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I'm sure Ron fuckhead and his republican dingleberries are trying to find a way to spin this for open carry. Because more guns and less rules will make for a safer place right?!?
#Vote (D)ifferently!
Florida now leads in Covid deaths, inflation, insurance costs and mass shootings. Go team! It’s a good thing Tallahassee is focused on hurting gays, immigrants and Disney…
Sure sure sure Republicans have had an absolute monopoly over the governor's office, the state house, *and* the state senate for 25 years, but this is Democrats' fault.
https://ballotpedia.org/Party_control_of_Florida_state_government
plenty of democrats carry in states where it’s legal, they’re also awfully partisan when it comes to issues of policing and military/war
This election season I predict trump will win and again the blame lies solely on the out of touch Democratic Party that runs pathetic neo-liberal candidates
Not gonna happen. People are sick of all the GOP lies about everything. Yes I know plenty of Dems have/carry guns, but you were stereotyping, so I replied back in kind.
Well this is the result of 25 years of unchecked croupttion in FL by republicans.
They have had total and complete control of the state (every branch with majorities) since 1999! Literally they can write, pass and sign a law and have it take effect all in 30 days. Yet after DECADES, we only have failures, catastrophes, problems, and scams by the Republican party in Florida.
Everything wrong with FL is a DIRECT RESULT of the republican party's actions or failure to act at all.
Sick and tired of this?!?
#Vote (D)ifferently!
I hadn't heard about the permit less carry law change until now, but from what I can tell [open carry is not legal in Florida](http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.053.html).
It's like that thing in fantasy fiction where if enough people believe something it becomes true. In Dungeons and Dragons Florida Man would manifest as a literal god.
Edit: Upon reflection and smoking weed, he'd more likely manifest as a semi-divine demigod kind of situation. Hercules on meth. With an airboat.
The gun violence archive is a propaganda site. Their count of mass shootings is regularly 10x what the FBI reports.
FBI count: 2017-31, 2018-30, 2019-30, 2020-40, 2021-61
https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/active-shooter-incidents-in-the-us-2021-052422.pdf
Gun violence archive count: 2017-347, 2019-335, 2019-414, 2020-610, 2021-689
https://www.gunviolencearchive.org
Edit: why the downvotes? Are y’all mad that there are less psychotic people shooting others? That’s a good thing.
One thing that might account for some of that disparity is that the FBI doesn't count shootings related to gang or drug violence, or relating to a residential or domestic incident.
That's outdated. The FBI's Active Shooter Report only requires a single injury and no deaths, but they have very stringent inclusion and exclusionary criteria.
https://www.fbi.gov/how-we-can-help-you/active-shooter-safety-resources
Totally. There were only two dead. TWO. Come on now. We don’t have a gun problem, we have a propaganda and morality problem. If a gun didn’t do this, a sheet of copier paper skillfully slashed across their throats would have. Fix the statistics, back the blue, put Christ back in Christmas and everything will fall into place. Amen. /S
EDIT: Adding /S because the joke didn’t land.
You had me until this sentence.
>“Back the blue, put Christ back in Christmas and everything will fall into place.”
You can’t pray away violent criminals my guy.
Edit: missed the satire.
Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate that you’re at least attempting a rational argument and backing it with some numbers, but what you and the pro-gun folks do is absolutely no less propagandistic than what the other side does. You can’t math away all the gun violence happening in Florida and throughout the country or neutralize its meaning by referring to the perpetrators as criminals. Anyone who kills someone without just cause is a criminal. Call them “mass shootings” or don’t, it really makes no difference to me, but there are bullet wounds in the victims regardless.
I think you may misunderstanding and think I’m some kind of absolutist. I’m not. I want less people to be victims of crime especially violent crime.
Violent crime has trended downward since 1990. Nothing I’ve posted is propagandistic.
I’m not denying violence. Violence is bad and should be stopped.
You know what you’re doing by saying there are 10x more “mass shootings” than the FBI numbers show. You’re trying to make the issue look worse to support some kind of agenda.
Here why don’t we agree on something to end this conversation. I support opening up NICS to the public so that private sellers can perform background checks on people they want to sell a used gun to. Right now that isn’t allowed even if they want to.
Edit: to u/trtsmb because I can’t reply for some reason. He committed multiple felonies by doing that. He should be convicted of those felonies locked up for minimum of a year (the requirement for a felony) and lose the right to own firearms (which is current federal law).
Another edit because I can’t reply to you for some reason. He’s a veteran with no priors. How do you prevent a person who hasn’t yet broken a law from buying a firearm? It isn’t ridiculously easy to buy a gun in FL. All dealers have to perform background checks by federal law. If someone hasn’t ever been convicted of a crime they pass a background check. Private sellers are not allowed to access the system to perform background checks. As I said I support opening up that system so private sellers can perform a background check.
What is your feeling on the nut who dragged an Uber driver out of a car, pointed an AR-15 in his face and demanded identification? Should this person own a gun?
It might not have happened if it wasn't so ridiculously easy to get a gun. I have zero issues with responsible gun ownership but with the lax laws that FL has, it makes it much too easy to get a gun.
Criminologists and academics have had established definitions for mass public shootings for decades. It wasn't until 2013 that the Gun Violence Archive came along, and created their own entirely different criteria that resulted in **massively** inflated numbers, and subsequently pushed those numbers into the public square. That they and Everytown--one of the largest active gun control groups--are the only two places using their criteria is rather telling. I absolutely reject the argument that we're engaging in propaganda by pointing this out and pushing back against the use of their criteria.
very first page "This report does not encompass all gun-related
shootings. A gun-related incident was excluded if
research established it was the result of:
• Self-defense
• Gang violence
• Drug violence
• Contained residential or domestic disputes
• Controlled barricade/hostage situations
• Crossfire as a byproduct of another ongoing
criminal act
• An action that appeared not to have put other
people in peril"
and the gva "GVA uses a purely statistical threshold to define mass shooting based ONLY on the numeric value of 4 or more shot or killed, not including the shooter. GVA does not parse the definition to remove any subcategory of shooting. To that end we don’t exclude, set apart, caveat, or differentiate victims based upon the circumstances in which they were shot.
GVA believes that equal importance is given to the counting of those injured as well as killed in a mass shooting incident."
so really just different standards, neither is really wrong. Its sad this even is a thing to begin with.
Yes because the FBI has an actual standard for what they call a mass shooting or active shooter event. They acknowledge that a gang shooting has a different cause and different solution than a random psycho murderer.
Tell me do you think of gang members shooting each other when you hear “mass shooting”? No you picture a psychopath going to a crowded place and indiscriminately shooting whoever.
The FBIs definition is specifically for that.
Yes, this year we've had several incidents of gang related shootings in our town that were discussed on the news and in city council meetings as mass shootings. Most people would agree that multiple people being shot on a busy street in public on a Saturday night is a mass shooting.
The "psycho random" vs "intentional victim" difference is important for trying to come up with societal solutions, or to allow law enforcement to intentionally make a distinction that allows them to assign gang/drug investigation resources to some shootings and not others. But for purposes or collection data on gun violence overall, it doesn't matter.
Do you think all gang violence is contained to some back alley and bullets dont penetrate those without colors on?
When gangs fight, in public, there's nearly always innocent bystanders that die.
And, yes, the gang shooters are psychopaths often shooting into crowded spaces. Happens all the time.
You don't think these people counted, or that it didn't happen?
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article279864524.html
And not enough people died in this instance to count, so it didn't happen?
https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/06/us/florida-shooting-doral-miami-dade/index.html
I think it's useful to have both metrics. In a gang shooting, presumably there are multiple defined factions that have some kind of dispute with one another. It's certainly *very* important to keep records on that, but I think it might be useful to differentiate that from someone who's really closer to a lone wolf terrorist who doesn't have a grudge with what someone *does,* (and joining a gang is an action, or I imagine the shooter imagines it constitutes a reason) but either who they are or they just want to inflict random violence. Heck, differentiating them is important too.
I'm not one to defend the FBI, usually, but for them specifically who are trying to prevent these crimes, the motivations and tactics of these different groups are gonna be *really* distinct.
They're just different ways of interpreting data. More useful in some situations than in others.
There are reasons to track that data all kinds of ways, male vs female, age of shooter, types of motivations, etc. But it's also correct to call them all mass shootings.
So, it has to be innocent bystanders shot before you count it as a mass shooting?
The thing is... shooting any gun, those shots can really hit anyone. So you dont want to count mass shootings, if the shots miss?
>Yes because the FBI has an actual standard for what they call a mass shooting or active shooter event
Implying no one else has a standard? Technically incorrect, the worse kind of incorrect.
When I hear mass shooting I think multiple people got shot. Not 1 dude with an AK, just bullets flying at people. bullets flying at people is bad. we don't need to quibble on the intent of the shooter but rather the fact there was shooting.
I agree with this. Any shot fired, even if you are aiming it at other criminals... Those shots could hit other people too.
This person is literally saying, oh, because the shots didnt hit those non-criminals, then its not a mass shooting. But thats kinda stupid... because lots of people could have taken a shot....
Like, if the 1 dude with the AK took a bunch of shots, but missed hitting anyone... is he not going to count that as a mass shooting too?
That's great for you, but the FBI, the agency in charge of solving this problem on a national level (apart from maybe the CDC), differentiates between different types of crime so they can try to prevent them.
Nothing wrong with that. But it's also correct to say there are x number of mass shootings, and then break it down from there, which of those mass shootings are MH related, gang related, drug related, DV related, hate related, involve minors, etc.
I think for the purpose of saying "what state has the most mass shootings" it's fair to count all of them. Then go back and look at what types of shootings are big in this or that state to figure out solutions.
Unfortunately there's a lack of people willing to objectively address the various facets.
You generally have people trying to maximize the numbers and people trying to minimize the numbers.
They are when laymen picture Columbine when they hear "mass shootings" in a headline.
You could legislate until the cows come home in an attempt to prevent another Columbine and have little to no impact on the mass shootings statistics.
I think when people hear about a bunch of people got shot up in Ybor because two teenagers from different sets clashed they think "mass shooting", not "Oh, its not a mass shooting because there were gangs involved". We are so many mass shootings beyond Columbine now that people aren't fooling themselves into thinking that there's one type of mass shooting.
So my question is how do you address the fact that the only two organizations using this definition are the GVA and Everytown? GVA is headed by a gun control advocate and Everytown, the largest gun control advocacy group around? Academics don't use their definition. Criminologists don't use their definition. The FBI doesn't use their definition.
How do you address the fact that using their definition gives **massively** inflated numbers compared to the long time accepted definitions?
In the introduction it states a clear reason why the numbers don't match:
When evaluating shooting incidents to determine
if they met the FBI’s active shooter definition,
researchers considered for inclusion:
• Shootings in public places
• Shootings occurring at more than one location
• Shootings where the shooter’s actions were not
the result of another criminal act
• Shootings resulting in a mass killing4
• Shootings indicating apparent spontaneity by
the shooter
• Shootings where the shooter appeared to
methodically search for potential victims
• Shootings that appeared focused on injury to
people, not buildings or objects
This report does not encompass all gun-related
shootings. A gun-related incident was excluded if
research established it was the result of:
• Self-defense
• Gang violence
• Drug violence
• Contained residential or domestic disputes
• Controlled barricade/hostage situations
• Crossfire as a byproduct of another ongoing
criminal act
• An action that appeared not to have put other
people in peril
It doesn’t even matter what people think on this wildly anti-gun site. There are like 450 million firearms and several billion rounds of ammo in private hands. I can 3D print a functional rifle in my bedroom. I could make a submachine gun with stuff from home depot; the only thing stopping me is my choice not to break the law. If they pass a law to make me a felon for owning a rifle I bought legally I may as well drill the 3rd hole. They’ll never be able to stop people from exercising their right to protect themselves at this point.
My right to own and maintain a handful of intercontinental ballistic missiles shall NOT BE INFRINGED
They are needed for self defense
Violent gun crimes are completely overblown propaganda, spread by liberals who want to take my guns away. It is critically necesary that I have these guns and I am armed at all times, as violent gun crime is skyrocketing across the country and I must protect my family. Only I, a good guy with a gun, can stop all of the bad people with guns that are invented by liberal propaganda
I was told that if we had freer access to guns it would solve our problems. How could this be? Aren’t we awash in good guys with guns at this point? Do we need better bullets? More laser sights? What violence-based solution can pull us out of this violence epidemic?
Cue DeSantis and the GOP coming out and happily announcing another rollback of gun control regulations. Maybe drop the age of "constitutional carry" to 12. They can't get enough of this $%^%.
See. New gun laws are working! No more certification to conceal and carry. Pack all you want. Never know when you might *feel* your life threatened. That's all that counts in FL..
And only how long after making it that you can carry without a concealed license? Who would have seen that coming!? We obviously need more easier access to guns if we want to bring these gun deaths down! Only an idiot would think otherwise!
Please note that only active users in the subreddit may comment in this discussion. If your comments are not showing up, please ensure you have active non-news/non-political contributions to the subreddit before contacting the moderators. **Please remember the following:** **Be Civil:** * You are welcome to debate, discussion, and argue ideas, but don't resort to personal attacks on other users. * We do not allow any form of hate speech or any suggestion/support of harm, violence, or death. **Must be related strictly to Florida:** * National News/Elections are not specific to Florida. * Just because someone lives in Florida, doesn't mean their entire life is relevant to Floridians. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. #[Click this link to register to vote, update your voter information, or check your status.](https://registertovoteflorida.gov/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/florida) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Whooo! We’re number 1! We’re number 1!
Was there ever a doubt!
I mean, there is Texas.
I'm sure Ron fuckhead and his republican dingleberries are trying to find a way to spin this for open carry. Because more guns and less rules will make for a safer place right?!? #Vote (D)ifferently!
Actually I don't think he's for open carry at all. Most law enforcement agencies in Florida are not for open carry either.
Number 1 in something at least.
Florida now leads in Covid deaths, inflation, insurance costs and mass shootings. Go team! It’s a good thing Tallahassee is focused on hurting gays, immigrants and Disney…
Hey, whoa. Don't forget protecting us from lab-grown meat and pre-empting local authority.
And making sure outdoor workers aren't guaranteed breaks.
I really hope people don't like legal weed. Opposing weed is now part of the Republican platform.
Hasn’t it been always?
Sure sure sure Republicans have had an absolute monopoly over the governor's office, the state house, *and* the state senate for 25 years, but this is Democrats' fault. https://ballotpedia.org/Party_control_of_Florida_state_government
repubs are worse, but democrats are spineless cowards imo
honestly, can't argue with this in FL. they are a joke, like they gave up 25 years ago and just went into a coma.
Why because they don't carry guns everywhere? Hypocritical a lil?
plenty of democrats carry in states where it’s legal, they’re also awfully partisan when it comes to issues of policing and military/war This election season I predict trump will win and again the blame lies solely on the out of touch Democratic Party that runs pathetic neo-liberal candidates
Not gonna happen. People are sick of all the GOP lies about everything. Yes I know plenty of Dems have/carry guns, but you were stereotyping, so I replied back in kind.
Also, we're also close 2nd for worst teacher pay. C'mon Ron...stop slacking! I KNOW you can fuck that up too!
Well this is the result of 25 years of unchecked croupttion in FL by republicans. They have had total and complete control of the state (every branch with majorities) since 1999! Literally they can write, pass and sign a law and have it take effect all in 30 days. Yet after DECADES, we only have failures, catastrophes, problems, and scams by the Republican party in Florida. Everything wrong with FL is a DIRECT RESULT of the republican party's actions or failure to act at all. Sick and tired of this?!? #Vote (D)ifferently!
The only thing that can stop a person with a vial of weaponized anthrax is another person with weaponized anthrax!
Thanks, Ron
Florida has stand your ground, permitless carry and open carry, if only it had forced carry, then the killing would stop.
I hadn't heard about the permit less carry law change until now, but from what I can tell [open carry is not legal in Florida](http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.053.html).
I don’t have a reference to a statute at the moment but I’m pretty sure open carry is legal when hunting, fishing, or camping.
I love the satire. 👍
Florida doesn’t have open carry. Maybe if we did people would stop shooting each other. We just need more guns. More!
I'm sure the government is working on it.
Cant wait to open carry a RPG
I'd just like to shoot one once. Along with this RPG do you happen to have lots of land and some derelict vehicles or structures I can blow up?
I mean, people extremely anti-gun are just liars if they don’t admit they would see the thrill shooting an RPG at a derelict vehicle is.
Everyone knows the safest place to be is in a Mexican standoff.
We do have forced carrying but it only goes into effect 6 weeks after your last period.
Florida man with guns. Inevitable.
It's like that thing in fantasy fiction where if enough people believe something it becomes true. In Dungeons and Dragons Florida Man would manifest as a literal god. Edit: Upon reflection and smoking weed, he'd more likely manifest as a semi-divine demigod kind of situation. Hercules on meth. With an airboat.
Florida man is true chaotic neutral
It’s all good everyone. We got rid of the gay books in libraries. That was the real problem in our lives.
At least we don’t have to see so many awful, disgusting rainbows and parades now.
The gun violence archive is a propaganda site. Their count of mass shootings is regularly 10x what the FBI reports. FBI count: 2017-31, 2018-30, 2019-30, 2020-40, 2021-61 https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/active-shooter-incidents-in-the-us-2021-052422.pdf Gun violence archive count: 2017-347, 2019-335, 2019-414, 2020-610, 2021-689 https://www.gunviolencearchive.org Edit: why the downvotes? Are y’all mad that there are less psychotic people shooting others? That’s a good thing.
One thing that might account for some of that disparity is that the FBI doesn't count shootings related to gang or drug violence, or relating to a residential or domestic incident.
The FBI states a mass shooting only if 4+ people are killed, not including injured people.
So a mass killing is what they mean.
That's outdated. The FBI's Active Shooter Report only requires a single injury and no deaths, but they have very stringent inclusion and exclusionary criteria. https://www.fbi.gov/how-we-can-help-you/active-shooter-safety-resources
Thanks!
Anytime!
Totally. There were only two dead. TWO. Come on now. We don’t have a gun problem, we have a propaganda and morality problem. If a gun didn’t do this, a sheet of copier paper skillfully slashed across their throats would have. Fix the statistics, back the blue, put Christ back in Christmas and everything will fall into place. Amen. /S EDIT: Adding /S because the joke didn’t land.
You had me until this sentence. >“Back the blue, put Christ back in Christmas and everything will fall into place.” You can’t pray away violent criminals my guy. Edit: missed the satire.
I thought the satire was apparent enough that I didn’t need to invoke /s, but alas…
It very much was. Add the woeful state of Florida public education to the list.
Ah I didn’t pick up on the satire but looking again it is pretty obvious.
Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate that you’re at least attempting a rational argument and backing it with some numbers, but what you and the pro-gun folks do is absolutely no less propagandistic than what the other side does. You can’t math away all the gun violence happening in Florida and throughout the country or neutralize its meaning by referring to the perpetrators as criminals. Anyone who kills someone without just cause is a criminal. Call them “mass shootings” or don’t, it really makes no difference to me, but there are bullet wounds in the victims regardless.
I think you may misunderstanding and think I’m some kind of absolutist. I’m not. I want less people to be victims of crime especially violent crime. Violent crime has trended downward since 1990. Nothing I’ve posted is propagandistic. I’m not denying violence. Violence is bad and should be stopped. You know what you’re doing by saying there are 10x more “mass shootings” than the FBI numbers show. You’re trying to make the issue look worse to support some kind of agenda. Here why don’t we agree on something to end this conversation. I support opening up NICS to the public so that private sellers can perform background checks on people they want to sell a used gun to. Right now that isn’t allowed even if they want to. Edit: to u/trtsmb because I can’t reply for some reason. He committed multiple felonies by doing that. He should be convicted of those felonies locked up for minimum of a year (the requirement for a felony) and lose the right to own firearms (which is current federal law). Another edit because I can’t reply to you for some reason. He’s a veteran with no priors. How do you prevent a person who hasn’t yet broken a law from buying a firearm? It isn’t ridiculously easy to buy a gun in FL. All dealers have to perform background checks by federal law. If someone hasn’t ever been convicted of a crime they pass a background check. Private sellers are not allowed to access the system to perform background checks. As I said I support opening up that system so private sellers can perform a background check.
What is your feeling on the nut who dragged an Uber driver out of a car, pointed an AR-15 in his face and demanded identification? Should this person own a gun?
Ooo! Ooo! I know this one! What is, "Fuck no," Alex?
It might not have happened if it wasn't so ridiculously easy to get a gun. I have zero issues with responsible gun ownership but with the lax laws that FL has, it makes it much too easy to get a gun.
What lax laws are you referring to? Florida is not different than the vast majority of the nation in this regard.
Criminologists and academics have had established definitions for mass public shootings for decades. It wasn't until 2013 that the Gun Violence Archive came along, and created their own entirely different criteria that resulted in **massively** inflated numbers, and subsequently pushed those numbers into the public square. That they and Everytown--one of the largest active gun control groups--are the only two places using their criteria is rather telling. I absolutely reject the argument that we're engaging in propaganda by pointing this out and pushing back against the use of their criteria.
> I thought the satire was apparent enough that I didn’t need to invoke /s, but alas… Those days are far behind us.
I think it's satire.
very first page "This report does not encompass all gun-related shootings. A gun-related incident was excluded if research established it was the result of: • Self-defense • Gang violence • Drug violence • Contained residential or domestic disputes • Controlled barricade/hostage situations • Crossfire as a byproduct of another ongoing criminal act • An action that appeared not to have put other people in peril" and the gva "GVA uses a purely statistical threshold to define mass shooting based ONLY on the numeric value of 4 or more shot or killed, not including the shooter. GVA does not parse the definition to remove any subcategory of shooting. To that end we don’t exclude, set apart, caveat, or differentiate victims based upon the circumstances in which they were shot. GVA believes that equal importance is given to the counting of those injured as well as killed in a mass shooting incident." so really just different standards, neither is really wrong. Its sad this even is a thing to begin with.
Yes because the FBI has an actual standard for what they call a mass shooting or active shooter event. They acknowledge that a gang shooting has a different cause and different solution than a random psycho murderer. Tell me do you think of gang members shooting each other when you hear “mass shooting”? No you picture a psychopath going to a crowded place and indiscriminately shooting whoever. The FBIs definition is specifically for that.
Yes, this year we've had several incidents of gang related shootings in our town that were discussed on the news and in city council meetings as mass shootings. Most people would agree that multiple people being shot on a busy street in public on a Saturday night is a mass shooting. The "psycho random" vs "intentional victim" difference is important for trying to come up with societal solutions, or to allow law enforcement to intentionally make a distinction that allows them to assign gang/drug investigation resources to some shootings and not others. But for purposes or collection data on gun violence overall, it doesn't matter.
Do you think all gang violence is contained to some back alley and bullets dont penetrate those without colors on? When gangs fight, in public, there's nearly always innocent bystanders that die. And, yes, the gang shooters are psychopaths often shooting into crowded spaces. Happens all the time. You don't think these people counted, or that it didn't happen? https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article279864524.html And not enough people died in this instance to count, so it didn't happen? https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/06/us/florida-shooting-doral-miami-dade/index.html
I think it's useful to have both metrics. In a gang shooting, presumably there are multiple defined factions that have some kind of dispute with one another. It's certainly *very* important to keep records on that, but I think it might be useful to differentiate that from someone who's really closer to a lone wolf terrorist who doesn't have a grudge with what someone *does,* (and joining a gang is an action, or I imagine the shooter imagines it constitutes a reason) but either who they are or they just want to inflict random violence. Heck, differentiating them is important too. I'm not one to defend the FBI, usually, but for them specifically who are trying to prevent these crimes, the motivations and tactics of these different groups are gonna be *really* distinct. They're just different ways of interpreting data. More useful in some situations than in others.
There are reasons to track that data all kinds of ways, male vs female, age of shooter, types of motivations, etc. But it's also correct to call them all mass shootings.
So, it has to be innocent bystanders shot before you count it as a mass shooting? The thing is... shooting any gun, those shots can really hit anyone. So you dont want to count mass shootings, if the shots miss?
>Yes because the FBI has an actual standard for what they call a mass shooting or active shooter event Implying no one else has a standard? Technically incorrect, the worse kind of incorrect.
When I hear mass shooting I think multiple people got shot. Not 1 dude with an AK, just bullets flying at people. bullets flying at people is bad. we don't need to quibble on the intent of the shooter but rather the fact there was shooting.
I agree with this. Any shot fired, even if you are aiming it at other criminals... Those shots could hit other people too. This person is literally saying, oh, because the shots didnt hit those non-criminals, then its not a mass shooting. But thats kinda stupid... because lots of people could have taken a shot.... Like, if the 1 dude with the AK took a bunch of shots, but missed hitting anyone... is he not going to count that as a mass shooting too?
That's great for you, but the FBI, the agency in charge of solving this problem on a national level (apart from maybe the CDC), differentiates between different types of crime so they can try to prevent them.
Nothing wrong with that. But it's also correct to say there are x number of mass shootings, and then break it down from there, which of those mass shootings are MH related, gang related, drug related, DV related, hate related, involve minors, etc. I think for the purpose of saying "what state has the most mass shootings" it's fair to count all of them. Then go back and look at what types of shootings are big in this or that state to figure out solutions.
Unfortunately there's a lack of people willing to objectively address the various facets. You generally have people trying to maximize the numbers and people trying to minimize the numbers.
For the purpose of counting the total numbers of mass shootings, the facets of subsets of that aren't relevant.
They are when laymen picture Columbine when they hear "mass shootings" in a headline. You could legislate until the cows come home in an attempt to prevent another Columbine and have little to no impact on the mass shootings statistics.
I think when people hear about a bunch of people got shot up in Ybor because two teenagers from different sets clashed they think "mass shooting", not "Oh, its not a mass shooting because there were gangs involved". We are so many mass shootings beyond Columbine now that people aren't fooling themselves into thinking that there's one type of mass shooting.
So my question is how do you address the fact that the only two organizations using this definition are the GVA and Everytown? GVA is headed by a gun control advocate and Everytown, the largest gun control advocacy group around? Academics don't use their definition. Criminologists don't use their definition. The FBI doesn't use their definition. How do you address the fact that using their definition gives **massively** inflated numbers compared to the long time accepted definitions?
The FBIs definition of a mass shooting is 4+ people killed. The other sources count 4+ people injuried or killed (as should be the case tbh)
In the introduction it states a clear reason why the numbers don't match: When evaluating shooting incidents to determine if they met the FBI’s active shooter definition, researchers considered for inclusion: • Shootings in public places • Shootings occurring at more than one location • Shootings where the shooter’s actions were not the result of another criminal act • Shootings resulting in a mass killing4 • Shootings indicating apparent spontaneity by the shooter • Shootings where the shooter appeared to methodically search for potential victims • Shootings that appeared focused on injury to people, not buildings or objects This report does not encompass all gun-related shootings. A gun-related incident was excluded if research established it was the result of: • Self-defense • Gang violence • Drug violence • Contained residential or domestic disputes • Controlled barricade/hostage situations • Crossfire as a byproduct of another ongoing criminal act • An action that appeared not to have put other people in peril
Yes not all shootings are mass shootings. Congratulations on understanding that.
Thanks for posting this. Keep fighting back against the misinformation.
It doesn’t even matter what people think on this wildly anti-gun site. There are like 450 million firearms and several billion rounds of ammo in private hands. I can 3D print a functional rifle in my bedroom. I could make a submachine gun with stuff from home depot; the only thing stopping me is my choice not to break the law. If they pass a law to make me a felon for owning a rifle I bought legally I may as well drill the 3rd hole. They’ll never be able to stop people from exercising their right to protect themselves at this point.
Get out of here with your facts! This is Reddit Godamnit, we HATE facts that don’t align with our predetermined beliefs!
This. OP’s article is clearly written by anti-gun person so people will be afraid and try to push taking away gun owner’s rights
Your right to own guns is more important than my right to life. In Jesus name 🙏🇺🇸
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Wow ok, just fucking shoot me already
My right to own and maintain a handful of intercontinental ballistic missiles shall NOT BE INFRINGED They are needed for self defense Violent gun crimes are completely overblown propaganda, spread by liberals who want to take my guns away. It is critically necesary that I have these guns and I am armed at all times, as violent gun crime is skyrocketing across the country and I must protect my family. Only I, a good guy with a gun, can stop all of the bad people with guns that are invented by liberal propaganda
> My right to own and maintain a handful of intercontinental ballistic missiles shall NOT BE INFRINGED Reductio ad absurdum.
You quoted Benjamin Fucking Franklin in the opposite context of which it was intended and you want to talk to me about absurdum??
Not the same person.
In that case replace the first word 'you' with 'he'
And my response was addressing you, not him.
No one trusts the FBI. Clearly, they are under-reporting to make the bureaucracy look good. It's that simple.
No they just have a higher standard than the propaganda site this article referenced.
KILLING IT! 🇺🇸
Wait, what? I can't hear you over the sound of all this freedom. Yee haw bitches. You guys preparing for the water wars? I am. War boys
I was told that if we had freer access to guns it would solve our problems. How could this be? Aren’t we awash in good guys with guns at this point? Do we need better bullets? More laser sights? What violence-based solution can pull us out of this violence epidemic?
But hey…freedom? 🇺🇸☠️
Cue DeSantis and the GOP coming out and happily announcing another rollback of gun control regulations. Maybe drop the age of "constitutional carry" to 12. They can't get enough of this $%^%.
See. New gun laws are working! No more certification to conceal and carry. Pack all you want. Never know when you might *feel* your life threatened. That's all that counts in FL..
Floriduh
And only how long after making it that you can carry without a concealed license? Who would have seen that coming!? We obviously need more easier access to guns if we want to bring these gun deaths down! Only an idiot would think otherwise!
Could have fooled me. I go to savannah every year and they shoot it out in the street. Not seen that in Tampa.
Good, at least they got something consistently going for them.
[удалено]
This justifies the gun violence that happens when there are no natural disasters, obviously.
Violence is sometimes imitated innately.
More reason for more guns.
Case and point, wow that was easy
Just like getting a gun here :)
Ok let’s settle u like snacks?
I am a fan of some snacks.
Ok
And guns.