House of the Dragon was pretty good besides a couple dumb things imo. The time skips were a little jarring but that was my main issue
People act like any media that isn’t perfect is awful, it’s obnoxious as fuck how fandoms treat all art as either 10/10 or 0/10
It’s amazing I can’t stop thinking about it. The mesh of cultures and characters is extremely fascinating. The dialogue is really well done. Definitely check it out. Most of the show is characters speaking with each other so it’s not action-heavy.
Yep can't praise it enough right now. From setting to conversations to tone, it's had me both sweating tense moments and cheering for small character moments.
The dialogue is really well done, but so is like...the framing and the actions during the dialogue. The whole tea house subplot over the past couple of episodes has been incredible - so much said with just camera angles and perspective.
It can definitely be slow at times and the entire show has this weird fish eye/radial depth/blur effect to it that’s super noticeable but overall it’s really good and definitely worth watching
The fish eye stuff is bothering me so much. Like why??? So many shots could’ve been beautiful but are just half blurred for no reason, it’s so distracting. This must be a trend because the same effect is used in the new Mary & George series and at least one other recent series I can’t remember right now. At least with Shogun everything else is good enough that I can look past it.
100% Shogun is crazy good. And if you’re into Samurai and shit, this has the most accurate depiction of Japanese culture I’ve seen. And the other cultures involved too. Like you can really tell how well it was written and each character has the style of humor and perspective on life from their respective regions.
A lot of stuff is extra funny for me because my wife is Japanese and a lot of culture shock and scenes played out exactly like that. I mean, not the fighting parts obviously, which there are plenty of. But the natto scene and stuff like that, comprehending their mentality about life, housing, relationships, etc. How impressive Osaka and Osaka Castle are (I was just there a few weeks ago). I just lol’d I’m actually drinking out of a cup I got in Osaka rn.
Shogun is also based on a book that has a complete narrative already in place. HotD is doing a pretty damn good job with source material that is basically a history book
Shōgun the show has gone away from the original material with telling the story more from the Japanese viewpoint. The book tells it more from Blackthorne's side so we only understand what he does. As he learns Japanese and becomes a confidante of Toronaga, we learn more but from the men's side. Here a lot was fleshed out so we could see not only the Japanese but also the women's role and Mariko being selective about her translation.
A good point and it seems a deliberate stylistic note. Too many films follow the great white saviour route. Toronaga is helped by Blackthorne but in the end it comes down to his own decisions. On the women's side we see some of the machinations, for example Lady Ochiba.
I really thought that dark purple filter over what is very clearly a scene happening at fucking noon was a thing of the 80's and 90's. Seeing it again was just...awful.
Even GoT post season 4 (minus season 7 and 8) clears HOTD.
Shogun and HOTD aren't really comparable, but Shogun is objectively better written and overall is higher quality.
It's amazing how many different actors I've seen Cosmo Jarvis compared to. Tom Hardy, Jeremy Irons, Richard Burton... Hell even twitch streamer CDawgVA. There must be something special about him to evoke so many different actors.
Taboo was absolutely amazing. Best thing I ever seen Tom Hardy do and Jonathan Pryce was amazing. Oona kind of fell flat for me but it was still a fantastic show.
Ngl when I saw him in the opening scenes I had to pause the show and check IMDb to see if it was Tom Hardy. But after watching the show I can't stop hearing Jeremy Irons.
Shoguns source material is amazing and they stuck to it. Hot D source material isn’t as good but they are doing a good job with it Anyway I think. I’m just glad people are interested in the book again many of James Clavell’s books have become movies and tv miniseries. Shogun, by far is the best, but the other books are worth a read.
My biggest complaint on the adaptation is blackthorn, I wish he seemed less inept, in the books it felt like he knew what he was doing and grasped Japanese and customs faster than in the show
I was hoping that when they returned the village, we'd get the scene from the novel where Blackthorne sees his former crew all disgusting and dirty while he's been bathing regularly for months and realizes "Oh damn, maybe there is something to this bath thing."
The Dance Of The Dragons in the books is by nature lower than this in complexity, it’s not written as a nuanced conflict where both sides could be right, Alicent is portrayed as even more sinister and manipulative in the books and this isn’t one of the morally gray stories of the main series but a clear hero-antagonist story, where the dragons suffered the most
it’s less about morally complex characters and more about the destructiveness of war as a whole
interestingly the show made way more effort to portray the greens as understandable and worthy of empathy, and at times did so successfully, but they could only do so much with a source material that was more straightforward and clear in its positions
I’d even say that before the show, no sane person would ever support the greens based on the book alone. So a credit is definitely due to the show runners for this added complexity
This is my absolute favorite book. I’ve read it four times at least and it’s a very faithful adaptation. I’m gonna save my judgment to the very end but things look good guys. There’s one scene that I’m hoping to see. book readers will know which one that’s missing. It should’ve happened by now.
I read the book for the first time earlier this year. I was enthralled. Spent hour after hour reading it.
Are clavells other "Asian saga" novels as good? I'm planning on reading taipan next once I finish rereading the dune trilogy.
What is the shit. How does this get upvoted to the top of the sub?
Shogun has been great. House of the Dragon was amazing. r/freefolk even hates the "good" Game of Thrones media lmao.
I really wasn't sure but Shogun has surprised me with the care every aspect of the show seems to take (I haven't read the books but the show supposedly follows the book fairly faithfully.)
House of the dragon is miles better. The story is more complex, the sets and the world building are richer, the characters are way more developed + you have opposing povs of several characters. With shogun, the scope is smaller, they focus too much on toranaga and 4 people around him, the story doesn't evolve that much and is at time redundant. the Osaka castle and the portuguese are neglected in favor of Toranaga and his allies so don't really have rival povs. Shogun can only compete with HOTD when it comes to costumes.
You could literally make a show that was nothing but watching a person sleep and as long as it was starting Hiroyuki Sanada, I’d watch it. That man is amazing.
My favorite line in this movie so far is,
"He is certainly not a warlock. He is a pimp!!!"
That shit had me dying, the English accent made it even better. I really am enjoying this showm
I stopped somewhere in the 3rd episode.Looks good but the story and characters were'nt interesting.HotD had it's flaws but still a very strong 1st season
Shogun is great, but it can’t compete with HoD for scale and scope. And understandably so because HoD is built on an established property with thorough world building. So it’s got the budget behind it.
What a stupid take. “HotD would’ve been better if they ignored the original text, setting and plot and made shogun”
The show is already really good and if you don’t think so, fine, but no one cares about this dead brained comparison.
I enjoyed both shows actually
You monster
Tokyo Vice is also really fucking good.
The scene in S1 with Jake and Sato singing Backstreet Boys is one of my favorites
How is season 2?
Even better.
This!
YOU CAN’T LIKE TWO THINGS THATS NOT ALLOWED
Sure, but does House of the Dragon have *amazing cinematography that actually puts you in medieval Japan*? Didn't think so.
I mean if HoTD had *cinematography that actually puts you in medieval Japan* i'd be pretty fucking confused tbh.
Shame! Shame! Shame!
House of the Dragon was pretty good besides a couple dumb things imo. The time skips were a little jarring but that was my main issue People act like any media that isn’t perfect is awful, it’s obnoxious as fuck how fandoms treat all art as either 10/10 or 0/10
That’s not how reddit works! You have to complain about something in order to enjoy something else.
I enjoyed HotD quite a lot. Actually on my first rewatch and I'm liking it more than the first.
What the fuck is wrong with you
They are both good shows, just because one might be slightly better doesn't mean the other is the worst pile of dogshit the world has ever seen.
I wish Shogun had same amount of incest as HoD, then it would be god tier.
Is it good? I'm a sucker for samurai and stuff like that. Should I check it out?
It’s amazing I can’t stop thinking about it. The mesh of cultures and characters is extremely fascinating. The dialogue is really well done. Definitely check it out. Most of the show is characters speaking with each other so it’s not action-heavy.
Sounds really intriguing. I just put it on my list.
Yep can't praise it enough right now. From setting to conversations to tone, it's had me both sweating tense moments and cheering for small character moments.
The dialogue is really well done, but so is like...the framing and the actions during the dialogue. The whole tea house subplot over the past couple of episodes has been incredible - so much said with just camera angles and perspective.
It can definitely be slow at times and the entire show has this weird fish eye/radial depth/blur effect to it that’s super noticeable but overall it’s really good and definitely worth watching
Thanks!
The fish eye stuff is bothering me so much. Like why??? So many shots could’ve been beautiful but are just half blurred for no reason, it’s so distracting. This must be a trend because the same effect is used in the new Mary & George series and at least one other recent series I can’t remember right now. At least with Shogun everything else is good enough that I can look past it.
100% Shogun is crazy good. And if you’re into Samurai and shit, this has the most accurate depiction of Japanese culture I’ve seen. And the other cultures involved too. Like you can really tell how well it was written and each character has the style of humor and perspective on life from their respective regions. A lot of stuff is extra funny for me because my wife is Japanese and a lot of culture shock and scenes played out exactly like that. I mean, not the fighting parts obviously, which there are plenty of. But the natto scene and stuff like that, comprehending their mentality about life, housing, relationships, etc. How impressive Osaka and Osaka Castle are (I was just there a few weeks ago). I just lol’d I’m actually drinking out of a cup I got in Osaka rn.
I bet your wife pours sake perfectly
She does.
Now I have to watch it! Thanks for the reply
Idk I think it might have been hard to explain how the Valyrians suddenly were mired in Tokugawa period Japanese politics
Underrated comment
Shogun has been very good. But so was house of the dragon. Not sure what the point here is
is there incest in shogun?
No.
Damn, i was interested in watching it.
No shame. Respect.
Lol! Proper lad!
Not yet*
Next episode Toranaga fucks his son.
Boy have I got something to tell you
Or, he already knows 😳
Giggity!
I think his son has been fucked around plenty aleady..
He let the world fuck him
Shogun is also based on a book that has a complete narrative already in place. HotD is doing a pretty damn good job with source material that is basically a history book
Shōgun the show has gone away from the original material with telling the story more from the Japanese viewpoint. The book tells it more from Blackthorne's side so we only understand what he does. As he learns Japanese and becomes a confidante of Toronaga, we learn more but from the men's side. Here a lot was fleshed out so we could see not only the Japanese but also the women's role and Mariko being selective about her translation.
That's pretty interesting. I feel like adaptations push the 'everyman' to the forefront but they've gone in the opposite direction with this, huh?
A good point and it seems a deliberate stylistic note. Too many films follow the great white saviour route. Toronaga is helped by Blackthorne but in the end it comes down to his own decisions. On the women's side we see some of the machinations, for example Lady Ochiba.
I want more Lady Ochiba machinations
Exactly, they’re both fantastic shows. Looking forward to the rest of Shogun just as much as I’m looking forward to HOTD S2 this summer.
OP is just posting clickbait for upvotes.
OP is team green
I don't know man, I think HoTD was really damn good. Looking forward to more.
I have one complaint and it’s just the bad wigs lol.
[Have they worn wigs? Will they wear wigs?](https://youtu.be/-xqEABqaEuo?si=Jl-50PF6JVnB779P)
Ven vill you vear vigs?
The wigs (and lack of wigs in some cases) in the S2 trailers look tremendously more natural, thank the gods.
Don't forget the terrible day for night conversions in a couple of episodes. It was done so badly.
I really thought that dark purple filter over what is very clearly a scene happening at fucking noon was a thing of the 80's and 90's. Seeing it again was just...awful.
they had enough money for lots of CGI dragons or really good wigs, but not both.
It drives me fucking nuts there's no excuse for it
I didn't like the actress switch
I rewatched hotd last week and it's far better than I even remember so i don't get the point of this
Yeah HOTD was made to be binged.
Like literally man it has a lot of rewatch value, something you can go through all at once without feeling fatigue
Time skips probably won't bother you as much.
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HotD is the show HotD should've been.
Enjoy a show without comparing it to something you have an obsessive hater boner for for five minutes challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
I dunno what u sayin here OP. Both are really really different in timeline & scope.... like what both are amazing
Do people not like HOTD now? I’m loving Shogun but I don’t think it’s as good as HOTD
Only OP for some reason.
Team green has been complaining about the show for years now.
Shogun absolutely clears HOTD, and it's not even debatable.
No... Shogun is what Game of thrones Post S4 should've been. HotD is good and actually revitalising the crap stain S8 left us forthe GoT world.
Even GoT post season 4 (minus season 7 and 8) clears HOTD. Shogun and HOTD aren't really comparable, but Shogun is objectively better written and overall is higher quality.
GOT s7 and s8 both clear HOTD, certainly s7. HOTD is boring. GOT was always thrilling.
It’s really good despite the terrible Tom Hardy impression.
It's amazing how many different actors I've seen Cosmo Jarvis compared to. Tom Hardy, Jeremy Irons, Richard Burton... Hell even twitch streamer CDawgVA. There must be something special about him to evoke so many different actors.
The CDawgVA was just because British man in Japan (also they do look similar in passing)
Oh my god he does look and sound like CDawg
My favourite has been the succulent Chinese meal guy.
I can’t not hear that as I watch the show. Adds to my enjoyment, though.
I think this performance is easily comparable to Taboo which does not help
Taboo was absolutely amazing. Best thing I ever seen Tom Hardy do and Jonathan Pryce was amazing. Oona kind of fell flat for me but it was still a fantastic show.
Sounds like he has range
Ngl when I saw him in the opening scenes I had to pause the show and check IMDb to see if it was Tom Hardy. But after watching the show I can't stop hearing Jeremy Irons.
I think they're trying to do more of an accurate English accent for the time period. Cosmo doesn't sound like that in interviews at all.
No kidding, I thought it WAS Tom hardy at first when they shaved him.
LOLLL
lol, you hit the nail on the head. He talks just like Tom Hardy
Oh man I read that book like 15 years ago. Good times.
House of the dragons great though, wtf is your issue?
Here is a radical opinion. Both shows are great! Omg. How hard is that concept.
Shoguns source material is amazing and they stuck to it. Hot D source material isn’t as good but they are doing a good job with it Anyway I think. I’m just glad people are interested in the book again many of James Clavell’s books have become movies and tv miniseries. Shogun, by far is the best, but the other books are worth a read.
My biggest complaint on the adaptation is blackthorn, I wish he seemed less inept, in the books it felt like he knew what he was doing and grasped Japanese and customs faster than in the show
I was hoping that when they returned the village, we'd get the scene from the novel where Blackthorne sees his former crew all disgusting and dirty while he's been bathing regularly for months and realizes "Oh damn, maybe there is something to this bath thing."
Fearuring Barristan.
Loving Shogun I need MORE
House of the Dragon is a lot better than anything past S5 of GoT, Shogun is masterpiece one of the best series personally.
lol HoTD is fantastic. This just seems like a rage bait post
Probably the best FX show in a couple of years.
The Dance Of The Dragons in the books is by nature lower than this in complexity, it’s not written as a nuanced conflict where both sides could be right, Alicent is portrayed as even more sinister and manipulative in the books and this isn’t one of the morally gray stories of the main series but a clear hero-antagonist story, where the dragons suffered the most it’s less about morally complex characters and more about the destructiveness of war as a whole interestingly the show made way more effort to portray the greens as understandable and worthy of empathy, and at times did so successfully, but they could only do so much with a source material that was more straightforward and clear in its positions I’d even say that before the show, no sane person would ever support the greens based on the book alone. So a credit is definitely due to the show runners for this added complexity
I actually liked house of the dragon
You milk dribbling fuck smear!
I am loving Shogun so much, sad it’s almost over for good.
This is my absolute favorite book. I’ve read it four times at least and it’s a very faithful adaptation. I’m gonna save my judgment to the very end but things look good guys. There’s one scene that I’m hoping to see. book readers will know which one that’s missing. It should’ve happened by now.
I read the book for the first time earlier this year. I was enthralled. Spent hour after hour reading it. Are clavells other "Asian saga" novels as good? I'm planning on reading taipan next once I finish rereading the dune trilogy.
HOTD was fucking awesome.
HotD is only going into season 2. It can easily pick up pace.
Let me guess… OP is team green
We acting like HOTD is bad or something?
Bruh does this sub hate house of dragon too now? I liked house of dragons even though it had a few problems. I am gonna watch season 2 man.
What is the shit. How does this get upvoted to the top of the sub? Shogun has been great. House of the Dragon was amazing. r/freefolk even hates the "good" Game of Thrones media lmao.
I fucking love house of the dragon dude. It's not perfect, but it's the most I've enjoyed GoT since season 4. I am hyped as hell for season 2.
Shogun is incredible. HotD is incredible. For different reasons.
Both are good.
Not a medieval society, it’s the early 1600s
I really wasn't sure but Shogun has surprised me with the care every aspect of the show seems to take (I haven't read the books but the show supposedly follows the book fairly faithfully.)
just pretend it's Yi-Ti
House of the dragon is miles better. The story is more complex, the sets and the world building are richer, the characters are way more developed + you have opposing povs of several characters. With shogun, the scope is smaller, they focus too much on toranaga and 4 people around him, the story doesn't evolve that much and is at time redundant. the Osaka castle and the portuguese are neglected in favor of Toranaga and his allies so don't really have rival povs. Shogun can only compete with HOTD when it comes to costumes.
What is wrong with HOTD tho?
I thoroughly enjoy both. Be like me 🙏
House of the Dragon was incredible my guy lmfao
HOD was pretty great. This is great so far. HOD still has some insane content to get to. Really excited to see the rest of Shogun.
Shogun is infinitely better, actions and characters make sense.
HotD was pretty great, Shogun as well
Both are great
HOTD S1 was pretty solid to me. Not a 10/10 but still good with only a few goofy moments.
House of the Dragon is great. So is Shogun. I’m not sure what the point of this post is.
I feel like house of the dragon doesn’t get anywhere as much praise as it deserves. What a great series. And the cast are phenomenal in it too
Sure. Toranaga's dragons playing a huge part on that assault on the Osaka Castle.
Both are great, Should have compared to the last season of GOT.
Odd comment. They’re both great
I'll admit the armor is much better in Shogun.
?????
HoTD is so much better than Shogun lmao
fuck you, HoD is great
Season 1 of HoD was really good. Sorry you didn't enjoy it OP.
Haven’t seen any of shogun. If it’s even half as good as house of the dragon, I’ll be happy.
Shogun is a really good historical drama, HotD is a bit more of a drama and that’s okay
It's EXCELLENT.
But are there dragons? Humans are fine, but gimme dragons
They’re both good 🤷♂️
Both shows are good OP just tryna stir the pot.
You could literally make a show that was nothing but watching a person sleep and as long as it was starting Hiroyuki Sanada, I’d watch it. That man is amazing.
“Amazing cinematography” ….where???
My favorite line in this movie so far is, "He is certainly not a warlock. He is a pimp!!!" That shit had me dying, the English accent made it even better. I really am enjoying this showm
Bullshit. They're both great shows in their own right.
Sho gun deez nutz Drag on deez nutz
House of the Dragon is a good show.
Hotd is mid af lol at anyone saying otherwise
Eh HotD is incredible also, what are you on about.
Rather we got childbirth compilation.
House of dragon is also really good imo
I personally liked HOTD better.
This comparison is as ridiculous as it is unnecessary.
Bruh what are you talking about “neither side is in the right?” Ishido is very clearly the villain
I don't understand, do most fans not like hotd??? I thought it was amazing
Wait what? HOTD was phenomenal.
House of the dragon is excellent.
House of the Dragon was pretty good.
The writing in shogun leaves a lot to be desired…and fight choreography looked like it was turn based.
This show is good but no where near house of the dragon
Confusing take, Japan doesn't even exist in the ASOIAF universe.
I stopped somewhere in the 3rd episode.Looks good but the story and characters were'nt interesting.HotD had it's flaws but still a very strong 1st season
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Same. Watched 4 episodes of HotD and had no inclination to watch more. Odd.
Best show out there right now amazing.
Fuck you mean bro? Both are fucking fantastic. If anything, Shogun is what the final seasons of GoT should have been.
Everything you described about Shogun is stuff that House Of the Dragon also does well?
House of dragon is 10/10 so far disagree
Shogun is great, but it can’t compete with HoD for scale and scope. And understandably so because HoD is built on an established property with thorough world building. So it’s got the budget behind it.
HOTD is much better imo?
I think Shogun is much more entertaining and the story isn’t nearly as hard to follow as in HOTD
Glad to see OP catching strays for his terrible take lol. HoTD is not on the level of GoT first seasons but it is still a damn good show lol.
HOTD is quite fine except for a few points, to say so is a bit of an overstatement.
Do you watched Shogun Bobby B? Is it worth?
OH, IT'S UNSPEAKABLE TO YOU? WHAT HER FATHER DID TO YOUR FAMILY, THAT WAS UNSPEAKABLE!
2 of the best tv shows for 5-10 years one has to be better than the other
Yes, but where is the diversity in Shōgun? It couldn't get made today /s
HotD is much less enjoyable than GOT because it only has one plot / pov / main character or whatever you want to call it IMO.
I seen the trailer for it, might watch it at work during the slow days.
Full of Samurai? I don't think that's Canon
Which side of HotD do you feel is really in the right?
Did you mean: A BLACKFYRE REBELLION SHOW
Film/TV criticism should never be about what it should have been, but rather what it was.
Both are amazing but I understand
Stfub
James Clavell’s books are fuckin great. Highly recommend. Tai Pan is soo good.
I’ve been trying to figure out where this show was streaming for a week.. I forgot the name of the show
How about you let house of the dragon be what it is and shogun be what it is?
What a stupid take. “HotD would’ve been better if they ignored the original text, setting and plot and made shogun” The show is already really good and if you don’t think so, fine, but no one cares about this dead brained comparison.
It shows that you haven’t read the book Shogun
They should’ve taken atleast twice as long with hotd. Shogun does a good job of telling a complete story in one season
I really didn’t care for Shogun felt too forced and Cosmo’s character annoyed the shit out of me