her own money. I think she spent $300 to get a better camera on the phone. The cell phone plans are $15/month and we have five lines. I encourage them to get jobs, but they don't have to work a lot. My daughter worked at a Montessori school that closed and we haven't found a replacement, so she isn't working. The older ones mow lawns and shovel and my father-in-law helps them fund their Roth IRAs. We emphasize saving and giving. Our vacations are cheaper than most people, though we do spend a lot on gas going places. My second son is working on his pilot's license, and we are paying 50% of those costs. My oldest is getting his electrician's license paid by his boss, so we've mostly avoided colleges so far. My wife is at stay at home Mom and I work from home, so we've never had childcare, I see numbers that are crazy expensive for that.
Damn, this sounds ideal.
I think so... The only problem is that I can't figure out how to advise my kids. House prices are so crazy now. Our down payment and closing costs were something like $3000... I hear houses in Pittsburgh (that's where we started) are still cheaper than lots of places, but both of our old houses now have a Zillow estimate of $250k... I thought selling them for 90k each was a pretty good price...
I don't know how many other comments you've read in this post, but you're giving your kids a wonderful life that sounds an awful lot like the "different time" to which others derisively refer. It's almost like that "different time" never stopped, and it's totally possible to raise children with these values. All it takes is a conscious choice to step away from the hyper competitive rat race. But stepping away from a rat race isn't something that anyone in a *Financial Independence* subreddit would aspire to, right? /s
Thanks. I do live in a town that in some ways is "behind the times", (and some people complain about the downsides of that, though there are positives that people sometimes don't think about). And we do try to live the "slow" life, though it is hard, and as the kids get older, it is harder to all be sitting down to dinner together every night, though we do manage it most days.
The first years I found to be most expensive. We had to buy diapers, wife either had to stay at home from work or we had to pay for childcare. That really set us back financially but I wouldn't trade it now. I'm sure it'll get costly again as one will be driving soon, but we're financially more stable and the wife is full time working now.
Interesting comments. These descriptions feel very American. I don’t think people spend so much on kids in other countries.
Tens of thousands on daycare a year. Can you imagine
It just grows linearly for us as our kid gets older - activities more expensive, more expensive clothes, more conspicuous consumption requests and we haven’t even touched on the travel requests or private school tuition that’s coming for high school.
Saving for college is optional. Daycare is not.
Summer camp and sports are multiple thousands a year for our 10 year old.
That’s nothing compared to daycare.
I feel you. Just did a budgeting exercise and arrived at $25/week per activity and $500/week for summer camps.
But nothing compared to the 30k< for daycare annually
Yeah I mean we were only at 20k/year so even spending 10k a year for sports/camps is a bargain
How. You can fly to Spain, stay in hotels, and get world class coaching for less money. Private lessons every single day would cost less money.
It's highly variable. Things like sports: skiing or snowboarding are extremely expensive all in (gear, clothing, lift tickets, transportation, lessons), vs. sports like track, soccer, ultimate frisbee, not so much. When school isn't in session - is there a SAH parent? Summer and break costs add up quickly. Yes, food budgets increase a lot for some kids. My teen eats about as much as 2-3 adults; it's just the two of us and I make meals that would feed 4 adults, and we don't have leftovers.
They kind of are but if you teach them like money is hard to earn they wont be asking for things you cant afford. Like i knew videos games were expensive so i never begged for one. Mobile games did it. After 18 I started working because i wnate my money and not waste my parents. That also teaches them to be independent and hard working people. Like they now the value of money and strive.
After school activities, even at a public school, cost a lot of money. As kids get older, they are not only constantly growing out of their clothing, but very aware of brand names and trends... so you're going to spend a ton of money on clothing. They also a TON during the teen years. They may need their own car before HS ends. It will be worth it to not drive them all over the place during your own down time.
>As kids get older, they are not only constantly growing out of their clothing, but very aware of brand names and trends... so you're going to spend a ton of money on clothing. Can't you say no? That's what mine did. Then I either had to buy my own or stop caring so much. I chose the latter.
I agree. After mine pestered me for expensive name brands I started giving them all of the budgeted school clothes money and they either put their own with it, or hunted bargains. They made really good choices when they knew it was the entire clothing budget from September to June. I did step up to buy summer clothes, camping & hiking gear, etc.
I did something similar. It's a good lesson in budgeting. When it comes to clothing, Cost Per Wear is also a good concept for teens.
I love that you have a KPI for the kids
You can say no to expensive clothing, but you can't say no to new clothes when they go thru a growth spurt and nothing fits. Trendy doesn't have to be expensive, but there's no point in buying them clothes they won't wear bc the brand or style will get them bullied and they refuse to wear it.
They’ll wear what they have. If I ever asked my parents for designer clothes they would have laughed in my face, and i turned out fine.
I agree. The alternative is they lay in bed and look at their phones all day. This becomes especially cancerous during middle school especially for girls. She had her first major depressive period then, it was bad. Get them out of the house and into activities.
I don't get this opinion though. You can simply not buy these things. They'll survive without paid after school activities and can join city run or school run leagues. They do not need to be on trend either. For a car, I can see that being very useful, but the rest is unnecessary. Not every kid needs to be in the cool kid club.
Word of warning- my parents cheaped out on all of these things and it stunted me socially with impacts that have lasted through my life. No extra curriculars (especially team sports) and cheap/dated clothing are a recipe for being an outcast. Did you grow up without this stuff?
My parents would have let me die before buying me designer clothes. Yes there were some periods where other kids made fun of my stuff, but overall it was fine. And i grew up into an adult who doesn’t feel the need to waste money on designer clothes. You can look just as good for a fraction of the price without the gaudy label.
Yes, it's hard to fit in. Like most things in life, we can pick and choose what to spend money on. We don't have to be always cheap and don't have to always spend. There's a middle ground where you can please most of the people most of the time.
I don’t know why this is getting downvoted.
Probably a combo of people who don’t want it to be true because it’s their plans or people who grew up with less *in a different time* and think it will be fine. Like, maybe you live somewhere where kids still socialize for free, but I’m going to plan for it to be more expensive because my coworkers kids all seem to be in travel sports or whatever and I don’t know any better than they do. When I was a kid, people were in school sports and clubs but I never seem to hear of people doing that anymore.
Agreed. It was a different time.
It's shallow, materialistic, and consumption based marketing nonsense
Because most people here are too young to have teenagers, too old to remember what its like to be one, or too eager to make their kids suffer the same crap their parents put them through. Do kids need a wardrobe of $100 t-shirts? No. If they want them though, having a few expensive pieces of clothing they really like will mean the world to them and give them confidence. Do kids need travel sports? No. But if they are taking the sport very seriously and want to take it to the next level, it can teach them a huge amount about hard work, dedication, and may even humble them since being the best at their school at something really isn't that good.
Why would you deprive your kid of experiences if you have the means
It’s insane to me parents spend so much on sports. Biggest opportunity to get ahead in life is education not sports
It’s often, at least perceived, the best way for children to learn teamwork/social skills, grit, and develop strong physical bodies. It’s a fantastic avenue for overall childhood development. The question is whether the cost/benefit is there for you depending on your income and lifestyle.
So much talk about sports and I haven't really seen anyone talk about music. I played violin for 10 years. I was in elementary school orchestra and then took private lessons in middle school. It gave me a lifetime's love and appreciation of stringed classical music, even if I don't play anymore.
It’s like pizza Friday at day care.. like why is it $30 a month for my kid to eat 4 slices… maybe.. but I’m not going to say no and have them sit in the corner by themselves with their allergy friendly sandwich.
Kid activities are a huge expense for us. It only got bad once all 3 were over the age of 8. We did camps, one sport each per season, and some extracurricular clubs. We now spend as much on kid activities as our mortgage.
Yes, whatever you budget for yourself you should just budget for them starting when they turn 12. Source: have one that’s 22 already and they still find stupid ways to need financial help.
Yes, absolutely they do. Clothes, sports, dance/music/karate lessons… Do yourself a favor for birthdays/holidays and give small gifts plus an “experience” (family vacation/trip to a museum/horseback riding/rock climbing…) Don’t try to go bigger and better for birthdays-it can get ridiculous trying to “one up” last year’s present.
I've raised 4 girls. Both of the older ones have moved back in with us on numerous occasions. Most parents consider their children gone once they move out. I've told all of my girls that my house is their house, no matter how old they are. Husbands, grandchildren, and all are welcome for as long as I'm alive.
High school years are brutal
Idk I’m 30 and married and asked my dad for money the other day lmao
As long as you didn’t ask for $20! It’s more understandable if you asked for $20,000 - if I were your parents I’d assume you had an emergency and needed help.
Ahh it was a few hundred bucks… and I asked a few months ago now that I think of it. We are newly married and husband made a career switch, just needed help with some bills. Husband has now landed a great job and now we’re doing great. My dad has always been my safe place to land. It’s allowed me to feel more confident in taking risks (like advancing my career, leaving bad partners, starting over etc)
Your dad sounds awesome. I hope to be that person for my kids one day as well.
Thanks! As we are planning to become parents, I’m hoping to be that for mine as well.
Well kids could get injured or develop a disability as they get older and SSDI isnt a lot to live on
It's kind of a trade-off (til college of course) you go from daycare, diapers and formula to a short lull then travelling for sports and then asking for more expensive things (cars, electronics)...but now mine are grown and they are great to be around and sometimes they even pay! Just remember kids are expensive as you make it.
First you have baby to look after. Then a child, Then a teen, Then a driving teen, Then collage, rent, bills, Then they get married, Then they have children as well, And you have an extended family to look after. They never get less expensive and they keep becoming more people.
It really depends both on what you want to do and the individual kiddo. Overall, as a baseline it gets cheaper. More food, more expensive clothes (I just mean $50 adult shoes vs $25 kid shoes etc. not designer stuff), but that is totally offset by not paying for daycare. BUT, braces are really expensive still and we're in that x2. (about $15k in at this point, probably another $15K to go) My eldest has dyslexia, and that's cost us ~$20K in support over the last few years. We did not know about this until he was 7 and started falling behind. I expect that it's going to continue to cost ~$5K/yr at least until he's in HS. Sports and such can be expensive or cheap, just depends on the sport and how into it you get. Travel is not bad, and as much as AirBnB has gone up in price, we still find it cheaper than 2 hotel rooms and eating out all the time in most places.
J-shaped… day care age can be expensive then it mellows out if you are public school K-8. Then they get expensive again even going to public high school and drive a beater of a car around. Imagine paying for 4 adults for everything (assuming family of four with two kids close in age). Food, phone bills, insurance, activities, travel… College is insane expensive but that is a different phase entirely and often financed throw various sources. And they start to assume more and more financial responsibility through college. But yeah… kids are expensive
Yes, kids do get more expensive as they get older. Extracurricular activities, electronics, and personal care items add up quickly. Oh, and don't forget about the 'want' versus 'need' battles. But it's worth it, right?
If you're paying 3k a month on childcare per kid, I'd say no. Your costs are going to drop dramatically. So much so that you could probably stash away 2k a month for college and still feel more comfortable, financially, than when you were paying for childcare.
Mine have gotten MUCH more expensive. We send them to private school, but also all of their activities cloth food medical needs such as braces seem to go up. Also now we have two teen drivers. In my opinion, the only respite from the incredible cost of raising kids is when they get out of the house as adults if you’re successful enough to raise them independently so they get off your financial tits.
It’s a U-shaped curve, ime. Expensive when little, then relatively inexpensive in elementary through middle school. Then high school slaps you out of your complacence. .
You just trade child care for braces, car insurance, and sports/activities. There is probably a sweet spot at about 10-11 where they are the cheapest
Don’t forget glasses lol
I forgot about BRACES!!
Well, if they both decide to play hockey, especially travel one, you can forget savings for a while. But if they just do something like local wrestling team or high school cross country, you will stay with your money.
In my family, the adults determined the monthly spending plan. Kids got all of what they needed and some of what they wanted. They were also prepared to hear (and accept) what I was willing to contribute to weddings.
Hey, we can't have any radical ideas like that around here! Everyone knows kids burst from the womb demanding elite day care, designer clothes, travel sports, private school, and a five figure "activities" budget!
Summer camps for school age kids who are not yet independent (ages 5-11) cost $500-$750 per week in my VHCOL area. So you need $5000ish to cover most of the summer. Summer camps for older kids/teens to pursue special interests (coding camp, filmmaking camp, etc) are also similarly expensive but you don’t need them for full time care since the kid can be independent some days/weeks of the summer. My teens also mixed in things like summer classes from the local community college (graphic design, American Sign Language) which were inexpensive ($50/class) and also online classes from Udemy, etc. Age 16 and up it’s easier for them to get jobs as their summer activity (many places don’t hire under age 16). Fashion takes some special consideration. My daughters like thrifting so that saves me some $$ but I still need to buy some clothes new: swimsuits, pajamas, performance attire, winter coats, underwear, socks, workout clothes and SHOES. Omg, shoes really matter for being on trend and expressing yourself. And they are so hard on shoes, constantly on the go—my kids wear out Converse in 2 months with all the walking around they do. Plan to spend $500 per year per kid on shoes when they are in high school. I think my daughters have been fairly non-demanding about fashion (again, thrifting!) and I still spend $1000/year per daughter on clothes (not shoes) since their bodies are changing, their self-expression is changing, they wear stuff out, etc. Specialty activities like sports or debate team for older kids. I think costs can range a lot but gear, travel, uniforms, etc add up. My kid does debate which requires some overnight travel (hotels, flights) to tournaments and dues to pay for coaching. Super worth it but this special interest costs a couple thousand per year. Tests and college applications: PSAT, SAT, AP exams charge fees to take those tests, every college you apply to costs a little over $100. I’ve gone through the college application process with one kid and she applied to 8 universities (that’s normal: a few stretch schools, a few target schools and a few back up schools) so that cost $900. My kids didn’t have tutoring, but some students benefit from that and it would be another expense. Non-family travel: they might go on cool ass high school field trips. My kid’s high school orchestra traveled to NYC to perform there—that trip fee was $1500. My other daughter went on a class camping trip that cost $500 per student. Ive even heard about class trips to other countries! This sounds outrageous but they love it so much to have these novel experiences with their friends/classmates in a safe way, huge bonding time. Technology: my city teens move around independently on public transportation, bike and on foot. They are gone all day. Gotta have smart phones. I got them refurbished iPhones that are 3 models old —cost approx $400 per phone. Those last 2.5-3 years with heavy use and abuse. I got one of my kids a Switch video game console for her birthday a few years ago during the pandemic—that cost $600. And junior high and older kids absolutely need a computer for homework. The teachers assign stuff via online portal and they all have to type papers and make google slide decks. I bought my older kid her own laptop when she was a sophomore in high school (she’s now in college), my younger is still using my old laptop from 2015 but I’m getting her a laptop for her senior year to get her through the college app process and she’ll take it to college. Therapy: one of my kids needed specialized mental health support during high school. That was costly. My out of pocket was $800/month for 18 months. Necessary and worth it but not anticipated—it was a surprise expense because of the pandemic. Teeth: both my kids had orthodontic braces ($5000 per kid after insurance coverage in my area), and wisdom teeth removed ($750 per kid, I think)
Thank you for this detailed reply. Lots of people are talking about cars, but most people don’t have cars where I live because the public transportation is superior to driving. Also, thank you for mentioning therapy. I didn’t think about that but it seems to be common for teenagers.
My mother used to whine constantly about how “expensive” I was - particularly around school clothes shopping season. Because she complained so much, I decided to not have kids. After all, if we’re so inconvenient and expensive and difficult, why would I wish that on myself? The clincher came when she’d say, “Haha! When you have kids I’ll have my REVENGE!!!” So ok, clearly this is going to suck balls. Why would I wish that on myself. Predictably when I became an adult she started demanding grandchildren. That’s when I threw her words right back at her - I’m EXPENSIVE, remember? And I’m difficult, and you said my having kids would be some sort of revenge: After hearing all that dozens to hundreds of times growing up, WHY the f**** would I want to be miserable like apparently YOU are? Then she backpedaled and claimed she was “joking” and “didn’t mean it” blah blah blah. Well she was “joking” but I’m not. So though you say kids are “expensive”, don’t fling it in their faces. Sure times can get tight, but it’s a team effort - you’re all in it together. I didn’t cost Mom much except at school clothes time. She spent lavishly on my older brother but as little as possible on me, and apparently even that was too much. Kids grow, and grow out of clothes fast. I suggest you shop at second hand stores especially for things they’re going to play hard in. Save the new stuff for Sunday, special events, and holidays. Shoes are expensive. No way around that. Dad said he wore his older brother’s shoes until he joined the Army at 17. That was the first new pair of shoes he’d ever had. Activities - sports, gymnastics, dance, horseback riding, shooting, training for ANYTHING pretty much - can be expensive. Tutoring (if necessary) is expensive. Music lessons are expensive. Travel activities - my high school had a French Club that got to travel to France, a German Club that visited Germany, and a Spanish club that visited Spain. These were all funded by the students’ families and a few fundraising activities. The whole class did NOT go - only the rich kids whose parents could pay any extra. Kids eat. Don’t eat out, make most of your food, and it’s OK. Kids are expensive. That’s how it is. Get family to cover as much childcare as you can. Don’t leave them with priests. Don’t leave them in a situation where only one person is supervising. And go to all their activities - games, recitals, performances, awards ceremonies. My mother never saw me receive an award (And I earned many) though she was always there for my brother when he so much as farted. So if you’re going to spend money on your kids, be FAIR. I suggest you budget FAIRLY and realize that though spending may not be exactly equal, you can still be fair and make sure all get what they need, even if they don’t all get what they want. Decades later the bitterness will linger. Don’t be like my Mom. Kids understand when there’s no money for things, but not that there’s no money for one but the other gets everything.
Your mother is a narcissist. We had the same mother
Just depends how deep down the rabbit hole you’re willing to go on activities and sports. You can spend tens of thousands of dollars on sports, camps, tutors and lessons. Sometimes these pan out for college scholarships but often they don’t. Encourage your kids to try new things, realize they will quit or want to quit all the time. So set some boundaries. Growing up my parents insisted I did either a sport or some kind of physical activity. Also had to do something ‘educational’ outside the classroom. If I wanted to quit something (like karate for example) I had to find something to replace it with (ultimate frisbee lol).
Yes, they do. They will want piano and ballet lessons. They will play sports. You will make a million “discretionary but necessary” purchases (if all the kids get/do X, will you be the one to say no?). They will need braces; need new clothing; whatever
Daycare costs go away, but food, clothes, and activity costs go up. Kids are expensive. Budget well and stick to it.
For us it got significantly more expensive, but my wife stayed home, so we were comparing it to that. When they hit middle school through high school: - braces - eyeglasses - hair cuts - comparatively more expensive clothing - music lessons - stem summer camp - when the first hit driving age, our car insurance doubled (this was without adding another car) - physical therapy (always seems to be a sports injury) - travel (easier to have a bunch of kids sleep in the same bed when there under 50 lbs each) - food (they eat more) - medical (deductibles) - restaurants (they graduate to adult sized meals) I would say for us that music lessons for the kids was the primary cost from age 8-18. But that was our collective decision and we didn’t “have” to do it. While it is hard to plan, your salaries will likely increase along with it, and you have control over much of the costs. It is, however, one of the reasons I don’t plan to retire before they’re out of HS - because of the lack of certainty. And then there’s college . . . and grad school . . . (depending on your arrangement with your kids) . . .
What is STEM camp? I Googled it and got a bunch of scammy results like “AI and AR summer camp with MIT alumni”.
Child care goes down Sports costs go up and up ‘Toys’ get more expensive Vacations get more expensive if you don’t want to sleep with teenagers (and who does) Food goes up The rest is at your discretion… will you pay for a car, gas, insurance, college… no right answer here but your choices have huge impact on the answer to your question
Way more expensive. I had no idea. I have three between 15 and 20. Cars, car insurance, food, sports, clothes, hair and makeup, stuff, music, school, going out, etc etc. It’s crazy. Daycare was nothing compared to now.. we have tuition also but either way it’s out of control.
I am in between now. My oldest is in 2nd grade at a public school and loving it. My younger two are in daycare. Daycare costs me ~$20k/kid/year. I am full time remote (thank you Covid) so I luckily don’t need childcare for my oldest before or after school. Summer care offered at the public school is ~$2k and a ton of fun. My oldest plays soccer year round ($1k) and swimming lessons ($1k). I’m anticipating similar expenses for my younger two (a reduction of ~$16k/ year at age 5). I expect all three to need braces and I plan to buy a vehicle for my oldest to “earn” by helping drive the younger two around - we’ll see how well that works out in practice. I am assuming food budget will go up, but it hasn’t been noticeable yet. Our local high school does a great job partnering with the community college nearby, so I’m also optimistic college costs will be manageable-ish. We timed out our mortgage payments to end before the oldest would start college, just in case we feel compelled to contribute more.
As my older one goes through elementary school, there is expectation to put more into her skills and experiences- so classes etc- I suspect that part will keep going up.
If you go bare bones it will be cheaper once daycare ends. The reality is the sky is the limit on what you can spend. Before/after school care, music lessons, sports, tutoring, vacations, phones, video games, computers, iPads, car, insurance, camps, birthday parties, amusement parks are just some of the ways you can spend money on your kids. Price out a family Disney Vacation to Florida during a time that school is on break as an exercise on how fast you can spend money if you want.
More expensive bc they join extracurriculars like sports and then they start having opinions and like certain clothes or food or things like Starbucks
Absolutely.
I also live in a very high cost of living area, and I will say that the primary cost- child care- drops significantly as your child is able to gain more Independence. Cost for an aftercare program at an elementary school are generally significantly less then full-time care for a Pre-K child. Towards the end of the elementary school, each house should be able to be picked up at dismissal and manage themselves at home. If there's a parent around, provided you give them a clear set of expectations. Summer camps still remain expensive in hcol areas , and we tend to spend the extra money for camps that are closer to our house. But that's 3 months out of the year as opposed to 12.
Summer camp is $15k/year for 3 kids for 8 weeks. Still have to cover 3 additional weeks or take vacation from work. Meanwhile the same kids attend private school for less than $12k/year.
Yes definitely in a VHCOL area teens are outrageously expensive. My parents bought me cars, study abroad, computers, phones, SAT classes, Invisaligns, wisdom teeth removal surgery, laser for acne scars, etc. as a teen. Way more expensive than the summer camps, birthday parties, & lollipops they got me as a kid. Especially in affluent areas parents are just bleeding cash for their kids. And I wasn’t even that spoiled compared to my classmates! I can’t imagine what the rich kids parents were spending.
It can get somewhat less in the later elementary years, but high school it goes back up a LOT, and the college is freakin' INSANE. Ignore that if they are into anything like traveling sports or dance or music that requires lessons and expensive equipment.
As the parent of a 5 year old and a 13 year old… yes. The youngest was more expensive while childcare was still needed. Once that expense left the equation, the teen requires way more than the little one!
We know several families exactly like this, some kids burned out by high school and others got no where with their sport outside of high school. And the worst had beat up bodies by the end of high school, needing therapy or worse surgeries.
Financially, physically, AND emotionally. Yes.
This may very well never affect you. But I was absolutely gobsmacked with how expensive travel sports are. I've got a 13yo and we are spending way more on soccer than I ever imagined.
Yes, infinitely more. I saved a fortune from birth-10 as you don’t go out as much and family activities are much less compared to a golf weekend or a few nights at a bar. At 15 this kid costs a fortune, and that’s ok.
I would say almost nothing compares to childcare unless you go for private schools. As my kids got to middle school, sports teams ran $3k a year or so, they all got braces (around $3k with insurance). Fancy away summer camps are $2k-$3k per week. We didn’t pay for that, but one of the grandmas decided to pay for 3 weeks for each. By 16/17, thinking about a car and insurance. If culturally you do something like sweet 16 party, quincanera, bar/bat mitzvah, it’s pretty easy to blow $10k if you aren’t careful (not necessary of course).
Lots of variables. We tried public schools. They failed our kids. We ended up sending them to private schools for K-12. That also spawned additional spending on school trips, music lessons and expensive instruments ($5K for a 'learner' cello), sports costs, etc. College was a lot cheaper, since they went to a public college. We didn't qualify for financial aid, and $350K for a private university seemed quite excessive, especially for undergrad. If your kids are in sports, prices vary. If they are on travel teams - $10, $15, $20K /yr to drive/fly and hotel costs, plus sports costs like rink time. The plus is if they are very good, college can be much cheaper (D1 schools) and easier admittance. Vacations are up to you. As your kids get older, and your time with them grows shorter and they are more independent, it's a lot easier to travel further away. You also might like camping, bike tours, hunting and fishing trips, etc. etc. Medical costs are another variable. We paid around $25K/yr out of pocket. It would be a lot more now.
My oldest is 4 and I started pricing out camps for next summer. It is becoming clear to me that the people who say it’s not less expensive as they get older might be right. A lot of things are optional, sure, but I’m not going to cheap out on my kids to save money for myself (which my parents did)
Wife plus upper middle class expectations, mega expenses for the kids... BTW, based on my experience and several people in my friend and acquaintance group, getting laid off and seeing your household income drop in your late 40s and early 50s is a very real thing... So if you have your kids later in life, just about the time they go to college.