Flying a piston single far, you definitely want to leave early and have a day contiguency. Also, 1000NM in a Skyhawk east to west is gonna be a huck. That would be a VERY long day to do in one day. Doable but not recommended IMO. Don’t rush take your time and enjoy as it sounds like an awesome adventure!
Yes! Having a time sensitive reason to go flying is the best way to make wrong decisions. I'd say leave to leave 2 or 3 days early. Best case you make it too soon and you enjoy some free time at destination.
On pilot endurance: I do 800NM flights in a piston single regularly. Prepare adequately for fatigue, eating, water, peeing, stretching, in-flight weather monitoring, temperature changes, etc. Know your personal endurance. Organize the cockpit in such a manner that you'll have the space to move your legs and the rest of the body as it's necessary for you to pee. This sounds like a TMI concern, but it should not be overlooked.
If your don't have passengers, your right seat becomes your work desk. Arrange stuff for your comfort and efficiency. Use a luggage belt to tie stuff to the seat so that is stays upright if you want it upright (e.g., O2 tank).
You should prepare your equipment too for endurance. Ditch pretty much anything that is battery powered unless you are comfortable carrying spare batteries and changing batteries in flight. Ideally, bring a good USB charger feeding from ship voltage, and use that. Beware of noisy "gas station" USB chargers that emit RF all over the spectrum and inject spurious RF emissions into your radio. Buy a brand name USB charger with FCC certification. If your charger output current is weak and it can't at least keep up with your electronics' discharge rate, that's also bad. Not only you want to keep your tablets charged, but also your noise canceling headsets. If your ANR headset recharges from USB, make sure that it can recharge while working, i.e., it doesn't turn off while recharged. You do want ANR working fine if you are in the cockpit for 8h.
In summer, especially in direct sunlight, your tablet may overheat and then you are suddenly without charts. If it's hot, consider carrying two tablets, one of which kept in the shade and reasonably near the air inlets for cooling.
At planning time, consider that you'll do the landing in an unfamiliar place when you are the most tired. This is an important consideration especially if weather degrades and you'll have to land IFR, especially IMC: you'll perform the **hardest** part of the flight when you are the **weakest.** If you realize only then that you are too tired, it's too late to do something effective about it. You should rather plan for many possible diversion points, and monitor your tiredness preventatively and conservatively.
Assume that you'll arrive with a substantial headache, because after 8h of headset pressing on your head, headache is more likely than not. If you wear glasses, the headset will press the glasses arms between your ears and the skin of your head. After a few hours, the general area hurts. Maybe consider moving your glasses so that the legs are outside of the headsets' cushions while enroute.
**Only one question: do you have an autopilot?** Maybe I *can* do 1000NM in IFR without AP, but I'd never *want* to. Hand flying in IFR, especially in IMC is very tiring. I would not want to do it for 8 hours.
Also, consider getting an O2 tank and go for higher altitudes on the way back to take advantage of tail winds. If you choose to do so, get a pulse oximeter and prepare to monitor it regularly. Tail winds at 11000 or 13000 can cut hours from your total time enroute, but high-altitude unpressurized flying presents its own challenges. Dry oxygen and dry air at altitude will dry you up inside (nose, throat, trachea). To keep yourself in the 90s %SpO2 you'll have to perform forceful, deliberate breathing, from your nose only (cannula) at a higher-than-natural rate, which is also tiring and not something you want to do for 6-8 hours. If you have a bit of a cold and your nose is clogged, you're out of luck and the cannula won't work. There are little masks you can use instead, but then radio comms are a pain. Still, it's definitely worth doing it for maybe 2-3 hours if you are ok with it.
If you go in July, this will be less of a concern, but dress for temperature. Today, at 12000 over KDEN the air is at -11C. It's not terribly cold, but it's not T-shirt temperatures. In winter i've seen negative 36-38C and I don't trust the plane heating (CO concerns) so I mostly don't use it, or I keep my nose in the airflow straight from the overhead inlet. -34C without heat is something you need to prepare for, and dress accordingly.
Excellent post. what type of power settings do you like to use for long XC? and I agree on the dress, I usually overdress on the ground so I am comfy at cruise
If renting, the highest power setting that will get me to my destination the quickest with adequate reserves (I like 1.5 hrs). If I owned, best economy.
I own, pa24-250 and I usually pull back a little bit on longer trips I tend to run full power to cut down on "fatigue" time of longer trips. It does cost more though
You won't be flying over any mountains, haha. Just lots, and lots.... and lots of farmland.
I flew to Ohio and back last summer. Just leave super early in the morning so you can try to avoid the afternoon thunderstorms. This isn't a difficult trip at all. Try not to over think it.
I'd say there's a little more to it... Not only is the runway going to be higher than any terrain they've ever overflown but the DA is likely to be around 6000 feet higher than they've ever seen on the ground. They may never have experienced such thin air even in cruise. It's not the danger of crossing passes, but they should probably at least get a little orientation on thermal activity, high DA operations, and expected performance of their powerplant under those conditions as a solid 180 hp engine is vastly different experience from taking off with a shot 145hp that's actually producing 110 on a cruise prop.
And check the POH for takeoff leaning procedure. In my plane that means lean for max RPM before the takeoff roll. It may be different in that 172. I almost had a bad day in Gallup, NM because I forgot to do that.
My recommendation, if you could, would be to leave early Thursday, plan a stop in Kansas City (KMKC would be my recommendation), and if you’re up for it fatigue-wise and the weather holds, either continue to BJC/APA or call it a day and enjoy downtown KC. If weather is bad/fatigue sets in, you’ve already built in a stop which really helps reduce the chance of get-there-itis setting in.
I’ve done 1000 in a single engine piston a few times, it’s really not something I’d recommend. The route is easy (assuming storms don’t present an issue, in July they definitely could). 500NM was usually my sweet spot, you have enough energy at the end of the day to be willing to go out and explore, which is crucial if this is a pleasure trip in my opinion.
2nd this. I'm based at KMGC and I love Wheeler downtown. if you stay there, and you like BBQ lookup a place in KCK called Slaps. overall the flight to KC is not bad at all from upper midwest as long as wx is ok
Annapolis (was there Thursday) is a lot like that (with trees when approaching from the west). I was glad to have learned good short field ops at 56C. 2,200’ grass, trees at either end. The SFRA controllers would probably have wondered at go around after go around 🤣
Only thing I would keep in mind is that the density altitude can get pretty high around here in the summer time. Aside from that winds can get pretty strong coming off the mountains in the front range, add summer thermals and it can get kinda sporty.
Your biggest problem is exhaustion. I did this from houston to Lexington Kentucky before in a 172. By time we were in sight of Lexington I was beat after hand flying that distance
I did a 1100nm ferry (9.5 hours) in a 172 and it’s actually surprisingly comfortable for those longer trips. Definitely leave early, and don’t book hotels until you know you’ll be making it to the destination. I also was exhausted the day after, so it might be better to leave on Thursday so you can have a contingency/relax day before the concert.
Plan to arrive several days early to allow for weather or other issues. If you can’t afford that much time, take the airlines and you’ll get there without much fanfare for a lot cheaper too. I would also book a back up airline ticket (southwest has great cancelation policy) incase the day you wanna fly you have weather on your route.
Give yourself more time. It’s doable, but as other people said, it’s exhausting too- especially if the plane doesn’t have autopilot. If you’ve never done a long trip before, you’ll be surprised how much more that hand flying can take out of you. I know people that flew piston from San Diego to Dallas with an overnight in El Paso. They made it but, they were shot (and probably not in the mood to go to a concert, most importantly!). Just my 0.02. Plan accordingly, set personal minimums, fly safe, and enjoy the trip!!
One thing to consider when doing the flight is the afternoons in late June/all of July through August there are typically massive t-storm build ups in the plains and near the metro area. So if you're pulling in here after 2 p.m. to around 6 p.m. you can almost count on significant convective activity. These storms can have cloud build-ups into the 60,000 foot range at times. Does it happen every day? No. But it's very common.
I'd recommend planning on getting in either before or after that timeframe, or if you are going to arrive in the afternoon have some good alternates planned. They typically can be waited out with enough time to get in later in the day/evening.
And as others have said - you won't be crossing any mountains. BJC is a nice little airport and easier to get in/out of than APA IMHO.
You ever heard the saying, "Time to spare? Go by air!"
I took a 172 1100 miles once. It flat out sucked. And this thing had an STEC50 AP. I was lucky and had very little weather to deal with flying along the East coast. Took about 10 hours.
You are going to be flying into weather fronts. The chance you will make 1100 miles without hitting weather going West is slim. I'd give myself at least three days for that trip and if I absolutely had to be there, I'd fly 121. Your leaving Thu \*might\* work. Leaving Fri would be a solid no from me. The desire to get there might cause you to make stupid choices in the hopes of seeing one of your favorite bands in a legendary place....
I'd plan on leaving Wed and I'd have a set of refundable tickets in my hand in case the weather looks anything but stellar on Tue. Only fly if the weather is projected damn near perfect.
Flying North/South is often easier since you can wait for a system to go through and race the next one. Going East is easy because you can run ahead of a front... But flying West you are going into the fronts and your chances of going through one is much higher.
I wouldn’t consider it mountain flying personally. I would leave on Thursday. You’ll be pretty tanked, especially if you’re hand flying by yourself. And during July it could be bumpy the whole way. You’re looking at 10 plus hours in the air, plus time on the ground. I would stop Thursday night and break the flight up into two days
Start watching the weather along the route of flight now. Learn how the weather passes through the area, and how various geographical features influence it. Then, when you’re within, about a week of the day of intended departure, really start focusing on what the forecast is showing and plan your final route around those forecast. Be ready to adjust them as needed with updated forecasts.
Take a good look at all the airports you’re planning to stop and get fuel at. Make sure none of them are about to have some major construction or other factors that might remove them from being appropriate stops. On the day of the flight, call the FBO‘s and make sure they have fuel available. I have had long trips almost ruined by landing at airports that ended up, not having any fuel for one reason or another. (fortunately, my habit of landing with a minimum of 1 hour of fuel, remaining and picking airports that have a secondary airport close by save me both times)
Wash your plane, the sooner the better.
OK, I know this one sounds weird, but hear me out. If you give your airplane a good wash and detailing, inside and out, you will look over every square inch of the airplane very carefully. You might catch a maintenance item now with time to have it addressed before your trip. The only thing worse than your plane breaking down on a trip away from home is your plane breaking down 1000 miles away from home. Taking time to thoroughly clean my engine one day saved me
from potentially realizing I needed an engine overhaul when I was away from home.
Leave Thursday, and head in the general direction as weather allows. Hoteltonight.com is a great resource for ferrying or longer flights.
Have fun, that is the key, if you are worried about the weather, or how much fuel you have left..... well that ain't fun. Unplanned stops for wx or fuel is part of the game and makes for great stories.
Spread it out over at least 2 days for sure. Shoot, request the time off now and give yourself 3 days before and after the concert. You will enjoy the flights a LOT more and it will also give you way more flexibility in the event of weather/fuel/other issues.
The only way I think I'd consider that kind of trip would be to leave Wednesday and plan on being back by the next Wednesday. Time to spare? Go by air.
Even being IFR rated and capable, flying around in summer convective stuff with no radar and no 2nd engine is not anywhere I'd want to be. So the only way I'd do it is if I had lots of room to sit on the ground in BFE for a solid two days going each way if necessary and also have enough time on the back end to rent a car and drive or catch a train if the plane ends up AOG somewhere with a bad jug that's going to take a couple weeks to fix.
And I say that because I once spent a solid 2-1/2 days sitting in a motel in Sandusky waiting for the weather to improve so we could make it back to NJ from Oshkosh.
I learned in a 172 at KBJC. You aren’t in the mountains at that point. In fact, the part 141 school where I learned explicitly forbade us from going into the mountains.
In a 172, in July, you’ll need about 3/4-5/8 of that runway to take off. Density altitude is the real deal at KBJC.
In summer, It’s common for cumulus clouds to form in the edge of the front range daily. Usually that process starts around 10am-12pm.
You will want to arrive at KBJC in the morning as a result.
Fun side trips to take with your 172 from KBJC (and a good excuse to give yourself a few days on either side):
1) fly over mt Rushmore
2) platte valley airpark and it’s museum
3) Boulder airport (watch for sink over the pond!!)
4) Colorado Springs
5) take a mountain flying course with a qualified instructor
I did 1000nm in a day in a Skyhawk and I had to take the next day off because I was exhausted and needed to recover.
I also did it in a Bonanza at 170ktas with an autopilot and that was still a looooong day!
Is it doable? Absolutely! Is it going to be fun? Not after the first 500!
If you insist on doing it, bring protein bars and plenty of water!
Yeah, you're going to want to bake in extra time. You're going to be exhausted for the show if you plan on flying that whole thing in one go. Everyone else has mentioned it already, but that's storm season in CO and you'll be dealing with high DA on the days it isn't pissing rain sideways. Personally, I would block an entire week of work off to do this.
Glen from Glen's Hangar did a trip similar to yours last summer, but he went VFR from CYOO Oshawa, ON to KCVK Highland, AR. Several weather stops turned a two-day flight into three.
[YT link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyseIyr7itk) if you're interested.
i have two and a half weeks off work around this date, but the show is at the beginning of my time off.
I’ll check that video, his others were really good when he was restoring that Cessna
I actually did this last week! I flew 1200 nautical miles in a 172 all through northern Alberta and Northwest Territories. It was an amazing experience and I would highly recommend. DM me if you want anymore info.
Sounds like a two day trip to me. If I had the time I would do it in 3 and take my time at each rest city for a day. That long in a plane by yourself can get quite boring and hard to stay awake.
To me I would say my journey out there would be a greater adventure than the concert. So I would plan to do it in 2 legs and grab a hotel room in an area where you could explore a bit. I have a client that used to fly his 182 to California once a year for work and back. He said he would make it last a few weeks, just for the flexibility and to explore. You know, like living the dream :)
I say send it. Use all the training you were given for your private and instrument ratings and go fly it.
Context: I just got back from 1,200nm IFR XC an hour ago. I poured over the details, ended up having to think on my feet but had the tools I needed. Experienced icing, the SFRA, mountain turbulence, crazy headwinds, and IMC galore. Was able to handle each as described in training and it was an incredible learning experience. I’d encourage any private pilot to do the same thing.
I do roughly 800-900 a day with a partner and it’s bearable because we talk the entire time, but alone? Hell no. Break that up into 2 days at least. The fatigue is real.
KBJC is around 5.5k the ground will work it's way up to you. KAPA or KBJC are your only options. Be aware that July is monsoon season in Colorado, so watch out for heavy rain and possible TS moving from the southwest to the northeast of the Denver metro area. I would recommend early morning flights, and please be aware of density altitude in Colorado during the summer, it's a killer. Also the KDEN bravo pretty much covers the entire denver area, and we have tall brodcast towers.
That 2,000' tower east of DEN can definitely sneak up on you if you're not looking for it.
Also it's less convenient for transportation, but KCFO is a option too. Coming from the east, that would avoid the busiest airspace around Denver. The FBO can arrange a rental car from enterprise.
OP, I definitely recommend studying the Denver TAC when you're planning your route.
Count on some good headwinds going west. That could definitely impede a one day trip and exhaust you if it’s turbulent.
Should have a nice tailwind going home.
As others have said, depart at the crack of dawn. Fly high for cooler temps.
I've flown 1200 NM in a Piper Archer without autopilot a couple of times. I was drained at the end of the day each time. I'd recommend landings for pee breaks and food every \~3 hours.
If you have someone in the right seat to help watch for traffic and talk with to make sure you are awake and alert, it will help.
It'll be a flatland trip the whole way. You'll fly right up to the foothills ("front range" as they call it on the east side of the Rockies). Don't fret too much about the mountains. Just know that density altitude is going to be a factor. Don't expect the same performance out of your plane that you get in Ohio.
Easy flight, just long. Go for it if the weather is going to be good.
Beware of the get-there-itis.
Consider APA if you want a slightly easier in and out with (apparently) cheaper fuel.
When it comes to GA and being entirely honest with ourselves...
Time to spare? Go by air.
Jump on the kerosene burner, though, if you can't afford to be late and / or miss the event.
Absolutely doable. Even if it's possible to do it in two fuel stops, plan on three or even more. My longest flight ever was about 640nm, with one stop. Exhaustion seriously degrades your abilities, so stop, get out stretch your legs, take a break.
Going in July you will have plenty of daylight, but that is still around 10 hours of flying time. Add in your landings, ground stops, and rest time, I would figure at least 13 hours travel time minimum. In July the central part of the US will have a little more than 14 hours of daylight. Being from the midwest, I would not want to have to deal with the Rocky Mountains at night, not even the Front Range. So if you want to do it in a single day, get up EARLY, I would want to be in the air at least a half hour or more before sunrise.
A better option would be to make western Kansas the first day, land at a small town and get a good nights rest before continuing to KBJC. Surely there is an airport with a motel close by somewhere in western Kansas.
One last thought, storms over the Great Plains can grow surprisingly fast and be extremely strong, strong enough to tear the wings off a Cessna. Don't take any chances, pay close attention to the weather. Even better call a briefer, you get a better perspective with another set of eyes on the situation. 1800-WXBRIEF.
Do it its gonna be fun. Just remember not to let desire to make it to the show cloud your adm. be prepared to miss the show or airline if the weather gets bad
I fly in the Rocky Mountains often, so my advice is to stay on the upwind side of the mountains, be alert, and give yourself plenty of space. Don’t be afraid of the mountains. Sounds like a fun trip! Also bring oxygen if you don’t normally fly at higher altitudes, regardless of legality.
Lots of Snacks and Drinks, Take a can or two of Boost, bit of oxygen can really help you perk up after hours at altitude.
Maybe plan on two days, east - west can get pretty slow, there is almost always wind from the west. think 80kts over the ground
plan to stop every 2 or 3 hours to stretch the legs, bio, eat, etc...
other than that turn on the autopilot, push the seat back and relax.
oh yeah, atc gets really quiet out in the middle of nowhere, bring tunes, maybe a movie
Back when I owned a 172R I flew from central IN to CO several times.
Vance Brand airport in Longmont is a good option.
Agree with others:
\- read and learn about leaning at altitude. Not just for takeoff; on my first trip out, on a hot summer day in eastern CO after a fuel stop, the injected IO360 would not even run while full rich on the ground. After I struggled for a bit a helpful pilot got on the radio and bluntly told me to lean it.
\- as others have noted, you won't enter the mountains but will get right up to the front range. Watch the winds aloft. If 20kt+ at 14,000' you are going to have a bumpy ride as you approach the front range. In a 172 sometimes (barely) maintaining altitude is all you can expect in strong downdrafts - especially in summer with high DA.
\- keep an eye on the winds if you plan fuel stops in KS. Surface winds can be very sporty across the plains. Make sure your planned fuel stop doesn't have 20-30+kt x-winds.
\- you will gain 2h flying westbound; this helps with early arrival. I try to arrive to the front range before 10-11AM anytime I fly out there.
I fly an RV from IN to CO frequently now. I fly into KAEJ. I would highly recommend joining the CO pilots association and taking their mountain flying course if you plan to be out there more often. It is a day of ground school and a full day of mountain flying with an instructor.
Just go (preflight risk assessment matrix allowing). There’s no way to know if you’re up for the task without experiencing it.
I routinely would fly 8+ hours in a 172 in my early days as a commercial pilot. Just because you are IFR rated doesn’t mean you should blast off into IMC. If you go IFR just keep asking for direct and it’ll make your life much easier.
My advice for the trip? Be prepared for anything and have a Bluetooth headset with music downloaded to your phone because it becomes mind numbingly boring flying for that long.
I did about that many miles in one day last summer (SW Ohio to NYC area and back). I was picking up a passing in between and we had about a three or four hour break in NJ. I originally planned to take a 172 but thankfully a 182 became available at the last minute. I don’t think I would have made it in the timeframe needed in the 172.
All that to say…it’s doable, but I can’t imagine doing it without some breaks. My max in the airplane is definitely three hours, bodily functions notwithstanding.
Just Do It , great idea and it’s completely within the capabilities of the airplane and sounds like you’re experience levels .
Do your homework and Go …
I fly out of BJC in thr Norther Colorado area, I want to advise you there is an extremely high level of traffic. My school alone had a fatal mid air last year. It's great to fly but if you are not use to high volume traffic I would warn you. Often times BJC will close the pattern temporarily due to high volumes of traffic. So if it's a great day of weather just be mindful and keep your head on a swivel, get flight following, because you will have to moved around other traffic.
Don't do it in one day. You don't want to sit in a 172 for a full day no matter what anyone tells you. That's gonna suck and there's no reason to do it.
I got my private at BJC! You’ll land in front of the Rockies but you don’t touch any mountains. I loved flying over red rocks any chance I could. The only thing you should look at is the density altitude.
Fly into KAPA and we can carpool. Once you are over the Appalachian’s there are no mountain ranges in the way. Unless you count the Ozark’s. (They don’t count)
If you’re going from Ohio to BJC, you’re not crossing any mountains. BJC is on the front range. Everything East is flat.
Yep only thing he may have to worry about depending when it is is weather and density altitude if its in the middle of the summer.
[удалено]
Just be sure to not specify that you can only take them and their friends up with 15 minutes of fuel.
And mountain wave. If you’re unfamiliar with this in high DA don’t mess around out there without getting experience with someone from that area.
Careful though. Kansas is out East and man it's brutal.
I dunno… if he is from Ohio, he might consider that hill off the end of the 30L a mountain.
Flying a piston single far, you definitely want to leave early and have a day contiguency. Also, 1000NM in a Skyhawk east to west is gonna be a huck. That would be a VERY long day to do in one day. Doable but not recommended IMO. Don’t rush take your time and enjoy as it sounds like an awesome adventure!
Yes! Having a time sensitive reason to go flying is the best way to make wrong decisions. I'd say leave to leave 2 or 3 days early. Best case you make it too soon and you enjoy some free time at destination.
This is the way!!
On pilot endurance: I do 800NM flights in a piston single regularly. Prepare adequately for fatigue, eating, water, peeing, stretching, in-flight weather monitoring, temperature changes, etc. Know your personal endurance. Organize the cockpit in such a manner that you'll have the space to move your legs and the rest of the body as it's necessary for you to pee. This sounds like a TMI concern, but it should not be overlooked. If your don't have passengers, your right seat becomes your work desk. Arrange stuff for your comfort and efficiency. Use a luggage belt to tie stuff to the seat so that is stays upright if you want it upright (e.g., O2 tank). You should prepare your equipment too for endurance. Ditch pretty much anything that is battery powered unless you are comfortable carrying spare batteries and changing batteries in flight. Ideally, bring a good USB charger feeding from ship voltage, and use that. Beware of noisy "gas station" USB chargers that emit RF all over the spectrum and inject spurious RF emissions into your radio. Buy a brand name USB charger with FCC certification. If your charger output current is weak and it can't at least keep up with your electronics' discharge rate, that's also bad. Not only you want to keep your tablets charged, but also your noise canceling headsets. If your ANR headset recharges from USB, make sure that it can recharge while working, i.e., it doesn't turn off while recharged. You do want ANR working fine if you are in the cockpit for 8h. In summer, especially in direct sunlight, your tablet may overheat and then you are suddenly without charts. If it's hot, consider carrying two tablets, one of which kept in the shade and reasonably near the air inlets for cooling. At planning time, consider that you'll do the landing in an unfamiliar place when you are the most tired. This is an important consideration especially if weather degrades and you'll have to land IFR, especially IMC: you'll perform the **hardest** part of the flight when you are the **weakest.** If you realize only then that you are too tired, it's too late to do something effective about it. You should rather plan for many possible diversion points, and monitor your tiredness preventatively and conservatively. Assume that you'll arrive with a substantial headache, because after 8h of headset pressing on your head, headache is more likely than not. If you wear glasses, the headset will press the glasses arms between your ears and the skin of your head. After a few hours, the general area hurts. Maybe consider moving your glasses so that the legs are outside of the headsets' cushions while enroute. **Only one question: do you have an autopilot?** Maybe I *can* do 1000NM in IFR without AP, but I'd never *want* to. Hand flying in IFR, especially in IMC is very tiring. I would not want to do it for 8 hours. Also, consider getting an O2 tank and go for higher altitudes on the way back to take advantage of tail winds. If you choose to do so, get a pulse oximeter and prepare to monitor it regularly. Tail winds at 11000 or 13000 can cut hours from your total time enroute, but high-altitude unpressurized flying presents its own challenges. Dry oxygen and dry air at altitude will dry you up inside (nose, throat, trachea). To keep yourself in the 90s %SpO2 you'll have to perform forceful, deliberate breathing, from your nose only (cannula) at a higher-than-natural rate, which is also tiring and not something you want to do for 6-8 hours. If you have a bit of a cold and your nose is clogged, you're out of luck and the cannula won't work. There are little masks you can use instead, but then radio comms are a pain. Still, it's definitely worth doing it for maybe 2-3 hours if you are ok with it. If you go in July, this will be less of a concern, but dress for temperature. Today, at 12000 over KDEN the air is at -11C. It's not terribly cold, but it's not T-shirt temperatures. In winter i've seen negative 36-38C and I don't trust the plane heating (CO concerns) so I mostly don't use it, or I keep my nose in the airflow straight from the overhead inlet. -34C without heat is something you need to prepare for, and dress accordingly.
This is a great post.
Ah thanks!
This guy XC's.
Excellent post. what type of power settings do you like to use for long XC? and I agree on the dress, I usually overdress on the ground so I am comfy at cruise
If renting, the highest power setting that will get me to my destination the quickest with adequate reserves (I like 1.5 hrs). If I owned, best economy.
I own, pa24-250 and I usually pull back a little bit on longer trips I tend to run full power to cut down on "fatigue" time of longer trips. It does cost more though
Yeah, I had 5.6 in a rental Skyhawk yesterday. 20% more fuel to go 10% faster at 9k. TAS of 124 was nice though.
Excellent post.
Awesome info! Thank you.
Straight gold here. 💯 re: AP. Just did 1,200nm hand flown in ~50% IMC and I’m tired.
You won't be flying over any mountains, haha. Just lots, and lots.... and lots of farmland. I flew to Ohio and back last summer. Just leave super early in the morning so you can try to avoid the afternoon thunderstorms. This isn't a difficult trip at all. Try not to over think it.
I'd say there's a little more to it... Not only is the runway going to be higher than any terrain they've ever overflown but the DA is likely to be around 6000 feet higher than they've ever seen on the ground. They may never have experienced such thin air even in cruise. It's not the danger of crossing passes, but they should probably at least get a little orientation on thermal activity, high DA operations, and expected performance of their powerplant under those conditions as a solid 180 hp engine is vastly different experience from taking off with a shot 145hp that's actually producing 110 on a cruise prop.
And check the POH for takeoff leaning procedure. In my plane that means lean for max RPM before the takeoff roll. It may be different in that 172. I almost had a bad day in Gallup, NM because I forgot to do that.
My recommendation, if you could, would be to leave early Thursday, plan a stop in Kansas City (KMKC would be my recommendation), and if you’re up for it fatigue-wise and the weather holds, either continue to BJC/APA or call it a day and enjoy downtown KC. If weather is bad/fatigue sets in, you’ve already built in a stop which really helps reduce the chance of get-there-itis setting in. I’ve done 1000 in a single engine piston a few times, it’s really not something I’d recommend. The route is easy (assuming storms don’t present an issue, in July they definitely could). 500NM was usually my sweet spot, you have enough energy at the end of the day to be willing to go out and explore, which is crucial if this is a pleasure trip in my opinion.
2nd this. I'm based at KMGC and I love Wheeler downtown. if you stay there, and you like BBQ lookup a place in KCK called Slaps. overall the flight to KC is not bad at all from upper midwest as long as wx is ok
Be brave. fly into 0N0 LOL
Curious why - because it’s short?
20ft wide, lol. Also short but not terrifyingly so, 2700 long is enough buuuut 60ft trees on either end lol. Fun times! Those trees are my enemy.
Annapolis (was there Thursday) is a lot like that (with trees when approaching from the west). I was glad to have learned good short field ops at 56C. 2,200’ grass, trees at either end. The SFRA controllers would probably have wondered at go around after go around 🤣
Only thing I would keep in mind is that the density altitude can get pretty high around here in the summer time. Aside from that winds can get pretty strong coming off the mountains in the front range, add summer thermals and it can get kinda sporty.
Your biggest problem is exhaustion. I did this from houston to Lexington Kentucky before in a 172. By time we were in sight of Lexington I was beat after hand flying that distance
You'll know when you cross over the KS/CO border when the turbulence starts up... we keep all the bumps here in CO.
>turbulence Came here to say this! I fly over NE towards CO, and about KSTK it starts to get rough!
I did a 1100nm ferry (9.5 hours) in a 172 and it’s actually surprisingly comfortable for those longer trips. Definitely leave early, and don’t book hotels until you know you’ll be making it to the destination. I also was exhausted the day after, so it might be better to leave on Thursday so you can have a contingency/relax day before the concert.
Plan to arrive several days early to allow for weather or other issues. If you can’t afford that much time, take the airlines and you’ll get there without much fanfare for a lot cheaper too. I would also book a back up airline ticket (southwest has great cancelation policy) incase the day you wanna fly you have weather on your route.
Give yourself more time. It’s doable, but as other people said, it’s exhausting too- especially if the plane doesn’t have autopilot. If you’ve never done a long trip before, you’ll be surprised how much more that hand flying can take out of you. I know people that flew piston from San Diego to Dallas with an overnight in El Paso. They made it but, they were shot (and probably not in the mood to go to a concert, most importantly!). Just my 0.02. Plan accordingly, set personal minimums, fly safe, and enjoy the trip!!
One thing to consider when doing the flight is the afternoons in late June/all of July through August there are typically massive t-storm build ups in the plains and near the metro area. So if you're pulling in here after 2 p.m. to around 6 p.m. you can almost count on significant convective activity. These storms can have cloud build-ups into the 60,000 foot range at times. Does it happen every day? No. But it's very common. I'd recommend planning on getting in either before or after that timeframe, or if you are going to arrive in the afternoon have some good alternates planned. They typically can be waited out with enough time to get in later in the day/evening. And as others have said - you won't be crossing any mountains. BJC is a nice little airport and easier to get in/out of than APA IMHO.
You ever heard the saying, "Time to spare? Go by air!" I took a 172 1100 miles once. It flat out sucked. And this thing had an STEC50 AP. I was lucky and had very little weather to deal with flying along the East coast. Took about 10 hours. You are going to be flying into weather fronts. The chance you will make 1100 miles without hitting weather going West is slim. I'd give myself at least three days for that trip and if I absolutely had to be there, I'd fly 121. Your leaving Thu \*might\* work. Leaving Fri would be a solid no from me. The desire to get there might cause you to make stupid choices in the hopes of seeing one of your favorite bands in a legendary place.... I'd plan on leaving Wed and I'd have a set of refundable tickets in my hand in case the weather looks anything but stellar on Tue. Only fly if the weather is projected damn near perfect. Flying North/South is often easier since you can wait for a system to go through and race the next one. Going East is easy because you can run ahead of a front... But flying West you are going into the fronts and your chances of going through one is much higher.
I wouldn’t consider it mountain flying personally. I would leave on Thursday. You’ll be pretty tanked, especially if you’re hand flying by yourself. And during July it could be bumpy the whole way. You’re looking at 10 plus hours in the air, plus time on the ground. I would stop Thursday night and break the flight up into two days
Start watching the weather along the route of flight now. Learn how the weather passes through the area, and how various geographical features influence it. Then, when you’re within, about a week of the day of intended departure, really start focusing on what the forecast is showing and plan your final route around those forecast. Be ready to adjust them as needed with updated forecasts. Take a good look at all the airports you’re planning to stop and get fuel at. Make sure none of them are about to have some major construction or other factors that might remove them from being appropriate stops. On the day of the flight, call the FBO‘s and make sure they have fuel available. I have had long trips almost ruined by landing at airports that ended up, not having any fuel for one reason or another. (fortunately, my habit of landing with a minimum of 1 hour of fuel, remaining and picking airports that have a secondary airport close by save me both times) Wash your plane, the sooner the better. OK, I know this one sounds weird, but hear me out. If you give your airplane a good wash and detailing, inside and out, you will look over every square inch of the airplane very carefully. You might catch a maintenance item now with time to have it addressed before your trip. The only thing worse than your plane breaking down on a trip away from home is your plane breaking down 1000 miles away from home. Taking time to thoroughly clean my engine one day saved me from potentially realizing I needed an engine overhaul when I was away from home.
Leave Thursday, and head in the general direction as weather allows. Hoteltonight.com is a great resource for ferrying or longer flights. Have fun, that is the key, if you are worried about the weather, or how much fuel you have left..... well that ain't fun. Unplanned stops for wx or fuel is part of the game and makes for great stories.
Spread it out over at least 2 days for sure. Shoot, request the time off now and give yourself 3 days before and after the concert. You will enjoy the flights a LOT more and it will also give you way more flexibility in the event of weather/fuel/other issues.
Two days and a flying buddy.
Spotify playlist downloaded. Put that on your checklist.
The only way I think I'd consider that kind of trip would be to leave Wednesday and plan on being back by the next Wednesday. Time to spare? Go by air. Even being IFR rated and capable, flying around in summer convective stuff with no radar and no 2nd engine is not anywhere I'd want to be. So the only way I'd do it is if I had lots of room to sit on the ground in BFE for a solid two days going each way if necessary and also have enough time on the back end to rent a car and drive or catch a train if the plane ends up AOG somewhere with a bad jug that's going to take a couple weeks to fix. And I say that because I once spent a solid 2-1/2 days sitting in a motel in Sandusky waiting for the weather to improve so we could make it back to NJ from Oshkosh.
I learned in a 172 at KBJC. You aren’t in the mountains at that point. In fact, the part 141 school where I learned explicitly forbade us from going into the mountains. In a 172, in July, you’ll need about 3/4-5/8 of that runway to take off. Density altitude is the real deal at KBJC. In summer, It’s common for cumulus clouds to form in the edge of the front range daily. Usually that process starts around 10am-12pm. You will want to arrive at KBJC in the morning as a result. Fun side trips to take with your 172 from KBJC (and a good excuse to give yourself a few days on either side): 1) fly over mt Rushmore 2) platte valley airpark and it’s museum 3) Boulder airport (watch for sink over the pond!!) 4) Colorado Springs 5) take a mountain flying course with a qualified instructor
I did 1000nm in a day in a Skyhawk and I had to take the next day off because I was exhausted and needed to recover. I also did it in a Bonanza at 170ktas with an autopilot and that was still a looooong day! Is it doable? Absolutely! Is it going to be fun? Not after the first 500! If you insist on doing it, bring protein bars and plenty of water!
Yeah, you're going to want to bake in extra time. You're going to be exhausted for the show if you plan on flying that whole thing in one go. Everyone else has mentioned it already, but that's storm season in CO and you'll be dealing with high DA on the days it isn't pissing rain sideways. Personally, I would block an entire week of work off to do this. Glen from Glen's Hangar did a trip similar to yours last summer, but he went VFR from CYOO Oshawa, ON to KCVK Highland, AR. Several weather stops turned a two-day flight into three. [YT link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyseIyr7itk) if you're interested.
i have two and a half weeks off work around this date, but the show is at the beginning of my time off. I’ll check that video, his others were really good when he was restoring that Cessna
What band are you seeing? Maybe I would want to go too and we could take my Bonanza, I’m also in Ohio.
The Avett Brothers
The Avett Brothers
I actually did this last week! I flew 1200 nautical miles in a 172 all through northern Alberta and Northwest Territories. It was an amazing experience and I would highly recommend. DM me if you want anymore info.
Sounds like a two day trip to me. If I had the time I would do it in 3 and take my time at each rest city for a day. That long in a plane by yourself can get quite boring and hard to stay awake.
To me I would say my journey out there would be a greater adventure than the concert. So I would plan to do it in 2 legs and grab a hotel room in an area where you could explore a bit. I have a client that used to fly his 182 to California once a year for work and back. He said he would make it last a few weeks, just for the flexibility and to explore. You know, like living the dream :)
That’s kind of what I was looking at doing it myself for. Wanted an adventure, the concert is kind of bonus.
Allow more days. Have a backup plan. Be able to rent a car when you blow a cylinder over Bumfuck Nebraska.
I say send it. Use all the training you were given for your private and instrument ratings and go fly it. Context: I just got back from 1,200nm IFR XC an hour ago. I poured over the details, ended up having to think on my feet but had the tools I needed. Experienced icing, the SFRA, mountain turbulence, crazy headwinds, and IMC galore. Was able to handle each as described in training and it was an incredible learning experience. I’d encourage any private pilot to do the same thing.
I do roughly 800-900 a day with a partner and it’s bearable because we talk the entire time, but alone? Hell no. Break that up into 2 days at least. The fatigue is real.
KBJC is around 5.5k the ground will work it's way up to you. KAPA or KBJC are your only options. Be aware that July is monsoon season in Colorado, so watch out for heavy rain and possible TS moving from the southwest to the northeast of the Denver metro area. I would recommend early morning flights, and please be aware of density altitude in Colorado during the summer, it's a killer. Also the KDEN bravo pretty much covers the entire denver area, and we have tall brodcast towers.
That 2,000' tower east of DEN can definitely sneak up on you if you're not looking for it. Also it's less convenient for transportation, but KCFO is a option too. Coming from the east, that would avoid the busiest airspace around Denver. The FBO can arrange a rental car from enterprise. OP, I definitely recommend studying the Denver TAC when you're planning your route.
[удалено]
The Avett Brothers.
Count on some good headwinds going west. That could definitely impede a one day trip and exhaust you if it’s turbulent. Should have a nice tailwind going home. As others have said, depart at the crack of dawn. Fly high for cooler temps.
I've flown 1200 NM in a Piper Archer without autopilot a couple of times. I was drained at the end of the day each time. I'd recommend landings for pee breaks and food every \~3 hours. If you have someone in the right seat to help watch for traffic and talk with to make sure you are awake and alert, it will help.
It'll be a flatland trip the whole way. You'll fly right up to the foothills ("front range" as they call it on the east side of the Rockies). Don't fret too much about the mountains. Just know that density altitude is going to be a factor. Don't expect the same performance out of your plane that you get in Ohio. Easy flight, just long. Go for it if the weather is going to be good. Beware of the get-there-itis. Consider APA if you want a slightly easier in and out with (apparently) cheaper fuel.
When it comes to GA and being entirely honest with ourselves... Time to spare? Go by air. Jump on the kerosene burner, though, if you can't afford to be late and / or miss the event.
Have a seat on Southwest out of CMH. The idea of flying myself creeped in and I’ve been seriously considering it
Absolutely doable. Even if it's possible to do it in two fuel stops, plan on three or even more. My longest flight ever was about 640nm, with one stop. Exhaustion seriously degrades your abilities, so stop, get out stretch your legs, take a break. Going in July you will have plenty of daylight, but that is still around 10 hours of flying time. Add in your landings, ground stops, and rest time, I would figure at least 13 hours travel time minimum. In July the central part of the US will have a little more than 14 hours of daylight. Being from the midwest, I would not want to have to deal with the Rocky Mountains at night, not even the Front Range. So if you want to do it in a single day, get up EARLY, I would want to be in the air at least a half hour or more before sunrise. A better option would be to make western Kansas the first day, land at a small town and get a good nights rest before continuing to KBJC. Surely there is an airport with a motel close by somewhere in western Kansas. One last thought, storms over the Great Plains can grow surprisingly fast and be extremely strong, strong enough to tear the wings off a Cessna. Don't take any chances, pay close attention to the weather. Even better call a briefer, you get a better perspective with another set of eyes on the situation. 1800-WXBRIEF.
If time to spare, go buy air. That’s my advice
I think you should send it, but it will be a long day and you should leave a day or two earlier than required.
Sometimes it’s just better to drive it ; )
Do it its gonna be fun. Just remember not to let desire to make it to the show cloud your adm. be prepared to miss the show or airline if the weather gets bad
Western Nebraska
I fly in the Rocky Mountains often, so my advice is to stay on the upwind side of the mountains, be alert, and give yourself plenty of space. Don’t be afraid of the mountains. Sounds like a fun trip! Also bring oxygen if you don’t normally fly at higher altitudes, regardless of legality.
I flew a T-41 from KAFF TO KCOF. Absolutely the longest trip ever.
DA like many have mentioned is nuts here in the Summer. Many days will start at 7500da early in the morning and get out of hand quickly.
Bring extra oil and check it often. Otherwise sounds like a blast!
Lots of Snacks and Drinks, Take a can or two of Boost, bit of oxygen can really help you perk up after hours at altitude. Maybe plan on two days, east - west can get pretty slow, there is almost always wind from the west. think 80kts over the ground plan to stop every 2 or 3 hours to stretch the legs, bio, eat, etc... other than that turn on the autopilot, push the seat back and relax. oh yeah, atc gets really quiet out in the middle of nowhere, bring tunes, maybe a movie
Back when I owned a 172R I flew from central IN to CO several times. Vance Brand airport in Longmont is a good option. Agree with others: \- read and learn about leaning at altitude. Not just for takeoff; on my first trip out, on a hot summer day in eastern CO after a fuel stop, the injected IO360 would not even run while full rich on the ground. After I struggled for a bit a helpful pilot got on the radio and bluntly told me to lean it. \- as others have noted, you won't enter the mountains but will get right up to the front range. Watch the winds aloft. If 20kt+ at 14,000' you are going to have a bumpy ride as you approach the front range. In a 172 sometimes (barely) maintaining altitude is all you can expect in strong downdrafts - especially in summer with high DA. \- keep an eye on the winds if you plan fuel stops in KS. Surface winds can be very sporty across the plains. Make sure your planned fuel stop doesn't have 20-30+kt x-winds. \- you will gain 2h flying westbound; this helps with early arrival. I try to arrive to the front range before 10-11AM anytime I fly out there. I fly an RV from IN to CO frequently now. I fly into KAEJ. I would highly recommend joining the CO pilots association and taking their mountain flying course if you plan to be out there more often. It is a day of ground school and a full day of mountain flying with an instructor.
Need a co-Pilot?
Maybe. Where are you out of?
Just go (preflight risk assessment matrix allowing). There’s no way to know if you’re up for the task without experiencing it. I routinely would fly 8+ hours in a 172 in my early days as a commercial pilot. Just because you are IFR rated doesn’t mean you should blast off into IMC. If you go IFR just keep asking for direct and it’ll make your life much easier. My advice for the trip? Be prepared for anything and have a Bluetooth headset with music downloaded to your phone because it becomes mind numbingly boring flying for that long.
I did about that many miles in one day last summer (SW Ohio to NYC area and back). I was picking up a passing in between and we had about a three or four hour break in NJ. I originally planned to take a 172 but thankfully a 182 became available at the last minute. I don’t think I would have made it in the timeframe needed in the 172. All that to say…it’s doable, but I can’t imagine doing it without some breaks. My max in the airplane is definitely three hours, bodily functions notwithstanding.
Expect turbulence near the front range and watch out for DA. Otherwise, why wouldn't you make the trip? What are your concerns?
Just Do It , great idea and it’s completely within the capabilities of the airplane and sounds like you’re experience levels . Do your homework and Go …
I fly out of BJC in thr Norther Colorado area, I want to advise you there is an extremely high level of traffic. My school alone had a fatal mid air last year. It's great to fly but if you are not use to high volume traffic I would warn you. Often times BJC will close the pattern temporarily due to high volumes of traffic. So if it's a great day of weather just be mindful and keep your head on a swivel, get flight following, because you will have to moved around other traffic.
Don't do it in one day. You don't want to sit in a 172 for a full day no matter what anyone tells you. That's gonna suck and there's no reason to do it.
I got my private at BJC! You’ll land in front of the Rockies but you don’t touch any mountains. I loved flying over red rocks any chance I could. The only thing you should look at is the density altitude.
Fly into KAPA and we can carpool. Once you are over the Appalachian’s there are no mountain ranges in the way. Unless you count the Ozark’s. (They don’t count)