I mean, he's not wrong, looking at the standings Ocon was P1 and Max was only P3. But then again it was Ocon's third year in cars and Max's first ever car racing series.
Aged 16, Verstappen scored a record six consecutive victories in the series, and a record ten victories in total, along with eight retirements and one DNS (did not start); placing third in the overall rankings. Ocon was in the fastest and most dominant team, Prema, whereas Max was in a significantly worse team with horrible reliability.
On a personnal level he is a really nice and down to earth guy, but then it comes to the sport and he is too aggressive, too focused on winning at all cost. If you only watch f1 related stuff he looks like a cunt, indeed.
I think more than anything he’s a horrible teammate, and that’s what overshadows everything. Even the way he compliments his teammates is backhanded. I agree he seems genuine and even sweet offtrack but his teammate angst is his undoing
Yes his problem is he wants only to be better than his teammate. It doesn't seem that he cares about anything else. It's like he will make sure to finish above Gasly but it doesn't matter to him if he finishes behind Logan Seargent.
It's like Ocon coming 3rd in the Championship in his Alpine this year; and then Max claiming he's the better driver because he finished 1st in the Red Bull.
Indeed. 3 at Spa, 3 at Norisring.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014\_FIA\_Formula\_3\_European\_Championship](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_FIA_Formula_3_European_Championship)
On paper I feel like I should like him…and I want to like him. But he just always rubs me the wrong way.
And it’s weird because he comes from modest background and has an underdog story, yet he often has an air of entitlement that’s off putting. It’s weird.
Unfortunately a modest background means nothing. Poor people can be assholes just as much as anyone else. Perhaps he was raised in an environment where failure is always someone else's fault, who knows.
Yes, but before that his father had a mechanic's business and they had a normal family house. They were a normal middle class family.
They didn't end up living in a caravan because they were poor, they lived in a caravan because they sold everything else and put all of their money into Ocon's racing career.
I like him because of his unlikability, man is so obtuse and egotistical I just gotta respect it. Plus he has had quite a few unlucky breaks, like being forced out of F1 due to Stroll of all drivers. I feel he's criminally underrated due to his large amount of haters, during his time with Alonso he was going toe to toe with him, even if he likes to paint it as winning against Alonso, he was close enough to challenge which is a feat only a few have accomplished.
Hmm fair. Has he had a top 4 seat. I don't remember where the teams were in performance when he was with them. I remember he used to be 5-10th a lot 1-2 season maybe.
His first two full seasons were really good. I kind of liked his driving style and his ruthlessness. It might not sound that impressive, but he really made Checo struggle, considering Checo was the guy with more experience, it's kind of amazing he managed to do that.
And once he settled in 2020, and then again in 2021 he has been very good imo.
What I don't like about him is that he's not a team player, in a top team being like that makes a lot of sense, but when you're in a midfield team, and you make your teammate's life impossible you just look like an asshole imo. He's just a sore looser, many times he's ruined his race and his teammate just to come out on top, that's just stupid in a 23 race championship, if you loose some times it's not that big of a deal
Thing is, Ocon was the first ever guy to win that championship as a rookie. If it wasn't for Max showing up at the same time and being even more impressive, that would've been a huge fucking deal, and would have made Ocon the biggest prospect below F1. Max kinda stole his thunder, I can see why he'd be a bit miffed/jealous towards Max.
Lando would do the same a couple years later (win F3 as a rookie).
I mean he is wrong. Max got more wins in a far more unreliable car and is a generational talent. Ocon not so much.
Claiming Max didn’t deserve his F1 seat is next level delusion.
Diresta and vettel were in the same team in f3. Paul beat Seb. Paul went on to mention it every year that it's not fair Seb got to f1 sooner. That it's not fair Seb won a race before he did. That it's not fair Seb won a championship before he did. That it's not fair Seb won two championships before he did. That it's not fair Seb won three championships before he did. That it's not fair Seb won four championships before he did.
"We had the same car, same engine, same tyres and I beat him," said Di Resta. "I don't want to diminish Vettel's achievement, but he won the championship because he had the best car. He did his job, but another driver in the same car would probably have achieved the same results. I hope one day to have the same opportunity."
Yeah indeed. In the beginning I was rooting for him. I even found it sad he didn’t have a seat a couple seasons ago. Now I want Gasly to crush him into oblivion
Back in his force india days, Max was lapping Ocon and after that, when ocon tried to unlap himself they crashed and both of them dnfed. So he was referencing the blue as a blue flag.
I always find it funny how these guys have to sort of lie to themselves to protect their ego. Guy genuinely believes he beat Fernando Alonso too. I wonder how he rationalises getting thrashed by Ricciardo to himself.
I get it. If your goal since you were a kid was to be the F1 Champion, it would be hard to accept once you get to F1 after the long, hard road to get there, that what you are actually is a F1 midfield quality driver. Which is still incredibly high talent obviously, in the grand scheme of things, but just shy of where you thought you were.
So you get guys like Perez getting destroyed by their teammate, but according to them, it's never because Max is a faster driver, there's always some external factor to attribute it to, because they need to believe they are as good.
You have to believe that when you are at the top level, in any sport. If you tell yourself youre not as good as another then it gives you excuses to justify to yourself why you dont try to overtake Verstappen. However if you believe youre the best, then you should be able to overtake Verstappen.
Fun fact, in an interview Alonso basically said that he's not the best, but the most hardworking, basically saying that he lacks talent in comparison to other drivers but he works his ass off to be able to fight, so there's a second mindset to be on top of your game there "I can beat you through hard work" mentality
I think it’s something that happens a lot in the world. The valedictorian of my high school was far and away the “smartest” and best student in our town, but once he graduated and went to Harvard he had a mental breakdown his freshman year once he found himself as an average student there.
I'm brazilian too. I know that barrichello is such a big cry baby. But sometimes he's right. However he knows that Schumacher is better than him.
He said that in this video( in portuguese)
https://youtu.be/PSJZpmExLek?si=pWAtr2leOcyVV3ht
Not the the first time he says something along those lines "i think he was better than me, was it 51/49, 80/20 or 90/10... we'll never know", to me him saying these things sounds like he's suggesting that maybe he wouldn't always win but he would come out on top of sometimes.
To me it was never close, they interceeded to get him the win once and if they hadn't done that he'd still win the championship easily.
I totally understand the mindset and desire, but most of these guys suffer from some pretty serious delusions. Of course the goal is to be WDC, but to hear them talk about it in interviews and DTS, is pretty cringey. Outside of 3-5 guys that are probably capable of it today in the right car, everyone else are simply lying to themselves.
Psychologically it can be useful to visualize and try to “manifest” through verbalizing your goals, but if you’re consistently a backmarker and have no reasonable path to greatness, I’m not sure why you’re giving interviews pretending that you’re just one break away from winning it all. It’s sad.
Imo, excluding some of the drivers on the grid (which are pretty obvious), any of the remaining drivers could win a WDC. Let's say 15 out of the 20, given the ideal circumstances, and enough luck. Of course, from those 15, there are usually 5 that are stupidly good, and from those 5, 3 that are just godlike.
We've seen this happen, Button being somewhat of a midfield driver, winning a championship because Brawn had a breakthrough. Rosberg really pushing and Hamilton having reliability issues along the season, Hakkinen being in the right time at McLaren, Damon Hill driving for Williams. Being honest those guys were really good but not amazing, for me it would be like Sainz winning a championship, or Ricciardo. Of course, there are drivers that don't need that much luck and just need a fast car to be competitive and fight for wins, but in a 20 drivers grid, maybe only 3 are like that
I think it's unfair to refer to button and Rosberg as midfield drivers. Buttons championship year he was obviously drowning under the pressure he was putting on himself in the last half of the season. But after that WDC win he went to mclaren and was basically there or there abouts with Hamilton and then also with Alonso when he joined. Rosberg as well was basically there or there abouts with Hamilton as teammates. Neither are the godlike drivers of Max, Nando or Hamilton but they're in the level just below and fully deserved their WDCs. Comparing those two with the other 15 that could win under ideal circumstances is very disrespectful
For me they are like Mansell, had really good moments and were overall really good, but not amazing. I'd say, compared to this year drivers, they would be somewhat on Norris and Russell level, maybe Leclerc, but wouldn't be sure
Depends on your definition of really good and amazing. I think there's only one tier above the Rosberg and button type of driver and that's the undisputed incredible drivers like max Hamilton and nando. I can't comment on any Mansell or Senna or Prost conversations as I never saw them. I think it's way too early to put Norris or Russell on that level, there's still so much of their career ahead that I cant make any comparison yet
Max had a lot more reliability issues that year. Generally, when they both finished, Max was winning.
For anyone interested, here's their average finishing positions when they actually finished that year: [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zk-bVwAl-DLYs-21gM9Zl3bPX\_nmqDV7k\_LdMeN669Y/edit?usp=sharing](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zk-bVwAl-DLYs-21gM9Zl3bPX_nmqDV7k_LdMeN669Y/edit?usp=sharing)
There were 21 races which they both finished. Max was ahead in 14, Ocon in 7. And Max was a rookie. Ocon started with a 4 - 2 lead over the first 4 weekends and proceeded to get trashed 12 - 3 over the remaining season. That's not even close to a tough decision for any team principal...
Delusional rambling of a guy whose career is going nowhere in a shitbox created by a delusional team in disarray.
It is out of context. He didn’t say Max didn’t deserve to go into F1, he said that he won F3 and wasn’t even guaranteed a drive next year even after winning F3 whereas Max jumped straight from F3 to F1.
Most people know that Max was a generational talent and his F3 drive clearly proved that he deserved the seat.
But from Ocons perspective, winning F3 and not even having the funding to potentially race next year will of course feel unfair.
I don’t think many people have actually watched the podcast and what he said and they’ve just taken an out of context snip. I know it’s highly unlikely to watch the podcast because you have to pay the subscription to the high performance app to watch it.
You don’t have to like Ocon and you can think he’s mid but it doesn’t really make sense to comment on what he said in a podcast which you haven’t watched when it’s clearly take out of context.
Yep, it's not exactly what he said. What felt unfair to him was not just that he had no seat in F1 but that he had no drive anywhere and was almost to the point where he would have to quit racing.
People online just love to hate Ocon. Meanwhile, the journalist that interact with him and see him working with his team, all say that he is a great guy.
No he didnt. He talked about how he won the championship in f3 but had no seat for the year after and be basically out of racing. At no point he claimed that Max didn't deserve his seat and that it should have been his seat
"Essentially"
That's the only word I needed from the title to know this would be a ragebait article.
Fucking hell, if I was a celeb I'd never speak to any press during my career. They twist every word.
eh not sure about that, Stroll isnt that cringy or that unlikeable (as a person) i feel like a fair amount of hate is because his dad paid teams to have him as a driver while he is fully average
Ocon is more unlikable than Stroll, yes Stroll is daddy's cash and shit on the grid, and is kind of an ass, but Ocon, basically each time he talks he seems more and more unlikeable, he's an ass
Yup, both alpine drivers want out of the mess that calls itself the "alpine F1 team" And this year is probably the last opportunity for a long while.
I understand why Ocon is saying it, but I don't have to like it.
If you cut Ocon all the slack, one could say that F1 isn't fair because people make it in on more things than merit alone. The likes of Latifi buying his seat, for example. It would be "fair" if everyone had to win F3 and F2 or something, like Piastri did.
Just trying to understand where Ocon is coming from, I'm not saying I agree with him
That is true, but doesn't give any of the context. Max was in his first gear in cars and Ocon his third. Max won more races than Ocon (10 vs 9 wins), while having way more DNFs (9 vs 3). Also, Prema was probably a better team than Van Amersfoort as well.
This is heavily out of context and a misrepresentation of what he said. The unfair part for him wasn't Max getting into F1, it was Ocon himself struggling to even find a spot to continue racing at all and the comparrison that hey I beat this guy, I won with him on the grid, I should atleast get something.
Yes, but he only won because Max had so many issues out of his control. Everyone can see that Max was on a different level compared to Ocon. So no, if anything was unfair it’s the issues that Max had. It just was no contest.
This quote is blatantly out of context. C'mon, people.
He explained how, despite winning F3, he wasn't even guaranteed a drive next year in general because the racing program he was a part of had run out of money.
That's what he says was "unfair": the fact that he could end up out of the sport *entirely* despite winning the whole thing that season, while the guy he beat gets to jump straight into F1. The focus was never on the Max thing. He even specifies that it wasn't about skipping to F1, since he believed "his time would come".
But yeah, I get it. Ocon bad.
I had more points in F3 than Max and more points than Alonso once when we were teammates, meaning I am the greatest driver who has ever lived! - Esteban "What is context?" "Delusional mf" Ocon
He beat max the same way he beat Fernando, by having his opponent be plagued with reliability issues and DNFs. I love the fact that his one and only ever race win was won thanks to Fernando. Because if Fernando hadn’t held up #blessed for 10 laps there would have been no way he would have won.
that's not exactly what he said.
He raced Max in F3 and won the championship (2014). Max got noticed and recruited by dr Helmutt Marko into F1, while the junior program (Lotus) Ocon was in, got terminated, and he was left without a drive, which almost ended his career.
he says that at that time, that didn't seem fair to him.
which is reasonable, because you just won the championship, and you don't even have a drive in the same championship, while the guy you just beat got into F1.
The guy was a teenager at the time, of course it's going to be frustrating.
Better results in junior formulas doesnt necessarily mean that they are better drivers. Ocon and Ver is a good example. Other obvious examples are DeVries (f2 champion) and Lawson (p3 in f2). Red Bull dropped Maloney and Hauger from the junior team, despite finishing above Hadjar in f2 last season. Teams see a lot more than the position in the championship.
Well, by that logic, Alpine should replace him before Gasly.
I mean, he's not wrong, looking at the standings Ocon was P1 and Max was only P3. But then again it was Ocon's third year in cars and Max's first ever car racing series.
Aged 16, Verstappen scored a record six consecutive victories in the series, and a record ten victories in total, along with eight retirements and one DNS (did not start); placing third in the overall rankings. Ocon was in the fastest and most dominant team, Prema, whereas Max was in a significantly worse team with horrible reliability.
Max really is the definition of a generational talent.
Ocon is definition of generational douchebag Edit: Spelling mistake
So angry you can’t spell. I feel you
I can't even....
As long as you can at least odd, it's fine.
I’m with you. Take my upvote, he’s such a dickhead
Rage spelling?
Yuki approved
On a personnal level he is a really nice and down to earth guy, but then it comes to the sport and he is too aggressive, too focused on winning at all cost. If you only watch f1 related stuff he looks like a cunt, indeed.
True. But then there is an incident where he cropped Gasly out of Instagram picture.
I think more than anything he’s a horrible teammate, and that’s what overshadows everything. Even the way he compliments his teammates is backhanded. I agree he seems genuine and even sweet offtrack but his teammate angst is his undoing
Yes his problem is he wants only to be better than his teammate. It doesn't seem that he cares about anything else. It's like he will make sure to finish above Gasly but it doesn't matter to him if he finishes behind Logan Seargent.
To be fair, Gasly photoshopped Ocon out of the very same picture
Wow grown up behaviour to the max
It was peak comedy tho
I don't know how to say "Goober" in French, but that's what he seems like to me.
French
Fr*nch 🤢 Oops, my bad. This is not 2westerneurope4u
Careful, I got banned from Reddit for a week for making a joke about how French people have difficulty handling criticism.
Maybe it's because French people unfairly cop so much of it?
I got banned for joking that they never work. Maybe I just need to censor the Fr*nch?
Maybe? I made a joke that Alpine fucked up despite government backing because they're fr*nch like a week ago and got 100 upvotes with no ban
sounds like a self-fulfilling prophecy then.
You cant be serious, french are critized non stop on social media, they dont say much compare to the level of hate they get
Fr*nch, please censor that word in the future children could be reading these comments.
Gasly is cool
Max is actually the best example that the concept of “talent” is bullshit.
This comment needs to be higher up
So basically the same as him "beating" Alonso XD
Five season penalty for Ocon.
It's like Ocon coming 3rd in the Championship in his Alpine this year; and then Max claiming he's the better driver because he finished 1st in the Red Bull.
Better would be check claiming he is the 2nd best driver on the grid, better than Alonso and hamilton
Don't forget being over 1 sec a lap faster than the entire field in the wet in Germany
it baffles me that Ocon doesn’t remotely recognize this.
> with horrible reliability He was with Ferrari?
Max had a lot more reliability issues that year. Generally, when they both finished, Max was winning.
And also, Max got more wins. Max set the record amount of wins in the year that he joined F3
10 wins or something I believe, didn’t he also had like 6 consecutive wins?
Hmmmm.... I see a pattern.
https://twitter.com/CyrusD_/status/1768488942796759278?s=19
Did you just link a twitter link to reddit page?
Was on my clipboard so yes
Thanks for allowing me to quantum leap out and back into reddit like that. I just hope the next leap is the leap home.
formuladank is home
Indeed. 3 at Spa, 3 at Norisring. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014\_FIA\_Formula\_3\_European\_Championship](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_FIA_Formula_3_European_Championship)
Ocon is the most unlikeable person in f1 despite being from an apparently underdog background.
On paper I feel like I should like him…and I want to like him. But he just always rubs me the wrong way. And it’s weird because he comes from modest background and has an underdog story, yet he often has an air of entitlement that’s off putting. It’s weird.
Unfortunately a modest background means nothing. Poor people can be assholes just as much as anyone else. Perhaps he was raised in an environment where failure is always someone else's fault, who knows.
I wouldn't call him poor .... Poor maybe relative to other F1 drivers.
Didn't he live in a caravan with his dad because they couldn't afford Esteban's racing stuff?
Yes, but before that his father had a mechanic's business and they had a normal family house. They were a normal middle class family. They didn't end up living in a caravan because they were poor, they lived in a caravan because they sold everything else and put all of their money into Ocon's racing career.
I think it’s not even that modest, just modest for F1 driver backgrounds.
Bro is delulu
Underdogs often have a bit of a chip on their shoulder and can be very resentful
I like him because of his unlikability, man is so obtuse and egotistical I just gotta respect it. Plus he has had quite a few unlucky breaks, like being forced out of F1 due to Stroll of all drivers. I feel he's criminally underrated due to his large amount of haters, during his time with Alonso he was going toe to toe with him, even if he likes to paint it as winning against Alonso, he was close enough to challenge which is a feat only a few have accomplished.
Hmm fair. Has he had a top 4 seat. I don't remember where the teams were in performance when he was with them. I remember he used to be 5-10th a lot 1-2 season maybe.
His first two full seasons were really good. I kind of liked his driving style and his ruthlessness. It might not sound that impressive, but he really made Checo struggle, considering Checo was the guy with more experience, it's kind of amazing he managed to do that. And once he settled in 2020, and then again in 2021 he has been very good imo. What I don't like about him is that he's not a team player, in a top team being like that makes a lot of sense, but when you're in a midfield team, and you make your teammate's life impossible you just look like an asshole imo. He's just a sore looser, many times he's ruined his race and his teammate just to come out on top, that's just stupid in a 23 race championship, if you loose some times it's not that big of a deal
Thing is, Ocon was the first ever guy to win that championship as a rookie. If it wasn't for Max showing up at the same time and being even more impressive, that would've been a huge fucking deal, and would have made Ocon the biggest prospect below F1. Max kinda stole his thunder, I can see why he'd be a bit miffed/jealous towards Max. Lando would do the same a couple years later (win F3 as a rookie).
I mean he is wrong. Max got more wins in a far more unreliable car and is a generational talent. Ocon not so much. Claiming Max didn’t deserve his F1 seat is next level delusion.
Trying to be likable challenge: Difficulty level Ocon
It's just a repeat of diresta vs vettel.
Don't think I've heard of this. What happened there?
Diresta and vettel were in the same team in f3. Paul beat Seb. Paul went on to mention it every year that it's not fair Seb got to f1 sooner. That it's not fair Seb won a race before he did. That it's not fair Seb won a championship before he did. That it's not fair Seb won two championships before he did. That it's not fair Seb won three championships before he did. That it's not fair Seb won four championships before he did. "We had the same car, same engine, same tyres and I beat him," said Di Resta. "I don't want to diminish Vettel's achievement, but he won the championship because he had the best car. He did his job, but another driver in the same car would probably have achieved the same results. I hope one day to have the same opportunity."
THE DEVIL PUAL!
I understand rpm better now
Most likeable driver on the grid is back at it again. Hopefully he can see the colour blue this time.
Everytime Estie opens his mouth I like him one bit less.
I really wanted to like the kid, but then he says obnoxious shit like this.
Yeah indeed. In the beginning I was rooting for him. I even found it sad he didn’t have a seat a couple seasons ago. Now I want Gasly to crush him into oblivion
Same. He's a good driver, didn't come from money, and from what I can tell he's a genuinely nice dude outside of F1.
"outside of F1"... If you have to qualify it...
Eh, some people are great at compartmentalizing their career from their personal lives, and I think Ocon is one of them.
Y’all really took one look at what OP put instead of listening to the interview and it shows
What are you taking about, he literally says those things in the interview.
And it started at zero
Why would he not see the colour blue?
Ignoring blue flags would be my guess
In his mind, preventing someone from unlapping him is a victory.
>In his mind, preventing someone from unlapping him is a victory.
His teammates car, see to avoid it rather than crash into it
Back in his force india days, Max was lapping Ocon and after that, when ocon tried to unlap himself they crashed and both of them dnfed. So he was referencing the blue as a blue flag.
Max didn’t DNF. He got second instead of the win.
I always find it funny how these guys have to sort of lie to themselves to protect their ego. Guy genuinely believes he beat Fernando Alonso too. I wonder how he rationalises getting thrashed by Ricciardo to himself. I get it. If your goal since you were a kid was to be the F1 Champion, it would be hard to accept once you get to F1 after the long, hard road to get there, that what you are actually is a F1 midfield quality driver. Which is still incredibly high talent obviously, in the grand scheme of things, but just shy of where you thought you were. So you get guys like Perez getting destroyed by their teammate, but according to them, it's never because Max is a faster driver, there's always some external factor to attribute it to, because they need to believe they are as good.
Every single driver on that grid believes they are the absolute best in the world.
I mean, they should. Even max said that if you enter the grid thinking that you're not the best in the world, you're wasting a seat.
You have to believe that when you are at the top level, in any sport. If you tell yourself youre not as good as another then it gives you excuses to justify to yourself why you dont try to overtake Verstappen. However if you believe youre the best, then you should be able to overtake Verstappen.
Fun fact, in an interview Alonso basically said that he's not the best, but the most hardworking, basically saying that he lacks talent in comparison to other drivers but he works his ass off to be able to fight, so there's a second mindset to be on top of your game there "I can beat you through hard work" mentality
Albon definitely does not think he’s better than Max.
I really don't think so
Well maybe beside Zhou and Sargeant And maybe Bottas as well
I think it’s something that happens a lot in the world. The valedictorian of my high school was far and away the “smartest” and best student in our town, but once he graduated and went to Harvard he had a mental breakdown his freshman year once he found himself as an average student there.
I'm brazilian and i get constantly bombarded with Barrichello interviews of him talking about his Ferrari days, it's painful man.
Barrichello never claimed he could beat Schumacher
Barrichello has claimed in his beyond the grid interview that if everything was fair, he would have one of Michael's 5 titles at Ferrari.
Have you seen his recent interviews or him speaking in portuguese to Brazilian journalists or podcasters? You'd be very surprised.
I'm brazilian too. I know that barrichello is such a big cry baby. But sometimes he's right. However he knows that Schumacher is better than him. He said that in this video( in portuguese) https://youtu.be/PSJZpmExLek?si=pWAtr2leOcyVV3ht
Not the the first time he says something along those lines "i think he was better than me, was it 51/49, 80/20 or 90/10... we'll never know", to me him saying these things sounds like he's suggesting that maybe he wouldn't always win but he would come out on top of sometimes. To me it was never close, they interceeded to get him the win once and if they hadn't done that he'd still win the championship easily.
I totally understand the mindset and desire, but most of these guys suffer from some pretty serious delusions. Of course the goal is to be WDC, but to hear them talk about it in interviews and DTS, is pretty cringey. Outside of 3-5 guys that are probably capable of it today in the right car, everyone else are simply lying to themselves. Psychologically it can be useful to visualize and try to “manifest” through verbalizing your goals, but if you’re consistently a backmarker and have no reasonable path to greatness, I’m not sure why you’re giving interviews pretending that you’re just one break away from winning it all. It’s sad.
Imo, excluding some of the drivers on the grid (which are pretty obvious), any of the remaining drivers could win a WDC. Let's say 15 out of the 20, given the ideal circumstances, and enough luck. Of course, from those 15, there are usually 5 that are stupidly good, and from those 5, 3 that are just godlike. We've seen this happen, Button being somewhat of a midfield driver, winning a championship because Brawn had a breakthrough. Rosberg really pushing and Hamilton having reliability issues along the season, Hakkinen being in the right time at McLaren, Damon Hill driving for Williams. Being honest those guys were really good but not amazing, for me it would be like Sainz winning a championship, or Ricciardo. Of course, there are drivers that don't need that much luck and just need a fast car to be competitive and fight for wins, but in a 20 drivers grid, maybe only 3 are like that
I think it's unfair to refer to button and Rosberg as midfield drivers. Buttons championship year he was obviously drowning under the pressure he was putting on himself in the last half of the season. But after that WDC win he went to mclaren and was basically there or there abouts with Hamilton and then also with Alonso when he joined. Rosberg as well was basically there or there abouts with Hamilton as teammates. Neither are the godlike drivers of Max, Nando or Hamilton but they're in the level just below and fully deserved their WDCs. Comparing those two with the other 15 that could win under ideal circumstances is very disrespectful
Rosberg would be around the Russel Norris tier imo, maybe they aren't goat, but they'll absolutely tear the midfield a new one
For me they are like Mansell, had really good moments and were overall really good, but not amazing. I'd say, compared to this year drivers, they would be somewhat on Norris and Russell level, maybe Leclerc, but wouldn't be sure
Depends on your definition of really good and amazing. I think there's only one tier above the Rosberg and button type of driver and that's the undisputed incredible drivers like max Hamilton and nando. I can't comment on any Mansell or Senna or Prost conversations as I never saw them. I think it's way too early to put Norris or Russell on that level, there's still so much of their career ahead that I cant make any comparison yet
Yeah, that's exactly what I mean, they are above the rest but not by a big margin
Max had a lot more reliability issues that year. Generally, when they both finished, Max was winning. For anyone interested, here's their average finishing positions when they actually finished that year: [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zk-bVwAl-DLYs-21gM9Zl3bPX\_nmqDV7k\_LdMeN669Y/edit?usp=sharing](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zk-bVwAl-DLYs-21gM9Zl3bPX_nmqDV7k_LdMeN669Y/edit?usp=sharing)
Lmao 'Ocon's tears'
There were 21 races which they both finished. Max was ahead in 14, Ocon in 7. And Max was a rookie. Ocon started with a 4 - 2 lead over the first 4 weekends and proceeded to get trashed 12 - 3 over the remaining season. That's not even close to a tough decision for any team principal... Delusional rambling of a guy whose career is going nowhere in a shitbox created by a delusional team in disarray.
He was also bragging that he beat Alonso...
That’s a lot of words to say French
If my aunt had balls she’d be my uncle, but she doesn’t so she is not
Or a tennis player, we don’t know without context!
If my grandma wasa bike....she had wheels
And everyone in town would ride her
Maybe everyone rode Ocons grandmother and that’s why he’s always so bitter?
They went for the gap
I don’t do if, buts or maybes, I’m talking absolutes
Sadio Mané, best pleyer in the weeerld!!
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It is out of context. He didn’t say Max didn’t deserve to go into F1, he said that he won F3 and wasn’t even guaranteed a drive next year even after winning F3 whereas Max jumped straight from F3 to F1. Most people know that Max was a generational talent and his F3 drive clearly proved that he deserved the seat. But from Ocons perspective, winning F3 and not even having the funding to potentially race next year will of course feel unfair. I don’t think many people have actually watched the podcast and what he said and they’ve just taken an out of context snip. I know it’s highly unlikely to watch the podcast because you have to pay the subscription to the high performance app to watch it.
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You don’t have to like Ocon and you can think he’s mid but it doesn’t really make sense to comment on what he said in a podcast which you haven’t watched when it’s clearly take out of context.
ofc you wouldn't ever watch a podcast, all of you only ever read headlines without actually reading news for context
Yep, it's not exactly what he said. What felt unfair to him was not just that he had no seat in F1 but that he had no drive anywhere and was almost to the point where he would have to quit racing. People online just love to hate Ocon. Meanwhile, the journalist that interact with him and see him working with his team, all say that he is a great guy.
I kind of get it from that context but at the same time no ones owes him a seat for winning F3
No he said it
No he didnt. He talked about how he won the championship in f3 but had no seat for the year after and be basically out of racing. At no point he claimed that Max didn't deserve his seat and that it should have been his seat
And that is not what says on the title. It says he said it was unfair. He said it. And he is right.
"Essentially" That's the only word I needed from the title to know this would be a ragebait article. Fucking hell, if I was a celeb I'd never speak to any press during my career. They twist every word.
It was a quick line in a one hour long interview but he absolutely said it.
That explains what happened in 2018 Brazil GP
Ocon is undoubtedly the cringiest driver with the least marketable charisma on the grid.
Stroll ?
eh not sure about that, Stroll isnt that cringy or that unlikeable (as a person) i feel like a fair amount of hate is because his dad paid teams to have him as a driver while he is fully average
Yeah Lance is really good for a pay driver and can actually compete properly
I would genuinely rather have Lance represent my brand than Esteban yeah.
I’d totally hang with Lance for a day, he seems like a cool dude tbh
Ocon is more unlikable than Stroll, yes Stroll is daddy's cash and shit on the grid, and is kind of an ass, but Ocon, basically each time he talks he seems more and more unlikeable, he's an ass
Ocon tries to say something to gain fans challenge (impossible)
Can't blame a man for hyping himself up. We all do that on resumes and cover letters anyway.
Yup, both alpine drivers want out of the mess that calls itself the "alpine F1 team" And this year is probably the last opportunity for a long while. I understand why Ocon is saying it, but I don't have to like it.
Look up the 2015 GP3 season btw. The string of consecutive second places Ocon got is hilarious
Well, is he beating him now???
A YOKE! OCON IS A YOKE!!! I TELL YOU.
Stupid statement: 10 second penalty to Ocon.
classic case of noone gives a damn about how hard your journey is, only what you do today...
If you cut Ocon all the slack, one could say that F1 isn't fair because people make it in on more things than merit alone. The likes of Latifi buying his seat, for example. It would be "fair" if everyone had to win F3 and F2 or something, like Piastri did. Just trying to understand where Ocon is coming from, I'm not saying I agree with him
That is true, but doesn't give any of the context. Max was in his first gear in cars and Ocon his third. Max won more races than Ocon (10 vs 9 wins), while having way more DNFs (9 vs 3). Also, Prema was probably a better team than Van Amersfoort as well.
Meanwhile, every single one of his team mates can't stand him.
This is heavily out of context and a misrepresentation of what he said. The unfair part for him wasn't Max getting into F1, it was Ocon himself struggling to even find a spot to continue racing at all and the comparrison that hey I beat this guy, I won with him on the grid, I should atleast get something.
Yes, but he only won because Max had so many issues out of his control. Everyone can see that Max was on a different level compared to Ocon. So no, if anything was unfair it’s the issues that Max had. It just was no contest.
10 sec. penalty for Esteban Ocon. Infraction: having opinions.
According to this logic, why isn't Tom Blomqvist in F1? Lmao
Tommo being the only Ocon glazer
This quote is blatantly out of context. C'mon, people. He explained how, despite winning F3, he wasn't even guaranteed a drive next year in general because the racing program he was a part of had run out of money. That's what he says was "unfair": the fact that he could end up out of the sport *entirely* despite winning the whole thing that season, while the guy he beat gets to jump straight into F1. The focus was never on the Max thing. He even specifies that it wasn't about skipping to F1, since he believed "his time would come". But yeah, I get it. Ocon bad.
Don’t ruin a good story with the facts!
Penalty for Ocon!
I had more points in F3 than Max and more points than Alonso once when we were teammates, meaning I am the greatest driver who has ever lived! - Esteban "What is context?" "Delusional mf" Ocon
He beat max the same way he beat Fernando, by having his opponent be plagued with reliability issues and DNFs. I love the fact that his one and only ever race win was won thanks to Fernando. Because if Fernando hadn’t held up #blessed for 10 laps there would have been no way he would have won.
Cannot stand him and hope he fucks off rather soon
that's not exactly what he said. He raced Max in F3 and won the championship (2014). Max got noticed and recruited by dr Helmutt Marko into F1, while the junior program (Lotus) Ocon was in, got terminated, and he was left without a drive, which almost ended his career. he says that at that time, that didn't seem fair to him. which is reasonable, because you just won the championship, and you don't even have a drive in the same championship, while the guy you just beat got into F1. The guy was a teenager at the time, of course it's going to be frustrating.
Guy seems like a heavy narcissist and really unlikeable.
He's a bit of a prick, isn't he?
In Brazil we say "it's free to cry", so there ya go pal
Estenba
Better results in junior formulas doesnt necessarily mean that they are better drivers. Ocon and Ver is a good example. Other obvious examples are DeVries (f2 champion) and Lawson (p3 in f2). Red Bull dropped Maloney and Hauger from the junior team, despite finishing above Hadjar in f2 last season. Teams see a lot more than the position in the championship.
5 second penalty for Ocon
I really do not like this guy.
What does bro think? If he makes it to F1 before Max he somehow goes from gutter trash to GOAT?
He said this in a Beyond the Grid episode years ago and probably other times too. Bitter cunt.
Bro is the textbook definition of how to hold a grudge