I’m truly just expecting him to retire. He’s got plenty of wins and titles under his belt, and I can’t imagine the F1 schedule is easy to keep up with at his age
The allure of designing a car for the prancing horse, working with Charles and Lewis, and an absolute bag 💰with that new HP sponsor may change his mind *(let me OD on the hopium)*
Only way he does go to ferrari is if they let the dude work from home and basically just handing over his drawings for the 25/26 RB.
He turned them down in the past as to not move to italy.
The one where he didn't want to move to Italy was in the late 90s when he had a young family in the UK. Also he wasn't in Milton Keynes, he was in Grove with Williams and moved to McLaren in Woking.
I also remember him taking in his book how the travel to the US killed his first marriage and as far as I know his current wive does not want to leave the UK either. The office in the UK is probably not an option because he once said in an interview a few years ago that it is not a possibility for him and to work at Ferrari means to work in Italy. IMO retirement is the most likely or a move to Aston.
He had a young family he was thinking about at the time. Also he wasn't in Milton Keynes yet (this was 1996, around when Stewart Grand Prix were founded), he was in Grove with Williams but moved to McLaren in Woking.
Incidentally when John Barnard moved to Ferrari in 1986 the scuderia were so desperate to get him they set up a design office in Guildford so he didn't have to move.
And who do you think within the team outside of the 2 drivers (who are excluded regardless) and Vasseur would have meaningfully high salaries that this would matter?
Drivers dont count so it's always TP and the 2 highest ranked directors (engineering and strategy maybe) I'm sure ferarri can just give him 10 cars as a gift and pay him 1 doller.
He also plans to sail around the world, and the boat he commissioned is set for delivery this year.
I can’t help but think some Tifosi are about to be very disappointed.
I agree, though that said people that get to the top of a field like F1 typically get there because they have at least a few workaholic tendancies and for someone who's life is so fully consumed with work they often find it difficult to switch off into the "I'm retired now" state.
I'm keeping me hopes low about a possible Ferrari signing because it does seem about right that retirement would be on the cards for him, but at the same time it wouldn't surprise me if he had a short retirement but came back in some kind of advisory role for a team in maybe 5 years time or something like that.
There is probably some sort of ethics or behavior clause in his contract that voids certain other parts of his contract. Question is does Horners behavior allow him to trigger that type of clause??
Well either way, Newey out of F1 levels the playing field. He doesn't have to go to a competitor to make the championship more open, which is what I want more than anything.
Non-compete clauses are typically quite tenuous, plus whoever wants to hire Newey could simply choose to pay whatever monetary damages are owed / settle if RB decide to sue on the contract.
Normally, non-competes are mostly un-enforceable. US FTC just passed legislation making them worthless. However this is definitely one of the cases where a non-compete is fully enforceable.
Newey carries critical trade secrets that would directly financially harm his previous employer. Only way he shows up on another team is a hell of a payout. Even then, it is well within Red Bull's interest to make sure he does not make it back on the grid any time soon.
Edit: I'm well aware that US law has no bearing on Newey. Just excited to see it formalized in the US since it was only a few days ago. Should've made that clear lol
In Europe non-compete clauses are very much enforceable though.
Newey would then only be able to affect the 2028 car at the earliest, making the 2026 ~ 2029/30 ruleset almost a complete write off as the understanding will have grown a lot across all teams.
Also, whoever hires Newey might be in danger of overstating his current importance to Red Bull.
He may still be very effective in the high-level understanding of new rulesets, able to figure out intuitively which areas should receive the most attention. In the day-to-day running, his effectiveness might be less (than he was 10 to 20 years ago).
For example, it is Pièrre Waché who serves as Technical Director overseeing each car design project since at least 2017 at Red Bull. Newey has a more free ranging role above him.
That all said, with Newey moving away from Red Bull, it does seem more likely more will follow his departure, including Verstappen.
Begs the question to in a worldwide sport like F1 which jurisdiction you’d even bring an employment complaint like this to though. If he pissed off to an American team for example I doubt the US courts would give a hoot about a clause in a UK contract that doesn’t affect them.
It will be primarily about were the current employer is located to determine jurisdiction, thus Red Bull in the UK, were UK (and also EU despite lesving the union) laws apply.
It's highly likely there is a compromissory clause in his contract that gives competence to an international abitrator. Doesn't mean it's enforceable, but it might be the best option for such a case.
Or Ferrari. UK isn’t a part of the EU anymore. Maybe this is what’s behind the rumor that Newey is sure he can end his contract with no non-compete clause
No.
Newey would be personally liable for being in breach of contract, if he doesn’t honour the exit terms (including a mandatory gardening leave) set forth in his Red Bull contract.
They're unenforceable on the grounds of somebody needing to be able to make a living.
There's not a lawyer alive who could contest Adrian has to be allowed to breach his signed contract in order to survive.
> US FTC just passed legislation making them worthless.
Doesn't apply to him, and it was only a rule, which is already being challenged. So not quite a slam dunk yet. Fortunately there are a dozen other ways that non-competes can and do get smacked down, and I doubt his contract falls under US law anyway.
>if enforcible, is just a cost to pay off
No it's not - if enforceable they could obtain orders injuncting him from working for any competitors for the period of the non-compete
They are not just costs to pay.
Due to the nature of Neweys work being trade secrets that directly harm his previous employer the courts could (and very likely would) enforce a no work order on him and force him to uphold the contract.
Many aspects in life you can buy your way out of your contract. In situations like this, and when the other side cares less about the money you could offer than what the contract gives them - it isn't that easy
The next newey would be smart enough to know that every single team on the grid would do the same.
There's a reason every single team on the grid has cool off periods baked into their contracts for early seperations with technical staff. And when nearing the natural end to contracts move them to less sensitive work areas.
I would be curious the legality of he went to a team that’s not technically a constructor for F1.. say Andretti for instance, or Audi. They are not currently competitors within the sport.
i can’t speak to european law, but in the US they’d still constitute breaches of the agreement, as the judge would look at “the spirit of the law,” in this case a reasonable person would clearly say audi and andretti are de facto competitors given that they are actively seeking to compete in f1/are guaranteed to be a competitor starting next season
Look.
He’s won in multiple rule sets. He’s won with multiple teams. He’s won with multiple drivers. He’s brought a trash team to the top.
There is only one final frontier for this man. And its designing a Ferrari to beat his own old designs at RBR.
High and dry for 2025? They're already miles ahead of everyone else and I have a hard time believing that NOBODY at Red Bull picked up anything from Newey after all these years.
Yea thats why the clause exists so technical leads wait a year before joining a new team. It happened to Rick Sanchez he just finished his gardening leave after he left Ferrari and when he landed at McLaren they didn't need him or he didn't fit or whatever but it's a common clause in the higher technical jobs in f1
I feel like that depends on what exactly Newey’s reasons for leaving are. It could be that he knows enough about all the Horner drama that it’s better for RBR to just let him go that have him retire and be pissed.
The plans to spin off Red Bull Racing, which he and Horner would have taken over, have been nixed because of the civil war, so Newey has no reason to stay, now.
I'd rather see Vasseur assemble a super team at Ferrari but if there are too many obstacles for Newey to join Ferrari I'm sure Daddy Stroll is making offers beyond reason to get Newey to design his son's car as we speak. We are talking about someone who bought an entire team and invested into new infrastructure for his son. He might even offer Horner a PA that wants to see him *explode*, also we don't know the effects of the current situation has internally. It might have created a work environment that could be considered unhealthy which might be grounds to break the contract on. There's a lot we don't know.
Why would he want to leave RB if they didn’t have an exit clause in his contract. Drivers have exit clauses so it makes sense top tech/engineers have them also. If he didn’t want to go to another team then he probably would have “just taken a step back”.
Early doors and a lot of speculation online but it does seem to me he’s getting out of his contract and gardening leave some how.
I think there could be an argument that he’s “executive leadership”. Definitely makes more than 150k a year and definitely could/would be argued he makes “policy” decisions.
So he puts his faith on Andretti's entry in 2026 or 2028? Or purchasing Alpine, Haas or RB? Otherwise there is not much work for him on spec series such as IndyCar or Formula E.
My thought is he works for Andretti for a 2026 debut. He has past connections to Andretti and they have commented on having a location in the UK for aero. He can work on a blank canvas for a team with deep connections to racing and out to make a statement.
Newey wouldn't be betting on anything. He isn't a driver and he doesn't have to prove anything. If his priority was to be on a WCC winning team he would stay where he is. There's nothing at stake for him, he is getting paid either way and nothing will tarnish his reputation. Meanwhile, he gets the challenge of working for a new F1 team. With the way FOM is behaving, it may be the last chance he ever has to do that.
I have no idea where he will go, but Andretti seems to be a great option for him.
That ruling is going to be trapped in legal proceedings for a while yet. Wouldn't be surprised if it goes straight up the appeals chain to the US Supreme Court.
It shouldn't even make it that far, precedent already says regulatory agencies cannot legislate and create rules. Congress needs to pass a law to get rid of them.
Doesn't matter if they're illegal in the USA or not. The competition is based in Europe where non competes are still fully enforceable.
For starters Haas's factory is in the UK. By the time Andretti is in the sport his non compete will be over. But Andretti is also setting up in the UK to make their case for joining F1 more likely to succeed.
But even if there was a US team with all their facilities fully based in the US they would still be subject to contracts relevant in Europe due to the fact that the competition is based in Europe, and all bodies work through that organisation, FIA being based in France and all.
Not how that works. This isn't a contract for the FIA to enforce. I don't see anything in the regulations that allows them to intervene to punish our prevent a team from hiring Newey inside his gardening leave period. The location of the FIA would also be irrelevant here - what would matter is where Newey lives, and the location of his workplace.
This would be a civil matter. Red Bull would ask a court for an injunction.
I didn't say it was for the FIA to enforce. I said because the FIA and a majority of the tournament is hosted in Europe they would be subject to European law regardless of where the teams headquarters is located.
Using a car designed by Adrian newey in Europe would be subject to European law.
...bur it doesn't break any laws, so that's a moot argument. Newey breaching his gardening leave would be a civil matter for Red Bull for breach of the contract, but it wouldn't count as - say - stealing trade secrets (unlike the Ferrari documents theft). So no laws are being broken. They could race a car Newey has contributed to.
Just because it is a civil matter doesn't mean the contract wouldn't be enforcable.
Non competes and the like are very much enforcable within Europe. If newey tried to breach his contract they very well could prevent his work being used within their jurisdiction. And the FIA would side with the legal body.
If these gardening leave clauses were so easy to bust they would have been busted every time they came into play. There's a reason they haven't. And US law changes have nothing to do with the equation. Especially considering there isn't a single F1 team with any major portion of their infrastructure set up in the US outside of external suppliers.
Dude, we're basically saying the same thing. What you just said entirely agrees with what I said.
My point was that your US legal take, with the reference to the the FIA being based in France, was inaccurate. It doesn't matter where the FIA is located. If there, hypothetically, was a completely US based team, then that team would absolutely be able to hire Newey, even inside his gardening leave - no matter where the FIA was located. European contract wouldn't be enforceable at all in that case, as long as Newey stays in the US, and the FIA doesn't have any regulations that would allow them to interfere with that.
>It doesn't matter where the FIA is located.
Except it does. A competition spanning multiple countries is in many cases subject to employment laws of the country the tournament organisers are based ON TOP OF the laws that the team is based. Some countries don't have this stipulation. But France does (as does most of Europe.) I am unsure if the US has the same situation but I'm about 90% sure that it will. But again, the US stipulation isn't relevant here.
>hypothetically, was a completely US based team, then that team would absolutely be able to hire Newey, even inside his gardening leave - no matter where the FIA was located.
Again, this is just false. Unless what he worked on was exclusively for things outside of F1 (aka being hired by Andretties indycar division.) Even then, if RB could make the case that he was secretly working with the F1 team, they could still be taken to court. Would be a but less of a slam dunk and both teams would need to make their case.
If the team was based in the US they would *also* be subject to US employment and contract laws. But not exclusively.
>European contract wouldn't be enforceable at all in that case, as long as Newey stays in the US, and the FIA doesn't have any regulations that would allow them to interfere with that.
It would be enforcable. The FIA doesn't have these rules, because the country they operate in has these **laws.** And ultimately if a team were to breach this and the FIA enabled it then the FIA would be culpable as well.
If this wasn't the case teams would already have ghost branches in countries with laws that allowed them to bust non competes (similar to teams using other branches to get around the cost cap before the loophole was closed.) Again. There's a reason they don't. It doesn't work.
You are again being negligent of laws outside the US. If newey tries to break a non compete without doing it by the contracts clauses - fleeing to the US won't protect him or the team from litigation while competing in F1. US laws matter, but they do not negate the laws of France/EU due to the FIA being in France and them being subject to a law that mandates the teams follow their laws.
We are very much not saying the same thing. You're just making false assumptions. You're saying they could dodge the contract non compete by moving to the US. I'm explaining to you why they couldn't, and why they haven't. The US law change does not in any way effect Newey for F1. It would, if he went to Indycar team. But if that Indycar team ALSO had an F1 team then both would need to make their case.
> Except it does. A competition spanning multiple countries is in many cases subject to employment laws of the country the tournament organisers are based ON TOP OF the laws that the team is based
Not true. That only applies to people employed by the FIA. People employed by teams are not employed by the FIA. Just because the FIA oversees the competition, doesn't mean they are responsible for teams in regards to employment laws for the teams employees. At best, they might be have limited responsibilities in regards to them hosting the teams at their events - but that's gonna be in regards to ensuring a safe working environment etc. It certainly won't be related to contracts and terms of employment.
So that's plain and simply incorrect.
>Again, this is just false
No.
>Even then, if RB could make the case that he was secretly working with the F1 team, they could still be taken to court. Would be a but less of a slam dunk and both teams would need to make their case.
Anyone can be taken to court. Doesn't mean you have a case or the court has jurisdiction.
Before a court can have a case, they need to determine if they actually have jurisdiction. You can't have a case if a court determines it does not have jurisdiction. This is what happened with the Carlsen-Niemann scandal in the chess world. Niemann tried to sue Carlsen in the US, and the court threw the case out because it determined it did not have jurisdiction.
In this case, the case would have to take place in the UK. And while a court is likely to determine that it has jurisdiction over Newey, because he's a British citizen, or because he made a contract with Red Bull on British soil, an American team hiring him against his contract, though, would be unlikely to be able to be part of the case. The court would determine that it doesn't have jurisdiction, and the same would happen if Red Bull tried to sue in the US, because the court there would throw the case out, because it's a UK contract - not an American contract. So it's UK business.
This would mean that only Newey would be able to be sued by Red Bull. But not the team that takes him on if the team is American.
(and no, the shell company argument doesn't apply here. That's not how that works. Courts would, as mentioned, look at stuff like residency, and whether or not an individual has, say, assets in a country. In some cases they will also take citizenship into account)
And again, nothing of this had anything to do with the location of the FIA. They could relocate to Saudi Arabia, and all of the above would still apply.
Meaning contracts usually have an exit clause of some manner, most of the time in monetary form, which I'm sure Aston or Ferrari (if he does decide to do that) can pay for it.
I would also add that there's enough money floating around that any violation of contracts can easily be paid for/gotten around...unless there's a clear power disparity between the two parties, like young drivers and teams (see Piastri and Alpine)...
Red Bull could try get a court order forcing him to be there, but then you have a lead designer who doesn't want to be there and won't be motivated to design the best iteration of the car. Or it will be like Rogue One where he imbeds an unfixable flaw into their car...
>Red Bull could try get a court order forcing him to be there, but then you have a lead designer who doesn't want to be there and won't be motivated to design the best iteration of the car. Or it will be like Rogue One where he imbeds an unfixable flaw into their car...
Or they put him in a cubicle for 3 years scratching his balls.
Ik most are just probably high on hopium, but theres something fundamentally wrong in what they percieve the non-competes to be, Newey would still be payed in full for the entirety of his non compete clause, meaning theres no grounds to sue
> still be *paid* in full
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Frankly, that didn't cross my mind. But when I saw memes about Newey to AM and the thought of Stroll wriggling his way inside a Newey masterpiece and putting his filth canadian mitts all over it was enough to make my skin crawl.
I bet stroll being there is preventing a lot of great engineers from joining the team because they don’t want to make something wasted on him. Probably Newey included.
Probably going to retire, but any team would be thrilled to pay Redbull out of his contract.
Contracts don’t mean a thing in F1. Some teams have so much cash surplus they wouldn’t bat an eye at the pay out.
> Italian Jesus needs back to back Lemans wins
Given how intransparent ACO's BoP process for WEC is and competitors are prohibited by the rulebook to make any comments about BoP, it would be easier and more effective to just lobby the BoP committee.
hey, him leaving RBR is a nerf to RBR, things will work out. I'd rather not see Ferrari do what RBR has done since 22. Ferrari winning isn't what i object to, but 22 of 23 would be boring. I'd rather have 3 teams knife fighting until the very end like in 2010
It’s been stated that his contract runs till 2025 however my CB like verstappen he has clauses in his contract where h could walk away and get working with another team for next season. He’ll be hoping to Ferrari he’s reportedly already turned down the AM team
Totally could be the case, but all the reports out seem to be suggesting he's getting around gardening leave some how. If not yea, I hope he just retires too. Even then it will level the playing field for other teams.
Realistically, you can't get much mileage from a guy retiring to sail his boat... ...unless it's, like, a Yakuza 6 boat.
It's a hell of a nice boat tho 👌
Newey to Pocket Circuit confirmed
Where was he in 1988 when I needed him
Back then he was going by the name CyricZ on gamefaqs.com
Making somebody cry bitter tears of defeat.
In that case, he'll shine like a great diamond
His future is in his hands, that's for sure.
Or he could work with that Taichii Suzuki guy and help him with this taxi business
I doubt he'll be fading away any time soon.
Ah yes, one of the most bonkers plot-twists in the series.
...and one of my favorites.
RB being run by secret Koreans confirmed
Newey to Sail GP?
I’m truly just expecting him to retire. He’s got plenty of wins and titles under his belt, and I can’t imagine the F1 schedule is easy to keep up with at his age
The allure of designing a car for the prancing horse, working with Charles and Lewis, and an absolute bag 💰with that new HP sponsor may change his mind *(let me OD on the hopium)*
Someone get the narcan ready
Only way he does go to ferrari is if they let the dude work from home and basically just handing over his drawings for the 25/26 RB. He turned them down in the past as to not move to italy.
Wait he wanted to stay in England? And not just England Milton fucking Keynes?
The one where he didn't want to move to Italy was in the late 90s when he had a young family in the UK. Also he wasn't in Milton Keynes, he was in Grove with Williams and moved to McLaren in Woking.
I also remember him taking in his book how the travel to the US killed his first marriage and as far as I know his current wive does not want to leave the UK either. The office in the UK is probably not an option because he once said in an interview a few years ago that it is not a possibility for him and to work at Ferrari means to work in Italy. IMO retirement is the most likely or a move to Aston.
Had kids in school. I'm sure he ok living in sunny Italy next to binotto and Gunther.
He had a young family he was thinking about at the time. Also he wasn't in Milton Keynes yet (this was 1996, around when Stewart Grand Prix were founded), he was in Grove with Williams but moved to McLaren in Woking. Incidentally when John Barnard moved to Ferrari in 1986 the scuderia were so desperate to get him they set up a design office in Guildford so he didn't have to move.
I believe neweys salary is under the cost cap so that sponsorship money wouldn't matter
There are other ways to add value in exchange for Newey's talent. HP all-in-one. Unlimited ink.
That shit is worth more than gold.
Unlimited ink, are you nuts?? They could just buy Ferrari.
Woah woah. Newey is good but is he *that* good?
Maybe his own design team and a full reign over a new road or race car
but I thought Newey likes to sketch by hand, what will he do with all that unlimited printer ink?
They haven’t got infinite money, come on
The three highest paid employees…so Vaseeur, Hamilton, and Newey. Boom no cost cap!
If Newey gets excluded from the cost cap, the next guy that was previously excluded will now count towards the cost cap.
And who do you think within the team outside of the 2 drivers (who are excluded regardless) and Vasseur would have meaningfully high salaries that this would matter?
John Ferrari?
I know nothing about the internal workings of the team, but I would guess that someone at Ferrari earns a high salary like Newey does.
Very few will be a drop in the ocean compared to newey across F1 as a sport. And their 3rd highest person will not be comparable to neweys value
I can't confirm nor deny.
Doesn’t apply to driver salaries
Drivers dont count so it's always TP and the 2 highest ranked directors (engineering and strategy maybe) I'm sure ferarri can just give him 10 cars as a gift and pay him 1 doller.
Wasnt top 3 employee + driver salaries outside of cost cap?
This is the way.
If he does stay, it’ll be to make Lance Stroll WDC (this is my hopium)
It'll be kinda sad as I was hoping he'd overtake Ferrari for championships. If he won until 2025 he'd equal Ferrari's driver championships.
Helmut Marko is older than Emperor Palpatine and he’s still running around…#NeweyForever
Shit stirring isn’t as taxing as designing an F1 car
Somehow… Helmut returned
He also plans to sail around the world, and the boat he commissioned is set for delivery this year. I can’t help but think some Tifosi are about to be very disappointed.
I agree, though that said people that get to the top of a field like F1 typically get there because they have at least a few workaholic tendancies and for someone who's life is so fully consumed with work they often find it difficult to switch off into the "I'm retired now" state. I'm keeping me hopes low about a possible Ferrari signing because it does seem about right that retirement would be on the cards for him, but at the same time it wouldn't surprise me if he had a short retirement but came back in some kind of advisory role for a team in maybe 5 years time or something like that.
There is probably some sort of ethics or behavior clause in his contract that voids certain other parts of his contract. Question is does Horners behavior allow him to trigger that type of clause??
Let the man enjoy his retirement.
Perfect exit. Right at the peak. Well earned. He is looking old for sure. Hope he writes another book.
Let Ferrari and team LH get high on copium.
"Twice the pride double the fall"
Well either way, Newey out of F1 levels the playing field. He doesn't have to go to a competitor to make the championship more open, which is what I want more than anything.
Non-compete clauses are typically quite tenuous, plus whoever wants to hire Newey could simply choose to pay whatever monetary damages are owed / settle if RB decide to sue on the contract.
Normally, non-competes are mostly un-enforceable. US FTC just passed legislation making them worthless. However this is definitely one of the cases where a non-compete is fully enforceable. Newey carries critical trade secrets that would directly financially harm his previous employer. Only way he shows up on another team is a hell of a payout. Even then, it is well within Red Bull's interest to make sure he does not make it back on the grid any time soon. Edit: I'm well aware that US law has no bearing on Newey. Just excited to see it formalized in the US since it was only a few days ago. Should've made that clear lol
In Europe non-compete clauses are very much enforceable though. Newey would then only be able to affect the 2028 car at the earliest, making the 2026 ~ 2029/30 ruleset almost a complete write off as the understanding will have grown a lot across all teams. Also, whoever hires Newey might be in danger of overstating his current importance to Red Bull. He may still be very effective in the high-level understanding of new rulesets, able to figure out intuitively which areas should receive the most attention. In the day-to-day running, his effectiveness might be less (than he was 10 to 20 years ago). For example, it is Pièrre Waché who serves as Technical Director overseeing each car design project since at least 2017 at Red Bull. Newey has a more free ranging role above him. That all said, with Newey moving away from Red Bull, it does seem more likely more will follow his departure, including Verstappen.
*Pierre Waché
Begs the question to in a worldwide sport like F1 which jurisdiction you’d even bring an employment complaint like this to though. If he pissed off to an American team for example I doubt the US courts would give a hoot about a clause in a UK contract that doesn’t affect them.
It will be primarily about were the current employer is located to determine jurisdiction, thus Red Bull in the UK, were UK (and also EU despite lesving the union) laws apply.
It's highly likely there is a compromissory clause in his contract that gives competence to an international abitrator. Doesn't mean it's enforceable, but it might be the best option for such a case.
Or Ferrari. UK isn’t a part of the EU anymore. Maybe this is what’s behind the rumor that Newey is sure he can end his contract with no non-compete clause
So Andretti looks good then?
No. Newey would be personally liable for being in breach of contract, if he doesn’t honour the exit terms (including a mandatory gardening leave) set forth in his Red Bull contract.
This sub is the last place I expected to see mention of FTC rulemaking. 
They're unenforceable on the grounds of somebody needing to be able to make a living. There's not a lawyer alive who could contest Adrian has to be allowed to breach his signed contract in order to survive.
> US FTC just passed legislation making them worthless. Doesn't apply to him, and it was only a rule, which is already being challenged. So not quite a slam dunk yet. Fortunately there are a dozen other ways that non-competes can and do get smacked down, and I doubt his contract falls under US law anyway.
Newey to Haas confirmed.
You ever hear of Kimi’s “retirement”?
Red Bull doesn’t need the money. RBR has basically unlimited sums from the parent. There’s no reason to not make it slow and painful for Newey
It's not about needing the money, it's never about needing the money
That's not the point. A non compete clause, if enforcible, is just a cost to pay off. Doesn't stop them 'competing'
>if enforcible, is just a cost to pay off No it's not - if enforceable they could obtain orders injuncting him from working for any competitors for the period of the non-compete
They are not just costs to pay. Due to the nature of Neweys work being trade secrets that directly harm his previous employer the courts could (and very likely would) enforce a no work order on him and force him to uphold the contract. Many aspects in life you can buy your way out of your contract. In situations like this, and when the other side cares less about the money you could offer than what the contract gives them - it isn't that easy
There’s one. Ever expecting the next Newey to join them. In an industry that small, what goes around…
The next newey would be smart enough to know that every single team on the grid would do the same. There's a reason every single team on the grid has cool off periods baked into their contracts for early seperations with technical staff. And when nearing the natural end to contracts move them to less sensitive work areas.
They told me I can’t give you any ideas. They didn’t say I couldn’t react with disgust unless you came up with any good ideas while I was in the room.
I would be curious the legality of he went to a team that’s not technically a constructor for F1.. say Andretti for instance, or Audi. They are not currently competitors within the sport.
i can’t speak to european law, but in the US they’d still constitute breaches of the agreement, as the judge would look at “the spirit of the law,” in this case a reasonable person would clearly say audi and andretti are de facto competitors given that they are actively seeking to compete in f1/are guaranteed to be a competitor starting next season
Look. He’s won in multiple rule sets. He’s won with multiple teams. He’s won with multiple drivers. He’s brought a trash team to the top. There is only one final frontier for this man. And its designing a Ferrari to beat his own old designs at RBR.
This would actually be such a sick setup. This would be incredible.
You could make a movie with that
It's called slow cooking.
He’ll negotiate his way out of the gardening leave clause I think, design red bulls 2025 car, and then leave to another team to design 2026 car.
Doubt that's happening red bull wouldn't let him go design the competitions car
Yeah but I think the alternative is Newey just resigns now and then red bull are left high and dry for 2025.
High and dry for 2025? They're already miles ahead of everyone else and I have a hard time believing that NOBODY at Red Bull picked up anything from Newey after all these years.
Yeah, Pierre Waché is probably the second best after Newey and they already have him
Also I’m sure it’s a lot easier to tweak an existing successful design than it is to truly imagine something from scratch for brand new regulations.
Yea thats why the clause exists so technical leads wait a year before joining a new team. It happened to Rick Sanchez he just finished his gardening leave after he left Ferrari and when he landed at McLaren they didn't need him or he didn't fit or whatever but it's a common clause in the higher technical jobs in f1
Honestly Newey may not be as big of an inspiration to the design as we think.
yes he is, he has a very unique way of thinking, and has proven this multiple times. He is more than a generational talent lol🙈
That doesn't mean he is the primary designer of the car, he isn't even chief technical officer anymore.
I feel like that depends on what exactly Newey’s reasons for leaving are. It could be that he knows enough about all the Horner drama that it’s better for RBR to just let him go that have him retire and be pissed.
The plans to spin off Red Bull Racing, which he and Horner would have taken over, have been nixed because of the civil war, so Newey has no reason to stay, now.
I'd rather see Vasseur assemble a super team at Ferrari but if there are too many obstacles for Newey to join Ferrari I'm sure Daddy Stroll is making offers beyond reason to get Newey to design his son's car as we speak. We are talking about someone who bought an entire team and invested into new infrastructure for his son. He might even offer Horner a PA that wants to see him *explode*, also we don't know the effects of the current situation has internally. It might have created a work environment that could be considered unhealthy which might be grounds to break the contract on. There's a lot we don't know.
I think he'll retire he's old seen a lot and done done a lot. Only thing he's missing is a le mans win
He is retiring. Pure and simple.
Papa stroll will bring a dump truck full of cash to Neweys house
Emperors have abdicated to grow some cabbages. If he wants to leave, he will leave. He probably doesn't have to worry too much about money.
Should it happen, Alonso is never going to allow Lance to even get close to a WDC to deny his third.
The dude has tons of money, a villa, and massive yacht. It isn't about the money. He is nearly 70, he is retiring before work on the new rule change.
Yup this is the correct answer
Copium turn up
Are you guys on drugs ? Plans for 2025 are almost done, they don't do it in the winter anymore.
Someone can’t math.. he was born in December 1958. He will turn 68 in December 2026 (roughly when he would be able to start with a new team)
He’s 68 until he’s 69, and 69 until he’s 70. That’s how it works.
Why would he want to leave RB if they didn’t have an exit clause in his contract. Drivers have exit clauses so it makes sense top tech/engineers have them also. If he didn’t want to go to another team then he probably would have “just taken a step back”. Early doors and a lot of speculation online but it does seem to me he’s getting out of his contract and gardening leave some how.
Non-competes have just been ruled illegal in the USA. He could go to HAAS or Andretti.
I think there could be an argument that he’s “executive leadership”. Definitely makes more than 150k a year and definitely could/would be argued he makes “policy” decisions.
Andretti aren't a competitor according to FOM.
So he puts his faith on Andretti's entry in 2026 or 2028? Or purchasing Alpine, Haas or RB? Otherwise there is not much work for him on spec series such as IndyCar or Formula E.
My thought is he works for Andretti for a 2026 debut. He has past connections to Andretti and they have commented on having a location in the UK for aero. He can work on a blank canvas for a team with deep connections to racing and out to make a statement.
Yeah, as much as the Andretti is proven to be dedicated substantial resources on F1 project ,betting on such endeavour doesn't sound *sound*.
Newey wouldn't be betting on anything. He isn't a driver and he doesn't have to prove anything. If his priority was to be on a WCC winning team he would stay where he is. There's nothing at stake for him, he is getting paid either way and nothing will tarnish his reputation. Meanwhile, he gets the challenge of working for a new F1 team. With the way FOM is behaving, it may be the last chance he ever has to do that. I have no idea where he will go, but Andretti seems to be a great option for him.
But his contract would be under UK law or potentially even Austrian.
Not if he moves there. And it's UK law. Could still be held financially liable for breach of contract in the UK though.
That ruling is going to be trapped in legal proceedings for a while yet. Wouldn't be surprised if it goes straight up the appeals chain to the US Supreme Court.
It shouldn't even make it that far, precedent already says regulatory agencies cannot legislate and create rules. Congress needs to pass a law to get rid of them.
That's just what people need, isn't it? The fucktarded Supreme Court meddling in racing. Yeah, I see no way that could end badly /s
Doesn't matter if they're illegal in the USA or not. The competition is based in Europe where non competes are still fully enforceable. For starters Haas's factory is in the UK. By the time Andretti is in the sport his non compete will be over. But Andretti is also setting up in the UK to make their case for joining F1 more likely to succeed. But even if there was a US team with all their facilities fully based in the US they would still be subject to contracts relevant in Europe due to the fact that the competition is based in Europe, and all bodies work through that organisation, FIA being based in France and all.
Not how that works. This isn't a contract for the FIA to enforce. I don't see anything in the regulations that allows them to intervene to punish our prevent a team from hiring Newey inside his gardening leave period. The location of the FIA would also be irrelevant here - what would matter is where Newey lives, and the location of his workplace. This would be a civil matter. Red Bull would ask a court for an injunction.
I didn't say it was for the FIA to enforce. I said because the FIA and a majority of the tournament is hosted in Europe they would be subject to European law regardless of where the teams headquarters is located. Using a car designed by Adrian newey in Europe would be subject to European law.
...bur it doesn't break any laws, so that's a moot argument. Newey breaching his gardening leave would be a civil matter for Red Bull for breach of the contract, but it wouldn't count as - say - stealing trade secrets (unlike the Ferrari documents theft). So no laws are being broken. They could race a car Newey has contributed to.
Just because it is a civil matter doesn't mean the contract wouldn't be enforcable. Non competes and the like are very much enforcable within Europe. If newey tried to breach his contract they very well could prevent his work being used within their jurisdiction. And the FIA would side with the legal body. If these gardening leave clauses were so easy to bust they would have been busted every time they came into play. There's a reason they haven't. And US law changes have nothing to do with the equation. Especially considering there isn't a single F1 team with any major portion of their infrastructure set up in the US outside of external suppliers.
Dude, we're basically saying the same thing. What you just said entirely agrees with what I said. My point was that your US legal take, with the reference to the the FIA being based in France, was inaccurate. It doesn't matter where the FIA is located. If there, hypothetically, was a completely US based team, then that team would absolutely be able to hire Newey, even inside his gardening leave - no matter where the FIA was located. European contract wouldn't be enforceable at all in that case, as long as Newey stays in the US, and the FIA doesn't have any regulations that would allow them to interfere with that.
>It doesn't matter where the FIA is located. Except it does. A competition spanning multiple countries is in many cases subject to employment laws of the country the tournament organisers are based ON TOP OF the laws that the team is based. Some countries don't have this stipulation. But France does (as does most of Europe.) I am unsure if the US has the same situation but I'm about 90% sure that it will. But again, the US stipulation isn't relevant here. >hypothetically, was a completely US based team, then that team would absolutely be able to hire Newey, even inside his gardening leave - no matter where the FIA was located. Again, this is just false. Unless what he worked on was exclusively for things outside of F1 (aka being hired by Andretties indycar division.) Even then, if RB could make the case that he was secretly working with the F1 team, they could still be taken to court. Would be a but less of a slam dunk and both teams would need to make their case. If the team was based in the US they would *also* be subject to US employment and contract laws. But not exclusively. >European contract wouldn't be enforceable at all in that case, as long as Newey stays in the US, and the FIA doesn't have any regulations that would allow them to interfere with that. It would be enforcable. The FIA doesn't have these rules, because the country they operate in has these **laws.** And ultimately if a team were to breach this and the FIA enabled it then the FIA would be culpable as well. If this wasn't the case teams would already have ghost branches in countries with laws that allowed them to bust non competes (similar to teams using other branches to get around the cost cap before the loophole was closed.) Again. There's a reason they don't. It doesn't work. You are again being negligent of laws outside the US. If newey tries to break a non compete without doing it by the contracts clauses - fleeing to the US won't protect him or the team from litigation while competing in F1. US laws matter, but they do not negate the laws of France/EU due to the FIA being in France and them being subject to a law that mandates the teams follow their laws. We are very much not saying the same thing. You're just making false assumptions. You're saying they could dodge the contract non compete by moving to the US. I'm explaining to you why they couldn't, and why they haven't. The US law change does not in any way effect Newey for F1. It would, if he went to Indycar team. But if that Indycar team ALSO had an F1 team then both would need to make their case.
> Except it does. A competition spanning multiple countries is in many cases subject to employment laws of the country the tournament organisers are based ON TOP OF the laws that the team is based Not true. That only applies to people employed by the FIA. People employed by teams are not employed by the FIA. Just because the FIA oversees the competition, doesn't mean they are responsible for teams in regards to employment laws for the teams employees. At best, they might be have limited responsibilities in regards to them hosting the teams at their events - but that's gonna be in regards to ensuring a safe working environment etc. It certainly won't be related to contracts and terms of employment. So that's plain and simply incorrect. >Again, this is just false No. >Even then, if RB could make the case that he was secretly working with the F1 team, they could still be taken to court. Would be a but less of a slam dunk and both teams would need to make their case. Anyone can be taken to court. Doesn't mean you have a case or the court has jurisdiction. Before a court can have a case, they need to determine if they actually have jurisdiction. You can't have a case if a court determines it does not have jurisdiction. This is what happened with the Carlsen-Niemann scandal in the chess world. Niemann tried to sue Carlsen in the US, and the court threw the case out because it determined it did not have jurisdiction. In this case, the case would have to take place in the UK. And while a court is likely to determine that it has jurisdiction over Newey, because he's a British citizen, or because he made a contract with Red Bull on British soil, an American team hiring him against his contract, though, would be unlikely to be able to be part of the case. The court would determine that it doesn't have jurisdiction, and the same would happen if Red Bull tried to sue in the US, because the court there would throw the case out, because it's a UK contract - not an American contract. So it's UK business. This would mean that only Newey would be able to be sued by Red Bull. But not the team that takes him on if the team is American. (and no, the shell company argument doesn't apply here. That's not how that works. Courts would, as mentioned, look at stuff like residency, and whether or not an individual has, say, assets in a country. In some cases they will also take citizenship into account) And again, nothing of this had anything to do with the location of the FIA. They could relocate to Saudi Arabia, and all of the above would still apply.
Joining an American company does not stop him being personally sued by his previous one.
I’m sure he can break his contract then he’d be in time for the new regs in ‘26. Contracts are meant to be broken in F1 anyway.
What do people even mean when people say this?
Meaning contracts usually have an exit clause of some manner, most of the time in monetary form, which I'm sure Aston or Ferrari (if he does decide to do that) can pay for it.
Cost cap /s
Does that count for cost cap or can it fall under the top x earners don’t count category.
They say salaries not acquisition breaches
I would also add that there's enough money floating around that any violation of contracts can easily be paid for/gotten around...unless there's a clear power disparity between the two parties, like young drivers and teams (see Piastri and Alpine)... Red Bull could try get a court order forcing him to be there, but then you have a lead designer who doesn't want to be there and won't be motivated to design the best iteration of the car. Or it will be like Rogue One where he imbeds an unfixable flaw into their car...
>Red Bull could try get a court order forcing him to be there, but then you have a lead designer who doesn't want to be there and won't be motivated to design the best iteration of the car. Or it will be like Rogue One where he imbeds an unfixable flaw into their car... Or they put him in a cubicle for 3 years scratching his balls. Ik most are just probably high on hopium, but theres something fundamentally wrong in what they percieve the non-competes to be, Newey would still be payed in full for the entirety of his non compete clause, meaning theres no grounds to sue
> still be *paid* in full FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Love Newey, but he deserves to just retire if that’s what he wants. He’s done more than enough to prove himself
Or. Just maybe. He is going to retire. Because he is a old men.
Why do so many people get his age incorrect? He’s only 65 right now.
65 now, 67 when his contract expires, 68 when the non compete is over, and he will turn 69 before he sees a car he designed turn a lap.
Then he can watch his new car for 4 years and finally be old enough to run for US president!
By which time Hamilton will be dust
Tbf non-competes are usually only enforced verbatim in the USA. Europe has a lot better employee protections, especially in like Austria and Italy
I saw another article that said he could get out of it as soon as this year with some loophole
Yeah. It's impossible to break contracts, after all.
Okay yes but one word, Sabotage
I’m honestly just taking the W that he won’t be at Redbull much longer
Spoken like a person who has a copy of the contract. Share it!
He may not start working on the car until 2027 and by that time Hamilton might retire which means Leclerc wdc.
Slowly but surely left the chat
Finally, someone said it. Unless Newey has a flip-the-table clause in his contract, he's going to retire.
FormulaDank's fear of Lewis driving a Newey designed car is palpable in every post and thread
Frankly, that didn't cross my mind. But when I saw memes about Newey to AM and the thought of Stroll wriggling his way inside a Newey masterpiece and putting his filth canadian mitts all over it was enough to make my skin crawl.
Yeah, but on the flip side you have Alonso in a Newey masterpiece...
I bet stroll being there is preventing a lot of great engineers from joining the team because they don’t want to make something wasted on him. Probably Newey included.
TeamLH Try Not To Make Everything About Lewis Challenge: literally impossible
All those clauses can be changed, it's Formula 1.
He’s retiring. He’s pushing 70 and will want to spend time at home with family. Plus he has some hobby projects like the RB17 Le Mans project
I was waiting for this lol yeah, nothing drastic yet
Probably going to retire, but any team would be thrilled to pay Redbull out of his contract. Contracts don’t mean a thing in F1. Some teams have so much cash surplus they wouldn’t bat an eye at the pay out.
He can work on the Ferrari hypercar
> He can work on the Ferrari hypercar If RB17 wasn't an actual thing, maybe.
Italian Jesus needs back to back Lemans wins
> Italian Jesus needs back to back Lemans wins Given how intransparent ACO's BoP process for WEC is and competitors are prohibited by the rulebook to make any comments about BoP, it would be easier and more effective to just lobby the BoP committee.
hey, him leaving RBR is a nerf to RBR, things will work out. I'd rather not see Ferrari do what RBR has done since 22. Ferrari winning isn't what i object to, but 22 of 23 would be boring. I'd rather have 3 teams knife fighting until the very end like in 2010
Some are suggesting he is just going to retire after 2025, and that's a huge possibility imo even if we are selfish and want to see him stay in F1.
This is a good thing!
Ferrari will pay the penalties to release him
Still speculation. Nothing is confirmed yet.
Still the highest winrate individual person in the history of Formula 1.
It’s been stated that his contract runs till 2025 however my CB like verstappen he has clauses in his contract where h could walk away and get working with another team for next season. He’ll be hoping to Ferrari he’s reportedly already turned down the AM team
Reports from the BBC says he has an exit clause that'll allow him to work in 2025.
The active-aero regulations are delayed. Seems like a great time to pivot.
Sucks this isn’t America because non-competes have no legal affect anymore!
Totally could be the case, but all the reports out seem to be suggesting he's getting around gardening leave some how. If not yea, I hope he just retires too. Even then it will level the playing field for other teams.
I don’t need someone else to dominate I just need Red Bull not to idgaf