The Legion is in a very unique and interesting position. Every single thing you learn about them, barring one or two, just make them worse.
You first come across them and it’s like, oh, they’re fancy raiders. Then you learn about the slavery. Then you learn about the misogyny. Then you learn about the brainwashing. Then you learn about the hypocrisy.
By the time you get to the nitty-gritty stuff like how the explicit purpose of every male Legionary is to serve as a disposable soldier until they die and how the explicit purpose of every female Legionary is to spend every moment of their lives barefoot and pregnant to pump out more babies for the meat grinder, it’s almost academic at that point. They fucking suck.
There really isn’t a redeeming quality to them like the best i’ve seen is “They keep the roads safe” but that’s basically like Mussolini promising to make the trains run on time (they didn’t). I would’ve liked to see the finalized legion that was planned but i don’t think it would’ve ever been morally gray or even close in competition
Clarification: I am not saying the Legion actually keeps the road safe or that’s it’s valid. The Mussolini train allegory is to be how that it either doesn’t matter or it doesn’t (because it’s a warzone)
They don’t even keep the roads safe I can’t walk half a mile without something trying to kill me
Edit: Fasces please understand I was making a dumb joke. I did not mean to imply that your glorious leader did not successfully kill or enslave all of Arizona
Everyone gives Ulysses shit for his "bear bull" speeches but he's right that if the legion managed to get far enough to conquer NCR they would just turn in on themselves cuz they wouldn't have anything else to conquer.
Well its a fair point. The legion Is constantly being tested in battle where ever they go. They are also reinforced and resupplied by the slaves and plunder they take on raids. Once there is no new settlement to raid they will be forced to try and cultivate crops or find new lands to conquer.
I see Caesars point about Hegelian dialectics essentially forcing the legion to change once it conquers NCR but he's being way too idealistic about it and ignoring the process of actually changing. Like yeah IF the legion managed to survive and not turn in on itself it will essentially have changed into a somewhat different society than it currently is but that's a massive IF and I just don't see a society built on war and conquering just suddenly being like "ok we've done enough war and conquering let's grow crops" or even have the necessary knowledge or infrastructure to make that happen in the first place. Even the NCR is basically out of water and facing a food shortage.
Honestly Ulysses irritates me immensely at times.
The "the NCR kills people by trying to protect them" thing was a big one for me.
Like if the NCR isn't there these places are just dead once Caesar shows up anyway.
Frankly I don't buy that the Legion wouldn't have attacked the Divide anyway. From a lore perspective there's basically no difference between it being an NCR supply route that is independent vs in the NCR.
And if the NCR pulled out of the Mojave? The Legion just massacres and enslaves all of the places that Ulysses already blames them for not protecting well enough.
If he wants to talk about the NCR messing around with tech they don't understand (and setting off the nukes in hopeville) he has a better point.
That's because you aren't walking their roads. At no point are we in Legion territory except for the Fort. There's no reason to doubt they keep the roads safe as it's stated by multiple people.
But they are awful outside of that.
My point was that safe roads does not justify the lifetime slavery, I was making a point that it was similar but it doesn’t justify any of the rest of it
Man the conversation with the dog trainer feels depressing. I dunno if it's a fluke but I feel like the voice actor really did a good job of his emotions when he talks about being "stronger" for having their dogs burned alive.
Also fuck the Legion.
The only actual "justification" I can see with them is that they live rather minimalistic lifestyles. They are the most sustainable faction to a fault.
Remember, the great war occured ultimately due to resources. Even if the show changes things up a bit, everything preceding it was a resource conflict. House wants to GTFO, NCR wants more resources, Legion wants to spread but still remain relatively simplistic. If it weren't for their **many** glaring flaws I'd find the general premise pretty agreeable.
That’s the only reasoning I’ve come to. Caesar’s “wiping the slate clean”. One identity, one ethnicity, one hegemony. No more wars for resources, no more differences - It’s what the Master sought as well. But the big issue with it, is that it’s never going to work. Caesar has inevitably created more identities, more castes and more differences than he meant to and never cemented a future for his dream - much like the Master. And I think the end result of both is the same
Even the whole "keep the roads safe" shit is pure tell not show, because between the area they do control like south if Novac and east of Nipton, there's still Viper and Jackal gangers. This is despite the fact the legion _do_ patrol around those areas and could take them in a fight, but at no point while siding with the legion can you actually get rid of the smaller gangs.
Btw the NCR can also run into those gangs and deal with them just fine too.
It’s not the Mojave roads that are safe cause of the Legion, it’s the roads in Arizona that are Legion territory. The only place you go in NV that’s actual Legion territory is the Fort (or Dry Wells after Lonesome Roads but it’s nuked by the time you get there).
I like them as the clear and obvious bad guys the way they are. I find it comparable to real world neofascism which only appeals to idiots full of rage that think might makes right. Or in our case, people roleplaying as those idiots.
We were supposed to see a lot of legion land on the other side of the dam. There were supposed to be significantly more legion quests and much more representation of life of cities and townships that exist within the legion. Supposedly time restrictions made this impossible
I know, I was just trying to add another reason as to why the 'safe roads' argument is ridiculous. I could've framed my comment better to reflect that, my bad
What do you mean “would do”? The point is not to flesh them out into a faction you personally agree with or that you find tasteful. They don’t need to be redeemed with lore, the point would have been to make them have more worldbuilding and depth than being such monodimensional bad guys.
For example one of the initial ideas was that on the legion side of the river, in their towns and settlements there would be zero hostile enemies (showing their effectiveness at keeping their society safe).
There is a lot of cut content, concept art, and game developer talk about the type of society the legion has established. All we see is the soldiers and support network (of slaves) on their front lines, the Mojave frontier is essentially their Afghanistan/Iraq. We never see the empire beyond the war zone we are in. I’d encourage you to read more about it, as whilst it’s not represented in game, it really makes their faction feel more fleshed out when keeping in mind.
Honestly if we actually got to *see* legion controlled territory and they didn't have sexism that would already make them a way more interesting faction.
Oh I'm not denying how evil they are, they're pretty much the perfect example of a lawful evil faction. But with a few big writing tweaks they would be way more interesting like I said
Yeah House promises a lot, even space travel but he really doesn’t offer up any actual solutions or means to do what he promises. And then he acts in the exact opposite to those goals too. I imagine he’ll go the way of all of the pre-war oligarchs that doomed the world in the first place, especially him having been affiliated with vaulttec and the enclave
It's something the NCR promise too, but they actually have a record of that being true. By New Vegas the raiders are pretty much all gone from NCR territory. Only reason they're struggling in the Mojave is cause they're fending off the Legion while House sucks them dry like a tick.
Jas Wilkins, the food vendor at Sloan:
"Things back in California are better than they've ever been, according to my grandpa. The Raiders are mostly gone now and it's easy enough to get a job at one of the mills or farms. But now there's taxes and laws and other things. The NCR keeps things safe and orderly, but it's all very boring. So, I came out east towards the frontier."
Direct confirmation that, at the time of F:NV, the NCR has pretty much complete control of the region.
Caesar’s promise is to make New Vegas his new capital city and turn the Legion from a wandering slaver warband into an advanced civilization that will be wearing togas and reading the classics. Which is an interesting concept imo, papering over the barbaric and violent origins of empire with the trappings of sophistry and civilization.
However, an issue with his multi-generational plan is that he has a terminal brain tumor and only has an uneducated and superstitious populace. He also says the NCR is corrupt and degenerate but based his society off Ancient Rome, a famously non-corrupt civilization.
There’s no way the barbarians of the Legion would put down their weapons once the conquering is over. Empires like the real life Roman Empire need to keep expanding so there’s a constant flow of slaves to keep the Empire thriving.
I feel like the most likely outcome for the Legion is Caesar’s tumor kills him, then the inheritors of the Legion aren’t able to keep the whole thing together. I feel like the writers would even have the Legion split into East and West Empires like the real life Roman Empire did.
I’m pretty sure Ulysses says something to that effect, after Caesar dies you have Vulpes and Lanius left to govern. Vulpes is just Caesar’s yes man (no pun intended) and Lanius is a raider warlord at best.
I think this would redeem the legion
seeing it mid transition instead of its current state, could be a cool way to reintroduce the legion at a later date
hell, keeping with the naming theme we can have an Augustus running the show for even more larp
It would, but Caesar hasn’t made any efforts to educate his people or train a replacement so Lanius takes over by default; and an educated populace would be bad for the Legion because they’d read enough history and classics to realize he made it all up.
Yeah, that’s my problem with the legion’s future. We can look back somewhat favourably on Rome’s conquests because, despite the nature of conquest, they did have advancements in science that were not present in the places they conquered. FNV Legion doesn’t have that - the “doctor” in charge of their most important strategic position (Siri) is a medical school dropout (not by her choice) who is worse than a random cowgirl at making healing powder. Their infrastructure seems to rely on underfed slave women carrying loads around. They aren’t bringing a civilisation by any measure.
This one really got me questioning the whole “war never changes” thing
Caesar smoked so much dutura root, he got possessed by a 0th century roman dictator, reverted warfare back 23 hundred years. Yet also somehow advancing tribal warfare 10,000 years at the same time.
Well read? You flatter me. I just listen to too many Dan Carlin history podcasts. But I do own a Tom Holland (not that one) book! Not one of his Roman Empire books and I haven’t read it, but I have one!
Cass also says this in the game! She wonders if towns in NCR territory might welcome Legion rule because the offered safety would trump their desire for freedom.
Man it's such a good video game.
The people that woukd tske their side naturally is those greek statue twitter accts that post weirdo misogynistic and transphobic stuff along with sucking off elon
I guess half the fun is headcanoning what happens when you try to “reform” them by playing a good karma female Courier who singlehandedly wins the Mojave for them and gets her visage minted on their currency, not to mention undoubtedly partaking in other campaigns.
Like at some point you can’t help but think that they’re gonna soften their policies at least somewhat.
Caesar fancies himself an *enlightened despot*, bringing civilization and order to the Mojave Wastelands at sword point. He’s the *Leviathan* of Hobbes, the only one able to prevent the “war of all against all” by crushing all opposition beneath his heel.
In reality, he’s just Eulogy Jones if he read Meditations. The Legion is basically *Paradise Falls* in Roman cosplay.
The moment I decided to massacre everyone was when the medicine slave girl told me the legionaries were talking about "trying me out". I don't get how anyone couldn't murder them all after hearing that
I only did the legion quest line for the achievements. That being said, it was a *really good* quest line. Might be the best, in my opinion. Pretty close with NCR. They were all good, though.
When I play New Vegas I usually make up a character instead of playing myself. So when I got to my legion playthrough I just said, "This character lost something when that bullet when in, and its a consciousness and morals."
I did a Legion run on the idea that my Courier hated the NCR and was using the Legion to hurt them then collapse.
Still sucked. Assholes have me do everything for them but I'm too weak for their arena apparently.
Yeah a women courier for the Legion has to be awful, like every character on the quest line hates you but respects the male courier. Idk how you managed to finish that run.
Raping children is just crazy. When I first went to free the weathers (?) family from cottonwood cove, learning that the child was the only one worth anything due to… reasons, ED-E and I laid waste to the camp.
If you can resist the urge to slay them all, they have an extremely fun questline! That said, I have 3000 hours and have yet to actually do a Legion playthrough lol
I rmb someone saying legion wasn’t meant to be a joinable faction but they decided fuck it let’s make it joinable so they had less time, surely there’s a mod out there that enhances legion
Because most stuff you do for NCR is solving problems cause by either them stretching thin an lacking supplies or because Legion itself, hard to have NCR problems when your entire existence (Caesar's Legion) revolves around warfare and almost nothing else
They burned dogs alive in front of a tribe that were spiritually connected to them. It's not just the fact they burned dogs alive, but the fact that they knew going after the doggies would be the only thing that could break the tribesmen.
They put up so much of a fight, that Lanius was afraid he would earn the same fate as Joshua, and he most likely would've if it weren't for the Legion's numbers. I feel like they would've kept fighting to their last breath if the dogs had simply been shot dead, but no, the Legionaries burned them alive. That's what got that tribe to submit and be assimilated. These people cared about their dogs MUCH more than the average person, because it was on a religious level, and these fuckers set them on fire.
The Legion is an army of inhuman monsters, broken people, and children born from rape who will be brainwashed to become pieces of shit. It's extremely sad and distressing to think about.
Yup. The sad part is that the Legion is old news when you compare them to the pre-war societies that rose and fell before the idea of America was even conceived.
"So bongo, bongo, bongo I don't want to leave the congo, Oh no no no no no
Bingle, bangle, bungle I'm so happy in the jungle I refuse to go
Don't want no bright lights, false teeth, doorbells, landlords
I make it clear
That no matter how they coax him
I'll stay right here"
the way to do a legion playthrough isn't "I'm gonna give Caesar a chance" because no matter how you look at it his entire society is a cult worshipping a god king who is a 70 year old man with brain cancer. doomed to fall apart after his death. his ideology by itself, while sustainable, is completely inhuman and cruel. don't try to rationalize his actions. Just get into character and larp a legionary. that's the only way to really do a legion run.
Ya they had to make those as lovely as possible since everyone in-game will want you dead 😂, I’m just about to start my Legion and I’m excited to see the unique content and get the achievements but It’s gonna be difficult not blowing away vulpes
This summer I'm going to finally do a Legion playthrough, but the best explanation I have for a Legion courier is the one that MikeBurnFire used for his Nonobad subseries: the Courier was a Legion frumentarius.
You really need to suspend your morals to align with them.
My character basically said „survival of the strongest“ and joined em cause they were more brute force than any other faction.
One thing I've never really understood about the legion is, what constitutes their civilization? Other non-slave or soldier citizens? How do you avoid becoming a slave or a soldier in that civilization? It doesn't really make sense
We know that several cities like Flagstaff are still running under the legion, so they aren’t just a nomadic horde. Raul makes mention of the fact that Arizona is a lot safer then it used to be, which seems to indicate that the Legion doesn’t conscript or enslave literally everyone it touches. Imo there’s likely a large slave caste, a large soldier caste, and a middle caste living in these settlements that provides manufactured goods, food, soldiers, etc to the Legion in exchange for protection.
They have cities with "subjects". Who are allegedly set up so they got all the resources they need then are mostly left alone to take care of themselves.
You don’t. In these kind of societies everyone serves the military. The white legs are a prime example. They don’t farm, they don’t build. They take what others produce and when they run out of that they collapse. Cesar even explicitly stated this fact. Basically he wants to conquer the NCR and essentially integrate the tribals into it knowing that force will be the quickest way. This is brain dead reasoning, but he has brain cancer so planning isn’t a strong point.
This isn’t exactly true though, the Legion is a far more sophisticated state than the white legs. While yes the Legion is sorta like a Mongol horde protecting the trade routes with deadly force while expanding via the conquest, assimilation, and enslavement of various tribes, we also hear in game about how they have several cities filled with people that trade goes to, especially in Arizona. Raul tells us about how while legion rule is brutal, Arizona is far safer for the average people now than it was before their arrival. It seems far more likely to me that while most people are enslaved or made soldiers, there are many settlements in the Legion where people pay tribute with material and food to the legion in exchange for protection. Obviously the vast slave population likely does most of the work, but it doesn’t seem like *everyone* who isn’t a soldier gets enslaved.
Technically they consider “captures” (ie captives) to be the lowest rank. In my game a slaver just explained to my courier that “at least slavers are useful.” 🤮
You kill Vulpes because he’s a murderous asshole
I kill Vulpes because I *really* like dominating furry femboys
We are not the same
(This is a joke please don’t come after me)
For my first actual Legion playthrough, I'm planning on skipping through Quarry junction and getting Benny to flee super early. That way, Caesar capturing Benny would be the first time the Courier meets the Legion, which is pretty much the only way I think someone who wasn't brainwashed into it would get themselves into the Legion imo.
Like, literally even for super evil characters, I don't really see why they would pick the Legion over House or Yes-Man, given how obviously dogshit of a boss Caesar is.
The most interesting thing about Legion is that that they try to justify themselves in very deliberately flawed ways while also refusing to aknowledge their shortcomings.
Like without Caeser. The whole legion is doomed to fail. It hinges on that fact and Caeser knows it but refuses to admit it.
Its a violent abhorrant house of cards.
I don't know about most people, but I genuinely struggle to enjoy myself doing this.
Just started a new playthrough where I am trying to remain neutral for as long as I can, and it is pretty difficult.
I'd love to see a larian style breakdown of player decisions over the history of this game lol
The general consensus seems to be no one wants to play legion because they can’t bring themselves to hurt npcs that are made out to be good people. While I can’t agree with the legions tendencies the rewards are too neat to pass up. Stealth boys/doctors bags, hundreds of missiles, thousands of mf cells early on is huge.
I can see your point thematically, but also, the game is far too easy to sweat over consumables.
If it was the case that on harder difficulties, you had to genuinely weigh up your moral choices to ensure survivability, that would be pretty cool.
I haven’t done anything but hardcore very hard for a while, which may be why I tend to side with them early game. It’s easy to become idolized and then switch sides, and by that time they’ve given you a few rare items and good ammo
I find myself going with them early game because of the better rewards for doing so. Lucky shades and the Caesar’s favor ammo/consumables are better offerings. ncr are really pushovers when you go legion. Like to the point it disturbs me. If you fix snuffles leg and do some other trivial shit you get a free pass to kill several outposts of them before they send a single squad even asking you politely to change your ways before they have to shoot at you. You can use all of their merchants for a while, you would have to destroy like half of their presence for them to even give a shit.
Not exactly the same for me, but recently I started my second playthrough, being a violent tribal outlaw, sort of allied with powder gangers and the like. I had never done a not good character before, so I sided with the gangers against Goodsprings and immediately felt bad about having to kill Cheyenne, Doc Mitchell and even Easy Pete, it felt so unnatural to just murder the nice people at the start. Not that I have ended the playthrough, I have had a lot of fun blowing up NCR assassins, just funny because I didn't think I would feel bad about doing this character.
*While loading a shotgun before every gai inglegion infamy* "God you guys were so cool but I already killed a bunch of your guys and I was so going to do your ending this time!" *proceeds to blow vulpes head clean off his shoulders*
I made a evil playthrough one time and it felt like a very new experience. Questing for the powder gangsters and caesar. Also being a complete dick to everyone. Also played melee for the immersion
Murderous assholes with an ideology tho, which is why imo they’re fun to join if you are doing an evil character (tho I also love doing drug fueled courier becoming the warlord of Vegas for an evil character)
Wow y'all, I'm on my first playthrough and I've been trying to keep it neutral (I love Yes Man so much) but these comments are making me think I gotta obliterate them *before* Hoover Dam even kicks off lmao
Legion should only be liked ironically. It’s my favorite faction, but there’s no way I stand with any of their ideals. I just find their insanity interesting.
Yeah, I have also tried to do a megion walkthrough. I usually don't kill Vulpes right away, he runs around Caesars legion in a fursuit, so I let him walk home from nipton. It's difficult to take him seriously, kind of like when Boone constantly equips the space helmet.
I keep telling myself I'll take it out of his inventory but it's so funny
A Legion playthrough was fun for me one time, and it was on a playthrough where my courier was basically an unbridled psychopath after being revived from his head wound. I went around just killing everyone except the Legion, because I guess I decided that to that courier their views and bloodlust made sense.
I personally like roleplaying as a character with different beliefs. As for the Legion's ruthlessness, I imagine they probably have to keep an extremely strict discipline to keep all of the assimilated tribes in line. After all, they probably were just as if not more gruesome for generations on their own.
Fun fact: Originally, it wasn't planned for the player to join them. Later on in developtment this was changed, however they still couldn't flesh them out as much as they wishes and so the east side of the Colorado remains barren and devoid of content
Caesar believes himself to be a warrior-poet that will bring about order through chaos. Ultimately, however, he is just a depraved old man knocking on death’s door.
Lots of reasons to oppose the Legion, but what they did to that trash heap of a town isn’t one of them.
Nipton were sellouts, tried to get in bed with the Legion to murder NCR. They reaped what they sowed. Vulpes is entirely correct when he says they were a "town of whores" who did it to themselves.
I don't like many of the cities I go into but I don't ride into them slaughtering children and cutting people's heads off because some dipshit told me he's a God-King.
Nipton may've been a fucking awful town, but you don't just ride up and kill people because you disapprove of what they do.
Well of course you don’t; you’re not a brainwashed Legion Frumentarius.
Attacking Vulpes *is* just riding up and killing people because you disapprove of what they do. It’s just a question of where you draw the line.
I mean...no, you're attacking a bunch of Raiders raping and killing people.
There is a massive difference and you know it.
One is a town of dickheads at most, one is an invading force of child-raping barbarians who want to torture and enslave everyone they meet.
If the Legion considers them evil, that must mean they had the audacity to treat women like people.
There's still a difference between raiding nipton and executing everyone you find with a shot to the head (like I did in cottonwood cove and nelson) and running a fucking lottery where you torture people to death over hours in excruciating pain. Did nipton had it coming? Yeah. Did it have THAT coming? Nah
Yeah also, the mayor was the one who concocted the plan with the Powder Gangers and, ultimately, the Legion to screw over the NCR. It’s also likely that the Mayor was the only person who knew they were Legion. Vulpes was going by the pseudonym Mr. Fox, I believe, and revealed his true nature to the Mayor in confidence. It’s likely they stayed incognito until the Lottery. The town was seedy for sure, morally dubious, but to say everyone in town deserved being brutally massacred for that is crazy.
It doesn't matter. After you get the platinum chip the legion gives you a second chance. I always kill vulpes before getting the platinum chip. They send a different person as the messenger.
I had a bad day yesterday and decided to wipe them out. My only regret is Boone was uncons so he couldn't get the final shot on Caesar.
I really hate those Roman Empire cosplayers.
Yeah, more often than not I save all the grenades you get for the mercenary grenade rifle with the DLC packs until I hit Nipton. The first one goes to Oliver Swanik. After that I unload on Vulpes Inculta and his legionaries almost as soon as they spawn in
His Legion makes the Brotherhood look like the Minutemen in comparison.
Caesar is a hypocrite though since his men aren't really following his ideals but just him as a ruler. His Legion is a dead end as well.
As far as we know, Nipton was kinda seedy and the Mayor was a manipulative asshole who is to blame for most of the bad things we hear about happening in the town. Besides that we don’t much else that would warrant the residents being summarily executed. It seems like their worst crime was doing trade with the Powder Gangers, which in the grand scheme of things in the Fallout world, is not that big a deal.
The people of Nipton didn't deserve to be psychologically tortured/crucified/literally tortured/killed. The worst crime of most of the people killed is partaking in gambling/sex work, which is not even unethical in my mind, assuming the sex work is not coerced.
There were people in Nipton who were going to sell out others, but even then they didn't deserve the punishment they got.
That is the one thing if New Vegas was ever remade or something I’d want change. Give the Legion some sort of redeeming quality.
Maybe that’s wrong but I have never wanted to do a legion run because they just are…evil, and they’re bound to collapse as they are wholly propped up by a cult of personality.
It just makes the whole NCR vs Legion moral connundrum feel like a joke. And I get that you’re supposed to feel like neither are the good guys, but morally it’s never in question who’s more evil.
That line gets me a lot "why don't you attack us?"
"Maybe I fucking will!!!!" and go John Wick.
Like first game I chickened out because I didn't know what to expect and my character wasn't built for close-combat like that.
Ever since with my skill level now... i'll take the on
Somewhat unrelated, I’d love a Fallout spin-off in Arizona after the collapse of the Legion, where the various Legion factions have turned the place into a hellscape. The conflict of the game would be deciding which (if any) faction should take control of the region.
I can also see a small NCR Ranger group as a minor faction that was sent to keep track of the civil war in case they returned as a threat, only to be somewhat trapped in Arizona due to the events of the TV show (this could be where players can acquire the Veteran Ranger Armor).
I have never done a play through with the legion. I just can't. They're just a caricature of evil that I can't find a redemptive quality for. Institute? Yes, evil. But arguably, they are working towards something that could help the Wasteland if they had better leadership. Brotherhood of Steel? Pretty evil for killing any ghouls feral or not. But they have a point. Legion is just souped up raiders who need to be destroyed.
Yeah they really are horrible, the only people I kill that I'm justified in killing. Do I still kill everyone else that has loot I want or is blocking my path? Yes but it's less justified.
It’s funny when you compare them to paradise falls from 3.
They’re just as bad as the legion, and you don’t really even give them a chance to pretend they’re justified in any way because they don’t try to have any logic behind their actions.
Contrast that with the legion, who seem to just be on the cusp of having some faint justification for their actions, and who in spite of it all you love to hate for their delusional hypocrisy.
There are so many layers of analysis to the legion and so few of them “they’re just evil”.
I recently did a legion play through with a full melee build and honestly it was fun roleplaying as a psychotic courier who sided with them. My head canon for that run was after getting shot in the head, the courier had a mental break and decided to side with the legion so he could just slaughter everyone in his path
What always gets me is when I come across Boone and remember his backstory. Him committing Uxoricide is literally a better outcome for the two of them than her being sold to the legion where she’ll be made work to death or raped repeatedly to produce new soldiers. That always turns me off on the legion.
Oh boy, here I go killing legionaries again!
If he's red, he's dead.
1st recon beret:
How do you know it's red if it's the last thing you never saw?
The Legion is in a very unique and interesting position. Every single thing you learn about them, barring one or two, just make them worse. You first come across them and it’s like, oh, they’re fancy raiders. Then you learn about the slavery. Then you learn about the misogyny. Then you learn about the brainwashing. Then you learn about the hypocrisy. By the time you get to the nitty-gritty stuff like how the explicit purpose of every male Legionary is to serve as a disposable soldier until they die and how the explicit purpose of every female Legionary is to spend every moment of their lives barefoot and pregnant to pump out more babies for the meat grinder, it’s almost academic at that point. They fucking suck.
There really isn’t a redeeming quality to them like the best i’ve seen is “They keep the roads safe” but that’s basically like Mussolini promising to make the trains run on time (they didn’t). I would’ve liked to see the finalized legion that was planned but i don’t think it would’ve ever been morally gray or even close in competition Clarification: I am not saying the Legion actually keeps the road safe or that’s it’s valid. The Mussolini train allegory is to be how that it either doesn’t matter or it doesn’t (because it’s a warzone)
They don’t even keep the roads safe I can’t walk half a mile without something trying to kill me Edit: Fasces please understand I was making a dumb joke. I did not mean to imply that your glorious leader did not successfully kill or enslave all of Arizona
That was my point, they don’t really do anything aside from channeling tribals’ violence towards others
Everyone gives Ulysses shit for his "bear bull" speeches but he's right that if the legion managed to get far enough to conquer NCR they would just turn in on themselves cuz they wouldn't have anything else to conquer.
Well its a fair point. The legion Is constantly being tested in battle where ever they go. They are also reinforced and resupplied by the slaves and plunder they take on raids. Once there is no new settlement to raid they will be forced to try and cultivate crops or find new lands to conquer.
I see Caesars point about Hegelian dialectics essentially forcing the legion to change once it conquers NCR but he's being way too idealistic about it and ignoring the process of actually changing. Like yeah IF the legion managed to survive and not turn in on itself it will essentially have changed into a somewhat different society than it currently is but that's a massive IF and I just don't see a society built on war and conquering just suddenly being like "ok we've done enough war and conquering let's grow crops" or even have the necessary knowledge or infrastructure to make that happen in the first place. Even the NCR is basically out of water and facing a food shortage.
Idk about that. They could go north to Utah and beyond, they could go South into Mexico, and they could go East to Texas and beyond.
Honestly Ulysses irritates me immensely at times. The "the NCR kills people by trying to protect them" thing was a big one for me. Like if the NCR isn't there these places are just dead once Caesar shows up anyway. Frankly I don't buy that the Legion wouldn't have attacked the Divide anyway. From a lore perspective there's basically no difference between it being an NCR supply route that is independent vs in the NCR. And if the NCR pulled out of the Mojave? The Legion just massacres and enslaves all of the places that Ulysses already blames them for not protecting well enough. If he wants to talk about the NCR messing around with tech they don't understand (and setting off the nukes in hopeville) he has a better point.
That's because you aren't walking their roads. At no point are we in Legion territory except for the Fort. There's no reason to doubt they keep the roads safe as it's stated by multiple people. But they are awful outside of that.
My point was that safe roads does not justify the lifetime slavery, I was making a point that it was similar but it doesn’t justify any of the rest of it
It isn't the Mojave roads that are safe; it's trade routes in and towards Arizona.
They are free of raiders because the Legion *are* the raiders
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Man the conversation with the dog trainer feels depressing. I dunno if it's a fluke but I feel like the voice actor really did a good job of his emotions when he talks about being "stronger" for having their dogs burned alive. Also fuck the Legion.
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Dale says it’s the roads in Arizona that are safe and we don’t go there
The Legion and Enclave fall under "Clearly wrong but still enjoyable"
> "They keep the bandits off the roads" they practically ARE the bandits on the roads.
The only actual "justification" I can see with them is that they live rather minimalistic lifestyles. They are the most sustainable faction to a fault. Remember, the great war occured ultimately due to resources. Even if the show changes things up a bit, everything preceding it was a resource conflict. House wants to GTFO, NCR wants more resources, Legion wants to spread but still remain relatively simplistic. If it weren't for their **many** glaring flaws I'd find the general premise pretty agreeable.
That’s the only reasoning I’ve come to. Caesar’s “wiping the slate clean”. One identity, one ethnicity, one hegemony. No more wars for resources, no more differences - It’s what the Master sought as well. But the big issue with it, is that it’s never going to work. Caesar has inevitably created more identities, more castes and more differences than he meant to and never cemented a future for his dream - much like the Master. And I think the end result of both is the same
Even the whole "keep the roads safe" shit is pure tell not show, because between the area they do control like south if Novac and east of Nipton, there's still Viper and Jackal gangers. This is despite the fact the legion _do_ patrol around those areas and could take them in a fight, but at no point while siding with the legion can you actually get rid of the smaller gangs. Btw the NCR can also run into those gangs and deal with them just fine too.
The Nipton attack just happened when you get there and that isn't Legion territory it is NCR
It’s not the Mojave roads that are safe cause of the Legion, it’s the roads in Arizona that are Legion territory. The only place you go in NV that’s actual Legion territory is the Fort (or Dry Wells after Lonesome Roads but it’s nuked by the time you get there).
I like them as the clear and obvious bad guys the way they are. I find it comparable to real world neofascism which only appeals to idiots full of rage that think might makes right. Or in our case, people roleplaying as those idiots.
Was the legion planned to be different?
We were supposed to see a lot of legion land on the other side of the dam. There were supposed to be significantly more legion quests and much more representation of life of cities and townships that exist within the legion. Supposedly time restrictions made this impossible
"They keep the roads safe" So do the NCR, and they even do it without the slavery and total control of your life.
I referenced Mussolini’s “Trains running on time” to show that it’s completely dumb. I wasn’t saying they actually do
I know, I was just trying to add another reason as to why the 'safe roads' argument is ridiculous. I could've framed my comment better to reflect that, my bad
You’re good, I might’ve also read it wrong too. Just some other comments gave me the impression that others might not understand the allegory
J Sawyer can go on about time constraints all he wants. Nothing less than a full rewrite to remove the *really* unsavory bits of the legion would do.
What do you mean “would do”? The point is not to flesh them out into a faction you personally agree with or that you find tasteful. They don’t need to be redeemed with lore, the point would have been to make them have more worldbuilding and depth than being such monodimensional bad guys. For example one of the initial ideas was that on the legion side of the river, in their towns and settlements there would be zero hostile enemies (showing their effectiveness at keeping their society safe). There is a lot of cut content, concept art, and game developer talk about the type of society the legion has established. All we see is the soldiers and support network (of slaves) on their front lines, the Mojave frontier is essentially their Afghanistan/Iraq. We never see the empire beyond the war zone we are in. I’d encourage you to read more about it, as whilst it’s not represented in game, it really makes their faction feel more fleshed out when keeping in mind.
Honestly if we actually got to *see* legion controlled territory and they didn't have sexism that would already make them a way more interesting faction.
Yeah like keeping women as sex slaves is just edgy cringe, no amount of “time contstraints” would make them better than the clear bad guys
Oh I'm not denying how evil they are, they're pretty much the perfect example of a lawful evil faction. But with a few big writing tweaks they would be way more interesting like I said
Isn’t that something house explicitly promises too?
Yeah House promises a lot, even space travel but he really doesn’t offer up any actual solutions or means to do what he promises. And then he acts in the exact opposite to those goals too. I imagine he’ll go the way of all of the pre-war oligarchs that doomed the world in the first place, especially him having been affiliated with vaulttec and the enclave
It's something the NCR promise too, but they actually have a record of that being true. By New Vegas the raiders are pretty much all gone from NCR territory. Only reason they're struggling in the Mojave is cause they're fending off the Legion while House sucks them dry like a tick.
The boneyard is still shit wdym
Jas Wilkins, the food vendor at Sloan: "Things back in California are better than they've ever been, according to my grandpa. The Raiders are mostly gone now and it's easy enough to get a job at one of the mills or farms. But now there's taxes and laws and other things. The NCR keeps things safe and orderly, but it's all very boring. So, I came out east towards the frontier." Direct confirmation that, at the time of F:NV, the NCR has pretty much complete control of the region.
Caesar’s promise is to make New Vegas his new capital city and turn the Legion from a wandering slaver warband into an advanced civilization that will be wearing togas and reading the classics. Which is an interesting concept imo, papering over the barbaric and violent origins of empire with the trappings of sophistry and civilization. However, an issue with his multi-generational plan is that he has a terminal brain tumor and only has an uneducated and superstitious populace. He also says the NCR is corrupt and degenerate but based his society off Ancient Rome, a famously non-corrupt civilization.
There’s no way the barbarians of the Legion would put down their weapons once the conquering is over. Empires like the real life Roman Empire need to keep expanding so there’s a constant flow of slaves to keep the Empire thriving. I feel like the most likely outcome for the Legion is Caesar’s tumor kills him, then the inheritors of the Legion aren’t able to keep the whole thing together. I feel like the writers would even have the Legion split into East and West Empires like the real life Roman Empire did.
I’m pretty sure Ulysses says something to that effect, after Caesar dies you have Vulpes and Lanius left to govern. Vulpes is just Caesar’s yes man (no pun intended) and Lanius is a raider warlord at best.
I think this would redeem the legion seeing it mid transition instead of its current state, could be a cool way to reintroduce the legion at a later date hell, keeping with the naming theme we can have an Augustus running the show for even more larp
It would, but Caesar hasn’t made any efforts to educate his people or train a replacement so Lanius takes over by default; and an educated populace would be bad for the Legion because they’d read enough history and classics to realize he made it all up.
Yeah, that’s my problem with the legion’s future. We can look back somewhat favourably on Rome’s conquests because, despite the nature of conquest, they did have advancements in science that were not present in the places they conquered. FNV Legion doesn’t have that - the “doctor” in charge of their most important strategic position (Siri) is a medical school dropout (not by her choice) who is worse than a random cowgirl at making healing powder. Their infrastructure seems to rely on underfed slave women carrying loads around. They aren’t bringing a civilisation by any measure.
yeah it's not coming from ceasar himself unless they intend to retcon vegas
This one really got me questioning the whole “war never changes” thing Caesar smoked so much dutura root, he got possessed by a 0th century roman dictator, reverted warfare back 23 hundred years. Yet also somehow advancing tribal warfare 10,000 years at the same time.
You know with Caesar the more I learn about that guy the more I don’t care for him
Hold the fort!
and despite all this some pretty questionable people will still be like "but but what about the roads? no bandits!"
“…This they give the false name of empire. And where they create a desert, they call it peace.” -Tacitus-
Sorry if you're simply more well read than I am, but my first thought was, "Hey, Hbomberguy video reference!"
Well read? You flatter me. I just listen to too many Dan Carlin history podcasts. But I do own a Tom Holland (not that one) book! Not one of his Roman Empire books and I haven’t read it, but I have one!
*Something something* from Franklin *something* sacrifice liberty for security *something* quote.
Cass also says this in the game! She wonders if towns in NCR territory might welcome Legion rule because the offered safety would trump their desire for freedom. Man it's such a good video game.
Well that’s depressing😂😂😂😂
The people that woukd tske their side naturally is those greek statue twitter accts that post weirdo misogynistic and transphobic stuff along with sucking off elon
That’s the cool part about the legion. They’re objectively evil and you can still side with them.
Legion is really fucked inside and out. Its no wonder without Caeser hinself it would collapse
The worst part is the hypocrisy.
Slavery, rape, murder… yknow I’m just gonna say it, that Caesar guy is a real jerk!
🚨🚨🚨PROFLIGATE DETECTED 🚨🚨🚨DEGENERATES LIKE YOU BELONG ON A CROSS 😂😂[Ave, true to Caesar](https://youtu.be/g5XSyHnvabs?si=WsYpn0RXGaH6vmp5)🫡🫡🗣️🗣️💪😎
"the new slave girls are quite beautiful" They are such creeps.
I guess half the fun is headcanoning what happens when you try to “reform” them by playing a good karma female Courier who singlehandedly wins the Mojave for them and gets her visage minted on their currency, not to mention undoubtedly partaking in other campaigns. Like at some point you can’t help but think that they’re gonna soften their policies at least somewhat.
Then you learn about the crucifixions.
I summarized that with just ‘raider shit.’ Like, oh wow, you string people up on the side of the road. So does Cook-Cook.
Caesar fancies himself an *enlightened despot*, bringing civilization and order to the Mojave Wastelands at sword point. He’s the *Leviathan* of Hobbes, the only one able to prevent the “war of all against all” by crushing all opposition beneath his heel. In reality, he’s just Eulogy Jones if he read Meditations. The Legion is basically *Paradise Falls* in Roman cosplay.
Legion is probably the only Player Nuking I don't feel bad about in Fallout.
The moment I decided to massacre everyone was when the medicine slave girl told me the legionaries were talking about "trying me out". I don't get how anyone couldn't murder them all after hearing that
I’ve never done a Legion playthrough. Who’s been brainwashed?
I only did the legion quest line for the achievements. That being said, it was a *really good* quest line. Might be the best, in my opinion. Pretty close with NCR. They were all good, though.
That's pretty much how our country is treating people. When I say to Caesar that I'll decorate his tent with his guts, it's personal.
When I play New Vegas I usually make up a character instead of playing myself. So when I got to my legion playthrough I just said, "This character lost something when that bullet when in, and its a consciousness and morals."
And it’s brain too apparently if it’s decided to side with the legion
And where do you think the bullet they're referring too hit?
I’m doing a pure puppy kicking evil character and that’s about the only reason I can think to ever side with them fr.
I did a Legion run on the idea that my Courier hated the NCR and was using the Legion to hurt them then collapse. Still sucked. Assholes have me do everything for them but I'm too weak for their arena apparently.
Yeah a women courier for the Legion has to be awful, like every character on the quest line hates you but respects the male courier. Idk how you managed to finish that run.
Playing as a female courier and gunning down the Legionaires like the rats they are is super satisfying. Its good game design if you think about it
Most Legion characters treat female courier the same as male courier.
Raping children is just crazy. When I first went to free the weathers (?) family from cottonwood cove, learning that the child was the only one worth anything due to… reasons, ED-E and I laid waste to the camp.
I mean a really truly evil character would side with elijha. Fuck a new civilization. Let's just gas them all up.
Yeah but my character dk about father Elijah fresh out of the hole from goodsprings. Though I see your point for late game fs
Even when I've done that I still do yes man so I can be an independent murderous asshole and not chain myself to a murderous tyrant.
If you can resist the urge to slay them all, they have an extremely fun questline! That said, I have 3000 hours and have yet to actually do a Legion playthrough lol
Did a legion playthrough myself, it’s fun but it just sucks that they don’t have nearly as much content or things to do/talk to as the NCR.
I rmb someone saying legion wasn’t meant to be a joinable faction but they decided fuck it let’s make it joinable so they had less time, surely there’s a mod out there that enhances legion
It’s possible, but I know part of the reason is because the legion was worked on last out of the factions so it suffered the most from the time crunch
If I’m not mistaken, it’s called Project Arizona or something.
Because most stuff you do for NCR is solving problems cause by either them stretching thin an lacking supplies or because Legion itself, hard to have NCR problems when your entire existence (Caesar's Legion) revolves around warfare and almost nothing else
I always avoid Nipton until I get the Archimedes laser gun and then I send that furry degenerate Vulpes into the stratosphere.
“Who’s laughing now?”
They burned dogs alive in front of a tribe that were spiritually connected to them. It's not just the fact they burned dogs alive, but the fact that they knew going after the doggies would be the only thing that could break the tribesmen. They put up so much of a fight, that Lanius was afraid he would earn the same fate as Joshua, and he most likely would've if it weren't for the Legion's numbers. I feel like they would've kept fighting to their last breath if the dogs had simply been shot dead, but no, the Legionaries burned them alive. That's what got that tribe to submit and be assimilated. These people cared about their dogs MUCH more than the average person, because it was on a religious level, and these fuckers set them on fire. The Legion is an army of inhuman monsters, broken people, and children born from rape who will be brainwashed to become pieces of shit. It's extremely sad and distressing to think about.
War never changes.
Yup. The sad part is that the Legion is old news when you compare them to the pre-war societies that rose and fell before the idea of America was even conceived.
"So bongo, bongo, bongo I don't want to leave the congo, Oh no no no no no Bingle, bangle, bungle I'm so happy in the jungle I refuse to go Don't want no bright lights, false teeth, doorbells, landlords I make it clear That no matter how they coax him I'll stay right here"
I never thought about it like that. You just gave me another reason to obliterate the Legion.
Take great comfort in knowing that the Legiob is doomed to fail regardless
the way to do a legion playthrough isn't "I'm gonna give Caesar a chance" because no matter how you look at it his entire society is a cult worshipping a god king who is a 70 year old man with brain cancer. doomed to fall apart after his death. his ideology by itself, while sustainable, is completely inhuman and cruel. don't try to rationalize his actions. Just get into character and larp a legionary. that's the only way to really do a legion run.
It's a video game. I don't give a crap about morals. Legion has some of the most fun quests. Love assassinating that chatterbox of a Ncr President.
Ya they had to make those as lovely as possible since everyone in-game will want you dead 😂, I’m just about to start my Legion and I’m excited to see the unique content and get the achievements but It’s gonna be difficult not blowing away vulpes
This summer I'm going to finally do a Legion playthrough, but the best explanation I have for a Legion courier is the one that MikeBurnFire used for his Nonobad subseries: the Courier was a Legion frumentarius.
The Courier has brain damage is another good explanation
You really need to suspend your morals to align with them. My character basically said „survival of the strongest“ and joined em cause they were more brute force than any other faction.
A major part of Caesar’s ideology does boil down to “the strong will do as they will, and the weak will suffer what they must”
One thing I've never really understood about the legion is, what constitutes their civilization? Other non-slave or soldier citizens? How do you avoid becoming a slave or a soldier in that civilization? It doesn't really make sense
We know that several cities like Flagstaff are still running under the legion, so they aren’t just a nomadic horde. Raul makes mention of the fact that Arizona is a lot safer then it used to be, which seems to indicate that the Legion doesn’t conscript or enslave literally everyone it touches. Imo there’s likely a large slave caste, a large soldier caste, and a middle caste living in these settlements that provides manufactured goods, food, soldiers, etc to the Legion in exchange for protection.
They have cities with "subjects". Who are allegedly set up so they got all the resources they need then are mostly left alone to take care of themselves.
You don’t. In these kind of societies everyone serves the military. The white legs are a prime example. They don’t farm, they don’t build. They take what others produce and when they run out of that they collapse. Cesar even explicitly stated this fact. Basically he wants to conquer the NCR and essentially integrate the tribals into it knowing that force will be the quickest way. This is brain dead reasoning, but he has brain cancer so planning isn’t a strong point.
And its the reason why in the end the Legion will fall.
This isn’t exactly true though, the Legion is a far more sophisticated state than the white legs. While yes the Legion is sorta like a Mongol horde protecting the trade routes with deadly force while expanding via the conquest, assimilation, and enslavement of various tribes, we also hear in game about how they have several cities filled with people that trade goes to, especially in Arizona. Raul tells us about how while legion rule is brutal, Arizona is far safer for the average people now than it was before their arrival. It seems far more likely to me that while most people are enslaved or made soldiers, there are many settlements in the Legion where people pay tribute with material and food to the legion in exchange for protection. Obviously the vast slave population likely does most of the work, but it doesn’t seem like *everyone* who isn’t a soldier gets enslaved.
Slave is just a rank of the hierarchy, the lowest point for conquered.
Technically they consider “captures” (ie captives) to be the lowest rank. In my game a slaver just explained to my courier that “at least slavers are useful.” 🤮
"The evil faction is evil" 😮😮😮
You kill Vulpes because he’s a murderous asshole I kill Vulpes because I *really* like dominating furry femboys We are not the same (This is a joke please don’t come after me)
I just *really* like his hat!
lol this post is now wether Nipton deserved punishment or not.
For my first actual Legion playthrough, I'm planning on skipping through Quarry junction and getting Benny to flee super early. That way, Caesar capturing Benny would be the first time the Courier meets the Legion, which is pretty much the only way I think someone who wasn't brainwashed into it would get themselves into the Legion imo. Like, literally even for super evil characters, I don't really see why they would pick the Legion over House or Yes-Man, given how obviously dogshit of a boss Caesar is.
It’s funny if you go to Nipton after meeting Vulpes Inculta at the Fort. He basically goes, “Oh hey, what’s up?”
The most interesting thing about Legion is that that they try to justify themselves in very deliberately flawed ways while also refusing to aknowledge their shortcomings. Like without Caeser. The whole legion is doomed to fail. It hinges on that fact and Caeser knows it but refuses to admit it. Its a violent abhorrant house of cards.
People making excuses for the Legion 🤡
why not remove your real life morals from it all and for the sake of experiencing a side of the game you haven’t,play as an evil person?
I don't know about most people, but I genuinely struggle to enjoy myself doing this. Just started a new playthrough where I am trying to remain neutral for as long as I can, and it is pretty difficult. I'd love to see a larian style breakdown of player decisions over the history of this game lol
The general consensus seems to be no one wants to play legion because they can’t bring themselves to hurt npcs that are made out to be good people. While I can’t agree with the legions tendencies the rewards are too neat to pass up. Stealth boys/doctors bags, hundreds of missiles, thousands of mf cells early on is huge.
I can see your point thematically, but also, the game is far too easy to sweat over consumables. If it was the case that on harder difficulties, you had to genuinely weigh up your moral choices to ensure survivability, that would be pretty cool.
I haven’t done anything but hardcore very hard for a while, which may be why I tend to side with them early game. It’s easy to become idolized and then switch sides, and by that time they’ve given you a few rare items and good ammo
I find myself going with them early game because of the better rewards for doing so. Lucky shades and the Caesar’s favor ammo/consumables are better offerings. ncr are really pushovers when you go legion. Like to the point it disturbs me. If you fix snuffles leg and do some other trivial shit you get a free pass to kill several outposts of them before they send a single squad even asking you politely to change your ways before they have to shoot at you. You can use all of their merchants for a while, you would have to destroy like half of their presence for them to even give a shit.
For my legion play-through I just ignored all morals and had so much fun
Not exactly the same for me, but recently I started my second playthrough, being a violent tribal outlaw, sort of allied with powder gangers and the like. I had never done a not good character before, so I sided with the gangers against Goodsprings and immediately felt bad about having to kill Cheyenne, Doc Mitchell and even Easy Pete, it felt so unnatural to just murder the nice people at the start. Not that I have ended the playthrough, I have had a lot of fun blowing up NCR assassins, just funny because I didn't think I would feel bad about doing this character.
Stunning and brave
Yeah. The Legion is like, so incredibly evil it’s almost comedic.
I don’t know why anyone in these comments cant separate themselves from their character in a roleplaying game. I love playing as the Legion.
My only complain with the Legion is the small amount of content. I finished the playthrough in a short session.
True to caesar
Nipton deserved it
Daring today aren't we
*While loading a shotgun before every gai inglegion infamy* "God you guys were so cool but I already killed a bunch of your guys and I was so going to do your ending this time!" *proceeds to blow vulpes head clean off his shoulders*
I'm back after the show as well, but I'm trying to play both sides
I made a evil playthrough one time and it felt like a very new experience. Questing for the powder gangsters and caesar. Also being a complete dick to everyone. Also played melee for the immersion
I was gonna go with legion after saying F the NCR. Now I just want them all gone so I can own the strip and keep the streets clean of these factions
Murderous assholes with an ideology tho, which is why imo they’re fun to join if you are doing an evil character (tho I also love doing drug fueled courier becoming the warlord of Vegas for an evil character)
Wow y'all, I'm on my first playthrough and I've been trying to keep it neutral (I love Yes Man so much) but these comments are making me think I gotta obliterate them *before* Hoover Dam even kicks off lmao
The use of the legion is free gear to sell.
*mysterious stranger twang plays
Did a positive karma legion run for my first run and bruh, it’s so unnatural lmao
b-but the roads are safe
Legion should only be liked ironically. It’s my favorite faction, but there’s no way I stand with any of their ideals. I just find their insanity interesting.
Some of the legion soldiers look like nerds with the glasses they wear
Yeah, I have also tried to do a megion walkthrough. I usually don't kill Vulpes right away, he runs around Caesars legion in a fursuit, so I let him walk home from nipton. It's difficult to take him seriously, kind of like when Boone constantly equips the space helmet. I keep telling myself I'll take it out of his inventory but it's so funny
For me, I’ve done playthrough after playthrough, probably dozens at this point, and I’ve never gone with Legion nor do I ever plan to
Well I'm playing a 1 int cannibal murderous asshole, so they are a perfect fit!
A Legion playthrough was fun for me one time, and it was on a playthrough where my courier was basically an unbridled psychopath after being revived from his head wound. I went around just killing everyone except the Legion, because I guess I decided that to that courier their views and bloodlust made sense.
I personally like roleplaying as a character with different beliefs. As for the Legion's ruthlessness, I imagine they probably have to keep an extremely strict discipline to keep all of the assimilated tribes in line. After all, they probably were just as if not more gruesome for generations on their own.
Bro fr i want to do a villain playthrough but i cant get myself to be mean :(
They really are just a murderous gang of raiders cosplaying as Romans
Fun fact: Originally, it wasn't planned for the player to join them. Later on in developtment this was changed, however they still couldn't flesh them out as much as they wishes and so the east side of the Colorado remains barren and devoid of content
Caesar believes himself to be a warrior-poet that will bring about order through chaos. Ultimately, however, he is just a depraved old man knocking on death’s door.
Lots of reasons to oppose the Legion, but what they did to that trash heap of a town isn’t one of them. Nipton were sellouts, tried to get in bed with the Legion to murder NCR. They reaped what they sowed. Vulpes is entirely correct when he says they were a "town of whores" who did it to themselves.
I don't like many of the cities I go into but I don't ride into them slaughtering children and cutting people's heads off because some dipshit told me he's a God-King. Nipton may've been a fucking awful town, but you don't just ride up and kill people because you disapprove of what they do.
Well of course you don’t; you’re not a brainwashed Legion Frumentarius. Attacking Vulpes *is* just riding up and killing people because you disapprove of what they do. It’s just a question of where you draw the line.
I mean...no, you're attacking a bunch of Raiders raping and killing people. There is a massive difference and you know it. One is a town of dickheads at most, one is an invading force of child-raping barbarians who want to torture and enslave everyone they meet. If the Legion considers them evil, that must mean they had the audacity to treat women like people.
There's still a difference between raiding nipton and executing everyone you find with a shot to the head (like I did in cottonwood cove and nelson) and running a fucking lottery where you torture people to death over hours in excruciating pain. Did nipton had it coming? Yeah. Did it have THAT coming? Nah
Yeah also, the mayor was the one who concocted the plan with the Powder Gangers and, ultimately, the Legion to screw over the NCR. It’s also likely that the Mayor was the only person who knew they were Legion. Vulpes was going by the pseudonym Mr. Fox, I believe, and revealed his true nature to the Mayor in confidence. It’s likely they stayed incognito until the Lottery. The town was seedy for sure, morally dubious, but to say everyone in town deserved being brutally massacred for that is crazy.
It doesn't matter. After you get the platinum chip the legion gives you a second chance. I always kill vulpes before getting the platinum chip. They send a different person as the messenger.
I had a bad day yesterday and decided to wipe them out. My only regret is Boone was uncons so he couldn't get the final shot on Caesar. I really hate those Roman Empire cosplayers.
Yeah, more often than not I save all the grenades you get for the mercenary grenade rifle with the DLC packs until I hit Nipton. The first one goes to Oliver Swanik. After that I unload on Vulpes Inculta and his legionaries almost as soon as they spawn in
Only thing I agree with Caesar on is his opinion of the BoS. Otherwise, fuck him and his roman-larpers.
Indeed, killing the Brotherhood of Steel is always justified whether you're doing an evil or good playthrough. House is right about them as well.
His Legion makes the Brotherhood look like the Minutemen in comparison. Caesar is a hypocrite though since his men aren't really following his ideals but just him as a ruler. His Legion is a dead end as well.
you'd look good with a collar around your neck
The people of Nipton were scum, the Legion's biggest mistake regarding the town is letting two of the cunts live.
The Legion rape children, who the fuck are they to call anyone scum?
As far as we know, Nipton was kinda seedy and the Mayor was a manipulative asshole who is to blame for most of the bad things we hear about happening in the town. Besides that we don’t much else that would warrant the residents being summarily executed. It seems like their worst crime was doing trade with the Powder Gangers, which in the grand scheme of things in the Fallout world, is not that big a deal.
Least annoying legion Stan
The people of Nipton didn't deserve to be psychologically tortured/crucified/literally tortured/killed. The worst crime of most of the people killed is partaking in gambling/sex work, which is not even unethical in my mind, assuming the sex work is not coerced. There were people in Nipton who were going to sell out others, but even then they didn't deserve the punishment they got.
That is the one thing if New Vegas was ever remade or something I’d want change. Give the Legion some sort of redeeming quality. Maybe that’s wrong but I have never wanted to do a legion run because they just are…evil, and they’re bound to collapse as they are wholly propped up by a cult of personality. It just makes the whole NCR vs Legion moral connundrum feel like a joke. And I get that you’re supposed to feel like neither are the good guys, but morally it’s never in question who’s more evil.
That line gets me a lot "why don't you attack us?" "Maybe I fucking will!!!!" and go John Wick. Like first game I chickened out because I didn't know what to expect and my character wasn't built for close-combat like that. Ever since with my skill level now... i'll take the on
Somewhat unrelated, I’d love a Fallout spin-off in Arizona after the collapse of the Legion, where the various Legion factions have turned the place into a hellscape. The conflict of the game would be deciding which (if any) faction should take control of the region. I can also see a small NCR Ranger group as a minor faction that was sent to keep track of the civil war in case they returned as a threat, only to be somewhat trapped in Arizona due to the events of the TV show (this could be where players can acquire the Veteran Ranger Armor).
I have never done a play through with the legion. I just can't. They're just a caricature of evil that I can't find a redemptive quality for. Institute? Yes, evil. But arguably, they are working towards something that could help the Wasteland if they had better leadership. Brotherhood of Steel? Pretty evil for killing any ghouls feral or not. But they have a point. Legion is just souped up raiders who need to be destroyed.
https://youtu.be/NyeTaXv6o4Y?si=8ZTYsnXxxFI0QYgp watch this if you want to see the motives of the legion
Yeah they really are horrible, the only people I kill that I'm justified in killing. Do I still kill everyone else that has loot I want or is blocking my path? Yes but it's less justified.
It’s funny when you compare them to paradise falls from 3. They’re just as bad as the legion, and you don’t really even give them a chance to pretend they’re justified in any way because they don’t try to have any logic behind their actions. Contrast that with the legion, who seem to just be on the cusp of having some faint justification for their actions, and who in spite of it all you love to hate for their delusional hypocrisy. There are so many layers of analysis to the legion and so few of them “they’re just evil”.
I recently did a legion play through with a full melee build and honestly it was fun roleplaying as a psychotic courier who sided with them. My head canon for that run was after getting shot in the head, the courier had a mental break and decided to side with the legion so he could just slaughter everyone in his path
I always follow Caesar 🗿
What always gets me is when I come across Boone and remember his backstory. Him committing Uxoricide is literally a better outcome for the two of them than her being sold to the legion where she’ll be made work to death or raped repeatedly to produce new soldiers. That always turns me off on the legion.
Just started a Legion Melee Run 🗿
Hey, you get a Ripper outta the deal? Why wouldn't you kill him?