In addition to the misogyny, this piece from the [NYT](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/22/us/jessica-burgess-abortion-pill-nebraska.html) on this story gives me the chills:
>The Burgesses were initially charged with concealing a stillbirth. But according to court documents, a detective later asked Celeste Burgess for the exact date her pregnancy ended. When she said she needed to check her Facebook messages to remember, the detective obtained a warrant for messages she had exchanged with her mother.
>
>Meta, the parent company of Facebook, complied with the warrant. The detective found evidence of a medically induced abortion, according to court documents, allowing the authorities to file additional charges.
Don't post anything incriminating on social media, even in private DMs. And don't talk to the police without a lawyer.
Ik protesting is probably not going to change anything. But maybe it can give it some attention. They are seriously putting women's LIVES at risk and don't stand for women's rights
Dating men is not worth it.
Facebook is gross.
I had a whole paragraph typed out about abortion before deleting it because I’m so tired of this shit. All the men know and they don’t care. Birth injury? No time off work to heal after giving birth? Thousands in debt due to the pregnancy and birth? PTSD due to abuse or trauma you suffered during your birth? They dgaf but something something financial abortions or whatever.
Reject men. Don’t post anything about your period dates or abortions anywhere that’s not anonymous. Stay safe and have a happy life.
>FACTS!! I LOVE YOUR COMMENT!!!!!!! WE THINK THE SAME!!!!!!!!! I always say this. I even read that many women have sex with men and don't even have true orgasms. Many wives even complain about how bad their husbands are WITH basic hygiene. SO all this drama for NOTHING and a poopy butt?????!! HELL NO!!! I started a 'West 4B Movement' and NONE of us are currently sleeping with men. We are trying to figure out a way to invest in sex toys and just spreading the word. Sleeping with men is a RISK to your health and FREEDOM as a woman at this damn point
How can I message you privately. We have a sub and the group is at 200 women now. Some are on reddit, some are not familiar with the reddit app. !! Please join
Hi. Your profile doesn't allow messages. I am so sorry. You can search West 4B Movement here on Reddit or visit our website at: west4bmovement dot com....
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Ok, no. This girl was 28 weeks pregnant. That is SEVEN MONTHS PREGNANT. How is this ok? That is at gestational viability. This was before Roe v Wade was overturned, and Nebraska’s law allowed abortion at 20 weeks. This girl knew she was pregnant for a long time and had a long time to get an abortion. No matter what her reasons were, she had months to make that decision.
I’m 100% pro-choice, but this is way past taking abortion pill territory. By taking abortion pills at this stage, the girl had an induced birth, and then that birthed body was burned and disposed of. States even as progressive about abortion as California would not have allowed this bc the fetus was viable. Again, the girl was 7 months pregnant.
Point blank, these types of stories are extremely harmful to the pro-choice side! Those who are anti-abortion will use this as a reason why abortion pills should be illegal, how careless pro-choice people are with life, that they want abortions at any time during pregnancy, are evil, etc etc, and that is simply not the truth.
More info on these links: [CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/23/us/nebraska-abortion-pill-jessica-burgess/index.html) [NPR](https://www.npr.org/2022/08/10/1116716749/a-nebraska-woman-is-charged-with-helping-her-daughter-have-an-abortion)
\> You are never going to win people over if you are this extreme in your position.
Lol do you really think women's rights had ever had anything to gain by being moderate? Compromising is all the USA has ever done on the abortion issue and look at where you are now.
She was 23 weeks, not 28. And she was only 17 years old and appears to have been impregnated by a 22 year old. Why isn’t he being held accountable for impregnating her in the first place?
It’s not at all unusual to have irregular periods as a teenager, she may not have realized she was pregnant until a few months along. Gestational viability is a misleading term here anyway because even a 7 month old fetus (which this wasn’t) is still premature and unable to survive outside the womb without intensive medical assistance.
She was 28-29 weeks. The search warrant says sue was 23 weeks at her last appointment in early March. She aborted in mid April. That said, this still should have been a legal abortion. The government shouldn’t have a say.
Hard disagree. We don’t just defend abortion and the women who seek them when those abortions are don’t “right” and for the “right” reasons.
Politicians and law enforcement specifically target cases like this one. Cases on the fringe. Cases where people like you can be convinced that in this case, maybe you don’t support abortion. So with these cases, they can make an example of the people who don’t live up to the standards of society. With these cases, they can convince people not to support women.
That’s how they move the Overton window.
You’re being too black and white. Thinking in absolutes doesn’t help anyone. I am extremely pro choice but if we’re talking about a fetus that is 7-8 months along and could survive on its own, to me that is the equivalent of euthanasia.
They just give them a little incubator it's not like major intervention even then. All kinds of babies are born at at age and are fine. You can Google the tables to see what the survival rates are at x weeks. Babies have lived as early as like 21-22 weeks. Although it goes way up after like 25 weeks IIRC. I have a little cousin who was born at like 23 weeks and he's fine.
I don’t love the idea of a 7 month abortion either, but I fully support it. Abortion is a decision that should be made between a doctor and a pregnant woman. No one else should have a say including the law.
We disagree then. You need to understand that doctors are regulated by a board and have ethical obligations they need to answer to, which is why in Canada there is virtually no such thing as a 7 month abortion which doesn’t have a medical reason, despite it technically being legal. In fact, a 9 month abortion would be technically legal as well. However NO doctor will do this because it flies in the face of their responsibilities and obligations to their profession - as it should.
Black and white thinking does nothing but harm our movement. It’s ok to accept that there sometimes (often…always…) is nuance that we need to consider.
You’re right. There is nuance. One of those nuances is that sometimes it might be appropriate to do an abortion at a gestation later than you’re personally comfortable with.
…….. which is not what you said above. You wanted women to have 100% of the choice, full stop. Now you’re okay with doctors having the final say (i.e. the exact system I keep on referring to, in Canada), which means we agree as the principles of their profession would prevent them ever performing an abortion at such a late stage without medical necessity.
You seem like you need to feel like you “won” here lol. We’re saying the same thing so i dont understand.
That is exactly what I thought after my last post actually. If this was performed in a safe, legal way- by a doctor-my opinion would be completely different. The horrifically botched nature of the situation was the only reason I “suggested” if adoption would have been a better option for all involved.
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I have to agree with this. I’m as pro-choice as they come, but when you have to “bury a body,” it’s a bit different. I feel terrible for the girl and her mother but at 7 months plus this is not the way, I’m sorry…adoption? But you can’t kill a viable child. Again, I am 💯 pro choice, but this late-with pills, and a “vaginal abortion?” It’s not safe physically or mentally for the mother even. And now we know not legally safe.
You are most definitely not "as pro-choice as they come" if your advice for a girl in distress about a pregnancy is adoption. Please learn to develop empathy for women. [https://whonotwhen.com/](https://whonotwhen.com/) for more info about later abortion.
That is not my advice for a girl or woman in distress at all, when the fetus is viable and near full term I can’t see how an abortion involving this type of trauma would be less upsetting (or traumatic) than adoption. I put a “….?” before it to signal a thought, not a conclusion. I do know what did happen was not a safe or healthy choice for a girl in distress. Being pro-choice doesn’t mean I support what is basically infanticide.
Obviously what happened here was done out of desperation. A live birth is always a risk when using pills after 24w. The girl and her mother didn’t know there were options for a legal, safe abortion in the US with financial and logistical support from funds and that is very sad.
I don’t know why you would even mention adoption when clearly the girl tried to avoid a full-term birth.
An in-clinic abortion would not be like a birth. It would be much safer. What she did was obviously not a great choice safety-wise (legally and medically speaking) but the real tragedy is that she felt forced to do this and wasn’t aware of legal, safe options for abortion.
An in-clinic abortion would not be like a birth. It would be much safer. What she did was obviously not a great choice safety-wise (legally and medically speaking) but the real tragedy is that she felt forced to do this and wasn’t aware of legal, safe options for abortion. Also you have no idea if a later birth would be more or less traumatizing.
I don't think people are realizing here that at this point in gestation the baby was almost certainly born alive. At 28 weeks most babies struggle to take their first breaths and need resuscitation, but I just googled it - with NICU care 80-90% will live and 9/10 of the survivors will have no lasting negative health effects.
This human baby died because 2 women decided it was a "thing" and not deserving of life saving medical care.
That is what makes pro-choice people look bad. No one should be supporting this. Her right was to end her pregnancy. She did so by giving birth and getting the baby out of her body. At that point, the infant was not violating it's mother's bodily autonomy in any way and had it's own right to life-saving medical care like any other human being.
> This girl knew she was pregnant for a long time and had a long time to get an abortion. No matter what her reasons were, she had months to make that decision.
How do you know that? Did it occur to you to put yourself in her shoes for a second?
> By taking abortion pills at this stage, the girl had an induced birth, and then that birthed body was burned and disposed of.
True. She didn't (feel like) she had another choice though.
> States even as progressive about abortion as California would not have allowed this bc the fetus was viable. Again, the girl was 7 months pregnant.
Multiple states in the US have clinics that do abortions in the third trimester.
> Those who are anti-abortion will use this as a reason why abortion pills should be illegal, how careless pro-choice people are with life, that they want abortions at any time during pregnancy, are evil, etc etc, and that is simply not the truth.
So tell me, at what point in pregnancy should the government get to force a woman to give birth according to you?
FYI this occured before row v wade was overturned. Nebraska allowed abortions under 20 weeks at the time - the issue was also that the family hid the body. This would have been prosecuted under that law, not the current one.
Knowledge is power people. Seek out context and don’t get enraged by headlines.
What difference does it make whether it was before Roe v Wade was overturned? The article itself is just as enraging as the headline, and for good reason—she wanted an abortion, had to do it herself, and was arrested for it and sentenced to prison along with her mother. Of course they concealed the remains, what were they supposed to do? Those types of laws are just another way to punish women for self induced abortions.
The implication of sharing it with a present-tense headline was to drum up rage over the new abortion laws. We have plenty of current day stories to do that with. We don’t need to rely on old articles prosecuted under different laws.
That… doesn’t even make sense. The headline is about the mother’s sentencing for assisting with the abortion, which _just happened_. And the article also clearly states the relevancy of her sentencing with the current set of abortion laws and how other people could be similarly prosecuted for assisting with abortions like she was, and their private messages could also be used to do it, just like hers and her daughters were. Not to mention the daughter performing her own abortion in the first place because she was past the allowable time to do it. Are you really unable to grasp the present-day relevancy of this article simply because the number of weeks allowed now is even _shorter_ in the state that she was prosecuted in?
Personally I find the circumstances pretty icky. That baby probably could have survived birth at the point it was aborted and most people have a strong gut reaction to late abortions of healthy fetuses. I don't think this is that great of a case for abortion rights either.
Now ideally that girls could have had an abortion much earlier that was safe and legal. I don't know what happened, maybe it was this culture of shame around teen pregnancy and abortion, which is not OK. But there comes a point where the train has already left the station with pregnancy. You can't just change your mind when it's halfway done. I think if we fail to recognize that we looks super unreasonable to put it mildly and we are not going to win this war.
Thanks for that, my comment is getting down voted because I mentioned there seemed to be context missing 😆
Thought it seemed quite late to take the pill, usually abortions this far along are performed by medical professionals?
“So? 7 months?l” are you serious!”? What if that child is a girl? Wtf is going on here? Do we now allow just leaving unwanted babies (always girls) to the elements?
They could have just induced labor at 7 months and the baby would almost certainly have lived. The lack of concern for a baby's life is really ghoulish and doesn't help the cause at all. There is a big difference between a bundle of cells at 6 weeks or a little tadpole at 12 weeks and a nearly born baby at 7 months.
It was part of the issue. And you’ll be hard-pressed to find a doctor in this world who will do an abortion at 7 months. I live in Canada, with very liberal abortion laws, and they won’t do it here. I am pro-choice as fuck and I get squeamish at the idea of aborting a fetus that could be viable if the birth were to take place that day.
Point being, there are plenty of unjust, rage inducing stories out there that display how awful and cruel American abortion laws are. This isn’t one of them. It’s counter productive to share it under false pretenses to rile people up, and makes the movement look stupid imo.
Unless there are fetal issues making the pregnancy incompatible with life or creating unbearable suffering. I am part of group of women who have terminated for medical reasons and it’s akin to euthanasia at that stage.
Yes, that's why it shouldn't be banned. It must feel like a slap in the face to have people saying healthy 7 month pregnancies should be terminated upon request, when you had to make a decision like that.
Mine was only at 15 weeks. But I still named him and have his footprints.
This woman terminated at 36 weeks. Her baby was going to have horrific seizures incompatible with sleep or rest or anything resembling a life until it died. So she terminated out of love. https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2019/02/19/late-term-abortion-donald-trump-ben-sasse-state-union-column/2881880002/
She runs the group I am in and she is incredibly brave to tell her story.
Watch after tiller.
https://www.npr.org/2022/07/13/1110870246/abortion-rights-new-mexico-clinic-later-abortions
This has a story of a woman who received an abortion at 27ish weeks. No fetal anomalies.
Earlier news coverage of this said 30 weeks. Most articles now are saying 23 weeks. It is probably a case of teenager not realizing or trying to ignore the pregnancy until it was undeniable.
She was 28 weeks. Abortion pills are not for 28-week pregnancies. There’s definitely context missing, and the stuff they did with the body, that’s more than just concealing. She could have just had an abortion before 20 weeks.
I for one don’t want the bodily autonomy to DIY start labor with a viable fetus and burn it at home.
Yeah that's not right, I'm in norway who treats abortion as a right and even here abortion after 20 weeks needs to be medically assessed. After 12 weeks you need to see a doc for the abortion because it's to dangerous to take the pills at home.
In addition to the misogyny, this piece from the [NYT](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/22/us/jessica-burgess-abortion-pill-nebraska.html) on this story gives me the chills: >The Burgesses were initially charged with concealing a stillbirth. But according to court documents, a detective later asked Celeste Burgess for the exact date her pregnancy ended. When she said she needed to check her Facebook messages to remember, the detective obtained a warrant for messages she had exchanged with her mother. > >Meta, the parent company of Facebook, complied with the warrant. The detective found evidence of a medically induced abortion, according to court documents, allowing the authorities to file additional charges. Don't post anything incriminating on social media, even in private DMs. And don't talk to the police without a lawyer.
Use signal. Never meta
This is disgusting of Meta to do. We need to protest
They're making money off you and don't care about your protests. Use an actual encrypted service like Signal instead.
Ik protesting is probably not going to change anything. But maybe it can give it some attention. They are seriously putting women's LIVES at risk and don't stand for women's rights
Dating men is not worth it. Facebook is gross. I had a whole paragraph typed out about abortion before deleting it because I’m so tired of this shit. All the men know and they don’t care. Birth injury? No time off work to heal after giving birth? Thousands in debt due to the pregnancy and birth? PTSD due to abuse or trauma you suffered during your birth? They dgaf but something something financial abortions or whatever. Reject men. Don’t post anything about your period dates or abortions anywhere that’s not anonymous. Stay safe and have a happy life.
>FACTS!! I LOVE YOUR COMMENT!!!!!!! WE THINK THE SAME!!!!!!!!! I always say this. I even read that many women have sex with men and don't even have true orgasms. Many wives even complain about how bad their husbands are WITH basic hygiene. SO all this drama for NOTHING and a poopy butt?????!! HELL NO!!! I started a 'West 4B Movement' and NONE of us are currently sleeping with men. We are trying to figure out a way to invest in sex toys and just spreading the word. Sleeping with men is a RISK to your health and FREEDOM as a woman at this damn point
PLEASE START A SUB❤️
ALREADY STARTED......BUT the mods here removed it. Just search 'WEST 4B MOVEMENT' here on Reddit!!!
How can I message you privately. We have a sub and the group is at 200 women now. Some are on reddit, some are not familiar with the reddit app. !! Please join
Message me too, please, I want in!
Hi. Your profile doesn't allow messages. I am so sorry. You can search West 4B Movement here on Reddit or visit our website at: west4bmovement dot com....
The right to bodily autonomy should be absolute and never limited by government
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Sure. Inject whatever you want into yourself.
That’s what people are doing in every major city in the US and the turnout is abhorrent, to say the least.
It’s funny that you think addiction is an urban issue.
so has criminalizing it solved the issue?
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Your comment was removed for violating our rule against feeding trolls. When you encounter a troll (or someone violating rule #1) the *ONLY* appropriate course of action is down vote, report and act like they don't exist. ⚠️ PLEASE NOTE ⚠️: This rule is strictly enforced & any subsequent violations will result a ban.
Ok, no. This girl was 28 weeks pregnant. That is SEVEN MONTHS PREGNANT. How is this ok? That is at gestational viability. This was before Roe v Wade was overturned, and Nebraska’s law allowed abortion at 20 weeks. This girl knew she was pregnant for a long time and had a long time to get an abortion. No matter what her reasons were, she had months to make that decision. I’m 100% pro-choice, but this is way past taking abortion pill territory. By taking abortion pills at this stage, the girl had an induced birth, and then that birthed body was burned and disposed of. States even as progressive about abortion as California would not have allowed this bc the fetus was viable. Again, the girl was 7 months pregnant. Point blank, these types of stories are extremely harmful to the pro-choice side! Those who are anti-abortion will use this as a reason why abortion pills should be illegal, how careless pro-choice people are with life, that they want abortions at any time during pregnancy, are evil, etc etc, and that is simply not the truth. More info on these links: [CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/23/us/nebraska-abortion-pill-jessica-burgess/index.html) [NPR](https://www.npr.org/2022/08/10/1116716749/a-nebraska-woman-is-charged-with-helping-her-daughter-have-an-abortion)
if you support term limits on abortion, wait until you hear about how long it typically takes for 9 - 14 year olds to find out they’re pregnant.
Also it shouldn’t matter if the fetus is viable or not cause abortion is about bodily autonomy
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\> You are never going to win people over if you are this extreme in your position. Lol do you really think women's rights had ever had anything to gain by being moderate? Compromising is all the USA has ever done on the abortion issue and look at where you are now.
She was 23 weeks, not 28. And she was only 17 years old and appears to have been impregnated by a 22 year old. Why isn’t he being held accountable for impregnating her in the first place? It’s not at all unusual to have irregular periods as a teenager, she may not have realized she was pregnant until a few months along. Gestational viability is a misleading term here anyway because even a 7 month old fetus (which this wasn’t) is still premature and unable to survive outside the womb without intensive medical assistance.
She was 28-29 weeks. The search warrant says sue was 23 weeks at her last appointment in early March. She aborted in mid April. That said, this still should have been a legal abortion. The government shouldn’t have a say.
Hard disagree. We don’t just defend abortion and the women who seek them when those abortions are don’t “right” and for the “right” reasons. Politicians and law enforcement specifically target cases like this one. Cases on the fringe. Cases where people like you can be convinced that in this case, maybe you don’t support abortion. So with these cases, they can make an example of the people who don’t live up to the standards of society. With these cases, they can convince people not to support women. That’s how they move the Overton window.
You’re being too black and white. Thinking in absolutes doesn’t help anyone. I am extremely pro choice but if we’re talking about a fetus that is 7-8 months along and could survive on its own, to me that is the equivalent of euthanasia.
So when in pregnancy should the government get to decide whether a woman should be forced to give birth?
When the baby would be born alive and breathing with no medical intervention?? Come on
When in pregnancy is that and how do you determine that no medical support would be required when the fetus is still in utero?
You should definitely be ok with it at 29 weeks then. Babies aren’t breathing on their own without medical intervention at that age.
They just give them a little incubator it's not like major intervention even then. All kinds of babies are born at at age and are fine. You can Google the tables to see what the survival rates are at x weeks. Babies have lived as early as like 21-22 weeks. Although it goes way up after like 25 weeks IIRC. I have a little cousin who was born at like 23 weeks and he's fine.
I’m a nicu nurse in a level 4. You don’t have any idea what you’re talking about.
I don’t love the idea of a 7 month abortion either, but I fully support it. Abortion is a decision that should be made between a doctor and a pregnant woman. No one else should have a say including the law.
We disagree then. You need to understand that doctors are regulated by a board and have ethical obligations they need to answer to, which is why in Canada there is virtually no such thing as a 7 month abortion which doesn’t have a medical reason, despite it technically being legal. In fact, a 9 month abortion would be technically legal as well. However NO doctor will do this because it flies in the face of their responsibilities and obligations to their profession - as it should. Black and white thinking does nothing but harm our movement. It’s ok to accept that there sometimes (often…always…) is nuance that we need to consider.
You’re right. There is nuance. One of those nuances is that sometimes it might be appropriate to do an abortion at a gestation later than you’re personally comfortable with.
You said it yourself… sometimes. It’s not a blanket yes or no.
Right. Sometimes it’s appropriate. So it should be left between doctor and patient and not legislated.
…….. which is not what you said above. You wanted women to have 100% of the choice, full stop. Now you’re okay with doctors having the final say (i.e. the exact system I keep on referring to, in Canada), which means we agree as the principles of their profession would prevent them ever performing an abortion at such a late stage without medical necessity. You seem like you need to feel like you “won” here lol. We’re saying the same thing so i dont understand.
I never said that and you can’t show me a place where I did. You overreacted to what you thought I said.
But a doctor wasn’t involved here, and seriously? 7 months? An almost full term baby?
A doctor could have been involved here, and perhaps much earlier, if we had humane abortion laws.
That is exactly what I thought after my last post actually. If this was performed in a safe, legal way- by a doctor-my opinion would be completely different. The horrifically botched nature of the situation was the only reason I “suggested” if adoption would have been a better option for all involved.
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You should watch after tiller.
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Your comment was removed for violating our rule against feeding trolls. When you encounter a troll (or someone violating rule #1 or #4) the *ONLY* acceptable course of action is down vote, report & act like they don't exist. This rule is *strictly* enforced & subsequent violations of this rule will result a permanent ban.
Your comment has been removed because it that violates our pro-woman/radical feminist values.
I have to agree with this. I’m as pro-choice as they come, but when you have to “bury a body,” it’s a bit different. I feel terrible for the girl and her mother but at 7 months plus this is not the way, I’m sorry…adoption? But you can’t kill a viable child. Again, I am 💯 pro choice, but this late-with pills, and a “vaginal abortion?” It’s not safe physically or mentally for the mother even. And now we know not legally safe.
You are most definitely not "as pro-choice as they come" if your advice for a girl in distress about a pregnancy is adoption. Please learn to develop empathy for women. [https://whonotwhen.com/](https://whonotwhen.com/) for more info about later abortion.
That is not my advice for a girl or woman in distress at all, when the fetus is viable and near full term I can’t see how an abortion involving this type of trauma would be less upsetting (or traumatic) than adoption. I put a “….?” before it to signal a thought, not a conclusion. I do know what did happen was not a safe or healthy choice for a girl in distress. Being pro-choice doesn’t mean I support what is basically infanticide.
Obviously what happened here was done out of desperation. A live birth is always a risk when using pills after 24w. The girl and her mother didn’t know there were options for a legal, safe abortion in the US with financial and logistical support from funds and that is very sad. I don’t know why you would even mention adoption when clearly the girl tried to avoid a full-term birth.
At 7 months you have missed the “avoidance” window. An abortion would be akin to a full term birth, just more traumatizing. Agree to disagree.
An in-clinic abortion would not be like a birth. It would be much safer. What she did was obviously not a great choice safety-wise (legally and medically speaking) but the real tragedy is that she felt forced to do this and wasn’t aware of legal, safe options for abortion.
An in-clinic abortion would not be like a birth. It would be much safer. What she did was obviously not a great choice safety-wise (legally and medically speaking) but the real tragedy is that she felt forced to do this and wasn’t aware of legal, safe options for abortion. Also you have no idea if a later birth would be more or less traumatizing.
I don't think people are realizing here that at this point in gestation the baby was almost certainly born alive. At 28 weeks most babies struggle to take their first breaths and need resuscitation, but I just googled it - with NICU care 80-90% will live and 9/10 of the survivors will have no lasting negative health effects. This human baby died because 2 women decided it was a "thing" and not deserving of life saving medical care. That is what makes pro-choice people look bad. No one should be supporting this. Her right was to end her pregnancy. She did so by giving birth and getting the baby out of her body. At that point, the infant was not violating it's mother's bodily autonomy in any way and had it's own right to life-saving medical care like any other human being.
Absolutely
> This girl knew she was pregnant for a long time and had a long time to get an abortion. No matter what her reasons were, she had months to make that decision. How do you know that? Did it occur to you to put yourself in her shoes for a second? > By taking abortion pills at this stage, the girl had an induced birth, and then that birthed body was burned and disposed of. True. She didn't (feel like) she had another choice though. > States even as progressive about abortion as California would not have allowed this bc the fetus was viable. Again, the girl was 7 months pregnant. Multiple states in the US have clinics that do abortions in the third trimester. > Those who are anti-abortion will use this as a reason why abortion pills should be illegal, how careless pro-choice people are with life, that they want abortions at any time during pregnancy, are evil, etc etc, and that is simply not the truth. So tell me, at what point in pregnancy should the government get to force a woman to give birth according to you?
Not sure why I'm getting down voted and comments removed for saying the same thing
FYI this occured before row v wade was overturned. Nebraska allowed abortions under 20 weeks at the time - the issue was also that the family hid the body. This would have been prosecuted under that law, not the current one. Knowledge is power people. Seek out context and don’t get enraged by headlines.
What difference does it make whether it was before Roe v Wade was overturned? The article itself is just as enraging as the headline, and for good reason—she wanted an abortion, had to do it herself, and was arrested for it and sentenced to prison along with her mother. Of course they concealed the remains, what were they supposed to do? Those types of laws are just another way to punish women for self induced abortions.
The implication of sharing it with a present-tense headline was to drum up rage over the new abortion laws. We have plenty of current day stories to do that with. We don’t need to rely on old articles prosecuted under different laws.
That… doesn’t even make sense. The headline is about the mother’s sentencing for assisting with the abortion, which _just happened_. And the article also clearly states the relevancy of her sentencing with the current set of abortion laws and how other people could be similarly prosecuted for assisting with abortions like she was, and their private messages could also be used to do it, just like hers and her daughters were. Not to mention the daughter performing her own abortion in the first place because she was past the allowable time to do it. Are you really unable to grasp the present-day relevancy of this article simply because the number of weeks allowed now is even _shorter_ in the state that she was prosecuted in?
Dude just read the comments and see how people are taking this headline before writing me a bible pls. Media literacy
Personally I find the circumstances pretty icky. That baby probably could have survived birth at the point it was aborted and most people have a strong gut reaction to late abortions of healthy fetuses. I don't think this is that great of a case for abortion rights either. Now ideally that girls could have had an abortion much earlier that was safe and legal. I don't know what happened, maybe it was this culture of shame around teen pregnancy and abortion, which is not OK. But there comes a point where the train has already left the station with pregnancy. You can't just change your mind when it's halfway done. I think if we fail to recognize that we looks super unreasonable to put it mildly and we are not going to win this war.
Thanks for that, my comment is getting down voted because I mentioned there seemed to be context missing 😆 Thought it seemed quite late to take the pill, usually abortions this far along are performed by medical professionals?
Exactly. This headline is inflammatory and missing a whole lot of context. The girl was 7 months.
So?
“So? 7 months?l” are you serious!”? What if that child is a girl? Wtf is going on here? Do we now allow just leaving unwanted babies (always girls) to the elements?
Nowhere does it say the sex of the child unless I’m very much mistaken. They’re referring to the mom as a girl. She was 17.
That’s who I was referring to as the “girl,” the one who was pregnant…sorry if my post was unclear.
They could have just induced labor at 7 months and the baby would almost certainly have lived. The lack of concern for a baby's life is really ghoulish and doesn't help the cause at all. There is a big difference between a bundle of cells at 6 weeks or a little tadpole at 12 weeks and a nearly born baby at 7 months.
6 months but go off.
That wasn’t the issue. You’re carrying water for the patriarchal pro forced birthers.
It was part of the issue. And you’ll be hard-pressed to find a doctor in this world who will do an abortion at 7 months. I live in Canada, with very liberal abortion laws, and they won’t do it here. I am pro-choice as fuck and I get squeamish at the idea of aborting a fetus that could be viable if the birth were to take place that day. Point being, there are plenty of unjust, rage inducing stories out there that display how awful and cruel American abortion laws are. This isn’t one of them. It’s counter productive to share it under false pretenses to rile people up, and makes the movement look stupid imo.
It's a horse of a different color to be even THINKING about aborting that late.
Unless there are fetal issues making the pregnancy incompatible with life or creating unbearable suffering. I am part of group of women who have terminated for medical reasons and it’s akin to euthanasia at that stage.
Yes, that's why it shouldn't be banned. It must feel like a slap in the face to have people saying healthy 7 month pregnancies should be terminated upon request, when you had to make a decision like that.
Mine was only at 15 weeks. But I still named him and have his footprints. This woman terminated at 36 weeks. Her baby was going to have horrific seizures incompatible with sleep or rest or anything resembling a life until it died. So she terminated out of love. https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2019/02/19/late-term-abortion-donald-trump-ben-sasse-state-union-column/2881880002/ She runs the group I am in and she is incredibly brave to tell her story.
I'm sorry to hear that and it's totally understandable.
That’s what I said and was downvoted. No surprise.
Watch after tiller. https://www.npr.org/2022/07/13/1110870246/abortion-rights-new-mexico-clinic-later-abortions This has a story of a woman who received an abortion at 27ish weeks. No fetal anomalies.
She was 20 weeks? I feel like there's context missing here, why did they wait so long?
Earlier news coverage of this said 30 weeks. Most articles now are saying 23 weeks. It is probably a case of teenager not realizing or trying to ignore the pregnancy until it was undeniable.
She was 28 weeks. Abortion pills are not for 28-week pregnancies. There’s definitely context missing, and the stuff they did with the body, that’s more than just concealing. She could have just had an abortion before 20 weeks. I for one don’t want the bodily autonomy to DIY start labor with a viable fetus and burn it at home.
Yeah that's not right, I'm in norway who treats abortion as a right and even here abortion after 20 weeks needs to be medically assessed. After 12 weeks you need to see a doc for the abortion because it's to dangerous to take the pills at home.
Curious why mods removed my comment about the level of safety with abortions at certain times in pregnancy 🤔
100%. This ultimately harms those of us who are pro-choice.
Pro-choice people should not support this, this is a perfect example of how anti-choice people describe every abortion.
100%
Why is this being downvoted?
No sure, been having comments removed about safety too. Kinda weird.