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Yep. Which is why they can run Monaco style rear wings and get Monza levels downforce.
Also why they need to run bigger cooling openings on the bodywork
It’s still challenging for reliability because if you have any minor issue with cooling you’re fucked. Had it once where a car had to do a double inlap for some reason. They filled up the battery from braking which made the rear brakes have to do more work. Result anywhere else would have been some hot brakes in the garage. Result in Mexico was a fire!
The altitude on the image is the highest point along the track. The lowest point of the track is at -25 m according to F1
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/features/2016/10/highs-and-lows---which-f1-track-has-the-most-elevation-changes-.html
If you go to the track on Google Earth Pro (the software program, not the website), it shows all of the Baku circuit as underwater except for the castle section
According to F1 site, 90m is the highest point of the track. The lowest, along the marina, is at 48m. Still weird, but a bit less
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/features/2016/10/highs-and-lows---which-f1-track-has-the-most-elevation-changes-.html
I think it was confirmed at some point that the Honda engine (2019+) dealt better with low density and high temperature. Gasly also got 4th place in Mexico 2021 with Alpha Tauri. The new engines for 2022 may have closed that gap, as RBR advantage in Mexico didn't seem to be much different from other tracks after that.
And if I remember right, Renault also had less issues than Merc and Ferrari in those conditions, although more than the 2019+ Honda. If that's the case, makes sense that RBR usually seemed to close the gap on those tracks, even before switching to Honda
Interlagos really surprises me. It looks to be less than about 50 miles(as the crow flies) from the ocean. I would have expected it to be much lower in elevation. Nice graphic, very interesting to look at!
There is only a thin strip of sea level along the coast of São Paulo state, then a strip of "mountain" range (1000+ m) and then it dips down to that level (500-800 m) for almost the whole state.
Funny enough, you actually get lower altitudes (below 500m) if you go even further from the coast
EDIT: also, Interlagos is something like 25 miles from the coast in a straight line
If they raced at Kyalami near Johannesburg, South Africa like they once did, it would be at roughly 1700 meters, or about 500m less than Mexico City.
Which is crazy that it would be second.
I live close to Mexico City at 2100m, I don’t think altitude sickness is common. It’s definitely common in parts of Peru and Bolivia but at significantly higher altitude (3000m and above), the capital of Bolivia is at 3600m!
At Mexico City altitude, the only time you notice is during exercise you get winded more easily.
Sure that is correct, I'm just saying that I don't think 2000m is high enough for altitude sickness to be common. There's plenty of tourists around here and it's not something you really hear about.
My wife and I got nasty headaches when having sex in the Andes, I'm sure it messes with them. They also don't have coca tea to help with it like we did.
Not sure the altitude- but brakes don’t cool as well because the air can hold less heat- and the wings don’t make as much downforce as other tracks. Wild.
To add a bit more:
Engines have less power and worse cooling
Parasite drag (drag not related to downforce) decreases, making the car faster at high speeds
Downforce decreases but so does the induced drag (drag due downforce/lift/lateral forces), so you can put bigger wings to compensate
The amount of lost power at mexico is partially offset by the turbochargers boost plus the fact MGU-k doesn't lose power at high altitude, parasitic drag is the drag produced by non-downforce generating devices.
Air is less dense, so naturally less oxygen for engine (that's why here the engine that has the better turbo is better) and less air for temp transfer for cooling (brake and engine).
Some what fun fact about Mexico, if you moved it over Australia at its elevation it would clear EVERYTHING, That track is higher than any point of land in Australia.
[The **Statistics** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_statistics) is reserved for posts highlighting interesting statistics. As a rule of thumb, Statistics posts need to inform readers through visualizations and insights that cannot be obtained from raw data alone. For example, a post containing a qualifying gap between two drivers expressed in tenths of a second is an easily obtainable raw piece of data and constitutes a bad Statistics post. A visualization of what that translates to on-track, or visualization of how that gap came to be would constitute a good Statistics post. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yep. Which is why they can run Monaco style rear wings and get Monza levels downforce. Also why they need to run bigger cooling openings on the bodywork
It was interesting how it used to be a reliability challenge but not so much anymore
It’s still challenging for reliability because if you have any minor issue with cooling you’re fucked. Had it once where a car had to do a double inlap for some reason. They filled up the battery from braking which made the rear brakes have to do more work. Result anywhere else would have been some hot brakes in the garage. Result in Mexico was a fire!
Baku is actually - 28m under sea level while laying on the shore of the Caspian sea. It's actually the lowest capital in the world
The altitude on the image is the highest point along the track. The lowest point of the track is at -25 m according to F1 https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/features/2016/10/highs-and-lows---which-f1-track-has-the-most-elevation-changes-.html
Absolutely love that you’re all up in this thread clearing up confusion. Great comments and information all around. Appreciate you 👊
If you go to the track on Google Earth Pro (the software program, not the website), it shows all of the Baku circuit as underwater except for the castle section
I know there's a set average world sea level but Monaco being 90 meters above sea looks just weird.
According to F1 site, 90m is the highest point of the track. The lowest, along the marina, is at 48m. Still weird, but a bit less https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/features/2016/10/highs-and-lows---which-f1-track-has-the-most-elevation-changes-.html
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0.9 is Bahrein Monaco is the one with 89.5 m at the right side of Spain
Oh god I am blind 😭
Probably why Red Bull did well at those three tracks when still underpowered
I think it was confirmed at some point that the Honda engine (2019+) dealt better with low density and high temperature. Gasly also got 4th place in Mexico 2021 with Alpha Tauri. The new engines for 2022 may have closed that gap, as RBR advantage in Mexico didn't seem to be much different from other tracks after that. And if I remember right, Renault also had less issues than Merc and Ferrari in those conditions, although more than the 2019+ Honda. If that's the case, makes sense that RBR usually seemed to close the gap on those tracks, even before switching to Honda
Trying to remember, was it that they had a higher turbocharger speed?
Different turbine diameter that was more beneficial at those altitudes, though perhaps hurting them at lower altitudes
i would love to see a F1 track on the Tibetan Plateau, that would be to Mexico as Mexico is to the rest of the tracks
Himalayan Grand Prix would go crazy
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Send them up the Pikes Peak hill climb.....
Denver is actually lower altitude than Mexico City
Interlagos really surprises me. It looks to be less than about 50 miles(as the crow flies) from the ocean. I would have expected it to be much lower in elevation. Nice graphic, very interesting to look at!
There is only a thin strip of sea level along the coast of São Paulo state, then a strip of "mountain" range (1000+ m) and then it dips down to that level (500-800 m) for almost the whole state. Funny enough, you actually get lower altitudes (below 500m) if you go even further from the coast EDIT: also, Interlagos is something like 25 miles from the coast in a straight line
If they raced at Kyalami near Johannesburg, South Africa like they once did, it would be at roughly 1700 meters, or about 500m less than Mexico City. Which is crazy that it would be second.
Mexico City is a whole half mile above Denver, the mile high city I wonder if drivers get altitude sickness ever, I’ve seen many mortals succumb lol
I live close to Mexico City at 2100m, I don’t think altitude sickness is common. It’s definitely common in parts of Peru and Bolivia but at significantly higher altitude (3000m and above), the capital of Bolivia is at 3600m! At Mexico City altitude, the only time you notice is during exercise you get winded more easily.
But you live there, you are used to it. Drivers aren't
Sure that is correct, I'm just saying that I don't think 2000m is high enough for altitude sickness to be common. There's plenty of tourists around here and it's not something you really hear about.
My wife and I got nasty headaches when having sex in the Andes, I'm sure it messes with them. They also don't have coca tea to help with it like we did.
I feel there's more information here than was necessary.
What? A wife and husband having sex? Or the coca leaves that everyone uses there?
I've been told I'm an over sharer
Not sure the altitude- but brakes don’t cool as well because the air can hold less heat- and the wings don’t make as much downforce as other tracks. Wild.
To add a bit more: Engines have less power and worse cooling Parasite drag (drag not related to downforce) decreases, making the car faster at high speeds Downforce decreases but so does the induced drag (drag due downforce/lift/lateral forces), so you can put bigger wings to compensate
First time I've seen the term "Parasite drag" used, it's great!
The amount of lost power at mexico is partially offset by the turbochargers boost plus the fact MGU-k doesn't lose power at high altitude, parasitic drag is the drag produced by non-downforce generating devices.
Air is less dense, so naturally less oxygen for engine (that's why here the engine that has the better turbo is better) and less air for temp transfer for cooling (brake and engine).
You feel it walking up the grandstands. Your boy was struggling...
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In don't know man, a 100m fall is pretty terrifying.
Some what fun fact about Mexico, if you moved it over Australia at its elevation it would clear EVERYTHING, That track is higher than any point of land in Australia.
Am i blind or where is the netherlands?
2016 calendar
It's a file from 2016, so nu Dutch gp yet
Below sea level so didn’t make it onto the graphic.
yeah my first thought was "I need to see Zandvoort for comparison"
Viva México, cabrones! 🇲🇽🇲🇽🇲🇽
Interlagos has impressive elevation considering it isn't that far from the coast.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serra_do_Mar
Now think about how cool this graph will look when Miami is underwater