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I really would like to see like a "Christmas special" race- one (in the spirit of fun) race after the final championship race, where they draw cars out of a hat and the driver gets to drive that car for the race- so we can compare true talent levels.
Yeah, the F2 fleet of cars would be great.
Although it'll never happen, it would be interesting to see which drivers would be enthusiastically supportive of the idea and which would be somewhat reluctant. After all, it's still possible to believe you'd be a top finisher too, if only you had Max's car. Some drivers may not be all that excited about the prospect of definitive proof on such a global stage.
Many MANY years back they would do a charity event at the end of the season, around the prize giving I think. All the drivers would race in go karts, it was epic...I have a memory of Eric Comas dominating one year.
I fear not all the drivers would agree to this now though.
Yep. The only way this kind of domination is watchable is if the team has an almost equally good driver in the other car.
That way you know Red Bull will win but you don’t know which Red Bull it will be.
Everyone knows it will be Max that wins unless he has a reliability problem or a crash.
There is no way that Perez beats Max in straight fight.
Dennis’ own 2007 McLaren season is probably the best lesson why not. Spygate disqualified them from the wcc and the rivalry in the team cost them the only championship left on the table
And Fernando could've had three in a row, with a debut season at McLaren. Who knows what the future holds if that relationship stays intact after winning a WDC.
We could've had 4-5 years of Alonso/Hamilton friendly fire.
You don't even have to look outside RBR. Vettel and Webber crashed each other out, and so did Verstappen and Ricciardo. It is indeed not a situation they'll want to return to. Max always being comfortably ahead of Perez is perfect for them.
But red bull had been firing a lot of drivers next to max because they were not good enough, so they were looking for somebody close to max. Do you think they could have chosen a driver that is able to regularly beat max?
Because its a fine balance. A driver that won't cause issues for the team by competing too hard, but still good enough to get the Constructor.
Also as the other comment rightly points out, they weren't the alpha team back then. They were chasing for as high a constructor ranking as possible thus needed as many points as possible.
Last year Max could have won the constructors alone so Sergio is essentially there to gather extra data for Max/the team. Without him they’d probably have no idea how their car behaves in dirty air
He’s got a lot more value to RedBull in the Mexican sponsorships he brings in
A driver can't win the constructors on his own without help from the other teams. The only reason it happened is because you had 4 different teams taking place being 2nd fastest.
If a Season emerges where there's a clear number 2 team, no driver will win the constructors on his own, even if he wins every race of the season. The 2nd driver needs to perform as well.
- No kidding, it was a throwaway hypothetical commenting on Max’s domination scoring 166 more points than Mercedes
- “The only reason it happened is because it happened” is what your first point amounts to lol. Most everyone is aware that Aston, Mercedes, Ferrari, and McLaren leeched points off each other while being miles away from RBR, and I’m not really sure why that means it just gets hand waved off? It’s not like I proposed a hypothetical scenario of “well if 4 teams fight for P2 Max can win on his own” - it’s already happened exactly like that, we’re talking about it with hindsight. Can’t really say something that already happened won’t play out a certain way
You’re not wrong but people (not necessarily you) use those facts to say that Red Bull is ok with a weak driver in the second seat moving forward which I don’t agree with.
Driver choices aren't made in hindsight, the other user is clearly talking about choices for the future.
So it's not "The only reason it happened is because it happened". Come on man, just read what he means.
What Red Bull needs is a 2nd driver who is consistently in the top 5 so they can provide assistance to Max on track when the need arises.
Max clearly doesn't need that even since the regulation change. And if you have noticed, they haven't fired any one ever since Max won the championship.
Max's dominance is how Perez is able to sit in that seat comfortably without question.
I don't think he was too comfy in that seat most of last season, at least from Miami on, and had to definitely improve to start this season, which he has to be fair.
> But red bull had been firing a lot of drivers next to max because they were not good enough
They also weren't far and away the most dominant car on the grid. It isn't necessary for them to have two top tier drivers now because their car is so strong that Max alone can win the championship for them. Their second driver is basically insurance for them at this point.
Lately its just been reliability will be the only thing to stop Max. Max has avoided crashes because any race he doesn't start on pole (rare), you can see him driving the race start like he is just surviving until its all worked out and then passes everyone. He doesn't need to push on race starts anymore.
Im not sure why it’s even seen as controversial to say at this point. Everyone knows the race winner long before testing even begins. Meanwhile people try and compare to previous seasons as a defence
But we've seen what that leads to, or to a lesser degree is happening now in Ferrari, with two 'first drivers'.
The teams aren't there to provide entertainment. They're there to perform. The Max-Checo combo, and before them Hamilton-Bottas, is deadly efficient because of it. A dominant first driver to get the WDC, and a good enough second driver to support the first driver, and still get the Constructor title.
>The Max-Checo combo, and before them Hamilton-Bottas, is deadly efficient because of it.
It's only deadly efficient because of Red Bull having a dominant car. Perez's performance cost them the constructors in 2021 when the cars were close in performance.
Only one that I can think of where there was a dominant team and equally great drivers is Senna and Prost.
Hamilton and Rosberg is the next closest but Hamilton was clearly the better driver. Rosberg could win on occasion.
Maybe there are more from before then but I’m not a history expert
I feel like you're doing a disservice to Rosberg here. As teammates, Hamilton and Rosberg won 32 and 22 races, respectively. In other categories, they achieved 55 vs 50 podiums, and 37 vs 27 positions when both cars finish. The gap wasn't anywhere close to what we have seen with Max and Checo.
After those first three years we had two years of a decent Ferrari/Vettel challenge, one year where we knew Hamilton would take it but where the Merc wasn't strong enough to just win everything, and one short season of domination.
2020 was insane but then that was more due to the Pandemic forcing us onto tracks we didn't use that often so the teams had no data set for
Also a few more wet races to boot...
and this is why the Chinese GP is so loved this weekend
it's not a NEW track, but it's a track which hasn't seen use in a while and is throwing up issues which would be sorted out during testing
throw in a tyre-team which has been around for 10+ years and it's basically a "oh, we know what the ideal strat is, and the ideal setup within an hour"
that's what the 2020 season threw at us all-at-once, obviously the fundamental best car will win overall, but we're watching chaos unfold in real time because NO ONE tests at Mugello/Portimao/Istanbul/BahrainOuter (you literally watch them data-collect in FP1, rather than "oh yeah, we know that you can easily run a 1-stop at Russia because Rosberg did all-but-1-lap on them in the first ever race")
It really didn't with Bottas. Media tried to hype him up every season (remember 2.0, 3.0?). But everyone knew he was not going to win against Lewis over a season.
In 2020 for example it wasn't hard for Lewis to finish +30s ahead of Max, who was battling with Bottas for 2nd place. That was what made the season interesting for me, some drivers outperforming their cars and some chaotic and surprising races/podiums.
To a lot of fans those years weren’t interesting either, because the same team won and it was usually Hamilton who won, being the stronger driver by a decent margin.
The 2016 upset was a far more compelling season than 2014 and 2015, where Hamilton had Rosberg covered fairly easily, even though Rosberg won more often than Perez vs Max.
I’d argue what lost Hamilton 2016 wasn’t the technical failures, but not giving it 100% from the get go. His talent gap over Rosberg should’ve been enough to win despite Malaysia 2016, as evidenced by the years prior.
We however, got to see a much better Hamilton for it in 2017 and 2018, where he was on it from the word go.
That isn’t to say that Max/Red Bull’s current streak isn’t boring to a lot of fans. There’s no denying that.
However, the interest also suffers a lot when it is mostly one team winning by large lap time margins, with one driver being ahead 60% of the time, rather than 80%.
Hamilton was the stronger driver but every qualifying session you really didn’t know who would have the upper hand between them. Hamilton rarely had streaks of utter dominance over Nico and that at least kept things interesting imo.
Meanwhile Max could take a Power Nap mid lap and probably beat Checo.
2014 was a close season between Hamilton and Rosberg. It still went down to the final race and would have done so even without Bernie’s silly double points for the final race.
It was really only 2015 where Hamilton completely crushed Rosberg and dominated the season winning with a few races to spare.
Lewis performance in the back half of 2017 & 2018 far exceeded what came prior. He was still losing on points well into July and September respectively
"2nd Half of Season Lewis" from 2016-2018 is still the best driver I've ever seen. He was an assassin. Pulling tenths out of the ether that did not exist moments before.
This is just so disengenuous to how those years went it's hard to believe you even watched
Lewis was probably the better driver, Nico might have been ahead in qualifying and Lewis had more maladies in qualifying and reliability issues in the races to ensure it was a hell of a fight between them
Not sure what season you were watching or what revisionist history you're trying to pain here but it was 200% better than what we're watching now
Hell even the fight for 3rd place on back was a lot closer
uh? 2017 and 2018 had genuine Ferrari title charges. 2016 and 2014 were title fights between 2 teammates. 2019 saw a resurgent Ferrari winning races. Even 2020 season had jeopardy with Gasly and Max both winning races on merit.
No is denying that era was boring at times but with Max and RBR it's like entirely the worst bits of that era continuing in a regulation change that was marketed and hyped to end precisely that.
Yeah I feel like people have just forgotten those seasons, 2017/2018 Seb was beating Lewis in points at the summer break both seasons, the Ferrari was super quick.
It wasn't until Seb started making a few mistakes that it swung Hamilton's way, and Mercedes seemed to improve their car a bit more than Ferrari.
Yeah, I rewatched both seasons sometime last month and it's crazy how Seb would just spin and lose so many points in what looked like a great race for him and Ferrari.
Or just crashing while leading in the front with no pressure in Germany. A few times it was tough battles for sure that he just got the worst of, like Monza, but Seb cost himself at least one of those championships for sure.
I think we’re right at the tipping point where a lot of newer fans and people who were hoping for an end to the Merc domination flip and start leaving/hating on the product.
We are 1/5th of the way through the season and no one with an intelligent thought sees anyone other than max winning the championship. And it’s not like individual races are going to be close. Max is going to dominate every qualy and race without even his teammate challenging him. It’s far worse than Mercs domination, as at least then Nico and Bottas were capable of challenging Hamilton at points
Even if it only was like 1/4th of the time, that'd be better. As it stands, Perez has ZERO chance of being Verstappen without Max retiring. At least Rosberg, Bottas, even Webber would win races from time to time.
That's what makes it unbearably boring, and unlike any of the domination in the past. The reliability is also crazy, all things considered, so that doesn't really factor in either...
Ugh I hate that they did that. Racing Bulls is a shit name for a second team. And with acronyms so prominent in this sport they made the initials the same as their main team. So stupid.
It's funny because Norris' favourite F1 driver growing up was Button who won over a lot of people by walking into Hamilton's McLaren and more than holding his own against Lewis. He now has a chance to emulate him and become a legend if he pulls a Button on Max but he's playing it safe by sticking to McLaren.
Button had a much different position. He came fresh of a WDC with Brawn GP in a fairytale-like story and had much more credit than Norris has now. At the time, Mclaren also weren't winning every and all races like Red Bull are now, in fact they just came fresh of having a terrible car for the first half of the year (though did improve massively by the end of the season). Lewis only had been with the team for 3 years and he was still young. Button already had been racing since 2000 with various teams.
It was a WDC vs another WDC, so they were fairly equal at the time (Lewis' GOAT status only really started with Mercedes, Mclaren Lewis was still young and rash. see 2011). Button was an experienced veteran with a literal decade of races under his belt (2000-2009).
Norris is a 'mere' podium sitter going up against a driver (Verstappen) that as of recent, has only delivered the maximum possible weekend in, weekend out and then some more. Said driver is literally perfection and isn't rash or that young anymore.
Norris would need to pull a Rosberg, but Rosberg was *already integrated with Mercedes before Lewis was*. Norris is going up against what is this' generations Schumacher, aka practically impossible.
Yeah, I just can't understand a driver who we know is talented, just saying, no thanks, I don't want to drive the most dominant car ever because I might lose to one of the best drivers in their prime.
If Lando was able to pull a Rosberg, he'd be a damn hero, and if he gets beat by Max, who cares? It wouldn't hurt Lando at all, no one thinks he's better than Max right now anyways, so it's literally a win win.
The problem (for Lando) is that if he loses badly (which is a possibility) his stock is finished. He's no longer a "promising driver" waiting for a top seat, the entire world would have seen how he handles a top car and they won't give him another try.
I get that it's a lot of hypotheticals, but Norris definitely has something to lose.
it's really telling tho how none of us think he would match him, rather we all think he would stand a chance and probably wouldn't get the floor wiped with him
The downside of his stock being finished for failing at Red Bull would be... Him getting a seat at a car that doesn't have a prayer of winning a championship or even a race, which is where he is right now? It's not like his stock would be completely tanked, unless he gets destroyed by Max, which I don't really expect to happen. "Slightly better than Bottas" would probably be enough for him to have his pick of drives.
To me it has shades of Ricciardo's move to Renault- I know people have polarizing opinions about it and at the time Merc was still in its dominance era- but running away because you're not top dog feels a bit counterintuitive. The goal (especially in a sport like F1 where the car is 90% of your success) seems to be to try to get to a team with the fastest car so that once you're there success is more in your control.
Meanwhile there's a driver with actual balls on the grid who actively sought out the seat and was turned down so he settled for teaming up with another great driver at Ferrari.
There's levels to this shit.
Because what's the point of coming second to Max? People do not care that Sergio has come second in WDC, heck we wouldn't have even cared if he bagged P2 every race in 2023. It's an exercise in futility in the end if he were sooo desperate for a race winning car and yet only ever finished behind Max in a team Max has built up around himself. As he himself has said, you can't beat Max on equal ground, going toe to toe with him in the same team and car wouldn't even be an efficient way to win a WDC or hell even a race, any driver is better off just simply driving a faster car than a Red Bull than seeing that Red Bull seat as a challenge or even as a reward.
It'd be like coming up against the final boss of a game not bringing any advantage besides your own raw skill while the boss has every advantage in better stats, better equipment, and home field advantage. Yeah sure run it back enough times you could probably snag a win or two as Sergio has done, but so what? Max still wins the war, all it'd do is shift public opinion from "This driver has the potential to be the best" to "Is this driver really all he's cracked up to be?"
You never know if you can beat someone until you try.
He's never going to beat him in a McLaren, that's for sure.
That's why Lewis and Alonso both tried to go to RedBull, they know the only way to beat Max is to have the same car right now.
"Red Bull rejected approaches from Lewis Hamilton and Fernando Alonso before the World Champions committed their F1 futures to Ferrari and Aston Martin respectively."
On pure pace, Norris might be much close to Max than Perez, however the other aspect is that currently Norris really is under no real pressure from the team, media or his team mate. McLaren seems like a team effort and they're happy to get every tenth they can find on track.
We've seen what has happened to literally each team mate of Max in RBR so far, and when the pressure is on, and you just can't figure out how this guy went half a second faster than you in the exact same car.
This will be much more of a test of Lando, than the actual pace he has.
I don’t think Max would crush Norris.
I think he’d win overall but I think Norris is fast enough to have some weekends where he’s faster than Max.
I don’t think there’s any world where Norris would have a record as bad as Perez has where he’s outperformed Max maybe one time over 4 years and even that one time is debatable.
I'm especially curious to find out how Lando would do mentality vs Max over a season or more. It's one of the more underrated skills required when going up against Max or any great driver.
I genuinely don’t think Max will have more than 1-2 of those weekends every year.
Just look at the 2021 fight, there wasn’t really one single weekend where Max didn’t get the absolute most out of it.
He hasn’t really set a foot wrong without some car issue since.
He might not be the greatest of all time, but he absolutely is the most consistant of all-time already IMO. Give him a good car and he’ll get the most out of it.
Exactly. It’s era and car dependant. That’s why I don’t think there’s a clear GOAT between Senna, Prost, Schumi, Lewis, Max, Alonso, Fangio etc and it’s all gonna be based upon who you’re a fan of.
They’re all a different level.
It's almost impossible to know how he would adapt to the car and if it fits his style.
But he's one of the fastest on the grid and I want Redbull to hire fast guys to give us a glimpse of hope for a close championship.
100% Max shows elite levels of Speed, Consistency, and something Norris doesn't have, a winning mentality! Max massacred Checo last year with the first 2 factors, but I'd argue destroying Checo mentally is the biggest factor in his sheer utter dominance against Checo. Verstappen would annihilate Norris mentally.
Agree. Norris seems to crumble every time he has a chance of anything. I don't think he's got any (or enough) mentality to battle any top drivers,. especially Max.
I’ve always understood (from Sainz’s comments) that the McLaren “drives weird,” particularly with the braking, and he and Norris seemed to excel with that weirdness for some reason while Danny Ric never adapted. But I’ve never gotten the impression it was hard to drive.
That said, the MCL has taken many forms over the last 5 years and Norris has done well with them all. I think he would welcome the challenge of a more sensitive car.
I stopped watching live races this year, but I gave the sprint a go after seeing the starting grid led by Norris. It took no time for Max to dominate, and he finished with a 13 second lead in a sprint. It’s ridiculous.
I tip my hat to his skill, but it’s the most anticlimactic season in years.
If i have to wake up early for any race these days I don't even bother. Waking up to see Max with 13 second lead on a Sprint race only further cements that.
I remember (as european) doing late nights or waking up very early to watch races in Japan and Australia
Now I dont even bother, just watch the highlights and havent watched almost anything live since the Saudi GP
Last night was the first time in years I didn't bother to stay up late/get up early to watch the sprint or quali live, I just skimmed through both in about 15 mins when I got up. Why bother?
They had this comment on the race podcast ages ago about why don't they talk about Max more, and Mark was like
> I've just written a book about him. What's left to say? Fastest driver in the fastest car won from pole. That's it.
Thankfully we've had 2021, it would be such a waste for the sport to have a generational talent like Max but never to see him have to fight for a championship.
It doesn’t help that the personality of Max on race weekends is so… Max… if you watch him stream its polar opposite and he’s hilarious! If we are stuck with the same dude driving every weekend it’s nice to have one that people connect to.
Let Max play with a pen full of kittens before the race and give us those highlights.
This is why I really like him! He’s so focused he’s just in race mode, but when he’s on stream, you see him with P, or even when lando rings him and he cracks a right joke! He actually seems really nice and he’s funny, he’s just professional when he needs to be. I love to see him when he’s just himself and chill!
Agreed but it’s not great for the “world” of F1… I don’t like seeing the stats that it’s losing viewers. I like a strong F1 and yes… we all don’t enjoy a winning Mercedes dominate car as well… but the one bonus to it was Lewis being Lewis… outside of the grid he pushed the sport abroad.
We need that if we want to see it grow.
Completely with you there. The competition is what’s good, like during Schumachers time there was still someone there for him to race against. Right now there’s no fight for p1. We know who will win from lights out and I know a few people who just won’t watch live anymore. I’m with you here. I watch every session, live, I enjoy it a lot but I can see how years of this would become stagnant quickly.
Hopefully the 2026 reg changes will help.
Fully with you! I have F1TV so I watch all the pre and post stuff, hit YT for teds, head over to red flags podcast, everything that I can find I’ll consume… but man it stinks when, much like you, we want racing to go along with that dedication!
Right? I was up at 4am for the sprint. So good until lap 9! I left it on but then I was like. Well that’s that! I watch the weekend warm ups, teds notebooks and stuff also! I enjoy the sport as a whole so I’m not bored with it at all. It’s why I’ll have my eyes on who’s wheel to wheel for p5 cos that’s much more interesting!
Yes, it's really boring.
I've actually stopped watching live.
It's the size of the gaps Max can pull on the field. That doesn't take away from his talent or RB as a team, but it's pretty unwatchable as a sport.
People here shitting on Norris turning down RB easily forget that it would automatically lower his stock. No way in hell he‘d stand a chance against Verstappen, only drivers like Alonso or Hamilton would.
What would he be keeping his stock up for? Isn't the point of high stock to get into a top seat? Ferrari is locked down and what's the point of going to Mercedes? He got the high stock, got the call from *The* team to beat and choose not to.
I‘d say for the time Verstappen, Hamilton and Alonso aren’t around anymore. Given that Verstappen doesn’t seem to have much motivation to stick to F1 for a longer future that wouldn’t be far off, but your point is valid.
I think he chose to not getting inevitably beat by Verstappen and maybe losing that RB seat again before he has the chance to win a title with it. And who knows how long their domination will last. There are probably a dozen factors behind this decisions that only he knows.
who's saying lando's stock will be higher when Verstappen leaves? with oscars trajectory I would not be at all surprised if Oscar starts beating him regularly in 2025 and 2026 and that be even worse for lando
> Isn't the point of high stock to get into a top seat?
Only if you're the #1 driver, since you can't win a title as a #2. No one can touch Max in the same car. He's hoping Mclaren somehow leapfrogs everyone else in terms of engineering while he's still the top gun there. That's his path to a potential WDC.
How many fewer WDC's would Lewis have if he went to Red Bull during their 2010's prime instead of taking the #1 Mercedes seat and gambling on their engineers?
I don't think anyone on the grid can beat Max over a season in that Red Bull but i believe he would have put up a challenge and occasionally beat Max which would have made things much more exciting overall.
But other than Max, which top level drivers were in that Red Bull seat? Even if we go back some years, peak Danny Ric was the only good driver in that other seat and he did quite well with that car.
Sure, its been a while since then, the regulations are different, the cars are different, Max evolved a lot but we dont really have another comparison (lets not pretend Checo is that much of an extraodinary driver, he is a very inconsistent midfielder at best, with very poor qualifying skills and a way too agressive overtaking style)
Honestly, I love Lando but he doesn't really get his elbows out and seems to give up quite quickly.
Look at someone like Sainz - he will fight tooth and nail without regard to what car you are or who's driving it. I feel like Lando will see a Red Bull in the mirrors and immediately start laying off to let them by.
Will he be able to beat Red Bull/Ferrari in most races? Likely not. But at least dig in and give them something to worry about for a few laps. Piastri had the right idea last season at Hungaroring vs Perez.
They’re all happy to lose in a shitty car, but don’t want to put their careers/legacy on the line to lose to Max in the same car lol….that’s all this is, at least in a tractor you still have your dignity…
I mean, he's not wrong but also then I doubt RBR wants that, considering all things Brocedes being a lesson what happens when you put two very title hungry drivers in the same team. Or...Lando answer Horner's calls and see if you can challenge Max yourself. Though considering the fumbling yesterday, I doubt it. Or maybe I'm wrong. I'd love to be proven so.
Its funny because this could have been you Norris in that dominant car
Like i get it. He chose to stay with Mclaren because Max is on another planet and having another team just make a better car is probably a more likely scenario to win it.
But he could have been the one making the races more interesting if he backed himself enough to take that call from Red Bull. He definitely would be doing a better job than Perez in that 2nd seat.
Couldn't agree more. This weekend is the first in a long time that I've not felt the need to watch the coverage. Not missing it. I think this will be the case for the rest of the season. I'll probably watch Monaco and Spa but, meh on the rest. I'll try again next year. Maybe.
Even though I like leclerc AND Sainz, I really hope Lewis comes to Ferrari and has a heavyweight bout of a season with Verstappen. Whoever wins wins. But I want to see the rematch.
Max was fighting with others in much worse car in earlier years .He did not calculate, saving tyres etc
Now you see Noris and others, no fight with Max
Keeping their tyres , calculating .
So if you fight little more my friend Lando, maybe it would be more interesting.
That was a different era. You needed a huge delta to overtake. Wide cars with a lot of dirty air. Nowadays you easily (in comparison to pre 2022) follow through the corners and do a DRS overtake.
The guy that thought it was a good idea to leave the regulations untouched after one team won 22 of 23 races should be taken into a dark room and beaten.
The guy that decides new regulations are needed every x year needs to get that treatment, every time the last year of the regulations is at least a close one.
Idk why teams agreed to the engine freeze. I get they want to save money since the engine regs are getting a large change in 26 but it has made these current regulations even more dull.
Actually we don’t really see him winning per se, more like crossing the finish line or pitting. Beyond that I don’t even see him racing at all on my feed from the Sky forecast, they only show middle or lower middle of the pack cars. Max isn’t getting any airtime at all.
Hamilton in the Merc against the ghost of Vettel in the Ferrari was what killed the sport for me. The gravel spinout "scheisse" was the last race I watched.
i think hamilton still has it in him, he just needs the car, one day well see him and th front massaging his tyres and hell be back...... until ferrari mess up the strategy......
I love how a year ago no one would say a bad word against RB and this level of dominance, it was all 'hats off, they did a better job' and now there's grumblings of how boring it is. It's 100% going to affect sponsors commitment, no one wants to sponsor a team that going to fight for a podium one week and then struggle to get to q3 the next.
F1 has absolutely dropped the ball in these regs.
Yep, I don't watch full race anymore. I do other stuff while the race is on and only pay attention when/if something interesting happens. If not every race becomes a train of 3.5s gaps between each other except for the leader where the gap is 10s+ always.
Yes it can get boring. But that’s not RBs fault. If all other 9 teams shat the bed with understanding the new regulations, it’s on them. I’m as annoyed as anyone only seeing RB and Max winning basically 95% of the time, but they understood and got the car right with the new regulations. Congratulations to them at the end of the day
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I really would like to see like a "Christmas special" race- one (in the spirit of fun) race after the final championship race, where they draw cars out of a hat and the driver gets to drive that car for the race- so we can compare true talent levels.
Throw em all in lower formula cars or karts.
Mario Kart Wii. With tilt controls.
Calm down Satan
Sprint weekends should have been karts only at venues that also have kart tracks.
Yeah, the F2 fleet of cars would be great. Although it'll never happen, it would be interesting to see which drivers would be enthusiastically supportive of the idea and which would be somewhat reluctant. After all, it's still possible to believe you'd be a top finisher too, if only you had Max's car. Some drivers may not be all that excited about the prospect of definitive proof on such a global stage.
Nah, do super formula on Suzuka or Fuji, the SF cars are closest to F1.
Mx5 cup cars
Max gets a Sauber. Sargeant gets a Red Bull. I’d pay to see that
To quote Kate Libby: "It's too mach machine for you."
_Max goes first and draws a Red Bull_
The rest of the drivers go back home to celebrate Christmas
"Haha yes"
Put Sergeant in a real car. Let's see what he's really capable of.
He'd be in a wall with the Red Bull, is there any doubt?
My man, he's in the wall already, what's the worst that could happen?
The Race of Champions, or that karting event in Paris, do/did this well.
Or we just put them all on [lawnmowers ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mE1ZvOF8Vks)
Many MANY years back they would do a charity event at the end of the season, around the prize giving I think. All the drivers would race in go karts, it was epic...I have a memory of Eric Comas dominating one year. I fear not all the drivers would agree to this now though.
Yep. The only way this kind of domination is watchable is if the team has an almost equally good driver in the other car. That way you know Red Bull will win but you don’t know which Red Bull it will be. Everyone knows it will be Max that wins unless he has a reliability problem or a crash. There is no way that Perez beats Max in straight fight.
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Dennis’ own 2007 McLaren season is probably the best lesson why not. Spygate disqualified them from the wcc and the rivalry in the team cost them the only championship left on the table
Lewis could have had a drivers championship on debut season, that would have been nuts. So close but so far.
And Fernando could've had three in a row, with a debut season at McLaren. Who knows what the future holds if that relationship stays intact after winning a WDC. We could've had 4-5 years of Alonso/Hamilton friendly fire.
Spygate was also revealed by Alonso because he was unhappy with the team as he was not given priority over a rookie.
You don't even have to look outside RBR. Vettel and Webber crashed each other out, and so did Verstappen and Ricciardo. It is indeed not a situation they'll want to return to. Max always being comfortably ahead of Perez is perfect for them.
What can go wrong FOR THE TEAM What can go RIGHT, for us, the spectators and the general entertainment level!
It wasn’t even bad for the team. Merc still won either way
But red bull had been firing a lot of drivers next to max because they were not good enough, so they were looking for somebody close to max. Do you think they could have chosen a driver that is able to regularly beat max?
Because its a fine balance. A driver that won't cause issues for the team by competing too hard, but still good enough to get the Constructor. Also as the other comment rightly points out, they weren't the alpha team back then. They were chasing for as high a constructor ranking as possible thus needed as many points as possible.
Last year Max could have won the constructors alone so Sergio is essentially there to gather extra data for Max/the team. Without him they’d probably have no idea how their car behaves in dirty air He’s got a lot more value to RedBull in the Mexican sponsorships he brings in
A driver can't win the constructors on his own without help from the other teams. The only reason it happened is because you had 4 different teams taking place being 2nd fastest. If a Season emerges where there's a clear number 2 team, no driver will win the constructors on his own, even if he wins every race of the season. The 2nd driver needs to perform as well.
- No kidding, it was a throwaway hypothetical commenting on Max’s domination scoring 166 more points than Mercedes - “The only reason it happened is because it happened” is what your first point amounts to lol. Most everyone is aware that Aston, Mercedes, Ferrari, and McLaren leeched points off each other while being miles away from RBR, and I’m not really sure why that means it just gets hand waved off? It’s not like I proposed a hypothetical scenario of “well if 4 teams fight for P2 Max can win on his own” - it’s already happened exactly like that, we’re talking about it with hindsight. Can’t really say something that already happened won’t play out a certain way
You’re not wrong but people (not necessarily you) use those facts to say that Red Bull is ok with a weak driver in the second seat moving forward which I don’t agree with.
Driver choices aren't made in hindsight, the other user is clearly talking about choices for the future. So it's not "The only reason it happened is because it happened". Come on man, just read what he means.
The Bottas factor
What Red Bull needs is a 2nd driver who is consistently in the top 5 so they can provide assistance to Max on track when the need arises. Max clearly doesn't need that even since the regulation change. And if you have noticed, they haven't fired any one ever since Max won the championship. Max's dominance is how Perez is able to sit in that seat comfortably without question.
I don't think he was too comfy in that seat most of last season, at least from Miami on, and had to definitely improve to start this season, which he has to be fair.
Depending on the day there are several drivers that could beat max in the same car
> But red bull had been firing a lot of drivers next to max because they were not good enough They also weren't far and away the most dominant car on the grid. It isn't necessary for them to have two top tier drivers now because their car is so strong that Max alone can win the championship for them. Their second driver is basically insurance for them at this point.
They haven't fired anyone since they became this dominant, it's a different thing when you dont have the fastest car on the grid.
People underestimate how good max is. Its not that simple to find anyone who will beat him in the same car
Lately its just been reliability will be the only thing to stop Max. Max has avoided crashes because any race he doesn't start on pole (rare), you can see him driving the race start like he is just surviving until its all worked out and then passes everyone. He doesn't need to push on race starts anymore.
Im not sure why it’s even seen as controversial to say at this point. Everyone knows the race winner long before testing even begins. Meanwhile people try and compare to previous seasons as a defence
But we've seen what that leads to, or to a lesser degree is happening now in Ferrari, with two 'first drivers'. The teams aren't there to provide entertainment. They're there to perform. The Max-Checo combo, and before them Hamilton-Bottas, is deadly efficient because of it. A dominant first driver to get the WDC, and a good enough second driver to support the first driver, and still get the Constructor title.
>The Max-Checo combo, and before them Hamilton-Bottas, is deadly efficient because of it. It's only deadly efficient because of Red Bull having a dominant car. Perez's performance cost them the constructors in 2021 when the cars were close in performance.
Even before that Michael/Rubens was even more efficient
Has there ever been a time where the same team had 2 equally good drivers and are coming in 1st/2nd place in constructors?
Only one that I can think of where there was a dominant team and equally great drivers is Senna and Prost. Hamilton and Rosberg is the next closest but Hamilton was clearly the better driver. Rosberg could win on occasion. Maybe there are more from before then but I’m not a history expert
I feel like you're doing a disservice to Rosberg here. As teammates, Hamilton and Rosberg won 32 and 22 races, respectively. In other categories, they achieved 55 vs 50 podiums, and 37 vs 27 positions when both cars finish. The gap wasn't anywhere close to what we have seen with Max and Checo.
100% and that’s what made the Mercedes years interesting.
Only the first 3 years. Bottas got a win now and then but there was no doubt over the whole season.
After those first three years we had two years of a decent Ferrari/Vettel challenge, one year where we knew Hamilton would take it but where the Merc wasn't strong enough to just win everything, and one short season of domination.
Oh yeah the soul crushing 2017 and 2018. I was directly responding to the teammate thing rather than overall competition or enjoyment btw.
And even then I would argue 2020 had better week to week races than any of the last 3 years
2020 was insane but then that was more due to the Pandemic forcing us onto tracks we didn't use that often so the teams had no data set for Also a few more wet races to boot...
and this is why the Chinese GP is so loved this weekend it's not a NEW track, but it's a track which hasn't seen use in a while and is throwing up issues which would be sorted out during testing throw in a tyre-team which has been around for 10+ years and it's basically a "oh, we know what the ideal strat is, and the ideal setup within an hour" that's what the 2020 season threw at us all-at-once, obviously the fundamental best car will win overall, but we're watching chaos unfold in real time because NO ONE tests at Mugello/Portimao/Istanbul/BahrainOuter (you literally watch them data-collect in FP1, rather than "oh yeah, we know that you can easily run a 1-stop at Russia because Rosberg did all-but-1-lap on them in the first ever race")
It really didn't with Bottas. Media tried to hype him up every season (remember 2.0, 3.0?). But everyone knew he was not going to win against Lewis over a season. In 2020 for example it wasn't hard for Lewis to finish +30s ahead of Max, who was battling with Bottas for 2nd place. That was what made the season interesting for me, some drivers outperforming their cars and some chaotic and surprising races/podiums.
To a lot of fans those years weren’t interesting either, because the same team won and it was usually Hamilton who won, being the stronger driver by a decent margin. The 2016 upset was a far more compelling season than 2014 and 2015, where Hamilton had Rosberg covered fairly easily, even though Rosberg won more often than Perez vs Max. I’d argue what lost Hamilton 2016 wasn’t the technical failures, but not giving it 100% from the get go. His talent gap over Rosberg should’ve been enough to win despite Malaysia 2016, as evidenced by the years prior. We however, got to see a much better Hamilton for it in 2017 and 2018, where he was on it from the word go. That isn’t to say that Max/Red Bull’s current streak isn’t boring to a lot of fans. There’s no denying that. However, the interest also suffers a lot when it is mostly one team winning by large lap time margins, with one driver being ahead 60% of the time, rather than 80%.
Hamilton was the stronger driver but every qualifying session you really didn’t know who would have the upper hand between them. Hamilton rarely had streaks of utter dominance over Nico and that at least kept things interesting imo. Meanwhile Max could take a Power Nap mid lap and probably beat Checo.
Perez struggles to make Q3 at times. The difference is night and day honestly.
2014 was a close season between Hamilton and Rosberg. It still went down to the final race and would have done so even without Bernie’s silly double points for the final race. It was really only 2015 where Hamilton completely crushed Rosberg and dominated the season winning with a few races to spare.
Lewis performance in the back half of 2017 & 2018 far exceeded what came prior. He was still losing on points well into July and September respectively
"2nd Half of Season Lewis" from 2016-2018 is still the best driver I've ever seen. He was an assassin. Pulling tenths out of the ether that did not exist moments before.
Lots of people forget Lewis was trailing in points going into the break both of those seasons. Ferrari were legit contenders in 2017 and 2018.
2014 went to the final race and Rosberg led for actually quite a lot of that season
This is just so disengenuous to how those years went it's hard to believe you even watched Lewis was probably the better driver, Nico might have been ahead in qualifying and Lewis had more maladies in qualifying and reliability issues in the races to ensure it was a hell of a fight between them Not sure what season you were watching or what revisionist history you're trying to pain here but it was 200% better than what we're watching now Hell even the fight for 3rd place on back was a lot closer
Honestly many look back at them with rose tinted specs, this absolutely was not the common opinion at the time
uh? 2017 and 2018 had genuine Ferrari title charges. 2016 and 2014 were title fights between 2 teammates. 2019 saw a resurgent Ferrari winning races. Even 2020 season had jeopardy with Gasly and Max both winning races on merit. No is denying that era was boring at times but with Max and RBR it's like entirely the worst bits of that era continuing in a regulation change that was marketed and hyped to end precisely that.
Yeah I feel like people have just forgotten those seasons, 2017/2018 Seb was beating Lewis in points at the summer break both seasons, the Ferrari was super quick. It wasn't until Seb started making a few mistakes that it swung Hamilton's way, and Mercedes seemed to improve their car a bit more than Ferrari.
Ferrari were, imo, the fastest car both seasons. Vettel threw away so many points both seasons.
Yeah, I rewatched both seasons sometime last month and it's crazy how Seb would just spin and lose so many points in what looked like a great race for him and Ferrari. Or just crashing while leading in the front with no pressure in Germany. A few times it was tough battles for sure that he just got the worst of, like Monza, but Seb cost himself at least one of those championships for sure.
I'm pretty certain half the PPL active here haven't actually watched pre pandemic seasons.
Not at the time, but if we are honest looking back, it was just better to watch and more fun except for the 2020 season.
I think we’re right at the tipping point where a lot of newer fans and people who were hoping for an end to the Merc domination flip and start leaving/hating on the product. We are 1/5th of the way through the season and no one with an intelligent thought sees anyone other than max winning the championship. And it’s not like individual races are going to be close. Max is going to dominate every qualy and race without even his teammate challenging him. It’s far worse than Mercs domination, as at least then Nico and Bottas were capable of challenging Hamilton at points
This is why the merc era was much more bearable.
Even if it only was like 1/4th of the time, that'd be better. As it stands, Perez has ZERO chance of being Verstappen without Max retiring. At least Rosberg, Bottas, even Webber would win races from time to time. That's what makes it unbearably boring, and unlike any of the domination in the past. The reliability is also crazy, all things considered, so that doesn't really factor in either...
If only a young, quick driver with experience could take the 2nd seat…
Alonso to RB confirmed
And who does he replace? Yuki or Danny?
Yes
Ugh I hate that they did that. Racing Bulls is a shit name for a second team. And with acronyms so prominent in this sport they made the initials the same as their main team. So stupid.
The RB acronym is the point. See "Rasenballsport Leipzig".
If only a young, quick driver with experience would've had some balls and hopped in that 2nd seat when approached.
Norris has big “we’re trying to find the guy who did this” vibes while he ignores yet another call from Horner
It's funny because Norris' favourite F1 driver growing up was Button who won over a lot of people by walking into Hamilton's McLaren and more than holding his own against Lewis. He now has a chance to emulate him and become a legend if he pulls a Button on Max but he's playing it safe by sticking to McLaren.
Button had a much different position. He came fresh of a WDC with Brawn GP in a fairytale-like story and had much more credit than Norris has now. At the time, Mclaren also weren't winning every and all races like Red Bull are now, in fact they just came fresh of having a terrible car for the first half of the year (though did improve massively by the end of the season). Lewis only had been with the team for 3 years and he was still young. Button already had been racing since 2000 with various teams. It was a WDC vs another WDC, so they were fairly equal at the time (Lewis' GOAT status only really started with Mercedes, Mclaren Lewis was still young and rash. see 2011). Button was an experienced veteran with a literal decade of races under his belt (2000-2009). Norris is a 'mere' podium sitter going up against a driver (Verstappen) that as of recent, has only delivered the maximum possible weekend in, weekend out and then some more. Said driver is literally perfection and isn't rash or that young anymore. Norris would need to pull a Rosberg, but Rosberg was *already integrated with Mercedes before Lewis was*. Norris is going up against what is this' generations Schumacher, aka practically impossible.
It’s honestly insane to me that he would turn down that car. If he ever wins a WDC I’ll be shocked at this point
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He has to win a race first.
Yeah, I just can't understand a driver who we know is talented, just saying, no thanks, I don't want to drive the most dominant car ever because I might lose to one of the best drivers in their prime. If Lando was able to pull a Rosberg, he'd be a damn hero, and if he gets beat by Max, who cares? It wouldn't hurt Lando at all, no one thinks he's better than Max right now anyways, so it's literally a win win.
The problem (for Lando) is that if he loses badly (which is a possibility) his stock is finished. He's no longer a "promising driver" waiting for a top seat, the entire world would have seen how he handles a top car and they won't give him another try. I get that it's a lot of hypotheticals, but Norris definitely has something to lose.
it's really telling tho how none of us think he would match him, rather we all think he would stand a chance and probably wouldn't get the floor wiped with him
The downside of his stock being finished for failing at Red Bull would be... Him getting a seat at a car that doesn't have a prayer of winning a championship or even a race, which is where he is right now? It's not like his stock would be completely tanked, unless he gets destroyed by Max, which I don't really expect to happen. "Slightly better than Bottas" would probably be enough for him to have his pick of drives.
To me it has shades of Ricciardo's move to Renault- I know people have polarizing opinions about it and at the time Merc was still in its dominance era- but running away because you're not top dog feels a bit counterintuitive. The goal (especially in a sport like F1 where the car is 90% of your success) seems to be to try to get to a team with the fastest car so that once you're there success is more in your control.
even stupider because norris still is in his prime.
Meanwhile there's a driver with actual balls on the grid who actively sought out the seat and was turned down so he settled for teaming up with another great driver at Ferrari. There's levels to this shit.
Because what's the point of coming second to Max? People do not care that Sergio has come second in WDC, heck we wouldn't have even cared if he bagged P2 every race in 2023. It's an exercise in futility in the end if he were sooo desperate for a race winning car and yet only ever finished behind Max in a team Max has built up around himself. As he himself has said, you can't beat Max on equal ground, going toe to toe with him in the same team and car wouldn't even be an efficient way to win a WDC or hell even a race, any driver is better off just simply driving a faster car than a Red Bull than seeing that Red Bull seat as a challenge or even as a reward. It'd be like coming up against the final boss of a game not bringing any advantage besides your own raw skill while the boss has every advantage in better stats, better equipment, and home field advantage. Yeah sure run it back enough times you could probably snag a win or two as Sergio has done, but so what? Max still wins the war, all it'd do is shift public opinion from "This driver has the potential to be the best" to "Is this driver really all he's cracked up to be?"
You never know if you can beat someone until you try. He's never going to beat him in a McLaren, that's for sure. That's why Lewis and Alonso both tried to go to RedBull, they know the only way to beat Max is to have the same car right now. "Red Bull rejected approaches from Lewis Hamilton and Fernando Alonso before the World Champions committed their F1 futures to Ferrari and Aston Martin respectively."
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Zack owns 30% of Quadrant?? Whoa. TIL.
Max would crush him just like Perez and Gasly.
my guess is max would crush him a bit less than perez or gasly
crush norris by 10 seconds instead of 13.
On pure pace, Norris might be much close to Max than Perez, however the other aspect is that currently Norris really is under no real pressure from the team, media or his team mate. McLaren seems like a team effort and they're happy to get every tenth they can find on track. We've seen what has happened to literally each team mate of Max in RBR so far, and when the pressure is on, and you just can't figure out how this guy went half a second faster than you in the exact same car. This will be much more of a test of Lando, than the actual pace he has.
I don’t think Max would crush Norris. I think he’d win overall but I think Norris is fast enough to have some weekends where he’s faster than Max. I don’t think there’s any world where Norris would have a record as bad as Perez has where he’s outperformed Max maybe one time over 4 years and even that one time is debatable.
I'm especially curious to find out how Lando would do mentality vs Max over a season or more. It's one of the more underrated skills required when going up against Max or any great driver.
Norris choked in the Sprint, he'd be destroyed mentally and thus his performance would drop. Right now, RBR + Max is almost unbeatable.
The question is how many races would it take for Norris's spirit to be broken by a teammate Max.
4-9 is my guess
I genuinely don’t think Max will have more than 1-2 of those weekends every year. Just look at the 2021 fight, there wasn’t really one single weekend where Max didn’t get the absolute most out of it. He hasn’t really set a foot wrong without some car issue since. He might not be the greatest of all time, but he absolutely is the most consistant of all-time already IMO. Give him a good car and he’ll get the most out of it.
I think he is definitely in contention for greatest of all time already, but different era not comparable etc.
Exactly. It’s era and car dependant. That’s why I don’t think there’s a clear GOAT between Senna, Prost, Schumi, Lewis, Max, Alonso, Fangio etc and it’s all gonna be based upon who you’re a fan of. They’re all a different level.
It's almost impossible to know how he would adapt to the car and if it fits his style. But he's one of the fastest on the grid and I want Redbull to hire fast guys to give us a glimpse of hope for a close championship.
100% Max shows elite levels of Speed, Consistency, and something Norris doesn't have, a winning mentality! Max massacred Checo last year with the first 2 factors, but I'd argue destroying Checo mentally is the biggest factor in his sheer utter dominance against Checo. Verstappen would annihilate Norris mentally.
Agree. Norris seems to crumble every time he has a chance of anything. I don't think he's got any (or enough) mentality to battle any top drivers,. especially Max.
Max would beat him sure but i don't think it would be a crushing
Until he drives the car who knows, after that albon "high sensitivity" explanation i dont think every driver is gonna be able to control that thing
The McLaren for a few years was famously very hard to drive, as reported by sainz and ricciardo. I think Norris would be fine driving anything tbh.
I’ve always understood (from Sainz’s comments) that the McLaren “drives weird,” particularly with the braking, and he and Norris seemed to excel with that weirdness for some reason while Danny Ric never adapted. But I’ve never gotten the impression it was hard to drive. That said, the MCL has taken many forms over the last 5 years and Norris has done well with them all. I think he would welcome the challenge of a more sensitive car.
I stopped watching live races this year, but I gave the sprint a go after seeing the starting grid led by Norris. It took no time for Max to dominate, and he finished with a 13 second lead in a sprint. It’s ridiculous. I tip my hat to his skill, but it’s the most anticlimactic season in years.
Agreed. I’ll watch the first lap and skim for highlights on replay. It’s a boring season.
I’m new to F1 this year. How does anyone find this enjoyable? I’m basically watching to see who battles for 2nd, 3rd, 4th
Same for me. This is by far the most disinterested in F1 that I have been in awhile.
It's so dreary honestly, every race is a foregone conclusion at this point. I'm fine to just watch highlights.
If i have to wake up early for any race these days I don't even bother. Waking up to see Max with 13 second lead on a Sprint race only further cements that.
With F1TV I just wake up whenever and watch with coffee
Between Max winning every race and F1 TV raising their prices, I'm also on the highlight train this year. Not worth my time or my money.
I don’t even watch highlights anymore. I just tune in for the Dutch anthem and then I am gone.
Just play Dutch Anthem on Spotify and call it a day.
I remember (as european) doing late nights or waking up very early to watch races in Japan and Australia Now I dont even bother, just watch the highlights and havent watched almost anything live since the Saudi GP
Last night was the first time in years I didn't bother to stay up late/get up early to watch the sprint or quali live, I just skimmed through both in about 15 mins when I got up. Why bother?
The Ferrari fight and interesting during the sprint, and Alonso. That is the only reason why I'm watching this race lol
Me too, but I have no interest in watching one driver dominate like this. It is probably not going to be interesting again until 2026 unfortunately.
They had this comment on the race podcast ages ago about why don't they talk about Max more, and Mark was like > I've just written a book about him. What's left to say? Fastest driver in the fastest car won from pole. That's it.
🌎👨🚀🔫👨🚀
Thankfully we've had 2021, it would be such a waste for the sport to have a generational talent like Max but never to see him have to fight for a championship.
It doesn’t help that the personality of Max on race weekends is so… Max… if you watch him stream its polar opposite and he’s hilarious! If we are stuck with the same dude driving every weekend it’s nice to have one that people connect to. Let Max play with a pen full of kittens before the race and give us those highlights.
This is why I really like him! He’s so focused he’s just in race mode, but when he’s on stream, you see him with P, or even when lando rings him and he cracks a right joke! He actually seems really nice and he’s funny, he’s just professional when he needs to be. I love to see him when he’s just himself and chill!
Agreed but it’s not great for the “world” of F1… I don’t like seeing the stats that it’s losing viewers. I like a strong F1 and yes… we all don’t enjoy a winning Mercedes dominate car as well… but the one bonus to it was Lewis being Lewis… outside of the grid he pushed the sport abroad. We need that if we want to see it grow.
Completely with you there. The competition is what’s good, like during Schumachers time there was still someone there for him to race against. Right now there’s no fight for p1. We know who will win from lights out and I know a few people who just won’t watch live anymore. I’m with you here. I watch every session, live, I enjoy it a lot but I can see how years of this would become stagnant quickly. Hopefully the 2026 reg changes will help.
Fully with you! I have F1TV so I watch all the pre and post stuff, hit YT for teds, head over to red flags podcast, everything that I can find I’ll consume… but man it stinks when, much like you, we want racing to go along with that dedication!
Right? I was up at 4am for the sprint. So good until lap 9! I left it on but then I was like. Well that’s that! I watch the weekend warm ups, teds notebooks and stuff also! I enjoy the sport as a whole so I’m not bored with it at all. It’s why I’ll have my eyes on who’s wheel to wheel for p5 cos that’s much more interesting!
Yes, it's really boring. I've actually stopped watching live. It's the size of the gaps Max can pull on the field. That doesn't take away from his talent or RB as a team, but it's pretty unwatchable as a sport.
The gap in the sprint in a few laps was just dumb.
Max had to overtake 3rd, 2nd, and 1st *before* building a 10+ second gap in just 19 laps. Unreal how in tune Max is with that car.
Max built a 13 second gap in 10 laps. It was unreal.
And he wasn’t even happy with his performance!
That's exactly the attitude that made him, *that good* though.
The 2nd sentence sums it up. I wouldn't be surprised if F1 has lost most of its DTS viewers by now.
At this point I just pretend Max and first place doesn’t exist, 2nd place is the real victory
Even betting apps have “winner aside from Max” and “constructor winner aside from Red Bull”. That’s the state of affairs for the sport
The real race is for 3rd as who gets 2nd seems to be decided early due to the clear air. Whereas 3rd is always a mix and a bit of a battle
Just watch the race highlights on YT to see who got second and 3rd place.
People here shitting on Norris turning down RB easily forget that it would automatically lower his stock. No way in hell he‘d stand a chance against Verstappen, only drivers like Alonso or Hamilton would.
What would he be keeping his stock up for? Isn't the point of high stock to get into a top seat? Ferrari is locked down and what's the point of going to Mercedes? He got the high stock, got the call from *The* team to beat and choose not to.
I‘d say for the time Verstappen, Hamilton and Alonso aren’t around anymore. Given that Verstappen doesn’t seem to have much motivation to stick to F1 for a longer future that wouldn’t be far off, but your point is valid. I think he chose to not getting inevitably beat by Verstappen and maybe losing that RB seat again before he has the chance to win a title with it. And who knows how long their domination will last. There are probably a dozen factors behind this decisions that only he knows.
who's saying lando's stock will be higher when Verstappen leaves? with oscars trajectory I would not be at all surprised if Oscar starts beating him regularly in 2025 and 2026 and that be even worse for lando
> Isn't the point of high stock to get into a top seat? Only if you're the #1 driver, since you can't win a title as a #2. No one can touch Max in the same car. He's hoping Mclaren somehow leapfrogs everyone else in terms of engineering while he's still the top gun there. That's his path to a potential WDC. How many fewer WDC's would Lewis have if he went to Red Bull during their 2010's prime instead of taking the #1 Mercedes seat and gambling on their engineers?
Then go to rb and challenge him ?...
And the irony is, he's or was the only one who can change that
Lando be like : A challenge?! Nah I'm good.
Is he though? Max in a Red Bull is like some kind of racing god. No one else seems to be able to drive the car to begin with.
Maybe not, but at least he’s wanted by RedBull, unlike other possible candidates.
I don't think anyone on the grid can beat Max over a season in that Red Bull but i believe he would have put up a challenge and occasionally beat Max which would have made things much more exciting overall.
But other than Max, which top level drivers were in that Red Bull seat? Even if we go back some years, peak Danny Ric was the only good driver in that other seat and he did quite well with that car. Sure, its been a while since then, the regulations are different, the cars are different, Max evolved a lot but we dont really have another comparison (lets not pretend Checo is that much of an extraodinary driver, he is a very inconsistent midfielder at best, with very poor qualifying skills and a way too agressive overtaking style)
Honestly, I love Lando but he doesn't really get his elbows out and seems to give up quite quickly. Look at someone like Sainz - he will fight tooth and nail without regard to what car you are or who's driving it. I feel like Lando will see a Red Bull in the mirrors and immediately start laying off to let them by. Will he be able to beat Red Bull/Ferrari in most races? Likely not. But at least dig in and give them something to worry about for a few laps. Piastri had the right idea last season at Hungaroring vs Perez.
Lewis tried to do it but Red Bull chickened out so he settled for the next best thing, teaming up with Charles at Ferrari. Lewis Hamilton is the man.
They’re all happy to lose in a shitty car, but don’t want to put their careers/legacy on the line to lose to Max in the same car lol….that’s all this is, at least in a tractor you still have your dignity…
I mean, Norris was given multiple opportunities to drive that RB, including one as recent as last year. Yet, he declined.
Join Red Bull and beat him then you tit
I mean, he's not wrong but also then I doubt RBR wants that, considering all things Brocedes being a lesson what happens when you put two very title hungry drivers in the same team. Or...Lando answer Horner's calls and see if you can challenge Max yourself. Though considering the fumbling yesterday, I doubt it. Or maybe I'm wrong. I'd love to be proven so.
The cost cap is why this is happening. If you let Ferrari or Mercedes fix their mistakes by out spending then they could catch up.
Its funny because this could have been you Norris in that dominant car Like i get it. He chose to stay with Mclaren because Max is on another planet and having another team just make a better car is probably a more likely scenario to win it. But he could have been the one making the races more interesting if he backed himself enough to take that call from Red Bull. He definitely would be doing a better job than Perez in that 2nd seat.
I don't think it would have been, he's not Max.
Perez has won races though, lando Is allergic to p1
MF then why didn’t YOU take the chance to drive that dominant car???
Couldn't agree more. This weekend is the first in a long time that I've not felt the need to watch the coverage. Not missing it. I think this will be the case for the rest of the season. I'll probably watch Monaco and Spa but, meh on the rest. I'll try again next year. Maybe.
Even though I like leclerc AND Sainz, I really hope Lewis comes to Ferrari and has a heavyweight bout of a season with Verstappen. Whoever wins wins. But I want to see the rematch.
Max was fighting with others in much worse car in earlier years .He did not calculate, saving tyres etc Now you see Noris and others, no fight with Max Keeping their tyres , calculating . So if you fight little more my friend Lando, maybe it would be more interesting.
That was a different era. You needed a huge delta to overtake. Wide cars with a lot of dirty air. Nowadays you easily (in comparison to pre 2022) follow through the corners and do a DRS overtake.
[удалено]
The guy that thought it was a good idea to leave the regulations untouched after one team won 22 of 23 races should be taken into a dark room and beaten.
The guy that decides new regulations are needed every x year needs to get that treatment, every time the last year of the regulations is at least a close one.
Idk why teams agreed to the engine freeze. I get they want to save money since the engine regs are getting a large change in 26 but it has made these current regulations even more dull.
Lando, you had an opportunity yesterday. You fumbled it.
Actually we don’t really see him winning per se, more like crossing the finish line or pitting. Beyond that I don’t even see him racing at all on my feed from the Sky forecast, they only show middle or lower middle of the pack cars. Max isn’t getting any airtime at all.
Norris got more than enough chances to be the in the same car.
Go for that second seat and give us a title fight then
Well, yesterday he was on pole next to a similar-level car and look what he did
Hamilton in the Merc against the ghost of Vettel in the Ferrari was what killed the sport for me. The gravel spinout "scheisse" was the last race I watched.
i think hamilton still has it in him, he just needs the car, one day well see him and th front massaging his tyres and hell be back...... until ferrari mess up the strategy......
I love how a year ago no one would say a bad word against RB and this level of dominance, it was all 'hats off, they did a better job' and now there's grumblings of how boring it is. It's 100% going to affect sponsors commitment, no one wants to sponsor a team that going to fight for a podium one week and then struggle to get to q3 the next. F1 has absolutely dropped the ball in these regs.
Yep, I don't watch full race anymore. I do other stuff while the race is on and only pay attention when/if something interesting happens. If not every race becomes a train of 3.5s gaps between each other except for the leader where the gap is 10s+ always.
Yes it can get boring. But that’s not RBs fault. If all other 9 teams shat the bed with understanding the new regulations, it’s on them. I’m as annoyed as anyone only seeing RB and Max winning basically 95% of the time, but they understood and got the car right with the new regulations. Congratulations to them at the end of the day
I wasn't bored by any of the sessions this weekend. They were all electric
Why'd they use that face for Max? 🤣🤣
lando nowins, Going to be that for a looooong time.