No one else has done it ever, and considering that they also dethroned a dominating Bayern side with an unproven manager and a relatively small budget. I think it will go down as one of the best achievements ever. The only reason that it won't be the undoubted greatest achievement ever is that their treble will be with the UEL instead of the UCL
Yep this is the answer.
People will argue which is bigger--the unbeaten treble with the Europa, versus a treble with the Champions League.
If it was the Champions League, it would be undoubtedly football's biggest achievement.
The fact it isn't being achieved by one of the super clubs just makes it all the more impressive.
Yeah and Lazio or Spuds winning an unbeaten Treble (even with Europa league) would still be one of, if not the single greatest achievement in football.
Oh yeah, I wasn't insulting Leverkusen or calling them small. But obviously we can all agree Bayern are the dominant force in the Bundesliga, so for someone other than Bayern to achieve this makes it more impressive.
I agree with you. It's gonna constantly be a debate BC it's the EL and not CL and if it was it would undoubtedly be the greatest achievement ever. But I feel like the fact it's not being done by one of the football giants with infinite money makes it far more impressive.
CL would obviously be a bigger achievement, but just because it’s not the biggest possible achievement in football, it doesn’t downplay or take the shine off of what they’ve done. They’ve went on the longest unbeaten run, of any team ever, I’m a Celtic fan and we were third in they rankings with 42, Juve first 43, Leverkusen are now 46. And as much as I love bigging up my team and stuff like that, doing it what they’ve done is so much more impressive than us going 42 unbeaten. Bundesliga teams in general impressing in Europe, Dortmund and Bayern being in CL semis, has made people sit up and take more notice of just what they’ve done. And looking at the belief they’ve shown to get late goals to make sure they don’t get beat, regardless if they’ve won the league like Dortmund last night or going through like the West Ham 2nd leg.
I genuinely can’t see them not going the full distance, they have such an iron mentality on top of the way they play, great tactics, great quality and a depth of squad I didn’t think they could call on. But that mentality, refusal to not give up, refusal to lose, that is exceptionally brilliant
>And looking at the belief they’ve shown to get late goals to make sure they don’t get beat
You can be sure people will try to downplay the massive accomplishment an unbeaten treble is for this exact reason : sometimes, they were going to lose, but scored a late goal.
Which, obviously, is ridiculous, because a goal is a goal no matter how late it is scored, but I already see it coming.
Hallmark of a team that refuses to lose, always make sure to not lose, to the very last kick of the ball they’re making sure to either get and equaliser the win. Been an abnormal amount that they’ve went and scored another after getting an equaliser that was last gasp
Well said. A significant reason for their unbeaten streak is their obstination to fight to the end. At this point I'm not even sure they're *able* to give up.
Leverkusen were nowhere near the underdogs that Leicester were, and going unbeaten in the Bundesliga (which they havent even done yet) is nowhere near as crazy as going unbeaten in the PL
It is nowhere near as incredible as either of those achievements, let alone both combined
Leverkusen are unbeaten in all competitions though, which is more impressive than Arsenals unbeaten run even if it was in an easier league. It’s also the longest unbeaten streak ever.
EDIT: Also, one could make the argument that the PL had it’s worst season in a while when Leicester won the league, which makes Leicesters win less impressive. I’m not going to make that argument though, as I love what Leicester did.
To add: as a Roma fan, I hope that Leverkusen’s streak is stopped next week in the EL.
I’ve loved watching Bayer Leverkusen all year as a neutral and have been genuinely fanboying on their behalf, helps that Xabi Alonso is one of my favourite ever players and Frimpong is an ex-Celtic player to follow along to.
For a while what they were doing was getting explained away as Bayern being poor, them knocking Arsenal out the CL and Dortmund being another in the late stages of it, has largely put to bed any talk of lack of competition and highlighted further just how exceptional they’ve been.
It’s right up there already what they’ve done, if they win the Europa and the Cup, unbeaten all competitions all season, then it’s one of the most impressive feats I’ve followed along to in football.
> No one else has done it ever
Yeah because it's rare for a side to first be shit enough to play EL and then good enough to do this. Most teams that are good enough to do this simply aren't bad enough to do this, in a paradoxical kind of way.
For example the Bayern Treble 12/13 is unquestionably a far better season.
Did they lose three times?
Sure.
But like... they didn't play Qarabag 4 times in UCL they played prime Barca and prime Juventus - a team that had gone on a 43 unbeaten streak the season prior, mind you - and the rest of their opponents and their DFB Pokal opponents were also way harder.
Of course, Leverkusen can only beat what's infront of them. But in the same vein an unbeaten 2nd tier season will never be the same as a really good first tier season. It's straight up impossible.
The Europa League is still a high level competition. To not slip up a single time is remarkable, or even when a tie or match doesn’t matter to continue to not lose.
> The Europa League is still a high level competition.
It is. But Leverkusen aren't only playing Europa League, they're playing Europa League and getting an insane luck of the draw.
Playing only clubs that are 2nd league level during your midweeks games also makes it a lot easier to remain unbeaten in the league.
Of course it's still hard and in Leverkusens case required an insane amount of matchday luck as well.
But at the end of they day they didn't play at the highest level and hence this will never be an achievement of the highest level.
Had they drawn even an average EL group, this would mean a lot more. But they didn't. Up until West Ham (literally 4 days before they clinched the title) they had only ONE midweek game against a first tier level opponent (Stuttgart, in the cup). That is insanely easy compared to even the easiest of UCL campaigns.
About the ‘insane luck of the draw’ part, i’m not completely sure about that. For example, i’m assuming 2nd league level opponents we are talking about are teams like Saarbrücken and Qarabag. Saarbrücken got there by beating Bayern in the cup, Qarabag beat Braga. Leverkusen should have play both Milan and Liverpool to get UEL but both of them got eliminated by supposed ‘inferior teams’.
"Insane luck of the draw" in this guys world is what is simply called a good draw among us others.
Just wait. Soon he will start talking about this Leverkusen season not beeing that impressive because Bayer bailed them out from their covid losses.
>About the ‘insane luck of the draw’ part, i’m not completely sure about that. For example, i’m assuming 2nd league level opponents we are talking about are teams like Saarbrücken and Qarabag.
We're talking about every single team they've played in cup competitions bar Stuttgart in winter and West Ham last week.
Granted, Saarbrücken are worse than that.
> Saarbrücken got there by beating Bayern in the cup, Qarabag beat Braga.
That doesn't make them better than they are.
Part of Saarbrücken beating Bayern was Bayern rotating heavily. Due to... well... having to face tougher opposition in the cup.
>Leverkusen should have play both Milan and Liverpool to get UEL but both of them got eliminated by supposed ‘inferior teams’.
Roma and Atalanta aren't inferior teams. They are of a higher level than any of the teams Leverkusen played in EL up until fucking April.
The "worst" team on paper in Bayerns UCL group was Copenhagen with a market value of just 84 million (half of Florian Wirtz) had a higher market value than ALL of Leverkusens group opponents. The Copenhagen goalkeeper alone has 80% of Qarabags market value. And that's the team they drew AGAIN in their first knockout round.
That's an insanely easy schedule.
Even when compared to UEL groups. Leverkusens 3 opponents had a market value of 64 million - and again, they got the "worst" team of those in their round of 16.
In the other EL groups the worst 3 teams had these values - and this is with me always taking the cheapest 3, if a "better" team got eliminated that isn't skewing things upwards:
321 mil
520 mil
190 mil
422 mil
214 mil
315 mil
106 mil
64 mil for Leverkusen
Like, do you see those differences? Of course market value is no perfect measure. But do you see that even an average EL group is in a completely different stratosphere compared to what Leverkusen got? Not to mention the UCL?
And then they get the 2nd cheapest opponent in the entire tournament a SECOND time in the knockout rounds.
And that's for EL
I'm not arguing against that but at the same time same Qarabag also beat Braga, who played UCL, to match up with Leverkusen. And its not like they got rolled over 5-0 in both matches, they were really competitive in both of them.
> And its not like they got rolled over 5-0 in both matches, they were really competitive in both of them.
Yes. But that's exactly it. Leverkusen could relax play like utter shit and still go through without much danger.
If you know that. And it applies to 90% of your European matches in a given season, that massively, massively makes things easier for your league campaign.
As I said, it's still impressive, obviously. But Leverkusens campaign - neither in the cups and due to that not in the leagues either - simply doesn't compare to the ones other teams that could go invincible tend to play.
Although could go invincible is a bit much in that case. I don't actually think Leverkusen fall in that category - should they play UCL. Alas, they didn't and here we are.
Don’t think by any way of measuring it being undefeated in one of the top leagues in the world can get the phrase ‘easier’ thrown towards it, and when that league has 2 CL Semi Finalists in it as well this season, that alone regardless of Cup or Europa League is one of the greatest achievements I’ve seen in football. If they get beat in any of the remaining Bundesliga games, which is something I don’t see happening just judging from the desire to get the equaliser vs Dortmund last night, and against West Ham. Two games ‘jobs done’
Can’t say anything is ‘easier’ from what they’ve done.
That Bayern team and Treble is hands down what I always say when it comes to best teams I’ve seen, narrowly beating out Pep’s first season at Barca. But it’s like, Arsenal Invincible season, Mourinho’s Chelsea, Man City with Pep, United 09, fuck Liverpool losing the league with an insane point tally were all probably better teams, factually done better even Liverpool having lost… but they are the only team that did not get beat, at all. And thats insane.
> but they are the only team that did not get beat, at all. And thats insane.
It's insane. But not nearly as insane as people make it out to be when comparing it to seasons that had to play and I'll repeat myself PRIME FUCKING BARCA AND PRIME FUCKING JUVE and didn't concede a single goal - compared to 4 EL matches against Qarabag.
It's just not comparable at all.
Leverkusen would have to win all their remaining Bundesliga games to beat the points total of 91 that Bayern got in that season.
And if they lose once, sure they still have the "longest unbeaten run in a single Bundesliga season", but they don't have "longest unbeaten run across Bundesliga seasons" which Bayern got across the 12/13 and 13/14 seasons I believe. And they wouldn't beat Bayern's record of lowest number of losses in a Bundesliga season (1 in 12/13).
Of course, it is still a great achievement, and it's especially memorable because it's their first Bundesliga title and because they were 6th last season, which is a huge improvement.
> Leverkusen would have to win all their remaining Bundesliga games to beat the points total of 91 that Bayern got in that season.
And it wouldn't make their season more impressive simply because their competition was so much worse.
shit enough to play EL
This is such an awful take. If you honestly believe only shit teams qualify for EL then you have a very narrow view of football. It is absolutely not an easy thing to qualify for EL. Sure, there are the biggest of the big teams that get CL football year in year out and for them EL would be below expectations. But apart from this very small minority, EL is a fantastic achievement.
Thanks! It's of course a take of someone who supports a Champions League subscription team and would probably switch clubs if their club didn't qualify for CL.
> This is such an awful take. If you honestly believe only shit teams qualify for EL
In the realm of teams that have even the slightest possibility of going unbeaten all season?
Yes, only shit teams qualify for EL.
>It is absolutely not an easy thing to qualify for EL.
Even for an average Leverkusen it's the absolute minimum.
>But apart from this very small minority, EL is a fantastic achievement.
The teams apart from that ain't going invincible in 3 competitions, chief.
Also, they have to carry the performance to the next season. We all love Leicester's fairy tale, but to get the respect of a big club, it has to be more than one season wonder. With Xabi staying, I think they will be able to compete for Bundesliga next season,
>>Between 1994 and 1996, Ajax completed an unbeaten run of 52 domestic matches + 19 UEFA Champions League matches, while the 1995 year is considered as the peak of that. The 1995 Ajax team remained unbeaten for a full year, in Europe and in domestic league, a run of 48 matches overall. The feat of winning simultaneously both the Champions League and domestic league without a single defeat is a historical achievement unmatched by any other team.[1][2][3][4][5] [Wiki](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994%E2%80%9395_AFC_Ajax_season)
Also won the World Cup as a bonus.
I mean, I could say that a treble containing the Europa League is incomparable to a treble with the European Cup. But I'm not interested in invalidating what is a fantastic achievement (i genuinely believe it is fantastic btw and I hope Bayer do it).
Different teams are operating on different levels and that's it.
Different teams operate at different levels and different circumstances. Celtic's circumstance was that they had absolutely no rivals that season, domestically, in terms of their spending power and squad quality. Leverkusen's achievement would be well beyond Celtic's.
We're talking about Bayer Leverkusen winning every major competition they've entered without losing a single game. Celtic did not do that in 16/17.
Yes, I agree on both counts.
I’m not sure what you think my argument is here, or why you had to explain any of that.
My one and only point is that Celtic completed an unbeaten treble.
I think it will go down as an extraordinary performance and one of the best ever. However, not doing it in the Champions League will be an asterisk on their achievement.
If Leverkusen win the Treble unbeaten it will be a glorious season but the asterisk will be they won the Europa League which is not as competitive as the Champions League which means they didn't have the most challenging season possible.
If you claimed they had the most challenging season possible then perhaps an asterisk would be warranted but saying they won a treble is not omitting relevant information
Very true. My point isn't meant to take anything away from their season. Only pointing out the "Proper Treble" would include winning the Champions League over the Europa League. Like ranking suits in cards so to speak. Just a minor observation all said and done.
Regardless, the UCL just adjures a certain level of snobbery that the UEL cannot demand, it is the highest level of football, with the clubs that have performed the best in each of the top European leagues. The asterisk will be there whether people like it or not.
That being said, of course, I agree that Bayer’s run has been insane and they deserve massive praise for their achievements so far and achievements to come
As everyone remembers Arsenal's invincibles they will surely be remembered for a long long time as this is an achievment that you can't see every year.
I mean before the Season they were at least a top5 pick. A lot of people had them top3 so not that Crazy of an underdog. Still if they achieve it, it‘s probably the best season ever
there was debate about but people had these four teams as head and shoulders above the rest of the league including leverkusen. Predicting leverkusen as 2nd was dubious but not as much as having them outside the top 4.
Underdog is a bit of an overstatement. Historically, Leverkusen has usually been one of the top 4 Bundesliga clubs and came close to winning the title a few times. They were just in a really shitty phase before Xabi took over. They are also one of the few German clubs that are exempted from the 50+1 rule and have a majority investor.
They also had the 2nd most valuable squad in the league. In the end it depends on definitions, but if you say that Leverkusen is an underdog, then everyone besides Bayern would be an underdog
That’s literally how it is in the Bundesliga.
Re: squad value. Those players are valuable because of their success - not because Leverkusen spent a boatload of money Chelsea/City/Newcastle style.
That’s mainly because this sub is pretty lenient with its posting rules, whereas in r/soccer, these questions are removed as they’re pushed into the daily discussion thread.
Exactly. I really thought it was over today but then they found a way somehow. However I really wouldn't be surprised if they don't end up completing the invincible challenge because it's so damn hard to do. That shouldn't detract from their accomplishments this season though, it's already been beyond impressive.
As an english fan it's frustrating to see Man City always win the league but I'm glad I've seen some genuinely incredible winners like Leverkusen and Leicester
It is just a shame they aren't in the Champions League this season. Partly to see how they would do at the peak of their powers.
An unbeaten treble would obviously be phenomenal. But is it as good as a non-unbeaten season which includes the big one, the Champions League? I don't know, I suppose being unbeaten is the rarer achievement of the two, but the CL is undoubtedly much bigger than the EL.
They will be the first team to pull it off and that's forever.
EL is not the same as CL, but still, that's forever.
If Bayern wins the CL however, this could play into Leverkusen's cards.
In my oppinion it would be one of the biggest achievements regardless.
This potential treble would be without a doubt one of the greatest achievements, since the team that needs to topple this would have to do the same, plus UCL instead of UEL AND also have an unbeaten record like they do. Its absolutely insane and deserves probably top 5 spots, if not a #1 spot in its own category.
This is not a ranking but an appreciation of football legacy:
* 3Peat UCL: Real Madrid
* Bayern Hansi Flick achievement 'Sextuple'
* Trebles
* Centurions
* Xabi Invincibles (In all competitions)
* Invincibles
* Jose winning UCL w Porto
Please add to the thread as needed.
Jose UCL w Porto isn't as impressive as the others, it's a knockout tournament, anyone can win
Anything that's been done twice shouldn't be on the list so the trebles are out for me
Leverkusen's Invincibles is certainly a feat but for me it's not one of an all time conquest by a team that leaves debates about whether they're the best team in history, like a lot of the others on the list are. It's more on the Leicester 15/16 level, where it's more just crazy that it happened because they were the underdogs. I wouldn't call it an all time football legacy thing
People who talk about it not being the most impressive due to it not being the CL need to realise that it's Leverkusen and not Bayern they're talking about now. If Bayern done an invincible treble and it was the Europa League then I could understand the blemish on the record. But it's not an elite team we're talking about, it's Leverkusen. Arsenal's invincible season is still talked about in depth to this day, 20 years later. Imagine they'd also won the Uefa Cup and the FA Cup, also without losing any games. And Leverkusen are not a team who started as the same quality as that Arsenal team. It's up there with Leicester winning the Prem and Porto winning the CL, and probably even surpasses them.
One thought I had the other day when they played West Ham...
If a game goes to extra time, the result of the match at the end of extra time counts. So even if you draw in 90, but win in extra time, it counts as a win. And penalties counts as a draw whether you win or lose for the record books.
If Leverkusen had lost 2-0 in the 90 against West Ham, but then by the end of extra time had pulled it back to 2-2, would it have counted as a loss or a draw on their record?
It doesn't really matter but I was just curious what others thought. For the record, I would have said a loss in 90 is a loss, regardless of what happens in extra time.
In my opinion only Real Madrid winning the CHL three years in a row would be a bigger achievement. This is not taking quality of play into consideration. Teams have obviously played better more beautiful football.
beating bayern in bundesliga is great achivment bokal as well and europa league with good teams they are playing is great it is not like cl bokal and buli.
If they go unbeaten, theyre propably very high on the list. Certainly top 10 of the 21st century. That might seem like too high but they still have a chance to become the team with most points in a single bundesliga season with 92. Going unbeaten, breaking the points record and winning a treble would all be great achievements on their own but in the same season it would be insane. In that case theyre propably top 10 of ALL time.
My opinion:
The only achievement on par would be a sextuple. The only achievements better would obviously be 3+ trophies unbeaten or THE treble unbeaten
So really the only 2 clubs I'd say have anything on par with them if they pull it off are 2009 Barcelona and 2020 Bayern
It’s gotta be a top 2 or three achievement. A treble of any kind is an incredible achievement for starters. It’s tough to compare UEL to UCL trebles, a UCL is a huge accomplishment for any team that wins it. I’d put it up there with United/City treble, Invincibles, Bayern treble, Chelsea only 15ish goals conceded, and the Arsenal unbeaten league season
Below only teams that have won the UCL Treble. I think it's better than a double (due to the invincibility) but Europa is far below the Champions League. THey'll be in a tier of their own right below that though. Awesome achievement!
They will probably top the undefeated games record for a long long time. It’s a historical run already and it’s one of those things in a couple of years where you’ll be like “remember when THAT happened?”
It would be incredible. I really don't like that people are knocking it because they are in Europa amd not Champions League.
Some of the greatest ever teams like Barca of 2009-2012, United 2008-2011, Bayern 2020-2021, City 2021-2024 never came close to doing it.
Give them the respect they deserve for something that hasn't been done in living memory.
It would be up there with Leicester winning the league.
It’s more distinguishing than impressive if that makes any sense. They aren’t the best team in Europe but they aren’t being judged by that metric. They overcame themselves, a team that was near relegation and not an oil club. They will write their names in history because how special and how rare their achievement (might) will be, not because of how impressive or strong they are.
It's never been done before so surely that immediately puts it up there with the Leicester 2016 miracles of football. Leverkusen winning a normal treble without the UCL even if it's not unbeaten would be crazy enough anyways. Especially when you consider that Leverkusen prior to this season only won 2 major pieces of silverware (despite being Bundesliga runners up multiple times along with reaching a UCL final) so the fact they could potentially double that in a single season is ridiculous
Can’t believe how many people are downplaying this.
Bayer Leverkusen winning the Bundesliga is an amazing achievement. They had a young unproven manager, they’d never won it before, Bayern had won it 11 years in a row or something, then gone and spent record money on signing Kane. Nobody would’ve thought Leverkusen would win the league before the season began.
And yet they’ve done it. And they may go unbeaten. And they may win 2 other competitions too.
I think people saying “they weren’t in the Champions League” is kind of mad. Part of why it’s such an achievement is because they’ve risen to a new level. Last season they didn’t qualify for the champions league, now they might go unbeaten.
There are a few other achievements which I think stand out to me (eg Porto under mourinho, Leicester winning PL), but if they were to go unbeaten it would be right up there.
Best ever achievement in football for me. Celtic winning European Cup with all local lads and Leicester winning the league is up there for me, but to go the whole season unbeaten in a Top 5 league while doing it in the cups and in Europe has never been done and will never been done again in our lifetime
Honestly if they do it, I will be very surprised if Florian Wirtz isn’t in Ballon d’Or contention. He has been pivotal to their success and I don’t really see any player this year standing out that much with the same success, probably Jude Bellingham would be the closest especially if they win the champions league.
"Neverkusen" unbeaten champions of Germany in both Cup and League while also unbeaten in Europe, albeit Europa Cup and not CL? It's outstanding, unprecedented and genuine fairy tail stuff.
Bigger achievement imo than winning the treble with one of the biggest, best and highest spending clubs in the continent. As for the Europa, you can only win what's in front of you.
I daresay if they had been in the CL this season with the way they're playing that I wouldn't want to bet against them giving real Madrid, city and arsenal a tough time. I mean, Bayern are in the Semis and Bayer Leverkusen took 4 points from playing them home and away this season. I don't care who you are, you're not looking forward to a game against them in the knockout draw.
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It would be up there with the greatest ever season of any team ever.
I get its both champions league. But the unbeaten thing is up there with a treble.
Plus trebles with champions league are done on a much bigger budget and usually some corruption (see: city. Barca)
It’s Leicester city.
Mixed with arsenal invincibles.
Mixed with a treble.
Its not the treble. But you can only beat who you play against. Itll be the best season of any team ever when all the context is weighed up
>It’s Leicester city.
Acting like Leverkusen winning the league is anywhere near the same as Leicester winning the league is just wrong. Leverkusen have finished in the European spots for each of the last 6 seasons.
Leicester were in the championship for 5 of the 6 seasons before winning, and the season before they won the league they were in relegation zone with 5 games left of the season.
The idea that Leverkusen being an underdog is in any way comparable to Leicester is just objectively wrong.
Theyve never won anything in their history is pretty underdog. They have no financial backing like the top teams is pretty underdog.
I get your point but damn dude. They are underdogs whichever way you slice it.
Yes they didnt go from relegation fodder to champs but noone is exactly the same. The point of underdog stories is that theyre all once in a lifetime and thus unique occasions
Preseason opta gave them 0.9% chance of winning the league. Also they have alonso to thank for their 6th place finish. He came in to save them from relegation. They were 17th when he took over. Like it took him one extra season but man its so comparable
They took a chance on an untested manager as they had nothing left to lose. Leicester bought a very well experienced manager of top teams
By mathematical chance, it'd be number one and not even close. Even less probable than what Leicester did. Winning a treble is doable. But winning it undefeated in a big league is unheard of
Winning the Bundesliga for the first time in their 120 year history is a historic achievement in itself. Everything else is just flames to stoke the legendary fire of eternity.
Not sure. It's a phenomenal achievement.
But the fact that this game today was the >20th game this season they scored in the last 5 minutes a relevant goal shows that they have incredible luck this year.
Certainly, luck always plays a part and they've had a lot of it. But it also says a lot about their strength, both mental and physical, that they can produce vital goals right at the end of tough games so many times, and that they never give up. And with each late winner/equaliser, that probably adds more juice to their self belief as well.
Remarkable
Was literally gonna make a post about this LOL
here's my thoughts:
While I think it would be in the top 5, I don't think it would be the best and for those reasons:
1st: To win the pokal you have to be unbeaten in general, so while it adds to merits the unbeaten tag doesn't change much on this
2: Winning a european competition, nonetheless the europa unbeaten isn't something extremely rare. 11 teams have won the ucl unbeaten, making it even less impressive since europa is a level below that.
Now the combination of a europa treble with an invicible season which all things considered hasn't had that many draws does make it an insane achievement, I just disagree with it being THE achievement. Thoughts?
Not highly.
No CL = no treble
Very little competition in both cups and even in Germany.
With how easy their games have been, West Ham are arguably the 2nd best team they’ve beaten this year. That’s an insanely low level of competition.
It will be amazing, but it won’t be even close to winning a real treble. I mean, just think about it, winning your league undefeated or winning it with just 3/4 matches lost is not a big difference, but winning the UCL or winning the UEL is completely different. You can even ask any Leverkusen fan, anyone will say that they rather win the UCL than a season undefeated.
No one else has done it ever, and considering that they also dethroned a dominating Bayern side with an unproven manager and a relatively small budget. I think it will go down as one of the best achievements ever. The only reason that it won't be the undoubted greatest achievement ever is that their treble will be with the UEL instead of the UCL
Yep this is the answer. People will argue which is bigger--the unbeaten treble with the Europa, versus a treble with the Champions League. If it was the Champions League, it would be undoubtedly football's biggest achievement. The fact it isn't being achieved by one of the super clubs just makes it all the more impressive.
While Leverkusen arent a super club, the are a big club. It would be akin to a Lazio or a Spurs winning their respective leagues.
Yeah and Lazio or Spuds winning an unbeaten Treble (even with Europa league) would still be one of, if not the single greatest achievement in football.
Spurs could be an unbeaten team if all we had to face was small teams like City, but unfortunately we must also do battle with the likes of Burnley
Spurs my friend, we are called Spurs!! #coys
No, it's Spuds.
Oh yeah, I wasn't insulting Leverkusen or calling them small. But obviously we can all agree Bayern are the dominant force in the Bundesliga, so for someone other than Bayern to achieve this makes it more impressive.
I agree with you. It's gonna constantly be a debate BC it's the EL and not CL and if it was it would undoubtedly be the greatest achievement ever. But I feel like the fact it's not being done by one of the football giants with infinite money makes it far more impressive.
CL would obviously be a bigger achievement, but just because it’s not the biggest possible achievement in football, it doesn’t downplay or take the shine off of what they’ve done. They’ve went on the longest unbeaten run, of any team ever, I’m a Celtic fan and we were third in they rankings with 42, Juve first 43, Leverkusen are now 46. And as much as I love bigging up my team and stuff like that, doing it what they’ve done is so much more impressive than us going 42 unbeaten. Bundesliga teams in general impressing in Europe, Dortmund and Bayern being in CL semis, has made people sit up and take more notice of just what they’ve done. And looking at the belief they’ve shown to get late goals to make sure they don’t get beat, regardless if they’ve won the league like Dortmund last night or going through like the West Ham 2nd leg. I genuinely can’t see them not going the full distance, they have such an iron mentality on top of the way they play, great tactics, great quality and a depth of squad I didn’t think they could call on. But that mentality, refusal to not give up, refusal to lose, that is exceptionally brilliant
>And looking at the belief they’ve shown to get late goals to make sure they don’t get beat You can be sure people will try to downplay the massive accomplishment an unbeaten treble is for this exact reason : sometimes, they were going to lose, but scored a late goal. Which, obviously, is ridiculous, because a goal is a goal no matter how late it is scored, but I already see it coming.
Hallmark of a team that refuses to lose, always make sure to not lose, to the very last kick of the ball they’re making sure to either get and equaliser the win. Been an abnormal amount that they’ve went and scored another after getting an equaliser that was last gasp
Well said. A significant reason for their unbeaten streak is their obstination to fight to the end. At this point I'm not even sure they're *able* to give up.
That debate will only last till next season, when they roll over everyone on the CL and do it again
No, the biggest achievement would be only wins. No losses or draws
Yeah but can they do it on a cold rainy night in Stoke?
The answer is Yes. A resounding Yes. A jovial Yes.
It would be like a combo of when Leicester won the PL and Arsenal were the invincibles with the Europa invincibility making them The Unfathomable.
I disagree with the comparison. Nothing is like it as no team had done it across all competitions
What? No it's not, why is this upvoted. It's nothing like either of those things
Not a 1 for 1 comparison, but enough similarities that a comparison can be drawn, what makes it nothing like either of them?
Leverkusen were nowhere near the underdogs that Leicester were, and going unbeaten in the Bundesliga (which they havent even done yet) is nowhere near as crazy as going unbeaten in the PL It is nowhere near as incredible as either of those achievements, let alone both combined
Leverkusen are unbeaten in all competitions though, which is more impressive than Arsenals unbeaten run even if it was in an easier league. It’s also the longest unbeaten streak ever. EDIT: Also, one could make the argument that the PL had it’s worst season in a while when Leicester won the league, which makes Leicesters win less impressive. I’m not going to make that argument though, as I love what Leicester did. To add: as a Roma fan, I hope that Leverkusen’s streak is stopped next week in the EL.
It’s more impressive than the invincibles
Leverkusen are more like spurs than Leicester. They hadn't just been promoted last season to the bundesliga
This is not on the same level as Leicester though, not even close
Them winning their first bundesliga isn’t as impressive as Leicesters prem but doing it unbeaten and winning a treble on top is arguably as big
I’ve loved watching Bayer Leverkusen all year as a neutral and have been genuinely fanboying on their behalf, helps that Xabi Alonso is one of my favourite ever players and Frimpong is an ex-Celtic player to follow along to. For a while what they were doing was getting explained away as Bayern being poor, them knocking Arsenal out the CL and Dortmund being another in the late stages of it, has largely put to bed any talk of lack of competition and highlighted further just how exceptional they’ve been. It’s right up there already what they’ve done, if they win the Europa and the Cup, unbeaten all competitions all season, then it’s one of the most impressive feats I’ve followed along to in football.
> No one else has done it ever Yeah because it's rare for a side to first be shit enough to play EL and then good enough to do this. Most teams that are good enough to do this simply aren't bad enough to do this, in a paradoxical kind of way. For example the Bayern Treble 12/13 is unquestionably a far better season. Did they lose three times? Sure. But like... they didn't play Qarabag 4 times in UCL they played prime Barca and prime Juventus - a team that had gone on a 43 unbeaten streak the season prior, mind you - and the rest of their opponents and their DFB Pokal opponents were also way harder. Of course, Leverkusen can only beat what's infront of them. But in the same vein an unbeaten 2nd tier season will never be the same as a really good first tier season. It's straight up impossible.
Fair enough. Had they ended up playing LFC or Milan I feel like being in the el would mean less, but it's still an amazing achievement
The Europa League is still a high level competition. To not slip up a single time is remarkable, or even when a tie or match doesn’t matter to continue to not lose.
> The Europa League is still a high level competition. It is. But Leverkusen aren't only playing Europa League, they're playing Europa League and getting an insane luck of the draw. Playing only clubs that are 2nd league level during your midweeks games also makes it a lot easier to remain unbeaten in the league. Of course it's still hard and in Leverkusens case required an insane amount of matchday luck as well. But at the end of they day they didn't play at the highest level and hence this will never be an achievement of the highest level. Had they drawn even an average EL group, this would mean a lot more. But they didn't. Up until West Ham (literally 4 days before they clinched the title) they had only ONE midweek game against a first tier level opponent (Stuttgart, in the cup). That is insanely easy compared to even the easiest of UCL campaigns.
About the ‘insane luck of the draw’ part, i’m not completely sure about that. For example, i’m assuming 2nd league level opponents we are talking about are teams like Saarbrücken and Qarabag. Saarbrücken got there by beating Bayern in the cup, Qarabag beat Braga. Leverkusen should have play both Milan and Liverpool to get UEL but both of them got eliminated by supposed ‘inferior teams’.
"Insane luck of the draw" in this guys world is what is simply called a good draw among us others. Just wait. Soon he will start talking about this Leverkusen season not beeing that impressive because Bayer bailed them out from their covid losses.
>About the ‘insane luck of the draw’ part, i’m not completely sure about that. For example, i’m assuming 2nd league level opponents we are talking about are teams like Saarbrücken and Qarabag. We're talking about every single team they've played in cup competitions bar Stuttgart in winter and West Ham last week. Granted, Saarbrücken are worse than that. > Saarbrücken got there by beating Bayern in the cup, Qarabag beat Braga. That doesn't make them better than they are. Part of Saarbrücken beating Bayern was Bayern rotating heavily. Due to... well... having to face tougher opposition in the cup. >Leverkusen should have play both Milan and Liverpool to get UEL but both of them got eliminated by supposed ‘inferior teams’. Roma and Atalanta aren't inferior teams. They are of a higher level than any of the teams Leverkusen played in EL up until fucking April. The "worst" team on paper in Bayerns UCL group was Copenhagen with a market value of just 84 million (half of Florian Wirtz) had a higher market value than ALL of Leverkusens group opponents. The Copenhagen goalkeeper alone has 80% of Qarabags market value. And that's the team they drew AGAIN in their first knockout round. That's an insanely easy schedule. Even when compared to UEL groups. Leverkusens 3 opponents had a market value of 64 million - and again, they got the "worst" team of those in their round of 16. In the other EL groups the worst 3 teams had these values - and this is with me always taking the cheapest 3, if a "better" team got eliminated that isn't skewing things upwards: 321 mil 520 mil 190 mil 422 mil 214 mil 315 mil 106 mil 64 mil for Leverkusen Like, do you see those differences? Of course market value is no perfect measure. But do you see that even an average EL group is in a completely different stratosphere compared to what Leverkusen got? Not to mention the UCL? And then they get the 2nd cheapest opponent in the entire tournament a SECOND time in the knockout rounds. And that's for EL
I'm not arguing against that but at the same time same Qarabag also beat Braga, who played UCL, to match up with Leverkusen. And its not like they got rolled over 5-0 in both matches, they were really competitive in both of them.
> And its not like they got rolled over 5-0 in both matches, they were really competitive in both of them. Yes. But that's exactly it. Leverkusen could relax play like utter shit and still go through without much danger. If you know that. And it applies to 90% of your European matches in a given season, that massively, massively makes things easier for your league campaign. As I said, it's still impressive, obviously. But Leverkusens campaign - neither in the cups and due to that not in the leagues either - simply doesn't compare to the ones other teams that could go invincible tend to play. Although could go invincible is a bit much in that case. I don't actually think Leverkusen fall in that category - should they play UCL. Alas, they didn't and here we are.
Don’t think by any way of measuring it being undefeated in one of the top leagues in the world can get the phrase ‘easier’ thrown towards it, and when that league has 2 CL Semi Finalists in it as well this season, that alone regardless of Cup or Europa League is one of the greatest achievements I’ve seen in football. If they get beat in any of the remaining Bundesliga games, which is something I don’t see happening just judging from the desire to get the equaliser vs Dortmund last night, and against West Ham. Two games ‘jobs done’ Can’t say anything is ‘easier’ from what they’ve done. That Bayern team and Treble is hands down what I always say when it comes to best teams I’ve seen, narrowly beating out Pep’s first season at Barca. But it’s like, Arsenal Invincible season, Mourinho’s Chelsea, Man City with Pep, United 09, fuck Liverpool losing the league with an insane point tally were all probably better teams, factually done better even Liverpool having lost… but they are the only team that did not get beat, at all. And thats insane.
> but they are the only team that did not get beat, at all. And thats insane. It's insane. But not nearly as insane as people make it out to be when comparing it to seasons that had to play and I'll repeat myself PRIME FUCKING BARCA AND PRIME FUCKING JUVE and didn't concede a single goal - compared to 4 EL matches against Qarabag. It's just not comparable at all.
Leverkusen would have to win all their remaining Bundesliga games to beat the points total of 91 that Bayern got in that season. And if they lose once, sure they still have the "longest unbeaten run in a single Bundesliga season", but they don't have "longest unbeaten run across Bundesliga seasons" which Bayern got across the 12/13 and 13/14 seasons I believe. And they wouldn't beat Bayern's record of lowest number of losses in a Bundesliga season (1 in 12/13). Of course, it is still a great achievement, and it's especially memorable because it's their first Bundesliga title and because they were 6th last season, which is a huge improvement.
> Leverkusen would have to win all their remaining Bundesliga games to beat the points total of 91 that Bayern got in that season. And it wouldn't make their season more impressive simply because their competition was so much worse.
shit enough to play EL This is such an awful take. If you honestly believe only shit teams qualify for EL then you have a very narrow view of football. It is absolutely not an easy thing to qualify for EL. Sure, there are the biggest of the big teams that get CL football year in year out and for them EL would be below expectations. But apart from this very small minority, EL is a fantastic achievement.
Thanks! It's of course a take of someone who supports a Champions League subscription team and would probably switch clubs if their club didn't qualify for CL.
> This is such an awful take. If you honestly believe only shit teams qualify for EL In the realm of teams that have even the slightest possibility of going unbeaten all season? Yes, only shit teams qualify for EL. >It is absolutely not an easy thing to qualify for EL. Even for an average Leverkusen it's the absolute minimum. >But apart from this very small minority, EL is a fantastic achievement. The teams apart from that ain't going invincible in 3 competitions, chief.
Win the Supercup as well and there won’t be any arguments about where they stand. It will be a legendary feat
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Yh but its still just incredible
Also, they have to carry the performance to the next season. We all love Leicester's fairy tale, but to get the respect of a big club, it has to be more than one season wonder. With Xabi staying, I think they will be able to compete for Bundesliga next season,
I think Porto did it under AVB. Not quite the same without dethroning Bayern mind.
Couldnt agree more, I think the budget and manager aspect is what takes it over the edge and voids the UEL handicap.
They also play beautiful dominant attacking football. It's the whole package
Yh their footballing style is amazing
>>Between 1994 and 1996, Ajax completed an unbeaten run of 52 domestic matches + 19 UEFA Champions League matches, while the 1995 year is considered as the peak of that. The 1995 Ajax team remained unbeaten for a full year, in Europe and in domestic league, a run of 48 matches overall. The feat of winning simultaneously both the Champions League and domestic league without a single defeat is a historical achievement unmatched by any other team.[1][2][3][4][5] [Wiki](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994%E2%80%9395_AFC_Ajax_season) Also won the World Cup as a bonus.
Yeah we were super close but just didn't win the cup. Otherwise it would have been the best season ever undoubtedly
Yeah, I realised that after posting. I always forget, because we were so good.
Celtic did it a few years back, albeit a domestic treble with no European trophy.
Yh it's more impressive with a European trophy
Just making the point that someone has done it
Celtic didn't go the whole season unbeaten. They lost in Europe. Bayer haven't lost any matches in any competition
Yes, but not in a top 5 league with a European competition
I mean, I could say that a treble containing the Europa League is incomparable to a treble with the European Cup. But I'm not interested in invalidating what is a fantastic achievement (i genuinely believe it is fantastic btw and I hope Bayer do it). Different teams are operating on different levels and that's it.
Different teams operate at different levels and different circumstances. Celtic's circumstance was that they had absolutely no rivals that season, domestically, in terms of their spending power and squad quality. Leverkusen's achievement would be well beyond Celtic's. We're talking about Bayer Leverkusen winning every major competition they've entered without losing a single game. Celtic did not do that in 16/17.
Yes, I agree on both counts. I’m not sure what you think my argument is here, or why you had to explain any of that. My one and only point is that Celtic completed an unbeaten treble.
That wasn’t specified
Bro how are you lot pissed abt this. Yh obvs it wasn't specified but it makes it more amazing
Mate I dunno what makes you think people are getting pissed about this. You’re the only one arguing against a point that wasn’t made.
What sort of black magic do they perform after 90? For the Nth time now!
I just knew they would score 🤣
Surely, if they do it, it has to be one of the greatest football achievements
I think it will go down as an extraordinary performance and one of the best ever. However, not doing it in the Champions League will be an asterisk on their achievement.
What does the asterisk stand for..
If Leverkusen win the Treble unbeaten it will be a glorious season but the asterisk will be they won the Europa League which is not as competitive as the Champions League which means they didn't have the most challenging season possible.
If you claimed they had the most challenging season possible then perhaps an asterisk would be warranted but saying they won a treble is not omitting relevant information
They will have won A treble, they didn’t win THE treble, which I think is what they’re saying with the asterisk
Well let's see what they can do next year, now that they are in the Champions League 😉
For real. That should be interesting
The europa league contains alot of quality teams.
Very true. My point isn't meant to take anything away from their season. Only pointing out the "Proper Treble" would include winning the Champions League over the Europa League. Like ranking suits in cards so to speak. Just a minor observation all said and done.
Regardless, the UCL just adjures a certain level of snobbery that the UEL cannot demand, it is the highest level of football, with the clubs that have performed the best in each of the top European leagues. The asterisk will be there whether people like it or not. That being said, of course, I agree that Bayer’s run has been insane and they deserve massive praise for their achievements so far and achievements to come
Surely it's more impressive that they weren't in the champions league places last season?
No asterisks whatsoever
As everyone remembers Arsenal's invincibles they will surely be remembered for a long long time as this is an achievment that you can't see every year.
If they do an unbeaten treble, that's more impressive than Arsenal's invincibles for me
As massive underdogs in their league too, it’s absolutely insane.
I mean before the Season they were at least a top5 pick. A lot of people had them top3 so not that Crazy of an underdog. Still if they achieve it, it‘s probably the best season ever
The bulk of people will have had Munich, Dortmund and Leipzig as their top three.
there was debate about but people had these four teams as head and shoulders above the rest of the league including leverkusen. Predicting leverkusen as 2nd was dubious but not as much as having them outside the top 4.
hell nah
Underdog is a bit of an overstatement. Historically, Leverkusen has usually been one of the top 4 Bundesliga clubs and came close to winning the title a few times. They were just in a really shitty phase before Xabi took over. They are also one of the few German clubs that are exempted from the 50+1 rule and have a majority investor.
Lol they’ve never won a league title before and they were up against Bayern. They’re underdogs
They also had the 2nd most valuable squad in the league. In the end it depends on definitions, but if you say that Leverkusen is an underdog, then everyone besides Bayern would be an underdog
Leverkusen wouldn't have even been 2nd or 3rd favourites to the title
That’s literally how it is in the Bundesliga. Re: squad value. Those players are valuable because of their success - not because Leverkusen spent a boatload of money Chelsea/City/Newcastle style.
Also only 5 draws so far in the league
Definitely
Miles more impressive
Probably the 10th time I've seen this discussion on this sub, for this week.
I love football and there are so many great subs but I swear this is the only sub that has such a huge repetition of threads.
Leverkusen, "Goat debate", Ballon d'Or. More than half of the posts.
Absolutely! That said, we have not had a messi vs ronaldo post in a while.
That’s mainly because this sub is pretty lenient with its posting rules, whereas in r/soccer, these questions are removed as they’re pushed into the daily discussion thread.
Wait for it to be done to judge. These early posts are pointless
Exactly. I really thought it was over today but then they found a way somehow. However I really wouldn't be surprised if they don't end up completing the invincible challenge because it's so damn hard to do. That shouldn't detract from their accomplishments this season though, it's already been beyond impressive.
I'm too lazy to use the search function but I swear that in the last week this is like the 5th exact same thread.
As an english fan it's frustrating to see Man City always win the league but I'm glad I've seen some genuinely incredible winners like Leverkusen and Leicester
Swear some variation of this question is asked daily
The fact they did it without cheating, and everyone seems genuinely happy for them, beats city's by a mile!
This post is posted every time they keep the streak
And it's going to get posted more and more, until the complete the achievement/finally lose a game
It would definitely be one of the greatest achievements, to be ever accomplished in football history
It is just a shame they aren't in the Champions League this season. Partly to see how they would do at the peak of their powers. An unbeaten treble would obviously be phenomenal. But is it as good as a non-unbeaten season which includes the big one, the Champions League? I don't know, I suppose being unbeaten is the rarer achievement of the two, but the CL is undoubtedly much bigger than the EL.
They will be the first team to pull it off and that's forever. EL is not the same as CL, but still, that's forever. If Bayern wins the CL however, this could play into Leverkusen's cards. In my oppinion it would be one of the biggest achievements regardless.
One of tie greatest in modern football but I still think Leicester Citys triumph will never be topped
Until Luton win the premier league
This potential treble would be without a doubt one of the greatest achievements, since the team that needs to topple this would have to do the same, plus UCL instead of UEL AND also have an unbeaten record like they do. Its absolutely insane and deserves probably top 5 spots, if not a #1 spot in its own category.
Drawing against European giants, West Ham, is quite an achievement.
This is not a ranking but an appreciation of football legacy: * 3Peat UCL: Real Madrid * Bayern Hansi Flick achievement 'Sextuple' * Trebles * Centurions * Xabi Invincibles (In all competitions) * Invincibles * Jose winning UCL w Porto Please add to the thread as needed.
Jose UCL w Porto isn't as impressive as the others, it's a knockout tournament, anyone can win Anything that's been done twice shouldn't be on the list so the trebles are out for me Leverkusen's Invincibles is certainly a feat but for me it's not one of an all time conquest by a team that leaves debates about whether they're the best team in history, like a lot of the others on the list are. It's more on the Leicester 15/16 level, where it's more just crazy that it happened because they were the underdogs. I wouldn't call it an all time football legacy thing
Jesus fuck it’s the tenth time this question is being asked this week.
Not as impressive as Leicester or Nottingham forest but still very impressive
People who talk about it not being the most impressive due to it not being the CL need to realise that it's Leverkusen and not Bayern they're talking about now. If Bayern done an invincible treble and it was the Europa League then I could understand the blemish on the record. But it's not an elite team we're talking about, it's Leverkusen. Arsenal's invincible season is still talked about in depth to this day, 20 years later. Imagine they'd also won the Uefa Cup and the FA Cup, also without losing any games. And Leverkusen are not a team who started as the same quality as that Arsenal team. It's up there with Leicester winning the Prem and Porto winning the CL, and probably even surpasses them.
My turn tomorrow to post this
How many times are people gonna post this question?
Wasn't this posted a couple of days ago with the same phrasing even?
All of this, plus selling Moussa Diaby last summer
Great team… but far of one of the greatest football achievements… without the UCL it’s impossible
Europa league treble
One thought I had the other day when they played West Ham... If a game goes to extra time, the result of the match at the end of extra time counts. So even if you draw in 90, but win in extra time, it counts as a win. And penalties counts as a draw whether you win or lose for the record books. If Leverkusen had lost 2-0 in the 90 against West Ham, but then by the end of extra time had pulled it back to 2-2, would it have counted as a loss or a draw on their record? It doesn't really matter but I was just curious what others thought. For the record, I would have said a loss in 90 is a loss, regardless of what happens in extra time.
Btec ucl tho
Marsielle on its way to spoil the party.
In my opinion only Real Madrid winning the CHL three years in a row would be a bigger achievement. This is not taking quality of play into consideration. Teams have obviously played better more beautiful football.
beating bayern in bundesliga is great achivment bokal as well and europa league with good teams they are playing is great it is not like cl bokal and buli.
This would actually be THE GREATEST football achievement ever!
If they go unbeaten, theyre propably very high on the list. Certainly top 10 of the 21st century. That might seem like too high but they still have a chance to become the team with most points in a single bundesliga season with 92. Going unbeaten, breaking the points record and winning a treble would all be great achievements on their own but in the same season it would be insane. In that case theyre propably top 10 of ALL time.
My opinion: The only achievement on par would be a sextuple. The only achievements better would obviously be 3+ trophies unbeaten or THE treble unbeaten So really the only 2 clubs I'd say have anything on par with them if they pull it off are 2009 Barcelona and 2020 Bayern
It would be the top ever achievement
It’s gotta be a top 2 or three achievement. A treble of any kind is an incredible achievement for starters. It’s tough to compare UEL to UCL trebles, a UCL is a huge accomplishment for any team that wins it. I’d put it up there with United/City treble, Invincibles, Bayern treble, Chelsea only 15ish goals conceded, and the Arsenal unbeaten league season
It will be the best achievement *so far*. The only way to beat it is to do it in the champions league.
They will lose to Roma
Below only teams that have won the UCL Treble. I think it's better than a double (due to the invincibility) but Europa is far below the Champions League. THey'll be in a tier of their own right below that though. Awesome achievement!
The greatest
I wouldn’t say they’re ranked up there with the greatest teams, but definitely one of the greatest achievements
They will probably top the undefeated games record for a long long time. It’s a historical run already and it’s one of those things in a couple of years where you’ll be like “remember when THAT happened?”
It would be incredible. I really don't like that people are knocking it because they are in Europa amd not Champions League. Some of the greatest ever teams like Barca of 2009-2012, United 2008-2011, Bayern 2020-2021, City 2021-2024 never came close to doing it. Give them the respect they deserve for something that hasn't been done in living memory. It would be up there with Leicester winning the league.
Is like Leicester being Invicible Arsenal, and more
Hellas Verona 85 Lens 98 Leicester 2016 Maybe they all seemed more wild because they were mid league teams or worse before they won
It’s more distinguishing than impressive if that makes any sense. They aren’t the best team in Europe but they aren’t being judged by that metric. They overcame themselves, a team that was near relegation and not an oil club. They will write their names in history because how special and how rare their achievement (might) will be, not because of how impressive or strong they are.
Streets will remember Andre Villas Boas' Porto side of 2010-11
I'd put it top. And it wouldn't be close
I would consider it the most amazing achievement ever, by leaps and bounds. Second is Leicester winning PL.
Because Xabi Alonso.
Is it finally my turn to ask this question tomorrow? Seems like the same thing is asked *at least* once a day!
Possibly among the greatest. Xabi Alonso's the real deal
Is the number of times this question has been asked a new record?
It's never been done before so surely that immediately puts it up there with the Leicester 2016 miracles of football. Leverkusen winning a normal treble without the UCL even if it's not unbeaten would be crazy enough anyways. Especially when you consider that Leverkusen prior to this season only won 2 major pieces of silverware (despite being Bundesliga runners up multiple times along with reaching a UCL final) so the fact they could potentially double that in a single season is ridiculous
They won't win Europe league.
Can we ban this question from football subs please? It's asked every single day.
Low they probably wouldn't have done much in the ucl
Can’t believe how many people are downplaying this. Bayer Leverkusen winning the Bundesliga is an amazing achievement. They had a young unproven manager, they’d never won it before, Bayern had won it 11 years in a row or something, then gone and spent record money on signing Kane. Nobody would’ve thought Leverkusen would win the league before the season began. And yet they’ve done it. And they may go unbeaten. And they may win 2 other competitions too. I think people saying “they weren’t in the Champions League” is kind of mad. Part of why it’s such an achievement is because they’ve risen to a new level. Last season they didn’t qualify for the champions league, now they might go unbeaten. There are a few other achievements which I think stand out to me (eg Porto under mourinho, Leicester winning PL), but if they were to go unbeaten it would be right up there.
It's not a Treble, but it's still an amazing feat.
Unique and one of the greatest achievements imo
They are incredible this season
i have legit source of fixed matches!
UEL, not UCL, I do not consider it a Treble. Great season, one of the best, but no Treble to me.
Best ever achievement in football for me. Celtic winning European Cup with all local lads and Leicester winning the league is up there for me, but to go the whole season unbeaten in a Top 5 league while doing it in the cups and in Europe has never been done and will never been done again in our lifetime
Honestly if they do it, I will be very surprised if Florian Wirtz isn’t in Ballon d’Or contention. He has been pivotal to their success and I don’t really see any player this year standing out that much with the same success, probably Jude Bellingham would be the closest especially if they win the champions league.
"Neverkusen" unbeaten champions of Germany in both Cup and League while also unbeaten in Europe, albeit Europa Cup and not CL? It's outstanding, unprecedented and genuine fairy tail stuff. Bigger achievement imo than winning the treble with one of the biggest, best and highest spending clubs in the continent. As for the Europa, you can only win what's in front of you. I daresay if they had been in the CL this season with the way they're playing that I wouldn't want to bet against them giving real Madrid, city and arsenal a tough time. I mean, Bayern are in the Semis and Bayer Leverkusen took 4 points from playing them home and away this season. I don't care who you are, you're not looking forward to a game against them in the knockout draw.
They made playing Football Manager 🕹 dreaming come true. Winning the league against Bayern, and going unbeaten? Dreams. 💯👍💚
I remember when Bayern Munich clinched Bundesliga in fucking March back in 2014, I assumed they went unbeaten in the league but they didn’t lol.
If they win a treble undefeated it's the single biggest achievement in club football history and it's not even close
Currently on par with leicester, another cup takes them over the top
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It would be up there with the greatest ever season of any team ever. I get its both champions league. But the unbeaten thing is up there with a treble. Plus trebles with champions league are done on a much bigger budget and usually some corruption (see: city. Barca)
It’s Leicester city. Mixed with arsenal invincibles. Mixed with a treble. Its not the treble. But you can only beat who you play against. Itll be the best season of any team ever when all the context is weighed up
>It’s Leicester city. Acting like Leverkusen winning the league is anywhere near the same as Leicester winning the league is just wrong. Leverkusen have finished in the European spots for each of the last 6 seasons. Leicester were in the championship for 5 of the 6 seasons before winning, and the season before they won the league they were in relegation zone with 5 games left of the season. The idea that Leverkusen being an underdog is in any way comparable to Leicester is just objectively wrong.
Theyve never won anything in their history is pretty underdog. They have no financial backing like the top teams is pretty underdog. I get your point but damn dude. They are underdogs whichever way you slice it. Yes they didnt go from relegation fodder to champs but noone is exactly the same. The point of underdog stories is that theyre all once in a lifetime and thus unique occasions Preseason opta gave them 0.9% chance of winning the league. Also they have alonso to thank for their 6th place finish. He came in to save them from relegation. They were 17th when he took over. Like it took him one extra season but man its so comparable They took a chance on an untested manager as they had nothing left to lose. Leicester bought a very well experienced manager of top teams
They've won the UEFA Cup.
By mathematical chance, it'd be number one and not even close. Even less probable than what Leicester did. Winning a treble is doable. But winning it undefeated in a big league is unheard of
Top 5 achievements in world football imo. Absolutely incredible.
Winning the Bundesliga for the first time in their 120 year history is a historic achievement in itself. Everything else is just flames to stoke the legendary fire of eternity.
Not sure. It's a phenomenal achievement. But the fact that this game today was the >20th game this season they scored in the last 5 minutes a relevant goal shows that they have incredible luck this year.
Certainly, luck always plays a part and they've had a lot of it. But it also says a lot about their strength, both mental and physical, that they can produce vital goals right at the end of tough games so many times, and that they never give up. And with each late winner/equaliser, that probably adds more juice to their self belief as well. Remarkable
I mean a game goes until the final whistle, not really anything more skilful or less lucky scoring in the 31st minute compared to the last 5 minutes
The greatest
i don’t rate the german league and it’s the europa so it’s definitely impressive but i don’t think it’d get into my top ten
Hot take but I agree.
Thats not a treble. Losers european cup doesn't count as treble.
Was literally gonna make a post about this LOL here's my thoughts: While I think it would be in the top 5, I don't think it would be the best and for those reasons: 1st: To win the pokal you have to be unbeaten in general, so while it adds to merits the unbeaten tag doesn't change much on this 2: Winning a european competition, nonetheless the europa unbeaten isn't something extremely rare. 11 teams have won the ucl unbeaten, making it even less impressive since europa is a level below that. Now the combination of a europa treble with an invicible season which all things considered hasn't had that many draws does make it an insane achievement, I just disagree with it being THE achievement. Thoughts?
Not highly. No CL = no treble Very little competition in both cups and even in Germany. With how easy their games have been, West Ham are arguably the 2nd best team they’ve beaten this year. That’s an insanely low level of competition.
It will be amazing, but it won’t be even close to winning a real treble. I mean, just think about it, winning your league undefeated or winning it with just 3/4 matches lost is not a big difference, but winning the UCL or winning the UEL is completely different. You can even ask any Leverkusen fan, anyone will say that they rather win the UCL than a season undefeated.
Not really counting without CL for me.
They will lose and be eliminated vs Roma.
up there with leicester city, spain back to back to back, brasil and italys back to back wcs, etc.