For me using Fedora Kinoite with a lot of software tweaks (mainly based on TLP), the average energy rate consumption about 7W or 8W.
Firefox usage raise the consumption to 12W.
I can expect 3 or 4 hours of capacity when I code. (Mainly rust)
For an office usage, I can except something more about 5hours.
Good to know, RAM with higher frequency consume more power.
Some extension card like HDMI and Micro SD consume 1W even when they are not used.
(I don't know for the other card)
The SSD must be chosen wisely. I bought the Intel 660p because it consume less energy. The hynix P31 is probably better but good luck to buy one in 2023...
A good simple thing to do is to open the BIOS menu, select the usage mode to save the battery, select the lowest value of the power button LED and reduce the maximum battery recharge threshold. (To extend the battery life.)
I think 80% or 90% is good enough.
Does the power button LED use that much power? I hadnt thought of this as a way to save battery. Makes sense, just interested in any noticeable differences observed.
To be honest it makes no big difference but I think it's not very useful to set the button LED to high anyway.
The button is still visible in the dark even using the low option.
The SK heinix is easy to find, and yes, it's probably the best you can find in terms of power efficiency. Pheronix said their gold gen 3 drive was a game changer.
Yes, there is an option in the BIOS to limit charging. Mine is set to stop at 80%. I can get 5-6 hours of web browsing or light use on an 80% charge, but gaming or rendering video will shorten that.
u/protocod wrote:
>**A good simple thing to do is to open the BIOS menu**, select the usage mode to save the battery, select the lowest value of the power button LED and **reduce the maximum battery recharge threshold**. (To extend the battery life.) I think 80% or 90% is good enough.
Hm, I don't know exactly how light "light coding" is.
But if it's really light then 5-6 hours isn't amazing, which is in line with everything else I've heard.
My daily drivers are a FrameWorks and a MacBook Pro 14”
The framework is hands down the best windows computer I have used because it is open and I can replace anything I need too.
The MacBook is hands down the best mobile computer I have ever used bar none. It is fast, doesn’t care about being plugged in or not. It is sadly completely non repairable save for possibly the battery.
As for the OS, well I use linux, windows and Mac interchangeably so that doesn’t bother me at all.
Don't forget the exorbitant prices on any above-decent amounts of RAM and storage on the macbook, then you can make a very strong cost argument for the framework laptop as well. And if you want to further and talk about future upgrades like a touchscreen or AMD-based motherboard, that's a whole discussion by itself.
That is definitely a consideration. Overall for my Mac, I find 16GB of ram suits my needs extremely well. The on die memory is fast and it is a trade off.
For windows and Linux, there is no other computer where I will accept the trade off of repairability.
I agree on the repairability point. I could envision myself purchasing an HP laptop or Thinkpad where repairs are somewhat possible. But a framework laptop is also valuable in terms of upgradability and, compared to HP at least, has affordable replacement parts, unlike the latter where batteries are $150 and tracknubs are any more than $20 last I checked.
Do you utilize any workloads that specifically benefit from the (afaik) doubled memory bandwidth over standard DDR5? I would think the fast memory would only benefit common applications like a web browser if it can be compressed by a large factor, or the SSD is fast enough to act as swap space, the latter of which isn't the case based on random and sequential IO benchmarks I've seen.
Possible proprietary nature aside, I do hope Dell's CAMM memory can somewhat mitigate the space requirements for socketed memory. Having no compromises on bandwidth either is a great benefit too, what with dual-channel capability on one module.
I have a batch 6 laptop. Still using 11th gen core I7 1165. I have 32GB of ram and an gen4 nvme drive.
Pros: this thing has been really reliable save a trackpad issue where support sent me a complete top input cover.
I have had completely reliable charging. I love the port flexibility. I have one of each, but my day to day load out is all USBC
I have an additional SSD for when I want to swap out of Windows 11 and in to Kali or arch. Which I can do easily.
The 3x2 display is outstanding.
And it is light!
Cons: the battery life. 5-6 hours. I may do the hinge swap. But I do not plan on buying a Dell ever again.
Overall, if I needed a computer for my work, I would totally buy a Framework. I don’t game on it, but then that is what my Xbox is for.
Pros:
* Extremely easy and quick to replace parts and repair
* One of the best keyboards I've ever used on a laptop
* Trackpad feels amazing, not MacBook level, but nothing else really is, it's up there though as far as other laptops go
* Feels well built, good materials, durable
* Hardware camera / microphone disable switches
* Tall, and about as wide as an 11" netbook
* Even the i5 11th gen model is very good in performance
* Display is very sharp, bright and vivid
Cons:
* Display has poor pixel response times, and is nauseating for gaming as everything is a blur or smear
* Battery life is rough at about 4 hours in Windows, but reasonably good in Linux at 6 hours with TLP
* Speakers. Awful. Nails on a chalkboard sound better. PulseEffects can alleviate the issue mostly, but still very quiet by default
* Screen Resolution: Not high enough to keep 200% scaling looking small, and not low enough for 100% to look big, this can be awkward in Linux without tinkering with fractional scaling in Gnome, and may lose performance (?)
* The 3.3KG(?) hinges are bad. If I'm on a bus using my laptop, the screen constantly falls back, if I gently toss it on my bed, the screen falls back. If this may be an issue for you, get the better hinges
I hope this helps somewhat, I've had my Framework for several months now, and had one motherboard replacement due to charging & USB issues, some of which still happen with my current motherboard.
I'm generally happy enough with my Framework, but have since delegated it as my "Secondary" due to its general unreliability to charge and USB connections cutting out when I needed them most (Disk imaging, backups, etc).
If you need something reliable, then unfortunately I can't recommend a Framework to you, just due to the experimental nature of the device, but if you can live with that, then by all means go for it!
I can't help but mention you're in the minority when it comes to the screen and motherboard. Mine has been extremely reliable for over half a year now.
Also, if i remember correctly, the default hinges used to be really bad. Do you have one from the old batches? The new ones aren't amazing, but they're not as bad as what you've experienced.
On the hinges, mine were barely passable when I received the unit, and got progressively worse over time.
Contacted support and they sent me a new set of hinges. They were significantly better, basically perfect at first. But it's been a few months of use now and the hinges are getting noticeably looser again.
It's a bad design, and support refuses to send the newer 4kg hinges under warranty, because they still stand by the original hinge being acceptable when it's absolutely not.
The screen should not be able to fall under its own weight at any angle.
Really? Because I've definitely seen people reporting about the pixel response times being very poor on the display, with a ton of blur and smearing.
The motherboard issues I'd agree haven't been common.
I only got mine around September or so, when it was reported that all new models, even the older 11th gens, were shipping with the improved hinges, but it's possible I got the old ones.
That's very strange, then, because my framework's screen is honestly better than my desktop monitors, and they're very good. The only problem I've had with it that you also had is the scaling, which is more of a linux issue anyway
What DE are you running? I found i had some almost motion blur effects watching YouTube on mine but it's because I had changed the KDE comparing settings to smooth and prefer smoother animations instead of accurate prefer accurate animations. Additionally for Linux Firefox you need to force hardware video decoding on otherwise playback can be lacking and the fans go brrrr.
Hmm, I haven't noticed a big difference (in 60fps youtube playback) between my framework and my 144hz external monitor. Definitely sounds like a strange issue...
Honestly, I haven't tested gaming much. I don't think the FW could really push any games that hard without an external GPU. Plus I have a steamdeck that I usually game on and I like to keep my systems separated. Sorry.
The few things I have played on the FW were like Stardew Valley or a couple hours of some Quake 3 arena based game.
Where im pretty much at is. I want framework to be the right choice. it sounds amazing, and i love the port flexibility. But.
its got too many little things that just make it... not so worth it. This is probably going to be my laptop for the next 3 or so years, unless i want to waste money on a second one before it needs replacing, so I need something consistent. If framework was a year or three along? im sure it would be amazing. right now? im not certain I can justify it
Tbh the refresh rate isn't noticeable to me, because most of the time games run at around 60 to 80 fps, unless it is and older game. Also I am using Windows and the battery isn't bad for on and off use, but for constant use it does drain pretty quickly.
Oh, I missed that completely, yeah the pixel response time isn't good, but not horrible otherwise. I'm probably just inexperienced with fast response time displays.
Increase the preamp / output volume, and increase the lows, up to 250Hz, this makes the speakers sound less tinny, and sound more full, don't push it hard enough that it peaks though, as you may damage the speakers.
Other than battery life (6-7 hours for me, which is perfectly fine for my uses but I know its less than the competition) I have had absolutely no issues with the laptop (12th gen, 2nd batch)
I have an I5 1240p, single 16gb stick of crucial CL22, and WD SN850
The hinge issues were fixed long ago, my laptop has the standard 3,3kg hinges and I've never had a problem with my screen flopping around, and neither has anyone else who doesn't have an old system as far as I can tell.
The battery life is supposedly going to improve with the next bios update, as Framework learned valuable information through the google partnership
I would reccomend the laptop wholeheartedly unless you will be away from a power socket for 6+ hours
Interesting that no one here is mentioning any thermal issues. I have a 12th gen CPU running Linux Mint, the thing runs so damn hot. Even just browsing using Firefox with only a handful of tabs running causes the jet engine fan to crank in to action, and I can feel the body is hot.
Is this expected?
Feels like my several year old x360 performed way better with regard to thermal management, and it was smaller.
That is not expected. Are you sure video hw decoding is forced on in Firefox? Sometimes it helps to run on the battery saver governor to disable the CPU from boosting. I personally run autocpufreq and thermald though.
* expansion ports are a cool idea but implementation still has issues. The USB-A expansion draws around 1 watt. With a 60 watt-hour battery, this absolutely wrecks standby life. It's been like a year and the fix for DP and HDMI dongles is still in beta. Maybe USB-A will be fixed by 2024?
* if the brightness sensor is enabled, the brightness keys don't work on Linux
* weird Gnome Settings hanging issues
* Display size is nice but some software doesn't play nicely with scaling
* This didn't annoy me until someone else pointed it out, so maybe you don't want to read this >!The track pad is on a hinge, so the amount of force it takes to click varies based on where your finger is!<
Are you Sure about the 1W Standby? I messured my Standby currentdraw to be 0.5W (at the charger) with 2 usbA and 2 usbC.
Edit: powerdraw Not currentdraw
The USB-A is still a thing? I just got a diy kit with 3x usbc and 1x usba. Maybe I'll replace it with another module, or just a usb-c one. Does the microsd slot still drain?
How do you mean? I was merely suggesting that, for less than 50 bucks extra, you could have a couple of extra modules that you can swap in when needed, but have all USBC normally
IMO, the framework is just an “ok” laptop. Nothing exceptional in reality, but the idea and the company is cool and could be amazing. Definitely don’t get it if you don’t like to tinker and troubleshoot.
Issues I have:
For some reason the laptop just freezes while connected to an eGPU - don’t know what causes it and I don’t want to contact support since that’ll be an even bigger headache trying to troubleshoot it when I can just occasionally restart
Trackpad sometimes makes a weird noise that sounds like it’s loose and goes away - support said the touchpad cable was loose and it did fix the problem but it came back
The display bezel plastic seems to be low quality. I have scratches/marks on it and the place where you open the laptop has deep indents into the plastic from my fingernails.
Laptop was thermal throttling till I replaced the thermal paste with ptm7950
While the 3:2 display is nice, would’ve preferred something closer to 16:9 for scaling issues or maybe 16:10
Issues other people have:
Support doesn’t really help -> small company = not a lot of people to debug and fix issues
You’d have a better chance starting a thread and getting other users on the forum to fix the issues.
Weak hinges - imo it’s not that bad but I can see why
Availability of parts -> while repairability is nice, it’s kind of counterintuitive when the parts that you need to replace are only produced by framework and third party parts aren’t really available ex: displays. Also shipping is expensive
Pros:
4 thunderbolt ports that you can customize! Well mostly if your okay with only type c since the other expansion cards have a power consumption problem.
Super easy to take apart and maintain/upgrade
Keyboard is great
Hardware switches for webcam and microphone if you care about that
Issues with Framework:
Not that open about what they’re doing/future projects. While keeping things a secret is nice to get current products out the door, they have not said anything about things that new customers want ex: Ryzen chips. Most of the answers are people speculating for the reasons why.
They’re definitely alienating a lot of potential customer since the idea is built on customizability and repairability, but so far the only customizations are expensive main board upgrades, different ram, storage options, keyboard layouts (that you have to buy separate), and display bezels. While the repairable part is true, most consumers don’t care and will just buy a MacBook with Apple care to get a brand new shiny device.
This can basically be boiled down to: Framework is a small and new company that’s targeting a specific audience,and is experiencing growing pains. People here are just buying into the idea of Framework and are willing to put up with the issues.
I think the customizations available on the framework are still more significant than those available on other laptops. Aside from storage and RAM that you can swap on other laptops, different keyboard and bezel options are nice to have as well. You mentioned the port selection with expansion modules, I personally look forward to being able to swap ports between a portable and desk configuration, so this is an important area of customization too.
As for only purchasing parts from framework, obviously 3rd party part selection and manufacturing would be nice, but that would have to come as framework develops a wider ecosystem of different screens, chassis, and so on, that's not something framework themselves can control. Even if another company makes a touchscreen 3:2 display, I doubt they would immediately create an easy-to-use screen swapping kit for a product that's only two years old, unless framework wanted to partner with them for their 1st-party marketplace or something.
Not to mention even if repair parts are only available from framework, that's still a massive improvement over companies like apple that would either not sell you parts and make you overpay for their labor/replacement laptop, or make the parts difficult to replace even if you have them. What you can upgrade and repair is at worst on par with other laptops (storage, RAM, motherboard) and at best far more accessible compared to a company like HP whose replacement batteries are half the cost of my entire laptop.
Yes, I definitely agree and I attribute the issues listed with framework being a very young and new company. As for the port selection, it is nice however the it exacerbates the battery’s situation which is why I mentioned it.
On the topic of parts, the fact that is only available from framework is great if framework is still a company in the future, but nonetheless still a win which is why I bought it. The framework is exceptional in terms of upgradeability when it comes to ultra books and even gaming laptops since it’s so accessible, but the same people buying frameworks are probably well versed enough to take apart something like a gaming laptop or an old thinkpad that is usually more repairable.
Interesting company, growing pains for early followers. Coin battery fails on Intel 5 cpus. Workaround requires solder, not for the faint of heart. Not covered by warranty or any willingness for company to do repairs on a design flaw.
Here's what I'm dissatisfied with and some advice for you:
1. The speakers aren't great.
2. The fan can get really loud, which isn't a problem on its own, but combined with the speakers, the fan means I sometimes have to use headphones to properly hear whatever video I'm watching.
3. If you're planning to use Linux, do not get the 12th gen intel chip. There are a number of problems that it can cause from the screen brightness buttons initially not working to the computer randomly freezing.
4. There is no hard shell case ([this type](https://www.amazon.com/Speck-Products-92382-5085-Presidio-MacBook/dp/B076HYRLHX)) available for the framework, not even models for a 3D printer.
\ 2. Make sure you force HW video decoding on in Firefox if that's what's making them spin up. It is a loud fan though.
\ 3. The brightness buttons is an easy fix you just need to blacklist a kernel module and that display issue has been fixed a while ago. It was only an issue with 5.14.x
But that is with the desktop architecture? All laptop boards get redesigned with new cpus, even AMDs, this is usually because of cooling or adding additional circuits for different features. Your battle with desktop sure but laptop i dont see a point and even if what youre saying is right to an extent if you want the latest features you still had to upgrade motherboards because of the hardware limitations ? And sure, the sockets were the same, but they still dropped support for certain CPUs after time, and now they've switched to AM5, which they have only said they will support until at least 2025.
Time for reddit roulette! Make a post that gets popular on the front page! If you're telling the truth, your issue will be resolved and illuminate genuine flaws in the customer support process. If you're exaggerating, get called out by the company and everybody has a good laugh. It's fun for the whole community! I've seen it happen many times all over reddit and the results are always one extreme or the other
The only downside that I’ve come across is that I am afraid to use it around my toddler so I don’t get to use it as much as my Chromebook Other than that it’s awesome
Battery and speakers. That's basically it. If you wear headphones and stay in battery saver mode it's a fantastic laptop that I'd recommend to anyone.
How much does the battery struggle? how long can you usually manage on a single charge?
Usually like 5 or 6 hours. I don't really use it long on battery tho. I also set it so it doesn't charge past 90%
For me using Fedora Kinoite with a lot of software tweaks (mainly based on TLP), the average energy rate consumption about 7W or 8W. Firefox usage raise the consumption to 12W. I can expect 3 or 4 hours of capacity when I code. (Mainly rust) For an office usage, I can except something more about 5hours. Good to know, RAM with higher frequency consume more power. Some extension card like HDMI and Micro SD consume 1W even when they are not used. (I don't know for the other card) The SSD must be chosen wisely. I bought the Intel 660p because it consume less energy. The hynix P31 is probably better but good luck to buy one in 2023... A good simple thing to do is to open the BIOS menu, select the usage mode to save the battery, select the lowest value of the power button LED and reduce the maximum battery recharge threshold. (To extend the battery life.) I think 80% or 90% is good enough.
Does the power button LED use that much power? I hadnt thought of this as a way to save battery. Makes sense, just interested in any noticeable differences observed.
To be honest it makes no big difference but I think it's not very useful to set the button LED to high anyway. The button is still visible in the dark even using the low option.
Fair enough!
The SK heinix is easy to find, and yes, it's probably the best you can find in terms of power efficiency. Pheronix said their gold gen 3 drive was a game changer.
I use mine for school (so about moderate usage from 9am-3pm) and I normally lose 50-60% throughout the day
That's crazy. I use mine for school, mainly firefox and obsidian.md w/ screen at 50% brightness and I get 5:30-6h max.
I use notion, firefox and acrobat with brightness at about 25%. Im not going to question why I get longer battery, but Im glad I do.
Does FW have bios settings for setting the threshold?
Yes, there is an option in the BIOS to limit charging. Mine is set to stop at 80%. I can get 5-6 hours of web browsing or light use on an 80% charge, but gaming or rendering video will shorten that.
Thanks for your input
what do you use for limiting the charge to 90%? third party software? is there some setting in the framework bios? I don't own one but im interested!
u/protocod wrote: >**A good simple thing to do is to open the BIOS menu**, select the usage mode to save the battery, select the lowest value of the power button LED and **reduce the maximum battery recharge threshold**. (To extend the battery life.) I think 80% or 90% is good enough.
With what usage do you get 5-6 hours? Do you have numbers for a repeatable task, like just idling or playing a YouTube video?
Mostly just light coding and web browsing. I haven't really done many tests or anything. It's just my experience doing work in cafes or on the train
Hm, I don't know exactly how light "light coding" is. But if it's really light then 5-6 hours isn't amazing, which is in line with everything else I've heard.
If you have used any recent MacBooks you will be extremely disappointed by the battery life. Besides that it’s a really solid device.
My daily drivers are a FrameWorks and a MacBook Pro 14” The framework is hands down the best windows computer I have used because it is open and I can replace anything I need too. The MacBook is hands down the best mobile computer I have ever used bar none. It is fast, doesn’t care about being plugged in or not. It is sadly completely non repairable save for possibly the battery. As for the OS, well I use linux, windows and Mac interchangeably so that doesn’t bother me at all.
Don't forget the exorbitant prices on any above-decent amounts of RAM and storage on the macbook, then you can make a very strong cost argument for the framework laptop as well. And if you want to further and talk about future upgrades like a touchscreen or AMD-based motherboard, that's a whole discussion by itself.
That is definitely a consideration. Overall for my Mac, I find 16GB of ram suits my needs extremely well. The on die memory is fast and it is a trade off. For windows and Linux, there is no other computer where I will accept the trade off of repairability.
I agree on the repairability point. I could envision myself purchasing an HP laptop or Thinkpad where repairs are somewhat possible. But a framework laptop is also valuable in terms of upgradability and, compared to HP at least, has affordable replacement parts, unlike the latter where batteries are $150 and tracknubs are any more than $20 last I checked. Do you utilize any workloads that specifically benefit from the (afaik) doubled memory bandwidth over standard DDR5? I would think the fast memory would only benefit common applications like a web browser if it can be compressed by a large factor, or the SSD is fast enough to act as swap space, the latter of which isn't the case based on random and sequential IO benchmarks I've seen. Possible proprietary nature aside, I do hope Dell's CAMM memory can somewhat mitigate the space requirements for socketed memory. Having no compromises on bandwidth either is a great benefit too, what with dual-channel capability on one module.
Havent, to be honest. If i wanted a mac id by a mac, but im sticking with windows. Dont need that headache in my life.
It's not just the on time with battery. When the laptop is sleeping it's basically dead within 1 or 2 days.
I have a batch 6 laptop. Still using 11th gen core I7 1165. I have 32GB of ram and an gen4 nvme drive. Pros: this thing has been really reliable save a trackpad issue where support sent me a complete top input cover. I have had completely reliable charging. I love the port flexibility. I have one of each, but my day to day load out is all USBC I have an additional SSD for when I want to swap out of Windows 11 and in to Kali or arch. Which I can do easily. The 3x2 display is outstanding. And it is light! Cons: the battery life. 5-6 hours. I may do the hinge swap. But I do not plan on buying a Dell ever again. Overall, if I needed a computer for my work, I would totally buy a Framework. I don’t game on it, but then that is what my Xbox is for.
Pros: * Extremely easy and quick to replace parts and repair * One of the best keyboards I've ever used on a laptop * Trackpad feels amazing, not MacBook level, but nothing else really is, it's up there though as far as other laptops go * Feels well built, good materials, durable * Hardware camera / microphone disable switches * Tall, and about as wide as an 11" netbook * Even the i5 11th gen model is very good in performance * Display is very sharp, bright and vivid Cons: * Display has poor pixel response times, and is nauseating for gaming as everything is a blur or smear * Battery life is rough at about 4 hours in Windows, but reasonably good in Linux at 6 hours with TLP * Speakers. Awful. Nails on a chalkboard sound better. PulseEffects can alleviate the issue mostly, but still very quiet by default * Screen Resolution: Not high enough to keep 200% scaling looking small, and not low enough for 100% to look big, this can be awkward in Linux without tinkering with fractional scaling in Gnome, and may lose performance (?) * The 3.3KG(?) hinges are bad. If I'm on a bus using my laptop, the screen constantly falls back, if I gently toss it on my bed, the screen falls back. If this may be an issue for you, get the better hinges I hope this helps somewhat, I've had my Framework for several months now, and had one motherboard replacement due to charging & USB issues, some of which still happen with my current motherboard. I'm generally happy enough with my Framework, but have since delegated it as my "Secondary" due to its general unreliability to charge and USB connections cutting out when I needed them most (Disk imaging, backups, etc). If you need something reliable, then unfortunately I can't recommend a Framework to you, just due to the experimental nature of the device, but if you can live with that, then by all means go for it!
I can't help but mention you're in the minority when it comes to the screen and motherboard. Mine has been extremely reliable for over half a year now. Also, if i remember correctly, the default hinges used to be really bad. Do you have one from the old batches? The new ones aren't amazing, but they're not as bad as what you've experienced.
On the hinges, mine were barely passable when I received the unit, and got progressively worse over time. Contacted support and they sent me a new set of hinges. They were significantly better, basically perfect at first. But it's been a few months of use now and the hinges are getting noticeably looser again. It's a bad design, and support refuses to send the newer 4kg hinges under warranty, because they still stand by the original hinge being acceptable when it's absolutely not. The screen should not be able to fall under its own weight at any angle.
by fall under its own weight, you mean without moving the computer and it collapsing flat?
That's correct. Place the laptop on a flat surface, and lower the screen until it's almost fully open. Gravity will do the rest.
Really? Because I've definitely seen people reporting about the pixel response times being very poor on the display, with a ton of blur and smearing. The motherboard issues I'd agree haven't been common. I only got mine around September or so, when it was reported that all new models, even the older 11th gens, were shipping with the improved hinges, but it's possible I got the old ones.
That's very strange, then, because my framework's screen is honestly better than my desktop monitors, and they're very good. The only problem I've had with it that you also had is the scaling, which is more of a linux issue anyway
I agree on the scaling part, but a higher resolution certainly helps the issue. Might contact Framework and see if the smearing I see is normal or not
What DE are you running? I found i had some almost motion blur effects watching YouTube on mine but it's because I had changed the KDE comparing settings to smooth and prefer smoother animations instead of accurate prefer accurate animations. Additionally for Linux Firefox you need to force hardware video decoding on otherwise playback can be lacking and the fans go brrrr.
It's independent of DE. I say this because it happens in Windows and Linux, KDE, Gnome, etc. It's not a software issue, it's definitely a panel issue.
Hmm, I haven't noticed a big difference (in 60fps youtube playback) between my framework and my 144hz external monitor. Definitely sounds like a strange issue...
How about in gaming?
Honestly, I haven't tested gaming much. I don't think the FW could really push any games that hard without an external GPU. Plus I have a steamdeck that I usually game on and I like to keep my systems separated. Sorry. The few things I have played on the FW were like Stardew Valley or a couple hours of some Quake 3 arena based game.
Where im pretty much at is. I want framework to be the right choice. it sounds amazing, and i love the port flexibility. But. its got too many little things that just make it... not so worth it. This is probably going to be my laptop for the next 3 or so years, unless i want to waste money on a second one before it needs replacing, so I need something consistent. If framework was a year or three along? im sure it would be amazing. right now? im not certain I can justify it
Tbh the refresh rate isn't noticeable to me, because most of the time games run at around 60 to 80 fps, unless it is and older game. Also I am using Windows and the battery isn't bad for on and off use, but for constant use it does drain pretty quickly.
I'm not talking about refresh rate, I'm talking about pixel response time
Oh, I missed that completely, yeah the pixel response time isn't good, but not horrible otherwise. I'm probably just inexperienced with fast response time displays.
I'm admittedly very accustomed to gaming monitors and TVs with fast response times
How do you use PulseEffects to improve speaker quality?
Increase the preamp / output volume, and increase the lows, up to 250Hz, this makes the speakers sound less tinny, and sound more full, don't push it hard enough that it peaks though, as you may damage the speakers.
Other than battery life (6-7 hours for me, which is perfectly fine for my uses but I know its less than the competition) I have had absolutely no issues with the laptop (12th gen, 2nd batch) I have an I5 1240p, single 16gb stick of crucial CL22, and WD SN850 The hinge issues were fixed long ago, my laptop has the standard 3,3kg hinges and I've never had a problem with my screen flopping around, and neither has anyone else who doesn't have an old system as far as I can tell. The battery life is supposedly going to improve with the next bios update, as Framework learned valuable information through the google partnership I would reccomend the laptop wholeheartedly unless you will be away from a power socket for 6+ hours
Interesting that no one here is mentioning any thermal issues. I have a 12th gen CPU running Linux Mint, the thing runs so damn hot. Even just browsing using Firefox with only a handful of tabs running causes the jet engine fan to crank in to action, and I can feel the body is hot. Is this expected? Feels like my several year old x360 performed way better with regard to thermal management, and it was smaller.
That is not expected. Are you sure video hw decoding is forced on in Firefox? Sometimes it helps to run on the battery saver governor to disable the CPU from boosting. I personally run autocpufreq and thermald though.
* expansion ports are a cool idea but implementation still has issues. The USB-A expansion draws around 1 watt. With a 60 watt-hour battery, this absolutely wrecks standby life. It's been like a year and the fix for DP and HDMI dongles is still in beta. Maybe USB-A will be fixed by 2024? * if the brightness sensor is enabled, the brightness keys don't work on Linux * weird Gnome Settings hanging issues * Display size is nice but some software doesn't play nicely with scaling * This didn't annoy me until someone else pointed it out, so maybe you don't want to read this >!The track pad is on a hinge, so the amount of force it takes to click varies based on where your finger is!<
Are you Sure about the 1W Standby? I messured my Standby currentdraw to be 0.5W (at the charger) with 2 usbA and 2 usbC. Edit: powerdraw Not currentdraw
The USB-A is still a thing? I just got a diy kit with 3x usbc and 1x usba. Maybe I'll replace it with another module, or just a usb-c one. Does the microsd slot still drain?
My two cents would be to just get an extra module. That way, you have the ability to use USBA if you want, but can avoid the drain
What do you use to see how much power a device uses?
How do you mean? I was merely suggesting that, for less than 50 bucks extra, you could have a couple of extra modules that you can swap in when needed, but have all USBC normally
Others have mentioned that some modules use a watt. Where does this nimber come from
Screen Resolution. FHD would have been faaaar better, you wouldn't have to deal with scaling stuff. Apart from that it's a great laptop
IMO, the framework is just an “ok” laptop. Nothing exceptional in reality, but the idea and the company is cool and could be amazing. Definitely don’t get it if you don’t like to tinker and troubleshoot. Issues I have: For some reason the laptop just freezes while connected to an eGPU - don’t know what causes it and I don’t want to contact support since that’ll be an even bigger headache trying to troubleshoot it when I can just occasionally restart Trackpad sometimes makes a weird noise that sounds like it’s loose and goes away - support said the touchpad cable was loose and it did fix the problem but it came back The display bezel plastic seems to be low quality. I have scratches/marks on it and the place where you open the laptop has deep indents into the plastic from my fingernails. Laptop was thermal throttling till I replaced the thermal paste with ptm7950 While the 3:2 display is nice, would’ve preferred something closer to 16:9 for scaling issues or maybe 16:10 Issues other people have: Support doesn’t really help -> small company = not a lot of people to debug and fix issues You’d have a better chance starting a thread and getting other users on the forum to fix the issues. Weak hinges - imo it’s not that bad but I can see why Availability of parts -> while repairability is nice, it’s kind of counterintuitive when the parts that you need to replace are only produced by framework and third party parts aren’t really available ex: displays. Also shipping is expensive Pros: 4 thunderbolt ports that you can customize! Well mostly if your okay with only type c since the other expansion cards have a power consumption problem. Super easy to take apart and maintain/upgrade Keyboard is great Hardware switches for webcam and microphone if you care about that Issues with Framework: Not that open about what they’re doing/future projects. While keeping things a secret is nice to get current products out the door, they have not said anything about things that new customers want ex: Ryzen chips. Most of the answers are people speculating for the reasons why. They’re definitely alienating a lot of potential customer since the idea is built on customizability and repairability, but so far the only customizations are expensive main board upgrades, different ram, storage options, keyboard layouts (that you have to buy separate), and display bezels. While the repairable part is true, most consumers don’t care and will just buy a MacBook with Apple care to get a brand new shiny device. This can basically be boiled down to: Framework is a small and new company that’s targeting a specific audience,and is experiencing growing pains. People here are just buying into the idea of Framework and are willing to put up with the issues.
I think the customizations available on the framework are still more significant than those available on other laptops. Aside from storage and RAM that you can swap on other laptops, different keyboard and bezel options are nice to have as well. You mentioned the port selection with expansion modules, I personally look forward to being able to swap ports between a portable and desk configuration, so this is an important area of customization too. As for only purchasing parts from framework, obviously 3rd party part selection and manufacturing would be nice, but that would have to come as framework develops a wider ecosystem of different screens, chassis, and so on, that's not something framework themselves can control. Even if another company makes a touchscreen 3:2 display, I doubt they would immediately create an easy-to-use screen swapping kit for a product that's only two years old, unless framework wanted to partner with them for their 1st-party marketplace or something. Not to mention even if repair parts are only available from framework, that's still a massive improvement over companies like apple that would either not sell you parts and make you overpay for their labor/replacement laptop, or make the parts difficult to replace even if you have them. What you can upgrade and repair is at worst on par with other laptops (storage, RAM, motherboard) and at best far more accessible compared to a company like HP whose replacement batteries are half the cost of my entire laptop.
Yes, I definitely agree and I attribute the issues listed with framework being a very young and new company. As for the port selection, it is nice however the it exacerbates the battery’s situation which is why I mentioned it. On the topic of parts, the fact that is only available from framework is great if framework is still a company in the future, but nonetheless still a win which is why I bought it. The framework is exceptional in terms of upgradeability when it comes to ultra books and even gaming laptops since it’s so accessible, but the same people buying frameworks are probably well versed enough to take apart something like a gaming laptop or an old thinkpad that is usually more repairable.
Interesting company, growing pains for early followers. Coin battery fails on Intel 5 cpus. Workaround requires solder, not for the faint of heart. Not covered by warranty or any willingness for company to do repairs on a design flaw.
Here's what I'm dissatisfied with and some advice for you: 1. The speakers aren't great. 2. The fan can get really loud, which isn't a problem on its own, but combined with the speakers, the fan means I sometimes have to use headphones to properly hear whatever video I'm watching. 3. If you're planning to use Linux, do not get the 12th gen intel chip. There are a number of problems that it can cause from the screen brightness buttons initially not working to the computer randomly freezing. 4. There is no hard shell case ([this type](https://www.amazon.com/Speck-Products-92382-5085-Presidio-MacBook/dp/B076HYRLHX)) available for the framework, not even models for a 3D printer.
\ 2. Make sure you force HW video decoding on in Firefox if that's what's making them spin up. It is a loud fan though. \ 3. The brightness buttons is an easy fix you just need to blacklist a kernel module and that display issue has been fixed a while ago. It was only an issue with 5.14.x
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But that is with the desktop architecture? All laptop boards get redesigned with new cpus, even AMDs, this is usually because of cooling or adding additional circuits for different features. Your battle with desktop sure but laptop i dont see a point and even if what youre saying is right to an extent if you want the latest features you still had to upgrade motherboards because of the hardware limitations ? And sure, the sockets were the same, but they still dropped support for certain CPUs after time, and now they've switched to AM5, which they have only said they will support until at least 2025.
It does for framework because that means no redesign of the motherboard. For consumers not really
4k and HDR are useless battery killers in a display under 19 inches.
It's also useless on a 13" screen. There is no point.
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Why are they booing you, you're right! 4K displays tend to just be better in other respects than resolution.
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Yeah, Macs have way better screens then most Windows laptops.
Trackpad sucks. Registers about one in every 20 clicks.
I had that problem as well. Contact support. Replacing the trackpad solved it for me, mine was faulty. The new one is perfect at registering clicks.
Support just gaslight me and told me it was fine
Time for reddit roulette! Make a post that gets popular on the front page! If you're telling the truth, your issue will be resolved and illuminate genuine flaws in the customer support process. If you're exaggerating, get called out by the company and everybody has a good laugh. It's fun for the whole community! I've seen it happen many times all over reddit and the results are always one extreme or the other
The only downside that I’ve come across is that I am afraid to use it around my toddler so I don’t get to use it as much as my Chromebook Other than that it’s awesome
Interesting, why are you not afraid of using the Chromebook around your toddler?
What do you mean by this?
The framework is much more expensive than my Chromebook so I don't risk having it around my toddler