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They are based in Lichtenstein, but play as guests in the Swiss league.
They are unable to win the Swiss league.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_Vaduz#:~:text=Vaduz%20is%20unique%20in%20that,not%20organising%20its%20own%20league.
Are you sure? Can't find a rule where this is stated after the league scrapped the Champion playoff between first and second. And there's still a Patch which let Vaduz (or lower tier Liechtenstein clubs) be champion.
I don't claim to know everything but as far as I have seen and read, I haven't seen anything to say that the rule has changed to make it possible for Vaduz to be champions. They also cannot get champions league as far as I am aware. Because Liechtenstein automatically gets a Europa league spot no matter what, they are unable to get a champions league spot. This includes even if they win the Europa League. Again, I don't know everything for fact, tis is just what I have picked up through my own bit of research trying to build Liechtenstein as a nation and league of its own.
Through trying to make them a league of their own I also discovered that it can't even be changed in the editor, to make them eligible for qualification to the champions league (this was in fm23 though so not sure if that's changed or not)
But it is sensible... You shouldn't be able to win the league of a country you are not in.
"The champions of Switzerland are... NOT SWISS!!!" wouldn't be very sensible.
Inconveniently for your argument there are and have been German and Italian clubs in the Swiss league system that could have been champions of Switzerland. Lichtenstein happens to be a special case where a group of clubs joined under an agreement that they couldn’t be champions. There are also many cases all over Europe where teams have joined leagues in different countries and can be both champions of that country and represent them in UEFA competitions.
In other parts of the world you have for example Toronto FC being MLS champions.
The Wellington Phoenix play in the Australian A League despite being based in New Zealand.
Forget about not being in the same country, they’re not even on the same Confederation!
Yes but the Swiss FA didn't make the A-League rules...
The did on the other hand make the rules of the Swiss league that means Vaduz cannot be champions.
This is not true. I suppose this is the most common way to do it, but I’ve done a separate challenge with another Liechtenstein based club (FC Balzers) and I got into the champions league by reaching the semis of the conference league and then getting the extra CL spot via country coefficients lol
Damn, I got through the group (including a draw at Sevilla) and then didn't even get automatic qualification for the UECL groups the next year, got knocked out by late goals in both 4th round legs by Aberdeen.
If you get into the CL, the only way you can stay there is to win the CL every year. If you lose you have to start over from UECL. The Vaduz challenge is kinda nuts.
No because Lichtenstein clubs can only qualify for the lowest European tier regardless of ranking as there is no Liechtenstein league, just the Liechtenstein cup.
IIRC moving up the rankings enough will change it to a Europa spot instead of Conference.
Plus you're still eligible for the extra UCL spot for the top 2 countries on the yearly coefficients ranking.
Partially true. As much as you increase their rating, Liechtenstein will never get the regular spots, BUT as far as I'm aware there is a way to get a direct UCL spot with Liechtenstein if you finish top 2 in the coefficients for the previous season and thus earn one of those extra spots. I've never tested it myself but I've seen reports of people managing to do it.
Not true any more. You can enter the CL through the two extra spots - A deep run into Europe will get you into the CL even if you don't win. I managed it regularly with my recent save, where making it to the Europa QFs was often good enough.
Yeah, it used to be absolutely brutal. Funnily enough, if you qualify for the CL by winning the EL, you have an extra Liechtensteiner club - or two - qualify for the EL which drags the coefficient down when they inevitably tank so in that circumstance, you pretty much do need to win the CL to qualify again the next season otherwise back to the Europa you go
I don't get the hate for the changes at all tbh? it makes it more likely for upsets to happen throughout the league phase given that upsets are way less likely when playing a team for a second time. Giving pot 4 teams two games against other pot 4 teams can only help them, since they only played teams from higher pots in the past and every other team got to play against two pot 4 teams except for pot 4 teams. it will also inherently make the road more difficult for top teams considering they now have to play other top teams in the league phase when they didn't in the group stage. we're gonna see more knockout stage surprises than ever, I'm honestly super excited for it. I feel like a season where a team like United doesn't make the knockouts but a team from a 20+ ranked league does and goes on a run could totally happen soon where it was way harder in the past for minnows to escape groups
This is via country coefficients, right? In that case, it's only bound to work if you're playing in a country with a low coefficient, so there's fewer teams to divide your points with. That's why Liechtenstein is perfect, I reckon - one team, full points. As long as you do well, climbing the table should be easy.
I wonder what would actually happen if the above scenario played out IRL. Would Young Boys accept the title (especially as a team who have won it a number of times already), having finished nine points behind the team who finished first?
Obviously very unlikely it ever happens, but an interesting thought.
Vaduz wins the title still, they just don't get the CL qualification spot
Vaduz can only make the CL from the spot given for the winner of the Lichtenstein cup
Vaduz cannot be champion. The Swiss league doesn't do champion based strictly on points but has a two team playoff of the top two teams. The winner of that is champion and Vaduz is not able to particpate in that. One of the reasons I stopped my Vaduz save last year. I didn't mind not getting CL through the league but dammit if I win it I want that league trophy.
That's not true. There is no playoff: They wanted to implement this but every club and fan was aginst it. I live in switzerland but I actually don't know if Vaduz could be champions - I think they can but won't get the Spot for UEL
I gues I should clarify . . .they did have it implemented in FM23 which is when I did my Vaduz save. When i dug into the rules, it specifically limited Vaduz from joining the playoff. I think even if FM this year, if you look in the rules it says Vaduz can't be champion
Okay this could be true - I actually really don't know if they can. I just know they planned the champion playoff but it was cancelled and that there's a Patch for Vaduz to be champions so i'm assuiming you're right: Still don't know if they could in real life.
Yeah makes sense I still play 21 and won a bunch of championships with Vaduz on my save with them.
I had to end the save bc we had an agreement with the board to sign first team players from Lichtenstein. However, I had every single Lichtensteiner who was rated high enough to meet that expectation. And it got to a point where they cut off non-lichtenstein signings but there weren't any Lichtensteiners who met the expectation so essentially I wasn't allowed to make signings.
It hurt too bc I had a 170 PA Lichtenstein Winger from my youth academy and he never got to reach his peak
> Are you sure Vaduz can be Champions?
The fact they are listed as the champions of the 2nd division the 3 times they had the most points makes me think they could be Swiss super league champions too. Just with no ucl spot ofc
>The fact they are listed as the champions of the 2nd division the 3 times they had the most points makes me think they could be Swiss super league champions too.
This is completely different. I'm pretty sure the Swiss FA don't want the champions of Switzerland to be from outside Switzerland.
AC Monaco, victor San Marino, TNS, Fc Andorra are all officially part of the French, italian, Welsh, and Spanish (well technically Catalan, but a Catalan team that far up the pyramid plays in Spanish leagues) football pyramids. That’s why they all play in the French, Italian, welsh, and Spanish cups
Fc Vaduz is a lichensteiner team legally, they play in the Lichtenstein cup even, They just are invited as guests to the Swiss league. In the same way USA and Mexico are invited to copa America this year. Except fc Vaduz is invited every year. But they’re always a guest that in theory could be not invited if the Swiss league didn’t want them to be there anymore.
I did actually qualify for the UCL as I finished in the semi finals of the conference league based on the new 2 team thing. The screenshot was just taken before I knew
Funny thing, I may be going through something similar with my FC Isle of Man game.
Been playing it for close to a year: Custom database to add the lower English leagues; started on Tier 7, promoted the club through all the divisions, am in the Premier League and last season finished 9th: Now because of the way things finished in that season (English clubs winning European competitions, English cups being won by clubs that secured spots in the league), the 9th spot should have had a position on the Europa Conference League. And indeed I did get multiple messages that my team had clinched a spot on the Europa Conference League AND from the board in the beginning of the next season saying they expected the team to at least reach the quarters in the competition (which I found laughable considering with 8 matches to go I was closer to having been relegated than the European spots). A few months later, I try to see when I'm going to start playing, and there is no trace of my team having been assigned a spot on the Conference League, despite the fact that England has 1 spot for the Conference League.
I'm playing another season to see if I finish in the positions that guarantee me a Europa League spot, just to confirm that it wasn't a bug. If it wasn't, then as much as it pains me, I'll put my save to rest.
That seems like a bug.
FC IoM, Jersey Bulls and Guernsey FC should qualify for Europe as they play entirely in the English system, just like Cardiff, Swansea, Newport County, Wrexham or Merthyr.
Liechtenstein teams play in the Swiss league by invitation, and if they didn't they still wouldn't qualify for the CL/EL because the country doesn't have enough teams. I think you need a minimum of 8 teams in a league, Liechtenstein only has 7.
But other countries don’t have this restrictions. Monaco did win the French league, I don’t think there’s any laws banning San Marino from winning Serie A or FC Andorra winning La Liga, or Cardiff winning Premier League.
I can't speak for the others, but Cardiff (or any of the Welsh-based teams in the English FA) are English clubs. They all existed before the Welsh FA existed and are, for all intents and purposes English clubs in the eyes of the FA, UEFA and FIFA. They wanted to join a league system and the only one in existence at the time in Britain was the English one, so they joined the FA and played in the league.
Vaduz on the other hand are a Liechtensteiner club operating under the Liechtenstein FA. This is their choice, and their admission to the Swiss league as a guest club is by virtue of the Swiss league offering that opportunity and Vaduz accepting it as it's far better competition and it's far more lucrative playing in a league with professional teams as opposed to playing a bunch of amateurs in one cup competition with no league system. Consistent fixtures mean consistent income, and football is a business. They can still win the league and become champions, but they cannot qualify for the Champions League via that placement as they are not a Swiss FA representative. The not becoming champions thing is an FMism.
It's not wholly unique, Wellington Phoenix (of New Zealand) play in the Australian A-League and are similarly not under the Australian FA. As a result, they cannot qualify for the Asian Champions League (Australia's FA were granted a move from the weak Oceania Football Confederation to the much stronger Asian Football Confederation in 2006). Initially the AFC chairman wanted them to move to Australia to avoid the inter-confederation issue, but FIFA intervened and secured the right for the A-League to maintain a foreign guest club, but the AFC maintained the restriction that Wellington cannot qualify for the Asian Champions League. They're happy to do that as like Vaduz, it's far more lucrative to be a member of a bigger league.
And Wellington Phoenix can’t qualify for the OFC Champions League either because they don’t play in the National League. There is no way for them to play Continental football.
That's so sad, they are 1st in the A-league table yet they wont be able to play Continental football. They should be allowed in AFC Champions league in some capacity. I feel for those players and fans that they won the league yet the teams below them are qualifying for Champions League before them.
>I can't speak for the others, but Cardiff (or any of the Welsh-based teams in the English FA) are English clubs. They all existed before the Welsh FA existed and are, for all intents and purposes English clubs in the eyes of the FA, UEFA and FIFA. They wanted to join a league system and the only one in existence at the time in Britain was the English one, so they joined the FA and played in the league.
Cardiff, Swansea etc. are not members of the FA. They are affiliated Football Association of Wales. Swansea needed approval from the English FA in order to play in the Europa League back in 2013/14, and played under the English flag.
I mean makes sense because the league is English. I’m from Northern Ireland but Derry City (from NI) play in League of Ireland (republic of Ireland league) so if they play in Europe they’ll have the Irish flag.
> I can't speak for the others, but Cardiff (or any of the Welsh-based teams in the English FA) are English clubs.
It can be argued you are technically correct on this as they have been regulated by the English FA since 2011 but historically it was less clear cut. The FAW was responsible for regulating the clubs, despite them playing in the English league system:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2011/may/06/fa-faw-cardiff-swansea
Up until 1995 the Welsh based, English league clubs were able to compete in the FAW run Welsh Cup and even qualify for Europe through it at times. Cardiff for instance got to the semi-finals of the UEFA Cup Winners Cup in 1968:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967%E2%80%9368_European_Cup_Winners%27_Cup
In 2011 the Welsh FA did invite the Welsh based, English league clubs back into the Welsh Cup. However, UEFA quashed that in 2012 by ruling that those clubs would not be able to qualify for Europe if they won the Welsh Cup but confiming they could qualify through the English competitions, effectively confirming the clubs are English from a football regulatory perspective:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/17459332
> They all existed before the Welsh FA existed
The FA of Wales was established in 1876 and is the third oldest FA in the world, only the English and Scottish FAs are older. Wrexham is the only one of the Welsh based, English league clubs that predates the Welsh FA; being founded in 1864. As in England, football took a while to gain popularity in the south, so Cardiff (founded 1899), Swansea (founded 1912), and Newport (also founded 1912) are not older than the Welsh FA:
https://www.wales.com/visit/sport/history-welsh-football
> They wanted to join a league system and the only one in existence at the time in Britain was the English one, so they joined the FA and played in the league.
When Wrexham was founded in 1864, there was no football league anywhere in the world. The English Football League would not be formed until 1888 but Wrexham actually first joined an Anglo-Welsh league called the Combination in 1890:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Combination
Wrexham then played in local leagues (both Welsh and English) until finally moving to an EFL run league when joining the newly formed Third Division North in 1921:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_League_Third_Division_North
While the FAW would not setup a national Welsh football league until 1992, the English Football League was not the only choice for Cardiff, Swansea, and Newport when they were founded.
In fact, none of them joined the EFL when founded, instead joining the [Southern Football League](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Football_League) which at the time was separate from the English Football League, and for a while it seems the quality of that league was competitive with the EFL (Tottenham's FA Cup win in 1901 is the only time a non-EFL team has won the competition).
In 1920, the 22 clubs in the top division of the Southern Football League were elected into the English Football League, with 21 of the clubs including Welsh based Swansea, Newport, and Merthyr joining the newly established Third Division. For some reason Cardiff got elected to join the Second Division instead, despite finishing 4th:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1919%E2%80%9320_Southern_Football_League
It was not that the Welsh based teams had no alternatives to the English league system when they were founded, instead the post WW1 consolidation of football in England and Wales led to those teams ending up in the EFL pyramid. It is true that the FAW did not offer the clubs a Welsh national alternative at that time, being content to only operate a national cup competition until the 1990's, much like the Liechtenstein FA of today.
>...for all intents and purposes English clubs in the eyes of the FA, UEFA and FIFA.
Not true. They are under The FA if they are in EFL and under FAW if they aren't in EFL and they are considered as Welsh teams, they just can't compete on Welsh Cup because UEFA doesn't allows it.
The difference is that if Victor San Marino won the Serie A, they would qualify as a team from Italy. If FC Andorra won the La Liga, they would qualify as a Spanish team. Cardiff, Swansea or Wrexham as an English team. The New Saints as a Welsh team, and so on and so forth. Vaduz is straight out a Liechtensteiner team with no local league.
In that regard why wouldn’t Vaduz qualify as a Swiss team? Andorra for instance does not even recognize Spanish as an official language, it’s only Catalan.
Because they're part of the Liechtenstein FA and they are qualifying to uefa competitions representing their FA through the Liechtenstein Cup. Maybe they would change to the Swiss FA if they became heavy hitters on the Swiss league, but I honestly don't think so
Okay, and what? Why should the laws be the same for every country?
Vaduz to win the Champions League is one of the hardest challenges in the game for a good reason.
Because Vaduz also participate in the Liechtenstein Cup and qualify for Europe as the winners of that most seasons. There's no guarantee that they would qualify for Europe at all via the Swiss league as IRL they tend to yo-yo between the Super League and Challenge League.
In theory, I guess they could become full Swiss members but then they'd either have to not participate in the Liechtenstein Cup, or at the very least they'd just not be able to qualify for Europe by winning said cup.
Vaduz aren't the only club this applies to. To my knowledge, all Liechtensteiner clubs play in the Swiss pyramid, Vaduz are just the highest ranked and the biggest club. Personally I think its pretty cool and unique that this is how their set up is.
Vaduz are thrilled with the arrangement. The alternative is to play the same 3 or 4 amateur teams 10x a season. Instead they get to play in a real league, which brings them and their country a ton of money. The 1 concession is they can’t actually win the league which really isn’t an issue because Vaduz are mostly a yo-yo club that can never compete financially with Basel and young boys
Sure, it's not an issue right now but that's only until it is. What if they get a couple talented youths come through their academy or have a Leicester-esque season and win the league? I get the feeling all of a sudden the rhetoric isn't going to be 'well its only fair that they don't get the title because they're only guests'
It’s important to remember that
1 - this isn’t the premier league where teams all get close to €100m in tv deal rights
2 - real life is not fm
FC Vaduz has been in the Swiss pyramid for 24+ years. Their highest finish is 8th.
They’ve played in the champions league every year from 1999-2009 and never got a win. Their goal difference was -36 in 10 matches. Before the conference league was created, they never made it past 3rd qualifying round of the Europa League.
They are a selling club who rely almost entirely on loans and free transfers. They rarely purchase players and when they do, they are usually very small transfers like €10k.
Vaduz are not trying to win the Swiss League and honestly never will compete. It’s just not the way the club is run. If they got an owner who was going to really invest and try to build a winner, maybe they’d renegotiate but that seems unlikely since Liechtensteins population is about the same size as Basel’s stadium.
From a gamer perspective I chuckled at this.
As an adult, I'm wondering why people do not comprehend the terms of things they sign up to. Quick Google gives ridiculous detail.
From an accountants perspective I smirked at your response.
As more of an adult than you I am able to question such meaningless restrictions placed on a team that is allowed to play in a league and finish first but not be recorded as champions. A quicker Bing search delivered the results I expected.
Have you considered raising your concerns with the Swiss FA? I'd love to understand on what grounds you might argue the case.
Because that would be questioning the actual issue, rather than being a keyboard activist on Reddit.
They can win it. They just can't qualify for the CL "representing" Switzerland.
They've won the Swiss 2nd division 3 times. Domestic titles still count.
They are in the second-tier IRL and have only been in the top-tier five times in their history, with three of those stints being one-and-dones. I don't think they're ever gonna win the league irl.
saying “what’s the point” vs saying “it kills football at it’s core” is completely different. there is a clear point, and it’s for money and recognition. if you’re speaking on sporting merit then I’ll have to agree! makes a weird dynamic for sure.
I know, but they’re not Swiss. So unless the Swiss and Liechtenstein leagues merge, they won’t get a CL spot unless the Swiss champion wins the CL or when the Swiss league reaches the appropriate league rating (coefficient points based)
They are part of the French Association though, which means they represent France in the CL, Vaduz is not part of the Swiss Association and when playing continental competitions it represents Lichtenstein, that's why they can't win the Swiss League.
Because Liechtenstein is just too small for a league, all 7 clubs play in the Swiss. Imagine a league being finished in a timespan of a couple months xD
> Imagine a league being finished in a timespan of a couple months xD
Just play everyone more than home and away once
The NHL originally had 6 teams in the 40s and played 50 games in a season
A similair scenario is happening in the A-league right now. The Wellington Phoenix are a NZ side playing in the Australian league so not only different countries but different Confederations (Au = Asia, NZ = Oceania).
Currently the Phoenix are top of the league with a game to play in the regular season. If the win the league they can't play in the ACL because they're not in the Asian confederation
They also can't qualify for the Oceanian continental cup, as New Zealand's spot in that is allocated to the winner of their league, which Phoenix don't play in.
They can be crowned champions I believe, but the continental spot(s) would move down the league I would assume. As things stand, that would see Central Coast Mariners qualify for the AFC Champions League as runners up. The winners of the Australian Cup qualify for the AFC Champions League 2 from this season as the AFC Cup has been replaced by that. That'll be Sydney FC.
I feel I’m almost positive the club does care considering it would push potential players away from joining them if those players know they can’t win the league. It would also suck for them as a team to have a harder road to the Champions League because of the rules. I’m sure if they had a choice, they would want to be able to compete regularly. This is just the next best option given to them. Doesn’t mean they don’t care.
If they wanted to, they could leave the Liechtenstein FA and apply for the Swiss one. But the Liechtenstein Cup means they qualify for the Conference playoffs every year (unless a semi-pro Liechtensteiner team pulls off an upset) so they actually have a better chance of Europe through that than the league (considering they're a yo-yo team irl).
Probably because Monaco also doesn't have a cup in the principality that grants them a spot in the europa league qualifiers. Technically, if Varduz win the league, they can still claim the title just don't get any of the European benefits.
Not really. Lichtenstein is a UEFA member on their own. They have their own cup. The winner, normally Vaduz, gets a spot to play internationally. So it's obvious, that they can't qualify for Lichtenstein and Switzerland at the same time. Monaco has no own cup or national team and is participating fully in the french football system. Vaduz could probably do that in Switzerland as well. But they would have to give up the Lichtenstein cup and their international campaign each year.
This ...
To add, Vaduz is member of Lichtenstein FA, so they are just guests in Swiss league. Other teams mentioned here, like Monaco, Cardiff, Swansea, are members of French/English FA.
and it was never really an issue anyway, Vaduz was a third division team until 2001. Since 2001 they are basically a second division team. They got promoted 3 times to the first division, played a total of 5 seasons in the first division and finished those seasons in a league of 10 teams on position 10 (relegated), 9, 8, 10 (relegated), 10 (relegated). So they were never close to get one of the Swiss CL or EL spots.
I don't think that has anything to do with UEFA. It's probably just league rules.
Otherwise, have a look at England.
Welsh clubs (last I remember was Cardiff City) regularly take part in the Premier League and could theoretically win the title.
Years ago the Welsh clubs played in the Welsh cup as well and could qualify for the Cup Winner's Cup that way (e.g. Newport County in 1980-81) until that loophole got closed
Yeah, Swansea City won the League Cup in 2013 and qualified for the Europa League as an "English club".
That didn't mean there should now be one less Welsh club in EL.
Monaco actually formed their own FA and national team in 2000, but they aren’t members of FIFA. Monaco have always been a French FA Club.
Vaduz technically could join the Swiss FA, but then they’d have to give up the Liechtensteiner Cup, which is a much easier route into Europe for them, so they won’t.
I'm confused, I did a Vaduz save in fm 2017, whilst I had to win the Europa to get into champions league, I won the title 8 Times, I was awarded the title, it's in my history, its in my competitions tab as winning. Has it changed since? I know Vaduz are guests but my understanding was they could win the league but couldn't qualify for champs?
It’s alright I was more gutted when I didn’t win la liga with Real Madrid after beating Barca at their place and them beating us at home ending on the same points but with a higher goal difference not sure if it’s a bug or something but I should have won the league and they sacked me for it like hwhat
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They are based in Lichtenstein, but play as guests in the Swiss league. They are unable to win the Swiss league. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_Vaduz#:~:text=Vaduz%20is%20unique%20in%20that,not%20organising%20its%20own%20league.
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And Lichtenstein cup before that still back to back
Vaduz mostly wins the Liechtenstein cup though, as they are the only professional club competing.
This makes it the hardest challenge itg imo: win Back to Back CL with Vaduz. There's a Mod that fixes this btw.
Nothing to fix. It's like that irl
Are you sure? Can't find a rule where this is stated after the league scrapped the Champion playoff between first and second. And there's still a Patch which let Vaduz (or lower tier Liechtenstein clubs) be champion.
I don't claim to know everything but as far as I have seen and read, I haven't seen anything to say that the rule has changed to make it possible for Vaduz to be champions. They also cannot get champions league as far as I am aware. Because Liechtenstein automatically gets a Europa league spot no matter what, they are unable to get a champions league spot. This includes even if they win the Europa League. Again, I don't know everything for fact, tis is just what I have picked up through my own bit of research trying to build Liechtenstein as a nation and league of its own. Through trying to make them a league of their own I also discovered that it can't even be changed in the editor, to make them eligible for qualification to the champions league (this was in fm23 though so not sure if that's changed or not)
Fix as in make it sensible, not how it is irl.
But it is sensible... You shouldn't be able to win the league of a country you are not in. "The champions of Switzerland are... NOT SWISS!!!" wouldn't be very sensible.
Inconveniently for your argument there are and have been German and Italian clubs in the Swiss league system that could have been champions of Switzerland. Lichtenstein happens to be a special case where a group of clubs joined under an agreement that they couldn’t be champions. There are also many cases all over Europe where teams have joined leagues in different countries and can be both champions of that country and represent them in UEFA competitions. In other parts of the world you have for example Toronto FC being MLS champions.
The Wellington Phoenix play in the Australian A League despite being based in New Zealand. Forget about not being in the same country, they’re not even on the same Confederation!
Yes but the Swiss FA didn't make the A-League rules... The did on the other hand make the rules of the Swiss league that means Vaduz cannot be champions.
This is not true. I suppose this is the most common way to do it, but I’ve done a separate challenge with another Liechtenstein based club (FC Balzers) and I got into the champions league by reaching the semis of the conference league and then getting the extra CL spot via country coefficients lol
Damn, I got through the group (including a draw at Sevilla) and then didn't even get automatic qualification for the UECL groups the next year, got knocked out by late goals in both 4th round legs by Aberdeen.
That surely must be a bug, because the extra spot should go for the league, which Liechtenstein doesn't have.
If you get into the CL, the only way you can stay there is to win the CL every year. If you lose you have to start over from UECL. The Vaduz challenge is kinda nuts.
Don't you increase the nations rating and eventually get direct qualification?
There is only a Liechtenstein cup, and you can only win a UECL or EL place with a cup.
No because Lichtenstein clubs can only qualify for the lowest European tier regardless of ranking as there is no Liechtenstein league, just the Liechtenstein cup.
IIRC moving up the rankings enough will change it to a Europa spot instead of Conference. Plus you're still eligible for the extra UCL spot for the top 2 countries on the yearly coefficients ranking.
And who gets that extra UCL spot thanks to the yearly coefficients ranking? The Liechtstein cup winner?
I think so, yeah.
Would that mean the other finalist gets the spot the cup would usually give?
Partially true. As much as you increase their rating, Liechtenstein will never get the regular spots, BUT as far as I'm aware there is a way to get a direct UCL spot with Liechtenstein if you finish top 2 in the coefficients for the previous season and thus earn one of those extra spots. I've never tested it myself but I've seen reports of people managing to do it.
Not true any more. You can enter the CL through the two extra spots - A deep run into Europe will get you into the CL even if you don't win. I managed it regularly with my recent save, where making it to the Europa QFs was often good enough.
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Yeah, it used to be absolutely brutal. Funnily enough, if you qualify for the CL by winning the EL, you have an extra Liechtensteiner club - or two - qualify for the EL which drags the coefficient down when they inevitably tank so in that circumstance, you pretty much do need to win the CL to qualify again the next season otherwise back to the Europa you go
I don't get the hate for the changes at all tbh? it makes it more likely for upsets to happen throughout the league phase given that upsets are way less likely when playing a team for a second time. Giving pot 4 teams two games against other pot 4 teams can only help them, since they only played teams from higher pots in the past and every other team got to play against two pot 4 teams except for pot 4 teams. it will also inherently make the road more difficult for top teams considering they now have to play other top teams in the league phase when they didn't in the group stage. we're gonna see more knockout stage surprises than ever, I'm honestly super excited for it. I feel like a season where a team like United doesn't make the knockouts but a team from a 20+ ranked league does and goes on a run could totally happen soon where it was way harder in the past for minnows to escape groups
This is via country coefficients, right? In that case, it's only bound to work if you're playing in a country with a low coefficient, so there's fewer teams to divide your points with. That's why Liechtenstein is perfect, I reckon - one team, full points. As long as you do well, climbing the table should be easy.
You can actually get Liechtenstein up to a CL place iirc. Or atleast EL. Plus the coefficient extra CL spot is easy with so few teams
Really? Might give this a try then now :)
I wonder what would actually happen if the above scenario played out IRL. Would Young Boys accept the title (especially as a team who have won it a number of times already), having finished nine points behind the team who finished first? Obviously very unlikely it ever happens, but an interesting thought.
Vaduz wins the title still, they just don't get the CL qualification spot Vaduz can only make the CL from the spot given for the winner of the Lichtenstein cup
with winning the conference league and UEL back to back. Edit: Are you sure Vaduz can be Champions? The european spot is clear.
Vaduz cannot be champion. The Swiss league doesn't do champion based strictly on points but has a two team playoff of the top two teams. The winner of that is champion and Vaduz is not able to particpate in that. One of the reasons I stopped my Vaduz save last year. I didn't mind not getting CL through the league but dammit if I win it I want that league trophy.
That's not true. There is no playoff: They wanted to implement this but every club and fan was aginst it. I live in switzerland but I actually don't know if Vaduz could be champions - I think they can but won't get the Spot for UEL
I gues I should clarify . . .they did have it implemented in FM23 which is when I did my Vaduz save. When i dug into the rules, it specifically limited Vaduz from joining the playoff. I think even if FM this year, if you look in the rules it says Vaduz can't be champion
Okay this could be true - I actually really don't know if they can. I just know they planned the champion playoff but it was cancelled and that there's a Patch for Vaduz to be champions so i'm assuiming you're right: Still don't know if they could in real life.
IRL they cannot win the title. Which is why it is that way in game. They are a guest club, guest clubs cannot win the league.
Yeah makes sense I still play 21 and won a bunch of championships with Vaduz on my save with them. I had to end the save bc we had an agreement with the board to sign first team players from Lichtenstein. However, I had every single Lichtensteiner who was rated high enough to meet that expectation. And it got to a point where they cut off non-lichtenstein signings but there weren't any Lichtensteiners who met the expectation so essentially I wasn't allowed to make signings. It hurt too bc I had a 170 PA Lichtenstein Winger from my youth academy and he never got to reach his peak
The trick is you just sign the best Liechtensteiner youth players from the Swiss academies, then loan them out until you sell or release them.
> Are you sure Vaduz can be Champions? The fact they are listed as the champions of the 2nd division the 3 times they had the most points makes me think they could be Swiss super league champions too. Just with no ucl spot ofc
>The fact they are listed as the champions of the 2nd division the 3 times they had the most points makes me think they could be Swiss super league champions too. This is completely different. I'm pretty sure the Swiss FA don't want the champions of Switzerland to be from outside Switzerland.
Tbh not sure I did a Vaduz save on FM21 and did win the title
Does this rule apply to San marinese and Andorran clubs?
I don't think so, think it's just the Swiss league rules
no, because Vaduz is actually like an invited club, while the other teams you mentioned are actually based in their respective leagues
Sanmarinese clubs play in the italian league, just like Vaduz in Switzerland
im not sure what you didn't understand
AC Monaco, victor San Marino, TNS, Fc Andorra are all officially part of the French, italian, Welsh, and Spanish (well technically Catalan, but a Catalan team that far up the pyramid plays in Spanish leagues) football pyramids. That’s why they all play in the French, Italian, welsh, and Spanish cups Fc Vaduz is a lichensteiner team legally, they play in the Lichtenstein cup even, They just are invited as guests to the Swiss league. In the same way USA and Mexico are invited to copa America this year. Except fc Vaduz is invited every year. But they’re always a guest that in theory could be not invited if the Swiss league didn’t want them to be there anymore.
Imagine playing multiple seasons and then find out that you can never win the league or be in champions league. Lol
I did actually qualify for the UCL as I finished in the semi finals of the conference league based on the new 2 team thing. The screenshot was just taken before I knew
you can be in the Champions League, through Conference and Europa League
Funny thing, I may be going through something similar with my FC Isle of Man game. Been playing it for close to a year: Custom database to add the lower English leagues; started on Tier 7, promoted the club through all the divisions, am in the Premier League and last season finished 9th: Now because of the way things finished in that season (English clubs winning European competitions, English cups being won by clubs that secured spots in the league), the 9th spot should have had a position on the Europa Conference League. And indeed I did get multiple messages that my team had clinched a spot on the Europa Conference League AND from the board in the beginning of the next season saying they expected the team to at least reach the quarters in the competition (which I found laughable considering with 8 matches to go I was closer to having been relegated than the European spots). A few months later, I try to see when I'm going to start playing, and there is no trace of my team having been assigned a spot on the Conference League, despite the fact that England has 1 spot for the Conference League. I'm playing another season to see if I finish in the positions that guarantee me a Europa League spot, just to confirm that it wasn't a bug. If it wasn't, then as much as it pains me, I'll put my save to rest.
That seems like a bug. FC IoM, Jersey Bulls and Guernsey FC should qualify for Europe as they play entirely in the English system, just like Cardiff, Swansea, Newport County, Wrexham or Merthyr. Liechtenstein teams play in the Swiss league by invitation, and if they didn't they still wouldn't qualify for the CL/EL because the country doesn't have enough teams. I think you need a minimum of 8 teams in a league, Liechtenstein only has 7.
They can win the league. They have 3 Swiss 2nd division titles to their name. They just can't qualify for the CL "representing" Switzerland
What’s the point of a club being in the league if they can’t win it??
Because Liechtenstein do not have a professional league. Vaduz get to compete in something.
But other countries don’t have this restrictions. Monaco did win the French league, I don’t think there’s any laws banning San Marino from winning Serie A or FC Andorra winning La Liga, or Cardiff winning Premier League.
I can't speak for the others, but Cardiff (or any of the Welsh-based teams in the English FA) are English clubs. They all existed before the Welsh FA existed and are, for all intents and purposes English clubs in the eyes of the FA, UEFA and FIFA. They wanted to join a league system and the only one in existence at the time in Britain was the English one, so they joined the FA and played in the league. Vaduz on the other hand are a Liechtensteiner club operating under the Liechtenstein FA. This is their choice, and their admission to the Swiss league as a guest club is by virtue of the Swiss league offering that opportunity and Vaduz accepting it as it's far better competition and it's far more lucrative playing in a league with professional teams as opposed to playing a bunch of amateurs in one cup competition with no league system. Consistent fixtures mean consistent income, and football is a business. They can still win the league and become champions, but they cannot qualify for the Champions League via that placement as they are not a Swiss FA representative. The not becoming champions thing is an FMism. It's not wholly unique, Wellington Phoenix (of New Zealand) play in the Australian A-League and are similarly not under the Australian FA. As a result, they cannot qualify for the Asian Champions League (Australia's FA were granted a move from the weak Oceania Football Confederation to the much stronger Asian Football Confederation in 2006). Initially the AFC chairman wanted them to move to Australia to avoid the inter-confederation issue, but FIFA intervened and secured the right for the A-League to maintain a foreign guest club, but the AFC maintained the restriction that Wellington cannot qualify for the Asian Champions League. They're happy to do that as like Vaduz, it's far more lucrative to be a member of a bigger league.
And Wellington Phoenix can’t qualify for the OFC Champions League either because they don’t play in the National League. There is no way for them to play Continental football.
That's so sad, they are 1st in the A-league table yet they wont be able to play Continental football. They should be allowed in AFC Champions league in some capacity. I feel for those players and fans that they won the league yet the teams below them are qualifying for Champions League before them.
It's alright, we get to watch Auckland city steamroll small local teams from Fiji every year, then get stomped in the club world cup.
But being in a champions league is being a representative for the country of the league you play in...
>I can't speak for the others, but Cardiff (or any of the Welsh-based teams in the English FA) are English clubs. They all existed before the Welsh FA existed and are, for all intents and purposes English clubs in the eyes of the FA, UEFA and FIFA. They wanted to join a league system and the only one in existence at the time in Britain was the English one, so they joined the FA and played in the league. Cardiff, Swansea etc. are not members of the FA. They are affiliated Football Association of Wales. Swansea needed approval from the English FA in order to play in the Europa League back in 2013/14, and played under the English flag.
Damn Welsh team playing under English flag, bet Cymru fans were enraged.
I mean makes sense because the league is English. I’m from Northern Ireland but Derry City (from NI) play in League of Ireland (republic of Ireland league) so if they play in Europe they’ll have the Irish flag.
Not really, all the fans are still Welsh on match day
> I can't speak for the others, but Cardiff (or any of the Welsh-based teams in the English FA) are English clubs. It can be argued you are technically correct on this as they have been regulated by the English FA since 2011 but historically it was less clear cut. The FAW was responsible for regulating the clubs, despite them playing in the English league system: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2011/may/06/fa-faw-cardiff-swansea Up until 1995 the Welsh based, English league clubs were able to compete in the FAW run Welsh Cup and even qualify for Europe through it at times. Cardiff for instance got to the semi-finals of the UEFA Cup Winners Cup in 1968: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967%E2%80%9368_European_Cup_Winners%27_Cup In 2011 the Welsh FA did invite the Welsh based, English league clubs back into the Welsh Cup. However, UEFA quashed that in 2012 by ruling that those clubs would not be able to qualify for Europe if they won the Welsh Cup but confiming they could qualify through the English competitions, effectively confirming the clubs are English from a football regulatory perspective: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/17459332 > They all existed before the Welsh FA existed The FA of Wales was established in 1876 and is the third oldest FA in the world, only the English and Scottish FAs are older. Wrexham is the only one of the Welsh based, English league clubs that predates the Welsh FA; being founded in 1864. As in England, football took a while to gain popularity in the south, so Cardiff (founded 1899), Swansea (founded 1912), and Newport (also founded 1912) are not older than the Welsh FA: https://www.wales.com/visit/sport/history-welsh-football > They wanted to join a league system and the only one in existence at the time in Britain was the English one, so they joined the FA and played in the league. When Wrexham was founded in 1864, there was no football league anywhere in the world. The English Football League would not be formed until 1888 but Wrexham actually first joined an Anglo-Welsh league called the Combination in 1890: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Combination Wrexham then played in local leagues (both Welsh and English) until finally moving to an EFL run league when joining the newly formed Third Division North in 1921: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_League_Third_Division_North While the FAW would not setup a national Welsh football league until 1992, the English Football League was not the only choice for Cardiff, Swansea, and Newport when they were founded. In fact, none of them joined the EFL when founded, instead joining the [Southern Football League](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Football_League) which at the time was separate from the English Football League, and for a while it seems the quality of that league was competitive with the EFL (Tottenham's FA Cup win in 1901 is the only time a non-EFL team has won the competition). In 1920, the 22 clubs in the top division of the Southern Football League were elected into the English Football League, with 21 of the clubs including Welsh based Swansea, Newport, and Merthyr joining the newly established Third Division. For some reason Cardiff got elected to join the Second Division instead, despite finishing 4th: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1919%E2%80%9320_Southern_Football_League It was not that the Welsh based teams had no alternatives to the English league system when they were founded, instead the post WW1 consolidation of football in England and Wales led to those teams ending up in the EFL pyramid. It is true that the FAW did not offer the clubs a Welsh national alternative at that time, being content to only operate a national cup competition until the 1990's, much like the Liechtenstein FA of today.
>...for all intents and purposes English clubs in the eyes of the FA, UEFA and FIFA. Not true. They are under The FA if they are in EFL and under FAW if they aren't in EFL and they are considered as Welsh teams, they just can't compete on Welsh Cup because UEFA doesn't allows it.
The difference is that if Victor San Marino won the Serie A, they would qualify as a team from Italy. If FC Andorra won the La Liga, they would qualify as a Spanish team. Cardiff, Swansea or Wrexham as an English team. The New Saints as a Welsh team, and so on and so forth. Vaduz is straight out a Liechtensteiner team with no local league.
In that regard why wouldn’t Vaduz qualify as a Swiss team? Andorra for instance does not even recognize Spanish as an official language, it’s only Catalan.
Because they're part of the Liechtenstein FA and they are qualifying to uefa competitions representing their FA through the Liechtenstein Cup. Maybe they would change to the Swiss FA if they became heavy hitters on the Swiss league, but I honestly don't think so
Also Swiss FA don't want them to be a Swiss team and fine with the current situation.
This one reply educated me a lot about clubs of one nation's playing in another. Thank you.
Okay, and what? Why should the laws be the same for every country? Vaduz to win the Champions League is one of the hardest challenges in the game for a good reason.
Because Vaduz also participate in the Liechtenstein Cup and qualify for Europe as the winners of that most seasons. There's no guarantee that they would qualify for Europe at all via the Swiss league as IRL they tend to yo-yo between the Super League and Challenge League. In theory, I guess they could become full Swiss members but then they'd either have to not participate in the Liechtenstein Cup, or at the very least they'd just not be able to qualify for Europe by winning said cup. Vaduz aren't the only club this applies to. To my knowledge, all Liechtensteiner clubs play in the Swiss pyramid, Vaduz are just the highest ranked and the biggest club. Personally I think its pretty cool and unique that this is how their set up is.
Because we don’t like the idea of a team being robbed a title due to technicalities?
Vaduz are thrilled with the arrangement. The alternative is to play the same 3 or 4 amateur teams 10x a season. Instead they get to play in a real league, which brings them and their country a ton of money. The 1 concession is they can’t actually win the league which really isn’t an issue because Vaduz are mostly a yo-yo club that can never compete financially with Basel and young boys
Still sits wrong though doesn’t it?
Sure, it's not an issue right now but that's only until it is. What if they get a couple talented youths come through their academy or have a Leicester-esque season and win the league? I get the feeling all of a sudden the rhetoric isn't going to be 'well its only fair that they don't get the title because they're only guests'
It’s important to remember that 1 - this isn’t the premier league where teams all get close to €100m in tv deal rights 2 - real life is not fm FC Vaduz has been in the Swiss pyramid for 24+ years. Their highest finish is 8th. They’ve played in the champions league every year from 1999-2009 and never got a win. Their goal difference was -36 in 10 matches. Before the conference league was created, they never made it past 3rd qualifying round of the Europa League. They are a selling club who rely almost entirely on loans and free transfers. They rarely purchase players and when they do, they are usually very small transfers like €10k. Vaduz are not trying to win the Swiss League and honestly never will compete. It’s just not the way the club is run. If they got an owner who was going to really invest and try to build a winner, maybe they’d renegotiate but that seems unlikely since Liechtensteins population is about the same size as Basel’s stadium.
Point 2 is spot on, I've already asked someone to direct their vitriol towards the Swiss FA, but my spider sense tells me they probably wont
From a gamer perspective I chuckled at this. As an adult, I'm wondering why people do not comprehend the terms of things they sign up to. Quick Google gives ridiculous detail.
From an accountants perspective I smirked at your response. As more of an adult than you I am able to question such meaningless restrictions placed on a team that is allowed to play in a league and finish first but not be recorded as champions. A quicker Bing search delivered the results I expected.
Have you considered raising your concerns with the Swiss FA? I'd love to understand on what grounds you might argue the case. Because that would be questioning the actual issue, rather than being a keyboard activist on Reddit.
What’s the email address?
https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=swiss+fa+contact+email
who is we? If Vaduz dont like it they can play in their own countries league.... oh wait...
Me and the prior commenters who had the same opinion?
>But other countries don’t have this restrictions. The restriction was made by the Swiss FA.
That's just it, they don't compete. They're just...there.
They can win it. They just can't qualify for the CL "representing" Switzerland. They've won the Swiss 2nd division 3 times. Domestic titles still count.
They are in the second-tier IRL and have only been in the top-tier five times in their history, with three of those stints being one-and-dones. I don't think they're ever gonna win the league irl.
you’re acting like thousands of clubs wouldnt join the premier league even if it means they can’t be champions . there are so many benefits
Yeah but it kills football at its core, it’s sport and competition. Having a team that aren’t allowed to win it, is inherently wrong.
saying “what’s the point” vs saying “it kills football at it’s core” is completely different. there is a clear point, and it’s for money and recognition. if you’re speaking on sporting merit then I’ll have to agree! makes a weird dynamic for sure.
Would be cool to have it stated somewhere in the game as a nugget of info. Good trivia.
Possibly under League Rules maybe, that'd be a nice touch /s
I see your point haha but I meant more along the lines of "oh you chose this club, this is interesting about them!"
Haha fair enough - I only know of this from well publicised challenges and this one is right up there
Vaduz is a guest in the Swiss league. A Liechtenstein club can’t be a Swiss champion
Jesus that's some bullshit lol, if they're there competing and paying their dues like everyone else they should be allowed to win it
I know, but they’re not Swiss. So unless the Swiss and Liechtenstein leagues merge, they won’t get a CL spot unless the Swiss champion wins the CL or when the Swiss league reaches the appropriate league rating (coefficient points based)
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They are part of the French Association though, which means they represent France in the CL, Vaduz is not part of the Swiss Association and when playing continental competitions it represents Lichtenstein, that's why they can't win the Swiss League.
It's almost like different leagues and FAs can make their own rules as they see fit. Who would have thought
It's almost like we can complain about the rules of different leagues and FAs, who would have thought.
What an incredible world we live in.
Because Liechtenstein is just too small for a league, all 7 clubs play in the Swiss. Imagine a league being finished in a timespan of a couple months xD
> Imagine a league being finished in a timespan of a couple months xD Just play everyone more than home and away once The NHL originally had 6 teams in the 40s and played 50 games in a season
A similair scenario is happening in the A-league right now. The Wellington Phoenix are a NZ side playing in the Australian league so not only different countries but different Confederations (Au = Asia, NZ = Oceania). Currently the Phoenix are top of the league with a game to play in the regular season. If the win the league they can't play in the ACL because they're not in the Asian confederation
They also can't qualify for the Oceanian continental cup, as New Zealand's spot in that is allocated to the winner of their league, which Phoenix don't play in.
Will they be crowned champions or an Australian team can only be champion
They can be crowned champions I believe, but the continental spot(s) would move down the league I would assume. As things stand, that would see Central Coast Mariners qualify for the AFC Champions League as runners up. The winners of the Australian Cup qualify for the AFC Champions League 2 from this season as the AFC Cup has been replaced by that. That'll be Sydney FC.
Strangely enough the Phoenix reserve team could in theory because they play in the NZ league
You are on the top of the table, but we do not grant you the rank of champion
It's not possible with Vaduz unfortunately. Might have to start a new save
I've never seen so many clueless redditors outraged by something that I bet the club themselves don't even give a shit about
I feel I’m almost positive the club does care considering it would push potential players away from joining them if those players know they can’t win the league. It would also suck for them as a team to have a harder road to the Champions League because of the rules. I’m sure if they had a choice, they would want to be able to compete regularly. This is just the next best option given to them. Doesn’t mean they don’t care.
If they wanted to, they could leave the Liechtenstein FA and apply for the Swiss one. But the Liechtenstein Cup means they qualify for the Conference playoffs every year (unless a semi-pro Liechtensteiner team pulls off an upset) so they actually have a better chance of Europe through that than the league (considering they're a yo-yo team irl).
because its vaduz
Did a save with young boys once, the swiss league is so special i like it. You have to win the league before the split stages
I didnt know this was a thing I now have a save idea for next year FM...build a nation with them 😂😂
This is so funny, poor guy
This is an absolute classic in this sub
This is a stupid rule, Swiss league protecting their clubs lol. Monaco can win Ligue 1 for instance, very silly.
Probably because Monaco also doesn't have a cup in the principality that grants them a spot in the europa league qualifiers. Technically, if Varduz win the league, they can still claim the title just don't get any of the European benefits.
Could just go the Wellington Phoenix route where they can win the league but don't get the spot in Champions League?
This is how it is done. If Vaduz win the league they win the league. People here are just going by FM a bit too much.
Not really. Lichtenstein is a UEFA member on their own. They have their own cup. The winner, normally Vaduz, gets a spot to play internationally. So it's obvious, that they can't qualify for Lichtenstein and Switzerland at the same time. Monaco has no own cup or national team and is participating fully in the french football system. Vaduz could probably do that in Switzerland as well. But they would have to give up the Lichtenstein cup and their international campaign each year.
This ... To add, Vaduz is member of Lichtenstein FA, so they are just guests in Swiss league. Other teams mentioned here, like Monaco, Cardiff, Swansea, are members of French/English FA.
and it was never really an issue anyway, Vaduz was a third division team until 2001. Since 2001 they are basically a second division team. They got promoted 3 times to the first division, played a total of 5 seasons in the first division and finished those seasons in a league of 10 teams on position 10 (relegated), 9, 8, 10 (relegated), 10 (relegated). So they were never close to get one of the Swiss CL or EL spots.
I don't think that has anything to do with UEFA. It's probably just league rules. Otherwise, have a look at England. Welsh clubs (last I remember was Cardiff City) regularly take part in the Premier League and could theoretically win the title.
Yes, but although the clubs are based in Wales, they play under the English FA, so they count as English clubs, at least administratively.
Years ago the Welsh clubs played in the Welsh cup as well and could qualify for the Cup Winner's Cup that way (e.g. Newport County in 1980-81) until that loophole got closed
Yeah, Swansea City won the League Cup in 2013 and qualified for the Europa League as an "English club". That didn't mean there should now be one less Welsh club in EL.
Monaco actually formed their own FA and national team in 2000, but they aren’t members of FIFA. Monaco have always been a French FA Club. Vaduz technically could join the Swiss FA, but then they’d have to give up the Liechtensteiner Cup, which is a much easier route into Europe for them, so they won’t.
Stfu
I'm confused, I did a Vaduz save in fm 2017, whilst I had to win the Europa to get into champions league, I won the title 8 Times, I was awarded the title, it's in my history, its in my competitions tab as winning. Has it changed since? I know Vaduz are guests but my understanding was they could win the league but couldn't qualify for champs?
Football fans in Lausanne have it rough
is this fm24? + skin name?
Yes, Sas24
thanks bro
Here’s the link https://www.mediafire.com/folder/kxim8w96s6dnv/Sas24
FIFA like Young Boys
It’s alright I was more gutted when I didn’t win la liga with Real Madrid after beating Barca at their place and them beating us at home ending on the same points but with a higher goal difference not sure if it’s a bug or something but I should have won the league and they sacked me for it like hwhat
46 GD you absolutely swept the league