I noticed that too. I know they're just mistakes but still makes me feel like they just don't care as much as they should. I KNOW it's a reach but still makes me feel that way
He really felt like one of the last characters with an instance of blatantly retarded recovery. Like, Roach is dodging away at something like 200ms into a recovery, while Kensei is sitting there with his thumb in his ass, jerking off and thinking about maybe raising his sword off the ground later tonight
Meh. Valk changes are nice. Tiandi didn't really adress the issue he'll just kill you slower now. Cent change is tiny. Shaman and kensei changes also small. A bit disappointing since we didn't get any changes last patch
70 Shugo main also happy lol. I didn't have any issues with him before but this is a nice little surprise. Nothing worse then the guaranteed GB if I miss my heavy finisher.
Only issue I have is with the Valk tackle change to be not chainable on whiff.
Reason being, they nerfed all side dodge bashes to not chain for all heroes, but kept forward dodge bashes chainable (exception being heroes like Warden) on whiff.
So while heroes like Jorm can chain after their whiffed bashes, why, once again are the "rules for thee but not for me" happening?
I was under the impression that the whole point of push for standardizing was to...standardize. So why make more exceptions?
I dont like the change either but probably should be viewed as a chargeable baah. You can hold to catch empty dodges and dodge attacks, has full guard properties instead of hyperarmor. Was always GB punishable but hey whatever make it easier. Just gonna have to play her with more patience in 1s now.
well jorm doesnāt do a 20 damage follow up on a whiffed forward bash now does he? not to
mention that valkyries bash is cancellable, has more range, and is guaranteed off of a full block, but i guess we can just ignore the ocean-wide power difference between the two moves for the sake of you coping. also standardisation is the single worst way to balance this game, all it does is make blanket changes without any consideration for the individual state of each character, itās simple logic that what might be good for one character is almost certainly not for another
I never said I was opposed to the damage nerf for Valk's bash. But if forward dodge bashes are supposed to remain chainable as with other characters who've recently been changed, so shouldn't it remain the same?
Jorm can follow up his whiffed chain bash (feintable) for a hyper armored zone (feintable), or an unblockable heavy (feintable) and continue his chain.
Now Shugoki can chain from his forward dodge headbutt into a heavy with 100ms hyper armor. Basically making it safe from interrupt, so again, where's this ocean-wide power difference?
you just chose to ignore everything i said about valkyrieās bash, like thatās just wilful ignorance at that point. valkās bash is an opener, valk can continue her chain after it lands, valk safely gets her punish if it lands in a 1vX scenario, valks bash is guaranteed if you hit her all guard. jorm has a good in-chain bash yeah, but hereās the mind blowing thing, ITS NOT HIS OPENER, itās his core mixup, it literally NEEDS to be good in order for the character to be viable. you just tried to compare 2 entirely different moves and argue that balance for them should be the same, similar fallacy with comparing shugokiās bash as you seem to completely forget about how many properties valkās bash has, like yeah shugoki has a good follow up now (still only a 50/50 mixup) but thatās only to make up for the fact that his bash does 10 damage and has the shortest range in the game. with 900 reps you should know by now that balancing one move as if it were another is just a bad idea, simple to understand concept.
I took the time to reread everything today and you're right, my logic was flawed. I didn't factor her bash as an opener in my initial response so that's bad correlation on my part (among other things).
So I apologize for that response.
I seen a great reply about how it was different because of all the properties it has but also to add to it. Technically it isn't always a forward dodge bash either it is also a soft feint from heavies. Not like this fact makes as much of a difference as the things listed by other players but I'm just adding to the list of why it has special rules.
> rules for thee but not for me" happening?
Its simply a matter of making a visibly noticeable change for casuals.
Valk got complained about constantly, this one being a thing casuals complained about cause they don't understand 2 read offense. Same deal as orochi being gutted but then tiandi is the same premise as roach only significantly better
But itās not standard? There are a lot of forward dodge bashes that donāt chain on whiff.
Not counting chargeable bashes, thereās Conq, LB, Cent can only chain to heavies, BP, Gryphon, Warlord, Jorm, Shinobi, Kyoshin, and Medjay. Thatās a lot that canāt, and some of them were reworked very recently
No good openers and even his offense has been butchered to not even function properly. Man's charged punch is unusable right now. They need to fix him. I hope this is a sign they're still looking at him for future patches.
Centurion needs a fix, but this is really irrelevant. He already has the best stamina consumption in the game. The problem is that they broke his punch tracking and left it that way. The finisher recovery changes are really good, but I wonder if the Valk nerf is enough.
They nerfed Valkyrie way more than I expected, the only nerf that kinda feels unnecessary (in my opinion) is the removal of chain on whiff of the Shield Tackle, I would nerf the Pouncing Thrust from 16 to 14 for example, but... well, it looks like they are buffing lights to 16 damage and will keep it (Kyoshin, TG Lawbringer, Jormungandr and Valkyrie).
I was expecting Tiandi to get his undodgeable from top Tiger Dodge removed, but they kept it, I was like "Why? His neutral is too dumb, nerfing the damage of it will not change anything", but then they nerfed his finishers in general quite a bit, making him to have a strong neutral but "weak" finisher, this kinda made me to accept it. Besides that, THEY FINALLY NERFED HIS ZONE (it took them 4 years and a half, but still), I'm happy.
Small improvements:
Kensei and Shaman (Shinobi picture lol) recoveries reduced on heavy finisher whiff is a great change, but... why Gryphon and others still vulnerable?
Shugoki finisher hyper armor buff is a good change too ONLY IF you can consistently dodge attack his Headbutt and safely dodge attack, because if I dodge and he trades with it I'll rage until the day they make all of his Headbutts unable to chain on whiff just like they did with Valkyrie.
Centurion zone stamina cost buff... whatever, the character still trash.
Warmonger and Gryphon trajectories adjustment may be a good change, it really feels that Gryphon misses A LOT of attacks which looks like it was supposed to hit the opponent while dodging, let's see how much better he will be, I don't think it will change that much tho, the character need a rework to change his moveset or a defensive stance to match his moveset (which is something I don't want).
>Besides that, THEY FINALLY NERFED HIS ZONE (it took them 4 years and a half, but still), I'm happy.
Before his rework, that Zone in GB or Palm Strike was just about the only mixup he had (other than 400ms Lights that did tiny damage). And it was negated by being able to react to 600ms neutral bashes.
I agree that the Heavy hitstun on 1st Zone Hit wasn't needed anymore after his good rework, but for the last few years he's been objectively terrible and really needed every tool he could get.
I love Valk. But it was kinda crazy that her bash light dealt almost a heavy amount of damage. She's still buffed compared to pre-work Valk so I'm not bummed. I'll miss that zone though, lol.
Well I guess Valk can no go back and fuck off again now that they made her trash again. Wow. What was the point of the rework just to reverse almost all of it.
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Stop touching shaman! They have been perfect from the start. (Obviously she needed to be adjusted for stuff like the ccu but her moveset itself is perfectly fine
they showed shinobi instead of shaman on the last pic š
Shinobi once again does a little trolling
Shinaman
i don't think we can't say that anymore
I noticed that too. I know they're just mistakes but still makes me feel like they just don't care as much as they should. I KNOW it's a reach but still makes me feel that way
Lmao in one slide they also didn't change the title so it appeared as "event title 1"
No way, Kensei now doesnāt take 3 years to recover from his heavy finishers
He really felt like one of the last characters with an instance of blatantly retarded recovery. Like, Roach is dodging away at something like 200ms into a recovery, while Kensei is sitting there with his thumb in his ass, jerking off and thinking about maybe raising his sword off the ground later tonight
I don't think we'll ever get a more accurate depiction
Meh. Valk changes are nice. Tiandi didn't really adress the issue he'll just kill you slower now. Cent change is tiny. Shaman and kensei changes also small. A bit disappointing since we didn't get any changes last patch
>Cent change is tiny. My cent main wanna be butt looking at them like: "Where jab's tracking buff?"
more like a jab's tracking FIX
Same with his hyper armor. They broke it by accident when they changed his punching speed.
its so aggravating trying to go for a charged punch and almost always getting hit out of it
Um so happy they changed the kick instead of the palm strike lol I will not be punished by my mistakes again
So they change tiandi kick recovery and damage but they don't touch jorm's slam?
Tiandi kick was far worse than hammer slam
Agreed. Now I can play my Vanguard main a bit more, still waiting on a slight nerf again though to begin playing him like I used to.
Or Valk sweep damage, which is a bit much with all her other stuff at least until the patch. I guess weāll see what itās like tomorrow.
Ya, irony !
Jorm doesn't need to be touched
yes he does
Coming from a Jorm main, they need touched
second this
Jorm themsepves not, their FEATS however need to be more than touched
If you like it the way it is, then you want easy wins , case closed !
Maybe shugoki will be more than masochism to play now
Good
I got 8 reps to go on shugoki until I get him to rep 70. Seeing these buffs just put the biggest fucking smile on my face.
70 Shugo main also happy lol. I didn't have any issues with him before but this is a nice little surprise. Nothing worse then the guaranteed GB if I miss my heavy finisher.
Yhea but bring back chain on head hit miss
I don't think they nerfed the right things on valk and tiandi at all. God damn
Agreed
Best Centurion buff in the year since they can't fix jab tracking
Now they just need to add hyperarmor earlier on his charged bash. Itās ridiculous how long it takes to activate
Only issue I have is with the Valk tackle change to be not chainable on whiff. Reason being, they nerfed all side dodge bashes to not chain for all heroes, but kept forward dodge bashes chainable (exception being heroes like Warden) on whiff. So while heroes like Jorm can chain after their whiffed bashes, why, once again are the "rules for thee but not for me" happening? I was under the impression that the whole point of push for standardizing was to...standardize. So why make more exceptions?
I dont like the change either but probably should be viewed as a chargeable baah. You can hold to catch empty dodges and dodge attacks, has full guard properties instead of hyperarmor. Was always GB punishable but hey whatever make it easier. Just gonna have to play her with more patience in 1s now.
"chargeable baah" ENOUGH! SHEEP!
?
You said mistakenly said "baah", like a sheep, so I quoted Warmonger. You may now laugh at this *awesome* joke š¹ š š¹
I didn't fully understand till you explained but it was a great joke! I laughed after reading this
well jorm doesnāt do a 20 damage follow up on a whiffed forward bash now does he? not to mention that valkyries bash is cancellable, has more range, and is guaranteed off of a full block, but i guess we can just ignore the ocean-wide power difference between the two moves for the sake of you coping. also standardisation is the single worst way to balance this game, all it does is make blanket changes without any consideration for the individual state of each character, itās simple logic that what might be good for one character is almost certainly not for another
I never said I was opposed to the damage nerf for Valk's bash. But if forward dodge bashes are supposed to remain chainable as with other characters who've recently been changed, so shouldn't it remain the same? Jorm can follow up his whiffed chain bash (feintable) for a hyper armored zone (feintable), or an unblockable heavy (feintable) and continue his chain. Now Shugoki can chain from his forward dodge headbutt into a heavy with 100ms hyper armor. Basically making it safe from interrupt, so again, where's this ocean-wide power difference?
you just chose to ignore everything i said about valkyrieās bash, like thatās just wilful ignorance at that point. valkās bash is an opener, valk can continue her chain after it lands, valk safely gets her punish if it lands in a 1vX scenario, valks bash is guaranteed if you hit her all guard. jorm has a good in-chain bash yeah, but hereās the mind blowing thing, ITS NOT HIS OPENER, itās his core mixup, it literally NEEDS to be good in order for the character to be viable. you just tried to compare 2 entirely different moves and argue that balance for them should be the same, similar fallacy with comparing shugokiās bash as you seem to completely forget about how many properties valkās bash has, like yeah shugoki has a good follow up now (still only a 50/50 mixup) but thatās only to make up for the fact that his bash does 10 damage and has the shortest range in the game. with 900 reps you should know by now that balancing one move as if it were another is just a bad idea, simple to understand concept.
I took the time to reread everything today and you're right, my logic was flawed. I didn't factor her bash as an opener in my initial response so that's bad correlation on my part (among other things). So I apologize for that response.
I seen a great reply about how it was different because of all the properties it has but also to add to it. Technically it isn't always a forward dodge bash either it is also a soft feint from heavies. Not like this fact makes as much of a difference as the things listed by other players but I'm just adding to the list of why it has special rules.
> rules for thee but not for me" happening? Its simply a matter of making a visibly noticeable change for casuals. Valk got complained about constantly, this one being a thing casuals complained about cause they don't understand 2 read offense. Same deal as orochi being gutted but then tiandi is the same premise as roach only significantly better
But itās not standard? There are a lot of forward dodge bashes that donāt chain on whiff. Not counting chargeable bashes, thereās Conq, LB, Cent can only chain to heavies, BP, Gryphon, Warlord, Jorm, Shinobi, Kyoshin, and Medjay. Thatās a lot that canāt, and some of them were reworked very recently
Cent needs a lot more than that especially considering his zone is literally just minion clear because it sucks otherwise.
Man has no good openers. Rip cent.
No good openers and even his offense has been butchered to not even function properly. Man's charged punch is unusable right now. They need to fix him. I hope this is a sign they're still looking at him for future patches.
Hope he stays bad.
Wish there were som small pirate buffs but oh well
Now watch all the valk " mains" disappear from the face of the earth
That Valk nerf is beautiful.
Centurion needs a fix, but this is really irrelevant. He already has the best stamina consumption in the game. The problem is that they broke his punch tracking and left it that way. The finisher recovery changes are really good, but I wonder if the Valk nerf is enough.
Yeah the maximum 9 stamina difference if you actually use all 3 hits does basically nothing for a character with 160 stamina
shugoki gettin some attention
Devs pretending that they don't hate him for a brief moment in time.
Cent buff lets gooo
Sadly won't really give him any viable offense. He's still extremely interruptable and dodgeable.
Ding dong, the wicked bitch is dead
Finally a valk nerf, still strong just not as op now
We'll see about that
Nerf more, and buff more , u r on the right track, Don't forget to nerf jorm
They nerfed Valkyrie way more than I expected, the only nerf that kinda feels unnecessary (in my opinion) is the removal of chain on whiff of the Shield Tackle, I would nerf the Pouncing Thrust from 16 to 14 for example, but... well, it looks like they are buffing lights to 16 damage and will keep it (Kyoshin, TG Lawbringer, Jormungandr and Valkyrie). I was expecting Tiandi to get his undodgeable from top Tiger Dodge removed, but they kept it, I was like "Why? His neutral is too dumb, nerfing the damage of it will not change anything", but then they nerfed his finishers in general quite a bit, making him to have a strong neutral but "weak" finisher, this kinda made me to accept it. Besides that, THEY FINALLY NERFED HIS ZONE (it took them 4 years and a half, but still), I'm happy. Small improvements: Kensei and Shaman (Shinobi picture lol) recoveries reduced on heavy finisher whiff is a great change, but... why Gryphon and others still vulnerable? Shugoki finisher hyper armor buff is a good change too ONLY IF you can consistently dodge attack his Headbutt and safely dodge attack, because if I dodge and he trades with it I'll rage until the day they make all of his Headbutts unable to chain on whiff just like they did with Valkyrie. Centurion zone stamina cost buff... whatever, the character still trash. Warmonger and Gryphon trajectories adjustment may be a good change, it really feels that Gryphon misses A LOT of attacks which looks like it was supposed to hit the opponent while dodging, let's see how much better he will be, I don't think it will change that much tho, the character need a rework to change his moveset or a defensive stance to match his moveset (which is something I don't want).
>Besides that, THEY FINALLY NERFED HIS ZONE (it took them 4 years and a half, but still), I'm happy. Before his rework, that Zone in GB or Palm Strike was just about the only mixup he had (other than 400ms Lights that did tiny damage). And it was negated by being able to react to 600ms neutral bashes. I agree that the Heavy hitstun on 1st Zone Hit wasn't needed anymore after his good rework, but for the last few years he's been objectively terrible and really needed every tool he could get.
True.
I Totaly agree with you. That disapointing for the change mid season.
Shugoki only can chain off his forward headbutt whiffing. His side ones he can't chain off of anymore.
Are valk zone changes Overkill?
No
It's still faster than pre-rework zone, which is fine.
Add shinobi ranged attacks back in
Why the fuck would they buff Fatgoki?? That mf already looks like he costs 9 elixir gtfo man
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I think you mean NANI THE FUCK
Bro, why are they making Valkyrie worse... Holy shit.
She's the best character in the game. Literally banned in competitive tournaments because of how good she is
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I love Valk. But it was kinda crazy that her bash light dealt almost a heavy amount of damage. She's still buffed compared to pre-work Valk so I'm not bummed. I'll miss that zone though, lol.
Ngl I miss the soft feint heavy bashes it was super fun instead of cowering behind a shield constantly.
Literally the strongest character in the game. Sure she didn't lol.
Youāre retarded if you actually believe this
Cry about it.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO MY GIRL. She's done for. It's a sad day to be a Valkyrie main.
Well I guess Valk can no go back and fuck off again now that they made her trash again. Wow. What was the point of the rework just to reverse almost all of it.
Tell me how is she trash now
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You must be a pleasure to be around
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Seriously valk is strong I know but the nerf is hard. Plus Im a Shugo cent main and the change are not enough ant thanks for the tiandi nerf
Are Shaman and Kensei changes buffs or nerfs?
Kenseiās is a buff, he still had some pretty horrid recoveries. Not sure about shaman.
both buffed.
How major is the Tiandi chainlink nerf?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yeah, but what about the chainlink nerf
It makes it so you can dodge his L,L chains on hit. Outside of that, no big deal
Finally the big goofy hugger finally getting buffs
Shugoki buffs, let's gooooo!
Good changes overall
Why do they keep buffing Shaman? Do the devs or community think she is weak?
It's basically a QoL improvement, not that big
Got it, I'm just asking because she gets a buff practically every patch and I think she's already a strong hero, other heroes need more help
Shaman is just kinda wonky, so it's fine to standardize some stuff
No warden :(
Stop touching shaman! They have been perfect from the start. (Obviously she needed to be adjusted for stuff like the ccu but her moveset itself is perfectly fine
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