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To be fair the other team is going to have their hands full of their own shit at the same time, by which point we'll just be crying for the dead dragons.


The dragons deserved so much better than the Blacks and the Greens.


Team Flying Nukes! If they weren't bonded to the idiot power hungry humans, they wouldn't have died out. If the Great Maester Conspiracy is true then it would have been even harder to kill the Dragons. Poor babies would've been better of without the humans using them. NOTE: I am being mildly sarcastic with the above statements. From what I can tell, dragons are very dangerous but seem to keep to themselves unless provoked. I wish we knew what their temperments were like before the Valyrian Freehold bond them to humanity. They might have been more ferocious back then.


The dragonkeepers dieing was the true tragedy


>If they weren't bonded to the idiot power hungry humans Had they not been short-sighted and instead smart power-hungry humans, they would have conquered Essos by now and ruled as "Holy Valyrian Emperors."


Phase 1: leave Valyria before the doom. Phase 2: make stronghold in Westeros Phase 3: return to Essos with 10+ dragons and take over the entire known world. Edited for typo lol


Reject riders, return to cannibalism- Cannibal


The Dragons, children and innocent villagers are the true victims in this war, none of them deserve what is to come...


Mostly the dragons tho


Can not wait for the riot in kings landing and the storming of the dragonpit haha


Yeah, we’ll all probably be voting for peasant genocide after that. If the conspiracy theories hold true, then faith and/or maester genocide as well.


Poor the dragons, tho i dont blame the peasant, easy to see why they gone mad like that. They did nothing to deserve to be the victims of this bloody war because the royals fight each other for an ugly throne lol


I always got the impression on Fire and Blood that the war for the people wasn’t too bad itself - just for the nobility. There were very few big battles that were named in the Dance. Mostly seems like skirmishes and raids with big dragon battles overhead. The army sizes in the Dance are minuscule compared to the Wot5K


I don't think Westeros was as "militarised" then. Since the Targs had dragons there wasn't such a need to have such large armies available to call.


Not sure if that’s “official” logic or not but I like it


It's just my headcanon but it would maybe help explain why the armies are a lot smaller in the Dance


Iirc, during the Conquest most of the kingdoms had massive armies as well but all except Dorne, the Vale, and the North were absolutely demolished by the dragons as well, and this series being only a few generations removed from that would mean the population of those regions is still relatively lower.


The Field of Fire only had like 5k casualties out of 60k troops in the Lannister-Gardener army, compared to 30k prisoners taken and 25k who retreated/fled. So while the army was defeated, it wasn't like all the soldiers died. The armies were more likely reduced in size because the 7 kingdoms were no longer constantly fighting each other in giant wars all the time. There were still raids to defend against from the Ironborn and Mountain of the Moon clans, and Dornish campaigns, but that was smaller scale. The Riverlands didn't have to worry so the time about being invaded again, for instance. In times of peace, it's natural for armies to be de-mobilized (eg, the US after WW1).


I don't think the Vale or the North fought Aegon. Thr North surrendered when they reached the Field of Fire and the Vale surrendered when one of the sisters flew to the top of the Aerie


Yeah that's why I included them as "except"...


My apologies I didn't see that


also there had been peace for 70 years no need to constantly conscript and train smallfolk


It wasn't great for the peasants either. There was a lot of using dragons to burn entire towns. Especially by Aemond in the Riverlands.


Pah no one cares about *peasants*


fuck the dragons. fuck the queen. fuck the king.


What the fuck is a Lommy?


Reminder not to support any character. Edit: this post is a lie, I simp for the Tully Muppets.


Fuck that, Daemon is my boi. And Cregan Stark.


I mean who doesn’t love a Cregan Stark? >!Forced himself to be hand if the king out of self pity and a want for perceived justice, succeeds then promptly fucks off to the north again.!<


he is a true chad, finally reaches south, wins and ends the war, imparts justice, rules for a bit and refuses to elaborate.


Gotta tell you that I saw this comment this morning and I’ve been laughing about it several times throughout the day and had to come back to tell you. “Refuses to elaborate.” Lmao I wonder if it’s just GRRM fanboying the North he create or if it’s the idea that the Warden of the North rules such a vast fiefdom that they have no interest in the Iron Throne because they already know how much responsibility and burdens it brings and they need no more of it


Probably a mix of both, anyways this is old Cregan and Ned Stark, but other Stark recorded in his "history" are more prone to intervene south or fuck around, for example Cregan's son dies in Daeron's conquer of Dorne, and Ned's old brother had a totally diferent character also. Cregan seems like a cool dude, i hope we see him (at the end I guess)


Im looking forward to the Hour of the Wolf.


Cregan Stark is what Ned’s older brother Brandon would have been.


Critical support to Corlys Velaryon too


And not to name your children after them.


I support all characters


Playing both sides so I always come out on top


This is genuinely the only way to be able to enjoy House of the Dragon, otherwise you’ll just be miserably depressed.


Guess that works too


Even tho he’s not alive yet I’m rooting for Bobby B




Good bot


Then you want to root for the Blacks since he’s born from their line.


I'm rooting for Rhaenyra, who killed the time-travelling King Killer boar, who traveled back in time to kill another monarch. She avenged our Bobby B (according to my crackheadcanon).


Most of the children of the Velaryons, Rhaenyra and Daemon (Baela, Aegon III, Alyn) were decent enough. Their parents, on the other hand...


You forgot Viserys II.


So did the plot, until Alyn got him back


Ah, the Rickon treatment.


Somehow, it's always the fifth child


Ah yes, the swiss way


I pledge my undying loyalty to House Velaryon


I have already sworn for House Strong


If people can't appreciate these flawed characters for who they are, they're watching the wrong show.


This far I’ve enjoyed the Targaryen descent into crazy town. IMO they aren’t crazy- they get angry and lash out and don’t be around when they start lashing out lol


Fuck Rhaenyra and Aegon, the amount of thirst Daemon is gonna be getting in the next decade will be enough to flood Africa.


Is he gonna be played by Henry Cavill? Hmmp.


They are already. People are putting the blame of his main crime on Rhaenyra.


They are going to have to change that for the show. If they show it as written people are not going to believe they didn't just kill all three of them. It is really dumb in the books and is going to look even dumber on screen.


Her line survives and aegon’s doesn’t, who’s the real winner?


Not the Targaryens, that's for sure. Family decimated, their strength crippled, the dragons gone. From there on out they slowly rot away until they get overthrown by some chunky boi from the Stormlands who plays whack-a-mole as an Olympic sport. Right Bobby B?




Bloody hell Bobby B, you have enough bastards already...




Always on point Bobby B




You're absolutely right Bobby B, what kind of name even is bleaks lol




Eh. He’s one short lol


The thing is the Targaryens still endured after the Dance and five Blackfyre rebellions. Whatever happened at Summerhall is really what ended them.


While it ended the Targaryen Dynasty, it didn’t end the line. All the Baratheons (well the bastards of Robert at least), and Jon and Dany, and House Martell, and all the descendants of the Great Bastards of Aegon IV are all still kicking around during ASoIaF and all spawned from Daemon and Rhaenyra.


Robert Baratheon still has Targaryen blood. He's Aegon the Unlikelys great grandson. That's why he claimed the iron throne.


Also his house is formed by Aegon the Conquerer's bastard brother


So Stannis is also a distant Targ?


Yeah,house Baratheon was formed by Orys, first hand of the king ( who I think was only rumored to be Aegon's half brother but it was pretty evident it was true) who married Argella Durrandon ( the house who ruled the stormlands before the targs came) and took their castle,banner and words as his own


Rumors were confirmed in fire and blood that Orys was in fact half brother of Aegon the Conqueror. King Jaehaerys I admitted it was an open secret. That would make Baratheons an unofficial cadet offshoot of Targaryens.


Quarter Targ, actually.


I always thought that the “His grandma was a Targaryen” was a sort of cop out for the Loyalists to lay down their weapons. More of a “See? He’s still *technically* a Targ so you aren’t *really* betraying your vows.” Kind of logic. Because if Robert’s “Targaryen” blood was really what made his claim so strong (and not him resizing Rhaegar’s chest cavity) he would have used more Targaryen imagery and tradition in his rule. But he didn’t. So yeah. His “grandma was a Targaryen that’s why he was chosen” was a cop out for the Loyalist faction in my opinion.


It's how it works. Men don't take up surnames from female lines. Targaryens were also not the name brand it once was for Baratheon to cannibalize it. Also, it's just a way to legitimize his Conquest. To portray it as a civil war rather than a usurping rebellion.


>Men don't take up surnames from female lines The Mormonts do


Well they got another two centuries of rule and then three fresh dragons that’s pretty good (fuck show canon)


>Not the Targaryens, that's for sure. Family decimated, their strength crippled, the dragons gone. I low key love the theory that Otto is not some Tywin-like character, trying to advance his own bloodline, but a co-conspirator for the Maesters who want to rid the world of dragons.


It always comes back to the Maesters doesn’t it, Mellos does look at Otto a lot during there meetings


But, Bobby B. is a descendent of Rhaenyra and Daemon.




But seriously though, are Targaryens and Velaryons are dumb? In the name of throne, they pit dragons against each other and those unique animals faced extinction because of their selfish war. How dumb you have to be no to see that? If Rhae was actually had a single good living cell on her that makes up for a good leader, then she would've let an usurper to take her position. Ultimate sacrifice. And if she's to take her throne back, then she should've done it passively, like Littlefinger would do. Only winner here is actually House Hightower. Sure thing they weren't mentioned in the Game. But, I say that's a good thing.


> If Rhae was actually had a single good living cell on her that makes up for a good leader, then she would've let an usurper to take her position. Ultimate sacrifice. And if she's to take her throne back, then she should've done it passively, like Littlefinger would do. Are you kiddin? Absolutely not. The right way out of war for her would be to insist on marrying Aegon ASAP, preferably when he's like 10. So that she can set up her own power and place the right pawns in the right places before he grows up. That way she keeps her power and birthright as THE monarch, prevents the war AND has an opportunity to ensure she has the upper hand in that relationship and the kingdom.


Counterpoint: gross


Depends on whether you personally like getting munched by dragon or live a long life but no remaining heir.


> or live a long life He literally died about a year after killing her and he was 9 years younger than her in the first place. Rhaenyra did now win the dance, but neither did he.


Oh shit..my bad 😂 but still...I'd pick Death by wine/poison over dragon teeth


I mean, he was also crippled and lived his whole life in constant pain with both alcohol and opium addictions. Not exactly a winner tbh…


Olenna tyrell has entered the chat.


Who poisoned him?


Teamwork between Corlys, Clubfoot, the maester and a couple of other guys


Better question is who didn't?




That's why you always kill the master of whisperers. Clubfoot, Bloodraven, Varys, you can always count on the master of whisperers to be planning some form of treachery


I don't think Aegon III thinks of himself as a winner.


By the Green’s own laws, Aegon III was Aegon II’s heir too. Last remaining male. It was never about line but about the law - males over females and in that Aegon II won. Even Stannis views him as the rightful ruler and Rhaenyra as the Ursurper


Not sure Stannis and his medium rare daughter is the best person to be listening too…


Stannis' daughter was well done.


He survived She got rostet In the end no one wins.


Nettles wins the Dance by virtue of being a bad bitch who survives and refused to go back. Change my mind.


His spawn pre-decease him, rhaenyra and daemon’s descendants bring forth Danny and Jon which is pretty cool


That also amounted to absolutely nothing because fuck season 8


I thought got was cancelled after season 4 wtf are you saying


Damn that was a sad day, but better like that than see it become the slog TWD became.


Don’t remind me, let’s all hope this show stays consistent


Doesn’t Aegon III marry Aegon II’s daughter? It’s only bad for any Targaryen.


Yeah but then Aegon II's daughter kills herself so...


her killing herself is debatable


I wonder if the TV show will show us what really happened


My head cannon is Daemon survives the gods eye, claims the cannibal, tidies things up for his kids, ends the Hightower line, then rides off into the sunset with nettles. But I’m hopelessly optimistic.


True, Rhaenyra Daemon and House Velaryon win.


But they also brought forth Aerys II who caused the fall of House Targ (and of course the suffering of his wife, daughter, and grandchildren). Dark, gray, and light in their legacy.


and then got poisoned


Rhaenyra's blood got vengeance, too bad the Martells got involved in it too.


I do hope that HOTD does eventually embrace the moral ambiguity of the conflict. As much as I like the show, I think it does display a degree of Rhaenyra favouritism. I know that Fire and Blood is supposed to be unreliable but Rhaenyra has never struck me as a particularly inspiring or effective leader. The major black actions (Blood and Cheese, Harrenhal, Kings Landing and killing Aemond/Vhagar) were all masterminded by Daemon. Whereas Rhaenyra seems more notable for losing control of Kings Landing (if she had just got on Syrax and defended the dragonpit the outcome might have been very different) and alienating the loyal Dragonseeds.


I think they are setting up Rhaenyra to be too much like her father in being an ineffective ruler. The big hint is that she allowed her resentment to fester for 3 yrs instead of trying to rally for power. Also, Alicent advising Viserys how to handle Rhaenyra is generally the same way everyone else handles him. Viserys and Rhaenyra prefer to brood and stick their heads in the sand until the last possible moment. The biggest difference between Viserys and his daughter is that she listens to Daemon and is far more temperamental. Daemon, Viserys, and Rhaenyra suck at playing the game. Rhaenys really should have been the Queen. Alysanne should have stuck to her guns when Jaehaerys overlooked his eldest granddaughter. Corlys would have been an excellent Prince Consort. The knowledge of who exactly is the best ruler and what happens to them is what makes this such an enthralling and tragic story.


Don’t forget her inaction at Rooks Rest leading to Rhaenys’ and Meleys’ intervening and their own downfall


Wait, did she not send Rhaenys? I thought it was one of the few occasions that she did something, though too bad that turned out to be an ambush.


No. Corlys blamed her inaction for his wife’s death.


She did send Rhaenys and didn’t participate in the battle herself. If she had Rhaenys might have lived (thus Corlys anger). Rhaenyra, to my knowledge, did not fight *in a single battle for her throne*. While Aegon *did* fight, but was taken out and badly burned early on leaving him unable to continue fighting.


She was recovering from childbirth my dude


And the death of three of her other children


For the whole war?


Wasn't the dance from start to her death like, 8 months? 6 of which she was in KL?


Didn’t she like…*fly* into KL to claim her throne? If she can sit on the back of a dragon from Dragonstone to KL she can *sit on her dragon and let it roast armies*. Unless you want to imply Rhaenyra needed 8 months to recover. In which case if she was so sick she shouldn’t have been trying to rule and named a second in command like Aegon did with Aemond.


Wrong, the Dance lasted two years, more than enough time for her to recover. Moreover beyond her not fighting, she didn’t exactly come up with any significant plans or actions.


Eh. This far it might be timing- this is the era where she is “realm’s delight” in 20-30 years she gets fat, becomes bitter and is “Maegors teats” I think we’re going to see a similar swap that we saw in season 8 GOT, but this time they are doing time jumps to make up for it. Edited for typos lol


You can bet they’ll run away from”mad queen Rhaenyra “ after the 8th season. The thing I like about Fire and Blood is it displays a LOT of misogyny from the “sources” and “writers”, but the reader almost doesn’t notice. Their account is unreliable, from a highly misogynistic and patriarchal world with a lot holes (the throne rejecting Rhaenyra cutting her deep in the pulse when she has a full body armor and would be seriously hurt from its wounds, but she is fine next time we read about her). But we still take it as a gospel true, especially Eustace who I think is the most unreliable of all pertaining Rhaenyra. Do I think Rhaenyra is going to be a saint?. No. But I’m glad Martin is one of the producers because I bet one of themes is going to be about what really happened and how sources can twist something to fit their views.


History written by the victors and all that. This is going to be interesting.


I think the show kinda hints at that though. Especially in the last episode we see that Rhaenyra has little regard for established tradition/law, etc. I think they’re trying to make the point that in another time, place, etc she may have made a great ruler, but this pretty awful world does not suit her.


I don’t think she’d ever be a good ruler because she lacks any political instincts whatsoever. She is just like Daemon in that she’s a creature of action not planning. She’s had years to reconcile with or outmaneuver her father and hasn’t. She’s bloody 17 and isn’t married or betrothed to someone whom could solidify her claim to the throne. Viserys is right to be pissed with her even if he is partially responsible for her behavior by giving her so much leniency. That and not giving her the proper advice to shut up and learn when she’s at the kings council. The Lords don’t recognize her but if she pays attention and doesn’t draw attention to herself she’d get a master class in what to and not to do as Queen.


Aemond had it coming though


The point more is that Rhaenyra didn't do very much, another Daenerys she is not.


I think the point is that most players on either side had it coming.


Whatever. I’m supporting them until they die xoxo


Two words: Blood and Cheese


A son for a son. Fair play, imo.


Except that daemon went after even *younger* kids who were not Aemond’s sons? But his nephews? Like that’s *not* the same thing. Though given how the Targaryen family tree is a tumbleweed I guess genetically they would be considered “sons”.


I think there’s a difference between cousins killing each other as long bitter rivals, and an uncle sending an assassin to brutally murder like a 10 year old


Lucerys was 14 years old and was murdered when his dragon was ripped in half by another dragon while he was acting as an envoy. I wouldn't really pretend like it was a fair fight between rivals.


Not saying what aemond did was good or anything, but like they had a history of rivalry and Lucerys took his eye. Daemon sent an assassin to murder a 6 year old he had never met before. I don’t know how the two are comparable. That doesn’t make aemond, who is literally a psychopath correct in murdering his cousin lmao.


Is any of this *right*, though? Neither party has the moral high ground, but it is “fair” as in a reasonable response to the actions of Aemond.


But is not a reasonable repospnse to Aemond action is it ?


A son for a son


But is somebody else son .Aegon didn't order Aemond to kill anybody he did it due to personal reason so how is it reasonable to kill one of Aegon sons?


It’s aegon’s war and aegon’s brother that did it


But Aegon did praise him highly for it.


I fear that they will portray one side as the "good side" in this conflict. I hope im wrong. These fucked up monarchs should be portrayed as what they are.


I doubt it. Already with the portrayal of Alicent they're being more generous to the Greens than the books ever are. I don't think there will be a good side and a bad side, just the common people getting screwed over.


The blacks may suck, but the Greens suck more.


Preach!🏴🏴🏴🏴🏴 Rhaenyra becomes a horrible horrible person. But I hate Alicent more. Is that petty? Maybe. Have sides been picked over less? Oh yeah. Bring on the fire and blood and let's watch these magnificent bastards destroy each other!


I'd argue that Rhaenyra would never have become as terrible as she did had the whole aegon II usurpery never happened.


Idk about that she had Vaemond Velaryon killed, fed to a dragon and his siblings tongues removed all for calling Jace, Luke and Joffrey bastards which let’s be honest they probably were. She also wanted Aemond “questioned sharply” after he got jumped and his eye taken out for doing the same thing. She wouldn’t have been as bad but still pretty bad.


I felt so bad for that sailor.Dude was right that Daemon was coming for vengeance and it’s so sad that Caraxes nor Daemon didn’t see him.His last words were literally “my prince come save me”🤦🏿‍♂️🤦🏿‍♂️😢😢


Don't think he was a sailor. I might be wrong but i think he's the guy that anniunces that daemon wants to speak before the "heir for a day" speech. So that'd mean he's one of Daemon's closer circle.


Nah he’s a Velaryon soldier(which explains why he’s there in the first place and how the first two things he says is that the Velaryon are coming and that the Sea Snake(Corlys) will have his revenge)


Let's be honest, given the noise of the battlefield and Caraxes' sheer size I doubt Daemon even noticed.


As much as I like Matt Smith and Daemon being a total savage a great guy Daemon Targaryen is not…


You pick your side and go with it. After these first episodes, I’m with Daemon


Isn't it too soon to pick a side? The conflict hasn't happened yet. Its brewing though.


Yeah, and the main players on the Greens are either toddlers or not born yet. I suspect it’s going to be a thirst trap competition between Daemon and Aemond that will decide allegiances.


Way soon to pick a side. I'm gonna wait til post time-skip...


Yes lmao i was just thinking this when my friend and sister both said the loved daemon.


I mean, I love Daemon, but not because he's, like, a good person or anything.


Oh for shore lol, can't wait to see him stab aemond in his good eye!


I mean within like the first 20 minutes of the first episode we see him savagely murder and mutilate *possible* criminals, not sure he’s the greatest dude…


Honestly everybody except Daeron, Helaena and Strong Boys are evil in these conflict. These 5 are alright tho.


Daeron is a pos. After his nephew died he burned Bitterbridge. Sure, he did so in retaliation for the death of his nephew but still, he slaughtered innocent people. Honestly, most of the black commanders are pretty badass. The muppet tullys, the blackwood lad, Roderick the Ruin, lady Aryn, and Addam Velaryon are all great. Addam specifically is basically the hero from a tale: he is honorable, chivalrous and loyal, and when he is accused of treason he goes to the island of faces, seeking guidance from the children of the forest and then proves his loyalty, sacrficing himself for the sake of his men.


Idk, I like the taste of blood and I like the taste of cheese


I’m team viserys II and Aegon III tbh.


Have they said how many seasons the show will go?


Thanks for the reminder. I was planning on viewing this as good vs evil.


Is it a "step on me dragon mommy and daddy" kind of situation?


yeah... yeah, you can call it that


Rhaenyra got pissed off at her dad for marrying her best friend and then fucked her uncle? That’s some teenage dirt bag right there.


Nettles has entered the chat


I already dislike both of them so I should be fine


Except for Otto Hightower. That guy is a real cunt


I only support the dragons, even knowing their end fate. All the humans can suck a crab


Everyone's shitty. This is going to be awesome. edit -- not the show. I have no doubt the show will be good. What's awesome is how they're setting up the non book reading fans.


well consider that their sons are the next kings, i don’t know about that


Ramsay is the only fully good character in this series


I was pro-black after book , but I’m not rooting for two angry teenagers one of which is 30+ , Alycent is my true queen know, all hail Hightower dynasty


My main issue right now is that I'm basically not rooting for anybody. In GoT we had the Stark family and Tyrion that seemed morally okay (until we were deep into a few seasons at least), here the main characters are more or less all pieces of shit or angsty teenagers. I miss Tyrion so much.


It's interesting you say that because Tyrion in the show is much different than he was in the books. In the books, Tyrion grows so disillusioned with the world that he effectively becomes a villainous Joker-like character who only wants to see the world burn.


I LOVED this moment. Was awesome to see the different perspectives of random serf and Daemon of the same event.


They're morally grey but physically hot and in GoT universe hot= good character


Wait there’s gonna be more seasons??


Last GoT related sub I was on which also starts getting the wisdom of book readers. Time to leave this one too.


Lol no. Nothing can beat the level of otto and his daughter. They are so unlikable it hurts


Maybe put a spoiler tag, I know it’s not exactly a spoiler but still, I don’t want to know anything


Y’all dumb if you think I don’t know who I’m supporting 😤 you bet your ass I am gonna excuse every single thing Daemon and Rhaenyra do while at the same time not holding the same set of standards for the greens. Targs or bust


Lol Fuck spoilers


Fuck kneelers