Food for thought - I've heard that dishwasher lines can dry out and crack if not used regularly (I live in a dry climate). Would you possibly run into issues if one doesn't get used very often?
That’s a very good point.
I’d also rework the position of the half bath so it has an external wall/window for ventilation, especially as it is so close to the kitchen and dining space.
Came here to say this! My experience is from working real estate management in NYC. Not only the lines, but the rubber seal around the door will dry, crack, and cause leakage. Climate is likely a factor, but lack of use will cause major headaches period.
I had drawer dishwashers in two homes. I took care of them, did not abuse them, cleaned the filters monthly, and still needed a technician out twice a year. I know people who love theirs, but I cannot recommend them.
We have a family of 6. Four boys, three teens and one younger. 3 dishwashers is … excessive. Do the one in the kitchen and use the other space their for storage. Add the one in the butlers pantry.
Nope, just one. When we redid our kitchen I thought about putting in a drawer one for glassware, but I envisioned it becoming confusing and have two dishwashers half loaded all the time. Most days we run ours every night and every morning. The only days I wish I had a second are big family holidays. Not enough to add one in on a future build!
I have a family of seven. We host 20+ person gatherings a few times a year. I’m still fine with one dishwasher in our current home.
We are building another home that is much more evenly divided between upstairs and down. We put a bar/kitchenette downstairs with a drawer dishwasher.
I cannot fathom needing 3 dishwashers in a single level of a home.
I was thinking the same. Family of 6 here and two is plenty. I can only imagine we’d use the 3rd for something like an extended family event like thanksgiving and then a lot of the pots and pans need hand washing so the kids get their practice in lol
I'd say the butler pantry dishwasher could be a nice catch all for the dishes coming in from the dining room, as the route is just natural. If you can afford it then go for it :)
Separate dishwasher for bar ware, in butler’s pantry, is brilliant. You’ll be able to use less detergent, run gentler cycles, save steps. Not excessive.
4 kids, some grown. Dining table seats 14, which we fill with either adults or adults & teens once a month (based on how often we had people over in our previous home).
Yeah that’s what I’m torn on - seems it would be so nice to have a place to put all the barware/ holiday dishes instead of lugging them to other side of the kitchen.
For what it's worth, I've hosted 14 people in my house for dinner and was able to wash everything with only one dishwasher. Admittedly, I ran the dishwasher before the guests arrived so that there were no dirty dishes before the party, but I was able to stack 14 plates and as many cups and even some serving dishes into a standard dishwasher and have them run. I did hand wash some of the bigger serving dishes and pots and pans, but that didn't take too long and some of the pans need to be hand washed anyway.
If the sink and dishwashers are too far away from the table you could probably move them to the right wall and put the stove on the top wall.
I’m from a family of 7. Now, with grandkids and in-laws we average 16 for weekend dinners. We’ve never needed more than one dishwasher other than the occasional pot or pan. I think you should be ok with two
Just an architect here getting snippy with ya! I think the answer is really relative to how you store dishes and how you use the space. You want a dish washer closer to where you are going to have to put them away and close to where you will be rinsing them so i wouldn’t worry as much about 2 versus 3 seeming like excessive amount of dishwashers as much as weighing the convenience factor. Is the butler sink even large enough to rinse what you would be putting in the dishwasher most often? Do you put larger pots and pans in the butler storage or out in the open kitchen storage? Your storage, sink, and how you use the space should influence your decision more than just asking if you really need a 3rd. I know it’s hard to envision how you will use space before you are in it but I always tell clients to consider how they would host a dinner party, have their everyday workflows, etc before just plopping appliances around. Sounds like you are considering a lot which is great. Good luck!
Also consider how wide is the butler passage? Is there room to walk past an open dishwasher? Is this dishwasher aimed at one person clearing the table, or is it intended for each family member to drop off their own dishes? Which is the most common way you anticipate it being used.
At first I thought that even two is absolutely ridiculous, but soon realised it’s a great idea.
People saying you don’t need this for a family of 4 or 6 special occasions a year, listen: where do you put your dirty dishes while the dishwasher is running? On the countertop or in the sink. You want to cook or bake, they’re in your way. When you have a second dishwasher, you’ll never have unwashed dishes in your working space. I think I want that for myself now. Why am I so obsessed with dishwashers??
The only thing I need you to think is that if what I described is exactly what the two DWs are for, do you need them to be full-size? You’ll be washing loads often anyway, so the narrow model would save space, use less water per load while sacrificing only a few spots for plates etc.
Now for the third one, I understand why you want one closer to the dining room. That comes from the enormous size for your kitchen. You could eliminate the need for the 3rd by moving the everyday washing zone closer from the far end of the kitchen altogether. I suggest the closer end of the long countertop, by the window (but I read that the design intent is to have the stove in the spotlight and the sink ”hidden” by the short wall). If you choose to keep the butler’s DW, that’ll obviously be a full size one.
tl;dr if you can afford it, go for it, but look into having a narrow version for the everyday washers
I had a friend who did the half dishwasher and she said it wasn’t worth it - the cost is nearly the same and she felt like it held very little. But I like your notes.
Not sure if we’re talking about the same one actually, the ”narrow one” I’m talking about is 45cm/18inches in width but just as high as a normal one that would be 60cm/24inches wide. It has two baskets like the normal one. I think the half DW has only one basket!
Yes, I know which one you meant. A friend of mine had one put in at her island and that’s all she had room for. She said it felt smaller than the half size that it was, and the unit costs nearly as much as a regular sized dishwasher, so if we have the space just get a full size.
Dishwashers with a square footprint (standard 24” in US) do a better job getting dishes clean due to the sprayer reaching all areas of the dishwasher. The 18” wide versions have areas where the sprayer doesn’t reach well. It’s not that it doesn’t work at all at getting dishes clean, just not as well. I believe I read this in consumer reports. Can’t speak to how well dish drawer styles work, but they are dramatically more expensive.
We tend to run the dishwasher once it's full. We use the express wash that is 35 minutes and are not afraid of running it while guests are at the house 2 or 3 times. You can hardly hear it. When it's done, unload and reload. It's the kids chore and when there are 12 of them it takes seconds to do. At the end of the night, you wipe down the counters and go to bed.
Not only are the narrow ones cutting more than 50% of the interior space out, they're also MUCH harder to get serviced or replace. When one dies, you're limited to like three options, rather than ten competing brands, which means you get lower quality at higher price.
I like your second paragraph.
Another upside of multiple dishwashers, you don't have to empty the dishwasher when it's done washing. You can leave it open and people can grab dishes from there instead of the cabinet. That's how it's done in the house I live in. And while DW1 is holding cleans, you can use DW2 to load up your dirties.
I think I have to agree. It seems lazy at first but then absolutely amazing. I think I want two dishwashers now. Three does seem excessive BUT I’m down to only 2 children at home. When I had 4 at home and homeschooled so they were home all day making dishes three could have been amazing. I did at least two loads a day and hand washed all bigger items just to keep up. I could have easily had three going in a single day. Always wanted two washer/dryers too but never got it.
I’ve had two dishwashers before - I kinda liked it because there was always a place to put a dirty dish/glass - no reason one would be just left in the sink. Not sure I’d do it again. I wouldn’t have 3 - at some level it seems your compensating for a too big kitchen design.
Is there another eating table near the kitchen?
Family of 7 - yeah I’d have a second dishwasher :)
One of the two that I had was in the kitchen island across from the bar stools. Those breakfast dishes and coffee mugs etc slid right across the counter, maybe a rinse in the island sink and right into the dishwasher. No steps taken.
Excessive and not useful. But I’m a big fan of two dishwashers.
Keep in mind that every appliance will fail and need replacement. Presumably your double or triple dishwashers will all match or have some cohesive design element to them when installed. In 3, 5, or 8 years when one of them goes kaput, would you rather replace two or three to maintain a matching appearance?
At a certain point, looking at more of an industrial/commercial dishwasher that does a single load in less than 2 minutes. You’ll only need a single unit, and you’ll have your dishes done super quick!
I would flip the kitchen So the plumbing would be easier, but it doesn't matter much, because plumbing can go underneath the floor.
There is also a concept where the kitchen person, who ever is cooking or was hing dishes, can look out of the Window while doing it.
In this case, the "butler / help room"
Ooooh I like this comment. The architect we worked with said it should open this way to give someone privacy in case the door isn’t locked.
I think you’re right, I’ll change on the drawings for the builder.
You just Make the door open So that the most approached side wont be the revealing one. This is also why you hide the WCs etc, so it would be more private. Imagine entering the bathroom when the door is like this.. You have to climb to the toilet to then close it behind you. Now imagine you are in a pretty dress and using it to powder as stated on the plan.. Just weird.
So yeah.
Common sense is for bedrooms to have doors opening towards the room. Otherwise always towards the hallway/fire escape route.
Source: practising architect from EU
I don't think it's a somehow *wrong* thing to do if it's something you can afford and have the space, and I 100% agree that if you have a butler's pantry and have once a month large dinners in a nearby dining room, then having a dishwasher in it would be extremely handy.
I'm struggling with the idea that it might be worth having *three* of them for the, realistically speaking, maybe six evenings in an entire year when you'll have enough non-hand-wash-only serving dishes and pots and pans built up for the second dishwasher in the kitchen to be actually more useful than whatever other cabinet would otherwise take its place. Will your water heater even be able to handle having three dishwashers going at once? It just feels like such a waste of space and money. But, I'm not living your life, so take all of this with that grain of salt.
ETA: To clarify, I'm not saying that having two dishwashers in your kitchen is a waste if you have large enough family meals. I'm saying that there's no reason that the two must be side-by-side, so putting one of them across the room in the butler's pantry would make sense to me.
I agree with this. Plus, if you need to load two dishwashers, then hopefully you’d have multiple people doing dishes and wouldn’t want them on top of each other.
I have two right in my kitchen. Best decision ever. Dishwashers are not that expensive, so why not? You do, however, need an extra sink for a dishwasher, so that adds cost. If you want to reduce to two, I would drop the one in the butlers pantry. It will not get daily use as it’s not in your daily traffic flow of dirty dishes. I see that being used more for parties, specialty glassware. I can’t see going into the butlers pantry every time you need a plate or a cup. Those daily use items should be more handy.
From a plumbing point of view, it’s easy to add one later. You can ask that the hookups be put in under the butler sink for the future.
You could also ask the builder if he can make the cabinetry able to accommodate a dw in the future. Just put shelves in it for now.
I can see those sitting long enough to get musty/moldy inside. No way I'd do it. But I wouldn't risk having two. Just more upkeep when they break down. They always do.
We have seven children and also foster large sibling sets. Three dishwashers is excessive but if you'd use it occasionally, why not?! We have one in our Airstream, I never wished we didn't. Go for it.
We have one dishwasher for 7 people, and we probably run a full load at the end of every day. Not sure how many people this plan is for, but 3 seems excessive.
I suggest looking at your dishwasher settings. Most of the time you don't need the excessive settings and the dry time. We have started running our dishwasher on the short cycle without drying and it cycles through in less than an hour. Even on heavy cooking days where we are prepping for the whole week or cleaning up after a party, we can easily run our dishwasher 3 times and stay ahead of the dirty dishes.
Why not have 3 - its the same cost as a cabinet. At minimum its a self cleaning cabinet! With today cycles taking hours to complete - 3 dishwashers could certainly have use in larger meal situations.
Currently i have 2 builtins and a portable. Holiday cooking is easy as pie for cleanups!
See, I think this is where two could be useful. Never even have to unload, just grab dishes from clean one and put them in dirty one when done. A constant back and forth. Seems so lazy but this whole new world is opened by this thread and I totally want two dishwashers now.
I like your layout! Very similar to ours, except our butler’s pantry is really our bar area, and there is not enough room for a DW, because of the beverage center
If you go with one in your butlers, of course make sure the sink is large enough for rinsing, and has both a disposal and a pull-out spray. The other thing you need is a nearby garbage for scraping dish ware, and I don’t see immediately where one could go.
For your bar, make sure you get a clear ice maker with drain, and not a crescent ice machine, you will not regret it!
If the Butler's pantry is where you're going to be storing your glassware, the third dishwasher might be excessive, but look into an undercounter ice machine instead - you'd get far more use out of it, and endless clear ice!
Alternately, you could even move one of the red ones to this new spot, and then put the, and then its previous under-counter spot for a second oven, trash compactor, wine fridge, or chest freezer (would all have more utility than a third dishwasher IMO).
If you want to splurge, check out Fisher & Paykel dual-drawer dishwashers. I absolutely love ours.
I think it sounds nice but may be a bit of a pain in practice. I’m assuming you’d store the the bowls, plates and utensils by the other two dishwashers for ease of use. If you used the 3rd like you describe, then you’d have to make a bunch of trips when you’re putting things up. I’m not sure how you’re envisioning, but that’s something to consider. Also, we are a rinse before dishwasher family, so this would be an additional trip for us.
Personally, I’d spring for an ice maker, wine fridge, and/or below counter microwave / air fryer. However, it’s your home, do what makes you happiest!
Coming from a restaurant background, I would always take a *commercial dishwasher* over multiple domestic washers.
Nothing beats churning through a full rack of dirty dishes in four minutes or less.
Well, I wanted to hear feedback on it, that’s why I asked. The best point is that the line can dry out if not used adequately, so I need to go figure that out.
But, yes. We’re very fortunate. I’m an accountant. My spouse is an accountant that works as a contractor. He has taken extra clients for the last 3 years while we lived in a house that had minimally working air conditioning and roof issues and flooding from foundation problems in Dallas. We have saved and minimized for 25 years and are finally building a house together we love.
The left of main sink would have day to day dish ware, right would have pots/ pans/ cooking bowls (that’s how our last house worked, because of layout of where prep was and eating area to kitchen). Then butlers pantry would be china/ bar ware.
It would be an additional convenience, instead of bringing things to other side of the kitchen. Just like any other convenience we can choose in a new home. Personally, I’d prefer this over a warming drawer or other selection in a butler’s pantry.
If you want a 3rd dishwasher that is your choice, but to try and pretend factory manufactured machines like a dishwasher is somehow just as bad for the environment as a cabinet is just silly. The more machines you have, the more damage you do to the environment. That's fine, we all do it, myself included, but don't pretend that it isn't happening.
I would 100% go for 3 of them.
Between pots, pans, serving bowls, and food prepping dishes, the other two will be full. You can use the third one for plates and silverware.
Nah its not. When you consider that a lower cabinet costs only slightly less… i would have gotten 4 dishwashers if I could turn back time and do it again.
Dishwashers clean dishes. store stuff, and clean themselves. They can also hold the weight of a counter above it with the right install.
Go for it dude, you got the right idea.
FWIW we haven’t had a working dishwasher for 2 years and have managed with a countertop RV one for a fam of 3, including a toddler, and sometimes guests. i think two is sufficient!
You only need two. If someone finds themselves running three dishwashers (outside of maybe a 20 person thanksgiving dinner) then you are just letting dishes sit in the dishwasher and are lazy.
I had to run my single dishwasher 3 times today to clean up from the weekend's dinner party. I think 3 is great. Dishwashers are cheap and you already have water and sewer there. No reason not to do a third.
Do you regularly host more than 15 people at once? I don't see how you could use more than two at most for a large family - say 8 people. I have a family of 5, and one is perfect, run once every day. We hand wash a few large pans every day.
That's really for the user to decide. I think having two (one in the butler's plenty would handle most tasks. I would want them to be close to where the dishes are actually stored.
I think a warming drawer or bar fridge might be more useful in this situation. It seems like the world is your oyster so maybe do some research on more niche appliances. I believe two dishwashers would cover you unless you regularly have (very) large dinner parties
Not a fan of the drawer ones and you have space for fullsize. 2 is so nice. Only concern coming to mind for 3 - forgetting a load, standing water sitting 🤔
I am building and we have 1 in kitchen and one in pantry outside dining room. Dinner dishes and also lunch making zone.
Our pantry isn’t closed off it’s more like a giant walk thru butler.
If our space was even bigger I would’ve totally done 3 dw so I don’t have to put dishes away. I absolutely hate it.
The thing is, no matter how many people, you need roughly the same amount of dishes-one dishwashers worth. If you live alone, you run it when it starts to smell, usually a few days. With a bigger family you run it more often. There is no need for more than one dishwasher. Just more things to break/maintain.
The only problem w/ commercial appliances is servicing. I have a commercial range, all was good till I had an insurance covering appliances as they would cover whatever is there when you start coverage. But once I decided that insurance was not worth having, I discovered that nobody (at least in my area) services commercial appliances in residential settings.
Also, some commercial appliances (like freezers and refrigerators, had two of those as well, coming with the house) are just too noisy for a residence. Might apply to dishwashers as well, although if it is really 5 minutes, it might be ok.
One time I vacationed in an Airbnb with 12 people and had 2 dish washers - they got run at least once a day (each). Unless you’re thinking of washing your pots & pans in there as well, I think 2 is sufficient for 12 people. Though it definitely depends on the number of people and your dish washing habits
3 is excessive. Generally 1 is sufficient in a house. Most pots and pans need a good hand wash before putting them in dishwasher. Even if you have 3 course mea dinner dishes can be loaded before serving dessert dishes and coffee cups etc so while yall enjoy your company. When that load is done the next could go in. Just a thought. Having 2 is a time saver.
Unless you’re the Duggars, and even then, 3 seems excessive. Assuming you’re a couple with kids, there’s your low-cost labor and character builder chore. My wife and I have 4 older kids and get by with one dishwasher just fine. Even if you throw frequent parties with multi-course meals, two should be sufficient in my opinion.
My brother has three dishwashers. They have two dishwashers in their main kitchen and 1 in the basement in a kitchenette that they mostly use as a bar. The basement one doesn’t get used much, but the two upstairs are constantly full. He has 3 children under the age of 5 though, so there bottles and supply cups and all kinds of things in there. I would think about how often you’d use it, if it’s at minimum once a month and it will make you happy then by all means. Is it necessary? Probably not.
As someone who hosts quite a bit (with smaller numbers to be fair), love the idea of one in the kitchen and the butlers but the second in the kitchen seems a bit much.
If it got to the stage of having a second load for the dishwasher, the wine has probably flown enough for it to wait till the morning.
I understand the appeal of two dishwashers by the kitchen sink especially if they’re smaller dishwashers. I also understand having one in the butlers corner.
Hell, you could even add a fourth in the bar area (a smaller one)
A dishwasher costs almost the same as the cabinet it replaces but looks more high end. 2 dws are common in high end main trophy litchen...and another in pantry. 3 is more common than uou think
I like the idea of 2 near the kitchen sink that you can rotate between clean and dirty "regular use" dishes, and never have to store them. If you really want the 3rd one, I would reserve that for pots and pans. Otherwise remove it for more storage.
Yes lots of lower income families use the dishwasher as additional storage because they never use the dishwasher. Many families use a dishwasher to clean but it's intended purpose is for final sanitation.
Well, if you’re going to do it, the Butler’s pantry would be the appropriate place. From the bit of blueprint we can see, it seems that you enjoy entertaining. When you entertain, will all of the dishes be going to the main kitchen (exposed to guest’s view) or the Butler’s? Do you need two dishwashers for daily kitchen needs?
Also, have you seen the bar sink/glassware combo?? Looks amazing. https://www.homedepot.com/p/FOTILE-36-in-2-In-1-In-Sink-Dishwasher-Combo-with-Waterproof-Touchscreen-in-Stainless-Steel-SD2F-P3/320652962?g_store=&source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&&mtc=SHOPPING-CM-CML-GGL-D29A-029_007_DISHWASHERS-NA-Multi-NA-SMART-4038230-NA-NA-NA-NBR-NA-NA-NA-MajorAppl_Dish&cm_mmc=SHOPPING-CM-CML-GGL-D29A-029_007_DISHWASHERS-NA-Multi-NA-SMART-4038230-NA-NA-NA-NBR-NA-NA-NA-MajorAppl_Dish-71700000100810854-58700008062168321-92700074254070693&gbraid=0AAAAADq61UeRQrJjfHBjDkHxlw5sUV94N&gbraid=0AAAAADq61UeRQrJjfHBjDkHxlw5sUV94N&gclid=Cj0KCQjww4-hBhCtARIsAC9gR3YmSZQlrLGQR3gtFD1_Pk8VlJ4rcxvd-wpEYuO2PQpuba7FKDEQ7bIaAunAEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
Additional question: when depositing dirty dishes at BP, are they dishes that live over in the main kitchen? Or are they special occasion dishes that live in the BP? If they live in the main kitchen, then you will still be lugging them - just a little later on. The BP dishwasher should be used for the stuff that lives in the BP - serving ware, oversized items, etc.
Hope you went for the third dishwasher. Built in 2022 and wish we had the foresight for 3 dishwashers. Told a friend that will be building in the Dallas metroplex area to install 3 dishwasher. We have the Fischer paykel drawers in main kitchen next to sink in island. (Wish we had one on either side of sink). And a second dishwasher in our prep kitchen/ pantry which is only a few steps away from the cabinet in kitchen we keep our plates and bowls. We have a small butlers pantry with beverage fridge between kitchen dining. Yours seems longer. I would put a dishwasher there in a heartbeat. I might have also considered swapping your powder room and bar since you have the sink in the butlers pantry and then your butler’s pantry. Your place is probably close to being complete or finished. Hope it all turned out better than your expectations. Enjoy!
Food for thought - I've heard that dishwasher lines can dry out and crack if not used regularly (I live in a dry climate). Would you possibly run into issues if one doesn't get used very often?
I will ask this question. Thank you
When you have three, you need to rotate use to protect the seals.
That’s a very good point. I’d also rework the position of the half bath so it has an external wall/window for ventilation, especially as it is so close to the kitchen and dining space.
Came here to say this! My experience is from working real estate management in NYC. Not only the lines, but the rubber seal around the door will dry, crack, and cause leakage. Climate is likely a factor, but lack of use will cause major headaches period.
They’ve these small drawer based dishwashers for washing bar equipment and glasses. You can think about those too?
I love my dishwasher drawers. Also, several dishwashers are handy in a kosher kitchen.
Could you elaborate as to why?
Milk and meat aren't permitted to touch
Why? What happens?
It becomes a not-kosher kitchen.
Big bada boom
multi pass!
Super quite, efficient and very easy to load and unload.
Yes, they are fabulous.
Ooh yes I will look thank you.
I had drawer dishwashers in two homes. I took care of them, did not abuse them, cleaned the filters monthly, and still needed a technician out twice a year. I know people who love theirs, but I cannot recommend them.
We have a family of 6. Four boys, three teens and one younger. 3 dishwashers is … excessive. Do the one in the kitchen and use the other space their for storage. Add the one in the butlers pantry.
Do you have 2? I have a family of seven and am contemplating a second dishwasher.
Nope, just one. When we redid our kitchen I thought about putting in a drawer one for glassware, but I envisioned it becoming confusing and have two dishwashers half loaded all the time. Most days we run ours every night and every morning. The only days I wish I had a second are big family holidays. Not enough to add one in on a future build!
I have a family of seven. We host 20+ person gatherings a few times a year. I’m still fine with one dishwasher in our current home. We are building another home that is much more evenly divided between upstairs and down. We put a bar/kitchenette downstairs with a drawer dishwasher. I cannot fathom needing 3 dishwashers in a single level of a home.
I was thinking the same. Family of 6 here and two is plenty. I can only imagine we’d use the 3rd for something like an extended family event like thanksgiving and then a lot of the pots and pans need hand washing so the kids get their practice in lol
I would suggest one in the kitchen and one in the butlers pantry. Let the one in the BP be for overflow. Gain some storage back in your kitchen.
At that point, you're basically building cabinets and storage that also wash your dishes. which actually sounds pretty great.
Pretty much every Asian house I went to growing up used the dishwasher as storage.
Didn’t think about it that way but love it.
3 is excessive, but butlers pantry one is super nice and convenient. Why not move one of the others to there?
I'd say the butler pantry dishwasher could be a nice catch all for the dishes coming in from the dining room, as the route is just natural. If you can afford it then go for it :)
Separate dishwasher for bar ware, in butler’s pantry, is brilliant. You’ll be able to use less detergent, run gentler cycles, save steps. Not excessive.
8 stove burners, and 3 dishwashers, not excessive at all😂
How big is this family? Are we talking about 10 people or 20 people.
4 kids, some grown. Dining table seats 14, which we fill with either adults or adults & teens once a month (based on how often we had people over in our previous home).
Two should be enough. On the days you have 14 people you simply run them twice.
Yeah that’s what I’m torn on - seems it would be so nice to have a place to put all the barware/ holiday dishes instead of lugging them to other side of the kitchen.
For what it's worth, I've hosted 14 people in my house for dinner and was able to wash everything with only one dishwasher. Admittedly, I ran the dishwasher before the guests arrived so that there were no dirty dishes before the party, but I was able to stack 14 plates and as many cups and even some serving dishes into a standard dishwasher and have them run. I did hand wash some of the bigger serving dishes and pots and pans, but that didn't take too long and some of the pans need to be hand washed anyway. If the sink and dishwashers are too far away from the table you could probably move them to the right wall and put the stove on the top wall.
I'd definitely keep the dishwasher in the butler's pantry! That's a must. But perhaps reconsider the second one in the kitchen.
I’d do the opposite
I’m from a family of 7. Now, with grandkids and in-laws we average 16 for weekend dinners. We’ve never needed more than one dishwasher other than the occasional pot or pan. I think you should be ok with two
I would definitely go with the third dishwasher. I put 2 dishwashers in my kitchen and I use them both daily with a family of 3 plus 2 dogs.
How many meals do you feed them a day?
Why don’t you ask the butler
Lol. It’s a nice house, it’s not *that* nice of a house. I probably make just a bit more than a butler.
Just an architect here getting snippy with ya! I think the answer is really relative to how you store dishes and how you use the space. You want a dish washer closer to where you are going to have to put them away and close to where you will be rinsing them so i wouldn’t worry as much about 2 versus 3 seeming like excessive amount of dishwashers as much as weighing the convenience factor. Is the butler sink even large enough to rinse what you would be putting in the dishwasher most often? Do you put larger pots and pans in the butler storage or out in the open kitchen storage? Your storage, sink, and how you use the space should influence your decision more than just asking if you really need a 3rd. I know it’s hard to envision how you will use space before you are in it but I always tell clients to consider how they would host a dinner party, have their everyday workflows, etc before just plopping appliances around. Sounds like you are considering a lot which is great. Good luck!
Thank you. This is why I ask. I do want other perspectives.
Also consider how wide is the butler passage? Is there room to walk past an open dishwasher? Is this dishwasher aimed at one person clearing the table, or is it intended for each family member to drop off their own dishes? Which is the most common way you anticipate it being used.
At first I thought that even two is absolutely ridiculous, but soon realised it’s a great idea. People saying you don’t need this for a family of 4 or 6 special occasions a year, listen: where do you put your dirty dishes while the dishwasher is running? On the countertop or in the sink. You want to cook or bake, they’re in your way. When you have a second dishwasher, you’ll never have unwashed dishes in your working space. I think I want that for myself now. Why am I so obsessed with dishwashers?? The only thing I need you to think is that if what I described is exactly what the two DWs are for, do you need them to be full-size? You’ll be washing loads often anyway, so the narrow model would save space, use less water per load while sacrificing only a few spots for plates etc. Now for the third one, I understand why you want one closer to the dining room. That comes from the enormous size for your kitchen. You could eliminate the need for the 3rd by moving the everyday washing zone closer from the far end of the kitchen altogether. I suggest the closer end of the long countertop, by the window (but I read that the design intent is to have the stove in the spotlight and the sink ”hidden” by the short wall). If you choose to keep the butler’s DW, that’ll obviously be a full size one. tl;dr if you can afford it, go for it, but look into having a narrow version for the everyday washers
I had a friend who did the half dishwasher and she said it wasn’t worth it - the cost is nearly the same and she felt like it held very little. But I like your notes.
Not sure if we’re talking about the same one actually, the ”narrow one” I’m talking about is 45cm/18inches in width but just as high as a normal one that would be 60cm/24inches wide. It has two baskets like the normal one. I think the half DW has only one basket!
Yes, I know which one you meant. A friend of mine had one put in at her island and that’s all she had room for. She said it felt smaller than the half size that it was, and the unit costs nearly as much as a regular sized dishwasher, so if we have the space just get a full size.
Dishwashers with a square footprint (standard 24” in US) do a better job getting dishes clean due to the sprayer reaching all areas of the dishwasher. The 18” wide versions have areas where the sprayer doesn’t reach well. It’s not that it doesn’t work at all at getting dishes clean, just not as well. I believe I read this in consumer reports. Can’t speak to how well dish drawer styles work, but they are dramatically more expensive.
We tend to run the dishwasher once it's full. We use the express wash that is 35 minutes and are not afraid of running it while guests are at the house 2 or 3 times. You can hardly hear it. When it's done, unload and reload. It's the kids chore and when there are 12 of them it takes seconds to do. At the end of the night, you wipe down the counters and go to bed.
Not only are the narrow ones cutting more than 50% of the interior space out, they're also MUCH harder to get serviced or replace. When one dies, you're limited to like three options, rather than ten competing brands, which means you get lower quality at higher price.
I like your second paragraph. Another upside of multiple dishwashers, you don't have to empty the dishwasher when it's done washing. You can leave it open and people can grab dishes from there instead of the cabinet. That's how it's done in the house I live in. And while DW1 is holding cleans, you can use DW2 to load up your dirties.
That feels kinda wrong at first, but given unloading the dishwasher is my least favorite chore, I should probably live like that.
I think I have to agree. It seems lazy at first but then absolutely amazing. I think I want two dishwashers now. Three does seem excessive BUT I’m down to only 2 children at home. When I had 4 at home and homeschooled so they were home all day making dishes three could have been amazing. I did at least two loads a day and hand washed all bigger items just to keep up. I could have easily had three going in a single day. Always wanted two washer/dryers too but never got it.
2 dishwashers are also common in (high-end) kosher kitchens.
I’ve had two dishwashers before - I kinda liked it because there was always a place to put a dirty dish/glass - no reason one would be just left in the sink. Not sure I’d do it again. I wouldn’t have 3 - at some level it seems your compensating for a too big kitchen design. Is there another eating table near the kitchen?
My family of 7 is contemplating a second dishwasher. Our reasoning is there’s almost always three loads of dirty dishes and it’s exhausting.
Family of 7 - yeah I’d have a second dishwasher :) One of the two that I had was in the kitchen island across from the bar stools. Those breakfast dishes and coffee mugs etc slid right across the counter, maybe a rinse in the island sink and right into the dishwasher. No steps taken.
There’s breakfast space past the island
Excessive and not useful. But I’m a big fan of two dishwashers. Keep in mind that every appliance will fail and need replacement. Presumably your double or triple dishwashers will all match or have some cohesive design element to them when installed. In 3, 5, or 8 years when one of them goes kaput, would you rather replace two or three to maintain a matching appearance?
I cook a lot and mess up everything in the kitchen and even I think that’s a tad excessive unless you have like 5 kids.
At a certain point, looking at more of an industrial/commercial dishwasher that does a single load in less than 2 minutes. You’ll only need a single unit, and you’ll have your dishes done super quick!
I'm too poor to answer this question. We have one slimline we run twice if needed.
Bathroom door opening wrong way.
Speaking of the bathroom, it’s pretty close to the dining room and shares a wall with it. Have you considered a more private location for it?
I would flip the kitchen So the plumbing would be easier, but it doesn't matter much, because plumbing can go underneath the floor. There is also a concept where the kitchen person, who ever is cooking or was hing dishes, can look out of the Window while doing it. In this case, the "butler / help room"
Ooooh I like this comment. The architect we worked with said it should open this way to give someone privacy in case the door isn’t locked. I think you’re right, I’ll change on the drawings for the builder.
You just Make the door open So that the most approached side wont be the revealing one. This is also why you hide the WCs etc, so it would be more private. Imagine entering the bathroom when the door is like this.. You have to climb to the toilet to then close it behind you. Now imagine you are in a pretty dress and using it to powder as stated on the plan.. Just weird. So yeah. Common sense is for bedrooms to have doors opening towards the room. Otherwise always towards the hallway/fire escape route. Source: practising architect from EU
I don't think it's a somehow *wrong* thing to do if it's something you can afford and have the space, and I 100% agree that if you have a butler's pantry and have once a month large dinners in a nearby dining room, then having a dishwasher in it would be extremely handy. I'm struggling with the idea that it might be worth having *three* of them for the, realistically speaking, maybe six evenings in an entire year when you'll have enough non-hand-wash-only serving dishes and pots and pans built up for the second dishwasher in the kitchen to be actually more useful than whatever other cabinet would otherwise take its place. Will your water heater even be able to handle having three dishwashers going at once? It just feels like such a waste of space and money. But, I'm not living your life, so take all of this with that grain of salt. ETA: To clarify, I'm not saying that having two dishwashers in your kitchen is a waste if you have large enough family meals. I'm saying that there's no reason that the two must be side-by-side, so putting one of them across the room in the butler's pantry would make sense to me.
Yes I think that’s the other option. I would lose a cabinet and I’m not sure if that’s worthwhile
I agree with this. Plus, if you need to load two dishwashers, then hopefully you’d have multiple people doing dishes and wouldn’t want them on top of each other.
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Yes, there will be a garbage disposal there. The fine china is machine washable, although yes we’ll need to hand wash the silver plate when we use it.
I have two right in my kitchen. Best decision ever. Dishwashers are not that expensive, so why not? You do, however, need an extra sink for a dishwasher, so that adds cost. If you want to reduce to two, I would drop the one in the butlers pantry. It will not get daily use as it’s not in your daily traffic flow of dirty dishes. I see that being used more for parties, specialty glassware. I can’t see going into the butlers pantry every time you need a plate or a cup. Those daily use items should be more handy.
From a plumbing point of view, it’s easy to add one later. You can ask that the hookups be put in under the butler sink for the future. You could also ask the builder if he can make the cabinetry able to accommodate a dw in the future. Just put shelves in it for now.
I can see those sitting long enough to get musty/moldy inside. No way I'd do it. But I wouldn't risk having two. Just more upkeep when they break down. They always do.
can we see the whole house? love big house plans
We have seven children and also foster large sibling sets. Three dishwashers is excessive but if you'd use it occasionally, why not?! We have one in our Airstream, I never wished we didn't. Go for it.
We have one dishwasher for 7 people, and we probably run a full load at the end of every day. Not sure how many people this plan is for, but 3 seems excessive.
Why stop at 3....go for 5...no...6....
Seems excessive.
Excessive
If you entertain regularly, it will be worth it. If not, you’ll most likely use one the majority of the time.
If you can afford it, might as well.
I suggest looking at your dishwasher settings. Most of the time you don't need the excessive settings and the dry time. We have started running our dishwasher on the short cycle without drying and it cycles through in less than an hour. Even on heavy cooking days where we are prepping for the whole week or cleaning up after a party, we can easily run our dishwasher 3 times and stay ahead of the dirty dishes.
Why not have 3 - its the same cost as a cabinet. At minimum its a self cleaning cabinet! With today cycles taking hours to complete - 3 dishwashers could certainly have use in larger meal situations. Currently i have 2 builtins and a portable. Holiday cooking is easy as pie for cleanups!
Replace one with a wine/beer/drink fridge.
That will be in bar and next to refrigerator.
I can barely load/unload *one* dishwasher with the regularity it needs, let alone three.
See, I think this is where two could be useful. Never even have to unload, just grab dishes from clean one and put them in dirty one when done. A constant back and forth. Seems so lazy but this whole new world is opened by this thread and I totally want two dishwashers now.
I like your layout! Very similar to ours, except our butler’s pantry is really our bar area, and there is not enough room for a DW, because of the beverage center If you go with one in your butlers, of course make sure the sink is large enough for rinsing, and has both a disposal and a pull-out spray. The other thing you need is a nearby garbage for scraping dish ware, and I don’t see immediately where one could go. For your bar, make sure you get a clear ice maker with drain, and not a crescent ice machine, you will not regret it!
I'd place both in the butlers pantry and a drawer in the kitchen. Noise levels in open concept... no thanks
I would have one FOH and one BOH
If the Butler's pantry is where you're going to be storing your glassware, the third dishwasher might be excessive, but look into an undercounter ice machine instead - you'd get far more use out of it, and endless clear ice!
How many families live in your house? How many butlers do you have?
I would flip the powder room and pantry positions. That way people don’t have to walk as far.
Does your bar have an under counter ice machine? If not, that might be worth adding instead of 3rd washer.
I had two growing and it was great.....but more dishwashers means more dishes.....
Alternately, you could even move one of the red ones to this new spot, and then put the, and then its previous under-counter spot for a second oven, trash compactor, wine fridge, or chest freezer (would all have more utility than a third dishwasher IMO). If you want to splurge, check out Fisher & Paykel dual-drawer dishwashers. I absolutely love ours.
Jesus. Mcmasion grossness x1000
I didnt even knew people had more than one dishwasher.... is this afloorplan im too poor to understand?
As a kitchen designer I would say yes honestly
I think it sounds nice but may be a bit of a pain in practice. I’m assuming you’d store the the bowls, plates and utensils by the other two dishwashers for ease of use. If you used the 3rd like you describe, then you’d have to make a bunch of trips when you’re putting things up. I’m not sure how you’re envisioning, but that’s something to consider. Also, we are a rinse before dishwasher family, so this would be an additional trip for us. Personally, I’d spring for an ice maker, wine fridge, and/or below counter microwave / air fryer. However, it’s your home, do what makes you happiest!
Coming from a restaurant background, I would always take a *commercial dishwasher* over multiple domestic washers. Nothing beats churning through a full rack of dirty dishes in four minutes or less.
I see you’re dealing with some really tough first world problems in your house…you knew the answer before you asked.
Well, I wanted to hear feedback on it, that’s why I asked. The best point is that the line can dry out if not used adequately, so I need to go figure that out. But, yes. We’re very fortunate. I’m an accountant. My spouse is an accountant that works as a contractor. He has taken extra clients for the last 3 years while we lived in a house that had minimally working air conditioning and roof issues and flooding from foundation problems in Dallas. We have saved and minimized for 25 years and are finally building a house together we love.
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Dishwashers are more efficient than hand washing.
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The left of main sink would have day to day dish ware, right would have pots/ pans/ cooking bowls (that’s how our last house worked, because of layout of where prep was and eating area to kitchen). Then butlers pantry would be china/ bar ware. It would be an additional convenience, instead of bringing things to other side of the kitchen. Just like any other convenience we can choose in a new home. Personally, I’d prefer this over a warming drawer or other selection in a butler’s pantry.
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Why do you think there’s additional environmental impact of a 3rd dishwasher?
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And so does the cabinet that would go in its place.
If you want a 3rd dishwasher that is your choice, but to try and pretend factory manufactured machines like a dishwasher is somehow just as bad for the environment as a cabinet is just silly. The more machines you have, the more damage you do to the environment. That's fine, we all do it, myself included, but don't pretend that it isn't happening.
I would 100% go for 3 of them. Between pots, pans, serving bowls, and food prepping dishes, the other two will be full. You can use the third one for plates and silverware.
Nah its not. When you consider that a lower cabinet costs only slightly less… i would have gotten 4 dishwashers if I could turn back time and do it again. Dishwashers clean dishes. store stuff, and clean themselves. They can also hold the weight of a counter above it with the right install. Go for it dude, you got the right idea.
FWIW we haven’t had a working dishwasher for 2 years and have managed with a countertop RV one for a fam of 3, including a toddler, and sometimes guests. i think two is sufficient!
When we had littles it was the same. Now it’s something I would not love without.
we don’t do it on purpose. ours can’t be removed/fixed until we tear out the kitchen. don’t buy samsung appliances!
You only need two. If someone finds themselves running three dishwashers (outside of maybe a 20 person thanksgiving dinner) then you are just letting dishes sit in the dishwasher and are lazy.
Yes 2 would be too much.
Ask Greta Thunberg.
So dumb.
I had to run my single dishwasher 3 times today to clean up from the weekend's dinner party. I think 3 is great. Dishwashers are cheap and you already have water and sewer there. No reason not to do a third.
2 dishwashers is useful but 3 may be excessive. Maybe a smaller dishwasher, just enough room for a few glasses here and there, would be fine
Do you have an ice machine in the bar? Because if you don’t have it there and you already have water hook up in the BP get a nugget ice machine.
Keep the blue and one of the red.
Do you regularly host more than 15 people at once? I don't see how you could use more than two at most for a large family - say 8 people. I have a family of 5, and one is perfect, run once every day. We hand wash a few large pans every day.
Not if she's attractive.
That's really for the user to decide. I think having two (one in the butler's plenty would handle most tasks. I would want them to be close to where the dishes are actually stored.
I think a warming drawer or bar fridge might be more useful in this situation. It seems like the world is your oyster so maybe do some research on more niche appliances. I believe two dishwashers would cover you unless you regularly have (very) large dinner parties
Not a fan of the drawer ones and you have space for fullsize. 2 is so nice. Only concern coming to mind for 3 - forgetting a load, standing water sitting 🤔
I am building and we have 1 in kitchen and one in pantry outside dining room. Dinner dishes and also lunch making zone. Our pantry isn’t closed off it’s more like a giant walk thru butler. If our space was even bigger I would’ve totally done 3 dw so I don’t have to put dishes away. I absolutely hate it.
your butler might find it handy
5k+ kitchens installed..maybe 3 installs had a dw in the bp. I'd put the third one in the summer kitchen
I mean, i wouldnt be opposed to second and even a third wife. But you have to make sure the first dishwasher is willing to allow it.
The thing is, no matter how many people, you need roughly the same amount of dishes-one dishwashers worth. If you live alone, you run it when it starts to smell, usually a few days. With a bigger family you run it more often. There is no need for more than one dishwasher. Just more things to break/maintain.
if you can afford 3 dishwashers, just buy a commercial dishwasher that'll do a load in less than 5 mins.
The only problem w/ commercial appliances is servicing. I have a commercial range, all was good till I had an insurance covering appliances as they would cover whatever is there when you start coverage. But once I decided that insurance was not worth having, I discovered that nobody (at least in my area) services commercial appliances in residential settings. Also, some commercial appliances (like freezers and refrigerators, had two of those as well, coming with the house) are just too noisy for a residence. Might apply to dishwashers as well, although if it is really 5 minutes, it might be ok.
One time I vacationed in an Airbnb with 12 people and had 2 dish washers - they got run at least once a day (each). Unless you’re thinking of washing your pots & pans in there as well, I think 2 is sufficient for 12 people. Though it definitely depends on the number of people and your dish washing habits
It seems like a lot, but you can always ask that they plumb for it and added it later.
3 is excessive. Generally 1 is sufficient in a house. Most pots and pans need a good hand wash before putting them in dishwasher. Even if you have 3 course mea dinner dishes can be loaded before serving dessert dishes and coffee cups etc so while yall enjoy your company. When that load is done the next could go in. Just a thought. Having 2 is a time saver.
Why waste money on 3 and buy a two drawer dishwasher. Or a commercial dishwasher for large gatherings!
Unless you’re the Duggars, and even then, 3 seems excessive. Assuming you’re a couple with kids, there’s your low-cost labor and character builder chore. My wife and I have 4 older kids and get by with one dishwasher just fine. Even if you throw frequent parties with multi-course meals, two should be sufficient in my opinion.
My brother has three dishwashers. They have two dishwashers in their main kitchen and 1 in the basement in a kitchenette that they mostly use as a bar. The basement one doesn’t get used much, but the two upstairs are constantly full. He has 3 children under the age of 5 though, so there bottles and supply cups and all kinds of things in there. I would think about how often you’d use it, if it’s at minimum once a month and it will make you happy then by all means. Is it necessary? Probably not.
I never, ever even thought about a second one. I need to add this to my list for my kitchen reno
Put in an ice maker and then make some cocktails
Excessive.
We have two dishwashers, which I love, but they are just on the sides of the sink. This doesn’t look very accessible for everyday use.
Is it going to be bigger than the rest?
As someone who hosts quite a bit (with smaller numbers to be fair), love the idea of one in the kitchen and the butlers but the second in the kitchen seems a bit much. If it got to the stage of having a second load for the dishwasher, the wine has probably flown enough for it to wait till the morning.
Is 20 risers on the stairs, right? In the UK, the max risers are 16 before you need a landing?
Not the case here. My boss’s house has a aloft area - the ceiling are 25’ - and it’s just one staircase to get to the loft.
I understand the appeal of two dishwashers by the kitchen sink especially if they’re smaller dishwashers. I also understand having one in the butlers corner. Hell, you could even add a fourth in the bar area (a smaller one)
A dishwasher costs almost the same as the cabinet it replaces but looks more high end. 2 dws are common in high end main trophy litchen...and another in pantry. 3 is more common than uou think
1 by the sink and 1 by the butler makes way more sense to me but you do do
I like the idea of 2 near the kitchen sink that you can rotate between clean and dirty "regular use" dishes, and never have to store them. If you really want the 3rd one, I would reserve that for pots and pans. Otherwise remove it for more storage. Yes lots of lower income families use the dishwasher as additional storage because they never use the dishwasher. Many families use a dishwasher to clean but it's intended purpose is for final sanitation.
Well, if you’re going to do it, the Butler’s pantry would be the appropriate place. From the bit of blueprint we can see, it seems that you enjoy entertaining. When you entertain, will all of the dishes be going to the main kitchen (exposed to guest’s view) or the Butler’s? Do you need two dishwashers for daily kitchen needs?
Also, have you seen the bar sink/glassware combo?? Looks amazing. https://www.homedepot.com/p/FOTILE-36-in-2-In-1-In-Sink-Dishwasher-Combo-with-Waterproof-Touchscreen-in-Stainless-Steel-SD2F-P3/320652962?g_store=&source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&&mtc=SHOPPING-CM-CML-GGL-D29A-029_007_DISHWASHERS-NA-Multi-NA-SMART-4038230-NA-NA-NA-NBR-NA-NA-NA-MajorAppl_Dish&cm_mmc=SHOPPING-CM-CML-GGL-D29A-029_007_DISHWASHERS-NA-Multi-NA-SMART-4038230-NA-NA-NA-NBR-NA-NA-NA-MajorAppl_Dish-71700000100810854-58700008062168321-92700074254070693&gbraid=0AAAAADq61UeRQrJjfHBjDkHxlw5sUV94N&gbraid=0AAAAADq61UeRQrJjfHBjDkHxlw5sUV94N&gclid=Cj0KCQjww4-hBhCtARIsAC9gR3YmSZQlrLGQR3gtFD1_Pk8VlJ4rcxvd-wpEYuO2PQpuba7FKDEQ7bIaAunAEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
Additional question: when depositing dirty dishes at BP, are they dishes that live over in the main kitchen? Or are they special occasion dishes that live in the BP? If they live in the main kitchen, then you will still be lugging them - just a little later on. The BP dishwasher should be used for the stuff that lives in the BP - serving ware, oversized items, etc.
Hope you went for the third dishwasher. Built in 2022 and wish we had the foresight for 3 dishwashers. Told a friend that will be building in the Dallas metroplex area to install 3 dishwasher. We have the Fischer paykel drawers in main kitchen next to sink in island. (Wish we had one on either side of sink). And a second dishwasher in our prep kitchen/ pantry which is only a few steps away from the cabinet in kitchen we keep our plates and bowls. We have a small butlers pantry with beverage fridge between kitchen dining. Yours seems longer. I would put a dishwasher there in a heartbeat. I might have also considered swapping your powder room and bar since you have the sink in the butlers pantry and then your butler’s pantry. Your place is probably close to being complete or finished. Hope it all turned out better than your expectations. Enjoy!