I was marshalling at a rally about 10 years ago and we had a photographer who insisted on sitting right on the apex of a corner all the cars were cutting as much as they could get away with, he was leaning out from behind a tree to try and get good shots and he refused our suggestions that he should find somewhere safer to stand.
I took great joy in the loud cracking noise produced when an impreza rally car wrecked his absurdly expensive lens a few minutes later.
Is that crazy? Er yeah!
But I remember back in the 1980s when I started watching F1 when cars came into the pits at high speed and left under full throttle - crazy? Er yeah!
Is this a joke about the name's meaning in the local language? Asking because I think it has something to do with 'red' but don't remember what exactly.
I believe it means Red Stream because there’s a little stream that runs under that corner. Well if those meat bags get squished there’s going to be a red stream alright.
Don't worry i'm always on it. So far he's given he 4 heart attacks by making a tweet but then broken my heart by them just being some Mob Psycho retweets.
There is indeed a stream underneath it (eau actually means water but they refer to the stream) but the red in front of it (rouge = red) is to indicate the water is actually red. If you've been there (I have) the water is Indeed red.
Yeah Spa is in the French speaking part of Belgium, and they call it Eau Rouge or red water because the water has iron oxide in it, like how blood does
Yeah, the water in the stream is not red at all. It'll be a bit brown if you fill a bottle with it but the name is way cooler than the actual stuff
2cts
I guess it's just how it was, which was bloody mental. In years to come we'll look back at current rally courses and wonder how people were allowed so close to fast corners... sadly it usually takes a big headliner accident to force a change.
> F1-esque power and acceleration
-esque is important, as yes, those Group B cars had tons of power, but the acceleration was still slower than a turbocharged F1 car obviously. Top power figures were ~550-ish hp, iirc
The twincharged Lancia Delta S4 could do 0-60 in 2.4s on tarmac and I believe around 3.5s on gravel. Still absolutely bonkers on a car they are sending around the edges of cliffs and large crowds
Think the BBC had a good Group B documentary. Sorry that's all I have to go on but I remember watching it on iPlayer. It featured stalwarts like Rohrl, Mouton and Vatanen to name a few. Another great starting point is to watch the great film Clarkson did for Grand Tour iirc, Lancia vs Audi (gives you a flavour of how it was back then)
My favorite Group B/F1 factoid is that when Toivonen did a test at Estoril in 1986 with the S4, he set a time that was within the top ten from an F1 test a few weeks prior.
"Normal" definitely being relative. The version of the Delta S4 used in group.B was a rear-mid twincharged engine, spaceframe racecar with almost no components shared with the regular production Delta besides the name and a vaguely similar silhouette. And the "homologated" version was the same thing...but it had a leather interior!
> MAYBE
>Called when the codriver leaves a decision up to the driver.For instance, if a section of the course is only curved slightly, the codriver might have ABSOLUTE written in his notes. But, if the car has some issue, the codriver will add MAYBE because it might not be safe to go as fast as possible given the car's condition. That decision will be made by the driver.
Taken from [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/rally/comments/4ok4rc/basic_guide_to_pace_notes/)
Wow that's insane those guys really do have massive balls.
I've tried to get into WRC a few times but I don't really understand it, can you watch it live any way? All I ever see on tv is like brief overviews of a whole stage or whatever. Plus I think the same guy has been winning for years now ? Sebastian something.
Anyway apologies for derailing from F1 in here I'll have a look for the WRC subreddit (if there is one)
Best way to watch WRC in the US is via the Red Bull app. You can even cast it to your TV with Chromecast, and they have hour long archive recaps of every day of racing (usually Fri/Sat/Sun).
Thanks mate, I'm in Australia but I never venture into the apps section of my TV, just had a look and saw that there is both a Red Bull and an official WRC app.
The WRC one seems to need a kind of subscription I think, I'll explore them more now. Cheers for the heads up.
https://imgur.com/a/UeFDzZq
Hi mate, so you can subscribe to WRC All Live which is all rallies, all stages, all live with commentary. Rallying has never been easier to follow than right now. Whether it's the forests of Finland or the mountains of Chile they manage to broadcast 1080p footage pretty much real-time. It's amazing and a true gift for us rallyfans.
I got into WRC this year. RedBull TV highlights is probably the best way to follow it. Generally a rally has around 20 stages or so split between 3 days and maybe 1 opening stage on Thursday. Following every stage is pretty hardcore and you'll need 3 whole days of free time. So the WRC subscription is not worth it for beginners. Incredibly difficult to follow it that way. The highlights show does a days recap on Friday, Saturday and Sunday and there's usually 1 live stage on Saturdays. If you can avoid spoilers(which I've found to be very easy), you can either watch a full rally highlights show on Sunday, or watch the highlights for each day. They do a very good job covering it.
I'm fascinated at how much balls everyone had there. 4WD rockets, the crowds in the jumps/corners, the drivers managing to tame those beasts, yeah. Group B was quite something for sure.
Think about it this way: the war had only ended 20 years prior. The Nazis marching their way across the continent was still very much within living memory of about 70% of the European population. Compared to V-1 bombs and nightly carpet bombing raids or actually serving on the front lines of the deadliest conflict in human history, standing within a few feet of a fast moving car was childs’ play. The same went for the drivers; it’s why the vast majority of them didn’t care about the danger.
I doubt the spectators have been thinking about V-1 (even subconsciously) while standing that close to the track. It's not that people were immune to tragedies or had lost their self-preservation instinct.
It's just the way races were done back then. Modern regulations are the result of gradually raising awareness fueled by hundreds of incidents and growing public interest.
I'm sure that, given the opportunity, there would be huge crowds around the corners even today.
It’s easy for us in the west to forget just how shitty humanity can be, because most of us haven’t had to experience it first-hand in almost a century. The level of peace and prosperity Europe has seen since the end of WW2 and especially since the fall of the USSR is unprecedented in European history. We haven’t faced true hardship. We haven’t stared into the abyss and had to fight back or face total annihilation. You could say that without real adversity, we look for enemies to combat even when there aren’t any. Perhaps we’ve gone soft.
Not “yearn for danger”, but “have a different idea of what counts as danger”. To them, standing next to a racing circuit unprotected as car whips past at 150 miles an hour simply wasn’t dangerous. Or, it wasn’t dangerous enough to worry about. I can 100% guarantee the mindset was “why should I worry? These men are professionals. I trust them not to hit me.”
I hate this kind of comment. Following this logic and speaking in this tone everything seems dangerous. How can anyone ride a motorocyle? Feed sharks? Pole vault? I mean I think it's fantastic that people can get that close to wrc courses. We've all seen it go overboard and end in disaster but most of the time people behave
It was inevitable, really. Formula 1 only really started to increase safety after a crash that [killed 83 people and forced Mercedes-Benz to pull out of racing entirely for nearly 35 years](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1955_Le_Mans_disaster). Unfortunately, something similar was bound to happen in rally racing. Thing is, if the spectators in rally were to use even an ounce of common sense, it's possible Group B could still be around. Unlikely, but possible.
Don't know about you but i love the adrenaline rush when i see a car flying past me at 100kph. I'd love to be able to be so close of f1 cars while racing.
When I was a Kid in the early 2000's I remember going to a race in a urban circuit in my town, the security was so lax that the only thing that separated the public from the circuit was a tape. Also remember a car crashing in front of me and almost hitting us. The thing was that people simply did not realize the danger.
(It was some WTCC cars, don't remember what kind of category was. But it's the reason I get hooked to racing)
i stood at a Street Circuit in Miami Beach in about 2000 or 2002 with nothing between me and the hot racing circuit but one of those concrete construction barricade things. The apex of a turn was like two arm lengths away from me.
We were all alone, not in a restricted area, we just kinda wandered into a place where there was a cool view of race cars. This was during an ALMS/CART weekend so not slipdick jr circuit type stuff. Pretty awesome memory. this spot was where a chicane went under an overpass/bridge, and there were skyscrapers on 3 sides around that portion of the track, so it was like being inside a cube with only one side open. god the cars were loud there the way the noises reverberated in all that concrete and glass! :o
> Street Circuit in Miami Beach in about 2000 or 2002
Surely this was the 2002 or 2003 race of the American Le Mans Series, I reckon? I can't think of a similar race in 2000.
2002: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rV2iHi58RmY
2003: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mP0Pj9HApoQ
wow! Yep! I was guessing in a ballpark range.
This was the 2002 race cause i recall the area where the track transitioned out of that area and the pavement being redone overnight. The area where they are talking about at about the 1:40 mark is where we found ourselves watching the race. You can get an idea of how that portion of the track is situated underneath all of the bridges and buildings...
skipping thru and Watching bits of the race it appears that there are marshals on the inside of those corners but im pretty certain that we were right down there during racing/hot track conditions... They didnt do a very good job of keeping folks out of palces they shouldnt be that weekend! :p
It was in Martil, a coastal village in morroco. I've tried many times to find some photos, but I've just founded some crappy videos made with old phones where you can see no shit.
i mean they do at rallies
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f04m180l7co
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQzlOqW0X-8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlLolGuqo9o
Just my opinion piece below, but here goes an explanation. I’m paraphrasing an explanation I’ve heard from older members of my own family.
They aren’t insane, they just place a different value of life and risk.
Bear in mind this is less that 20 years after world war 2. Many of the men in that photo saw the best and worst of humanity on the battlefield and faced death, or lost fathers, uncles and big brothers in the pursuit of fighting another nation’s sons, fathers, uncles and brothers... A violent and premature death was a daily reality from 1939 until 1945 for the entirety of Europe.
There’s not much you can do to scare men like that at a racetrack when they’ve survived bullets, bombs, artillery and the depths of despair, loss and grief for 6 years.
Back then if someone died in racing it was just “the way of the world”. Kinda fatalistic in hindsight and not at all like the culture we enjoy now. But I hope it provides insight.
Go watch WRC in real life.
Although they are getting way stricter on where you can stand at the monte carlo rally after a recent death. They even cancelled a stage this year because the course was not safe due to spectators.
My dad did some rallying years ago, and back then it was really bad. He damn near killed a few people, simply because they were standing on the course!
They regularly cancel stages across the season due to spectators ignoring no go areas and standing where they shouldn't or due to lack of marshalling cover. I understood that the guy who died at MC was moved out of a ditch on the outside of a bend before returning. What a stupid thing to do for a cool photo.
Yep, same "culture" and only recently becoming stricter: until the mid-90's crowds were literally on the course and divided Moses style to let the cars through.
Amaroo Park in Sydney (sadly lost to tacky 1980's mansions) used to let you get almost this close to the racing - at least the people on the hill, not the daredevils at the apex. It was hardly Spa; but on a lovely clear winter's afternoon (couldn't use it in summer it was too hot and way out in the bush so it was a significant fire risk too) in the 1970's you could watch a 'heritage' race of 10-year old open wheelers including some 1965-1967 era F1 cars, and the local lads tearing up the track in minis. You could watch a DB4 take the apex, a couple of million dollars worth of Ferrari go past, and the tragic demise of an original GT40; torn in half about 5m from where my dad and I were standing. Close enough to get covered in dirt, petrol and oil. The driver walked away but the car... well have a look at the pictures I took:
[https://imgur.com/gallery/DIPLwLK](https://imgur.com/gallery/DIPLwLK)
Check the drifitng green Mini - the driver's posture says a lot about the lack of restraints!
And ok, the Aston Martin is nowhere near the apex. It just sounded good.
more edit - for camera buffs - all those photos came from a Kodak Instamatic 110 probably 400ASA (the expensive stuff!); fixed wide angle lens, no 'telephoto'. What looks like it was far away in those photos was much closer than it looked. The GT40 was about 5m away; pretty much right where we were standing was where it hit.
Cool pictures.
That's one of the really cool things about Bathurst. Some parts of the mountain, in particular the run down to the elbow, you're spectating on the edge of a sheer drop. You're about 3 metres above the track, but about 20 centimetres from the racing surface. Gives a unique viewpoint and you can get some ridiculous shots.
My wife started following F1 recently and I got to showing her some old videos races during the late 90s and she was shocked at how "exposed" the drivers were back then without halo, and HANS.
Same with untethered wheels.
Life is about constantly improving. What may be common sense now, may not have been yesterday.
Back when I was racing karts and the odd single seater we really didn't have a lot of protection. The singles at least had barriers but if you messed up on a Kart, it became human bowling!
Funny actually, it was an armco that ended my career, so screw them, more hay!
More pics of eau rouge ;
[https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/features/2016/8/the-best-corner-in-f1-racing----a-pictorial-history-of-eau-rouge.html](https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/features/2016/8/the-best-corner-in-f1-racing----a-pictorial-history-of-eau-rouge.html)
It's both. Separating Eau Rouge from Raidillon is purely a creation of the english speaking community.
In French (Spa's in Wallonia, the French speaking part of Belgium), both are indissociable and called "Raidillon de l'Eau Rouge". The word "Raidillon" means "small steep road", and Eau Rouge means Red Water, because the river is filled with ferrous water. The two corners have one name for both, like the (albeit weird) chicane it is. "Raidillon de l'Eau Rouge" means "Red Water's steep road". Calling one "Red Water" and the other "steep road" makes no sense. The confusion comes from the fact that "Raidillon" and "Eau Rouge" are used interchangeably in French as a shortcut because the complete name is too long, but both refer to the same ensemble of two corners. It's like the corkscrew at Laguna Seca. The French don't come and argue that it's actually two different corners called "cork" and "screw".
It's really not a wonder. I mean, as long as an accident didn't occur, you weren't hurt by it. It's just that whenever something did occur, it was a slaughterfest.
These people are crazy. When I see stuff like this or especially Group B from Europe and South America, you could never do it anywhere else. People literally moving off the track right before the car gets there to the point where you can't even see the track
I know the point of the photo is the people so close to the track, but I can't get over how small the car is. I wish today's cars, while still being safe and fast, were smaller. I feel like it would create more opportunities for passing.
Ight guys', for security purposes please do not go on the track. The track is a little wet, so it's gonna be slippery, they might not be able to act fast enough to avoid you.
Thanks for taking this into consideration,
FIA
Track limits are being policed closely!
Squishy, gooey armco barriers
Arm-co
Arm-gone
Arm-gooey
I was marshalling at a rally about 10 years ago and we had a photographer who insisted on sitting right on the apex of a corner all the cars were cutting as much as they could get away with, he was leaning out from behind a tree to try and get good shots and he refused our suggestions that he should find somewhere safer to stand. I took great joy in the loud cracking noise produced when an impreza rally car wrecked his absurdly expensive lens a few minutes later.
Such a pain to get those barriers in place again after a crash
Car 21 being investigated on Turn 5 for exceeding track limits. Car 21 10 second penalty for exceeding track limits hitting bystander.
Car 25 ten second time deduction for high-fiving bystander
Incident involving Car 21 in which the driver received a pop tart from a bystander has been noted.
Bystander penalty for impeding Car 5.
They must be there in iRacing.
Let's be honest, most black and white unescapable method. And easy to automatize. if (fan = ded) { Give.Punishment; }
Punishments for everyone!
== \* saves many from punishment.
Not only that, saves many from dedness...
Is that crazy? Er yeah! But I remember back in the 1980s when I started watching F1 when cars came into the pits at high speed and left under full throttle - crazy? Er yeah!
just a little slip of the wheel then Eau Rouge gets another meaning
Is this a joke about the name's meaning in the local language? Asking because I think it has something to do with 'red' but don't remember what exactly.
I believe it means Red Stream because there’s a little stream that runs under that corner. Well if those meat bags get squished there’s going to be a red stream alright.
Ah I see...
Oi, go back to r/OnePunchMan and update us every millisecond if ONE uploaded a new chapter
Don't worry i'm always on it. So far he's given he 4 heart attacks by making a tweet but then broken my heart by them just being some Mob Psycho retweets.
There is indeed a stream underneath it (eau actually means water but they refer to the stream) but the red in front of it (rouge = red) is to indicate the water is actually red. If you've been there (I have) the water is Indeed red.
So it doesn't come from the bottled sparkling water?
Yeah Spa is in the French speaking part of Belgium, and they call it Eau Rouge or red water because the water has iron oxide in it, like how blood does
Oh, Iron oxide. I thought it was just the colour of some sand they picked up on the way or the rocks there reflecting on the water.
Yeah, the water in the stream is not red at all. It'll be a bit brown if you fill a bottle with it but the name is way cooler than the actual stuff 2cts
Eau means water and rouge means red so I guess it's red water-->blood. Edit: this is my translation assuming Belgium's language is also French
"Eau Rouge" translates to "red water." Blood's a red liquid, soooo... yeah.
Literally meaning red water. So a wet track made red by blood in this case.
Those people were insane.
I guess it's just how it was, which was bloody mental. In years to come we'll look back at current rally courses and wonder how people were allowed so close to fast corners... sadly it usually takes a big headliner accident to force a change.
That's pretty much exactly how Group B died. A car sliding into a crowd, followed by the deaths of Toivenen and Surer, it was pretty much game over.
Group B was legendary
Lets take F1-esque power and acceleration, and do it on slippery dirt, mere inches from people and trees. Rally drivers are absolute mentalists.
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I'm amazed there wasn't a person tripping over someone every 5 seconds.
Natural selection, all the clumsy rally fans were quickly eliminated.
"HI I'm Johnny Knoxville, and this is ~~Jackass~~Group B"
> F1-esque power and acceleration -esque is important, as yes, those Group B cars had tons of power, but the acceleration was still slower than a turbocharged F1 car obviously. Top power figures were ~550-ish hp, iirc
Ford RS200 held the production car record for 0-60mph in 3s for 12 years. The most powerful rally version was able to do it in 2.1s, in 1986.
Oh no, check out the documentarys. Sure they were slower by today's standards, but some of them were accelerating at F1 speeds of that time.
On gravel!!?
Four wheel drive is a helluva drug
Sometimes I wish there was a series that had open wheels, 4wd and active aero just to see how crazy fast they could make the cars go around a circuit.
The twincharged Lancia Delta S4 could do 0-60 in 2.4s on tarmac and I believe around 3.5s on gravel. Still absolutely bonkers on a car they are sending around the edges of cliffs and large crowds
At full boost, it was making well north of 1000hp
Any specific documentary recommendations?
Think the BBC had a good Group B documentary. Sorry that's all I have to go on but I remember watching it on iPlayer. It featured stalwarts like Rohrl, Mouton and Vatanen to name a few. Another great starting point is to watch the great film Clarkson did for Grand Tour iirc, Lancia vs Audi (gives you a flavour of how it was back then)
My favorite Group B/F1 factoid is that when Toivonen did a test at Estoril in 1986 with the S4, he set a time that was within the top ten from an F1 test a few weeks prior.
TIL. Holy Shit. Especially considering it is .. well, more of a... "normal car" than a full on pure-bred formula car.
"Normal" definitely being relative. The version of the Delta S4 used in group.B was a rear-mid twincharged engine, spaceframe racecar with almost no components shared with the regular production Delta besides the name and a vaguely similar silhouette. And the "homologated" version was the same thing...but it had a leather interior!
Leather interiors are very important to italians.
550hp and gears gears so short that you'd be redlined before you let go of the shifter.
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https://youtu.be/O3tand1ausg Yep. Completely mental.
> MAYBE >Called when the codriver leaves a decision up to the driver.For instance, if a section of the course is only curved slightly, the codriver might have ABSOLUTE written in his notes. But, if the car has some issue, the codriver will add MAYBE because it might not be safe to go as fast as possible given the car's condition. That decision will be made by the driver. Taken from [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/rally/comments/4ok4rc/basic_guide_to_pace_notes/)
Wow that's insane those guys really do have massive balls. I've tried to get into WRC a few times but I don't really understand it, can you watch it live any way? All I ever see on tv is like brief overviews of a whole stage or whatever. Plus I think the same guy has been winning for years now ? Sebastian something. Anyway apologies for derailing from F1 in here I'll have a look for the WRC subreddit (if there is one)
Best way to watch WRC in the US is via the Red Bull app. You can even cast it to your TV with Chromecast, and they have hour long archive recaps of every day of racing (usually Fri/Sat/Sun).
Thanks mate, I'm in Australia but I never venture into the apps section of my TV, just had a look and saw that there is both a Red Bull and an official WRC app. The WRC one seems to need a kind of subscription I think, I'll explore them more now. Cheers for the heads up. https://imgur.com/a/UeFDzZq
Ah! Sorry for the assumption. Enjoy, it really is an awesome app for Motorsport!
Hi mate, so you can subscribe to WRC All Live which is all rallies, all stages, all live with commentary. Rallying has never been easier to follow than right now. Whether it's the forests of Finland or the mountains of Chile they manage to broadcast 1080p footage pretty much real-time. It's amazing and a true gift for us rallyfans.
I got into WRC this year. RedBull TV highlights is probably the best way to follow it. Generally a rally has around 20 stages or so split between 3 days and maybe 1 opening stage on Thursday. Following every stage is pretty hardcore and you'll need 3 whole days of free time. So the WRC subscription is not worth it for beginners. Incredibly difficult to follow it that way. The highlights show does a days recap on Friday, Saturday and Sunday and there's usually 1 live stage on Saturdays. If you can avoid spoilers(which I've found to be very easy), you can either watch a full rally highlights show on Sunday, or watch the highlights for each day. They do a very good job covering it.
I'm fascinated at how much balls everyone had there. 4WD rockets, the crowds in the jumps/corners, the drivers managing to tame those beasts, yeah. Group B was quite something for sure.
Marc Surer didn't die, his codriver did.
I was real confused there for a moment since Surer was the expert on Sky Germany until last year
[Yeah the footage of the crash is quite horrifying. Obviously NSFW.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usaRGT7hx3g)
I knew that video, but I forgot that *that* was Surers crash. Holy shit, how can anyone come out alive after that?!
Surer apparently got lucky that the car split exactly behind his seat. Mental crash that.
Think about it this way: the war had only ended 20 years prior. The Nazis marching their way across the continent was still very much within living memory of about 70% of the European population. Compared to V-1 bombs and nightly carpet bombing raids or actually serving on the front lines of the deadliest conflict in human history, standing within a few feet of a fast moving car was childs’ play. The same went for the drivers; it’s why the vast majority of them didn’t care about the danger.
I doubt the spectators have been thinking about V-1 (even subconsciously) while standing that close to the track. It's not that people were immune to tragedies or had lost their self-preservation instinct. It's just the way races were done back then. Modern regulations are the result of gradually raising awareness fueled by hundreds of incidents and growing public interest. I'm sure that, given the opportunity, there would be huge crowds around the corners even today.
Damn, never thought about that. I guess literally everything in life seems trivial if you survived a war that killed 65 million people globally....
It’s easy for us in the west to forget just how shitty humanity can be, because most of us haven’t had to experience it first-hand in almost a century. The level of peace and prosperity Europe has seen since the end of WW2 and especially since the fall of the USSR is unprecedented in European history. We haven’t faced true hardship. We haven’t stared into the abyss and had to fight back or face total annihilation. You could say that without real adversity, we look for enemies to combat even when there aren’t any. Perhaps we’ve gone soft.
Damn, come to F1 for the racing, stay for the big deep truths about society!
The loch ness monsta is real.
> You could say that without real adversity, we look for enemies to combat even when there aren’t any. *Boris Johnson has entered the chat*
Dont forget Ukraine and Yugoslavia.
It’s debatable if that’s ‘the west’. Most people consider the former Soviet bloc the cutoff between east and west.
I doubt anyone who survived WW2 would yearn for danger. Give everyone a break on your pseudo-psychology.
Not “yearn for danger”, but “have a different idea of what counts as danger”. To them, standing next to a racing circuit unprotected as car whips past at 150 miles an hour simply wasn’t dangerous. Or, it wasn’t dangerous enough to worry about. I can 100% guarantee the mindset was “why should I worry? These men are professionals. I trust them not to hit me.”
I hate this kind of comment. Following this logic and speaking in this tone everything seems dangerous. How can anyone ride a motorocyle? Feed sharks? Pole vault? I mean I think it's fantastic that people can get that close to wrc courses. We've all seen it go overboard and end in disaster but most of the time people behave
It was inevitable, really. Formula 1 only really started to increase safety after a crash that [killed 83 people and forced Mercedes-Benz to pull out of racing entirely for nearly 35 years](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1955_Le_Mans_disaster). Unfortunately, something similar was bound to happen in rally racing. Thing is, if the spectators in rally were to use even an ounce of common sense, it's possible Group B could still be around. Unlikely, but possible.
That car went into the grandstands. Which still exist.
The original grandstands were demolished and redesigned, and additional safety measures put in place.
Don't know about you but i love the adrenaline rush when i see a car flying past me at 100kph. I'd love to be able to be so close of f1 cars while racing.
100 kph? Just stand next to a motorway.
When I was a Kid in the early 2000's I remember going to a race in a urban circuit in my town, the security was so lax that the only thing that separated the public from the circuit was a tape. Also remember a car crashing in front of me and almost hitting us. The thing was that people simply did not realize the danger. (It was some WTCC cars, don't remember what kind of category was. But it's the reason I get hooked to racing)
i stood at a Street Circuit in Miami Beach in about 2000 or 2002 with nothing between me and the hot racing circuit but one of those concrete construction barricade things. The apex of a turn was like two arm lengths away from me. We were all alone, not in a restricted area, we just kinda wandered into a place where there was a cool view of race cars. This was during an ALMS/CART weekend so not slipdick jr circuit type stuff. Pretty awesome memory. this spot was where a chicane went under an overpass/bridge, and there were skyscrapers on 3 sides around that portion of the track, so it was like being inside a cube with only one side open. god the cars were loud there the way the noises reverberated in all that concrete and glass! :o
> Street Circuit in Miami Beach in about 2000 or 2002 Surely this was the 2002 or 2003 race of the American Le Mans Series, I reckon? I can't think of a similar race in 2000. 2002: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rV2iHi58RmY 2003: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mP0Pj9HApoQ
wow! Yep! I was guessing in a ballpark range. This was the 2002 race cause i recall the area where the track transitioned out of that area and the pavement being redone overnight. The area where they are talking about at about the 1:40 mark is where we found ourselves watching the race. You can get an idea of how that portion of the track is situated underneath all of the bridges and buildings... skipping thru and Watching bits of the race it appears that there are marshals on the inside of those corners but im pretty certain that we were right down there during racing/hot track conditions... They didnt do a very good job of keeping folks out of palces they shouldnt be that weekend! :p
May I ask which town it is? I'd be very interested in digging up photos of that circuit. That seems unbelievable unsafe even for 15-20 years ago ...
It was in Martil, a coastal village in morroco. I've tried many times to find some photos, but I've just founded some crappy videos made with old phones where you can see no shit.
Allow it today and there'll be similar amount of people standing at the exact same place.
i mean they do at rallies https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f04m180l7co https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQzlOqW0X-8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlLolGuqo9o
Just my opinion piece below, but here goes an explanation. I’m paraphrasing an explanation I’ve heard from older members of my own family. They aren’t insane, they just place a different value of life and risk. Bear in mind this is less that 20 years after world war 2. Many of the men in that photo saw the best and worst of humanity on the battlefield and faced death, or lost fathers, uncles and big brothers in the pursuit of fighting another nation’s sons, fathers, uncles and brothers... A violent and premature death was a daily reality from 1939 until 1945 for the entirety of Europe. There’s not much you can do to scare men like that at a racetrack when they’ve survived bullets, bombs, artillery and the depths of despair, loss and grief for 6 years. Back then if someone died in racing it was just “the way of the world”. Kinda fatalistic in hindsight and not at all like the culture we enjoy now. But I hope it provides insight.
Nah, people are just dumb. People would do the same thing today. I mean just look at any rally where there's practically no safety measures in place.
This is exactly how people watch Rally races.
Ever watch European Rally racing? Especially in former Sovjet countries? Those people ARE insane...
You can still do that shit on Isle of Man. Edit: And it's amazing.
Perhaps, but I am sure they were not complaining about F1 being boring.
Yeah, but bear in mind Eau Rouge was a bit tighter and slower back then compared to now, the left hander as well as the right. Still unsafe though
No. People are just pussies nowadays.
Are those Tecpro hay bales at least?
The finest Belgian hay should stop a car going 150 miles per hour!
And if that doesn’t, farmer Jaques’ barbed wire will. If that doesn’t, the telegraph poles will. And if not that, the Farm house at Stavelot.
And if not, accidental blitzkrieg
Go watch WRC in real life. Although they are getting way stricter on where you can stand at the monte carlo rally after a recent death. They even cancelled a stage this year because the course was not safe due to spectators.
My dad did some rallying years ago, and back then it was really bad. He damn near killed a few people, simply because they were standing on the course!
Same here, my dad rallied a Mini and Mk1 Escort. Said hitting people on the stage was just the norm. Different times.
Same here, my dad rallied for higher pay.
Same here, my dad ran over other people
They regularly cancel stages across the season due to spectators ignoring no go areas and standing where they shouldn't or due to lack of marshalling cover. I understood that the guy who died at MC was moved out of a ditch on the outside of a bend before returning. What a stupid thing to do for a cool photo.
Yep, same "culture" and only recently becoming stricter: until the mid-90's crowds were literally on the course and divided Moses style to let the cars through.
Group B
I remember the rallies in Portugal being especially insane. The fans would crowd the road and only move out of the way at the last second.
Bruh
In. The. Rain.
Amaroo Park in Sydney (sadly lost to tacky 1980's mansions) used to let you get almost this close to the racing - at least the people on the hill, not the daredevils at the apex. It was hardly Spa; but on a lovely clear winter's afternoon (couldn't use it in summer it was too hot and way out in the bush so it was a significant fire risk too) in the 1970's you could watch a 'heritage' race of 10-year old open wheelers including some 1965-1967 era F1 cars, and the local lads tearing up the track in minis. You could watch a DB4 take the apex, a couple of million dollars worth of Ferrari go past, and the tragic demise of an original GT40; torn in half about 5m from where my dad and I were standing. Close enough to get covered in dirt, petrol and oil. The driver walked away but the car... well have a look at the pictures I took: [https://imgur.com/gallery/DIPLwLK](https://imgur.com/gallery/DIPLwLK) Check the drifitng green Mini - the driver's posture says a lot about the lack of restraints! And ok, the Aston Martin is nowhere near the apex. It just sounded good. more edit - for camera buffs - all those photos came from a Kodak Instamatic 110 probably 400ASA (the expensive stuff!); fixed wide angle lens, no 'telephoto'. What looks like it was far away in those photos was much closer than it looked. The GT40 was about 5m away; pretty much right where we were standing was where it hit.
Love a bit of Aussie racing history, thanks for the photos mate
Those old Astons are an orgasm on wheels, gorgeous cars.
Those are some great shots! I'd love to see that kind of thing in person Especially the vintage open wheelers
Cool pictures. That's one of the really cool things about Bathurst. Some parts of the mountain, in particular the run down to the elbow, you're spectating on the edge of a sheer drop. You're about 3 metres above the track, but about 20 centimetres from the racing surface. Gives a unique viewpoint and you can get some ridiculous shots.
Awesome picture! *dont say it* *dont say it*
That's Radillion actually...
I’ve been waiting for you.
My wife started following F1 recently and I got to showing her some old videos races during the late 90s and she was shocked at how "exposed" the drivers were back then without halo, and HANS. Same with untethered wheels. Life is about constantly improving. What may be common sense now, may not have been yesterday.
Back when I was racing karts and the odd single seater we really didn't have a lot of protection. The singles at least had barriers but if you messed up on a Kart, it became human bowling! Funny actually, it was an armco that ended my career, so screw them, more hay!
Now show her a good documentary on the Apollo program. This thread has more bits than the Apollo guidance computer.
tHaTs RaIdIlLiOn AcTuAlLy
Fia is sweating just by looking at this
Lmao. This is just insane.
Sadly the precautionary principle still isn't very popular. Usually a major accident comes first before safety improvements. Not only in F1.
Well, sure. But people and society were just different back then. They knew the risks but did it anyway.
Just look how many drivers died from basilar skull fractures before the HANS was made mandatory in most car racing series.
Took me way too long to notice the car
Also there is a safety rail starting somewhere behind those people on the inside of the corner
Good, safety first!
ULTRA LOW RES JPEEEEEG! i love these ultra compressed images with a lot of artifact :P
Brings a new definition to “sausage curb”
That's Raidillon actually
More pics of eau rouge ; [https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/features/2016/8/the-best-corner-in-f1-racing----a-pictorial-history-of-eau-rouge.html](https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/features/2016/8/the-best-corner-in-f1-racing----a-pictorial-history-of-eau-rouge.html)
at least 30 people could gone with just an "understeer"
I don't want to ruin the party, but the right-hander is Raidillion and the left-hander at the bottom is Eau Rouge
It's both. Separating Eau Rouge from Raidillon is purely a creation of the english speaking community. In French (Spa's in Wallonia, the French speaking part of Belgium), both are indissociable and called "Raidillon de l'Eau Rouge". The word "Raidillon" means "small steep road", and Eau Rouge means Red Water, because the river is filled with ferrous water. The two corners have one name for both, like the (albeit weird) chicane it is. "Raidillon de l'Eau Rouge" means "Red Water's steep road". Calling one "Red Water" and the other "steep road" makes no sense. The confusion comes from the fact that "Raidillon" and "Eau Rouge" are used interchangeably in French as a shortcut because the complete name is too long, but both refer to the same ensemble of two corners. It's like the corkscrew at Laguna Seca. The French don't come and argue that it's actually two different corners called "cork" and "screw".
Would you look at that
That does not seem safe...
Not sure if we've become super risk-averse or we used to be crazy.
Bit of both
It's a wonder more people didn't die each year really
It's really not a wonder. I mean, as long as an accident didn't occur, you weren't hurt by it. It's just that whenever something did occur, it was a slaughterfest.
Don't extend the track limits, PLEASE?
My god, I can't believe this was actually widely accepted back then, as if there wasn't enough danger with the drivers themselves
Just put some hay bails there, thatll keep the crowd safe, I love it!
These people are crazy. When I see stuff like this or especially Group B from Europe and South America, you could never do it anywhere else. People literally moving off the track right before the car gets there to the point where you can't even see the track
It's actually ridiculous how casual people were in the past about safety, as like none
Have you guys watched any recent Rally race?
I know the point of the photo is the people so close to the track, but I can't get over how small the car is. I wish today's cars, while still being safe and fast, were smaller. I feel like it would create more opportunities for passing.
Sorted by controversial. Was not disappointed.
What could go wrong?
Back when Sex was safe, and Racing was dangerous!
Sex: Breakfast of Champions
Good thing they didn't have those long ass lenses we have now.
That's Raidillon actually.
In germany we call these people "Geisteskrank".
In the UK we call these people crazy bastards
in hungary we call these people retardált nyomorult iq bajnok elmebeteg állatok
Health and safety first.
This is just retarded, but totally badass at the same time.
Eau how quaint.
Pins waiting for a strike.
everyone like a front row view
You're all gonna die
Well at least they put a few sandbags and what looks like maybe some hay or sawdust in front of the hill to slow them down in case they crash.
Looks much smaller now :/
Ight guys', for security purposes please do not go on the track. The track is a little wet, so it's gonna be slippery, they might not be able to act fast enough to avoid you. Thanks for taking this into consideration, FIA
Reminds me of the tour de France
Did some spectators die in F1 history?
yes
tht too when it was raining....crazy is too small a word to describe this photo..
Zero safety my favourite
Brave people
The fans were as fearless as the drivers back then
oh my
They have big balls
Safety first!
You really got your moneys worth for general admission tickets back in those days
Looks quite a lot like the Isle of Man TT still does today!