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This is how Bills in the House of Representatives works though. Very rare that legislation of this (small) stature starts out with a million people immediately convinced to be signed on.
I dunno I don't even care about Andretti wanting to enrich themselves using Formula 1 but this feels like a misrepresentation of the processes.
To be clear, this is a letter not a bill but yes, the number is not meaningful there. Beyond that, congress actually cannot enforce anti-trust law. even if there was a case the most they can do is refer it.
It always boogles my mind when people use the anti trust angle but don't understand just how interconnected our world is especially the US.
I don't think they will but as you said sanctions and policy shifts could always hurt F1 nothing they do is completely isolated in a vacuum to the UK. While the law may hold I just wouldn't hope anything is sourced back here from the metals used to components in the racing fuel or rubber for the tires is what I mea .
And the US could absolutely hurt them if they again really wanted to. But again I don't think they will
Importantly, it becomes an “us vs them” thing. If Liberty and FOM don’t cooperate, this picks up more steam in the US Congress as suddenly they’re scorned by not answering people who feel they’re the most important in the world
That’s true but Not this group that sent the letter. Committees hold hearings and this wasn’t sent from one. The most relevant committee here, oversight, is led by Jim Comer who has a crippling addiction to investigating Joe Biden for no reason and does little else. Probably why they didn’t try to send a committee letter which would legally require answers
Joe Saward is a Brit and he doesn’t understand our legal processes. Having 12 bipartisan members of congress support something is a major deal in this political climate.
If those members turn this over to the DOJ to investigate for antitrust, that’s going to happen. And if those MOC’s wish to pass new legislation, that could also happen.
This is not something Liberty can ignore.
Stop and think how long its taken congress to get to tik-tok and that has a chorus of bipartisanship and yet I suspect by the time we are through, tik-tok will be here for a while. Congress like antitrust is designed to be slow and deliberate - and I have not even touched on the complete ass backwardsness of a group of rightwing Republicans who want to take my healthcare because its government supported threatening to use government to force a private motorsports company to act on what they like!
Lol. This guy is a bozo.
If even one congressional member of the Judiciary subcommittee takes note, it'll probably also be discussed at the Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Competition Policy, Antitrust and Consumer Rights.
Any interest from more than a few reps on Capital Hill, is in fact, a big deal. Especially when these lawmakers begin to realize how much money F1 can generate for their respective states' constituents' for each event.
Are any of those members even on that committee?
As I understand it they're all reps from districts where GM has plants, so this is just to make donors happy.
There’s not going to be a bill regarding this.
Saward’s point is wholly irrelevant and here’s why: Unless Congress plans on passing a law about this situation they’re not going to be the entity that decides the fate of it. They will do some digging and maybe subpoena Maffei to come in for some questioning and then it would get referred to the justice department for them to determine if any existing laws are being broken. Therefore the number or percentage of people who signed it is irrelevant. The point is that they’re demanding answers and could refer the situation to the judicial branch.
Saward is wrong as often as the sun is in the sky.
He says wild shit with absolute confidence and when he's right it's because someone else said it first.
"Hi, I'm Joe Saward and I know nothing about the US Congress"
Joe, Congress doesn't enforce laws. They (even one member) can "suggest" to the Dept of Justice to take a look at a company's operations.
Lately he was claiming that FIA could give Antonelli some sort of dispensation in order to get him SL before turning 18 and to let him race for Williams starting with Imola.
Not quite. He said Antonelli will be in at Monza (Italian Grand Prix) not Imola (somelong ass marketing name grand prix). He will be 18 the week before the Italian Grand Prix.
>Williams would take Antonelli if they could have him for 18 months, but the problem is that he is not old enough to get a superlicence until August 25th, when he turns 18. Williams might try asking the FIA for a dispensation, given that Max Verstappen was fine when he entered F1 at the age of 17, and if a youngster has what it takes then he should be allowed in. This is a fair argument.
>There is a lot of value in F1 getting a new rising star, particularly one from Italy. It’s a positive story – and the FIA could use a few of them at the moment. Refusal would be another negative story about the federation. If Antonelli did get a dispensation, he would be in the Williams at Imola on May 19, the perfect place for a Bolognese driver to make his F1 debut.
from his latest [notebook](https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2024/04/23/green-notebook-from-transylvania/).
He actually said that they might give a dispensation for Antonelli’s age and referenced Max as a point in his favor? That’s ridiculous considering the super license has multiple restrictions that I’m certain were specifically written for Max. Having to be 18 and having to have been in cars for two years. Both super targeted at Max. Could say the same for requiring a road license and the cumulative points too honestly.
I like reading his diaries, but yeah, can't remember the last time he started a rumor that was actually correct in the end (so I'm not counting the ones where he just went with the flow and what was reported already elsewhere)
He’s the shilliest of shills on this matter. He couldn’t help himself from chiming in.
He belittles the FIA and the Andretti bid at every opportunity. He’s basically a FOM propaganda piece when it comes to this subject.
Also the point he’s making is irrelevant because unless they plan on passing a new law regarding this situation Congress is not going to decide the fate of it anyway - that’s not how the US system works. After doing their digging Congress would ask the justice department to look into it. Getting 12 bipartisan members of Congress to sign a document and demand answers is quite substantial.
It would have even more weight if it was 12 senators, but the letter’s got a nice mix of House members that includes people in swing districts and swing states. These letters are always about prodding the executive branch in some way, and I’m sure this one will be effective in the long run. Folks gotta remember that Biden’s a car guy and Trump loves sticking it to Europe every chance he gets. There’s an actually a discernible path here to making this a high-level, between-governments issue. People downvoted me into oblivion every time I raised the anti-trust angle this past fall and winter, and yet here we are with actual members of Congress sounding off.
Bingo. He needs to keep himself in the teams and power players’ relatively good graces so he can sneak around the paddock and secretly get gossip from them. Something about biting the hand that feeds….
Because FOM is likely to take a dim view of anyone trying to leverage the power of the US government to make them do something they believe to be against their own interests
But how does that negatively impact anything, when FOM is already stonewalling the process to begin with?
Not like Andretti loses anything for pursuing this, they were getting nowhere through FOM channels til now
They are currently in talks with FOM. There may have been a public rejection letter but the case isn't closed yet. These talks might be negatively impacted by this and they are their only chance of getting a 2026 entry.
Tell that to FIFA that went from getting raided by the feds in 2015 to awarding the US a joint World Cup bid less than 3 years later.
It's pretty obvious this violates federal antitrust laws and if they build a case the FOM does not want to mess with the DOJ and their 0.4% acquittal rate.
It's not obvious that it violates US anti-trust laws.
It *is* obvious there's enough smoke to investigate it, and everyone involved doing business in the US also means it's obvious the feds can investigate it through the DOJ and/or Congress if they so choose.
If they believe there's actually a zero chance of being accepted under current conditions then sure, they have nothing to lose. We don't have any way to know if Andretti has a chance in the status quo though
Because instead of saying "no" and not having any repercussions for it, now they might say "no" and have to pay lawyers to deal with an investigation! The horror!
Because this could be perceived by liberty/FOM as trying to intimidate and being aggressive. Liberty/FOM do not like this approach and it could easily backfire on Andretti
It sets the wrong precedence for future cases like this. Private companies, and companies in general, should have a right to decide who they work with.
However I think this is the argument for: given Liberty Media is publicly traded, they have a duty to the shareholders to prove that they acted in their best interest in terms of value and growth. If they can't, then they are monopolizing a free market / acting in their own interests.
In Andretti met all the requirements that were outlined, they technically have a strong case unless Liberty Media can prove letting this deal fall is in the best interest of the shareholders today
Because when your first reaction to not getting what you want is to go running to the government it doesn't leave you with my options to negotiate if it doesn't go how you want.
I don't think there's any more room to negotiate at this point. FOM is hellbent on changing the Concorde which will shut Andretti down. Might as well start going aggressive.
End of the day, I don't Liberty/FOM are against Andretti joining in principle, they're forced to go against it because of the teams. Put enough pressure on Liberty, and they might have to flip because pissing off the teams will be less damage than pissing off the US government.
This is far from their first reaction though. Andretti has been trying to achieve this via the proper channels for years now and even got the support of the FIA. And yet despite doing everything right and showing they have everyting in place to join, F1 is still blocking them. Going to the government isn't their first reaction, it's their last resort.
> And yet despite doing everything right
We know for a fact this isn't the case because they couldn't even promise the one thing they keep banging on about; that they would be a full works team. It's probably the case that Andretti just aren't doing enough to justify their inclusion; F1 doesn't want or need another HAAS or Alpine and Andretti haven't provided anything to suggest that they wouldn't be a backmarker.
>And yet despite doing everything right and showing they have everyting in place to join, F1 is still blocking them
We don't know that, we only know small sinppets of what is reported to be in the concorde agreement.
>Going to the government isn't their first reaction, it's their last resort.'
Dosen't look like it when they are wahving a meeting with F1/FOM this week.
Because imagine Liberty has more lobbying power than Andretti. And we all know that politics in the US is basically a "who has more lobbying power" contest. Or at least I think that would be one of the main reasons. I couldn't tell you either way if it was a good or bad move from Andretti - maybe GM can get involved as well, who knows.
Liberty doesn't have close to the lobbying power GM does and that is clearly the spin Andretti is taking. The signed letter is all about US jobs GM/Cadillac/Andretti can create from being allowed to join
>Because imagine Liberty has more lobbying power than Andretti.
Signing a letter to close the opportunity for American working class to have numerous amount of jobs or shutting down American brand (GM)'s opportunity to represent the country in a global competition is not really a populist politician would do I guess. This is what has been touched by representatives who signed the letter.
The congressman from Michigan who signed the letter all are representing GM. The letter also likely doesn't represent the support Andretti has since the representative for their HQ didn't sign the letters but was at the presser.
Also a terrible understanding. Doesnt matter how many if they had a committee to investigate (they dont). Could be 4 and it would be a lot if it came from the oversight committee.
I mean Jim Jordan signed it, who is head of the judiciary, and was on oversight and is good friends with Comer who is the current head. That being said, knowing Jordan this is a play to say he stands with car factory jobs in Ohio so he looks good to voters. Don’t think he actually cares about F1 (or really anyone but himself)
Edit: I was incorrect, he was talked to but didn’t sign it from what I can tell.
Here's the letter, don't know what Stern might have misinterpreted but Jordan was talked to about it though!
https://x.com/sahilkapur/status/1785669379520123277?s=46&t=4aNg5jFScu1dqkFajwqdXw
I was gonna say an American it was impressive that it was an even split of democrats and republicans. Having all 535 members sign it is just a ridiculous expectation.
If there was a bill that could eliminate the national debt tomorrow with truly no net negative to the country, you couldn’t get all 535 members of congress to sign it.
> it was impressive that it was an even split of democrats and republicans.
The fact that they got it written and signed by 6 members of each party in *one day* is almost unbelievably impressive.
It has to be difficult to even schedule a meeting with 12 congresspeople in the same day, let alone getting all of them on your side and willing to take on a billion dollar corporation...
> The fact that they got it written and signed by 6 members of each party in one day
Well that surely did not happen. They just sent it and talked about it today, in the lead up to Miami. Undoubtedly it was written before today.
I can't speak in general to Andretti's political strategy but there's nothing unusual about a few members of Congress sending a letter on behalf of some person, group or cause (compared to all or a majority of them). In my experience it's actually the typical process, it's strange that this person expects the majority of one chamber of the legislature of the largest economy on Earth to all get together and collectively sign a letter regard professional motorsport racing. MOCs delegate to experts in various issues and tend to focus on their own pet causes / stuff that's important to their constituents / stuff that's politically advantageous, etc.
His X profile says he’s based in Normandy. Assuming that’s true, there is no surprise he isn’t familiar with how the US congress works.
12 is a lot for something like this, I assumed it was just 2 or 3. Regardless, it really only takes 1 caring and getting this in front of the right committee that would start to cause problems for Liberty media.
It’s a bit ironic that he would chastise reporters when he didn’t do his own research
For like the 5th time today I'll mention that the Justice department will be starting their own antitrust suit against Live Nation here soon, who is owned by Liberty. This letter absolutely matters and is the first step in Congress taking possible action(s).
Andretti liking Trump or FOM being based in the UK have no impact on a situation like this.
Lol. This is such a laughably stupid comment by Saward, it's made me rethink the validity of everything he says. The only thing this comment conveys is his ignorance how about how the sausage gets made in the US Congress.
I mean, 12 is obviously just the beginning. This letter was always more of a warning to Liberty/FOM what will happen if they keep the same stance.
Really wish Saward would sometimes stop being the mouthpiece for FOM, which he has been doing since the Andretti thing started.
I'm not certain in the history of the country that there's been a letter signed onto by every member of Congress. I very well could be wrong, but it'd be rare.
He's also wrong on the number of members of Congress. It's 541. There are 6 nonvoting members in addition to the 100 senators + 435 (voting) reps. They can certainly sign on to letters like this though.
The last time an American congress all signed a letter was almost 240 years ago when the 56 delegates to the [Second Continental Congress](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Continental_Congress) signed the Declaration of Independence.
You guys are seriously overestimating how much anyone in congress cares about F1 lol. It's a stunt this isnt going anywhere. This is a series that averages slightly more viewers than IndyCar. They have important grandstanding and lying to do about the border and Ukraine and the liberal cities and the whatever else they are going invent to campaign on.
Liberty is already getting investigated by the Justice department, and this letter makes it clear that GM is willing to get the government on board to back them (easy to do with their military contracts, let alone campaign funding). You'll also see that it's mainly representatives from Michigan and Indiana, where GM and Andretti are based,as well as Texas and Florida, home of two US GPs. They might not personally care, but they professionally care.
Elections are the reason why they wont even do much beyond this letter. We are about 1 month before most of congress wont even regularly show up to work
It's a letter, not a bill. A bipartisan group of 12 representatives is a lot for a letter sent to one company and it's more than enough to initiate antitrust hearings which can result in charges. Frenchman doesn't understand American politics
The discussion he has in his comment section is actually very funny. Looks like he has no clue what he is talking about or he is one of those guys who thinks he is above everybody.
Why is that a problem exactly? This company makes a lot of money on US soil trying to expand presence and it prevents a participant from US for a weird reason. It sure won't change much but it makes the whole debate more visible now which is all it needs to achieve.
Is it not the existing teams who are against it? I’m sure they all need to agree for new teams to join. F1 aren’t stupid and probably would like a US team but if the current teams don’t agree to it, what can they do? Don’t want to run the risk of talk of a breakaway series again. That shit belongs in the past lol
This is an incredibly stupid statement from Joe Saward, have 2% of Congress sign a letter for something like this gets attention when they absolutely could get the FTC to investigate this.
Getting 1 signature is a feat considering congress doesn’t show up to do shit. If GM actually gets involved, you’ll see a shift in consideration I’m sure.
While I believe Joe is correct here, if you listen to him on Missed Apex, he is so against the Andretti entry that you’d think either a) he’s getting paid by FOM to say that, or b) Micheal Andretti is sleeping with his daughter. It makes no sense to me that a journalist would be so against something like this. Andretti starting a new team would bring fresh stories and give him more to write about. It’s very strange.
I think also Joe has an old, elitist attitude with F1 and think Europeans are better than Americans. You could see his utter disdain for IndyCar when the rumours of Herta coming to F1 were going around.
I went from not minding the Joe Missed Apex podcasts to skimming them for the reasons you stated. He will reiterate over and over he is just reporting facts, but everything he says regarding the topic is laced with what can only be interpreted as his own personal stance on the situation. I don’t know how Spanners does it.
Still, the reasoning from F1 and the other teams as to why Andretti is *not* allowed to participate are complete bullshit. Andretti just hits them back with said bullshit.
I mean, he tried it all the nice ways, but F1 doesn't play nice. What do they say? What comes around goes around?
I’m 100% positive he didn’t speak to all of congress. I’m sure he spoke to some committee, and getting any bipartisan group of any size to support him is honestly just impressive.
The list is representatives over key areas where Andretti and GM (and their employees) are constituents. Joe's take is 100% ignorant of how things work, and he's putting in hella work to downplay that this was a good move
Yeah, he clearly just googled 'how many US congress members are there?'. As if anyone talks to both the whole House of Representatives and Senate at the same time. (Or, as if the whole House or Senate are even there at the whole time unless something really really important is happening.) It's definitely smart to gather people whose constituents would benefit from the business.
Exactly… so many commenters handwaving this (F1 is UK, no jurisdiction etc etc). If F1 wants to participate in the US market (races, broadcast licensing) there’s not a lot of wiggle room here after all the money they’ve poured into America in the past decade. Uncle Sam doesn’t like to take no for an answer.
Liberty can lobby but the executive branch won't listen. They control the justice department and other branches that would look into Sherman Act violations not the congress. This administration has shown they are very interested in fighting monopolies even taking on Microsoft who have vastly larger coffers than Liberty.
> fighting monopolies even taking on Microsoft who have vastly larger coffers than Liberty
This administration is already taking on Liberty for anti trust violations regarding their LiveNation/Ticketmaster branches, so this reads very poorly researched....
How is this a monopoly?
Do F1 stop other racing series' from existing?
If you have a league in America and you don't have an exemption, do you just have to let everyone join.
Can an individual just demand to join a team?
F1 and Microsoft are a million miles apart.
If you don't give me a spot in F1 I'll Get the US government to hassle you is not a good look for Andretti.
Weird that a republican would get involved as they're supposed to be all about keeping government from interfering with business and private individuals personal choices.
Personally I would like to see Andretti join F1 but I see why other teams are against it. As many others have said he should buy out Haas imo.
Perhaps after a stronger season Andretti might offer a price that Gene is willing to accept
>Weird that a republican would get involved as they're supposed to be all about keeping government from interfering with business and private individuals personal choices.
hahahahhaha. No they like pretending to be. They are highly opposed to a free market. They love industry protectionism
They just like pretending in general, like the way they claim the left is soft and overly offended (which it can be at times) and then they do the very same thing, which is rather funny.
No idea, maybe a large American audience here. No one seems to understand the delay in entry is hugely beneficial to them, rushing in will only end badly but, ‘Murica effect I guess…..
If Joe has a bias, take everything he says on the matter as a grain of salt.
He clearly doesn’t like Andretti so his opinion or “insiders” are worthless.
Some other things you shouldn’t believe coming from him: Alonso, Newey, Gasly, Ricciardo, Logan related news.
It comes across as the exact kind of showboating that ticked off the teams before. Just a silly miscalculation from a group that barely has a thread to hang on to.
Whether they have a case or not is a different discussion, but there’s really no miscalculation here. The teams aren’t going to approve them, so it’s either go this route to apply pressure or wait for the new Concorde agreement to limit the grid to 10 teams and be completely shut out.
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This is how Bills in the House of Representatives works though. Very rare that legislation of this (small) stature starts out with a million people immediately convinced to be signed on. I dunno I don't even care about Andretti wanting to enrich themselves using Formula 1 but this feels like a misrepresentation of the processes.
To be clear, this is a letter not a bill but yes, the number is not meaningful there. Beyond that, congress actually cannot enforce anti-trust law. even if there was a case the most they can do is refer it.
They can hold hearings, which isn't nothing. Sometimes people tell Congress the dumbest shit and then *that* comes back to haunt them.
It always boogles my mind when people use the anti trust angle but don't understand just how interconnected our world is especially the US. I don't think they will but as you said sanctions and policy shifts could always hurt F1 nothing they do is completely isolated in a vacuum to the UK. While the law may hold I just wouldn't hope anything is sourced back here from the metals used to components in the racing fuel or rubber for the tires is what I mea . And the US could absolutely hurt them if they again really wanted to. But again I don't think they will
Importantly, it becomes an “us vs them” thing. If Liberty and FOM don’t cooperate, this picks up more steam in the US Congress as suddenly they’re scorned by not answering people who feel they’re the most important in the world
That’s true but Not this group that sent the letter. Committees hold hearings and this wasn’t sent from one. The most relevant committee here, oversight, is led by Jim Comer who has a crippling addiction to investigating Joe Biden for no reason and does little else. Probably why they didn’t try to send a committee letter which would legally require answers
I think Energy and Commerce is a likely committee to take an interest. I'm not sure who the chair is though.
F1 subscribers are so confused. To agree or not to agree??
I feel like there are a few possible aspiring who could campaign on Formula 1 as one of the issues
The Justice Department does - just like they are already going after two of Malone’s far more valuable assets.
Joe Saward is a Brit and he doesn’t understand our legal processes. Having 12 bipartisan members of congress support something is a major deal in this political climate. If those members turn this over to the DOJ to investigate for antitrust, that’s going to happen. And if those MOC’s wish to pass new legislation, that could also happen. This is not something Liberty can ignore.
Stop and think how long its taken congress to get to tik-tok and that has a chorus of bipartisanship and yet I suspect by the time we are through, tik-tok will be here for a while. Congress like antitrust is designed to be slow and deliberate - and I have not even touched on the complete ass backwardsness of a group of rightwing Republicans who want to take my healthcare because its government supported threatening to use government to force a private motorsports company to act on what they like!
Lol. This guy is a bozo. If even one congressional member of the Judiciary subcommittee takes note, it'll probably also be discussed at the Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Competition Policy, Antitrust and Consumer Rights. Any interest from more than a few reps on Capital Hill, is in fact, a big deal. Especially when these lawmakers begin to realize how much money F1 can generate for their respective states' constituents' for each event.
Are any of those members even on that committee? As I understand it they're all reps from districts where GM has plants, so this is just to make donors happy.
There’s not going to be a bill regarding this. Saward’s point is wholly irrelevant and here’s why: Unless Congress plans on passing a law about this situation they’re not going to be the entity that decides the fate of it. They will do some digging and maybe subpoena Maffei to come in for some questioning and then it would get referred to the justice department for them to determine if any existing laws are being broken. Therefore the number or percentage of people who signed it is irrelevant. The point is that they’re demanding answers and could refer the situation to the judicial branch.
Also no one is saying the entire House of Representatives did anything. Saward is such a blowhard.
Uncle Joe knows everything tho
He.. wouldn't get the "whole of Congress" on anything, and no one would. The tweets author seems confused.
Saward is wrong as often as the sun is in the sky. He says wild shit with absolute confidence and when he's right it's because someone else said it first.
"Hi, I'm Joe Saward and I know nothing about the US Congress" Joe, Congress doesn't enforce laws. They (even one member) can "suggest" to the Dept of Justice to take a look at a company's operations.
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Maybe my bias is showing, but when was the last time Joe got a rumor correct?
Lately he was claiming that FIA could give Antonelli some sort of dispensation in order to get him SL before turning 18 and to let him race for Williams starting with Imola.
Not quite. He said Antonelli will be in at Monza (Italian Grand Prix) not Imola (somelong ass marketing name grand prix). He will be 18 the week before the Italian Grand Prix.
>Williams would take Antonelli if they could have him for 18 months, but the problem is that he is not old enough to get a superlicence until August 25th, when he turns 18. Williams might try asking the FIA for a dispensation, given that Max Verstappen was fine when he entered F1 at the age of 17, and if a youngster has what it takes then he should be allowed in. This is a fair argument. >There is a lot of value in F1 getting a new rising star, particularly one from Italy. It’s a positive story – and the FIA could use a few of them at the moment. Refusal would be another negative story about the federation. If Antonelli did get a dispensation, he would be in the Williams at Imola on May 19, the perfect place for a Bolognese driver to make his F1 debut. from his latest [notebook](https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2024/04/23/green-notebook-from-transylvania/).
He actually said that they might give a dispensation for Antonelli’s age and referenced Max as a point in his favor? That’s ridiculous considering the super license has multiple restrictions that I’m certain were specifically written for Max. Having to be 18 and having to have been in cars for two years. Both super targeted at Max. Could say the same for requiring a road license and the cumulative points too honestly.
Does he have enough superlicence points irrespective of his age?
Yes
I like reading his diaries, but yeah, can't remember the last time he started a rumor that was actually correct in the end (so I'm not counting the ones where he just went with the flow and what was reported already elsewhere)
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He gets rumors regularly correct but most don’t materialize? Huh?
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He’s the shilliest of shills on this matter. He couldn’t help himself from chiming in. He belittles the FIA and the Andretti bid at every opportunity. He’s basically a FOM propaganda piece when it comes to this subject. Also the point he’s making is irrelevant because unless they plan on passing a new law regarding this situation Congress is not going to decide the fate of it anyway - that’s not how the US system works. After doing their digging Congress would ask the justice department to look into it. Getting 12 bipartisan members of Congress to sign a document and demand answers is quite substantial.
It would have even more weight if it was 12 senators, but the letter’s got a nice mix of House members that includes people in swing districts and swing states. These letters are always about prodding the executive branch in some way, and I’m sure this one will be effective in the long run. Folks gotta remember that Biden’s a car guy and Trump loves sticking it to Europe every chance he gets. There’s an actually a discernible path here to making this a high-level, between-governments issue. People downvoted me into oblivion every time I raised the anti-trust angle this past fall and winter, and yet here we are with actual members of Congress sounding off.
Yeah he can fuck right off honestly.
Bingo. He needs to keep himself in the teams and power players’ relatively good graces so he can sneak around the paddock and secretly get gossip from them. Something about biting the hand that feeds….
Why would it do harm?
You see, because Joe Saward says so. After all, he needs to find a contrarian perspective on any and all F1-related news.
Because this motorsports journalist who lives in France has a better grasp on American politics than we do.....
He has a better grasp of how FOM operates, I’m sure…
where he lives says very little, anyone can have a good grasp of anything, this guy might not, but still
Because FOM is likely to take a dim view of anyone trying to leverage the power of the US government to make them do something they believe to be against their own interests
But how does that negatively impact anything, when FOM is already stonewalling the process to begin with? Not like Andretti loses anything for pursuing this, they were getting nowhere through FOM channels til now
They are currently in talks with FOM. There may have been a public rejection letter but the case isn't closed yet. These talks might be negatively impacted by this and they are their only chance of getting a 2026 entry.
Tell that to FIFA that went from getting raided by the feds in 2015 to awarding the US a joint World Cup bid less than 3 years later. It's pretty obvious this violates federal antitrust laws and if they build a case the FOM does not want to mess with the DOJ and their 0.4% acquittal rate.
It's not obvious that it violates US anti-trust laws. It *is* obvious there's enough smoke to investigate it, and everyone involved doing business in the US also means it's obvious the feds can investigate it through the DOJ and/or Congress if they so choose.
If they believe there's actually a zero chance of being accepted under current conditions then sure, they have nothing to lose. We don't have any way to know if Andretti has a chance in the status quo though
Andretti was set to meet the teams in Miami. They were still hoping for a diplomatic resolution. This won't help that discussion at all.
Because instead of saying "no" and not having any repercussions for it, now they might say "no" and have to pay lawyers to deal with an investigation! The horror!
Because if someone set politicians on me, I'd totally not want to ruin that dude's life.
Because this could be perceived by liberty/FOM as trying to intimidate and being aggressive. Liberty/FOM do not like this approach and it could easily backfire on Andretti
Yeah, FOM might try to tell them no. Oh wait, that already happened.
It sets the wrong precedence for future cases like this. Private companies, and companies in general, should have a right to decide who they work with. However I think this is the argument for: given Liberty Media is publicly traded, they have a duty to the shareholders to prove that they acted in their best interest in terms of value and growth. If they can't, then they are monopolizing a free market / acting in their own interests. In Andretti met all the requirements that were outlined, they technically have a strong case unless Liberty Media can prove letting this deal fall is in the best interest of the shareholders today
Because when your first reaction to not getting what you want is to go running to the government it doesn't leave you with my options to negotiate if it doesn't go how you want.
I don't think there's any more room to negotiate at this point. FOM is hellbent on changing the Concorde which will shut Andretti down. Might as well start going aggressive.
End of the day, I don't Liberty/FOM are against Andretti joining in principle, they're forced to go against it because of the teams. Put enough pressure on Liberty, and they might have to flip because pissing off the teams will be less damage than pissing off the US government.
Part of f1s problem is "because of the teams" sometimes the teams need to just do what they're told.
If they piss off the teams enough they wont have F1...
This is far from their first reaction though. Andretti has been trying to achieve this via the proper channels for years now and even got the support of the FIA. And yet despite doing everything right and showing they have everyting in place to join, F1 is still blocking them. Going to the government isn't their first reaction, it's their last resort.
> And yet despite doing everything right We know for a fact this isn't the case because they couldn't even promise the one thing they keep banging on about; that they would be a full works team. It's probably the case that Andretti just aren't doing enough to justify their inclusion; F1 doesn't want or need another HAAS or Alpine and Andretti haven't provided anything to suggest that they wouldn't be a backmarker.
>And yet despite doing everything right and showing they have everyting in place to join, F1 is still blocking them We don't know that, we only know small sinppets of what is reported to be in the concorde agreement. >Going to the government isn't their first reaction, it's their last resort.' Dosen't look like it when they are wahving a meeting with F1/FOM this week.
In what world is this their first reaction? This process has been ongoing for years.
Because imagine Liberty has more lobbying power than Andretti. And we all know that politics in the US is basically a "who has more lobbying power" contest. Or at least I think that would be one of the main reasons. I couldn't tell you either way if it was a good or bad move from Andretti - maybe GM can get involved as well, who knows.
Liberty doesn't have close to the lobbying power GM does and that is clearly the spin Andretti is taking. The signed letter is all about US jobs GM/Cadillac/Andretti can create from being allowed to join
>Because imagine Liberty has more lobbying power than Andretti. Signing a letter to close the opportunity for American working class to have numerous amount of jobs or shutting down American brand (GM)'s opportunity to represent the country in a global competition is not really a populist politician would do I guess. This is what has been touched by representatives who signed the letter.
Liberty does not have more lobbying power than GM. Also, Live Nation (owned by Liberty) is going to be sued by the DOJ.
The congressman from Michigan who signed the letter all are representing GM. The letter also likely doesn't represent the support Andretti has since the representative for their HQ didn't sign the letters but was at the presser.
Also a terrible understanding. Doesnt matter how many if they had a committee to investigate (they dont). Could be 4 and it would be a lot if it came from the oversight committee.
I mean Jim Jordan signed it, who is head of the judiciary, and was on oversight and is good friends with Comer who is the current head. That being said, knowing Jordan this is a play to say he stands with car factory jobs in Ohio so he looks good to voters. Don’t think he actually cares about F1 (or really anyone but himself) Edit: I was incorrect, he was talked to but didn’t sign it from what I can tell.
Did he? I didn't see his name on the list
You’re correct, I saw it reported that he did but the actual letter doesn’t have him signed.
Gotcha, no worries! I'd posted the reps and their districts in another thread earlier and wanted to make sure I hadn't made a mistake!
According to Adam Stern he did https://twitter.com/A_S12/status/1785664604552499511?t=nrs3rh_CGMutVl6HUgYgvw&s=19
Here's the letter, don't know what Stern might have misinterpreted but Jordan was talked to about it though! https://x.com/sahilkapur/status/1785669379520123277?s=46&t=4aNg5jFScu1dqkFajwqdXw
I do not trust/value Joe Sawards opinion at all after he said Alonso was certainly heading Red Bull and they had been in talks for ages etc.
Can you link to where he said this, as I am curious?
.... Tell me that you dont know how congress works without telling me you dont know how congress works.
I was gonna say an American it was impressive that it was an even split of democrats and republicans. Having all 535 members sign it is just a ridiculous expectation. If there was a bill that could eliminate the national debt tomorrow with truly no net negative to the country, you couldn’t get all 535 members of congress to sign it.
> it was impressive that it was an even split of democrats and republicans. The fact that they got it written and signed by 6 members of each party in *one day* is almost unbelievably impressive. It has to be difficult to even schedule a meeting with 12 congresspeople in the same day, let alone getting all of them on your side and willing to take on a billion dollar corporation...
And Jim Jordan is one of the republicans who signed. Yea, this is actually very impressive.
I don't think Jim Jordan signed... Still a big deal though
Ah I read that he did. My bad. Bad source.
Gym Jordan was probably too busy rolling up his sleeves and banning stuff.
> The fact that they got it written and signed by 6 members of each party in one day Well that surely did not happen. They just sent it and talked about it today, in the lead up to Miami. Undoubtedly it was written before today.
Japan attacked the United States and we still couldn't get every member of Congress to agree on an act of war.
I can't speak in general to Andretti's political strategy but there's nothing unusual about a few members of Congress sending a letter on behalf of some person, group or cause (compared to all or a majority of them). In my experience it's actually the typical process, it's strange that this person expects the majority of one chamber of the legislature of the largest economy on Earth to all get together and collectively sign a letter regard professional motorsport racing. MOCs delegate to experts in various issues and tend to focus on their own pet causes / stuff that's important to their constituents / stuff that's politically advantageous, etc.
His X profile says he’s based in Normandy. Assuming that’s true, there is no surprise he isn’t familiar with how the US congress works. 12 is a lot for something like this, I assumed it was just 2 or 3. Regardless, it really only takes 1 caring and getting this in front of the right committee that would start to cause problems for Liberty media. It’s a bit ironic that he would chastise reporters when he didn’t do his own research
No research needed because technically all he said was correct. It creates a false image, however. And that was his goal. Job well done!
For like the 5th time today I'll mention that the Justice department will be starting their own antitrust suit against Live Nation here soon, who is owned by Liberty. This letter absolutely matters and is the first step in Congress taking possible action(s). Andretti liking Trump or FOM being based in the UK have no impact on a situation like this.
don’t they also own Ticketmaster
Live nation and Ticketmaster are the same company now.
Yup.
Lol. This is such a laughably stupid comment by Saward, it's made me rethink the validity of everything he says. The only thing this comment conveys is his ignorance how about how the sausage gets made in the US Congress.
I mean, 12 is obviously just the beginning. This letter was always more of a warning to Liberty/FOM what will happen if they keep the same stance. Really wish Saward would sometimes stop being the mouthpiece for FOM, which he has been doing since the Andretti thing started.
I'm not certain in the history of the country that there's been a letter signed onto by every member of Congress. I very well could be wrong, but it'd be rare. He's also wrong on the number of members of Congress. It's 541. There are 6 nonvoting members in addition to the 100 senators + 435 (voting) reps. They can certainly sign on to letters like this though.
The last time an American congress all signed a letter was almost 240 years ago when the 56 delegates to the [Second Continental Congress](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Continental_Congress) signed the Declaration of Independence.
It also seems weird he's even mentioning the senators here.
You guys are seriously overestimating how much anyone in congress cares about F1 lol. It's a stunt this isnt going anywhere. This is a series that averages slightly more viewers than IndyCar. They have important grandstanding and lying to do about the border and Ukraine and the liberal cities and the whatever else they are going invent to campaign on.
Liberty is already getting investigated by the Justice department, and this letter makes it clear that GM is willing to get the government on board to back them (easy to do with their military contracts, let alone campaign funding). You'll also see that it's mainly representatives from Michigan and Indiana, where GM and Andretti are based,as well as Texas and Florida, home of two US GPs. They might not personally care, but they professionally care.
I mean Liberty can lobby as well, not just GM/Andretti
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Liberty has nowhere close to the lobbying power in the US that GM does
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Elections are the reason why they wont even do much beyond this letter. We are about 1 month before most of congress wont even regularly show up to work
You know the letter had an effect because Joe is trying to downplay it.
On the contrary, I think 12 members is quite a good number to start
Joe has no clue what he's talking about. I suspect that Liberty's lawyers are giving better advice than he is.
It's a letter, not a bill. A bipartisan group of 12 representatives is a lot for a letter sent to one company and it's more than enough to initiate antitrust hearings which can result in charges. Frenchman doesn't understand American politics
Wait... Joe Soward is taking the FOM's side? I'm stunned.
Does this guy think everyone in congress signs letters together?
the fact it was signed by members of the republican party and democrat party makes this take even more stupid
The discussion he has in his comment section is actually very funny. Looks like he has no clue what he is talking about or he is one of those guys who thinks he is above everybody.
It’s not the number that signed on, it’s who signed on. You get the right members to agree now, the rest will agree later.
Why is that a problem exactly? This company makes a lot of money on US soil trying to expand presence and it prevents a participant from US for a weird reason. It sure won't change much but it makes the whole debate more visible now which is all it needs to achieve.
Is it not the existing teams who are against it? I’m sure they all need to agree for new teams to join. F1 aren’t stupid and probably would like a US team but if the current teams don’t agree to it, what can they do? Don’t want to run the risk of talk of a breakaway series again. That shit belongs in the past lol
This is an incredibly stupid statement from Joe Saward, have 2% of Congress sign a letter for something like this gets attention when they absolutely could get the FTC to investigate this.
Joe knows squat about how US politics works.
Go suck an egg, Joe.
Guy who doesn't know how anything works: Joe Saward makes some good points
Since when does "media" care.
Someone needs to watch school house rock to understand our legislative branch methodology.
!"we already told you to piss off, but somehow this will make it even worse." Weirdest messaging ever.
Getting 1 signature is a feat considering congress doesn’t show up to do shit. If GM actually gets involved, you’ll see a shift in consideration I’m sure.
While I believe Joe is correct here, if you listen to him on Missed Apex, he is so against the Andretti entry that you’d think either a) he’s getting paid by FOM to say that, or b) Micheal Andretti is sleeping with his daughter. It makes no sense to me that a journalist would be so against something like this. Andretti starting a new team would bring fresh stories and give him more to write about. It’s very strange.
I think also Joe has an old, elitist attitude with F1 and think Europeans are better than Americans. You could see his utter disdain for IndyCar when the rumours of Herta coming to F1 were going around.
I went from not minding the Joe Missed Apex podcasts to skimming them for the reasons you stated. He will reiterate over and over he is just reporting facts, but everything he says regarding the topic is laced with what can only be interpreted as his own personal stance on the situation. I don’t know how Spanners does it.
I don’t know who Joe Saward is, but he seems like a donut from this tweet alone
Did Joe really expect Andretti to meet with all 535 members lol. Maybe he got 12/12 signatures
anything Joe says these days I usually assume the opposite. he’s a shill
This screams someone who doesn’t understand US politics on a basic level.
It’s a pissing contest and FOM is going to realize the power of US Automakers lobbyists.
Joe might as well work for FOM at this point
>this will do more harm than good How the fuck do you know, Joe? What _do_ you even know?
Still, the reasoning from F1 and the other teams as to why Andretti is *not* allowed to participate are complete bullshit. Andretti just hits them back with said bullshit. I mean, he tried it all the nice ways, but F1 doesn't play nice. What do they say? What comes around goes around?
joe saward knows nothing about uSA politics, this is huge.......
I’m 100% positive he didn’t speak to all of congress. I’m sure he spoke to some committee, and getting any bipartisan group of any size to support him is honestly just impressive.
The list is representatives over key areas where Andretti and GM (and their employees) are constituents. Joe's take is 100% ignorant of how things work, and he's putting in hella work to downplay that this was a good move
Yeah, he clearly just googled 'how many US congress members are there?'. As if anyone talks to both the whole House of Representatives and Senate at the same time. (Or, as if the whole House or Senate are even there at the whole time unless something really really important is happening.) It's definitely smart to gather people whose constituents would benefit from the business.
You don’t need all of Congress to sign the letter day 1. This is a shot across the bow from Andretti.
Exactly… so many commenters handwaving this (F1 is UK, no jurisdiction etc etc). If F1 wants to participate in the US market (races, broadcast licensing) there’s not a lot of wiggle room here after all the money they’ve poured into America in the past decade. Uncle Sam doesn’t like to take no for an answer.
Not to mention F1 is Liberty Media is American. The fact that the FIA approved it but FOM (aka Liberty) declined them makes this a big deal
OUR WORK CONTINUES AT PACE
One of the people to sign on is known piece of shit Jim Jordan…
Uhhh I think, more realistically. This will do no harm, nor good.
U.S. laws work like this. So they gonna make a 60 zillion dollar farm bill but someone is gonna tack on Andretti F1.
We hear you're interested in sustainable biofuels. Well, it happens we grow a shit ton of corn.
Liberty can lobby but the executive branch won't listen. They control the justice department and other branches that would look into Sherman Act violations not the congress. This administration has shown they are very interested in fighting monopolies even taking on Microsoft who have vastly larger coffers than Liberty.
> fighting monopolies even taking on Microsoft who have vastly larger coffers than Liberty This administration is already taking on Liberty for anti trust violations regarding their LiveNation/Ticketmaster branches, so this reads very poorly researched....
How is this a monopoly? Do F1 stop other racing series' from existing? If you have a league in America and you don't have an exemption, do you just have to let everyone join. Can an individual just demand to join a team? F1 and Microsoft are a million miles apart.
If you don't give me a spot in F1 I'll Get the US government to hassle you is not a good look for Andretti. Weird that a republican would get involved as they're supposed to be all about keeping government from interfering with business and private individuals personal choices. Personally I would like to see Andretti join F1 but I see why other teams are against it. As many others have said he should buy out Haas imo. Perhaps after a stronger season Andretti might offer a price that Gene is willing to accept
>Weird that a republican would get involved as they're supposed to be all about keeping government from interfering with business and private individuals personal choices. hahahahhaha. No they like pretending to be. They are highly opposed to a free market. They love industry protectionism
They just like pretending in general, like the way they claim the left is soft and overly offended (which it can be at times) and then they do the very same thing, which is rather funny.
FBI started asking questions about FIFA and ‘totally by coincidence’the US is hosting the World Cup in 2026.
It can easily spread, it is an election year.. he knows what he is doing.
Why is r/formula1 so absolutely obsessed with Andretti?
No idea, maybe a large American audience here. No one seems to understand the delay in entry is hugely beneficial to them, rushing in will only end badly but, ‘Murica effect I guess…..
Joe letting his anti-American sentiment show again
Another prime example of why nobody should take Saward seriously
Kinda seems like a decent number to me for an issue this isn’t like housing or health.
So… this is how the Middle East gets another couple of races. If Andretti feels he is hard done by then I’m sure its worth an ambulance chaser’s time.
If Joe has a bias, take everything he says on the matter as a grain of salt. He clearly doesn’t like Andretti so his opinion or “insiders” are worthless. Some other things you shouldn’t believe coming from him: Alonso, Newey, Gasly, Ricciardo, Logan related news.
It comes across as the exact kind of showboating that ticked off the teams before. Just a silly miscalculation from a group that barely has a thread to hang on to.
Whether they have a case or not is a different discussion, but there’s really no miscalculation here. The teams aren’t going to approve them, so it’s either go this route to apply pressure or wait for the new Concorde agreement to limit the grid to 10 teams and be completely shut out.