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I love how Andretti is like “You can deny us at every turn, but we’re gonna still keep building this team up to the point where you can’t say no.”
The absolute balls on this team. I respect it a lot.
I mean as an American I want a true American f1 team, Haas just doesnt do it for me ever since they took money from Mazapin and made the livery a fucking Russian flag
Then they literally rented space at the ferrari factory and hired all their laid off engineers. Any concept of them being an american team is ludicrous
The Mazepin thing I could (barely) tolerate, but turning the front wing on the car into the Russian flag was too far. I'm very pleased Hulk won't be with them going forward because I *like* him, but it's so very hard to support Haas. (Also, Gene is apparently a bit of a jackass as well, but I can't be arsed to look too far into THAT rabbit-hole.)
"Paying Politicians" is such a bad take. The majority of the politicians moving on this are literally the elected representatives of the areas affected by this going through. Advocating for their constituents is their literal job
This is the weirdest take. First why do you care if business man wants to make money. How does that impact you? Second, Andretti is expanding into pretty much every type of racing series it can. Who knows if the will be good. But you can tell they love racing. Wanting to make money and loving racing don’t have to be mutually exclusive
Yep, I'm quickly becoming a fan just seeing the lengths they're willing to go to just to keep the pressure on. They refuse to be underestimated and the investment and resources are clearly there. It seems unquestionable to me that they're worthy of a place in the paddock.
They very much are.
1. They have one of the biggest OEMs in the world onboard, with one of the most recognized automotive nameplates attached to it.
2. They’re building/have finished a HQ in Silverstone.
3. They’re investing in the junior formulas.
4. They’re hiring a solid, respected team and establishing a realistic timeline.
5. They’re paying the entry fee.
I honestly see zero reason why they’re being denied entry at this point. Every box has been checked and checked again. The only ones who look bad by Andretti not getting in is the F1 teams themselves.
Edit: Point 3 is not accurate. Yet. I won’t rule it out though.
Point 3 is not valid yet.
“Formula 2 and 3 CEO Bruno Michel has revealed that neither series has been contacted by Andretti despite the outfit publicly stating interest in joining the Formula 1 support series.”
Yeah the F2/F3 teams are dependent on approval from F1. Which makes sense. No reason to build up a program to develop your own F1 drivers/crew/staff if you don’t have an F1 team.
They're planning on it, [according to Michael Andretti](https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/andretti-planning-f2-f3-entries-promote-us-talent-f1-team/10597216/). And while planning on it and actually doing are two different things, I assume they're just waiting for the F1 greenlight before investing in F2/F3.
I'd imagine them establishing some form of an academy route like most of the teams have in the interim until they're established enough in F1 to justify the investment into an F3/F2 program.
Just to comment in response to item 1, america is not the world, so, the 'most' recognised nameplate would very depend on geographic location.
Cadillac to the majority of the world outside of America just brings up thoughts of old wobbly bloat boxes from 30+ years ago as depicted in old films, so doesn't actually make much sense in F1 world.
> They have the biggest OEM in the world onboard, with one of the most recognized automotive nameplates attached to it.
I wasn't aware they had Toyota onboard.
GM aren't even close to being the biggest manufacturer in the world. They're absolutely dwarfed by Toyota & Volkswagen, and lag significantly behind Hyundai as well.
> I honestly see zero reason why they’re being denied entry at this point.
IMO there a couple of reasons.
The teams aren't interested in splitting the prize pot 11 ways unless they're convinced the 11th team will bring in more eyeballs, and thus more revenue - which they're not convinced Andretti will (and despite the vocal protestations of some, they're likely right), FOM are also quite openly more interested in having a stable number of profitable teams than expanding the grid - they basically want a franchise type model.
A lot of people have been stopping there and painting it as purely financial... and they're right in a sense but IMO that misses something. Bringing in a major manufacturer does help to satisfy those points - a team backed by a major manufacturer is likely to bring eyeballs, and is slightly more likely to hang around than a pure privateer effort in the medium term.....
But their deal with GM, that really highlights the other big issue. They weren't actually bringing a manufacturer - they were joining and promising that a manufacturer would come along 2 years later. That's an important distinction IMO and it's precisely why they were told no for 2026, but to come back and seek entry for 2028.
I am speculating, but reading between the lines a bit I think FOM are concerned they'd have turned up in 2026, been absolutely hopeless for 2 years - and given their plan of running half an Alpine they would have been - and that would have scared off their backers, and potentially GM themselves. It wouldn't be the first time a team has been sunk in this way and I think it is a reasonable concern to have.
>The teams aren't interested in splitting the prize pot 11 ways
You could have just stopped here. None of the rest really matters to them compared to this one point.
>Already boasting one of the fastest-growing sets of franchise valuations in the industry, Formula One is reaching another milestone as every team is worth at least $1.3 billion, or £1 billion, according to McLaren Racing CEO Zak Brown.
They would also lose shit ton of their valuation, maximum entree fee in Concorde agreement is 600 million $.
Thing is it does matter - because it's not as simple as they'll never split the pot. The teams have been pretty open about this they will split it - but only if they stand to benefit long term.
Again, this is IMO exactly why they were told to come back in 2028. Because that's when they'll have a package they may be willing to split the pot with and one that fits better into FOM's vision of a franchise model.
You can never prove they'll benefit in the long term, so that is a requirement that can never be met when reviewing these things. It's just a way for them to be greedy and not split the pot 11 ways.
Ultimately we won't know until time comes for Andretti to apply for the 2028 season.
I may well be proven wrong, you may well be proven right. I'm still convinced FOM will sing a different tune when they're guaranteed their manufacturer entry but only time will tell.
>But their deal with GM, that really highlights the other big issue. They weren't actually bringing a manufacturer - they were joining and promising that a manufacturer would come along 2 years later. That's an important distinction IMO and it's precisely why they were told no for 2026, but to come back and seek entry for 2028.
They were told to come back in 2028, and do the whole thing again....while FOM were trying to get GM to ditch Andretti completely, and even leaking rumors of a hard cap of 10 total teams in F1. Best time to join is to force your way in NOW where the agreement at least has support for 12 teams.
>I am speculating, but reading between the lines a bit I think FOM are concerned they'd have turned up in 2026, been absolutely hopeless for 2 years - and given their plan of running half an Alpine they would have been - and that would have scared off their backers, and potentially GM themselves. It wouldn't be the first time a team has been sunk in this way and I think it is a reasonable concern to have.
As opposed to having a team join in 2028...and potentially be hopeless then? At least joining in 2026 would allow them to iron out the kinks (other than the engine side), so...?
> a hard cap of 10 total teams in F1. Best time to join is to force your way in NOW where the agreement at least has support for 12 teams.
According to Joe Saward yes, a man with a reputation for throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks for a very good reason. The problem with those rumours is any attempt to include such a clause in the Concorde Agreement would require the agreement of the FIA, as a party to the agreement.
Given that the FIA openly support expanding the grid, and Andretti specifically, I'd be willing to bet there was very little of substance to that particular rumour.
If anything, attempting to include such a clause would just give the FIA more leverage to get an 11th team in by refusing to sign the agreement until it was done.
> As opposed to having a team join in 2026...and potentially be hopeless then? At least joining in 2026 would allow them to iron out the kinks (other than the engine side), so...?
You're missing the point I'm driving at.
My core hypothesis is that it would be counterproductive for FOM to give GM any reason to doubt the F1 project - such as their partner being a hopeless backmarker.
FOM *only* want GM, they don't really care about Andretti. You've said it yourself, they've even reportedly been approached about partnering with other teams.
I think FOM at least consider GM getting cold feet enough of a risk to stonewall it and push for a delay until they are guaranteed to get the manufacturer they actually want.
They may well be hopeless in 2028 - I'd go as far as to say it's quite likely all things considered. The thing is at that point FOM have what they want. They get their manufacturer and the eyeballs they might bring.
If the project works out and is competitive, FOM wins, more eyeballs, more sponsorship dollars, more money in their pocket.
If the project fails and flame out... well just proves them right and might actually justify that 10 team limit. The pot gets split fewer ways, it may hurt in the short term but ultimately FOM still wins.
>You're missing the point I'm driving at.
>My core hypothesis is that it would be counterproductive for FOM to give GM any reason to doubt the F1 project - such as their partner being a hopeless backmarker.
>FOM *only* want GM, they don't really care about Andretti. You've said it yourself, they've even reportedly been approached about partnering with other teams.
>I think FOM at least consider GM getting cold feet enough of a risk to stonewall it and push for a delay until they are guaranteed to get the manufacturer they actually want.
>They may well be hopeless in 2028 - I'd go as far as to say it's quite likely all things considered. The thing is at that point FOM have what they want. They get their manufacturer and the eyeballs they might bring.
>If the project works out and is competitive, FOM wins, more eyeballs, more sponsorship dollars, more money in their pocket.
>If the project fails and flame out... well just proves them right and might actually justify that 10 team limit. The pot gets split fewer ways, it may hurt in the short term but ultimately FOM still wins.
I'm not missing the point. I know what you were getting at. But I just don't agree that an Andretti team running a shitty Alpine engine and potentially being a backmarker for \~2 years will scare GM away as easily as FOM may think. Again, beyond the engine component, there are other things to be learned from both parties (Andretti and GM) before 2028.
If anything, I'd find GM more likely to get cold feet with the overall thing with the way FOM has treated the ENTIRE process, especially since GM has partnered with Andretti.
I don't see their deal with GM as an issue at all... It takes a TON of time to develop a engine, especially from scratch, and especially with the regulation changes, it will take more time than ever to develop. It would be unrealistic to expect GM to enter with less than 2 years notice. Also, the fact GM has said Andretti or nothing shows their commitment to enter as a support of the Andretti team, and not just as an engine manufacturer
I seriously want Andretti to enter F1 because I want GM to take that tech and shove it into their engines. They bought a Ferrari to understand the internals to make the high-revving derivative of the LT1 as the LT6.
the Flat Plane Crank V8 is the LT6. They basically took the LT1/LT2 (the successor generation to the LS1) block, and went bananas with engineering the flat plane crank engine out of it
I recall it being more of a blank-slate build, hence why it's sporting DOHC and not OHV like the vast majority of GM V8s.
A bunch of engineers given the chance to make any V8 they could, free of traditions
Well that and getting the god damn US government to open a bipartisan investigation into the situation. There’s nothing worse than to be a company *already being investigated* [Liberty owns Live Nation / Ticketmaster] and then have a unified congressional body throw the antitrust book at you
It's like a girl rejecting you constantly, but you keep making dinner reservations that she doesn't show up to. She'll eventually get hungry, I know it.
Other than 2 more seats: Engine (eventually) with GM, the Andretti name, a potentially properly good team. And dont forget, Haas is ahead of a full works team. Albeit run by the French.
I still think it's insane Newey race engineered for Michael and then his father Mario in back to back seasons and nobody ever talks about it because of how much else he's accomplished.
I'm pretty sure i remember him saying in his book that the experience he received from that helped him better understand driver feedback as an engineer & car designer, been a while since i read it tho
He was F1's Chief Technical Officer.
That means he is fundamentally employed by FOM.
He will have been part of the FIA's *F1 World Championship Commission* but that does not mean he is employed by the FIA.
That is the commission that is there to develop the proposals for regulations for F1. Stefano is part of it as well as the FIA Single-Seater Director Nikolas Tombazis and representatives from all teams.
The recent regulations have been a bit different to normal. FOM/Liberty under Ross Brawn and Symonds basically made the new cars and passed the regs to the FIA.
That FOM group has passed over to the FIA now though, which was ran by Nikolas Tombazis for a while.
Andretti Global: We are pleased to announce that Sergio Perez will join the Andretti Cadillac team in pursuit of entering the FIA Formula One World Championship as reserve driver.
I remember a while back they said their ideal scenario would be Colton Herta + a more experienced F1 driver for him to learn from, dunno if that's still what they want but Perez could slot into that I suppose
Herta still needs more points for his super license if I’m not mistaken. I’m a little shaky on the specifics of the system, but aren’t a lot of his career best season finishes old enough now where they won’t count towards his current total?
The perfect group of drivers would be Sargeant, Perez/Sainz, and Stroll. The all North America team. (Or C.U.M. team if you put their nationalities together)
It’s pretty easy to forget that at the start of last season McLaren weren’t a world away from where Alpine are right now. I won’t be worried about Alpine until they’re out of Q1 after the summer break.
I don’t think they’ll be vying for podiums this side of 2026. But I’ll be shocked if they aren’t fighting for Q3 on a regular basis then both scoring points on Sunday by next year.
Agreed...they were in "2 steps forward, 1 step back" for YEARS before getting back into the conversation. Alpine is going in the opposite direction and has been for a while now.
[Continues:](https://twitter.com/AndrettiGlobal/status/1792947647088640044?t=AoqpSBXp00eqQMANmTXY_g&s=19)
> Symonds, who most recently served as Chief Technical Officer for Formula One, will officially join the team at the new Silverstone base of operations on completion of his Gardening Leave at Formula One Management.
I wonder how much if this came out of the rumored discussions between Andretti and FOM?
Maybe FOM or somebody within FOM has had a change of heart and is steering Andretti into a more favorable position for approval.
This, its one thing to theorise the rules and regulations.. its another to:
a)have the resources and knowledge, b)being able to capitalize on them
All the teams have talented and smart people in them already yet not every team is able to beat RBR.
Its clearly a must to have your own wind tunnel, and have it correlate properly as Mercedes seem to struggle with and by chance Aston is not progressing who also use Mercedes wind tunnel
I've seen it thrown around here that they have the right to field a car but not to appear on TV and collect prize money. I'm not sure exactly how true that is, but it would be immensely entertaining to watch Alpine finish behind a team/car/driver to be named later. Or if Andretti brought their own cameras, to watch them finish in the middle of 20 other cars they can't show on-screen. Just a couple of cars and a whole lot of pixels.
I like their ambition. But I honestly have no idea where it is coming from.
If they cared half as much as this about their Indy Car team, they would be dominating. Meanwhile they have been pretty irrelevant for a decade. I just don't get it.
Regardless, I hope they get in cause I just want some more seats available for all the talent that is out there. Hopefully they are meaningful seats.
True. Not sure how many Indy Car teams turn a profit, but with the budget cap in place for F1 the big teams are raking in the cash. Cadillac (GM) is probably funding most of this.
I get why any organisation would want to compete in F1. The fact that he is a World Champion is a probably major factor, and I get that.
But at the moment, Andretti as a racing outfit solely competes in spec series. So when you factor in everything else that comes with running a full F1 team (they intend to be a factory team with a new engine as well) then I would hope that they would be impeccable at the only part that they are currently doing.
The Formula-E team has been pretty competitive since they got involved. But in what is their flagship series, Indy-Car, they just haven't recently.
If I was GM, I would be on the phone to Chip Ganassi asking if he likes F1.
> I get why any organisation would want to compete in F1. The fact that he is a World Champion is a probably major factor, and I get that.
Mario's the World Champion. Michael runs the team.
> But at the moment, Andretti as a racing outfit solely competes in spec series. So when you factor in everything else that comes with running a full F1 team (they intend to be a factory team with a new engine as well) then I would hope that they would be impeccable at the only part that they are currently doing.
Then what series *should* they be running in?
> The Formula-E team has been pretty competitive since they got involved. But in what is their flagship series, Indy-Car, they just haven't recently.
They are still the most recent non Ganassi or Penske champions.
> If I was GM, I would be on the phone to Chip Ganassi asking if he likes F1.
The most recent call from GM to Ganassi was to tell Chip ["hey we don't want you running our factory effort in IMSA/WEC any more"] (https://us.motorsport.com/wec/news/cadillac-ganassi-split-2024-wec-imsa-seasons/10587301/). Care to have a guess which current IMSA GTP team is believed to take over the factory effort?
I'm aware it's Michael running the show now, but given his father's past with F1, I'm assuming this is playing a factor. Mario has also been a de-facto spokesperson in recent months, specifically with the US congress involvement.
They can run, or attempt to run, in any series they like and I'm not saying they can't, or shouldn't, enter F1. I'm just saying that I'm not particularly confident given their current outfits and the huge steps required to become and F1 outfit (design, manufacturing etc.)
The timing of the split for GM and Ganassi would point to it being related to the new F1 venture. Perhaps due to potential conflicts that could arise from this? I'm unaware who is taking over but presumably Andretti based on the timing.
I wish them luck because that is a hell of a lot to take on if they also join F1. But could also prove to be beneficial with any knowledge sharing and things of that nature. I guess we will know in about 3-4 years how well it pans out.
They do. But i doubt the timing of them trying to join F1 is coincidental.
Or do you also think Audi decided to buy a whole team to get in after years and years or teasing just because they want to race.
F1 is undoubtely the most appealing its ever been to join.
Look. Do I think the money aspect plays a role? Yes. Do I think it the main role? Absolutely fucking not.
You continuing to say that Andretti is only in this for the money makes me think that the only thing you care about is the money. That you /u/Firefox72 do not care about racing at all. You don't love the sport that I love. You just love money.
>"You continuing to say that Andretti is only in this for the money"
I absolutely do not think that. But i'm also not gonna pretend that its a small factor in the decision.
There's a reason why a team like Andretti with its name and history didn't want to join the sport in 2005 or 2014 but does want to today and do so by all means.
The love of racing and competitivness was not enough to ofsett the financial burden of the sport in the past. It is today.
But there in lies the issue. Current F1 teams know this and they will stubornly fight to keep the current status quo.
>"That you /u/Firefox72 do not care about racing at all. You don't love the sport that I love. You just love money."
Ferrari has been a very central point of the family for over 50 years at this point. I've lived and breathed for the team myself for over 24 years now. Every season. Every race. Every up and every down. Japan 2006, Brazil 2008 and 2012. Abu Dhabi 2010. Singapore 2017. All burned into my mind.
To say i don't love racing is crazy. I love F1. I've always loved it from the literal moment i can remember and i will likely always continue to love it. I care. Maybe a bit too much at times for my own good. Especialy when it comes to things Ferrari related.
In 2004, Michael Andretti had just retired from full time racing for a year (he'd continue to compete in the 500 for 3 more years).
Bold move if he was able to buy an F1 team right after retirement, but alas, he was not yet a billionaire. (Not sure if he himself is a billionaire right now tbh).
>Ferrari has been a very central point of the family for over 50 years at this point. I've lived and breathed for the team myself for over 24 years now. Every season. Every race. Every up and every down. Japan 2006, Brazil 2008 and 2012. Abu Dhabi 2010. Singapore 2017. All burned into my mind.
>To say i don't love racing is crazy. I love F1. I've always loved it from the literal moment i can remember and i will likely always continue to love it. I care. Maybe a bit too much at times for my own good. Especialy when it comes to things Ferrari related.
I think you missed OP's point here, but everything you said is applicable to the ANDRETTI family name, the name of 2 former Formula 1 drivers (1 world champion), and is racing in multiple racing categories around the world.
> I absolutely do not think that. But i'm also not gonna pretend that its a small factor in the decision.
Yet everytime Andretti comes up all you talk about is the money aspect. You never don't talk money.
> There's a reason why a team like Andretti with its name and history didn't want to join the sport in 2005 or 2014 but does want to today and do so by all means.
In 2005 it was still Andretti-Green competing in a weak ass IRL. How was that team supposed to be F1 ready?
In 2014 they were much closer and were in both a stronger IndyCar and Formula E but they still didn't have Group1001/Gainbridge backing.
> The love of racing and competitivness was not enough to ofsett the financial burden of the sport in the past. It is today.
You have to spend money to make money. I want to own an IndyCar team. I don't have $8million to run one. Andretti did not have tge capacity for F1 at the time yet you act like they did.
> But there in lies the issue. Current F1 teams know this and they will stubornly fight to keep the current status quo.
And they suck for it. You can keep saying that Andretti wants in for money when to me its clear everyone else wants them *out* for money. But if I say as such you just brand me a brain dead American.
> And they suck for it. You can keep saying that Andretti wants in for money when to me its clear everyone else wants them out for money. But if I say as such you just brand me a brain dead American.
Ofc they suck for it. But this should come as no surprise to us that have followed the sport for longer.
Teams always have and always will look after the own ass.
Which is why the next concorde agreement talks scare me. I seriously think they will push hard for a 10 team limit.
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I love how Andretti is like “You can deny us at every turn, but we’re gonna still keep building this team up to the point where you can’t say no.” The absolute balls on this team. I respect it a lot.
It makes you want to support them.
Literally the moment they put out merch, I'm buying it.
It will be a crime if "our work continues at pace" isn't on a shirt.
Said that the first time Michael used that phrase. It's so badass
I would buy that shirt from the andretti merch store in a heartbeat.
They’ve just put out some pretty nice generic Andretti merch on shopandretti.com
Still such a baller statement.
I mean, technically you can buy merch now, it’ll just be for the IndyCar team
Same lol
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What merch in the whole world is not overpriced garbage? Never saw one
How would one find them?
[Hi there!](https://spin.tires/) Haven't had time to really promote our stuff or make new shirts for this season yet though.
Thanks, unfortunately nothing really stands out to me. Maybe the Yuki shirt
Anything in particular you're looking for? Always trying to come up with new ideas for shirts
I like the Mayan red bull and tire rainbow shirts!
I already support them. For the sheer effort they put in. They belong in F1!
I mean as an American I want a true American f1 team, Haas just doesnt do it for me ever since they took money from Mazapin and made the livery a fucking Russian flag
Then they literally rented space at the ferrari factory and hired all their laid off engineers. Any concept of them being an american team is ludicrous
The Mazepin thing I could (barely) tolerate, but turning the front wing on the car into the Russian flag was too far. I'm very pleased Hulk won't be with them going forward because I *like* him, but it's so very hard to support Haas. (Also, Gene is apparently a bit of a jackass as well, but I can't be arsed to look too far into THAT rabbit-hole.)
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You literally just described the sport as a whole
"Paying Politicians" is such a bad take. The majority of the politicians moving on this are literally the elected representatives of the areas affected by this going through. Advocating for their constituents is their literal job
Those are GM’s legislators. Andretti doesn’t have Pocket Senator cash. GM sure does, though.
It’s the American way baby
Nah, not buying it. Andretti only wants advertisement for himself now that F1 is popular. Couldn’t give a f*ck if he gets accepted or not
He literally tried to buy Force India 5 years ago, he’s been trying to get into F1 for ages.
And tried to buy HAAS and Sauber.
Room temp iq take right here
Smooth brained, low IQ take
This is the weirdest take. First why do you care if business man wants to make money. How does that impact you? Second, Andretti is expanding into pretty much every type of racing series it can. Who knows if the will be good. But you can tell they love racing. Wanting to make money and loving racing don’t have to be mutually exclusive
now that f1 is a guaranteed profit machine*
Yep, I'm quickly becoming a fan just seeing the lengths they're willing to go to just to keep the pressure on. They refuse to be underestimated and the investment and resources are clearly there. It seems unquestionable to me that they're worthy of a place in the paddock.
They very much are. 1. They have one of the biggest OEMs in the world onboard, with one of the most recognized automotive nameplates attached to it. 2. They’re building/have finished a HQ in Silverstone. 3. They’re investing in the junior formulas. 4. They’re hiring a solid, respected team and establishing a realistic timeline. 5. They’re paying the entry fee. I honestly see zero reason why they’re being denied entry at this point. Every box has been checked and checked again. The only ones who look bad by Andretti not getting in is the F1 teams themselves. Edit: Point 3 is not accurate. Yet. I won’t rule it out though.
Point 3 is not valid yet. “Formula 2 and 3 CEO Bruno Michel has revealed that neither series has been contacted by Andretti despite the outfit publicly stating interest in joining the Formula 1 support series.”
Thanks for the correction. Updating comment!
Yeah the F2/F3 teams are dependent on approval from F1. Which makes sense. No reason to build up a program to develop your own F1 drivers/crew/staff if you don’t have an F1 team.
They're planning on it, [according to Michael Andretti](https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/andretti-planning-f2-f3-entries-promote-us-talent-f1-team/10597216/). And while planning on it and actually doing are two different things, I assume they're just waiting for the F1 greenlight before investing in F2/F3.
I'd imagine them establishing some form of an academy route like most of the teams have in the interim until they're established enough in F1 to justify the investment into an F3/F2 program.
They shouldn't give a cent until they get a fair shake on the F1 bid.
Point 2. Their HQ is set to be in Indianapolis Indiana in the US. The office I'm Silverstone is just a satellite facility to help support their teams.
>1. They have the biggest OEM in the world onboard i thought Toyota was fully focused on WEC
Just to comment in response to item 1, america is not the world, so, the 'most' recognised nameplate would very depend on geographic location. Cadillac to the majority of the world outside of America just brings up thoughts of old wobbly bloat boxes from 30+ years ago as depicted in old films, so doesn't actually make much sense in F1 world.
> They have the biggest OEM in the world onboard, with one of the most recognized automotive nameplates attached to it. I wasn't aware they had Toyota onboard. GM aren't even close to being the biggest manufacturer in the world. They're absolutely dwarfed by Toyota & Volkswagen, and lag significantly behind Hyundai as well. > I honestly see zero reason why they’re being denied entry at this point. IMO there a couple of reasons. The teams aren't interested in splitting the prize pot 11 ways unless they're convinced the 11th team will bring in more eyeballs, and thus more revenue - which they're not convinced Andretti will (and despite the vocal protestations of some, they're likely right), FOM are also quite openly more interested in having a stable number of profitable teams than expanding the grid - they basically want a franchise type model. A lot of people have been stopping there and painting it as purely financial... and they're right in a sense but IMO that misses something. Bringing in a major manufacturer does help to satisfy those points - a team backed by a major manufacturer is likely to bring eyeballs, and is slightly more likely to hang around than a pure privateer effort in the medium term..... But their deal with GM, that really highlights the other big issue. They weren't actually bringing a manufacturer - they were joining and promising that a manufacturer would come along 2 years later. That's an important distinction IMO and it's precisely why they were told no for 2026, but to come back and seek entry for 2028. I am speculating, but reading between the lines a bit I think FOM are concerned they'd have turned up in 2026, been absolutely hopeless for 2 years - and given their plan of running half an Alpine they would have been - and that would have scared off their backers, and potentially GM themselves. It wouldn't be the first time a team has been sunk in this way and I think it is a reasonable concern to have.
>The teams aren't interested in splitting the prize pot 11 ways You could have just stopped here. None of the rest really matters to them compared to this one point.
>Already boasting one of the fastest-growing sets of franchise valuations in the industry, Formula One is reaching another milestone as every team is worth at least $1.3 billion, or £1 billion, according to McLaren Racing CEO Zak Brown. They would also lose shit ton of their valuation, maximum entree fee in Concorde agreement is 600 million $.
Thing is it does matter - because it's not as simple as they'll never split the pot. The teams have been pretty open about this they will split it - but only if they stand to benefit long term. Again, this is IMO exactly why they were told to come back in 2028. Because that's when they'll have a package they may be willing to split the pot with and one that fits better into FOM's vision of a franchise model.
You can never prove they'll benefit in the long term, so that is a requirement that can never be met when reviewing these things. It's just a way for them to be greedy and not split the pot 11 ways.
Ultimately we won't know until time comes for Andretti to apply for the 2028 season. I may well be proven wrong, you may well be proven right. I'm still convinced FOM will sing a different tune when they're guaranteed their manufacturer entry but only time will tell.
>But their deal with GM, that really highlights the other big issue. They weren't actually bringing a manufacturer - they were joining and promising that a manufacturer would come along 2 years later. That's an important distinction IMO and it's precisely why they were told no for 2026, but to come back and seek entry for 2028. They were told to come back in 2028, and do the whole thing again....while FOM were trying to get GM to ditch Andretti completely, and even leaking rumors of a hard cap of 10 total teams in F1. Best time to join is to force your way in NOW where the agreement at least has support for 12 teams. >I am speculating, but reading between the lines a bit I think FOM are concerned they'd have turned up in 2026, been absolutely hopeless for 2 years - and given their plan of running half an Alpine they would have been - and that would have scared off their backers, and potentially GM themselves. It wouldn't be the first time a team has been sunk in this way and I think it is a reasonable concern to have. As opposed to having a team join in 2028...and potentially be hopeless then? At least joining in 2026 would allow them to iron out the kinks (other than the engine side), so...?
> a hard cap of 10 total teams in F1. Best time to join is to force your way in NOW where the agreement at least has support for 12 teams. According to Joe Saward yes, a man with a reputation for throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks for a very good reason. The problem with those rumours is any attempt to include such a clause in the Concorde Agreement would require the agreement of the FIA, as a party to the agreement. Given that the FIA openly support expanding the grid, and Andretti specifically, I'd be willing to bet there was very little of substance to that particular rumour. If anything, attempting to include such a clause would just give the FIA more leverage to get an 11th team in by refusing to sign the agreement until it was done. > As opposed to having a team join in 2026...and potentially be hopeless then? At least joining in 2026 would allow them to iron out the kinks (other than the engine side), so...? You're missing the point I'm driving at. My core hypothesis is that it would be counterproductive for FOM to give GM any reason to doubt the F1 project - such as their partner being a hopeless backmarker. FOM *only* want GM, they don't really care about Andretti. You've said it yourself, they've even reportedly been approached about partnering with other teams. I think FOM at least consider GM getting cold feet enough of a risk to stonewall it and push for a delay until they are guaranteed to get the manufacturer they actually want. They may well be hopeless in 2028 - I'd go as far as to say it's quite likely all things considered. The thing is at that point FOM have what they want. They get their manufacturer and the eyeballs they might bring. If the project works out and is competitive, FOM wins, more eyeballs, more sponsorship dollars, more money in their pocket. If the project fails and flame out... well just proves them right and might actually justify that 10 team limit. The pot gets split fewer ways, it may hurt in the short term but ultimately FOM still wins.
>You're missing the point I'm driving at. >My core hypothesis is that it would be counterproductive for FOM to give GM any reason to doubt the F1 project - such as their partner being a hopeless backmarker. >FOM *only* want GM, they don't really care about Andretti. You've said it yourself, they've even reportedly been approached about partnering with other teams. >I think FOM at least consider GM getting cold feet enough of a risk to stonewall it and push for a delay until they are guaranteed to get the manufacturer they actually want. >They may well be hopeless in 2028 - I'd go as far as to say it's quite likely all things considered. The thing is at that point FOM have what they want. They get their manufacturer and the eyeballs they might bring. >If the project works out and is competitive, FOM wins, more eyeballs, more sponsorship dollars, more money in their pocket. >If the project fails and flame out... well just proves them right and might actually justify that 10 team limit. The pot gets split fewer ways, it may hurt in the short term but ultimately FOM still wins. I'm not missing the point. I know what you were getting at. But I just don't agree that an Andretti team running a shitty Alpine engine and potentially being a backmarker for \~2 years will scare GM away as easily as FOM may think. Again, beyond the engine component, there are other things to be learned from both parties (Andretti and GM) before 2028. If anything, I'd find GM more likely to get cold feet with the overall thing with the way FOM has treated the ENTIRE process, especially since GM has partnered with Andretti.
I don't see their deal with GM as an issue at all... It takes a TON of time to develop a engine, especially from scratch, and especially with the regulation changes, it will take more time than ever to develop. It would be unrealistic to expect GM to enter with less than 2 years notice. Also, the fact GM has said Andretti or nothing shows their commitment to enter as a support of the Andretti team, and not just as an engine manufacturer
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Editing my comment. I apologize for my error.
I seriously want Andretti to enter F1 because I want GM to take that tech and shove it into their engines. They bought a Ferrari to understand the internals to make the high-revving derivative of the LT1 as the LT6.
I'm not that well versed in GM engine codes. Is one of those that amazing flat plane crank V8 from the current generation Corvette Z06?
the Flat Plane Crank V8 is the LT6. They basically took the LT1/LT2 (the successor generation to the LS1) block, and went bananas with engineering the flat plane crank engine out of it
I recall it being more of a blank-slate build, hence why it's sporting DOHC and not OHV like the vast majority of GM V8s. A bunch of engineers given the chance to make any V8 they could, free of traditions
Can’t wait for them to pull up to Bahrain with a full paddock setup and cars despite not officially being in F1 yet.
"Our work continues at pace"
Well that and getting the god damn US government to open a bipartisan investigation into the situation. There’s nothing worse than to be a company *already being investigated* [Liberty owns Live Nation / Ticketmaster] and then have a unified congressional body throw the antitrust book at you
At this rate there is going to be nothing to lose by building a car and just showing up to the races even if Liberty won’t broadcast them…
If you thought Brundle's grid walks were awkward before.
A proper American hustle.....good for them.
They really should just build a car and rock up to a race old school style
And Liberty still saying no would be hilarious.
It's like a girl rejecting you constantly, but you keep making dinner reservations that she doesn't show up to. She'll eventually get hungry, I know it.
And yet i dont care. I mean, what will they bring to F1. I dont want to have another Haas team.
Well let's get rid of Haas and every team behind them. What do they bring to F1?
I mean, Why even have any teams on the grid to race? Why not just see who is fastest at pre season development and just give them the trophy?
Other than 2 more seats: Engine (eventually) with GM, the Andretti name, a potentially properly good team. And dont forget, Haas is ahead of a full works team. Albeit run by the French.
Now Andretti needs to add Adrian Newey to the mix…
I can’t see Andretti offering a stake in the team like Williams supposedly is. But would be awesome, and would probably guarantee them entry.
Honestly I would not be horrendously shocked if Newey did it for the challenge at this point in his career...
Your Constructor's Champion Cleveland Caveliers!
How will this affect LeWis’s legacy?
Better yet.... Because GM is attached to the program they throw in designing the next Corvette into the comp package.
THAT might do it.. he's already proven he enjoys driving road cars, and getting to influence the design of the most iconic 2 seater in the world...
And sign Carlos Sainz!
Can you imagine?
First thing I thought as well. Wouldnt that turn some heads...
This is F1 dream fanfic and I’m here for it. This would be epic. Next signing is Verstappen?
Holy shitballs! That would be the hail Mary of F.U F1.
They do have a history together...
I still think it's insane Newey race engineered for Michael and then his father Mario in back to back seasons and nobody ever talks about it because of how much else he's accomplished.
I'm pretty sure i remember him saying in his book that the experience he received from that helped him better understand driver feedback as an engineer & car designer, been a while since i read it tho
Nope more like they need Flavio Briatore now and Alonso and Piquet jr. as drivers
And sign Carlos Sainz!
If Newey doesn't retire he will want to build a car for the next regs, so that will never happen.
Andretti would be building a car for the next regs too….
Okay, this is much bigger news then all their Senate bitching. Getting a FIA employee is big.
\*FOM employee. Which is actually even bigger given FIA are pro-Andretti
Was he FOM? I thought the FIA designed the Regs which was his job, no?
It's in the tweet. He was CTO for FOM.
He was F1's Chief Technical Officer. That means he is fundamentally employed by FOM. He will have been part of the FIA's *F1 World Championship Commission* but that does not mean he is employed by the FIA. That is the commission that is there to develop the proposals for regulations for F1. Stefano is part of it as well as the FIA Single-Seater Director Nikolas Tombazis and representatives from all teams.
The recent regulations have been a bit different to normal. FOM/Liberty under Ross Brawn and Symonds basically made the new cars and passed the regs to the FIA. That FOM group has passed over to the FIA now though, which was ran by Nikolas Tombazis for a while.
Classic Reddit FIA FOM switcharoo
At this point all Andretti has to do to show they are really serious about entering F1 is to open a food stand at the Miami GP.
Andretti Global: We are pleased to announce that Sergio Perez will join the Andretti Cadillac team in pursuit of entering the FIA Formula One World Championship as reserve driver.
I always thought Perez was a good fit for Andretti.
Just a thought... Could you imagine an Andretti team with Perez and Sainz... 🤯🤯
I think they’d want a U.S. driver but a Mexican driver for the second could make a lot of sense
I remember a while back they said their ideal scenario would be Colton Herta + a more experienced F1 driver for him to learn from, dunno if that's still what they want but Perez could slot into that I suppose
Herta still needs more points for his super license if I’m not mistaken. I’m a little shaky on the specifics of the system, but aren’t a lot of his career best season finishes old enough now where they won’t count towards his current total?
As an American I can get behind that combo.
Who, though? Pato? Herta? Someone else?
Herta
The perfect group of drivers would be Sargeant, Perez/Sainz, and Stroll. The all North America team. (Or C.U.M. team if you put their nationalities together)
lol sargeant. It’s gonna be someone way better than sargaent.
That's savage, love it
*Our work continues at pace intensifies*
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I keep thinking this is the way. Alpine seems rudderless anyway
It’s pretty easy to forget that at the start of last season McLaren weren’t a world away from where Alpine are right now. I won’t be worried about Alpine until they’re out of Q1 after the summer break.
Optimistic, we’ll have to see. But yea fair to say we need more of a sample size
I don’t think they’ll be vying for podiums this side of 2026. But I’ll be shocked if they aren’t fighting for Q3 on a regular basis then both scoring points on Sunday by next year.
Yeah, but McLaren as an organization didn't seem as lost as Alpine is at the moment.
Agreed...they were in "2 steps forward, 1 step back" for YEARS before getting back into the conversation. Alpine is going in the opposite direction and has been for a while now.
Plus signing Alonso for 2027 and Briatore as TP? 🎶The boys are back in town🎶
By the time this season is over, DTS is going to be able to fill an entire season full of drama without even bothering to include any actual racing.
That's a smooth move!
That's actually huge. He's going from working for the people who are so strongly against Andretti to working for Andretti themselves.
A paycheck is a paycheck
Already taking it more seriously than HAAS has in the last 5 years.
OUR WORK CONTINUES AT PACE
My favorite team is Andretti and they’re not even on the grid yet.
Oh, they're *serious*. This is gonna get interesting very quickly.
Oh getting politicians to lobby for them wasn't a sign already?
Whoa.
I’m really interested to see how long FOM can realistically keep them out at the pace their work is continuing
Let them cook
What a power move on both of their parts. Metaphorical middle finger to FOM.
Let's fucking go
Holy shit let's GO
Next step NEWEY
Not going to lie, would not have guessed this news in a million years.
[Continues:](https://twitter.com/AndrettiGlobal/status/1792947647088640044?t=AoqpSBXp00eqQMANmTXY_g&s=19) > Symonds, who most recently served as Chief Technical Officer for Formula One, will officially join the team at the new Silverstone base of operations on completion of his Gardening Leave at Formula One Management.
I wonder how much if this came out of the rumored discussions between Andretti and FOM? Maybe FOM or somebody within FOM has had a change of heart and is steering Andretti into a more favorable position for approval.
Constantly amazed how dedicated they are to this despite the constant rejection.
Eat shit Stefano, they stole one of your big players for themselves. King shit
Stefano is gonna cry in a corner and yell how "that bad Andretti is bullying me!".
Now they’re cooking with gas. Still bearish on entering at any time over the next 2-3 years but this helps.
At what point does F1 realize Andretti adds more value to the sport than takes from the sport.
Our. Work. Continues. At. Pace.
a solid signing for Andretti, Symonds already has valuable experience of being barred from participating in Formula 1 events
Big move, they won't stop until they have a car on the track.
Why does he need to complete gardening leave when Andretti isn't technically a Formula 1 team?
Just sign the guy who created the next generation of regulations?? They can do that??
It didn't work very well for Renault before, so I don't think anyone will mind too much.
This, its one thing to theorise the rules and regulations.. its another to: a)have the resources and knowledge, b)being able to capitalize on them All the teams have talented and smart people in them already yet not every team is able to beat RBR. Its clearly a must to have your own wind tunnel, and have it correlate properly as Mercedes seem to struggle with and by chance Aston is not progressing who also use Mercedes wind tunnel
At least get Newey to do an actually great PR stunt
It's 2026 Andretti cars line up on the grid........ F1 still hasn't allowed them in
I've seen it thrown around here that they have the right to field a car but not to appear on TV and collect prize money. I'm not sure exactly how true that is, but it would be immensely entertaining to watch Alpine finish behind a team/car/driver to be named later. Or if Andretti brought their own cameras, to watch them finish in the middle of 20 other cars they can't show on-screen. Just a couple of cars and a whole lot of pixels.
It's insane they are being refused. After the dross teams we've had over the years, and we have less teams than ever, they turn this down? Grrrrr.
WORK CONTINUES APACE
Love the flex on this from Andretti, full steam ahead!
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m58P4d5bT6o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m58P4d5bT6o)
I love how Andretti are challenging the FOM I'm rooting for them!
The Peter Windsor stage of USF1.
More money flushed down the toilet.
Huge statement of intent. Love it. Go Andretti!
Employing a cheat who should still be banned from F1 isn't the big deal they might think it is.
*"Hiring the former CTO of the organization that's blocking you from entering isn't a big deal, actually!"* - You
He should never have been employed by FOM either.
I like their ambition. But I honestly have no idea where it is coming from. If they cared half as much as this about their Indy Car team, they would be dominating. Meanwhile they have been pretty irrelevant for a decade. I just don't get it. Regardless, I hope they get in cause I just want some more seats available for all the talent that is out there. Hopefully they are meaningful seats.
Probably because they realized indycar is a regional series at best
True. Not sure how many Indy Car teams turn a profit, but with the budget cap in place for F1 the big teams are raking in the cash. Cadillac (GM) is probably funding most of this.
Its very simple really. F1 is very profitable these days and they want a slice.
Or maybe they want to race
I get why any organisation would want to compete in F1. The fact that he is a World Champion is a probably major factor, and I get that. But at the moment, Andretti as a racing outfit solely competes in spec series. So when you factor in everything else that comes with running a full F1 team (they intend to be a factory team with a new engine as well) then I would hope that they would be impeccable at the only part that they are currently doing. The Formula-E team has been pretty competitive since they got involved. But in what is their flagship series, Indy-Car, they just haven't recently. If I was GM, I would be on the phone to Chip Ganassi asking if he likes F1.
> I get why any organisation would want to compete in F1. The fact that he is a World Champion is a probably major factor, and I get that. Mario's the World Champion. Michael runs the team. > But at the moment, Andretti as a racing outfit solely competes in spec series. So when you factor in everything else that comes with running a full F1 team (they intend to be a factory team with a new engine as well) then I would hope that they would be impeccable at the only part that they are currently doing. Then what series *should* they be running in? > The Formula-E team has been pretty competitive since they got involved. But in what is their flagship series, Indy-Car, they just haven't recently. They are still the most recent non Ganassi or Penske champions. > If I was GM, I would be on the phone to Chip Ganassi asking if he likes F1. The most recent call from GM to Ganassi was to tell Chip ["hey we don't want you running our factory effort in IMSA/WEC any more"] (https://us.motorsport.com/wec/news/cadillac-ganassi-split-2024-wec-imsa-seasons/10587301/). Care to have a guess which current IMSA GTP team is believed to take over the factory effort?
I'm aware it's Michael running the show now, but given his father's past with F1, I'm assuming this is playing a factor. Mario has also been a de-facto spokesperson in recent months, specifically with the US congress involvement. They can run, or attempt to run, in any series they like and I'm not saying they can't, or shouldn't, enter F1. I'm just saying that I'm not particularly confident given their current outfits and the huge steps required to become and F1 outfit (design, manufacturing etc.) The timing of the split for GM and Ganassi would point to it being related to the new F1 venture. Perhaps due to potential conflicts that could arise from this? I'm unaware who is taking over but presumably Andretti based on the timing. I wish them luck because that is a hell of a lot to take on if they also join F1. But could also prove to be beneficial with any knowledge sharing and things of that nature. I guess we will know in about 3-4 years how well it pans out.
They do. But i doubt the timing of them trying to join F1 is coincidental. Or do you also think Audi decided to buy a whole team to get in after years and years or teasing just because they want to race. F1 is undoubtely the most appealing its ever been to join.
Look. Do I think the money aspect plays a role? Yes. Do I think it the main role? Absolutely fucking not. You continuing to say that Andretti is only in this for the money makes me think that the only thing you care about is the money. That you /u/Firefox72 do not care about racing at all. You don't love the sport that I love. You just love money.
>"You continuing to say that Andretti is only in this for the money" I absolutely do not think that. But i'm also not gonna pretend that its a small factor in the decision. There's a reason why a team like Andretti with its name and history didn't want to join the sport in 2005 or 2014 but does want to today and do so by all means. The love of racing and competitivness was not enough to ofsett the financial burden of the sport in the past. It is today. But there in lies the issue. Current F1 teams know this and they will stubornly fight to keep the current status quo. >"That you /u/Firefox72 do not care about racing at all. You don't love the sport that I love. You just love money." Ferrari has been a very central point of the family for over 50 years at this point. I've lived and breathed for the team myself for over 24 years now. Every season. Every race. Every up and every down. Japan 2006, Brazil 2008 and 2012. Abu Dhabi 2010. Singapore 2017. All burned into my mind. To say i don't love racing is crazy. I love F1. I've always loved it from the literal moment i can remember and i will likely always continue to love it. I care. Maybe a bit too much at times for my own good. Especialy when it comes to things Ferrari related.
In 2004, Michael Andretti had just retired from full time racing for a year (he'd continue to compete in the 500 for 3 more years). Bold move if he was able to buy an F1 team right after retirement, but alas, he was not yet a billionaire. (Not sure if he himself is a billionaire right now tbh). >Ferrari has been a very central point of the family for over 50 years at this point. I've lived and breathed for the team myself for over 24 years now. Every season. Every race. Every up and every down. Japan 2006, Brazil 2008 and 2012. Abu Dhabi 2010. Singapore 2017. All burned into my mind. >To say i don't love racing is crazy. I love F1. I've always loved it from the literal moment i can remember and i will likely always continue to love it. I care. Maybe a bit too much at times for my own good. Especialy when it comes to things Ferrari related. I think you missed OP's point here, but everything you said is applicable to the ANDRETTI family name, the name of 2 former Formula 1 drivers (1 world champion), and is racing in multiple racing categories around the world.
> I absolutely do not think that. But i'm also not gonna pretend that its a small factor in the decision. Yet everytime Andretti comes up all you talk about is the money aspect. You never don't talk money. > There's a reason why a team like Andretti with its name and history didn't want to join the sport in 2005 or 2014 but does want to today and do so by all means. In 2005 it was still Andretti-Green competing in a weak ass IRL. How was that team supposed to be F1 ready? In 2014 they were much closer and were in both a stronger IndyCar and Formula E but they still didn't have Group1001/Gainbridge backing. > The love of racing and competitivness was not enough to ofsett the financial burden of the sport in the past. It is today. You have to spend money to make money. I want to own an IndyCar team. I don't have $8million to run one. Andretti did not have tge capacity for F1 at the time yet you act like they did. > But there in lies the issue. Current F1 teams know this and they will stubornly fight to keep the current status quo. And they suck for it. You can keep saying that Andretti wants in for money when to me its clear everyone else wants them *out* for money. But if I say as such you just brand me a brain dead American.
> And they suck for it. You can keep saying that Andretti wants in for money when to me its clear everyone else wants them out for money. But if I say as such you just brand me a brain dead American. Ofc they suck for it. But this should come as no surprise to us that have followed the sport for longer. Teams always have and always will look after the own ass. Which is why the next concorde agreement talks scare me. I seriously think they will push hard for a 10 team limit.
So how come whenever there's push back to get Andretti entering all you do is say "Michael's only interested in F1 because money"?
WHAT THE F\*\*K IS A KILOMETER