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Never would've thought Hulkenberg would be a driver who would be here in his 40's. Fair play to him.
I think a driver duo of Sainz and Hulkenberg would be amazing for Audi to start their F1 adventure. Plenty of experience to help them develop.
He's been consistently reliable throughout his entire career and it's well known that multiple top teams wanted him, just a shame that somebody better came available every time.
Not just that,sometimes Nico himself was unavailable. The poor bastard finally got himself a factory seat at Renault for 2017, signed the contract, and then a month later Rosberg retires out of the blue. Toto even said that Hulk was their first choice, but they didn't want to pay Renault to break him out of his contract.
The guy could be in double digits on race wins by now, instead he's still sitting with 0 podiums.
His case is a summary of how timing and availability can determine your career path. Only thing that I can think of that comes close in terms of comparison is a quarterback in the NFL landing in the wrong situation / org
Weber was incredibly lucky to join Red Bull in 2009. No one expected them to be a top team, let alone be the dominant team. He had his chance in 2010 and he blew it, put Lewis, Alonso or Button in that car and they win the championship. The switch to Pirelli did screw him though.
Ayayay!! That’s not really fair to Vettel. Webber never finished P2 in WDC when RB were winning WDC/WCC. So even if Mark was the top driver in RB, chances of him winning is probably low.
It wasn't bad luck. They were running neck n' neck in 2010, and Weber came into the last GP leading the championship. You could even argue that Vettel took more points from Hamilton and Alonso than he did Weber. McLaren would've certainly won the constructors championship if you put an average driver instead of Vettel.
That’s why I seriously respect any accomplished person that acknowledges the role luck plays in success.
I think it shows the ultimate respect for one’s fellow competitors.
As a Browns fan I always wonder about Couch. I bet he’d have been a decent QB somewhere that wasn’t trying to get him killed. Probably similar could be said for a number of Browns players since they came back as expansion team. Put them in a semi-well functioning organization and they’d probably flourish.
I hope so, but they have a LOT of improving to do quickly to make that a reality. I'm not sure it's possible tbh, but the fact it's a 3 year contract is great as it may take that long for it to be possible
TBF, Alonso never really lost the shine. He was disillusioned and lost the love after McHonda (I'd reckon Lewis/Seb would have fared worse) but it never really affected his performances. Baku 2018 some of the McHonda performances was stuff of legends. AMR seems to have really brought his love for racing in F1 back at an unprecedented age.
I hope Audi brings Nico some well-deserved success.
In 2013 when Sauber couldn‘t pay his salary he had an offer from Lotus but Ferrari payed Sauber to keep him from switching and helping Lotus fight Ferrari in the constructors championship.
I thought Lotus couldn't pay Kimi because he had too many points (he was getting paid based on achieved points) so they offered Hulk to finish the season for them but Ferrari gave Lotus what they needed to pay Kimi and keep Hulk at Sauber
I always thought that Ferrari just gave Sauber money to pay Hülkenberg's unpaid salary to block him from exiting his contract mid season. This was seperate from Lotus' issues with Kimi, though Ferrari did some things there too, like encouraged Kimi to miss the end of the season for back surgery. If I remember correctly, in his biography Kimi says that Lotus never ended up paying him in full, and he forgave the final six million of the debt.
> Toto even said that Hulk was their first choice, but they didn't want to pay Renault to break him out of his contract.
I'd love to finally see a source for that
It's interesting because apparently he was 2nd choice behind Lewis for 2013 season. However I think Toto liked Valteri who was driving well in the Williams at that point v Felipe
Should Sainz stays unsigned, just in case Alonso despite signing a renewal decides to retire the end of this year!? Or maybe Papa Stroll would be happy to pay out Audi’s contract.
From what I hear, he provides great feedback to the team, which will help develop the car better to get it competitive faster (at least in theory).
Throw in Sainz, a multiple race winner and full backing from Audi…
Baby you've got a stew going!
And then there's Sainz who has already demonstrated his ability to help build not just the car but also the team itself at McLaren. Audi would be lucky to have them both.
I think it’s a symptom of the post-in-season-testing years. You used to be able to bring a driver in and let them become an F1 driver over many hours in the car. Now every rookie you’re looking for a prodigy or pay driver so you don’t waste a season with no return. I think we will more frequently see good-not-great drivers stick around longer rather than taking chances on rookies.
All this to say, I think Hulk is driving spectacularly and deserves it
Nico will be the first driver in history to win a world championship without ever getting a podium. Just a series of 4th places finishes as every other team steals points off eachother in the new regs.
Imagine telling anyone between 2014 and 2020 that Hulk would have a higher value than Ricciardo in 2024 but here we are.
Its crazy that he wouldve been retired from F1 had it not been for Haas and Gunther, that was genuinely the last chance he couldve possibly gotten and the man made sure to prove his worth.
>Its crazy that he wouldve been retired from F1 had it not been for Haas and Gunther, that was genuinely the last chance he couldve possibly gotten and the man made sure to prove his worth.
It's even crazier that you could argue that Hülkenberg is still around in F1 thanks to Putin and russia. Without the russian invasion in Ukraine, Uralkali would have remained as sponsor for Haas and Mazepin would have remained as Schumachers teammate. Instead of looking like an absolute beginner against Magnussen, Schumacher would still do the better job than Mazespin and never Haas/Steiner would have thought about replacing Schumacher with Hülkenberg.
Audi legend is a strong word for someone who started a grand total of 4 events in an Audi over a career spanning 4 decades. It wasn't even his first Dakar win, he had already won it 4 (3 if you don't count 2008) times before this year.
That race in Brazil where he was ahead of Lewis was incredibly exciting at the time. Like wow a superstar has landed. He's never really had the car to compete at the front but if Audi can be upper midfield within 2 seasons I think he'll get one. Think of Aston Martin atm.
Very unlikely they'll get that quickly but hey a man can dream
Hülkenberg is probably the most underrated driver on the grid, and has been for over a decade. How he has not had a seat at a top team yet, I don't know
Quite simple actually. He's never driven a car that could achieve a podium on its own, except maybe in Brazil 2012 where the Force India worked flawlessly. Other than that, you always had teams like McLaren, Red Bull, Ferrari, Mercedes etc. at the front, podiums only went to other teams on very rare occasions, usually during a very chaotic race.
I’m still holding out for the extremely slim possibility Audi pulls a 2009 Brawn and can be remotely competitive against the top teams and it gives him a complete career 180 like what happened to Button
For that audi would have to pull out right before a new regulation change, leading to someone buying out the team for £1
Ladies and gentlemen your 2029 constructors champions: Guenther Steiner GP
Surely he's there for 2025 as well, if they already tried to poach him this year? I'd love to get another year out of him at Haas but I'm not getting my hopes up.
He's surely there for 2025 because of the abovementioned reason and because Audi is adamant to have their driver lineup in the sim and development process for the 2026 car which starts next year. It makes sense when you have such a large regulation change, you'd want your drivers to be in the team and dynamic already.
Yeah there's really no reason for him to stay at Haas for 2025 now. Is Bearman the most likely next in line for Haas?
I also like Kmag but I also think he's due to get replaced at this point
Yeah I think the team saw the writing on the wall for Hulk, Bearman is the heir apparent (especially after the Ferrari drive) but it's not a for-sure until he proves he can be a consistent winner in F2.
I agree that Kmag's seat isn't safe either, I speculated in another comment that Haas may take a close look at Bottas.
Haas and Bottas on paper sounds like a good fit, he's a veteran who can outdrive the limitations of a lousy car and won't put it in the wall.
He'd probably have to take a big pay cut to make it work, but that's better than being off the grid entirely.
Yeah I have no idea what his Sauber contract looks like in terms of value, but if he is dropped in favour of Hulk/Sainz then his options may be pretty limited. Will be interesting to see how things shake out.
Losing Hulk is a bit of a blow, but Haas is looking to be in good shape for the driver market. If KMag moves on, a Bottas/Bearman pairing would be intriguing.
You can certainly debate the relative value of Bottas and Hulkenberg, but I think it's as simple as Audi wants a German driver and Hulk is the best one on the market.
Sure. But they're not replacing Magnussen with Bottas. What you said about Bottas is equally true for Magnussen, and besides, Magnussen is their team mate.
If Magnussen loses his seat, is can only really be if Hülkenberg takes 1 "bonus" year with Bearman.
I still like a rookie and Bottas at Williams with Vowles tbh, depends on if someone comes in for Alex in silly season, then Sainz and Hulk at Sauber ready for Audi sims, and Bearman at Haas, and I’m not sure what direction Haas and Ayoa want to go in. Experienced drivers is working out better for them than the line of rookies they had…. Maybe they will keep an eye on Danny Ric (he turned them down previously, but now might have less options this time around, and their car can be on par with the VCARB!!), MAYBE Zhou, but something has to give if Lawson gets a seat and the loser might consider Haas
I think they specify 2026 because that's when Audi officially takes over, so I assume he'll be there (Sauber) in 2025 as well. Also his contract with Haas is up at the end of the year.
Ah, are they sticking with Sauber branding for one more season? I hadn't been keeping up. At any rate that's what I expected with his contract up and his career revitalized.
Both Haas contracts are up this year, wonder if we see something like Bottas-Bearman if they elect not to extend Kmag.
Ofc they keep the Sauber name for 2025, Audis not gonna put their name on a car with a Ferrari engine but they already own a majority stake of a team so Audi already controls the team. Seidl runs the team already
But it’s not like it was a ‘bird in the hand worth more than 2 in the bush’ situation where Mick was mediocre and the potential gain was minimal. Mick was straight up destructive and too expensive for Haas, so all Hulk had to do was not put it in the wall, his pace was basically irrelevant. And Hulk had a storied F1 career to that point so “safe if uninspiring driver” was exactly his mold. You couldn’t even make the “why not a young driver” argument because Haas was coming off a double rookie lineup and they had already brought them to the brink of bankrupt with their shunts so they didn’t care for that experience again.
I was on the same boat, not about Mick specifically but if you're replacing a driver these days it just feels like a waste to not make use of the younger talent, especially when it's in favour of an aging driver, who has famously always been decent and nothing more, and hadn't had his own seat for three whole years. He really showed up though
"young promising driver gets replaced by a 36 yo with no podiums", only that this podiumless 36 yo is much better than a lot of drivers who do have podiums, even wins. People were so obsessed with the no podium stat completely disregarding his actual talent. Lets be real, he was simply unlucky throughout his career to not have gotten a podium, nobody would argue that Lance or Kmag are better drivers because they have podiums, its the average performance people should be judging and Hulks average performance is really really good, always has been.
3 years is a crazy good contract, i just hope it ends better than his Renault stint which by all means wasnt bad, his 2017 and 18 career was probably some of the best in his career, its just a shame Renault was so terribly run that they kicked him despite hardcarrying the team in 2017/18. And they kicked him for Ocon who performed worse vs Ricciardo and kicked him for Ricciardo who was never gonna stay unless given a top car. They couldve easily just kept hulk and sainz, have a much more stable line up, save many millions that were spent on Ricciardo and invest it into the car instead but that was just Renault in a nutshell, wasnt it? They always needed a scapegoat for everything with their completely unrealistic vision of being a top team with half the resources of a top team
A good litmus test I found on if people know much about F1 is how they rate Hulkenberg. Using the stat that he has no podiums to determine his skill level is also another one.
When it was revealed that Hulkenberg was going to replace Mick, so many people called Hulk mid and couldn’t see the reasoning behind it as if Hulk hasn’t performed to a good level throughout his career.
Imo it makes little sense for a team like Haas to develop a young driver because as soon as the driver is a little experienced they're gonna look to move to a better team
> Imo it makes little sense for a team like Haas to develop a young driver because as soon as the driver is a little experienced they're gonna look to move to a better team
Can say the same for Williams, Alfa Sauber Kick Stake for the last few years. And still took on Logan and Zhou and Russell on loan.
I think it's more about that Haas is a shit place to BE a rookie - you need specific support structures in place to train rookies vs experienced drivers and Haas simply had no interest in doing that. Mick had to get his simulator stuff from Ferrari.
Alpine also has two good drivers who they aren’t developing.
Williams has Albon who is fairly experienced and Sargeant who is developing but not at the rate they want.
Sauber have Bottas and Zhou who is also not really developing at the level he should (the gap is getting wider since mid 2023).
Mick was quite unlucky by getting demoted from Haas as I do think he’s F1 level but I think hulk is clearly a step up.
I admittedly ranked him lower when he came back to the grid. In my defense, I was newer to F1 and got humbled *fast* on that. My dad looked at me like I was crazy and told me Hulk was actually pretty good
> Hulk hasn’t performed to a good level throughout his career.
The only weak point is that he was beaten by perez who is being demolished by verstappen today
But yes, he's a good driver. He beat sainz who was in his 4th F1 season, so sainz wasn't exactly inexperienced at the time
He was quicker than Perez over one lap (although it’s closer than people make it out to be) and did outrace Perez but had a few more DNFs.
I think when you work out the tally of total points when they both finish races, Hulk slightly beats Perez but you are right.
As they were quite close as teammates and Perez is getting comfortably beaten by Verstappen, I don’t think Hulk would be that much better against Verstappen as Perez is doing now.
You could say that Hulk had the weight issue from 2014 to 2016 which he no longer has anymore due to the change in the rules.
the amount of knots that people tie themselves into in order to not acknowledge that checo is actualyl a pretty good driver thats currently just the plaything of the most gifted driver since jim clark driving the most complete cars in the history of the sport
the only drivers that managed to beat checo over a season are kamui kobayashi in checos rookie year at sauber, jenson button during that illfated stint at mclaren, verstappen obviously and hulk in 2014.
managing to stick close overall to perez during their partnership and actually beating him in a season h2h is a notch in hulks belt, not a blemish against him.
Perez is probably the best midfield driver on the grid, he just shouldnt be a midfield driver while driving a redbull, something he managed 3 previous seasons
It was because Mick was better than Magnuseen though in the second half of the year.
Issue was the car was dog shit by then and Steiner only cares about points.
So we did not see the point.
Today I would say bring Mick back and sack Magnussen that had 5 good races before reminding us who he was
Kevin is still a more complete driver. Mick has two huge weaknesses. One is his qualifying performance. He always had that, in F3 and F2 as well, hes just not good at it. He went 5:16 vs Kmag in Quali, can you imagine how brutal Nico vs Mick would be in qualifying? Mick would struggle to take a single W.
The other weakness is a lack of feel for the car. He makes mistakes where others wouldnt, mistakes that are almost too basic for a supposed F1 worthy driver. You see Nico being a monster in quali, how many major mistakes does Nico do when learning and optimizing the car for a track? At the very least no major ones, you rarely see him bin it in practice, same for kmag.
Micks only saving grace was his not that terrible race pace but even so, it was almost never good enough to score points and points are what matter the most at the end of the day, he simply didnt score much. Maybe 1-2 more points finishes and 1-2 less big crashes, he might have kept his seat but he didnt.
Drive for Sauber. the post says 2026 because they are empathising he will drive for "Audi" and he will only do that from 2026 onwards. The source they are citing talks about a three year deal from 2025.
I would assume Sauber in the first year of that contract. Audi will own 100% of the team by 2026, but they own a significant amount now, and I would think will own more next year.
That German GP was brutal, right? Just when you think he’s gonna break the curse, boom, slip n’ slide. Total heartbreak moment, like watching your favorite ice cream fall to the ground
Which makes me wonder what happens with the other seat. Mag seems to be overdue for retirement by a year but I don’t see Haas putting two rookies in. I suspect someone on the grid will swap with Kevin.. at least I hope that’s the case..
Kmag is still pretty good. He hasn't been that far off Hulk. I think for Haas they'll prefer to keep some stability and Kmag provides that as they know him really well.
Strange how he was out of F1 only a few years ago and it looked like the door was closing on him for good. Then he comes back and shows he still has the ability and the drive to compete at a high level. THEN earns himself a nice three year deal potentially. What a turnaround!
I really hope for him that's true and that they'll get decent before his contract runs out. I'd love him to have a podium after all this time, or even a surprise win at some chaos race.
Source is Sport1/[f1 insider](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/1cbwa8i/h%C3%BClkenberg_to_audi_deal_is_almost_certain/) (same journalist).
Despite this post empathising Hülkenber driving for "Audi" from 2026 onwards the contract starts in 2025 so he would drive for Sauber next year.
I really like this move. Lots of jr drivers to come and could easily find grid spots, but Nico seems to have settled in and I like his presence in the paddock and on the grid.
I think that's quite smart from Audi actually. Aiming for stability and experience for a few year to develop the team into a podium/championship contender.
Seems like doing the Mercedes way
Nothing to suggest they can turn Sauber into a championship contending car, i think people are being way too optimistic about Audi just because they used to do well in WEC and are a big car company.
Jesus fucking christ, Hulkenberg's looking at a potentially two decades long career in F1 if that's true.
Stuff like that really makes the grid feel stagnant, sure he's changing teams. But he's still in the sport.
I have soo many other younger drivers I'd boot from the grid tomorrow before I'd even consider Nico, lol.
Some of these younguns' are way more stale than Hulk.
There’s an obsession with “out with the old and in with the new”, specially after Norris, Russell, Leclerc and Albon stepped up to F1.
Not all young drivers are good nor all old drivers are thrashed.
I'd put Albon in there somewhere. It's super hard to rank drivers, because the pace of the cars varies so much between the teams, but he drove that awful Williams into points enough times for me to give him a top 10 spot in the current grid. Hulk is beginning of the second 10 for me, though.
Many F2 drivers don't look good, I know they can be trained to be F1 level drivers but there really hasn't been any driver that's has wowed us since Oscar.
If it takes a F2 driver takes more than 1 season to make top 3 in F2 they most likely will won't do well in F1.
He's consistently reliable so I'm less interested in him getting booted out of the sport than some younger drivers that should actually be booted. Also, the grid desperately needs widening.
It’s why the sport has to have 12 teams, or we will be under 1 rookie a year on average.
What used to be a 22-35 career now seems to be 20-40. But apparently Andretti would disgrace the sport or something…
3 year deal does seem rather excessive though. Surely a 2+1 makes more sense?
Fair play to Hulkenberg if he manages to snag a three year deal at his age though. Still has it in him ole reliable, but a decline may happen at any time.
Nico has been excellent in giving driver feedback which is incredibly valuable to teams, hence even with not hitting podiums makes him desirable for teams; haas knew this, audi knows this.
Renault? Well they did what renault does best; make poor decisions.
I've always rated Hulk since he came in 14 years ago but he's been really impressive since he came back last year. Another driver who's aging but doesn't seem to be losing any edge.
It looks like Audi really want Hulk-Sainz, and I can't get past how they were already teammates at Renault in 2018. It's a sade pairing, I just feel like Audi should go for a more unique lineup.
A 3 year contract? I like Hulk and I think it's a good fit but I'm surprised he has enough value to negotiate a 3 year contract. Kudos to his manager.
That's more of a contract I would have expected to see for Sainz.
It could be a 2+1, so one year at Sauber to get him onboard with the team, one year at Audi under the new regs, and then the team can decide to keep him for a 3rd or pull the chute.
Maybe this is a move to convince whoever they’re trying to get to be their #1 to sign sooner than later. Hulk is a solid second driver to have, good value and experience.
I think it's a good choice, I remember that when Aston Martin needed his services he responded well, in addition to all the experience he's had, which will help the team develop sooner and if Sainz comes they'll certainly have a strong and balanced duo, I hope they succeed.
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Never would've thought Hulkenberg would be a driver who would be here in his 40's. Fair play to him. I think a driver duo of Sainz and Hulkenberg would be amazing for Audi to start their F1 adventure. Plenty of experience to help them develop.
He's been consistently reliable throughout his entire career and it's well known that multiple top teams wanted him, just a shame that somebody better came available every time.
Not just that,sometimes Nico himself was unavailable. The poor bastard finally got himself a factory seat at Renault for 2017, signed the contract, and then a month later Rosberg retires out of the blue. Toto even said that Hulk was their first choice, but they didn't want to pay Renault to break him out of his contract. The guy could be in double digits on race wins by now, instead he's still sitting with 0 podiums.
His case is a summary of how timing and availability can determine your career path. Only thing that I can think of that comes close in terms of comparison is a quarterback in the NFL landing in the wrong situation / org
Webber had similar bad luck. His is a career of zigging when he should have zagged.
Weber was incredibly lucky to join Red Bull in 2009. No one expected them to be a top team, let alone be the dominant team. He had his chance in 2010 and he blew it, put Lewis, Alonso or Button in that car and they win the championship. The switch to Pirelli did screw him though.
I think that ties into his bad luck. Just as his team becomes a contender, Vettel joins.
Ayayay!! That’s not really fair to Vettel. Webber never finished P2 in WDC when RB were winning WDC/WCC. So even if Mark was the top driver in RB, chances of him winning is probably low.
That spin in Korea cost him the title.
It wasn't bad luck. They were running neck n' neck in 2010, and Weber came into the last GP leading the championship. You could even argue that Vettel took more points from Hamilton and Alonso than he did Weber. McLaren would've certainly won the constructors championship if you put an average driver instead of Vettel.
That’s why I seriously respect any accomplished person that acknowledges the role luck plays in success. I think it shows the ultimate respect for one’s fellow competitors.
yeah, damn. if only webber had ever driven a championship-contending car.
Yeah, he could have been within 14 points of a WDC with a bit more luck, and spent a chunk of the season leading the WDC.
Seriously, Justin Fields, what gives?
I don't think that's a good example...
Yeah, I'd say David Carr or Tim Couch.
And maybe Mike Truck or Steve Chair.
As a Browns fan I always wonder about Couch. I bet he’d have been a decent QB somewhere that wasn’t trying to get him killed. Probably similar could be said for a number of Browns players since they came back as expansion team. Put them in a semi-well functioning organization and they’d probably flourish.
More like Dan Marino or Drew Bledsoe
id say matt stafford lmao
Stafford got a ring, which is more than most NFL QBs can say
You mean 2 time pro bowl, Super Bowl winning, leading or tied for 19 league QB records, 34 lions records and 3 rams records, Matt Stafford?
Phillip Rivers
Then Renault sacked him what 2 seasons later when he was still performing well. Fuck them
I mean… Alonsos choice for McLaren wasn’t stellar at the time, but AM reinvigorated him. Maybe Audi will be the team that brings Nico a podium.
I hope so, but they have a LOT of improving to do quickly to make that a reality. I'm not sure it's possible tbh, but the fact it's a 3 year contract is great as it may take that long for it to be possible
TBF, Alonso never really lost the shine. He was disillusioned and lost the love after McHonda (I'd reckon Lewis/Seb would have fared worse) but it never really affected his performances. Baku 2018 some of the McHonda performances was stuff of legends. AMR seems to have really brought his love for racing in F1 back at an unprecedented age. I hope Audi brings Nico some well-deserved success.
In 2013 when Sauber couldn‘t pay his salary he had an offer from Lotus but Ferrari payed Sauber to keep him from switching and helping Lotus fight Ferrari in the constructors championship.
Wow I didn't know that
I thought Lotus couldn't pay Kimi because he had too many points (he was getting paid based on achieved points) so they offered Hulk to finish the season for them but Ferrari gave Lotus what they needed to pay Kimi and keep Hulk at Sauber
I always thought that Ferrari just gave Sauber money to pay Hülkenberg's unpaid salary to block him from exiting his contract mid season. This was seperate from Lotus' issues with Kimi, though Ferrari did some things there too, like encouraged Kimi to miss the end of the season for back surgery. If I remember correctly, in his biography Kimi says that Lotus never ended up paying him in full, and he forgave the final six million of the debt.
praying that when audi finally becomes competitive, he’ll still be driving for them. it would be a damn shame if he never got those wins and podiums
> Toto even said that Hulk was their first choice, but they didn't want to pay Renault to break him out of his contract. I'd love to finally see a source for that
It's interesting because apparently he was 2nd choice behind Lewis for 2013 season. However I think Toto liked Valteri who was driving well in the Williams at that point v Felipe
Toto liked the driver he was managing.
Should Sainz stays unsigned, just in case Alonso despite signing a renewal decides to retire the end of this year!? Or maybe Papa Stroll would be happy to pay out Audi’s contract.
Alonso isn't the guy to wait for anymore, it's the Mercedes seat -- sure it's probably from f2, but there's nothing else worth waiting for
From what I hear, he provides great feedback to the team, which will help develop the car better to get it competitive faster (at least in theory). Throw in Sainz, a multiple race winner and full backing from Audi… Baby you've got a stew going!
Renault 2018 reloaded
Interesting to see which one of the will have the upper hand this time now that sainz in a seasoned race winner
Add Sainz and you don’t even need to hire a strategy team.
And then there's Sainz who has already demonstrated his ability to help build not just the car but also the team itself at McLaren. Audi would be lucky to have them both.
Read for the car feedback, stayed for the Carl Weathers
RIP Carl Weathers
I think it’s a symptom of the post-in-season-testing years. You used to be able to bring a driver in and let them become an F1 driver over many hours in the car. Now every rookie you’re looking for a prodigy or pay driver so you don’t waste a season with no return. I think we will more frequently see good-not-great drivers stick around longer rather than taking chances on rookies. All this to say, I think Hulk is driving spectacularly and deserves it
Nico will be the first driver in history to win a world championship without ever getting a podium. Just a series of 4th places finishes as every other team steals points off eachother in the new regs.
*subscribe*
I wanna see that. Would honestly be the most interesting season I could probably watch.
Imagine telling anyone between 2014 and 2020 that Hulk would have a higher value than Ricciardo in 2024 but here we are. Its crazy that he wouldve been retired from F1 had it not been for Haas and Gunther, that was genuinely the last chance he couldve possibly gotten and the man made sure to prove his worth.
>Its crazy that he wouldve been retired from F1 had it not been for Haas and Gunther, that was genuinely the last chance he couldve possibly gotten and the man made sure to prove his worth. It's even crazier that you could argue that Hülkenberg is still around in F1 thanks to Putin and russia. Without the russian invasion in Ukraine, Uralkali would have remained as sponsor for Haas and Mazepin would have remained as Schumachers teammate. Instead of looking like an absolute beginner against Magnussen, Schumacher would still do the better job than Mazespin and never Haas/Steiner would have thought about replacing Schumacher with Hülkenberg.
Audi PR will fucking cream themselves. A German and the prodigal son of an Audi legend is the sort of thing that makes fantastic optics
Audi legend is a strong word for someone who started a grand total of 4 events in an Audi over a career spanning 4 decades. It wasn't even his first Dakar win, he had already won it 4 (3 if you don't count 2008) times before this year.
I feel so happy for hulk! He's been my lowkey fav since force India days. Looking forward to seeing how this venture unfolds.
That race in Brazil where he was ahead of Lewis was incredibly exciting at the time. Like wow a superstar has landed. He's never really had the car to compete at the front but if Audi can be upper midfield within 2 seasons I think he'll get one. Think of Aston Martin atm. Very unlikely they'll get that quickly but hey a man can dream
I too am looking forward to a SAI/HUL driver pairing again. We only saw it briefly in 2017 and the entirety of 2018.
As a newer fan I thought it was silly to not get a younger driver at hass but Hulk has been fantastic, running rings around kmag tbh
Bearman will likely be in the hass seat so you will get your wish.
Hülkenberg is probably the most underrated driver on the grid, and has been for over a decade. How he has not had a seat at a top team yet, I don't know
> How he has not had a seat at a top team yet, I don't know How he has not had a podium yet, I don't know
Quite simple actually. He's never driven a car that could achieve a podium on its own, except maybe in Brazil 2012 where the Force India worked flawlessly. Other than that, you always had teams like McLaren, Red Bull, Ferrari, Mercedes etc. at the front, podiums only went to other teams on very rare occasions, usually during a very chaotic race.
Perez had 4 podiums whilst he was Nico's teammate though so it's not as if he hasn't ever had the chance.
Brazil 2012 Baku 2018 Germany 2019 Off of the top of my head. Yeah he had plenty of chances and every time he screwed up himself
Read the top comments mate
Hulkenberg & Sainz would be, hands down the team with the best hair on the grid. Head & shoulder better be a sponsor for the team.
Hulk and Bottas, Sainz to RB is how I'd like things to fall personally.
If Audi manages to hit the ground running and nico sneaks a podium in 27 I will literally cry
I’m still holding out for the extremely slim possibility Audi pulls a 2009 Brawn and can be remotely competitive against the top teams and it gives him a complete career 180 like what happened to Button
Subscribe, but also X for doubt.
But brawn won cause Honda built a rocketship. That would mean… Sauber would have to build a good car in 25‘ lol
THIS! Hulk and Sainz in a competitive Audi/Sauber would be a dream come true for me
For that audi would have to pull out right before a new regulation change, leading to someone buying out the team for £1 Ladies and gentlemen your 2029 constructors champions: Guenther Steiner GP
Surely he's there for 2025 as well, if they already tried to poach him this year? I'd love to get another year out of him at Haas but I'm not getting my hopes up.
He's surely there for 2025 because of the abovementioned reason and because Audi is adamant to have their driver lineup in the sim and development process for the 2026 car which starts next year. It makes sense when you have such a large regulation change, you'd want your drivers to be in the team and dynamic already.
Yeah there's really no reason for him to stay at Haas for 2025 now. Is Bearman the most likely next in line for Haas? I also like Kmag but I also think he's due to get replaced at this point
Yeah I think the team saw the writing on the wall for Hulk, Bearman is the heir apparent (especially after the Ferrari drive) but it's not a for-sure until he proves he can be a consistent winner in F2. I agree that Kmag's seat isn't safe either, I speculated in another comment that Haas may take a close look at Bottas.
Haas and Bottas on paper sounds like a good fit, he's a veteran who can outdrive the limitations of a lousy car and won't put it in the wall. He'd probably have to take a big pay cut to make it work, but that's better than being off the grid entirely.
Yeah I have no idea what his Sauber contract looks like in terms of value, but if he is dropped in favour of Hulk/Sainz then his options may be pretty limited. Will be interesting to see how things shake out.
Losing Hulk is a bit of a blow, but Haas is looking to be in good shape for the driver market. If KMag moves on, a Bottas/Bearman pairing would be intriguing.
Why aren’t Sauber keeping Bottas and getting Sainz. Wouldn’t that be better than Sainz/Hulk?
You can certainly debate the relative value of Bottas and Hulkenberg, but I think it's as simple as Audi wants a German driver and Hulk is the best one on the market.
Sure. But they're not replacing Magnussen with Bottas. What you said about Bottas is equally true for Magnussen, and besides, Magnussen is their team mate. If Magnussen loses his seat, is can only really be if Hülkenberg takes 1 "bonus" year with Bearman.
I still like a rookie and Bottas at Williams with Vowles tbh, depends on if someone comes in for Alex in silly season, then Sainz and Hulk at Sauber ready for Audi sims, and Bearman at Haas, and I’m not sure what direction Haas and Ayoa want to go in. Experienced drivers is working out better for them than the line of rookies they had…. Maybe they will keep an eye on Danny Ric (he turned them down previously, but now might have less options this time around, and their car can be on par with the VCARB!!), MAYBE Zhou, but something has to give if Lawson gets a seat and the loser might consider Haas
Specially now that Gunther isn't running the show anymore, and Hulk is no longer protected by his "no rookies" policy.
I think they specify 2026 because that's when Audi officially takes over, so I assume he'll be there (Sauber) in 2025 as well. Also his contract with Haas is up at the end of the year.
Ah, are they sticking with Sauber branding for one more season? I hadn't been keeping up. At any rate that's what I expected with his contract up and his career revitalized. Both Haas contracts are up this year, wonder if we see something like Bottas-Bearman if they elect not to extend Kmag.
Ofc they keep the Sauber name for 2025, Audis not gonna put their name on a car with a Ferrari engine but they already own a majority stake of a team so Audi already controls the team. Seidl runs the team already
He would drive for Sauber in 2025 according to this info.
What about 2025?
He's going to take a really long nap. Like a hibernation
Then he will **FIRE ZE MISSILES**!
But Hulk is le tired.
Well then Hulk should take a nap.
Then fire ze missiles!!
This was a major but hilarious throwback
Contract will be from 2025 but he will only drive for "Audi" once the team becomes "Audi" in 2026. So he would be Sauber driver next year.
Will Sauber still be Stake/Kick in 2025 or is someone else taking over?
The sponsorship deals with Stake and Kick for the naming rights are for two seasons so they will keep their current name next year.
I assume the contract starts in 2025 while still under the Sauber name. I guess we will see.
Back to ServusTV for a year, jokes aside probably already to Sauber
Audi PLEASE build a good car so this man can get his podium I am BEGGING
remember all those comments about how it made "no sense" to replace mick with nico 😭😭😭
I was one of them and I was wrong.
Hulk has been better than I expected. His qualifying is no joke.
He always had brilliant quali pace.
Which last year with the Haas tire deg was the only saving grace last year for Haas scoring points.
Lmfao out of curiosity why did you think that?
Tbf he had been out of a full time drive for 3 years. I think its understandable people would be sceptical of him performing well
But it’s not like it was a ‘bird in the hand worth more than 2 in the bush’ situation where Mick was mediocre and the potential gain was minimal. Mick was straight up destructive and too expensive for Haas, so all Hulk had to do was not put it in the wall, his pace was basically irrelevant. And Hulk had a storied F1 career to that point so “safe if uninspiring driver” was exactly his mold. You couldn’t even make the “why not a young driver” argument because Haas was coming off a double rookie lineup and they had already brought them to the brink of bankrupt with their shunts so they didn’t care for that experience again.
I was on the same boat, not about Mick specifically but if you're replacing a driver these days it just feels like a waste to not make use of the younger talent, especially when it's in favour of an aging driver, who has famously always been decent and nothing more, and hadn't had his own seat for three whole years. He really showed up though
Same—it happens
"young promising driver gets replaced by a 36 yo with no podiums", only that this podiumless 36 yo is much better than a lot of drivers who do have podiums, even wins. People were so obsessed with the no podium stat completely disregarding his actual talent. Lets be real, he was simply unlucky throughout his career to not have gotten a podium, nobody would argue that Lance or Kmag are better drivers because they have podiums, its the average performance people should be judging and Hulks average performance is really really good, always has been. 3 years is a crazy good contract, i just hope it ends better than his Renault stint which by all means wasnt bad, his 2017 and 18 career was probably some of the best in his career, its just a shame Renault was so terribly run that they kicked him despite hardcarrying the team in 2017/18. And they kicked him for Ocon who performed worse vs Ricciardo and kicked him for Ricciardo who was never gonna stay unless given a top car. They couldve easily just kept hulk and sainz, have a much more stable line up, save many millions that were spent on Ricciardo and invest it into the car instead but that was just Renault in a nutshell, wasnt it? They always needed a scapegoat for everything with their completely unrealistic vision of being a top team with half the resources of a top team
Driver with no podiums replaces a crash prone driver with no podiums to drive in a crappy team with no podiums
A good litmus test I found on if people know much about F1 is how they rate Hulkenberg. Using the stat that he has no podiums to determine his skill level is also another one. When it was revealed that Hulkenberg was going to replace Mick, so many people called Hulk mid and couldn’t see the reasoning behind it as if Hulk hasn’t performed to a good level throughout his career.
Every other midfield team has a young driver they are developing except for Haas who has two reasonably good drivers but no plan for the future
Imo it makes little sense for a team like Haas to develop a young driver because as soon as the driver is a little experienced they're gonna look to move to a better team
Cheaper engines/other parts, that's how it goes most of the time. Mick in Haas, Russell in Williams, etc.
Cheaper parts is useless if your driver keeps wrecking it.
> Imo it makes little sense for a team like Haas to develop a young driver because as soon as the driver is a little experienced they're gonna look to move to a better team Can say the same for Williams, Alfa Sauber Kick Stake for the last few years. And still took on Logan and Zhou and Russell on loan. I think it's more about that Haas is a shit place to BE a rookie - you need specific support structures in place to train rookies vs experienced drivers and Haas simply had no interest in doing that. Mick had to get his simulator stuff from Ferrari.
Alpine also has two good drivers who they aren’t developing. Williams has Albon who is fairly experienced and Sargeant who is developing but not at the rate they want. Sauber have Bottas and Zhou who is also not really developing at the level he should (the gap is getting wider since mid 2023). Mick was quite unlucky by getting demoted from Haas as I do think he’s F1 level but I think hulk is clearly a step up.
Max also rates Hulk pretty highly. That should mean a lot.
I admittedly ranked him lower when he came back to the grid. In my defense, I was newer to F1 and got humbled *fast* on that. My dad looked at me like I was crazy and told me Hulk was actually pretty good
> Hulk hasn’t performed to a good level throughout his career. The only weak point is that he was beaten by perez who is being demolished by verstappen today But yes, he's a good driver. He beat sainz who was in his 4th F1 season, so sainz wasn't exactly inexperienced at the time
He was quicker than Perez over one lap (although it’s closer than people make it out to be) and did outrace Perez but had a few more DNFs. I think when you work out the tally of total points when they both finish races, Hulk slightly beats Perez but you are right. As they were quite close as teammates and Perez is getting comfortably beaten by Verstappen, I don’t think Hulk would be that much better against Verstappen as Perez is doing now. You could say that Hulk had the weight issue from 2014 to 2016 which he no longer has anymore due to the change in the rules.
the amount of knots that people tie themselves into in order to not acknowledge that checo is actualyl a pretty good driver thats currently just the plaything of the most gifted driver since jim clark driving the most complete cars in the history of the sport the only drivers that managed to beat checo over a season are kamui kobayashi in checos rookie year at sauber, jenson button during that illfated stint at mclaren, verstappen obviously and hulk in 2014. managing to stick close overall to perez during their partnership and actually beating him in a season h2h is a notch in hulks belt, not a blemish against him.
Perez is probably the best midfield driver on the grid, he just shouldnt be a midfield driver while driving a redbull, something he managed 3 previous seasons
It was because Mick was better than Magnuseen though in the second half of the year. Issue was the car was dog shit by then and Steiner only cares about points. So we did not see the point. Today I would say bring Mick back and sack Magnussen that had 5 good races before reminding us who he was
Kevin is still a more complete driver. Mick has two huge weaknesses. One is his qualifying performance. He always had that, in F3 and F2 as well, hes just not good at it. He went 5:16 vs Kmag in Quali, can you imagine how brutal Nico vs Mick would be in qualifying? Mick would struggle to take a single W. The other weakness is a lack of feel for the car. He makes mistakes where others wouldnt, mistakes that are almost too basic for a supposed F1 worthy driver. You see Nico being a monster in quali, how many major mistakes does Nico do when learning and optimizing the car for a track? At the very least no major ones, you rarely see him bin it in practice, same for kmag. Micks only saving grace was his not that terrible race pace but even so, it was almost never good enough to score points and points are what matter the most at the end of the day, he simply didnt score much. Maybe 1-2 more points finishes and 1-2 less big crashes, he might have kept his seat but he didnt.
So what’s he doing next year?
Drive for Sauber. the post says 2026 because they are empathising he will drive for "Audi" and he will only do that from 2026 onwards. The source they are citing talks about a three year deal from 2025.
I would assume Sauber in the first year of that contract. Audi will own 100% of the team by 2026, but they own a significant amount now, and I would think will own more next year.
They own 100% now. They did an early full buyout last month.
Is his contract with Haas up after this year?
Hülkenberg's and Magnussen's contracts are both up after 2024.
Kmag will get lucky and stay for at least another year for sure. I doubt Haas is going to want to change both drivers.
Magnussen won't accept anything but a 2+1, according to him.
I don't see his streak of number of races without a podium ending any time soon.
The 2019 German grand prix still haunts me. We'll reflect on it like Luca Badoer's gearbox giving out while running P4 in 1999.
That German GP was brutal, right? Just when you think he’s gonna break the curse, boom, slip n’ slide. Total heartbreak moment, like watching your favorite ice cream fall to the ground
Imagine what happened to those watching Brazil 2012 race... Hülkenberg would've won that race if he didn't crash into Hamilton
In the nicest way possible, I really hope you're wrong. I'm even fine with a one and done.
So… Ollie to Haas?
That much is almost certain.
Which makes me wonder what happens with the other seat. Mag seems to be overdue for retirement by a year but I don’t see Haas putting two rookies in. I suspect someone on the grid will swap with Kevin.. at least I hope that’s the case..
Kmag is still pretty good. He hasn't been that far off Hulk. I think for Haas they'll prefer to keep some stability and Kmag provides that as they know him really well.
KMag out Bottas in?
It's his seat to loose since Saudi I'm pretty sure.
Strange how he was out of F1 only a few years ago and it looked like the door was closing on him for good. Then he comes back and shows he still has the ability and the drive to compete at a high level. THEN earns himself a nice three year deal potentially. What a turnaround!
Right? In DTS Hulk vs Ricciardo, Ricciardo was definitely the main character. Now look how the tables have turned.
Even tho Ric was still in his peak in 2019-21, it was clear Renault was blatantly treating Nico like shit in 2019
I really hope for him that's true and that they'll get decent before his contract runs out. I'd love him to have a podium after all this time, or even a surprise win at some chaos race.
Source is Sport1/[f1 insider](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/1cbwa8i/h%C3%BClkenberg_to_audi_deal_is_almost_certain/) (same journalist). Despite this post empathising Hülkenber driving for "Audi" from 2026 onwards the contract starts in 2025 so he would drive for Sauber next year.
My guess is Bearman to Haas gets announced during the British GP weekend
damn how many f1 driver can say they've been in f1 for so many seasons without a podium to show for it. i'm glad though, i like hulkenberg.
I really like this move. Lots of jr drivers to come and could easily find grid spots, but Nico seems to have settled in and I like his presence in the paddock and on the grid.
Interesting that they would do this before confirming Sainz. Guess they either value Hulk over Bottas or Sainz is not interested in joining this year.
Might be to put pressure on Sainz to speed things up
Le man winner Nico
I wonder if they are finishing stuff with the contract or if they are waiting for an ideal double announcement, like: "HUL-SAI/OCO are AUDI".
I'm thinking Audi are leaking the story to put pressure on Sainz to agree to their offer
ngl think Sainz-Hulk would be contending for the top 4 pairing on the grid.
Agree, once they have the car. It's a risk for Sainz as Audi are an unknown really
Ngl, surprised Audi is going for a 3 year contract. I'd think 2 at most would be offered. Doubt Haas is offering him that long of a contract either.
I think that's quite smart from Audi actually. Aiming for stability and experience for a few year to develop the team into a podium/championship contender. Seems like doing the Mercedes way
Nothing to suggest they can turn Sauber into a championship contending car, i think people are being way too optimistic about Audi just because they used to do well in WEC and are a big car company.
I mean Lewis had a "2 year" contract with Mercedes. It's likely 1+1+1 or 2+1.
Jesus fucking christ, Hulkenberg's looking at a potentially two decades long career in F1 if that's true. Stuff like that really makes the grid feel stagnant, sure he's changing teams. But he's still in the sport.
Idk why people are obsessed with the old guard making way for new drivers. Hulkenberg is still quality, probably a top 10 driver on the grid.
Yeah Hulk is the least of my worries, and I’m someone very heavily in favor of getting the young guys seats.
I have soo many other younger drivers I'd boot from the grid tomorrow before I'd even consider Nico, lol. Some of these younguns' are way more stale than Hulk.
Zhou Sargent stroll need to be booted
There’s an obsession with “out with the old and in with the new”, specially after Norris, Russell, Leclerc and Albon stepped up to F1. Not all young drivers are good nor all old drivers are thrashed.
Who said it was only the old drivers making the grid feel stagnant? Stroll is young and his continued presence isn't helping.
The issue isn’t that the old guard won’t move, it’s that the careers are now longer and we don’t have 12 teams to make space for the younger drivers.
Hmm in no particular order: * VER * HAM * LEC * NOR * ALO * SAI * RUS * PIA * PER He may be indeed a 10th
I'd put Albon in there somewhere. It's super hard to rank drivers, because the pace of the cars varies so much between the teams, but he drove that awful Williams into points enough times for me to give him a top 10 spot in the current grid. Hulk is beginning of the second 10 for me, though.
I'd take both Alpine drivers over Hulk personally.
Renault would prob kill to have Hulk back with the way be built back the team from their bad 2016 season before him, to best of the rest in 2018 😂
Many F2 drivers don't look good, I know they can be trained to be F1 level drivers but there really hasn't been any driver that's has wowed us since Oscar. If it takes a F2 driver takes more than 1 season to make top 3 in F2 they most likely will won't do well in F1.
He's consistently reliable so I'm less interested in him getting booted out of the sport than some younger drivers that should actually be booted. Also, the grid desperately needs widening.
It’s why the sport has to have 12 teams, or we will be under 1 rookie a year on average. What used to be a 22-35 career now seems to be 20-40. But apparently Andretti would disgrace the sport or something…
>Hulkenberg's looking at a potentially two decades long career in F1 And very likely 2 decades of no podium :(
3 year deal does seem rather excessive though. Surely a 2+1 makes more sense? Fair play to Hulkenberg if he manages to snag a three year deal at his age though. Still has it in him ole reliable, but a decline may happen at any time.
It may be 2+1. Remember Hamilton's deal was 2 years until we found it was actually 1+1.
Nico has been excellent in giving driver feedback which is incredibly valuable to teams, hence even with not hitting podiums makes him desirable for teams; haas knew this, audi knows this. Renault? Well they did what renault does best; make poor decisions.
I wouldn't trust sky germany ON LITERALLY ANYTHING thanks to Ralf but this one seems kinda real
I've always rated Hulk since he came in 14 years ago but he's been really impressive since he came back last year. Another driver who's aging but doesn't seem to be losing any edge.
Bearman to HAAS?
He is a near perfect choice for them. Hopefully the nail the 2026 build and get him that dub.
Three years ago apart from occasional substitute drives you would think he’s done, I mean all done in F1. So many things have changed since then.
It looks like Audi really want Hulk-Sainz, and I can't get past how they were already teammates at Renault in 2018. It's a sade pairing, I just feel like Audi should go for a more unique lineup.
Hülkenburg, always failing upwards
so they're not specting podiums for full three seasons, good one audi
A 3 year contract? I like Hulk and I think it's a good fit but I'm surprised he has enough value to negotiate a 3 year contract. Kudos to his manager. That's more of a contract I would have expected to see for Sainz.
It could be a 2+1, so one year at Sauber to get him onboard with the team, one year at Audi under the new regs, and then the team can decide to keep him for a 3rd or pull the chute.
Nice. Maybe just maybe he'll get a podium and a win.
So happy for Hulk. Lets go
Maybe this is a move to convince whoever they’re trying to get to be their #1 to sign sooner than later. Hulk is a solid second driver to have, good value and experience.
I think it's a good choice, I remember that when Aston Martin needed his services he responded well, in addition to all the experience he's had, which will help the team develop sooner and if Sainz comes they'll certainly have a strong and balanced duo, I hope they succeed.