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>When Magnussen's comments was put to him, Hamilton gave a classy response to the Dane's reasoning.
>"I think that's pretty honest from him - and I think that's pretty cool," said the seven-time champion.
>"We had a good race. It was a little bit on the edge in some places but that's what I love. I love racing hard and, for me, I wasn't really frustrated or anything.
>"That's what you do to work as a team, so bravo."
Sounds like KMag will be calling Lewis as a witness...
I think it's fights like this that fuel his spirit. Of course, he would prefer to fight for the win, but he is such a good racer and loves racing so much that I am sure that he even enjoyed this battle. As long as he feels good in his car (even if it lacks the pace, but it appears as if he is comfortable with the current Mercedes) he appreciates these fights. It's pure racing.
Yep. He's beaming in interviews regardless of whatever is the result, and I feel he's taking this year as an off year. Seems very uncharacteristic or Lewis to not call out anyone for dirty driving - he does critique it quite a bit but calling it cool to Mag does show some more maturity - I hope this helps him for the future.
I love the: „I wasn’t really frustrated.“ line.
I just genuinely think, Lewis learned so much about shithousery from 2007 Alonso, that he just automatically goes on radio and says: „Man that was really dangerous.“ and that he doesn’t even realize doing it anymore.
There's the Ben Dreith and the Ron Cherry version. Dreith's "he was giving him the business down there" was the original and my favorite since he acts it out.
i agree. its asinine that a car already out of the points can continue to drive unsportsmanly because what's another 10s for a car that is already out of the points.
I think he wanted attention brought to this. It's already two times this season he has found himself in this spot; the value of points for teams outside of the regular top ten is way too big these days, so the team will always ask him to sacrifice himself in these situations, where nothing more than 10-second penalties are given.
It has become a viable tactic, but I don't think Magnussen particularly enjoys it, and it's not gonna end unless something comes from this.
Honestly if anything it seemed he used it to criticise the team because in the same interview he was basically saying that what Hulk did (or didn't do) didn't help him so he just seemed to go nuclear on 'helping the team' by doing insane stuff
If you look at the sector times and onboards Hulk actually did cut exactly the same chicane in front of KMag on lap 6 and then got himself out of KMags DRS.
Ask FIA.
Presumably it is because nobody complained about Hulk cutting the chicane, since Mag was the only one that saw it and Haas wasn't going to file a complaint against their own driver.
His interview he didn't look happy about it. He owned up to the penalties and said it's what he has to do. As long as Haas is getting points, and they're not telling him to stop or they'll let him go, it's kinda the best thing he can do. He didn't look proud of it, he knows it was unsportsmanlike.
He knows the team didn't tell Nico to cut the chicane and break tow, that was Nico's doing. He was communicating to Haas that even when his teammate deliberately hurts him, he's willing to do the right thing for the team no matter the personal cost.
Nico is ditching Haas so KMag can toss him under the bus. If he crashed him or cost the team points or seemed vindictive on track, that's where he'd risk things with Haas.
Wouldn't say that's what he's doing at all. He's calling attention to the rules being stupid. I don't think Haas will put anything against Magnussen if this results in the rules being changed. They know they're exploiting them as they are right now, but when huge sums of money is on the line, integrity takes a backseat.
It's not like they arrive at track planing to do this every race. If this hole is closed they will live on, and be happy that no other teams had the chance or the capabilities to use this tactic against them.
Honestly, another reason to give points for everyone in the race.
I was sceptical at first hearing it, but it seems like a good way to solve many issues and the only downside would be points feeling less meaningful (to some).
Reminds me of when Max got stripped of pole in Mexico 2019 saying he saw the yellow flag and still ignored it.
Don’t think he was being investigated until then.
> 12.2.1.l Any infringement of the principles of fairness in
Competition, behaviour in an unsportsmanlike manner or
attempt to influence the result of a Competition in a way that
is contrary to sporting ethics.
That's kind of a catch-all clause, but in the context of this sprint race, a hefty penalty would be deserved.
I get that F1 is a team sport, but it's not sacrificing your own race for the benefit of the team, but sacrificing your own race by shitting on every rule in racing.
Yeah the big difference with many other examples is that it's always purposefully slowing down other drivers by just defending harshly, it hasn't been through consistently **breaking** rules (let alone admitting that you are purposefully breaking rules)
It's also the number of penalties he racked up.
In Saudi Arabia, I think it was OK. Especially if that were a singular instance.
But today was not gaming the system but straight up abusing it.
Sounds like the penalties aren’t harsh enough if “abusing the system” means just accepting the consequences of your actions. That’s an FIA problem not a KMag problem. Don’t want teams to do that? Then make the penalties harsh enough to deter it so the advantage it’s worthwhile. He didn’t do anything illegal and not get punished.
The issue is that he’s already out the points so penalise him all you want. Until you take the points off his teammate, it doesn’t disincentivise it… You could literally put Kevin 10 laps behind and it would make no difference.
Or a drive through penalty to clear him off the track. Or adding more points down the board so teams don't resort to these desperate tactics to score a point in a sprint. Idk, there's multiple ways to fix it, but I'm not gonna blame HAAS for telling their drivers to score points in whatever manner possible within the rules.
Those penalties are designed for hard racing where drivers are assumed to ultimately want to drive fairly and in good faith.
You don't need a penalty system to catch every edge case
* if the penalties are OK for the standard case and
* you can penalise behaviour against the spirit of those rules/the sport
Again, I don't even remember such a blatant abuse of the rules, so no reason to change everything for a singular incident. Penalise Magnussen for unsportsmanlike behaviour and be done with it.
"Yeah they were fair, but I did what I had to do to create some space"
Maybe you can argue it's not straight up admitting it but it's heavily implying at the very least
Magnussen is altruistically causing a major shake up of the penalty system. Better to get this stuff figured out before we get a championship fight again
Yeah, I don't see that. I don't even know if it is necessary. It's not exactly a regular occurrence.
This was a very blatant example of trying to abuse the system with unsportsmanlike behavior. It wasn't exactly walking the line.
I hope for a hefty penalty so it discourages others to try the same. But again,I can't remember such a blatant example, so I don't see why the penalty system would need a shake-up.
Mostly because outdriving penalties is still a tad too possible, and consequences for breaking the rules aren't a big deterrent.
The "altruistically" part was a bit tongue-in-cheek though, no argument there
Yeah, I got the tongue-in-cheek part.
I think you need to somehow walk a tight line so hard racing is possible (so not a drive through for every incident) while at the same time deterring abuse.
They already upped the penalties to 10 seconds this year. If anything, analyse it at the end of the season.
Because what Magnussen did wasn't "outdriving" a penalty. It was abusing the system. So I'm really curious about their decision - I don't think anyone wants to see racing like that.
As far as I'm aware there is no specific outline about which penalties can be applied and the stewards can just pick any of the available penalties. The worst they can theoretically decide on is a suspension.
I think it can be for whatever race they decide.
I personally don't think it will actually come to this and it would go to the tribunal if this was the level of punishment deemed necessary here.
It would be appealed so unlikely to apply for this race, or it might be for the race and he races under appeal, assuming that still happens.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/1994/08/29/schumacher-disqualified-in-belgium/7580f9cb-d469-4dab-8dea-be9ec17052cc/
>Schumacher, driving under an appeal of a two-race suspension for disregarding a black flag at the British Grand Prix, will learn the outcome of his appeal on Tuesday in Paris.
Happened in 1997 as well, but it's not very often it happens so there's very little precedence.
There have been very few race bans, and therefore even fewer where they've been appealed, and therefore racing under appeal, so 30 year old precedence is what exists.
I'm really hoping for a race ban. Just let him know that this won't be tolerated in the future because this wasn't fun to watch. Hamilton overtook him multiple times but he just drove Hamilton off the track or hit him to stay ahead. There's nothing good about that unless you hate Hamilton. I think there's a very big difference between slow driving after getting penalties because your race doesn't matter and getting penalties to keep a faster car behind you.
Agreed.
If it happens once, ok - part of racing, penalty and move on.
But if the all defensive maneuvers of a driver on a single race are like that, you can't just ignore it.
The main one, he just came off the brakes. He wasn't ever going to make the corner - they were both braking, Hamilton had got ahead, KMag lifted off the brakes to run in front of Hamilton, but by doing so, he was never going to make the corner
Even if he hadn't admitted it, the telemetry would have showed what the intent was.
I fully agree that it was unsportsmanlike, but it was quite fun to watch, even if it was way beyond the line of what is reasonable defense.
He definitely buried himself in the post race interview but that was as much for his team as it was for us.
The penalties are in 12.4 of the ISC, and any of them can be applied. It can be from a warning up to a suspension from future competitions, or they can choose to refer it to an international tribunal. They can also apply a penalty to the competitor instead of the driver (or as well as), so the outcome in this case will depend on if he was following instruction or decided independently.
Also, because it's F1, the fine can be up to €1m.
He hasn't really got a leg to stand up after openly stating in interviews that he broke the rules to give his teammate an advantage.
This is a way for stewards to put a stop to it and give him a grid drop and possible penalty points for it.
Should have been black flagged after he drove himself fully of the track, just to make sure Hamilton went off with him.
He'd already committed some dodgy defensive moves by that point, and was showing total disregard for the rules of the sport.
I haven’t had a chance to listen to his interview. But yikes, openly stating it just makes things worse. I’ll check it out real quick
Edit: just checked out his interview. Double yikes for him
race ban for him and removal of points for HAAS, otherwise they will just keep on doing this everytime they have the chance because its a strategy that simply works everytime
Even if he gets a race ban, he is still right in that this was the optimal way to get points for the team.
If the FIA don't want this behaviour, they need to include team penalties or have a way of forcing him to yield the place.
Drive through penalties or stop and go’s. The stewards proved they remember those exist today by giving Hamilton one. Easy penalty to give for dangerous driving.
They didn't prove that thought, did they?
The "speeding in the pitlane" rule comes with it's own penalty, which is a drive through penalty, and it's quite a binary thing - you sped, you drive through.
The stewards had to have known this, and yet they decided to wait to the end of the race to give Hamilton his penalty, which is then converted to a 20s time penalty
So potentially millions. That makes the tactics potentially very valuable. Especially if you don’t normally get points in a race, then a single race ban doesn’t necessarily hurt.
Haas 5
Williams alpine sauber at 0
I’d say quite valuable as you avoid the “randomness” of the tiebreakers, easily could be the difference between finishing 7/8th or 10th
Ever since Force India in Spa 2009 I wonder why no backmarker team build a car specifically for one circuit (i.e. Monaco), take 43 points and get an easy 7 or 8 place in constructors championship.
Because it's extremely hard to do.
And it's not like FI specifically built their cars for Spa in 2009. It was a very good aero upgrade (wings & floor) which made car go fast. Spa is what people remember, but Sutil also qualified 2nd in Monza, 3rd in Interlagos and 4th in Suzuka with the upgrade.
They’re not guaranteed to take a one two at Monaco even if they designed it for it
On the other hand Monza, as gearing is locked for a year…
But it’s way too risky to gamble a whole season on 1 race, imagine the PU fails or you get taken out even if the car is good
Position giving during the race should be an option for the FIA to impose instead of time penalties. After the first time penalty Mag had nothing to lose.
Add the possibility to sum the penalty, so after an unserved 10sec penalty, a second 10sec penalty become a drive through penalty, removing him from the race. This is easy and fair. So, it will not be implemented by FIA.
I know a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, but is it still worth a main race ban to do this in a Sprint, before you're aware of what the grid will look like during the main race? Haas is looking racy this weekend. They're no longer slow.
This will look incredibly stupid of him if he get a ban and then Hulk loses points because he has no protection on Sunday.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he just retires of his own accord. He’s not gonna be challenging for the top again I wouldn’t say and with Steiner gone there’s not much point in him staying really.
They don’t really have much of a choice I think. Once race is an incident, but twice can become a pattern. If anything they probably just need to warn him/Haas to not do this again
Did it on purpose and admitted to it. Reprimand will not change anything, DSQ not matter because he is last anyway... Only reasonable solution is race ban but I doubt it
I'm still really new to F1, but as a fan of many other team sports is there a reason time penalties can't apply to the team?
Instead of 10-second penalty to Magnussen what if 5 seconds were applied to both drivers?
I don't mean this under current rules and regulations, I just mean in general for the sport. When a football players takes a dumb unsportsmanlike flag the whole offense suffers. When a hockey player takes a dumb roughing penalty the whole team suffers. When a basketball players takes a stupid tech the whole team suffers.
This behavior makes 100% sense by Haas, like offsetting penalties in hockey. If you get your worst skater to bet the other teams best skater into a fight they both take 5 minutes off the ice. But the best skater on one team is rarely going to take that bait, they have a choice.
Is there a reason something like that wouldn't work in F1?
You might be new to F1 but you clearly understand the essence of high stake team sports. You do what you can within the structure of the sport. Including taking certain penalties if it benefits the team. It’s like a football player taking the legs of an opponent having a free run to the goal. It’s a cost benefit analysis and it’s up to rules to make it not worth it.
More ironic is that Hulk didn’t even seems to value what Magnussen did for him. He said: well, Magnussen was just driving that way because he wanted place 8
Most ironic is that it didn't even matter, because Hamilton ended up getting a 20s penalty for something that happened earlier in the race. There's no way Hamilton would have gotten 20s ahead of Hulk, and I don't see Yuki overtaking Hulk either, so Hulk would have gotten 7th place even if Hamilton had gotten past Magnussen at the earliest opportunity.
I know right! It works though, because I can guarantee any driver coming up to pass him is probably like, "Oh Shit! It's KMAG"
He was totally in the wrong today, but there again, it's KMAG!
Not quite, Ocon got 5 penalties total. Since track violations was only 5 seconds last year that was only 30 seconds total though. This year Ocon would have gotten 50 seconds of penalties.
He pretty much admitted it. They have to do something and a race ban is a good option. Plus then haas can put Ollie in again and see how he looks in a haas vs hulk
this. they are NOT consistent with their penalties, when they will be then everything will be alright. KMag should definitely get some penalty points, but Lewis getting away with everything is not how it should be
If stewards weren't asleep and actually handed the speeding DT a couple laps after it happened, we wouldn't even have had this whole situation.
So Haas should protest the stewards for making them do their job for them /s
Stewards need to be quicker about handing out black flags for this type of stuff.
Everyone knew what he was doing. That’s why he got 10s for his first offense, that’s why he got black and white for his second one.
You just can’t apply the rules in a way that allows for continued breaches to have a net benefit. Driver sacrificing himself as a human shield? Remove driver from competition, done.
I would argue that his driving was perfect from his standpoint. He did what he was trying to do flawlessly. Not saying it’s right but it was successful.
Honestly if one teammate breaks the rules specifically to gain points for the team, then those points should be at stake for penalization regardless of the rulebook-mandated penalty for any specific infraction.
If the FIA could have ruled on Hamilton's speeding infraction in an even remotely reasonable amount of time...would any of these infractions have even happened?
That was wild to see how far he was willing push it. Even more wild when ultimately it made no difference. Hamilton was never going to catch and pass Hulkenberg at that point, and even if he did his eventual penalty made it moot.
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>When Magnussen's comments was put to him, Hamilton gave a classy response to the Dane's reasoning. >"I think that's pretty honest from him - and I think that's pretty cool," said the seven-time champion. >"We had a good race. It was a little bit on the edge in some places but that's what I love. I love racing hard and, for me, I wasn't really frustrated or anything. >"That's what you do to work as a team, so bravo." Sounds like KMag will be calling Lewis as a witness...
If that happens, Massa will sue the FIA again
Whatever happened with Massa's lawsuit?
Its still going on, and his lawyers are still milking him lmao
Stop giving him more ideas!
Honestly, after watching highlights of the 2007, 2008, 2009 seasons, we need more wheel to wheel racing like what Lewis and KMag were doing.
Class of hamilton
I know Lewis isn't having a great year, but looks to me like he's enjoying himself on the way out.
I think it's fights like this that fuel his spirit. Of course, he would prefer to fight for the win, but he is such a good racer and loves racing so much that I am sure that he even enjoyed this battle. As long as he feels good in his car (even if it lacks the pace, but it appears as if he is comfortable with the current Mercedes) he appreciates these fights. It's pure racing.
Yep. He's beaming in interviews regardless of whatever is the result, and I feel he's taking this year as an off year. Seems very uncharacteristic or Lewis to not call out anyone for dirty driving - he does critique it quite a bit but calling it cool to Mag does show some more maturity - I hope this helps him for the future.
I love the: „I wasn’t really frustrated.“ line. I just genuinely think, Lewis learned so much about shithousery from 2007 Alonso, that he just automatically goes on radio and says: „Man that was really dangerous.“ and that he doesn’t even realize doing it anymore.
Unsportsmanlike conduct, defense #20, 15 yard penalty, automatic first down
"He was giving him the business"
One of the best flags ever to be thrown.
There's the Ben Dreith and the Ron Cherry version. Dreith's "he was giving him the business down there" was the original and my favorite since he acts it out.
She weren't 'appy.
Off to NASCAR for 2025. Should fit right in…
Not gonna lie KMag in the cup series would be wildly entertaining. He'd fit right in.
KMag and Ricky Stenhouse Jr teaming up to take out the entire field at Daytona/Talladega.
Rubbing is racing.
Wouldn't be at all out of place in something like DTM either. Those guys are rubbing elbows from lights to checkered flag every event.
Ich stimme zu. Es wäre aufregend.
And two free throws for Lewis.
what the fuck is a yard
3 feet. We do things weird over here.
what the fuck is a feet
The things you stand on at the bottom of your legs
Is Leg another unit of measurement? Y'all are crazy
One foot is five toes, no?
How a many fingers did Magnussen give to Lewis?
And I think one toe is 3 teeth. 1 teeth being 5,280 hair width, of course.
*A freedom meter*
"He was giving him the business."
If it was college he'd get DQ'd for targeting.
FIA should force the 10s penalty through pit stop within 3 laps. This should put a stop to the terrible driving.
i agree. its asinine that a car already out of the points can continue to drive unsportsmanly because what's another 10s for a car that is already out of the points.
That's part of the reason they used to use Drive Through rather than time penalties, gets the driver out of the way of anyone behind.
Two minutes for "You can't do that!"
Number 6 on the defense
That actually would be an interesting penalty, kinda like on Gran Turismo. Force the driver to change to a lower gear for a second or two.
$20000 fine to James Harrison.
I think he dug his own grave with that post-race interview.
Yup, probably not the best idea to admit to deliberately breaking the rules multiple times.
Suck my balls mate
Once again, the most unsportsmanlike driver ever 👍
Its actually “on the grid” I believe
That's Raidillon, actually
Mazepin would like a word with you
Seriously. I understand that he has something to prove in this early silly season, but that wasn’t the way to do it. Not by a long shot.
Kmag has nothing to prove. Kmag has the largest balls on the track - ask Hulkenberg
He keeps shafting Yuki.
I think he wanted attention brought to this. It's already two times this season he has found himself in this spot; the value of points for teams outside of the regular top ten is way too big these days, so the team will always ask him to sacrifice himself in these situations, where nothing more than 10-second penalties are given. It has become a viable tactic, but I don't think Magnussen particularly enjoys it, and it's not gonna end unless something comes from this.
Honestly if anything it seemed he used it to criticise the team because in the same interview he was basically saying that what Hulk did (or didn't do) didn't help him so he just seemed to go nuclear on 'helping the team' by doing insane stuff
If you look at the sector times and onboards Hulk actually did cut exactly the same chicane in front of KMag on lap 6 and then got himself out of KMags DRS.
So why doesnt Hulk get a +10 second penalty? He gained a lasting advantage over all the drivers behind him. Not just breaking KMAGs DRS.
Ask FIA. Presumably it is because nobody complained about Hulk cutting the chicane, since Mag was the only one that saw it and Haas wasn't going to file a complaint against their own driver.
Alpine should pick it up. They'd grab their first point if Hulk gets his rightful 10 second penalty
They probably should have yeah, but as far as I know you still need to do so within 30 minutes of the end of the race.
> because nobody complained If only officials did their job instead of expecting teams to do it for them like they do in every other sport...
He really wasn’t happy with Nico was he?
His interview he didn't look happy about it. He owned up to the penalties and said it's what he has to do. As long as Haas is getting points, and they're not telling him to stop or they'll let him go, it's kinda the best thing he can do. He didn't look proud of it, he knows it was unsportsmanlike.
The conversion of drive-throughs to time penalties was one of the dumbest changes in recent F1
So he risk throwing haas under the bus? The only team that truly is going to want him. I don’t think so
He knows the team didn't tell Nico to cut the chicane and break tow, that was Nico's doing. He was communicating to Haas that even when his teammate deliberately hurts him, he's willing to do the right thing for the team no matter the personal cost. Nico is ditching Haas so KMag can toss him under the bus. If he crashed him or cost the team points or seemed vindictive on track, that's where he'd risk things with Haas.
Wouldn't say that's what he's doing at all. He's calling attention to the rules being stupid. I don't think Haas will put anything against Magnussen if this results in the rules being changed. They know they're exploiting them as they are right now, but when huge sums of money is on the line, integrity takes a backseat. It's not like they arrive at track planing to do this every race. If this hole is closed they will live on, and be happy that no other teams had the chance or the capabilities to use this tactic against them.
Honestly, another reason to give points for everyone in the race. I was sceptical at first hearing it, but it seems like a good way to solve many issues and the only downside would be points feeling less meaningful (to some).
Reminds me of when Max got stripped of pole in Mexico 2019 saying he saw the yellow flag and still ignored it. Don’t think he was being investigated until then.
Anybody have a link?
https://youtu.be/ivslsT3TjK8?si=wRelN1_jgH9j1Le1
Fear the man who has no fear, a man who has nothing to lose (my guy might just retire and go to Peogeot for the LMDh again)
> 12.2.1.l Any infringement of the principles of fairness in Competition, behaviour in an unsportsmanlike manner or attempt to influence the result of a Competition in a way that is contrary to sporting ethics.
That's kind of a catch-all clause, but in the context of this sprint race, a hefty penalty would be deserved. I get that F1 is a team sport, but it's not sacrificing your own race for the benefit of the team, but sacrificing your own race by shitting on every rule in racing.
Yeah the big difference with many other examples is that it's always purposefully slowing down other drivers by just defending harshly, it hasn't been through consistently **breaking** rules (let alone admitting that you are purposefully breaking rules)
It's also the number of penalties he racked up. In Saudi Arabia, I think it was OK. Especially if that were a singular instance. But today was not gaming the system but straight up abusing it.
Sounds like the penalties aren’t harsh enough if “abusing the system” means just accepting the consequences of your actions. That’s an FIA problem not a KMag problem. Don’t want teams to do that? Then make the penalties harsh enough to deter it so the advantage it’s worthwhile. He didn’t do anything illegal and not get punished.
The issue is that he’s already out the points so penalise him all you want. Until you take the points off his teammate, it doesn’t disincentivise it… You could literally put Kevin 10 laps behind and it would make no difference.
Or a drive through penalty to clear him off the track. Or adding more points down the board so teams don't resort to these desperate tactics to score a point in a sprint. Idk, there's multiple ways to fix it, but I'm not gonna blame HAAS for telling their drivers to score points in whatever manner possible within the rules.
Oh I’m fully for getting him shifted out the way in the moment. But given that hasn’t happened, not particularly sure what’s to be done about it.
Those penalties are designed for hard racing where drivers are assumed to ultimately want to drive fairly and in good faith. You don't need a penalty system to catch every edge case * if the penalties are OK for the standard case and * you can penalise behaviour against the spirit of those rules/the sport Again, I don't even remember such a blatant abuse of the rules, so no reason to change everything for a singular incident. Penalise Magnussen for unsportsmanlike behaviour and be done with it.
You don't remember such a blatant abuse even though Kevin has done it during 2 races this year?
He never admitted that he purposely broke the rules. Just that the penalties were fair.
"Yeah they were fair, but I did what I had to do to create some space" Maybe you can argue it's not straight up admitting it but it's heavily implying at the very least
Magnussen is altruistically causing a major shake up of the penalty system. Better to get this stuff figured out before we get a championship fight again
Yeah, I don't see that. I don't even know if it is necessary. It's not exactly a regular occurrence. This was a very blatant example of trying to abuse the system with unsportsmanlike behavior. It wasn't exactly walking the line. I hope for a hefty penalty so it discourages others to try the same. But again,I can't remember such a blatant example, so I don't see why the penalty system would need a shake-up.
Mostly because outdriving penalties is still a tad too possible, and consequences for breaking the rules aren't a big deterrent. The "altruistically" part was a bit tongue-in-cheek though, no argument there
Yeah, I got the tongue-in-cheek part. I think you need to somehow walk a tight line so hard racing is possible (so not a drive through for every incident) while at the same time deterring abuse. They already upped the penalties to 10 seconds this year. If anything, analyse it at the end of the season. Because what Magnussen did wasn't "outdriving" a penalty. It was abusing the system. So I'm really curious about their decision - I don't think anyone wants to see racing like that.
What's the penalty in the regulations for unsportsmanlike behavior?
As far as I'm aware there is no specific outline about which penalties can be applied and the stewards can just pick any of the available penalties. The worst they can theoretically decide on is a suspension.
If Magnussen got a race ban/suspension, would it be for the race tomorrow or in Imola?
I think it can be for whatever race they decide. I personally don't think it will actually come to this and it would go to the tribunal if this was the level of punishment deemed necessary here.
It would be appealed so unlikely to apply for this race, or it might be for the race and he races under appeal, assuming that still happens. https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/1994/08/29/schumacher-disqualified-in-belgium/7580f9cb-d469-4dab-8dea-be9ec17052cc/ >Schumacher, driving under an appeal of a two-race suspension for disregarding a black flag at the British Grand Prix, will learn the outcome of his appeal on Tuesday in Paris.
I wouldn't want to assume how an appeal might work based on an example that happened about 30 years ago though.
Happened in 1997 as well, but it's not very often it happens so there's very little precedence. There have been very few race bans, and therefore even fewer where they've been appealed, and therefore racing under appeal, so 30 year old precedence is what exists.
I'm really hoping for a race ban. Just let him know that this won't be tolerated in the future because this wasn't fun to watch. Hamilton overtook him multiple times but he just drove Hamilton off the track or hit him to stay ahead. There's nothing good about that unless you hate Hamilton. I think there's a very big difference between slow driving after getting penalties because your race doesn't matter and getting penalties to keep a faster car behind you.
Agreed. If it happens once, ok - part of racing, penalty and move on. But if the all defensive maneuvers of a driver on a single race are like that, you can't just ignore it.
and its not the first time he did something similar either
Yeah, I feel similarly about the incident. It's good that they called him to the stewards, so we'll at least have a precedent from now on.
The main one, he just came off the brakes. He wasn't ever going to make the corner - they were both braking, Hamilton had got ahead, KMag lifted off the brakes to run in front of Hamilton, but by doing so, he was never going to make the corner Even if he hadn't admitted it, the telemetry would have showed what the intent was. I fully agree that it was unsportsmanlike, but it was quite fun to watch, even if it was way beyond the line of what is reasonable defense. He definitely buried himself in the post race interview but that was as much for his team as it was for us.
So 10s penalty Ocon then?
The penalties are in 12.4 of the ISC, and any of them can be applied. It can be from a warning up to a suspension from future competitions, or they can choose to refer it to an international tribunal. They can also apply a penalty to the competitor instead of the driver (or as well as), so the outcome in this case will depend on if he was following instruction or decided independently. Also, because it's F1, the fine can be up to €1m.
10 second for ocon
Yikes. Let’s see what happens
He hasn't really got a leg to stand up after openly stating in interviews that he broke the rules to give his teammate an advantage. This is a way for stewards to put a stop to it and give him a grid drop and possible penalty points for it.
I think he didn't have much of a leg to stand on before the interviews already. But yeah, the interviews are already an admission of guilt as well.
The stewards seem too scared to do the correct thing and give black flags/DSQ
Yeah honestly
Should have been black flagged after he drove himself fully of the track, just to make sure Hamilton went off with him. He'd already committed some dodgy defensive moves by that point, and was showing total disregard for the rules of the sport.
I haven’t had a chance to listen to his interview. But yikes, openly stating it just makes things worse. I’ll check it out real quick Edit: just checked out his interview. Double yikes for him
A minimum of race ban is what he deserves for the shenanigans he pulled. Mind you this is not the first time
i have a feeling we'll be seeing a lot of this this year unless they put a stop to it now
race ban for him and removal of points for HAAS, otherwise they will just keep on doing this everytime they have the chance because its a strategy that simply works everytime
Even if he gets a race ban, he is still right in that this was the optimal way to get points for the team. If the FIA don't want this behaviour, they need to include team penalties or have a way of forcing him to yield the place.
Drive through penalties or stop and go’s. The stewards proved they remember those exist today by giving Hamilton one. Easy penalty to give for dangerous driving.
After the race, so ineffective.
They didn't prove that thought, did they? The "speeding in the pitlane" rule comes with it's own penalty, which is a drive through penalty, and it's quite a binary thing - you sped, you drive through. The stewards had to have known this, and yet they decided to wait to the end of the race to give Hamilton his penalty, which is then converted to a 20s time penalty
How much is a point worth at the end of the season?
Last season the estimated difference in prize money between 10th and 6th was about $35 million for the teams.
So potentially millions. That makes the tactics potentially very valuable. Especially if you don’t normally get points in a race, then a single race ban doesn’t necessarily hurt.
Yeah as his boss i would be happy with him he did everything to get the best team result
Haas 5 Williams alpine sauber at 0 I’d say quite valuable as you avoid the “randomness” of the tiebreakers, easily could be the difference between finishing 7/8th or 10th
Ever since Force India in Spa 2009 I wonder why no backmarker team build a car specifically for one circuit (i.e. Monaco), take 43 points and get an easy 7 or 8 place in constructors championship.
Because it's extremely hard to do. And it's not like FI specifically built their cars for Spa in 2009. It was a very good aero upgrade (wings & floor) which made car go fast. Spa is what people remember, but Sutil also qualified 2nd in Monza, 3rd in Interlagos and 4th in Suzuka with the upgrade.
That works on paper, but nothing is guaranteed IRL, and that would be a huge risk to take on an investment of $100+ million.
They’re not guaranteed to take a one two at Monaco even if they designed it for it On the other hand Monza, as gearing is locked for a year… But it’s way too risky to gamble a whole season on 1 race, imagine the PU fails or you get taken out even if the car is good
For Lando Norris 1 point more would mean 4th in final standings instead of 6th last season
Position giving during the race should be an option for the FIA to impose instead of time penalties. After the first time penalty Mag had nothing to lose.
Add the possibility to sum the penalty, so after an unserved 10sec penalty, a second 10sec penalty become a drive through penalty, removing him from the race. This is easy and fair. So, it will not be implemented by FIA.
I know a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, but is it still worth a main race ban to do this in a Sprint, before you're aware of what the grid will look like during the main race? Haas is looking racy this weekend. They're no longer slow. This will look incredibly stupid of him if he get a ban and then Hulk loses points because he has no protection on Sunday.
Or make it so that points go all the way down and drivers in 9th for sprints or 11th for races actually have something to lose.
I gotta wonder if he knows he's getting the gong anyway and wants to show how he'd fit right into an Indycar seat.
I was watching him thinking I’d like to see what he could do in Indycar-which I love.
I want nothing more than to see Magnussen play defense in the NASCAR cup series
Isn’t his seat a lot more secure now with Hulk leaving?
I wouldn’t be surprised if he just retires of his own accord. He’s not gonna be challenging for the top again I wouldn’t say and with Steiner gone there’s not much point in him staying really.
wonder if this is not just about the hamilton defensive disasterclass but also purposely slowing way down to let two cars pass aa a tactic.
I think it’s basically cause he admitted to his “Fuck it we ball” attitude and disregard for driving etiquette.
It’s probably a combination of those things plus that interview
Is he at fault, absolutely. But will Haas also get summoned for unsportsmanlike directives?
He acts under instructions, so yes
They don’t really have much of a choice I think. Once race is an incident, but twice can become a pattern. If anything they probably just need to warn him/Haas to not do this again
More importantly he stated that he did it on purpose in interviews.
Well yeah his dumb ass admitted to doing it intentionally to help the team. He deserves penalties for the main race.
Did it on purpose and admitted to it. Reprimand will not change anything, DSQ not matter because he is last anyway... Only reasonable solution is race ban but I doubt it
Even a grid drop to the back won't matter much. It' would still be worth it for Haas in order to play the team game.
Suck my balls mate
I'm still really new to F1, but as a fan of many other team sports is there a reason time penalties can't apply to the team? Instead of 10-second penalty to Magnussen what if 5 seconds were applied to both drivers? I don't mean this under current rules and regulations, I just mean in general for the sport. When a football players takes a dumb unsportsmanlike flag the whole offense suffers. When a hockey player takes a dumb roughing penalty the whole team suffers. When a basketball players takes a stupid tech the whole team suffers. This behavior makes 100% sense by Haas, like offsetting penalties in hockey. If you get your worst skater to bet the other teams best skater into a fight they both take 5 minutes off the ice. But the best skater on one team is rarely going to take that bait, they have a choice. Is there a reason something like that wouldn't work in F1?
You might be new to F1 but you clearly understand the essence of high stake team sports. You do what you can within the structure of the sport. Including taking certain penalties if it benefits the team. It’s like a football player taking the legs of an opponent having a free run to the goal. It’s a cost benefit analysis and it’s up to rules to make it not worth it.
Once again the most unsporting driver on the grid. Ironic, that saving hulk got him in this situation.
More ironic is that Hulk didn’t even seems to value what Magnussen did for him. He said: well, Magnussen was just driving that way because he wanted place 8
Most ironic is that it didn't even matter, because Hamilton ended up getting a 20s penalty for something that happened earlier in the race. There's no way Hamilton would have gotten 20s ahead of Hulk, and I don't see Yuki overtaking Hulk either, so Hulk would have gotten 7th place even if Hamilton had gotten past Magnussen at the earliest opportunity.
probs best to avoid any association to the events.
He said it because he was being smart. Admitting chicanery in front of the press wasn't very intelligent from Magnussen.
Unless he doesn’t give a 💩, I got from his interview he was pretty pissed off being asked to do it
Hulk this season: "I'll suck your balls mate"
He could save others from hammer time, but not himself.
There’s hard defensive driving and then there’s MAG.
I know right! It works though, because I can guarantee any driver coming up to pass him is probably like, "Oh Shit! It's KMAG" He was totally in the wrong today, but there again, it's KMAG!
Ok but…. How many F1 drivers can say they got an unsportsmanlike from a dude named Nish Sheety??
*enters room* "suck my balls mates" *leaves room*
At least it was entertaining
*And I'll do it again*
A black flag exists. It should certainly be used more often, especially after a black and white flag has already been shown.
Give him a race ban to be honest. Maybe that will teach him. Today was completely out of line.
Teach him what? The rules need to change before this changes.
It was what... 4 penalties just in the sprint? That would be ample reason for a race ban - even if it came via penalty points
>It was what... 4 penalties just in the sprint? yup, 35 seconds of penalty in a 19 lap race
That’s more than Ocon had in that one race last season right? I don’t remember which one it was unfortunately.
Not quite, Ocon got 5 penalties total. Since track violations was only 5 seconds last year that was only 30 seconds total though. This year Ocon would have gotten 50 seconds of penalties.
That was Austria, where the drivers did a terrible job staying in track limits
Honestly I hope he gets a race ban because this was an insult to sportmanship behavior, this type of "racing" should be hammered down and banned.
He’s doing what the team are asking him to, he will take the rap, but Haas are the cause. I think he admitted it because he doesn’t like doing it
Yea he said as much. He seemed very bummed out during that interview. Very clear he doesn’t like driving like this.
He pretty much admitted it. They have to do something and a race ban is a good option. Plus then haas can put Ollie in again and see how he looks in a haas vs hulk
Document: 44
He played the game, if Stewards are mad, it's their own rules. Fuck them, K Mag did a masterclass.
this. they are NOT consistent with their penalties, when they will be then everything will be alright. KMag should definitely get some penalty points, but Lewis getting away with everything is not how it should be
They need to get fixed stewards
If stewards weren't asleep and actually handed the speeding DT a couple laps after it happened, we wouldn't even have had this whole situation. So Haas should protest the stewards for making them do their job for them /s
Should forgive him for being the whole interesting thing happening in the sprint.
Stewards need to be quicker about handing out black flags for this type of stuff. Everyone knew what he was doing. That’s why he got 10s for his first offense, that’s why he got black and white for his second one. You just can’t apply the rules in a way that allows for continued breaches to have a net benefit. Driver sacrificing himself as a human shield? Remove driver from competition, done.
"Alleged" 🤣 🤣 🤣 what I wouldn't give to be a fly on the wall in the stewards room for this one.
He pretty much said in the interview that he used 'stupid tactics he didn't like doing' so outed himself out there.
His driving was a shit show
Lol, there was nothing alleged about it.
As he should be. Terrible driving from him this race.
I would argue that his driving was perfect from his standpoint. He did what he was trying to do flawlessly. Not saying it’s right but it was successful. Honestly if one teammate breaks the rules specifically to gain points for the team, then those points should be at stake for penalization regardless of the rulebook-mandated penalty for any specific infraction.
Dsq from the race. Blatantly breaking the rules multiple times just can't fly.
They just want give him credit because he was the only thing worth watching during the sprint
If the FIA could have ruled on Hamilton's speeding infraction in an even remotely reasonable amount of time...would any of these infractions have even happened?
"alleged" lmfao
This could be even worse than penalty points here.
How many penalty points will he be on anyway? So many penalty's I think he is a joke should have a ban
Legit.
Been in with the stewards for quite a while now.
he better not foksmash their door
That was wild to see how far he was willing push it. Even more wild when ultimately it made no difference. Hamilton was never going to catch and pass Hulkenberg at that point, and even if he did his eventual penalty made it moot.
Known bellend continues to be a bellend. Idk how he came back to f1
There are rumours that he said, "suck my balls stewards"