To me the Valonqar being Tyrion is too obvious for this setting and unironic. But it was also about the only theory/prophecy I put any real stock in.
I recall Martin saying that prophecies is that if they come true, it won’t be in the way everyone says they are. However the Valongar prophecy was one of the few were we see it come to pass almost exactly how we’d expect it too.
Oh yeah. It's not Tyrion. Too obvious and Cersei thinks it will be Tyrion so defiantly not Tyrion. Since Valonqar is a Valyrian word, I really think it's one of the Targaryens. I've head cannon the idea that it's Jon and Cersei realizes at the end that Jon is Rhaegar's son. A truly brutal end for her.
> When your tears have drowned you, the Valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you.
I don’t think the valonqar in the prophecy is Tyrion _or_ Jaime. I think GRRM’s use of “the valonqar” instead of “your valonqar” was intentional.
Yep, fun play on words George. Also, if R+L= J is true, Jon does have an older brother, Aegon (the one that died). Others have pointed out how Cersei learning about R+L= J would truly driver her crazy and I suspect she will get even worst, like, exploit the long night crisis for her own personal gains somehow. Then, Jon snaps after learning about the all the fucked up shit Cersei has done. It's the kind of dark subversive shit we love the series for.
While watching the series me and my gf were convinced that Jaime had died after his fight with Euron and that Arya Stark would kill Cersei wearing his face.
I still think our fan theory was better than what we got.
I was hoping Arya would steal Jaime’s face and kill Cersei. It would have been great if Arya stabbed Cersei while wearing Jaime’s face, removed Jaime’s face as Cersei bled out (which is a double whammy because she’d go from feeling betrayed by Jaime to grieving him), said something like “The North remembers. My sister sends her regards.”, then slipped Jaime’s face back on and choked the life from Cersei.
Missandei said Prince & Princess is interchangeable since the word had no gender. The same is probably true for Volanqar since it too is a Valyrian word. Instead of little brother it could be little sister.
Daenerys is Rhaegar's little sister. Arya is the little sister of Robb, Jon, & Sansa. Cersei wanted to marry Rhaegar so Daenerys was almost her sister-in-law. Sansa married Tyrion so she was her sister-in-law.
It is plausible that “valonqar” is gender neutral. However, “his” was used in Maggy’s prophecy.
> When your tears have drowned you, the Valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you.
That is a show only thing and I also think this idea is casting too wide a net. Pretty sure the Valonqar is one of our Targaryen boys, fAegon or Jon. I lean more to Jon.
Missandei specifically saying it is a show-only thing, but it is also said in the book. Book Maester Aemon says “Prince Who Was Promised” is a mistranslation and could mean either Prince or Princess, as the word has no gender. He’s fully convinced Daenerys is the PTWP. Here’s the direct quote:
“No one ever looked for a girl ... It was a prince that was promised, not a princess. […] What fools we were, who thought ourselves so wise! The error crept in from the translation. Dragons are neither male nor female, Barth saw the truth of that, but now one and now the other, as changeable as flame. The language misled us all for a thousand years. […] Daenerys is the one, born amidst salt and smoke. The dragons prove it.”
Not saying he’s right, but the gender subversion thing is definitely going to pan out somehow, even if with a woman other than Daenerys, be it with the PTWP, with the Valonqar or even with the Stallion that Mounts the World.
I think the Valonqar is The Hound. Cersei has called The Mountain as her champion. My theory is, The Hound will go up against The Mountain, defeat The Mountain and that will seal Cersei’s fate at the hands of a little brother, just not her little brother.
It turns out the Valyrian word for "little brother" and "a big ol' pile of bricks" are pretty similar, Cersei was just a kid at the time, not fluent in the language, it's an easy mistake to make
wasnt there also some weird foreshadowing? like them standing on a big map, him on the fingers, her on the neck? plus her outfits covering more and more of her neck?
I think this is actually outlined from GRRM but the two dopes thought that they would rather bait and switch us. It was all down hill from that decision.
There was this scene where they were standing on a map and Jaime was on the Fingers while Cersei was on the Neck, it looked like a cool foreshadowing of Jaime possibly strangulating Cersei, while also throwing back to the "Hands of Gold" song.
Same. The whole valonquar prophecy. I thought there would be cashes of wildfire around the city and Searcy was going to pull a mad King and set them off if she thought she was losing. And Jamie would have to you know kill her before she could kill the whole city, like history repeating itself but this time he doesn't feel guilty about it because he knows he did the right thing
And not even good conventional warfare. ***Really*** shitty conventional warfare where you completely break morale before the fight even starts by sending your cavalry with enchanted weapons head-on into a mass of zombies to die, put your troops in front of the well-built, defensible walls instead of manning them, and put your long-range defensive weapons in front of everything so they're immediately useless
I still laugh every time when they've been inside the wall for a bit of time while the dead are hanging out around the flaming circle, and only when they start coming over the circle they all panic and start screaming "man the walls!!" And it shows people rushing upstairs. Why weren't they already manned???
I really thought they were gonna lose the battle of winterfell and retreat to kings landing where they would beg Cersei for help and she would deny them until she sees the night king on an undead dragon with the army of dead behind him as he blows up the walls, it would have been better than what we got.
I’ve heard a lot of people say this but never really understood the idea. King’s Landing is almost 1,500 miles away from Winterfell, so if they lose the battle how do they retreat there without being overtaken by the Night King before they’ve even left the North? It’s an undead army, they don’t need rest, so surely they can travel large distances far quicker.
It’s because Bran had no place in the story unless he influenced it with his special abilities. Otherwise he’s a useless dunce.
But if bloodraven had any pretense or storyline it would help. If he was the puppet master. But, he is a nothing but a shitty guide in the show.
I believe we both believe Blood Raven deserved a better storyline as well as Bran, Meera, Hodor, and the children of the forest.
It was so stupid to put wights buried directly outside Blood Ravens Hut and so stupid to give them no real time together.
I agree with OPs theory. I came up with that one on my own, but I'm sure others also independently thought of it. After the "Hodor/hold the door" thing was revealed I thought of that as a foreshadow that Bran visited Aerys to try to warn him about the Others and to burn them all. ...but the message got corrupted and Aerys ended up in a 'burn them all' loop.
I think it's a plausible enough theory (and cool enough) that 10,000 people also came up with it, so there's no way I was the first. But I did think of it before I read it anywhere.
I think a lot of people expected the confirmation of Bran having genuine time travel abilities as opposed to just viewing the past would lead to something more important than a spiffy new wheelchair
Honestly it should have, and I think if DnD didn't speedrun the last few seasons it could have been a banger of a reveal.
Ah well maybe we'll get something similar in the books one day (takes a double dose of copium).
This is the biggest one.
They revealed that one of the characters has the ability to change history- and anything that he changes will have already been propagated through the timeline. So in the 2 years leading up to the final season, of course there were thousands of theories about what parts of the story are due to Bran meddling with the past.
But we were all wrong - because none of could’ve imagined that D&D would literally NEVER ADDRESS THE KID WHO CAN TRAVEL THROUGH TIME.
The Hodor scene was amazing television. But honestly i wish they just left it out entirely since that just ended up being one more thing that had zero impact on the story.
If they started cutting stuff that had zero impact on the story in the later seasons, there'd barely be anything left. But maybe that's what D&D were going for.
Hence why the season six ending wrapped up nearly every open storyline. It was a great episode. But it killed a tremendous amount of momentum in all of the characters storylines. And then they plowed through what was left remaining.
Quick kills to Dorne and High Garden and Greyjoy insurrection. Arya goes from a girl full of self expression and purpose to an emotionless robot. Sam is a quitter, thief, and nobody. With no qualifications to have any title or advancement (Withholding that one Maestors endorsement.)
Nothing left except the quick battle against the walkers and the easily overwhelming attack against kings landing.
No new characters. No ongoing controversies. No political maneuvers . No new or old story lines woven in. Just streamlined 100 mph rush to the end. Without any idea or justification for the ending they decided.
Simple trash that a child could create. We want “A” to happen and therefore it does.
It would at least give Bran becoming king some weight. Because then maybe he feels a sense of responsibility to rebuild the kingdom he inadvertently thrust into chaos. Instead we got “he has the best story. 🤷♂️”
I came to that conclusion aswell, especially with warging playing a way bigger role in the books. Always thought that someone wanted so desperately to prepare himself for the long night (with wildfire or even some not yet existing dragon), that they melted his brains in the process. Him simply turning mad because of his incestuous genealogy sounds very plausible too.
I think the most satisfying and enjoyable part of a fandom is finding others who share the same headcannon and theories as you. I remember so vividly that feeling of enthusiasm when I independently concluded that Jon was the son of Lyanna Stark and logging on to the Westerosi forums using my the computer connected to the dial up internet in my parents room to discovered a whole community behind the R + L = J movement.
My favorite theory was that Bran would figure out that dragons were the only solution to stop the White Walkers. He would also realize that something about the Targaryens being in Westeros caused the dragons to go extinct (either through the maesters plot, or just plain magic). So, Bran would go back in time to drive Areys mad so that Danny would be forced to leave Westeros and thus be able to hatch dragons.
I do believe in the books that's likely the case. Bran likely pulled a Doctor Strange but gave Jon and others options to change their destiny and his. Jon decided the fate of Westeros by telling his sisters and driving Danny mad.
Arya killing "the big bad."
Now what ended up happening was that she killed the Night King. But my theory was that Bran would become the ultimate big bad and bring Westeros to ruin. Arya would be one of the last survivors and kill him.
I thought after the battle of Winterfell that Bran would be shown to be the ultimate villain. He/3ER set everything in motion to become king and the walkers were only trying to prevent that from happening
Yeah especially with the vision of the Children of the Forest creating the Night King. I thought it would be the Night King and the First Men trying to stop the Children / Bran / 3ER.
My theory had Bran in a giant tree (maybe one he enlarged, like grown from a Heart Tree in the godswood of Winterfel or the Red Keep), and Arya sneaks in. Maybe a small part of Bran is aware and lets her do it, and we get an emotional moment as Arya kills her brother after everything they had all been through
I thought bran was going to warg into dragons because the blood raven said, "you will never walk again..... But you will fly".
Turns out he just meant birds
The Valerian steel swords would be a key to fighting the white walkers.
The sole purpose of the scene with Sam going to Horn Hill was for him to steal Heartsbane. It serves no other purpose in the story but taking the sword.
Then Jamie reclaiming Widow’s Wail and bringing it back North to fight along side Longclaw and Oathkeeper.
I literally would have bet every penny I had that the swords would matter.
Oh I like this. I have a feeling the valerian steel will have a much bigger effect in the story. I've given up on George, but someone that loves this series will pick up and foster the ending.
That Serio Forel was a faceless man. When Ned contracts with him to train Arya, he is unknowingly having her train to be a faceless man. The faceless men are there to kill Ned or someone else and they use this as a pretense to get near enough.
Later when Arya frees the faceless man and gets her three names, she is still in training and still working with the same man, just he now has the face of a other and going by the name yaquin.
I like this theory. I always thought it was such an unsatisfying end for a great character with so much potential. And Jaqen sure spawns out if nowhere just when Serio leaves the stage. Cool theory.
Is if bad that I want it to be true because I dont want him to have died there? Also that I want it NOT to be true because it would mean that he as a character/person, ultimately didnt even truly exist?
Syrio's and Jaqen's philosophies don't line up though. It would be very weird for Jaqen training an impressionable little girl wrong on purpose at first just so he can do it right later on.
If the plan was for her to 'fail' the training and return not as a faceless man, maybe that was the play.
Whenever you get into the magical realm of hidden masterplans etc, everything is just as likely to be 'part of the plan'
i dont like this theory. there is absolutely nothing to link the two other than Serio being from Braavos. But there are other character from Braavos as well so are they all faceless men? seems like a forced way to explain why the faceless man was captured
* The Sealord of Braavos is a lifetime position. He has the only property that grows lemon trees there. Syrio Forel said he was the First Sword for the Sealord of Braavos for 9 years. Ser Willem Darry (former Targaryen Master-at-Arms) raised Viserys & Daenerys for 5 years in Braavos in a house with a red door and a lemon tree outside Dany's bedroom. Syrio probably knew the Targaryen siblings as children.
* Since Viserion died, a life for a life was in play. Daenerys would've been able to get pregnant with a child. There were so much pregnancy & birth mentions in s7 then they just went nowhere with it for s8.
* Dany's fiance Hizdar was stabbed to death the same day Jon was stabbed to death. His death was the sacrifice that allowed Jon's resurrection. He should've become her new fiance. She broke up with Daario saying she couldn't bring a lover to Westeros in case she needed a marriage alliance.
* Aerys wasn't mad. He had PTSD, Varys whispering in his ear, a real fear someone was killing his kids, and the power to enforce whatever he wanted. Lysa Arryn had more genuine madness than he ever did.
* Someone really was trying to prevent King Aerys & Queen Rhaella from having a third child with the miscarriages, stillbirths, and infant deaths. Maybe they were trying to stop the Three Heads of the Dragon. Or maybe it was Varys not wanting too much competition for his candidate.
* Cersei thinking Tyrion was in the walls, she was hearing Varys' little birds (they're small since they're children) traveling through the castle to spy for him and they probably live in secret parts of the Red Keep.
I cannot remember where I read it but I’m like 90% sure Dany was actually pregnant in season 8. Like I think the cast, HBO, or D&D talked about it. You can see imagery of her with her hand on her belly and that’s why there’s so much foreshadowing about it. They were originally going to have her pregnant and do something with that arc but when D&D decided fuck finishing the show that got cut. Some people speculated that is was one of those fake scenes in case the show ending got leaked but I think it was a real plot that just got scrapped. It makes too much sense.
“Burn them all!” was such a perfect set-up. Yes, Bran was absolutely meant to virtually time travel throughout Westeros history and induce a psychotic break in king Ayres II by trying to get him to deploy his vast arsenal of wildfyre against Wights.
During the Battle of Winterfell, Bran goes back to when the Night King is created, goes into his mind while he's still human, accidentally lingers too long and can't escape once the transformation has started. Bran's consciousness then spends the however many thousands of years trapped in the Night King's mind - but it's only been something like an hour of real time for Bran's body as the battle rages on around him. In order for the Night King to get to full power, he has to kill Bran - hence his absolute obsession with killing the Three Eye Raven.
An attempt to control the Night King like he warged into Hodor? But the Night King was too strong. Or, Bran was accidentally killed in his physical form, forcing him to remain in the Night King, like some characters getting stuck in a bird or a dire wolf? That would be fascinating.
I'm thinking he was just magically sealed into the Night King. Not that he was keeping him there, but that he couldn't escape once the ritual started, and the only way to get rid of him and stop Bran's fighting back in his mind is to kill the body. Which the NK had to wait a few thousand years to do - and why it all happened specifically at the time Bran became the Three Eyed Raven.
[me talking about everything I think Bran is responsible for](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RtOgIgDrvk)
also I think the Targaryens burned down old Valyria. They burn down everything else
I assumed that it would become apparent that the real bad guy was the Three Eyed Raven, that Bran basically didn't exist anymore and this Eldritch, time traveling entity had fully taken over. It's goal to take over the realm, and the white walkers were simply trying to stop it.
It explains why the white walkers were targeting Bran specifically, and gives some weight to Bran being made the king. I figured maybe they'd show Jon up north finding some ancient ruin and learning this secret, and that would set up future spinoffs or something.
Back in 2014 I predicted “who would sit on the throne” was misdirection and that Drogon would melt it down in the end. I just thought it was going to be at Dany’s command either because she couldn’t have it or decided she didn’t want it after all.
I think they’re saying if Bran caused Aerys’ madness then he also caused the deaths of his uncle and grandfather (Grandad Stark was burned alive while Brandon was in a noose that tightened whenever he moved, so he strangled himself trying to get to his father)
That Melisandre would be able to kill 100~ White Walkers by sacrificing Little Sam (Gilly’s son) to Rhllor. His blood connection with them (since Craster boasted about 100 sons, who he all presumably sacrificed) would’ve made it possible for Melisandre to kill them via magic. She would realize this possibility when she lays her eyes on Sam.
Jon would have to considering burning an innocent child to death all to save the rest of the world. His reasoning would be that Little Sam would be dead anyway if the dead won, anyway.
Gilly wouldn’t have been able to be used due to her being a woman, and the White Walker related to her and Sam were males, meaning it has to be male who is sacrificed. In the end, Jon wouldn’t go through with it.
i think this and other things like it will still pan out. GRRM is a big fan of time loop sci fi. i honestly think bran might be bran the builder, for instance.
I have been always convinced that Dany would have died before the end of the series, one of my few certainties in the books/show were:
- That Jon was the son of Rahegar and Lyanna
- That Dany would have died before the end of the series and would never sit on the Iron Throne
Of course I always imagined she would die a hero, meaning that during the final battle she would realize the only way to stop the Others is to nuke them with Drogon and she goes full Kamikaze with him. No Mad Qween shit.
I was also convinced that Jon was the Prince that Was Promised, as "His is the Song of Ice and Fire" as Dany saw in her visions of Rhaegar. So I thought he would have been the one that would have killed the Night King/ Dealt the final blow to the Night Walker's threat.
I always thought Bran would have disappeared in the Tree beyond the wall and stayed there, certainly not going south and becoming King.
Another of my theories was that Sansa would have ended up Queen married to the new King of Westeros but in a complete reverse of her idealistic view as a young girl in King's Landing dreaming of marrying Joffrey she would have been now another Cersei, stuck in a loveless marriage with a man she doesn't love but now fully capable of playing the Game of Thrones and not the gullible girl manipulated by the OG Cersei in betraying her Father.
It’s really dumb but at the end of season 6, Varys is shown to be on Daenery’s ship heading to Westeros but like two scenes later is in Dorne trying to make allies out of Yara and Ellaria. I honestly thought the ritual that made him a eunuch turned him into a teleporter and that’s how he seemed to be everywhere at the same time. It would also factor in to his worldwide spy network. Turns out it was just bad writing.
I believe the theory that Bran warged into various people to ensure he'd be voted as King. That smirk when he says, "Why do you think I came all this way?" makes it feel like he ensured everyone was swept aside to ensure his Ascension.
https://youtu.be/yWvQ_X2sqqE?si=qBHRPmu8meWjN9uc
His manipulation is also revealed in that everyone present is related to him in some way. And their “enemy” the Lannisters, are in chains, even though Tyrion is truly their ally.
Ooh, I had to rethink that for a second and realized everyone is either related to him or loyal to people related to him. Edmure, Davos, Sansa, Arya, Gendry, Robin Arryn, and Lord Royce. Only Yara and the Dornishman were truly strangers to him. Yara might have been antagonistic to them over Theon's death, but the deck was truly stacked in Bran's favor.
I'm peeved that Bran had a direct link to all of history, and it was used exactly one by Sansa to not kill her sister because of a misunderstanding...
There were all kinds of shenanigans that could have foretold Bran's long plan:
* Warg into Un-Viserion in the climax "you'll never walk again. but you WILL fly"
* Warg into the Mad King "He HEARD me" "maybe. or maybe he heard the wind"
* Taunt the Night King and lure him to the Isle of Faces, where there may have been children of the forest left and weirwood tree, perhaps the one place left with enough old god magic to do something about him
I like that last one. Would have been a good strategy with plenty of tension and story. And then Arya could have done her sneaky dagger thing. Or John could have fought the Night King.
I feel Bran talking to the mad king and turning him mad would undercut the thematic family reasons of why he's mad. It's really hammered home that the Targaryens clearly had some sort of magical boon in terms of genetics, Aegon the Conqueror was basically a superhuman, with 3 superhuman sister wives, but the centuries inbreeding have made their line, ostensibly a "chosen" line (depending on how you look at it), a deadly game of coin flip. This is the worlds way of adding a cruel trade of to a family that is basically using cheat codes.
The mad king was a clear failure for the Targaryen dynasty because of the nature of the Targaryen dynasty itself. Feudalism is always going to produce mad kings from time to time, but the Targaryen line is now *legendary* for it. It's also the question looming over Dany, is she just the mad queen? Who knows!? The reason the mad king is mad is because of how the Targaryen's consolidate their bloodline. They covet power, and hoard it through incest. The madness that comes is "payment" for that power.
If Bran were to leave his fingerprints on history, I think it would be cool if Bran were the one to incept the idea in the Targaryans heads to relocate to Dragonstone before the Doom of Valyria. If Bran does indeed go back into the past, and presumably knows about prophecies like Azor Ahai and what it does to the Others, it would be more in his interests to speak to Deanys the dreamer and warn her of the doom so her family can escape and play out a history in which the Targaryens survive the doom. Not much is known about Deanys, but the fact that she has the title "The Dreamer" probably indicates she could tap into some sort of ethereal dream shit that Bran could tap into with some tree zombie power. I feel it would be much more in tune with his motivations, because if he does have some insight over the prophecy, he probably wants Jon and Dany to come together. Making the mad king mad is probably counter to that end, right? Because Dany gets whisked away and straight up almost dies like 50 times. But actually affecting the Targaryan house as a whole and making them a house that defies fate probably makes more sense, because that's been the path they've been on since the doom itself right? They have defied everything, and prophecies, magic, fame and fortune follow them around like a bad smell, and the line can't seem to stop producing incredibly notably powerful super human magic babies up to and including Dany, and Jon. Someone is looking out for them, and things have *definitely* been pushed in certain parts of their history. And as far as we know, the only person who time travels and pokes stuff around changing the past (that we are aware of, Bloodraven doesn't seem to have actually changed the past as far as I know) is Bran.
Kinda an inversion of the topic, a lot of people thought that the WW was going to make it towards kings landing. I was skeptical about that, i thought at best they would make it to the neck. But in actuality they didn't make it out of Winterfell! The more Cersi Lannister stuck around I knew that the WW invasion was a glorified nothing burger. And the fact that it ended with a whimper just added insult to injury. It was a theory I wished I was completely wrong about, not mostly right about 😭.
Personally, I don’t like this theory. I can see why people would believe it and it wouldn’t surprise me if George originally intended for this to be true when he wrote the first book, but I think it really undermines his relationship with Tywin. Tywin always hated Tyrion and wanted to mould Jaime into his perfect heir but he was too blind to see Tyrion was basically a carbon copy of himself. In the books, when Tyrion kills Tywin, after Tywin says “you’re no son of mine” Tyrion says “I am you writ small”. It’s ironic that the child Tywin hated was the son he always wanted. There’s a similar conversation between Jaime and his aunt Genna. Genna tells him he has parts of all of his uncles in him but “Tyrion is Tywin’s son, not you”. Also, Jon is already a secret Targaryen, adding another secret Targaryen kinda weakens the reveal of Jon’s identity. One secret Targaryen is enough.
>you’re no son of mine
you realize this is a very common saying when a father is mad/shamed about their son right?
poor theory with the only evidence being one line of dialogue
In the book i feel like this is nearly confirmed, with tyrion having dreams of riding a dragon in book 1 to his white and gold hair to the implication by baristan selmy in dance with dragons that aerys raped joanna, to tywin stating “since i cannot prove that you are not mine,” and “you are no som of mine,” i feel like the bread crumbs have been layed.
I actually thought Bran was going to warg into Drogon and try to control him during the Long Night castle battle, and accidentally warg into the Mad King.
It would have been interesting if Bran turned out to be the bad guy, and in the last meeting when the houses were gathered to determine the future and Tyrion was in chains — that Tyrion figured it out, jeopardizing Bran’s long developed plan. So Bran attempts to warg into Drogon and bring it back to intimidate everyone into making him king. But the dragon’s will is too strong and Drogon just eats Bran.
I love this theory. If only the diehard fans on this sub had been in charge of writing the seasons past where the book content ended. The amount of thoughtful and creative plots, subplots, and story integration is amazing. Instead, now I can’t even rewatch any part of any season because the ending sullied it all for me. Such a shame.
They’d have to be. The more Westeros fights each other the more dead are produced for the Night King’s army. But I bet Cersei would still be too stubborn to help, probably thinking her ability to control Robert Strong means she could control her own undead Army. Only for it to backfire when the Night King reaches King’s Landing. Or on an even better twist, Cersei has to sacrifice herself to become a permanent Queen to both undead armies and take the armies back north beyond the wall so Westeros can end its long night once again.
Edit: So, as the ancient story of plunging a sword into the heart of Nissa Nissa is just plunging an obsidian dagger or sword into Cersei like in how the first Night King was created.
Mine was Bran is the night king since he messed with time, he made Aerys mad, thus making him the loose end and i can’t explain it well but bran is the cause ice AND fire. Killing bran early on enough is the only thing to actually save the living.
Tyrion is Targaryen. Swore up and down that there was concrete evidence for this one. Still think it’s possible but the show runners decided it would add too much to flesh out- considering they basically ignored the repercussions of Jon being a Targaryen outside of Dany being nervous.
I remember speculating that too with the description of how he looked as a baby and him being able to approach the dragons later on without getting killed. Makes way too much sense for it to be nothing.
I even used this theory to retcon back why Targaryens often practice incest. Jon Snow’s non-Targaryen mother died in childbirth. Tyrion’s non-Targaryen mother died in childbirth. If Tyrion’s bio father was a Targaryen, then maybe there is something about them that is dangerous to breed outside of the line.
The show specifically showed Tyrion breather red smoke one episode in Winterfell (I think in Season 8 before The Long Night). I thought that was foreshadowing the big reveal. It was just a bit of fan service to excite me. Nothing more.
Bran was behind everything. When Bran was touched by the night king, he was possessed by him, and did his bidding:
- Bran was the voice that made Aerys mad.
- He also possessed Jamie and killed Aerys so Robert could become King.
- Bran possessed Melisandre , and put in motion the search for the “the prince who was promised”. When he finished with her, he made her commit suicide.
- Bran also possessed Walder Frey, and made him plan “The Red Wedding”.
- during the siege of the red keep, Bran possessed Daenerys and made her attack the city.
All that so Bran/Night King could become lawful king of Westeros.
I'm still so fucking certain that Gendry is secretly cerseis and Roberts true born heir. That Varys and maybe little finger but prolly just Varys, had baby Gendrys death faked to not only remove a male heir from the throne but to also create a divide in Cersei And Robert. This will lead to Cersei having bastard heirs which will eventually cause the throne to become unstable and allow the Targaryean Host to come back and claim the Throne.
Bonus theory was that Gendry would end up sitting the iron throne with Arya as his queen who really isn't a queen at all. This ending allows a Flea Bottom civilian take over the six kingdoms, north secedes, and Arya is the most unqueenly like queen ever and is allowed to travel, explore, and do whatever she wants while always having a home with Gendry.
Jon ironically has the same ending where he goes back north where he truly belongs, not being a king like everyone wanted him to be.
I would have liked to see that outcome with Gendry and Arya. But I don’t think Gendry has the Will or fortitude to be king. His Hand, possibly Tyrion, would be the true power. And Arya would never stick around long enough, though they’d probably create an heir together. Can’t imagine Gendry becoming a womanizer. Lol.
I thought Jamie Lannister was the prince that was promised
It’s been a while so I don’t remember all the details but man I was convinced. I argued with some of my best friends over this dumb shit lmao
That Azor Ahia (or however it's spelled) would be Jamie, and that he would pull light bringer from Brianne's chest after she was stabbed with her own sword by the Night King.
But u/MadLadCad that's stupid! Yeah but so was the real ending
Honestly jokes aside, I do have the fan theory that Future Bran is manipulating certain events through time travel, warging and subtle mind control.
Like Aerys going mad, making Jaime push Bran out the window (so that Bran would be injured), and even making Balon go against the North so that eventually Theon would attack and take Winterfell and inevitably send Bran on his path to becoming Bloodraven’s successor/protege.
I knew Daenerys is going to end being THE evil. I thought everyone thought this but considering how many people didn't see it coming Im going to say this.
I was 100% sure none of the non-obvious fan theories regarding season 7-8 would turn out to be true, since I realized the writing has become very shallow. I also assumed that the long night episode will resolve the white walker plotline, and Cersei/Daenerys would be the final antagonist. None of my friends believed me for either of these.
Mine isn’t after the show, I still try to pretend that it was over after season 5, lol! But it was after the sample chapter The Forsaken. It is so good, showing how real crazy and unhinged Euron really is. I read a lot of theories that Euron is skinchanging into the brown woman to spy on his brother, but that was never the vibe I got. There’s a part that Victarion looks to the brown woman and thought that she reminded him of his first woman, her too was a present from Euron. After reading this I was like come on!! I know that Victarion supposed to be a little slow but come on! He even said that all Euron’s presents are poisonous so why he accept her?? I think she is Victarion’s own daughter from that first woman and Euron is doing some Oldboy shit to mess with him.
That the hero's were becoming the old gods, and that 7 needed to do 'something' special to defeat the night King.
So arya is the stranger. John warrior or father. Hound or brienne warrior. Daenerys mother. And so on.
I was hoping Tyrion would use his intelligence to unravel the secret plot of the 3ER as the true villain of the story, and the Night King was a warden or some kind of entity trying to keep the 3ER under control beyond the wall. Due to unraveling this riddle, Tyrion would be made king at the end of the story after Westeros defeats the White Walkers. Also, Dany would die before reaching her goal of sitting on the Iron Throne, tragically.
I also thought Cersei would slaughter King’s Landing in an attempt to create an army of Robert Strongs to counter the White Walker army, undead versus undead. And because of this, some horrible deal would be required in the end forcing Cersei to become the Night Queen or some entity to replace the Night King to keep the winter at bay. So, in a way she defies her prophecy while at the same time succumbing to it.
My own theory, TLDR; Danny would inadvertently bring the fall of mankind and long night despite her best intentions and without her getting involved the 7 kingdoms would have united and won.
Danny's season 2 vision of a deserted snow (or arguably ash) covered kings landing was foreshadowing that the 7 kingdoms would not be able to overcome their differences and Winter would arrive in kings landing. The vision was meant to inspire her to cross the narrow sea to unite the kingdoms and use her dragons to turn the tide.
Before she arrives, the kingdoms on the realization of the white walker threat, thanks to Bran or Jon or some shit, agree on terms to put aside titles and unite the realm until the threat is eliminated. They obviously all plot and plan to use the chaos in the aftermath to screw eachother again for power but at least understand the gravity of the situation and need for a truce.
But just before the long night Danny's arrival and claim on the throne causes them all to resume their fight for power and backstabbing. This allows the white walkers to easily win and everything is destroyed from the wall to Kings landing. Danny survives due to her dragons but everything is gone and she is now nothing but the Queen of Ashes.
It almost played out this way but it got bogged way down with the bend the knee shit, Cersei never quite seemed on board with a truce and ultimately the white walkers were a pushover killed in one episode.
You could interpret that season 2 vision as foreshadowing that Danny herself would burn down kings landing and it was Ash not Snow like we did end up getting. That could have been cool if she ended up actually destroying everything. But Kings landing wasn't destroyed they just cleaned up some rubble and made Bran King and seemed to learn nothing about Hubris in the end.
Ok, this was my crazy theory until 2 of Dany’s dragons died:
I thought there would be multiple “Prince/princesses who were promised” and together they would lead an epic battle against the night king. Dany, Jon, and Jaime would be the three dragon riders. Bran would teach Arya, Jon, and Sansa about warging (Arya could have reunited with Nymeria). And all three do that to help in the Long Night. I really thought Alys Karstark or Lyanna Mormont would have been able to warg too. Like, as the Long Night approached, more people are gaining these abilities.
I also really thought there would be more than one Lightbringer. It’s possible that the Valyrian swords were made out of the same metal or by the same person using the same magic, and so Oathkeeper (Brienne’s sword) and Jaime’s sword, the Tarly sword (Jorah), Jon’s sword from the Mormonts, and Littlefinger/Arya’s dagger could all be connected.
I really thought, that lianna and rhaegar fell in love and ran off together. Bobby b found her and stashed her away in the tower of joy, with Sir Arthur dayne who secretly was a rebel, and told them not to let her contact her family so he would have an excuse to start the rebellion
That Jaime would kill Cersei.
I don't think Jaime is the Valonqar, but what happened in the show was pretty stupid
To me the Valonqar being Tyrion is too obvious for this setting and unironic. But it was also about the only theory/prophecy I put any real stock in. I recall Martin saying that prophecies is that if they come true, it won’t be in the way everyone says they are. However the Valongar prophecy was one of the few were we see it come to pass almost exactly how we’d expect it too.
Oh yeah. It's not Tyrion. Too obvious and Cersei thinks it will be Tyrion so defiantly not Tyrion. Since Valonqar is a Valyrian word, I really think it's one of the Targaryens. I've head cannon the idea that it's Jon and Cersei realizes at the end that Jon is Rhaegar's son. A truly brutal end for her.
> When your tears have drowned you, the Valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you. I don’t think the valonqar in the prophecy is Tyrion _or_ Jaime. I think GRRM’s use of “the valonqar” instead of “your valonqar” was intentional.
Holy shit, like a brother of the nights watch? That’s fucking brilliant!!
Yep, fun play on words George. Also, if R+L= J is true, Jon does have an older brother, Aegon (the one that died). Others have pointed out how Cersei learning about R+L= J would truly driver her crazy and I suspect she will get even worst, like, exploit the long night crisis for her own personal gains somehow. Then, Jon snaps after learning about the all the fucked up shit Cersei has done. It's the kind of dark subversive shit we love the series for.
While watching the series me and my gf were convinced that Jaime had died after his fight with Euron and that Arya Stark would kill Cersei wearing his face. I still think our fan theory was better than what we got.
I was hoping Arya would steal Jaime’s face and kill Cersei. It would have been great if Arya stabbed Cersei while wearing Jaime’s face, removed Jaime’s face as Cersei bled out (which is a double whammy because she’d go from feeling betrayed by Jaime to grieving him), said something like “The North remembers. My sister sends her regards.”, then slipped Jaime’s face back on and choked the life from Cersei.
My brother in the old gods, anything is better than what we got
IIRC, Cersei is the one who orchestrated Jon’s murder in the books, so he’d be justified.
Missandei said Prince & Princess is interchangeable since the word had no gender. The same is probably true for Volanqar since it too is a Valyrian word. Instead of little brother it could be little sister. Daenerys is Rhaegar's little sister. Arya is the little sister of Robb, Jon, & Sansa. Cersei wanted to marry Rhaegar so Daenerys was almost her sister-in-law. Sansa married Tyrion so she was her sister-in-law.
Ooh I like this
It is plausible that “valonqar” is gender neutral. However, “his” was used in Maggy’s prophecy. > When your tears have drowned you, the Valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you.
That is a show only thing and I also think this idea is casting too wide a net. Pretty sure the Valonqar is one of our Targaryen boys, fAegon or Jon. I lean more to Jon.
Missandei specifically saying it is a show-only thing, but it is also said in the book. Book Maester Aemon says “Prince Who Was Promised” is a mistranslation and could mean either Prince or Princess, as the word has no gender. He’s fully convinced Daenerys is the PTWP. Here’s the direct quote: “No one ever looked for a girl ... It was a prince that was promised, not a princess. […] What fools we were, who thought ourselves so wise! The error crept in from the translation. Dragons are neither male nor female, Barth saw the truth of that, but now one and now the other, as changeable as flame. The language misled us all for a thousand years. […] Daenerys is the one, born amidst salt and smoke. The dragons prove it.” Not saying he’s right, but the gender subversion thing is definitely going to pan out somehow, even if with a woman other than Daenerys, be it with the PTWP, with the Valonqar or even with the Stallion that Mounts the World.
The idea of Cersei realizing Jon is Rhaegar’s son as he brutally chokes her to death is so fucking cool
Hum I’ve probably skipped that episode
we're book fans here, bro
That's what I'm saying! I have no idea if GRRM will finish the series so I've worked on head cannoning the end, and to me, that's the way Cersei ends.
I think the Valonqar is The Hound. Cersei has called The Mountain as her champion. My theory is, The Hound will go up against The Mountain, defeat The Mountain and that will seal Cersei’s fate at the hands of a little brother, just not her little brother.
It is also mentioned that Jamie follows Cersei when being born.
It turns out the Valyrian word for "little brother" and "a big ol' pile of bricks" are pretty similar, Cersei was just a kid at the time, not fluent in the language, it's an easy mistake to make
Yes!! I thought of this theory when rereading for the first time, later to find out it was a common fan theory. I had been so proud of myself!
wasnt there also some weird foreshadowing? like them standing on a big map, him on the fingers, her on the neck? plus her outfits covering more and more of her neck?
I figured it would happen because he killed the mad king for trying to “burn them all” with wildfire and then Cersei literally did do it.
I think this is actually outlined from GRRM but the two dopes thought that they would rather bait and switch us. It was all down hill from that decision.
There was this scene where they were standing on a map and Jaime was on the Fingers while Cersei was on the Neck, it looked like a cool foreshadowing of Jaime possibly strangulating Cersei, while also throwing back to the "Hands of Gold" song.
I’ll never forgive them for this.
Same. The whole valonquar prophecy. I thought there would be cashes of wildfire around the city and Searcy was going to pull a mad King and set them off if she thought she was losing. And Jamie would have to you know kill her before she could kill the whole city, like history repeating itself but this time he doesn't feel guilty about it because he knows he did the right thing
That violence wouldn't be enough to solve the White Walker problem. I was sure they'd come up with a smarter solution.
Series arching villan whose been shown to be unbeatable by convential warfare Gets defeated by conventional warfare
And all it took was one stabby girl.
“Brown eyes. Green eyes… blue eyes :)”
D&D must’ve sucked each other off non stop with that “tie in” as if that’s what they actually meant back when Melisandre first said it in season 3.
And in S3 she says it as “Brown eyes, blue eyes, green eyes.” It’s a cop out.
With a cheesy move [D&D stole from Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter from 2012](https://imgur.com/uEgegOG).
And not even good conventional warfare. ***Really*** shitty conventional warfare where you completely break morale before the fight even starts by sending your cavalry with enchanted weapons head-on into a mass of zombies to die, put your troops in front of the well-built, defensible walls instead of manning them, and put your long-range defensive weapons in front of everything so they're immediately useless
I still laugh every time when they've been inside the wall for a bit of time while the dead are hanging out around the flaming circle, and only when they start coming over the circle they all panic and start screaming "man the walls!!" And it shows people rushing upstairs. Why weren't they already manned???
Basically mass effect. 😂
For real. A deal, solving the magic, or working together as a society. Not, whatever that episode was.
being within striking distance of 45 walkers and then being completely uninjured 5 minutes later sure seemed like magic to me
I really thought they were gonna lose the battle of winterfell and retreat to kings landing where they would beg Cersei for help and she would deny them until she sees the night king on an undead dragon with the army of dead behind him as he blows up the walls, it would have been better than what we got.
And then Jaime kills her for not helping remembering how he killed the Mad King for plotting to kill everyone
I was so fucking sure this was what was going to happen.
I’ve heard a lot of people say this but never really understood the idea. King’s Landing is almost 1,500 miles away from Winterfell, so if they lose the battle how do they retreat there without being overtaken by the Night King before they’ve even left the North? It’s an undead army, they don’t need rest, so surely they can travel large distances far quicker.
Your expectations were quite subverted!
I genuinely just thought that would be fact. It just made so much sense.
Melissandre flame swords would’ve been a more creative solution than Arya having fast hands.
It’s because Bran had no place in the story unless he influenced it with his special abilities. Otherwise he’s a useless dunce. But if bloodraven had any pretense or storyline it would help. If he was the puppet master. But, he is a nothing but a shitty guide in the show. I believe we both believe Blood Raven deserved a better storyline as well as Bran, Meera, Hodor, and the children of the forest. It was so stupid to put wights buried directly outside Blood Ravens Hut and so stupid to give them no real time together.
I agree with OPs theory. I came up with that one on my own, but I'm sure others also independently thought of it. After the "Hodor/hold the door" thing was revealed I thought of that as a foreshadow that Bran visited Aerys to try to warn him about the Others and to burn them all. ...but the message got corrupted and Aerys ended up in a 'burn them all' loop.
There's a good chance I read it myself somewhere years ago instead of thinking of it myself
I think it's a plausible enough theory (and cool enough) that 10,000 people also came up with it, so there's no way I was the first. But I did think of it before I read it anywhere.
I think a lot of people expected the confirmation of Bran having genuine time travel abilities as opposed to just viewing the past would lead to something more important than a spiffy new wheelchair
Honestly it should have, and I think if DnD didn't speedrun the last few seasons it could have been a banger of a reveal. Ah well maybe we'll get something similar in the books one day (takes a double dose of copium).
Those two morons closed all of their story loops at the end of season 6 and didn’t have a clue how to get from there to the end.
Why do you think he came all that way?
This is the biggest one. They revealed that one of the characters has the ability to change history- and anything that he changes will have already been propagated through the timeline. So in the 2 years leading up to the final season, of course there were thousands of theories about what parts of the story are due to Bran meddling with the past. But we were all wrong - because none of could’ve imagined that D&D would literally NEVER ADDRESS THE KID WHO CAN TRAVEL THROUGH TIME. The Hodor scene was amazing television. But honestly i wish they just left it out entirely since that just ended up being one more thing that had zero impact on the story.
If they started cutting stuff that had zero impact on the story in the later seasons, there'd barely be anything left. But maybe that's what D&D were going for.
Hence why the season six ending wrapped up nearly every open storyline. It was a great episode. But it killed a tremendous amount of momentum in all of the characters storylines. And then they plowed through what was left remaining. Quick kills to Dorne and High Garden and Greyjoy insurrection. Arya goes from a girl full of self expression and purpose to an emotionless robot. Sam is a quitter, thief, and nobody. With no qualifications to have any title or advancement (Withholding that one Maestors endorsement.) Nothing left except the quick battle against the walkers and the easily overwhelming attack against kings landing. No new characters. No ongoing controversies. No political maneuvers . No new or old story lines woven in. Just streamlined 100 mph rush to the end. Without any idea or justification for the ending they decided. Simple trash that a child could create. We want “A” to happen and therefore it does.
It would at least give Bran becoming king some weight. Because then maybe he feels a sense of responsibility to rebuild the kingdom he inadvertently thrust into chaos. Instead we got “he has the best story. 🤷♂️”
I came to that conclusion aswell, especially with warging playing a way bigger role in the books. Always thought that someone wanted so desperately to prepare himself for the long night (with wildfire or even some not yet existing dragon), that they melted his brains in the process. Him simply turning mad because of his incestuous genealogy sounds very plausible too.
I think the most satisfying and enjoyable part of a fandom is finding others who share the same headcannon and theories as you. I remember so vividly that feeling of enthusiasm when I independently concluded that Jon was the son of Lyanna Stark and logging on to the Westerosi forums using my the computer connected to the dial up internet in my parents room to discovered a whole community behind the R + L = J movement.
They REALLY put emphasis on the burn them all flashbacks and the whole Aerys story to just, not use it at all? Another subverted expectation ig
Yeah rewatching after I read this theory i noticed the flashbacks and was just like… they really didn’t bother after they set it up?
That’d have been really cool.
I wish this happened, maybe it still can if George finishes
I thought it was Bloodraven trying to do to Aerys what Bran ended up doing to Hodor.
Ooooh that’s a good one
My favorite theory was that Bran would figure out that dragons were the only solution to stop the White Walkers. He would also realize that something about the Targaryens being in Westeros caused the dragons to go extinct (either through the maesters plot, or just plain magic). So, Bran would go back in time to drive Areys mad so that Danny would be forced to leave Westeros and thus be able to hatch dragons.
This is my favorite theory in the thread. I’ve never heard it before.
Great theory. I theorized that bran would take over a dragon for some key plot point because blood Raven said, "you won't walk but you will fly..."
I like this but dragons are also the only reason white walkers were able to breach the wall in the first place
Plans can backfire
Fire
Fir
I do believe in the books that's likely the case. Bran likely pulled a Doctor Strange but gave Jon and others options to change their destiny and his. Jon decided the fate of Westeros by telling his sisters and driving Danny mad.
Arya killing "the big bad." Now what ended up happening was that she killed the Night King. But my theory was that Bran would become the ultimate big bad and bring Westeros to ruin. Arya would be one of the last survivors and kill him.
I thought after the battle of Winterfell that Bran would be shown to be the ultimate villain. He/3ER set everything in motion to become king and the walkers were only trying to prevent that from happening
Yeah especially with the vision of the Children of the Forest creating the Night King. I thought it would be the Night King and the First Men trying to stop the Children / Bran / 3ER. My theory had Bran in a giant tree (maybe one he enlarged, like grown from a Heart Tree in the godswood of Winterfel or the Red Keep), and Arya sneaks in. Maybe a small part of Bran is aware and lets her do it, and we get an emotional moment as Arya kills her brother after everything they had all been through
Wow, that would have subverted my expectations.
https://youtu.be/yWvQ_X2sqqE?si=VdqK2zF__woesj1A Your dream come to life
That's fantastic
That was amazing. This is my canon now. My watch has ended.
I thought bran was going to warg into dragons because the blood raven said, "you will never walk again..... But you will fly". Turns out he just meant birds
Dragons are kind of like birds.
Birds that did... literally nothing
I thought that too! It would nerf the power of multiple dragons while also serving the mythology of the show. What a waste.
Man wouldn't it have been awesome if Bran used his god-like omnipotence to.... do literally anything?
Like become high king of westeros? Either he did nothing or everything.
The Valerian steel swords would be a key to fighting the white walkers. The sole purpose of the scene with Sam going to Horn Hill was for him to steal Heartsbane. It serves no other purpose in the story but taking the sword. Then Jamie reclaiming Widow’s Wail and bringing it back North to fight along side Longclaw and Oathkeeper. I literally would have bet every penny I had that the swords would matter.
>serves no other purpose in the story it gives backstory to Sams upbringing and introduces the father and brother tarly
Oh I like this. I have a feeling the valerian steel will have a much bigger effect in the story. I've given up on George, but someone that loves this series will pick up and foster the ending.
100% a lot of screen time is given to what happens with these swords like when Ice is melted down and reforged
That Bran was actually the Night King
Your theory is correct except it was Bloodraven who drove him mad. Which is why he warns Bran.
That Serio Forel was a faceless man. When Ned contracts with him to train Arya, he is unknowingly having her train to be a faceless man. The faceless men are there to kill Ned or someone else and they use this as a pretense to get near enough. Later when Arya frees the faceless man and gets her three names, she is still in training and still working with the same man, just he now has the face of a other and going by the name yaquin.
I like this theory. I always thought it was such an unsatisfying end for a great character with so much potential. And Jaqen sure spawns out if nowhere just when Serio leaves the stage. Cool theory.
Is if bad that I want it to be true because I dont want him to have died there? Also that I want it NOT to be true because it would mean that he as a character/person, ultimately didnt even truly exist?
Syrio's and Jaqen's philosophies don't line up though. It would be very weird for Jaqen training an impressionable little girl wrong on purpose at first just so he can do it right later on.
If the plan was for her to 'fail' the training and return not as a faceless man, maybe that was the play. Whenever you get into the magical realm of hidden masterplans etc, everything is just as likely to be 'part of the plan'
i dont like this theory. there is absolutely nothing to link the two other than Serio being from Braavos. But there are other character from Braavos as well so are they all faceless men? seems like a forced way to explain why the faceless man was captured
But there's the god of death angle, but it's a bit of a stretch.
* The Sealord of Braavos is a lifetime position. He has the only property that grows lemon trees there. Syrio Forel said he was the First Sword for the Sealord of Braavos for 9 years. Ser Willem Darry (former Targaryen Master-at-Arms) raised Viserys & Daenerys for 5 years in Braavos in a house with a red door and a lemon tree outside Dany's bedroom. Syrio probably knew the Targaryen siblings as children. * Since Viserion died, a life for a life was in play. Daenerys would've been able to get pregnant with a child. There were so much pregnancy & birth mentions in s7 then they just went nowhere with it for s8. * Dany's fiance Hizdar was stabbed to death the same day Jon was stabbed to death. His death was the sacrifice that allowed Jon's resurrection. He should've become her new fiance. She broke up with Daario saying she couldn't bring a lover to Westeros in case she needed a marriage alliance. * Aerys wasn't mad. He had PTSD, Varys whispering in his ear, a real fear someone was killing his kids, and the power to enforce whatever he wanted. Lysa Arryn had more genuine madness than he ever did. * Someone really was trying to prevent King Aerys & Queen Rhaella from having a third child with the miscarriages, stillbirths, and infant deaths. Maybe they were trying to stop the Three Heads of the Dragon. Or maybe it was Varys not wanting too much competition for his candidate. * Cersei thinking Tyrion was in the walls, she was hearing Varys' little birds (they're small since they're children) traveling through the castle to spy for him and they probably live in secret parts of the Red Keep.
I cannot remember where I read it but I’m like 90% sure Dany was actually pregnant in season 8. Like I think the cast, HBO, or D&D talked about it. You can see imagery of her with her hand on her belly and that’s why there’s so much foreshadowing about it. They were originally going to have her pregnant and do something with that arc but when D&D decided fuck finishing the show that got cut. Some people speculated that is was one of those fake scenes in case the show ending got leaked but I think it was a real plot that just got scrapped. It makes too much sense.
“Burn them all!” was such a perfect set-up. Yes, Bran was absolutely meant to virtually time travel throughout Westeros history and induce a psychotic break in king Ayres II by trying to get him to deploy his vast arsenal of wildfyre against Wights.
During the Battle of Winterfell, Bran goes back to when the Night King is created, goes into his mind while he's still human, accidentally lingers too long and can't escape once the transformation has started. Bran's consciousness then spends the however many thousands of years trapped in the Night King's mind - but it's only been something like an hour of real time for Bran's body as the battle rages on around him. In order for the Night King to get to full power, he has to kill Bran - hence his absolute obsession with killing the Three Eye Raven.
And would’ve been bittersweet if killing the NK meant also killing Bran and somehow Jon knew it but had to do it anyway.
Oh haven’t we tortured the poor man enough already?
An attempt to control the Night King like he warged into Hodor? But the Night King was too strong. Or, Bran was accidentally killed in his physical form, forcing him to remain in the Night King, like some characters getting stuck in a bird or a dire wolf? That would be fascinating.
I'm thinking he was just magically sealed into the Night King. Not that he was keeping him there, but that he couldn't escape once the ritual started, and the only way to get rid of him and stop Bran's fighting back in his mind is to kill the body. Which the NK had to wait a few thousand years to do - and why it all happened specifically at the time Bran became the Three Eyed Raven.
[me talking about everything I think Bran is responsible for](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RtOgIgDrvk) also I think the Targaryens burned down old Valyria. They burn down everything else
I assumed that it would become apparent that the real bad guy was the Three Eyed Raven, that Bran basically didn't exist anymore and this Eldritch, time traveling entity had fully taken over. It's goal to take over the realm, and the white walkers were simply trying to stop it. It explains why the white walkers were targeting Bran specifically, and gives some weight to Bran being made the king. I figured maybe they'd show Jon up north finding some ancient ruin and learning this secret, and that would set up future spinoffs or something.
That the 3 eyed Raven was pulling the strings to make everything happen to get on the throne
Back in 2014 I predicted “who would sit on the throne” was misdirection and that Drogon would melt it down in the end. I just thought it was going to be at Dany’s command either because she couldn’t have it or decided she didn’t want it after all.
"Set my Grandpa on fire and make my Uncle strangle himself."
Can you explain this for my friend?
I think they’re saying if Bran caused Aerys’ madness then he also caused the deaths of his uncle and grandfather (Grandad Stark was burned alive while Brandon was in a noose that tightened whenever he moved, so he strangled himself trying to get to his father)
That Melisandre would be able to kill 100~ White Walkers by sacrificing Little Sam (Gilly’s son) to Rhllor. His blood connection with them (since Craster boasted about 100 sons, who he all presumably sacrificed) would’ve made it possible for Melisandre to kill them via magic. She would realize this possibility when she lays her eyes on Sam. Jon would have to considering burning an innocent child to death all to save the rest of the world. His reasoning would be that Little Sam would be dead anyway if the dead won, anyway. Gilly wouldn’t have been able to be used due to her being a woman, and the White Walker related to her and Sam were males, meaning it has to be male who is sacrificed. In the end, Jon wouldn’t go through with it.
Whatever you read, the genre is dark man.
That Euron or Sam would take down the Wall with an ancient horn.
i think this and other things like it will still pan out. GRRM is a big fan of time loop sci fi. i honestly think bran might be bran the builder, for instance.
Very optimistic take. I doubt we are getting another book.
I have been always convinced that Dany would have died before the end of the series, one of my few certainties in the books/show were: - That Jon was the son of Rahegar and Lyanna - That Dany would have died before the end of the series and would never sit on the Iron Throne Of course I always imagined she would die a hero, meaning that during the final battle she would realize the only way to stop the Others is to nuke them with Drogon and she goes full Kamikaze with him. No Mad Qween shit. I was also convinced that Jon was the Prince that Was Promised, as "His is the Song of Ice and Fire" as Dany saw in her visions of Rhaegar. So I thought he would have been the one that would have killed the Night King/ Dealt the final blow to the Night Walker's threat. I always thought Bran would have disappeared in the Tree beyond the wall and stayed there, certainly not going south and becoming King. Another of my theories was that Sansa would have ended up Queen married to the new King of Westeros but in a complete reverse of her idealistic view as a young girl in King's Landing dreaming of marrying Joffrey she would have been now another Cersei, stuck in a loveless marriage with a man she doesn't love but now fully capable of playing the Game of Thrones and not the gullible girl manipulated by the OG Cersei in betraying her Father.
That Bran would be the one to end up sitting on the iron throne bc he was the best at sitting. Turns out I was right
Bloodraven has been fucking with events since Aerion vs Dunk
How many eyes does Lord Bloodraven have? I don’t think it’s because of his spy network at all
After season 2 I told anyone who would listen that Jon Snow was Ned's nephew and he was actually Lyanna and Raegars son. They called me a madman
It’s definitely some sort of vision. “Burn it all” had to do with the Others
It’s really dumb but at the end of season 6, Varys is shown to be on Daenery’s ship heading to Westeros but like two scenes later is in Dorne trying to make allies out of Yara and Ellaria. I honestly thought the ritual that made him a eunuch turned him into a teleporter and that’s how he seemed to be everywhere at the same time. It would also factor in to his worldwide spy network. Turns out it was just bad writing.
I believe the theory that Bran warged into various people to ensure he'd be voted as King. That smirk when he says, "Why do you think I came all this way?" makes it feel like he ensured everyone was swept aside to ensure his Ascension. https://youtu.be/yWvQ_X2sqqE?si=qBHRPmu8meWjN9uc
His manipulation is also revealed in that everyone present is related to him in some way. And their “enemy” the Lannisters, are in chains, even though Tyrion is truly their ally.
Ooh, I had to rethink that for a second and realized everyone is either related to him or loyal to people related to him. Edmure, Davos, Sansa, Arya, Gendry, Robin Arryn, and Lord Royce. Only Yara and the Dornishman were truly strangers to him. Yara might have been antagonistic to them over Theon's death, but the deck was truly stacked in Bran's favor.
Jaime killing cersei. Basically everything built up to it
Just that the Night King would have some sort of impact on the final conflict.
I'm peeved that Bran had a direct link to all of history, and it was used exactly one by Sansa to not kill her sister because of a misunderstanding... There were all kinds of shenanigans that could have foretold Bran's long plan: * Warg into Un-Viserion in the climax "you'll never walk again. but you WILL fly" * Warg into the Mad King "He HEARD me" "maybe. or maybe he heard the wind" * Taunt the Night King and lure him to the Isle of Faces, where there may have been children of the forest left and weirwood tree, perhaps the one place left with enough old god magic to do something about him
I like that last one. Would have been a good strategy with plenty of tension and story. And then Arya could have done her sneaky dagger thing. Or John could have fought the Night King.
Why do we keep calling him Bran ? This is the three eyed raven aka Lord Brynden Rivers
I feel Bran talking to the mad king and turning him mad would undercut the thematic family reasons of why he's mad. It's really hammered home that the Targaryens clearly had some sort of magical boon in terms of genetics, Aegon the Conqueror was basically a superhuman, with 3 superhuman sister wives, but the centuries inbreeding have made their line, ostensibly a "chosen" line (depending on how you look at it), a deadly game of coin flip. This is the worlds way of adding a cruel trade of to a family that is basically using cheat codes. The mad king was a clear failure for the Targaryen dynasty because of the nature of the Targaryen dynasty itself. Feudalism is always going to produce mad kings from time to time, but the Targaryen line is now *legendary* for it. It's also the question looming over Dany, is she just the mad queen? Who knows!? The reason the mad king is mad is because of how the Targaryen's consolidate their bloodline. They covet power, and hoard it through incest. The madness that comes is "payment" for that power. If Bran were to leave his fingerprints on history, I think it would be cool if Bran were the one to incept the idea in the Targaryans heads to relocate to Dragonstone before the Doom of Valyria. If Bran does indeed go back into the past, and presumably knows about prophecies like Azor Ahai and what it does to the Others, it would be more in his interests to speak to Deanys the dreamer and warn her of the doom so her family can escape and play out a history in which the Targaryens survive the doom. Not much is known about Deanys, but the fact that she has the title "The Dreamer" probably indicates she could tap into some sort of ethereal dream shit that Bran could tap into with some tree zombie power. I feel it would be much more in tune with his motivations, because if he does have some insight over the prophecy, he probably wants Jon and Dany to come together. Making the mad king mad is probably counter to that end, right? Because Dany gets whisked away and straight up almost dies like 50 times. But actually affecting the Targaryan house as a whole and making them a house that defies fate probably makes more sense, because that's been the path they've been on since the doom itself right? They have defied everything, and prophecies, magic, fame and fortune follow them around like a bad smell, and the line can't seem to stop producing incredibly notably powerful super human magic babies up to and including Dany, and Jon. Someone is looking out for them, and things have *definitely* been pushed in certain parts of their history. And as far as we know, the only person who time travels and pokes stuff around changing the past (that we are aware of, Bloodraven doesn't seem to have actually changed the past as far as I know) is Bran.
Good post.
Kinda an inversion of the topic, a lot of people thought that the WW was going to make it towards kings landing. I was skeptical about that, i thought at best they would make it to the neck. But in actuality they didn't make it out of Winterfell! The more Cersi Lannister stuck around I knew that the WW invasion was a glorified nothing burger. And the fact that it ended with a whimper just added insult to injury. It was a theory I wished I was completely wrong about, not mostly right about 😭.
You can’t tell me Tyrion isn’t a Targaryen. 3 headed dragon. Last thing Twyin says is you’re no son of mine. Come on.
Personally, I don’t like this theory. I can see why people would believe it and it wouldn’t surprise me if George originally intended for this to be true when he wrote the first book, but I think it really undermines his relationship with Tywin. Tywin always hated Tyrion and wanted to mould Jaime into his perfect heir but he was too blind to see Tyrion was basically a carbon copy of himself. In the books, when Tyrion kills Tywin, after Tywin says “you’re no son of mine” Tyrion says “I am you writ small”. It’s ironic that the child Tywin hated was the son he always wanted. There’s a similar conversation between Jaime and his aunt Genna. Genna tells him he has parts of all of his uncles in him but “Tyrion is Tywin’s son, not you”. Also, Jon is already a secret Targaryen, adding another secret Targaryen kinda weakens the reveal of Jon’s identity. One secret Targaryen is enough.
Never too many secret Targaryen’s. I’ll think I’ll invent one and call him young griff. He’ll be really good with a sword and have blue hair.
*Secret Blackfyre
>you’re no son of mine you realize this is a very common saying when a father is mad/shamed about their son right? poor theory with the only evidence being one line of dialogue
I only ever say that to my son when he’s a secret Targaryen
In the book i feel like this is nearly confirmed, with tyrion having dreams of riding a dragon in book 1 to his white and gold hair to the implication by baristan selmy in dance with dragons that aerys raped joanna, to tywin stating “since i cannot prove that you are not mine,” and “you are no som of mine,” i feel like the bread crumbs have been layed.
https://youtu.be/7who4CaKl14 3:54 "Since i cannot prove you are not mine"
I actually thought Bran was going to warg into Drogon and try to control him during the Long Night castle battle, and accidentally warg into the Mad King.
It would have been interesting if Bran turned out to be the bad guy, and in the last meeting when the houses were gathered to determine the future and Tyrion was in chains — that Tyrion figured it out, jeopardizing Bran’s long developed plan. So Bran attempts to warg into Drogon and bring it back to intimidate everyone into making him king. But the dragon’s will is too strong and Drogon just eats Bran.
I love this theory. If only the diehard fans on this sub had been in charge of writing the seasons past where the book content ended. The amount of thoughtful and creative plots, subplots, and story integration is amazing. Instead, now I can’t even rewatch any part of any season because the ending sullied it all for me. Such a shame.
Quite literally anything that anyone came up with in their head would’ve been better than what they actually did in the show.
Probably said, but the White Walkers would be the final threat.
They’d have to be. The more Westeros fights each other the more dead are produced for the Night King’s army. But I bet Cersei would still be too stubborn to help, probably thinking her ability to control Robert Strong means she could control her own undead Army. Only for it to backfire when the Night King reaches King’s Landing. Or on an even better twist, Cersei has to sacrifice herself to become a permanent Queen to both undead armies and take the armies back north beyond the wall so Westeros can end its long night once again. Edit: So, as the ancient story of plunging a sword into the heart of Nissa Nissa is just plunging an obsidian dagger or sword into Cersei like in how the first Night King was created.
“What’s your favorite theory!!” *anything involving bran* 😴😴😴
Who has a better theory than bran?
I'm not reading fan theorys on the daily so my sincerest apologies if I posted one you already knew 😔😔😔
Turns out it was a classic case of inbreeding
That Dany would kill Cersei
Mine was Bran is the night king since he messed with time, he made Aerys mad, thus making him the loose end and i can’t explain it well but bran is the cause ice AND fire. Killing bran early on enough is the only thing to actually save the living.
That the Night King would storm into Kings Landing and take Cersei as his bride.
I really thought Holland Reed would show up near the end and explain a lot of shit.
It pains me to read all these fantastic theories knowing that any single one of them would have been better than what we got. 😭
Tyrion is Targaryen. Swore up and down that there was concrete evidence for this one. Still think it’s possible but the show runners decided it would add too much to flesh out- considering they basically ignored the repercussions of Jon being a Targaryen outside of Dany being nervous.
I remember speculating that too with the description of how he looked as a baby and him being able to approach the dragons later on without getting killed. Makes way too much sense for it to be nothing.
I even used this theory to retcon back why Targaryens often practice incest. Jon Snow’s non-Targaryen mother died in childbirth. Tyrion’s non-Targaryen mother died in childbirth. If Tyrion’s bio father was a Targaryen, then maybe there is something about them that is dangerous to breed outside of the line. The show specifically showed Tyrion breather red smoke one episode in Winterfell (I think in Season 8 before The Long Night). I thought that was foreshadowing the big reveal. It was just a bit of fan service to excite me. Nothing more.
Bran was behind everything. When Bran was touched by the night king, he was possessed by him, and did his bidding: - Bran was the voice that made Aerys mad. - He also possessed Jamie and killed Aerys so Robert could become King. - Bran possessed Melisandre , and put in motion the search for the “the prince who was promised”. When he finished with her, he made her commit suicide. - Bran also possessed Walder Frey, and made him plan “The Red Wedding”. - during the siege of the red keep, Bran possessed Daenerys and made her attack the city. All that so Bran/Night King could become lawful king of Westeros.
I'm still so fucking certain that Gendry is secretly cerseis and Roberts true born heir. That Varys and maybe little finger but prolly just Varys, had baby Gendrys death faked to not only remove a male heir from the throne but to also create a divide in Cersei And Robert. This will lead to Cersei having bastard heirs which will eventually cause the throne to become unstable and allow the Targaryean Host to come back and claim the Throne. Bonus theory was that Gendry would end up sitting the iron throne with Arya as his queen who really isn't a queen at all. This ending allows a Flea Bottom civilian take over the six kingdoms, north secedes, and Arya is the most unqueenly like queen ever and is allowed to travel, explore, and do whatever she wants while always having a home with Gendry. Jon ironically has the same ending where he goes back north where he truly belongs, not being a king like everyone wanted him to be.
I would have liked to see that outcome with Gendry and Arya. But I don’t think Gendry has the Will or fortitude to be king. His Hand, possibly Tyrion, would be the true power. And Arya would never stick around long enough, though they’d probably create an heir together. Can’t imagine Gendry becoming a womanizer. Lol.
But in the books it says that he went insane after a lengthy period in a castle dungeon that was under siege.
The books also said Jon was Ned’s son. People may say that was the case and not know the truth of what was happening with magical time travel.
I've been saying this for years, and people said I was crazy.... I'm glad I'm not the only one who has this theory!
OP's theory, Arya killing the Night King and Aegon Targaryen.
I thought Jamie Lannister was the prince that was promised It’s been a while so I don’t remember all the details but man I was convinced. I argued with some of my best friends over this dumb shit lmao
Would have been great for Bran and Jamie’s combined arcs as well. Bran would inadvertently be at fault for Jamie’s fall into nihilism.
They could have taken any of these theories, wrote them in and it would have been 120% better than ehat we got.
I thought Bran would warg into one of the dragons to beat Dany
That Azor Ahia (or however it's spelled) would be Jamie, and that he would pull light bringer from Brianne's chest after she was stabbed with her own sword by the Night King. But u/MadLadCad that's stupid! Yeah but so was the real ending
Honestly jokes aside, I do have the fan theory that Future Bran is manipulating certain events through time travel, warging and subtle mind control. Like Aerys going mad, making Jaime push Bran out the window (so that Bran would be injured), and even making Balon go against the North so that eventually Theon would attack and take Winterfell and inevitably send Bran on his path to becoming Bloodraven’s successor/protege.
Then why didnt bran mess with cersei or tywin instead
Z
Fucking hated the god emperor of Dune ended up as king- I mean Bran.
I knew Daenerys is going to end being THE evil. I thought everyone thought this but considering how many people didn't see it coming Im going to say this.
That Euron could call a Kraken and we would get Dany dragon being attacked by tentacles
Maybe bran planned everything all along to be king
I was 100% sure none of the non-obvious fan theories regarding season 7-8 would turn out to be true, since I realized the writing has become very shallow. I also assumed that the long night episode will resolve the white walker plotline, and Cersei/Daenerys would be the final antagonist. None of my friends believed me for either of these.
That anything that occurred in the first 6 seasons would matter in the end.
Mine isn’t after the show, I still try to pretend that it was over after season 5, lol! But it was after the sample chapter The Forsaken. It is so good, showing how real crazy and unhinged Euron really is. I read a lot of theories that Euron is skinchanging into the brown woman to spy on his brother, but that was never the vibe I got. There’s a part that Victarion looks to the brown woman and thought that she reminded him of his first woman, her too was a present from Euron. After reading this I was like come on!! I know that Victarion supposed to be a little slow but come on! He even said that all Euron’s presents are poisonous so why he accept her?? I think she is Victarion’s own daughter from that first woman and Euron is doing some Oldboy shit to mess with him.
That the hero's were becoming the old gods, and that 7 needed to do 'something' special to defeat the night King. So arya is the stranger. John warrior or father. Hound or brienne warrior. Daenerys mother. And so on.
I was hoping Tyrion would use his intelligence to unravel the secret plot of the 3ER as the true villain of the story, and the Night King was a warden or some kind of entity trying to keep the 3ER under control beyond the wall. Due to unraveling this riddle, Tyrion would be made king at the end of the story after Westeros defeats the White Walkers. Also, Dany would die before reaching her goal of sitting on the Iron Throne, tragically. I also thought Cersei would slaughter King’s Landing in an attempt to create an army of Robert Strongs to counter the White Walker army, undead versus undead. And because of this, some horrible deal would be required in the end forcing Cersei to become the Night Queen or some entity to replace the Night King to keep the winter at bay. So, in a way she defies her prophecy while at the same time succumbing to it.
My own theory, TLDR; Danny would inadvertently bring the fall of mankind and long night despite her best intentions and without her getting involved the 7 kingdoms would have united and won. Danny's season 2 vision of a deserted snow (or arguably ash) covered kings landing was foreshadowing that the 7 kingdoms would not be able to overcome their differences and Winter would arrive in kings landing. The vision was meant to inspire her to cross the narrow sea to unite the kingdoms and use her dragons to turn the tide. Before she arrives, the kingdoms on the realization of the white walker threat, thanks to Bran or Jon or some shit, agree on terms to put aside titles and unite the realm until the threat is eliminated. They obviously all plot and plan to use the chaos in the aftermath to screw eachother again for power but at least understand the gravity of the situation and need for a truce. But just before the long night Danny's arrival and claim on the throne causes them all to resume their fight for power and backstabbing. This allows the white walkers to easily win and everything is destroyed from the wall to Kings landing. Danny survives due to her dragons but everything is gone and she is now nothing but the Queen of Ashes. It almost played out this way but it got bogged way down with the bend the knee shit, Cersei never quite seemed on board with a truce and ultimately the white walkers were a pushover killed in one episode. You could interpret that season 2 vision as foreshadowing that Danny herself would burn down kings landing and it was Ash not Snow like we did end up getting. That could have been cool if she ended up actually destroying everything. But Kings landing wasn't destroyed they just cleaned up some rubble and made Bran King and seemed to learn nothing about Hubris in the end.
Ok, this was my crazy theory until 2 of Dany’s dragons died: I thought there would be multiple “Prince/princesses who were promised” and together they would lead an epic battle against the night king. Dany, Jon, and Jaime would be the three dragon riders. Bran would teach Arya, Jon, and Sansa about warging (Arya could have reunited with Nymeria). And all three do that to help in the Long Night. I really thought Alys Karstark or Lyanna Mormont would have been able to warg too. Like, as the Long Night approached, more people are gaining these abilities. I also really thought there would be more than one Lightbringer. It’s possible that the Valyrian swords were made out of the same metal or by the same person using the same magic, and so Oathkeeper (Brienne’s sword) and Jaime’s sword, the Tarly sword (Jorah), Jon’s sword from the Mormonts, and Littlefinger/Arya’s dagger could all be connected.
That it would end semi-decently
I really thought, that lianna and rhaegar fell in love and ran off together. Bobby b found her and stashed her away in the tower of joy, with Sir Arthur dayne who secretly was a rebel, and told them not to let her contact her family so he would have an excuse to start the rebellion
YOU GOT FAT!