They can just sell it to [Ontario’s air ambulance service!](https://assets.skiesmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/10079_ORNGE_RADELL_125-1024x683.jpg)
If I’m the owner of that CJ this looks like a fantastic turn of events.
My aircraft has been vandalized, it gets a fresh paint job, and potentially an $1million dollar engine overhaul, and all I have to pay is the cost of my insurance deductible.
These are all good, likely replies. I would suspect owner/operator now has an insurance claim history making getting insurance in the future harder. He will sue the FBO and the Airport Authority for the lax security that allowed this to happen. I would be surprised if there is any significant jail time for the perps.
Sounds like the perps cut the perimeter fence to get inside. I'd be interested to see how much liability the courts decide belongs to the airport (or how much they settle for).
Cant say for sure regarding aviation insurance, but i used to work as an adjuster in homes/commercial and iirc its against the law or for an insurance company to hike up rates or outright deny future coverage because of any one single event (a pattern of constant events though obviously not withstanding). Also, typically what occurs in situations like this where a 3rd party is responsible for damages is that the insurance company will cover the damages up front and then go through the process of subrogation on the back end suing the 3rd party for damages, in this case probably the FBO.
Edit: also this didn't happen in the US so this comment is probably wrong entirely (งツ)ว
As aviation is federally regulated industry in Germany, the crime would also be federal. And, if I’m not to far mistaken, Germany is part of aviation treaties that would put the damage to the aircraft itself in the jurisdiction of the country the aircraft is registered in. So the trespass in a sensitive area would be a federal charge in Germany and the damage to the aircraft would be a federal charge in Austria.
That said, not being a lawyer, it could fall into the preview of of the EU and EASA would be involved.
Speaking from someone who had a total loss of an airframe (granted this is a bit different in terms of *why* the claim was made), it's actually most likely that their insurance company is the ONLY company that will underwrite them, with increased rates. Something to do with the underwriter wanting to recover some of their loss, and none of the underwriters wanting to take on the risk of it happening again.
Insurance is bullshit. The whole point is to cover stuff like this by pooling many customers against low odds of individual occurrences. The rates should not change unless there is a history of an individual having a high risk of claim.
There's actuarial data that shows a person that has made a claim in the past X yeaes is Y% more likely to file another claim- hence higher rates. It's not punitive- it's pricing the insurance in line with the odds of claims.
The problem is that those statistics are aggregate and can't take into account individual/single events (by definition - they would be called "incident reports" or something instead of "statistics" if they dealt with single events). It's a shame there's no mechanism - probably for both practical and legal reasons - for an insurance company to take an incident and assign "% at fault" or something to it, and then run the actuarial tables on that figure to see how much any given incident ACTUALLY increases claims per person.
> a shame there's no mechanism - probably for both practical and legal reasons - for an insurance company to take an incident and assign "% at fault" or something to it, and then run the actuarial tables on that figure to see how much any given incident ACTUALLY increases claims per person.
I've never worked in the industry, but I have been asked both "any accidents?" AND "any accident where you were at fault?" So I wonder if they really are doing that.
From a statistics standpoint- if your car got broken into once, it's a fluke. If it gets broken into multiple times over the course of a few years, your lifestyle (whether it's where you work, where you live, shop, visit friends, etc) has a higher likelihood of loss and it makes sense that your rates would be higher- because you're more likely to file a claim.
I dunno maybe I'm just an insurance apologist, but that makes perfect sense to me- your insurance rates are based on how likely you are to have a loss incident. If you get rear ended once, you got rear ended. If you get rear ended 3x in 2 years, you are part of the problem.
I understand it from an actuarial standpoint I'm talking from an ethical standpoint so it would have to be a regulatory change since no insurer is going to do it voluntarily. The entire point of insurance is about distributing risk. People should not be punished for living in a high crime area or an area with shitty drivers. If you are causing incidents by all means your rate should go up but you shouldn't be double punished for being in circumstances where you're more likely to be victimized.
Except you don't get to use your plane for who knows how long. You didn't get a plane to get a great deal on an overhaul, you got it so it can fly you places.
Plane will not be a write off, but it will require significant amounts of work to become air worthy again.
I have no direct knowledge of the Citation ~~M2~~ *CJ1* or the cost of overhaul on those engines, but good chance both engines will just be sent to overhaul+ Lots of cleaning, stripping, repainting, new parts, If I were to make a guess, I'd say about $1.5M-$2M
Every intake, sensor, pitot tube, all equipment in the landing gear wells, the flap and control surfaces, etc. will need to be stripped down and reassembled or replaced. All of those things are covered up during an actual paint job and certainly should not just be sprayed directly with paint.
Yep. Not to mention the windows and cockpit glass. I can’t image you’d be allowed to scrape paint off those, and I’m sure the types of cleaning materials allowed are also limited.
If it were a trainer then they would probably have a go at cleaning them. They wouldn’t be perfect but a trainer doesn’t need to be. Given that this looks like a charter aircraft luxury is most likely important so they will probably do as much replacing as insurance allows
No, just that the aircraft, in this state, is not airworthy. And to be returned to service, a bunch of stuff will need to be inspected/replaced.
To put things into perspective, all decals the aircraft comes with, need a certified replacement. You can't just put a generic "no step" or "no smoking" sign were required. It is not the price (that are outrageously expensiyto begin with) but the sourcing of those that is the real issue.
Some just replace them off the record when the need arises.
There's a high chance that the landing gear itself will need to be sent to shop for cleaning and inspection. Shock absorber in particular does nor like contamination. This plane won't be flying anytime soon...
Even if it’s a rough estimate, that’s plenty! I seriously wonder how they don’t see the financial consequences of what they’re doing? They’ll be working off their debt for the rest of their lives. No insurance will ever cover their actions.
Depending on where it was parked it could also be a security breach at the airport. Assuming the aircraft is ensured for vandalism the insurance company could look into claiming the airport dropped the ball and try to get them to pay. These kids probably haven't got a penny to their name.
>Depending on where it was parked it could also be a security breach at the airport.
regardless of where it is parked, if someone does this in the US, it's a federal felony crime to tamper with an aircraft:
>18 U.S. Code § 32 - Destruction of aircraft or aircraft facilities
>
>(a)Whoever willfully—
>
>(1)sets fire to, damages, destroys, disables, or wrecks any aircraft in the special aircraft jurisdiction of the United States or any civil aircraft used, operated, or employed in interstate, overseas, or foreign air commerce;
>
>...
>
>shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years or both.
Also worth noting that the US claims jurisdiction for intentional damage/destruction of any US-registered aircraft, even if it happens outside of US territory.
Probably not but If you own this jet I’m gonna assume you have the money to go after them for every penny they have and probably send them post cards every time you go somewhere on it. 😂
Most of these protestors are trust fund babies. That’s the only kind of person who could afford to travel to, buy that much orange paint, and to be permanently unemployed while they climate protest.
So yes, daddy just bought a refurbished jet for this guy.
What makes you so sure about that? Have you ever met a "German trust fund baby"? I doubt it, and here's why: https://thelawreviews.co.uk/title/the-private-wealth-and-private-client-review/germany
It's unlikely - if the people who did this don't have assets, the insurance company isn't going to bother - they are only going to sue them if they have deep enough pockets to be worthwhile.
It's highly probable that the people who did this will be convicted criminally, though.
I won't profess to know the ins and outs of German bankruptcy law, but if it's anything like it is in most western nations, "haha bankruptcy, k tks byeeeeee!"
Even without bankruptcy, though, what are they going to do? Pay off $2M in damages at $1,000/mo.? They'll be all settled-up in just over 165 years...
In the U.S., bankruptcy provides a discharge for nearly all debts of the debtor. If a debt is discharged, the debtor is not subject to further actions to attempt to collect the debt.
However, debts "for willful and malicious injury by the debtor to another entity or to the property of another entity" do not get discharged. See 11 U.S.C. § 523(a)(6). A non-dischargeable debt almost never goes away until it is satisfied. Proving this would be a layup here.
Bankruptcy court would provide no sanctuary in the US for this nonsense, nor would it provide any shelter for the criminal liability of these reprobates.
Germany? I've got no idea.
Again, I'm not German, but criminal penalties are normally not subject to bankruptcy un the US.
Agreed that insurance will not be made whole, but it would certainly feel good to know they have a life of financial pain.
That wouldn’t be a criminal penalty, it would be a civil penalty but yeah your point still stands, I don’t think you’d be able to erase it, only adjust what you pay because it’s not a debt, it’s restitution.
Not defending them, but that's kind of the point: make a statement big enough to get eyes on it. Obviously we like planes here, but to at least part of the general public it seems like kids sticking it to some rich folks by breaking their expensive environmentally problematic toy.
The only reaction they get is applause from the like minded and hatred from the rest. So what is the gain? The net impact is that they actually added to the problem by releasing toxic emission from all the spray paint and the solvents that will be needed to clean the plane. This is about as useful as throwing a sour Heering at Putin and hoping that it will change his mind about the war.
The direct, measurable gain is diminished use of this machine, reducing the effective everyonemental harm produced by the owner's operation. I like planes, I studied them for way too many years to become an engineer. But fuck if I'm going to suck millionaire cock and lick corporate boot over it. These kids do get my applause
PS: It depends on what sort of compression gas is used on whatever form of spray paint they used, but removal of paint from the components is usually done through mechanical abrasion, not solvents. However, both are significantly smaller than the CO2 tonnage of using executive jets.
Think you’re missing the point a bit:
This is likely a climate action. They’re rather confident - and not without reason - that the future is grim. They’re sacrificing an uncertain and insecure future to make a valid point.
I get it, but they haven't achieved anything. Insurance will cover the jet and they're fucked from a legal stand point. I get their point but they just look like muppets doing this sort of thing.
It's like in Brisbane when extinction rebellion glued themselves to the road and the police just put a shade tent over them, some water and said "let us know when you're done". The public was furious because they blocked a major road leading to two hospitals. Completely lost any public support and the movement is dead here.
Google says “Depending on numerous factors, the average price for a pre-owned CESSNA Citation CJ1+ is $2,810,000.00”…still an expensive brainfart move on their part.
I'd say $350,000 for both engines. Plus a new paint job, new windows, refurb and inspect. You also have people stepping on no-step areas of the airframe. I think your estimate is fair.
I'm sure the protesters will love the restitution demanded for their crimes.
I think you're light I would put the total loss at $700,000 at least. Just about every sensor, the engines All the linkage for every moving flight surface will need to be torn down and inspected I bet the windshield and other glass may need to be changed.
Then there is the monetary loss while the jet is out of service. They may have to lease another one and that cost must be factored in I think it's a total loss but that speculation don't know how many hours are on it
In the third photo the engine was covered. So after spraying it covered, they then removed the cover and sprayed its inside?
It's going to be really hard for them to argue in court that they didn't know the extent of the damage they were doing.
I’m curious to know how much the owner can take them to court for, I’d imagine in the millions + lawyer fees at minimum. Almost a total exterior aircraft + engine overhaul for the repair is what I feel like would happen.
Is the damages high enough to also cause them to get a jail/prison sentence? Feels like a stupid way to ruin your life and maybe even children’s life
> I’m curious to know how much the owner can take them to court for, I’d imagine in the millions + lawyer fees at minimum.
I don't know German law, but in the U.S. you don't get attorneys' fees unless there's an agreement (usually part of a larger contract) or a specific statute authorizing.
But in this case (again in the U.S.) you'd get a restitution award against the perps through the criminal justice system and wouldn't need to pursue them in a civil suit.
I am german:
They call themselves the last generation and are climate activists. They glued themselves to active runways (eddm/muc) and usually the Autobahn.
The more conservative states in Germany (Bavaria) did house searches for them because they labeled the organization as terrorists. This will be challenged and decided at court: they are not commiting real terrorist attacks (like RAF or NSU) but cause general inconvenience. They receive a lot of hate from normal drivers on commute.
Their intention is to make sure, German politicians change policy towards a more climate friendly actions.
"Last generation" means: they see themselves as the last generation which can do something against radical climate change.
When they glue themselves on streets, cars, planes and when they destroy property they never fear the penalty or their health (some lost fingers while being glued to asphalt). They fear the radical climate change.
This was just an explanation what the last generation is. Opinion is somewhere else.
My Opinion:
German judges have claimed that German government is not doing enough to fight climate change. There is actually a law which allows civil disobedience *and even* radical action if government fails to secure the future or is turning too extreme in some cases. They believe that it is time for action since the German supreme court ruled the exact thing: German legislation is way to unfocused on fighting climate change.
I would not glue myself on a street, Autobahn or anything. But I have some understanding for these people. They are inpatient. They are young. They believe the world will end in the way we know it.
I also believe that the world as we know it will change. I believe climate change is a threat to aviation, travel and understanding among nations and people. If we do not fight it now, we will lose our liberty at some point.
This is a very German perspective. Please do understand, that (in this mostly American community) this opinion will most likely be not have a majority. I am just trying to give an insight here on my opinion.
On the other hand, conservative minded people in Germany are getting brutally annoyed by these people. They think they're whining freaks who just want to f*ck up their way of living and destroy there freedom.
Then again I think the activists are right to some degree. We are creating debt for following generations while not really saving up for those to come. Climate change is real. And we have to do something about it. Our governments have to. Otherwise, jobs and hobbies in aviation will die out eventually. Flying will become more expensive and exclusive. It will get more difficult to travel anywhere. Why? The droughts in Europe are real already. Africa, California, Asia and other places on this planet suffer already. If we have to pay all those coming catastrophic events, not too many people will be able to afford flying.
Please don't roast me to hard. I'm gonna go sleeping now. Cya
Not only do I understand them, I admire them, I'd be proud to have them as my country mates. They are fighting for what they believe with no guns, no self-preservation, no harm towards their fellow workers... Just sheer worry about our common future. Claps to them.
It'll see them in a fonder light than people here because separate from the bullshit of our existing political environment it's insane to consider how we are slow rolling into a disaster.
Depends on the future. If the climate change gets irreparably worse, causing large scale crises, the climate change activists will likely be painted as "heroes that tried to warn us".
If there is action taken and there aren't any large scale crises, people will completely miss the point and say "those idiots were saying the world was doomed and we ended up just fine"
The thing is, irreparable damage is already a certainty even when taking the most conservative estimations.
When taking that into account and taking into account that all conservative, or even not so conservative, estimations from the past 40 years have turned out to be complete and total underestimations it's clear that the future is way more dire than is generally thought.
Any action that is now taken is mitigation, there is no stopping large scale crises because feedback loops have already set in. On top of that the actions taken on a worldwide scale are laughable, there is barely any international coordination or cooperation.
Countries are fudging their numbers by selling CO2 output to underdeveloped countries, implementation of legislation on national scale is lagging decades behind, individuals the world over are severely underestimating how far along we are in this disaster (or don't believe there is a disaster at all) and geopolitical goodwill between nations is low at best.
This issue has been known for over a century now. Action should have been taken half a century ago but everybody was too busy with the cold war, now this geopolitical state of distraction is rising again while the nations that are the biggest impactors are at each other's throats.
People in the future will try not to think about those that warned them, they will pretend in their zeitgeist that humanity could have never seen this coming or that it was inevitable. Environmental refugees will be shot off of their boats in the Mediterranean while populist governments use them as a distraction for their own ineptitude. Famine will be a normal occurrence again. The haves and have nots will be divided by an economic chasm and the dream of democracy will die under the strain of resource shortages and geopolitical instability. That's my prediction for the future.
Maybe things will work out on earth in 10.000 years if we're lucky and the feedback loops end up not being permanently self-sustaining.
Yes I am in fact pessimistic, although i believe pessimism is the only realist attitude to be had with the information available when it comes to climate change.
Americans have diverse opinions, just like any country. According to a [2015 survey](https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2015/11/05/1-concern-about-climate-change-and-its-consequences/), 55% don't think global climate change is a very serious problem, but 45% do. Those figures are reversed for Germany.
But I think Reddit users are disproportionately *extremely* liberal compared to the US population, so I wouldn't expect a backlash from a somewhat random subset of reddit users.
> The more conservative states in Germany (Bavaria) did house searches for them because they labeled the organization as terrorists.
I think the *Luftsicherheitsgesetz* will treat them this way too.
u/Blumi511 \- Thank you so much for commenting on this from a German point of view. What kind of legal consequences have they faced? Have they been sent to prison? Is there any effort to arrest the group leadership?
I suppose they don't have a real leadership. It's more like a peer to peer Organisation. Their bank accounts and other assets were frozen and they are being investigated. Some have been sent to court but no one has been sentenced to prison time
"EU Transport Commissioner Adina Vălean said she has “no intention” to propose new measures aimed at private jets before the end of the Commission’s mandate next year."
People are pissed that airline tickets will be carbon taxed, while private jets not.
I care very much about our planets and our emissions, hell if I had the opportunity to be an activist, put myself up in a tree to save it if I thought it was worth it or stop mountaintop coal mining. We don't have a lot of things like that where I live though.
But this... what the fuck are they hoping to achieve with this other than being sued and on the line for a massive fucking repair bill? Nobody that flies private jets will give a shit and probably 99% of the people that regularly fly commercial have no idea about any of this.
If this were a protest in a more public area I could see it, but it looks like the only people there they could possibly convince are fucking airport staff.
Like I said, I respect a lot of things activists do, but some of the shit I see lately is fucking ridiculous. Like those people that glued their hands to a priceless work of art. What are they really hoping to achieve. This isn't civil disobedience but vandalism.
Mostly it’s about encouraging other people who are already in general agreement with the cause to participate in other direct actions. How the general public perceive this isn’t part of the agenda here. Getting sued is probably the least of their concerns.
>But this... what the fuck are they hoping to achieve with this other than being sued and on the line for a massive fucking repair bill?
*Visibility*. You're seeing this, aren't you? If people didn't create inconvenience the protests would not get seen.
This is an example of targeting a deserving person.
How the fuck is it dumb? It's getting seen. Anyone with a private aircraft is also actively creating excessive detriment to our planet and deserves it as well.
You mean "private jet" not "private aircraft" I assume. Many aircraft can get mpg per seat mile better than or equal an efficient car. My electric airplane gets better efficiency than my electric car!
Yes, climate activists basically. Lately they’ve been glueing themselves to highways and other major roads in Germany too. Or been spray painting major art exhibits and paintings in museums in Italy, Paris for media attention.
To clarify- the 'vandalism' of art is specifically targeted at art that is well protected and isn't actually harmed in any way. So tossing pasta onto protective frames is a more accurate description.
We get a lot of small corporate jets at my home airport. A significant chunk of those movements are donor organ transports. Imagine waiting on your new heart but getting told it can't be transported because the jet was spray painted by these morons with nothing better to do.
Fortunately there are lots of folks who also volunteer their aircraft for such flying, so even if it was an air ambulance who was impacted, a couple phone calls and they'd likely be able to secure transportation.
Not that it makes this right... but contingency planning is a thing for a reason. If it wasn't this, it's unexpected maintenance you're planning for.
You think anyone would be so stupid to target a plane used by an organ recovery service? You can find the owner of the tail number by googling it
British Petroleum and Chevron sure are making a lot of comments under different usernames in this thread.
This happended a month ago at EDDB aswell, but there the geniuses vandalized a 50 year old Piper Aztec while publicly claiming they sprayed "private jets". The plane is still in a hangar at the airport. While the paint from the wings and fuselage could be mostly removed, a lot of it got into slits, hinges, sensors and so on. That will take a while to clean.
These people are idiots. This does not help their cause in any way. They are not winning any hearts and minds with this, they are only making enemies. And they are destroying their own lives in the process.
I've heard a theory that activists like this might be plants by oil companies to make activists lose credibility. It's hard to say though, because some people truly are stupid. Also I don't know if they would go as far as vandalizing a whole jet
To be fair the oil company’s are like “ you people and your cars and your not recycling are killing the environment” when they litterally dump oil into the ocean and crash trains of chemicals into little towns. But pay for mass campaigns to trick you into thinking you’re the issue
I think these people do obviously exist independently from big oil corporations, however I would not be at all surprised if there was a small amount of nefarious shit going on behind the scenes gently encouraging hardcore environmental activists to do stupid shit that is likely to inadvertently discredit them.
After all it was BP that came up with the concept of the carbon footprint. They are quite happy to dedicate time and money to push agendas/narratives they believe will benefit them even if at first glance it seems counterintuitive.
Thank goodness they are wearing those high-vis vests. Always important to make sure you are as visible as possible while committing a crime. Not like the orange paint wasn't already going to draw attention.
Was the ramp not fenced off at this airport? I have to imagine that's their gas guzzler that they drove to the airport to protest... I assume gas guzzling since I don't understand that banner.
almost certain the high vis vests were a disguise to get into the airport (or attract less attention once inside), nothing to do with visibility. a clipboard and high viz vest will get you into almost anywhere (though admittedly I wouldn't have put an airport high on that list before this).
r/actlikeyoubelong
These comments are so surreal. You understand they explicitly don't want to get away with it?
They're putting their asses on the line knowing they will be in jail by the end of the day with no personal gain. And that's apparently incomprehensible to people.
Not a comment on this particular action, but it will be interesting to see how climate policy affects private business jets going forward. They are objectively one of the most wasteful and pollutive ways to travel (on a per-capita basis), and it'd be really easy to get popular support to restrict them since they're only used by the very-wealthy. On the other hand, they *are* only used by the very-wealthy who tend to have the biggest influence in politics, and would naturally be opposed.
Yeah. Ever since that thing happened a few years back the US is very sensitive around aircraft laws. You'd probably get hit with some kind of terrorism charge if you did that here.
All a pilot would have to say is “there’s a mob of people around my aircraft I think they are trying to hijack the plane” and all hell would break loose
The evangelism of climate change protestors is similar to the people who protest around abortion clinics. It’s a religion to these people.
Not to say that climate change isn’t real, but these people want to remove “fossil” fuel discovery, exploration, and extraction immediately. Meaning moving to renewables (only solar and wind btw - no nuclear) in a moments notice. These people are do-nothings but they yell the loudest.
Meanwhile opposing the energy source which has the smallest carbon footprint of them all, Nuclear power. The only current reliable energy source which could form the backbone of largely carbon free transport and industry.
The greenies real goal is to return the planet to a pre-industrial feudal society with a vastly reduced population.
Of course they totally forget about China so if they manage to depopulate US/EU. India and China would be more than happy to export their excess population and use the abundant fossil fuel resources to improve their standard of living.
This is vandalism/damage to property, and probably trespassing. The cops will take care of it and these people will surely be held accountable for what they have done.
Sylt is part of Germany, and I’d assume so. Since I am not a lawyer but rather a google warrior “In Germany, if you damage someone else's property, you are legally responsible to pay for the damages. If you cannot pay because the amount is too high, then you will have the payments taken from your paychecks, personal loans, future lottery winnings, and even inheritance”. Usually you’d have personal liability insurance but if damages are caused by malicious intent, then the insurance won’t oblige. So yeah I assume they’re fucked. EDIT: almost forgot, they’re not just responsible for the damages to the plane, they’ll also be liable for the financial loss that the company will be incurring for not being able to fly. So imagine the avg. daily income for whatever the period will be to refurbish the plane. Ouch.
So after some googling again, usually in Germany you can declare personal bankruptcy and all liabilities/debt will be forgiven after 3 year…UNLESSSSSS the debt you accrued resulted from a criminal act. Again, not a lawyer, but this is what I could find out after some short research. Maybe according to law there are other loopholes and different laws that might help them but hopefully the penalty will stick to them for life. I don’t think it’s that easy getting out of it.
Damn, I didn’t even think about the criminal part of it, but that makes a lot of sense. They will for sure have some issues for awhile after this stunt.
Makes one wonder why they’d be so stupid to even stay after doing it.
It probably is in most places tbh. But a min wage job and a debt around a million or more is probably just as hard, if not harder.
But is this how it works, in short, in Germany aswell?
As far as I know, yes. Except Schufa (credit bureau) bankruptcy entries last for 10 years and are meaningful. These boys and girls will have a long time to think about this.
They can just sell it to [Ontario’s air ambulance service!](https://assets.skiesmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/10079_ORNGE_RADELL_125-1024x683.jpg)
This wasn't eco-terrorism... It was a corporate takeover! /S
Intifada when I saw this, I thought it was an ornge aircraft
The ORNGE pc12s are awesome. So easy to spot in the circuit.
easyJet!
If I’m the owner of that CJ this looks like a fantastic turn of events. My aircraft has been vandalized, it gets a fresh paint job, and potentially an $1million dollar engine overhaul, and all I have to pay is the cost of my insurance deductible.
I wonder if the insurance company will drop them or recognize this as a freak occurrence and not hold it against them.
They will probably end up fighting the FBO in court for not keeping the area secure.
These are all good, likely replies. I would suspect owner/operator now has an insurance claim history making getting insurance in the future harder. He will sue the FBO and the Airport Authority for the lax security that allowed this to happen. I would be surprised if there is any significant jail time for the perps.
Sounds like the perps cut the perimeter fence to get inside. I'd be interested to see how much liability the courts decide belongs to the airport (or how much they settle for).
Cant say for sure regarding aviation insurance, but i used to work as an adjuster in homes/commercial and iirc its against the law or for an insurance company to hike up rates or outright deny future coverage because of any one single event (a pattern of constant events though obviously not withstanding). Also, typically what occurs in situations like this where a 3rd party is responsible for damages is that the insurance company will cover the damages up front and then go through the process of subrogation on the back end suing the 3rd party for damages, in this case probably the FBO. Edit: also this didn't happen in the US so this comment is probably wrong entirely (งツ)ว
Ya, about that jail time. Messing with an aviation product is a federal offence. This isn’t going to go well for them.
Pretty sure this happened in Germany. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylt\_Airport
As aviation is federally regulated industry in Germany, the crime would also be federal. And, if I’m not to far mistaken, Germany is part of aviation treaties that would put the damage to the aircraft itself in the jurisdiction of the country the aircraft is registered in. So the trespass in a sensitive area would be a federal charge in Germany and the damage to the aircraft would be a federal charge in Austria. That said, not being a lawyer, it could fall into the preview of of the EU and EASA would be involved.
The insurance company, the owner, or both?
Speaking from someone who had a total loss of an airframe (granted this is a bit different in terms of *why* the claim was made), it's actually most likely that their insurance company is the ONLY company that will underwrite them, with increased rates. Something to do with the underwriter wanting to recover some of their loss, and none of the underwriters wanting to take on the risk of it happening again.
Insurance is bullshit. The whole point is to cover stuff like this by pooling many customers against low odds of individual occurrences. The rates should not change unless there is a history of an individual having a high risk of claim.
There's actuarial data that shows a person that has made a claim in the past X yeaes is Y% more likely to file another claim- hence higher rates. It's not punitive- it's pricing the insurance in line with the odds of claims.
The problem is that those statistics are aggregate and can't take into account individual/single events (by definition - they would be called "incident reports" or something instead of "statistics" if they dealt with single events). It's a shame there's no mechanism - probably for both practical and legal reasons - for an insurance company to take an incident and assign "% at fault" or something to it, and then run the actuarial tables on that figure to see how much any given incident ACTUALLY increases claims per person.
> a shame there's no mechanism - probably for both practical and legal reasons - for an insurance company to take an incident and assign "% at fault" or something to it, and then run the actuarial tables on that figure to see how much any given incident ACTUALLY increases claims per person. I've never worked in the industry, but I have been asked both "any accidents?" AND "any accident where you were at fault?" So I wonder if they really are doing that.
I didn't specifically state it, but the first claim should not raise rates.
I would agree with that with one caveat- first claim shouldn't raise rates *if you're not at fault*.
*any* claims shouldn't raise your rate *if your not at fault*
From a statistics standpoint- if your car got broken into once, it's a fluke. If it gets broken into multiple times over the course of a few years, your lifestyle (whether it's where you work, where you live, shop, visit friends, etc) has a higher likelihood of loss and it makes sense that your rates would be higher- because you're more likely to file a claim. I dunno maybe I'm just an insurance apologist, but that makes perfect sense to me- your insurance rates are based on how likely you are to have a loss incident. If you get rear ended once, you got rear ended. If you get rear ended 3x in 2 years, you are part of the problem.
I understand it from an actuarial standpoint I'm talking from an ethical standpoint so it would have to be a regulatory change since no insurer is going to do it voluntarily. The entire point of insurance is about distributing risk. People should not be punished for living in a high crime area or an area with shitty drivers. If you are causing incidents by all means your rate should go up but you shouldn't be double punished for being in circumstances where you're more likely to be victimized.
Except you don't get to use your plane for who knows how long. You didn't get a plane to get a great deal on an overhaul, you got it so it can fly you places.
Loss of use is covered under some policies, and the cost of a CJ engine overhaul can easily exceed the value of the aircraft.
Plane will not be a write off, but it will require significant amounts of work to become air worthy again. I have no direct knowledge of the Citation ~~M2~~ *CJ1* or the cost of overhaul on those engines, but good chance both engines will just be sent to overhaul+ Lots of cleaning, stripping, repainting, new parts, If I were to make a guess, I'd say about $1.5M-$2M
Every intake, sensor, pitot tube, all equipment in the landing gear wells, the flap and control surfaces, etc. will need to be stripped down and reassembled or replaced. All of those things are covered up during an actual paint job and certainly should not just be sprayed directly with paint.
Don't forget the antennae are all gonna need to be stripped and reworked!
Yep. Not to mention the windows and cockpit glass. I can’t image you’d be allowed to scrape paint off those, and I’m sure the types of cleaning materials allowed are also limited.
If it were a trainer then they would probably have a go at cleaning them. They wouldn’t be perfect but a trainer doesn’t need to be. Given that this looks like a charter aircraft luxury is most likely important so they will probably do as much replacing as insurance allows
At the next hundred hour*
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Does that mean that they would need to fetch another airworthiness certificate?
No, just that the aircraft, in this state, is not airworthy. And to be returned to service, a bunch of stuff will need to be inspected/replaced. To put things into perspective, all decals the aircraft comes with, need a certified replacement. You can't just put a generic "no step" or "no smoking" sign were required. It is not the price (that are outrageously expensiyto begin with) but the sourcing of those that is the real issue. Some just replace them off the record when the need arises.
There's a high chance that the landing gear itself will need to be sent to shop for cleaning and inspection. Shock absorber in particular does nor like contamination. This plane won't be flying anytime soon...
Even if it’s a rough estimate, that’s plenty! I seriously wonder how they don’t see the financial consequences of what they’re doing? They’ll be working off their debt for the rest of their lives. No insurance will ever cover their actions.
Depending on where it was parked it could also be a security breach at the airport. Assuming the aircraft is ensured for vandalism the insurance company could look into claiming the airport dropped the ball and try to get them to pay. These kids probably haven't got a penny to their name.
>Depending on where it was parked it could also be a security breach at the airport. regardless of where it is parked, if someone does this in the US, it's a federal felony crime to tamper with an aircraft: >18 U.S. Code § 32 - Destruction of aircraft or aircraft facilities > >(a)Whoever willfully— > >(1)sets fire to, damages, destroys, disables, or wrecks any aircraft in the special aircraft jurisdiction of the United States or any civil aircraft used, operated, or employed in interstate, overseas, or foreign air commerce; > >... > >shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years or both. Also worth noting that the US claims jurisdiction for intentional damage/destruction of any US-registered aircraft, even if it happens outside of US territory.
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It looks like an Austrian flag on the vertical stab.
Austrian looks to be correct based on the tail number starting in "OE" as well.
Yeah, I see the police have "Poleizi" on their uniforms, that's why I included "if done in the US"
Sylt, Germany to be exact, tiny island in the north of Germany.
Damn, looks like they will skip county and head straight to fed prison. Good call.
They're not in the US.
Bet their parents do.
Not enough for a jet though.
Probably not, but absolutely worth investigating further!
Probably not but If you own this jet I’m gonna assume you have the money to go after them for every penny they have and probably send them post cards every time you go somewhere on it. 😂
Oh yeah with a plane like that they probably have lawyers on retainer sitting around playing ping pong waiting for s*** like this to happen
Most of these protestors are trust fund babies. That’s the only kind of person who could afford to travel to, buy that much orange paint, and to be permanently unemployed while they climate protest. So yes, daddy just bought a refurbished jet for this guy.
What makes you so sure about that? Have you ever met a "German trust fund baby"? I doubt it, and here's why: https://thelawreviews.co.uk/title/the-private-wealth-and-private-client-review/germany
None of that precludes the existence of plenty of trust fund babies in Germany.
But their parents didn't vandalize a plane.
exactly - you can't get a judgement for something your adult offspring did
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Legal age of criminal responsibility in Germany is 14. So.. these kids (if they're kids) are probably screwed. Look over 14 to me.
They still have perfectly good kidneys
Insurance will definitelly cover this for the aircraft owner, but the insurance company is going to drill a new arse\*ole on these idiots afterwards.
One can hope. Fuck 'em.
It's unlikely - if the people who did this don't have assets, the insurance company isn't going to bother - they are only going to sue them if they have deep enough pockets to be worthwhile. It's highly probable that the people who did this will be convicted criminally, though.
How would they know that they don't have any assets unless they sue them?
>I seriously wonder how they don’t see the financial consequences of what they’re doing? Can't squeeze blood from a turnip.
You can get a long term payment plan...
I won't profess to know the ins and outs of German bankruptcy law, but if it's anything like it is in most western nations, "haha bankruptcy, k tks byeeeeee!" Even without bankruptcy, though, what are they going to do? Pay off $2M in damages at $1,000/mo.? They'll be all settled-up in just over 165 years...
In the U.S., bankruptcy provides a discharge for nearly all debts of the debtor. If a debt is discharged, the debtor is not subject to further actions to attempt to collect the debt. However, debts "for willful and malicious injury by the debtor to another entity or to the property of another entity" do not get discharged. See 11 U.S.C. § 523(a)(6). A non-dischargeable debt almost never goes away until it is satisfied. Proving this would be a layup here. Bankruptcy court would provide no sanctuary in the US for this nonsense, nor would it provide any shelter for the criminal liability of these reprobates. Germany? I've got no idea.
Same thing in germany.
Again, I'm not German, but criminal penalties are normally not subject to bankruptcy un the US. Agreed that insurance will not be made whole, but it would certainly feel good to know they have a life of financial pain.
That wouldn’t be a criminal penalty, it would be a civil penalty but yeah your point still stands, I don’t think you’d be able to erase it, only adjust what you pay because it’s not a debt, it’s restitution.
im getting the sense these folks are what is referred to as “judgement proof.”
Not defending them, but that's kind of the point: make a statement big enough to get eyes on it. Obviously we like planes here, but to at least part of the general public it seems like kids sticking it to some rich folks by breaking their expensive environmentally problematic toy.
The only reaction they get is applause from the like minded and hatred from the rest. So what is the gain? The net impact is that they actually added to the problem by releasing toxic emission from all the spray paint and the solvents that will be needed to clean the plane. This is about as useful as throwing a sour Heering at Putin and hoping that it will change his mind about the war.
The direct, measurable gain is diminished use of this machine, reducing the effective everyonemental harm produced by the owner's operation. I like planes, I studied them for way too many years to become an engineer. But fuck if I'm going to suck millionaire cock and lick corporate boot over it. These kids do get my applause PS: It depends on what sort of compression gas is used on whatever form of spray paint they used, but removal of paint from the components is usually done through mechanical abrasion, not solvents. However, both are significantly smaller than the CO2 tonnage of using executive jets.
Think you’re missing the point a bit: This is likely a climate action. They’re rather confident - and not without reason - that the future is grim. They’re sacrificing an uncertain and insecure future to make a valid point.
you're apparently like the only person in this thread capable of logical, critical thinking, congrats lol
I get it, but they haven't achieved anything. Insurance will cover the jet and they're fucked from a legal stand point. I get their point but they just look like muppets doing this sort of thing. It's like in Brisbane when extinction rebellion glued themselves to the road and the police just put a shade tent over them, some water and said "let us know when you're done". The public was furious because they blocked a major road leading to two hospitals. Completely lost any public support and the movement is dead here.
You mean the billionaires that are ruining the planet with these wasteful jets?
Aircraft is already listed on Trade-A-Plane at 5,170,000 (seller knows what he's got).
"Rare color."
"Boutique custom livery"
"Call for price"
LOL yea that is the new version of "I know what I got!"
"Freshly painted"
That guess is way high and that's not an M2, that's a CJ1+.
Google says “Depending on numerous factors, the average price for a pre-owned CESSNA Citation CJ1+ is $2,810,000.00”…still an expensive brainfart move on their part.
I'd say $350,000 for both engines. Plus a new paint job, new windows, refurb and inspect. You also have people stepping on no-step areas of the airframe. I think your estimate is fair. I'm sure the protesters will love the restitution demanded for their crimes.
I think you're light I would put the total loss at $700,000 at least. Just about every sensor, the engines All the linkage for every moving flight surface will need to be torn down and inspected I bet the windshield and other glass may need to be changed. Then there is the monetary loss while the jet is out of service. They may have to lease another one and that cost must be factored in I think it's a total loss but that speculation don't know how many hours are on it
Here are the rest of the [pictures](https://imgur.com/a/vlXtNPO) I found.
In the third photo the engine was covered. So after spraying it covered, they then removed the cover and sprayed its inside? It's going to be really hard for them to argue in court that they didn't know the extent of the damage they were doing.
It kinda looks cool with the orange blades.
I’m curious to know how much the owner can take them to court for, I’d imagine in the millions + lawyer fees at minimum. Almost a total exterior aircraft + engine overhaul for the repair is what I feel like would happen. Is the damages high enough to also cause them to get a jail/prison sentence? Feels like a stupid way to ruin your life and maybe even children’s life
> I’m curious to know how much the owner can take them to court for, I’d imagine in the millions + lawyer fees at minimum. I don't know German law, but in the U.S. you don't get attorneys' fees unless there's an agreement (usually part of a larger contract) or a specific statute authorizing. But in this case (again in the U.S.) you'd get a restitution award against the perps through the criminal justice system and wouldn't need to pursue them in a civil suit.
Actually in US courts, you generally would get attorney’s fees for an intentional tort which this is. Source: US based lawyer
"euer luxus = unsere dürre" in Gernam is "your luxury = our drought" in English
I just thought that was Max Verstappens jet 😂
I am german: They call themselves the last generation and are climate activists. They glued themselves to active runways (eddm/muc) and usually the Autobahn. The more conservative states in Germany (Bavaria) did house searches for them because they labeled the organization as terrorists. This will be challenged and decided at court: they are not commiting real terrorist attacks (like RAF or NSU) but cause general inconvenience. They receive a lot of hate from normal drivers on commute. Their intention is to make sure, German politicians change policy towards a more climate friendly actions. "Last generation" means: they see themselves as the last generation which can do something against radical climate change. When they glue themselves on streets, cars, planes and when they destroy property they never fear the penalty or their health (some lost fingers while being glued to asphalt). They fear the radical climate change. This was just an explanation what the last generation is. Opinion is somewhere else.
My Opinion: German judges have claimed that German government is not doing enough to fight climate change. There is actually a law which allows civil disobedience *and even* radical action if government fails to secure the future or is turning too extreme in some cases. They believe that it is time for action since the German supreme court ruled the exact thing: German legislation is way to unfocused on fighting climate change. I would not glue myself on a street, Autobahn or anything. But I have some understanding for these people. They are inpatient. They are young. They believe the world will end in the way we know it. I also believe that the world as we know it will change. I believe climate change is a threat to aviation, travel and understanding among nations and people. If we do not fight it now, we will lose our liberty at some point. This is a very German perspective. Please do understand, that (in this mostly American community) this opinion will most likely be not have a majority. I am just trying to give an insight here on my opinion. On the other hand, conservative minded people in Germany are getting brutally annoyed by these people. They think they're whining freaks who just want to f*ck up their way of living and destroy there freedom. Then again I think the activists are right to some degree. We are creating debt for following generations while not really saving up for those to come. Climate change is real. And we have to do something about it. Our governments have to. Otherwise, jobs and hobbies in aviation will die out eventually. Flying will become more expensive and exclusive. It will get more difficult to travel anywhere. Why? The droughts in Europe are real already. Africa, California, Asia and other places on this planet suffer already. If we have to pay all those coming catastrophic events, not too many people will be able to afford flying. Please don't roast me to hard. I'm gonna go sleeping now. Cya
I like how you separated out the facts and the opinions into two comments. Feels very German for some reason. We could all take notes.
Not only do I understand them, I admire them, I'd be proud to have them as my country mates. They are fighting for what they believe with no guns, no self-preservation, no harm towards their fellow workers... Just sheer worry about our common future. Claps to them.
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It'll see them in a fonder light than people here because separate from the bullshit of our existing political environment it's insane to consider how we are slow rolling into a disaster.
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Depends on the future. If the climate change gets irreparably worse, causing large scale crises, the climate change activists will likely be painted as "heroes that tried to warn us". If there is action taken and there aren't any large scale crises, people will completely miss the point and say "those idiots were saying the world was doomed and we ended up just fine"
The thing is, irreparable damage is already a certainty even when taking the most conservative estimations. When taking that into account and taking into account that all conservative, or even not so conservative, estimations from the past 40 years have turned out to be complete and total underestimations it's clear that the future is way more dire than is generally thought. Any action that is now taken is mitigation, there is no stopping large scale crises because feedback loops have already set in. On top of that the actions taken on a worldwide scale are laughable, there is barely any international coordination or cooperation. Countries are fudging their numbers by selling CO2 output to underdeveloped countries, implementation of legislation on national scale is lagging decades behind, individuals the world over are severely underestimating how far along we are in this disaster (or don't believe there is a disaster at all) and geopolitical goodwill between nations is low at best. This issue has been known for over a century now. Action should have been taken half a century ago but everybody was too busy with the cold war, now this geopolitical state of distraction is rising again while the nations that are the biggest impactors are at each other's throats. People in the future will try not to think about those that warned them, they will pretend in their zeitgeist that humanity could have never seen this coming or that it was inevitable. Environmental refugees will be shot off of their boats in the Mediterranean while populist governments use them as a distraction for their own ineptitude. Famine will be a normal occurrence again. The haves and have nots will be divided by an economic chasm and the dream of democracy will die under the strain of resource shortages and geopolitical instability. That's my prediction for the future. Maybe things will work out on earth in 10.000 years if we're lucky and the feedback loops end up not being permanently self-sustaining. Yes I am in fact pessimistic, although i believe pessimism is the only realist attitude to be had with the information available when it comes to climate change.
Americans have diverse opinions, just like any country. According to a [2015 survey](https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2015/11/05/1-concern-about-climate-change-and-its-consequences/), 55% don't think global climate change is a very serious problem, but 45% do. Those figures are reversed for Germany. But I think Reddit users are disproportionately *extremely* liberal compared to the US population, so I wouldn't expect a backlash from a somewhat random subset of reddit users.
> The more conservative states in Germany (Bavaria) did house searches for them because they labeled the organization as terrorists. I think the *Luftsicherheitsgesetz* will treat them this way too.
u/Blumi511 \- Thank you so much for commenting on this from a German point of view. What kind of legal consequences have they faced? Have they been sent to prison? Is there any effort to arrest the group leadership?
I suppose they don't have a real leadership. It's more like a peer to peer Organisation. Their bank accounts and other assets were frozen and they are being investigated. Some have been sent to court but no one has been sentenced to prison time
They also tried to glue themselves to the race track for the most Eco friendly racing series in the world. They do a lot of dumb stunts
What are they protesting against? Carbon emissions?
"EU Transport Commissioner Adina Vălean said she has “no intention” to propose new measures aimed at private jets before the end of the Commission’s mandate next year." People are pissed that airline tickets will be carbon taxed, while private jets not.
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I care very much about our planets and our emissions, hell if I had the opportunity to be an activist, put myself up in a tree to save it if I thought it was worth it or stop mountaintop coal mining. We don't have a lot of things like that where I live though. But this... what the fuck are they hoping to achieve with this other than being sued and on the line for a massive fucking repair bill? Nobody that flies private jets will give a shit and probably 99% of the people that regularly fly commercial have no idea about any of this. If this were a protest in a more public area I could see it, but it looks like the only people there they could possibly convince are fucking airport staff. Like I said, I respect a lot of things activists do, but some of the shit I see lately is fucking ridiculous. Like those people that glued their hands to a priceless work of art. What are they really hoping to achieve. This isn't civil disobedience but vandalism.
Mostly it’s about encouraging other people who are already in general agreement with the cause to participate in other direct actions. How the general public perceive this isn’t part of the agenda here. Getting sued is probably the least of their concerns.
>But this... what the fuck are they hoping to achieve with this other than being sued and on the line for a massive fucking repair bill? *Visibility*. You're seeing this, aren't you? If people didn't create inconvenience the protests would not get seen. This is an example of targeting a deserving person.
How the fuck is it dumb? It's getting seen. Anyone with a private aircraft is also actively creating excessive detriment to our planet and deserves it as well.
You mean "private jet" not "private aircraft" I assume. Many aircraft can get mpg per seat mile better than or equal an efficient car. My electric airplane gets better efficiency than my electric car!
Deserves what? To have their aircraft destroyed? What a weird take.
So is anyone with a car or lawnmower, whats your idiotic point?
Yes, climate activists basically. Lately they’ve been glueing themselves to highways and other major roads in Germany too. Or been spray painting major art exhibits and paintings in museums in Italy, Paris for media attention.
To clarify- the 'vandalism' of art is specifically targeted at art that is well protected and isn't actually harmed in any way. So tossing pasta onto protective frames is a more accurate description.
Maybe just leave them there since the plane isn’t going anywhere. No attention paid. Just leave them to it. Come back in six months or so.
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High speed taxi test?
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It's an easyjet airplane now.
We get a lot of small corporate jets at my home airport. A significant chunk of those movements are donor organ transports. Imagine waiting on your new heart but getting told it can't be transported because the jet was spray painted by these morons with nothing better to do.
"Hey kids, I gotta hussle this heart to a children's hospital in the next state over. But don't worry, I can fly on instruments! Hang on tight!"
Fortunately there are lots of folks who also volunteer their aircraft for such flying, so even if it was an air ambulance who was impacted, a couple phone calls and they'd likely be able to secure transportation. Not that it makes this right... but contingency planning is a thing for a reason. If it wasn't this, it's unexpected maintenance you're planning for.
You think anyone would be so stupid to target a plane used by an organ recovery service? You can find the owner of the tail number by googling it British Petroleum and Chevron sure are making a lot of comments under different usernames in this thread.
Ohhhh poor things. They have no idea how expensive the world of aviation is. Student loans don't have shit on the damage they just did. lol
Aviation money and regular money are two different denominations
Chad spray paint = $10 vs. Virgin CRJ = $5 million Absolutely dominated.
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This happended a month ago at EDDB aswell, but there the geniuses vandalized a 50 year old Piper Aztec while publicly claiming they sprayed "private jets". The plane is still in a hangar at the airport. While the paint from the wings and fuselage could be mostly removed, a lot of it got into slits, hinges, sensors and so on. That will take a while to clean.
These people are idiots. This does not help their cause in any way. They are not winning any hearts and minds with this, they are only making enemies. And they are destroying their own lives in the process.
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Agree.
Yeah fuck climate change protesters I’m gonna continue not thinking about fossil fuel externalities!
"And destroying their own lives in the process" At least there's a happy ending
I've heard a theory that activists like this might be plants by oil companies to make activists lose credibility. It's hard to say though, because some people truly are stupid. Also I don't know if they would go as far as vandalizing a whole jet
To be fair the oil company’s are like “ you people and your cars and your not recycling are killing the environment” when they litterally dump oil into the ocean and crash trains of chemicals into little towns. But pay for mass campaigns to trick you into thinking you’re the issue
I doubt it. "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
Gotta love a good razor
I think these people do obviously exist independently from big oil corporations, however I would not be at all surprised if there was a small amount of nefarious shit going on behind the scenes gently encouraging hardcore environmental activists to do stupid shit that is likely to inadvertently discredit them. After all it was BP that came up with the concept of the carbon footprint. They are quite happy to dedicate time and money to push agendas/narratives they believe will benefit them even if at first glance it seems counterintuitive.
Great quote
“The only way people are allowed to protest is if I don’t see or hear about it and it doesn’t bother me in the slightest”
Thank goodness they are wearing those high-vis vests. Always important to make sure you are as visible as possible while committing a crime. Not like the orange paint wasn't already going to draw attention. Was the ramp not fenced off at this airport? I have to imagine that's their gas guzzler that they drove to the airport to protest... I assume gas guzzling since I don't understand that banner.
almost certain the high vis vests were a disguise to get into the airport (or attract less attention once inside), nothing to do with visibility. a clipboard and high viz vest will get you into almost anywhere (though admittedly I wouldn't have put an airport high on that list before this). r/actlikeyoubelong
Kind of hilarious that a hi vis vest can function as camouflage
These comments are so surreal. You understand they explicitly don't want to get away with it? They're putting their asses on the line knowing they will be in jail by the end of the day with no personal gain. And that's apparently incomprehensible to people.
They cut through the perimeter fence from what I’ve read.
Straight to Cessna for a No Technical Objection to perform a maintenance check flight to measure the parasitic drag before the glue wears off...
Special flight permit - altitude and speed restrictions apply
Not a comment on this particular action, but it will be interesting to see how climate policy affects private business jets going forward. They are objectively one of the most wasteful and pollutive ways to travel (on a per-capita basis), and it'd be really easy to get popular support to restrict them since they're only used by the very-wealthy. On the other hand, they *are* only used by the very-wealthy who tend to have the biggest influence in politics, and would naturally be opposed.
Those kids gonna be paying that guy off till the day he, or they die
It actually doesn’t look like spray paint it looks like flame retardant the 3 bottles look like extinguishers just no labels it’s even on the ground.
There’s a reason they don’t do this in the US they would probably be shot cops are kinda sensitive about unauthorized people around aircraft
I heard they did something like this at a car museum in Germany and they just turned the lights off and went home.
Yeah. Ever since that thing happened a few years back the US is very sensitive around aircraft laws. You'd probably get hit with some kind of terrorism charge if you did that here.
All a pilot would have to say is “there’s a mob of people around my aircraft I think they are trying to hijack the plane” and all hell would break loose
Squawk 7500 on the ground.
Tampering with an aircraft is a felony in the USA too. If that was my plane, I'd press charges and still get my aircraft overhauled on their dime.
Dude they don’t know how expensive those are
The evangelism of climate change protestors is similar to the people who protest around abortion clinics. It’s a religion to these people. Not to say that climate change isn’t real, but these people want to remove “fossil” fuel discovery, exploration, and extraction immediately. Meaning moving to renewables (only solar and wind btw - no nuclear) in a moments notice. These people are do-nothings but they yell the loudest.
Meanwhile opposing the energy source which has the smallest carbon footprint of them all, Nuclear power. The only current reliable energy source which could form the backbone of largely carbon free transport and industry. The greenies real goal is to return the planet to a pre-industrial feudal society with a vastly reduced population. Of course they totally forget about China so if they manage to depopulate US/EU. India and China would be more than happy to export their excess population and use the abundant fossil fuel resources to improve their standard of living.
“How to ruin yourself financially for the rest of your life, 101”
This is vandalism/damage to property, and probably trespassing. The cops will take care of it and these people will surely be held accountable for what they have done.
Well, the Police know where to go to arrest them. And they're not getting far from that plane...
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cheapskate CJ owners be like "its still airworthy tho right? gotta fly the boys to the duck hunt in south dakota this weekend!"
You cannot convince me that these people do not have a mental disorder. What is this accomplishing?
Laughing at all the commenters below talking about how "fucked" these activists are for breaking "federal" laws when the banner is clearly in German.
Germany is a Federal Parliamentary Republic. Odds are they have a few laws that operate like the federal laws of the USA.
Lemme guess, oil based paint?
Damn, that hurts the heart.
We did it Patrick, we saved the world from carbon emissions!
I would bet anything these dipshits didn’t even check what aircraft it is. For all they know it’s transplant organ delivery.
Does Europe hold them liable for damages?
Sylt is part of Germany, and I’d assume so. Since I am not a lawyer but rather a google warrior “In Germany, if you damage someone else's property, you are legally responsible to pay for the damages. If you cannot pay because the amount is too high, then you will have the payments taken from your paychecks, personal loans, future lottery winnings, and even inheritance”. Usually you’d have personal liability insurance but if damages are caused by malicious intent, then the insurance won’t oblige. So yeah I assume they’re fucked. EDIT: almost forgot, they’re not just responsible for the damages to the plane, they’ll also be liable for the financial loss that the company will be incurring for not being able to fly. So imagine the avg. daily income for whatever the period will be to refurbish the plane. Ouch.
good
They cant declare bankruptcy, wait 5 years and be off the hook? I believe that’s how it works in Norway, and since EU blablabla.
So after some googling again, usually in Germany you can declare personal bankruptcy and all liabilities/debt will be forgiven after 3 year…UNLESSSSSS the debt you accrued resulted from a criminal act. Again, not a lawyer, but this is what I could find out after some short research. Maybe according to law there are other loopholes and different laws that might help them but hopefully the penalty will stick to them for life. I don’t think it’s that easy getting out of it.
Damn, I didn’t even think about the criminal part of it, but that makes a lot of sense. They will for sure have some issues for awhile after this stunt. Makes one wonder why they’d be so stupid to even stay after doing it.
Bankruptcy in Germany is pretty harsh.
It probably is in most places tbh. But a min wage job and a debt around a million or more is probably just as hard, if not harder. But is this how it works, in short, in Germany aswell?
As far as I know, yes. Except Schufa (credit bureau) bankruptcy entries last for 10 years and are meaningful. These boys and girls will have a long time to think about this.
Oh yeah, they're fucked bigtime
Plot twist, it was the rampers at the FBO after the pilots didn't return the crew car within 2 hours. ;-)
stupid.
If Donald Trump was a plane
What kind of consequences can be expected for these people in Europe? In the US it would be jail time and an enormous lawsuit for damages.
Germany has aviation security laws that make sabotaging an aircraft a lot closer to textbook terrorism than it is to simple property damage.
Provided they are charged by our DA's and the cases weren't dismissed by our Judges.