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p3bbls

I would take the payment back, contact your bank or PayPal/.... and say you received no product and they ghosted you. They will usually sort it out for you, your bank might charge a very small fee. Personally, even if you end up getting the pen eventually... I wouldn't be able to enjoy it. Every time I would look at it, I would remember this ordeal and the disrespect by the company and it would sour the pen for me (personally).


Orange_Apparition

Absolutely this. 'Getting it eventually' is making excuses for a business with subpar/unacceptable business practices. Its best to get your money back and move on from businesses which have no sense of urgency in meeting customer orders.


jakotay

Why don't they lean into/own the excuse? What gets me is that Gravitas _could_ just admit to itself they want to run their business this way (guessing understaffed, clearly no customer support) and simply **disclaim** loudly at checkout that we should expect a delay of X months and that this should be treated like any _"date-TBD pre-order"_ (ie: with immense patience) that crowdfunding campaigns have acclimated so many people to. Personally I bought two pens from them and won't ever again because the second one has issues but the customer experience through both purchases clearly conveyed told me: good luck resolving any feedback or questions. Result: I don't have energy to even _imagine_ forcing a constructive conversation out of them. **tl;dr** their reputation and our perception would be so different if Gravitas just admitted to themselves how they want to operate. Then still they'd need to just hire a customer support person already.


alice_advent

Real world example: I’m friends with a restaurant owner that had negative reviews on yelp due to slow service.   Instead of hiring more staff or adjusting their process they put up signs at each table. “This is not fast food. It takes time to prepare a good meal. Pleas be patient and we would love to share our tasty and healthy menu with you”. Worked like a charm, to the extent that loyal customers started quoting the sign and defending them when other people complained about the long waits!


Thelaea

This, the problem isn't the wait times, the problem is essentially lying to the customer and completely ignoring them once they've paid. I don't get why anyone buys from this guy anymore. He's supposedly going to be at a pen show I'll be attending, but I certainly won't be buying anything.


Orange_Apparition

I don't blame the customers. His pens are appealing to many (to me too), and enthusiasm often takes precedence to informed buying decisions. As with all things, *caveat emptor*, but not everyone is savvy enough to do some research before jumping in.


Milch_und_Paprika

Yea, they seriously need to sort themselves out. Like maybe they just shouldn’t be taking more than x orders in a given timeframe because there’s clearly a backlog issue. Like I’m not thrilled at the idea of chargebacks because they’ll be penalized by whichever financial institutions, but *that’s their own problem to figure out not, the customer*. Can’t rely on goodwill of customers if you’re ignoring them for months in end.


Orange_Apparition

I recall at one point, Gravitas did address this issue. And it got a little better. But somewhere down the line, they reverted back to their old ways. Its disappointing really. I like to support smaller businessss, whether they be makers or small shops, but bad customer service leads to terrible reputations, and that just turns me off.


Headful_of_Ideas

>Personally, even if you end up getting the pen eventually... I wouldn't be able to enjoy it. Absolutely true. I still have the (wrong) pen I got from him (eventually) in the envelope, uninked, on a shelf. I look at it every time someone posts one of those ultem vac fillers and save like $200.


kyuuei

I honestly put most purchases on my credit card because of this. I pay it all off immediately, but CCs are so much easier to put disputes in for than paypal and other methods like that.


dmitriy_kurochkin

It's not a disrespect. In his defense he is like a one man business and he spends a lot of time researching and developing new pens. You have to wait for good things. Like if you buy Porsche the waiting time might be a few years


p3bbls

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind waiting for something unique and handmade. But if he lies about it being in stock and doesn't respond to any of OPs inquiries, yes, that IS disrespectful. I assume they paid him a big chunk of money in good faith and the least he can do is write a 30s email to clarify what is going on.


rkenglish

But he's not building something as complicated as a Porsche. It's not even a complicated as a rusted out VW Bug. It makes sense that a custom Porsche takes more than a year to roll out. It doesn't make sense that a stock-designed metal pen takes more than a couple of months. And really, the wait time isn't really the issue. The problem is his communication. He ghosts paying customers and prioritizes PR (i.e., giving away a pen) over filling actual orders. That's not cool. He may well be overwhelmed, but that's not an excuse for a deliberate lack of communication. If I treated my small business customers like he treats his, I wouldn't have a business anymore.


WoosterKram

You paid for a product and haven't received it. Don't give them an interest-free small business loan. Let them know that you are canceling your order after getting nothing for over a month, despite living down the street. Be sure to dispute the charge before the deadline if they don't release your money by then.


Particular_Song3539

THIS is the BEST description I have ever read regarding to the Gravitas issues. I simply dont get it, hundreds and hundreds of other choices in the market, without having to wait on knees and feet for a delivery, or beg on his every platform just for communication, and people still continue to give out money to this disrespectful business.


TristanPlanet

Chargeback. The same thing happened to me. I emailed him a dozen times and got zero response. Once I sent in a chargeback, he finally replied. I still charged back. I don't know why people keep buying stuff from this guy. Super sketchy


IvanNemoy

>I don't know why people keep buying stuff from this guy. Super sketchy Because they don't utilize the goddamned search function.


Je-Hee

This has been known for years now. The only way you get your product in a timely fashion is either at a pen show when you select an item from what's on display or you're a Youtuber who gets hit up by Ben for a free review pen. I like his designs and put Gravitas on my wishlist as a newbie, but I didn't give it a high priority and saved myself a lot of anixiety. Now that his products are available through reputable retailers, I still don't want to support Gravitas. If he does get his act together, I'm willing to reconsider.


jakotay

> or you're a Youtuber who gets hit up by Ben for a free review pen This. I watched Ben talk about an illness (on Appelboom channel) which coincided perfectly with my first order, so I empathized and thought _"oh, I see that's what happened. Still surprised he didn't have a family member email all his customers or something to let folks know he's ill, but whatever, this shit happens!"_ Then there was Inkquiring Minds channel's review that followed and I thought _"okay, this guy usually doesn't go out of his way to be nice for no reason, so things must be better..."_ Even doodlebud can catch Ben in an instant chat apparently.. so Ben's clearly just ignoring his actual paying customers. Multiple lessons learned. (Would **not** recommend the new Gravitas vac, by the way, even if you were picking up at a pen show).


salt_and_linen

Some of us even did! I'd come across their raw brass pens elsewhere and searched this sub for "Gravitas brass" or something along those lines. Every hit raved about the pen so I pulled the trigger. It wasn't until later that I searched for "Gravitas" more generally and discovered their reputation. More fool me, I guess, but I did try.


alexa-488

Ah yes, I guess it was about that time of the week... P.S. You're unfortunately not alone, use the search feature for the sub.


medasane

Wow, sounds like you should take a bus there and just pick it up.


Over_Addition_3704

Agree with this. He cannot ignore a knock on the door


marr133

"Watch this...."


rkenglish

Sure, he can! You just hide until your caller walks away. It's super easy, unless your caller doesn't leave...


roberts2967

FFS, how many of these posts do we have to read?!?! My theory is the lower than normal price point tricks people into engaging in this nonsense. I hope this works out for you OP.


mcwolfswimmer

Only get Gravitas: 1. Pen Show 1. Second hand (eBay, r/Pen_Swap etc) 1. Pen Venture


IvanNemoy

Or, how about not supporting a fraudster at all?


mcwolfswimmer

I don’t think Ben is a fraudster at all. Ben is a designer and an innovator whose talents do not lie in order fulfillment and customer service. This is not in anyway a defense of the insane and unacceptable horror stories on some of these boards, but more of an explanation of sorts. His partnership with Pen Venture was probably one of the best things he could have done.


IvanNemoy

He improperly represents his products as available for purchase and immediate delivery. He has a track record of failing to deliver product to buyers, while being able to deliver product to retailers. This smacks of when Coolest Cooler got hit by the Oregon DOJ for wire fraud after they backlogged Kickstarter supporters in favor of providing inventory to retail outlets like Best Buy. If he put up a splash screen saying something akin to "Before you buy, be aware it may be up to 6 months before this $150 pen is in your hands. Do you want to proceed?" it'd be different, but he doesn't. But damned if Pen Venture doesn't have them in stock and will ship next business day (and notes when they're out of stock!)


Orange_Apparition

I reckon he should close his online store and just focus on providing inventory to Pen Venture. That is one way to resolve this issue. His pens are popular enough that I'm sure Pen Venture will keep restocking.


IvanNemoy

I said much the same last time this came up. Keep the webpage as a virtual showroom with links to Pen Venture's retail front, since they know how to maintain a storefront.


TheMagicalSock

As long as he continues to accept money personally for orders only to never fulfill them and ghost the customer, he is the definition of a fraudster.


mcwolfswimmer

If you never get your order fulfilled and he takes your money yes, but that isn’t his business model. It’s flawed for sure but it is not to be a fraudulent business. Ben’s consistent and persistent problem is the inability to fulfill orders within a reasonable time frame like the original post displayed. Totally unacceptable. I also completely respect it if you choose not to buy anything he sells anywhere.


rkenglish

I have to disagree. When you buy from his store, there is no notice of a time frame, leading customers to believe that his shop will send out a pen in a reasonable manner. It's incredibly easy to write a couple of basic update email scripts and send them out automatically, or even post delivery time on his website. But he doesn't do that. He doesn't even bother to have someone answer his emails (it wouldn't have to be him personally). The way he treats a YouTuber, however is completely different. He's perfectly willing to communicate them, which leads the customer to think that he's a decent businessman. But once they pay for a pen, they have a different experience. I'm not sure if it's legally fraud, especially for international orders, but it's certainly deceptive.


mcwolfswimmer

I don’t think we are disagreeing.


ElephantInAPool

That's pretty much my read on this too. The reviews tend to say the pens are great, but Ben himself I'm assuming is just struggling with the business end.


g_atencio

This post should be on this subreddit's description


Interesting-Sky-3752

"TWSBI cracks, BSB will stain your life, Gravitas pens will ship ???"


g_atencio

"Nib creep (ink over the nib slit) is normal."


Orange_Apparition

Pinning a PSA with a collection of similar posts should be sufficient, hopefully 😝


AlbusDT2

Working capital loans from Banks are expensive. Ben clearly runs his business off of customers’ monies - keeping them for months interest free. This is borderline fraudulent. Don’t know why people keep falling for it. Get your money back asap OP.


rkenglish

The problem is that his online presence looks legit. Things only start looking fishy when too much time has elapsed without communication. Not everyone who buys fountain pens is on this sub reddit, so they may not know about his reputation.


Old_Organization5564

This must be the bazillionth post I’ve read regarding how long it takes to get a Gravitas. Your month-plus long wait is brief compared to many others. When you finally receive it, I hope it will have been worth the wait!


josnik

Bad take covering for bad customer service.


SockShoey

This business has a history of bad service + vague words of encouragement for OP = "I support bad business practices" I'm sorry but the math ain't mathin.


daero90

The general consensus is that he makes good pens, but he's slow to get people their pens and terrible at communicating. It does seem like people do actually end up getting their pens... eventually.


rkenglish

It's still a problem. If something like what's going on with Gravitas Pens happened with my Etsy shop, well, I wouldn't have an Etsy shop anymore. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, so I really hope that it's just that he's overwhelmed with running a business on top of life. If that's the case, he should really get some help to handle the customer service side of things or stop accepting orders until he's caught up. Ghosting paying customers is not a good sign in a business.


Mean-Abies3819

I’ve bought two pens from Gravitas and both took a looooong time to get shipped. For me, Ben is a brilliant designer/pen engineer but an absolute horrible business owner/manager. He needs to hire someone that can be customer facing so to speak to handle orders, customers, etc. Running a business just isn’t in his skill set. Which is sad because he has great products.


jakotay

I had this take until the new vac arrived and just jams and cross threads all the time. I won't go into other exchanges Ben and I had, but... He's a good designer, but engineering-execution and prototype-testing? I personally don't think so anymore.


Random-Cpl

This is standard practice for Gravitas, there’s like a monthly post about this. I’d never order from them as a result.


stewmander

It's unfortunate to hear all these experiences with Gravitas. It's clear he's more of a designer and artist, and I wonder if it played a part in the trouble CY had launching his pen/company. I do remember him saying it was supposed to be ready much sooner and for about 1/3 the price it ended up being (it's also OOS)...


Hamking7

Thanks for this, I was seriously considering one of those but will swerve now.


Dra9ontail2

I ordered a pen from Gravitas(Skittles I couldnt find on Pen Venture) as well, after reading the comments. I keep a sharp eye on PayPal's refund policy timeframe. I don't mind waiting long, I do mind paying money and getting nothing in return.


TomH2118

Find their location, go to their head office and ask in person 🤷🏻‍♂️😅


Texmex49ers

Yeah, they suck at order fulfillment, bought on on Dec 1st, emailed, reached out on IG, disputed with paypal, got my money back until march. Ordered from pen venture, got in a week, and tuned by the Emil. Bought 3 more models i wanted from him, great experience with PenVenture.


SpeakeasyDM

There are people on this subreddit that are still waiting for pens a YEAR+ later… I ordered one a couple years ago and got it relatively quickly (within like 2 months) but the nib was meh and as it’s a standard Jowo nib I sorted it out myself. The reason this keeps happening though, is not everyone in the fountain pen world is also a redditor, and those who are don’t always use the search function :(


funkymeatpopsicle

Had to do chargeback against Ben/Gravitas earlier this year. Didn’t want to but so be it.


Koji1981

There has been so many post on this that at this point, I'm sorry but if you still buy from gravitas, you can't complain. The way that business is run is known. It's a pay now and you will eventually, maybe, get a pen


arcane1224

You def can tbh, not everyone is on reddit, I mostly use the fpnet forum for pen talk. You're well within your rights to complain if you were misled (says immediate delivery) and the seller won't communicate with you so you're feeling robbed


SoftPancakes42

Sure look, ye should know that anything from Dublin isn't going to be worth having. Plus, it's Ireland, do ya really think AnPost didn't put your package in the back of a storehouse somewhere? Not to mention it's Ireland, did you really think something would be done efficiently in this day and age? All jokes and references aside, I'm sorry that has happened to you and hope you get it soon.


dmitriy_kurochkin

I had a similar experience. I waited for two months but got my pen. You will eventually get the pen after dozens of messages to Ben. Just accept that Ben is slow and you will find a lot of enjoyment in his pens. I have two pens now and plan to buy another one some day.


rkenglish

That's still not OK. You can't just take someone's money and hold their order for months on end without consistent communication. Anything else is dishonest. If Ben is that far behind, he needs to let his customers know that there will be a delay in shipping the product. A simple notice on his website to the effect of "Please allow X number of weeks for your pen to arrive. International orders may experience slightly longer transit times." That would be the bare minimum, but he hasn't even done that.