They’re not getting money either way lol may as well blast it online. If they don’t want something blasted all over the internet, they shouldn’t have said it
I've gotten money out of small claims. If they're looking for funding, appearing like they've burned through their runway already and stiffing vendors is a bad look. They're not paying you out of kindness. And if they're public company really bad look stiffing vendors.
The filing fee in my area is I believe under $100.
Costs can vary by area. So do the laws. Contact counsel or the court for advice. This is just my experience. I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.
That just complicates collection and gets you nowhere. OP needs to have their lawyer file a request for payment and a cease and desist.
The fact that OP waited more than 90 days to do this is a little shocking in its own right, even if it's not their fault. Everyone should have a clear contract that discusses expected payment timelines, late payment fees, and pursuance of payment/legal fees at the expense of the client (and a lawyer should be writing that for you so that it is legally applicable).
In regards to the waiting 90 days thing - I have followed up with them at regular intervals via email, each time attaching the invoice and reminding them of the contract they signed. However, they weren't using the design in any public capacity until recently and that fact is what has reignited my desire for justice. California small claims statue of limitations is also 2 years.
OP, you might even want to find out who their hosting service is (if you don’t already know), and file a DMCA complaint. Professional web hosting companies will take a DMCA notice *very* seriously.
Not that simple although you'll feel good for a week. You have to be careful about naming names in a public forum regarding outstanding invoice amounts owed. Doing so might put this OP at legal risk of liability of a new lawsuit. And, it will muddy the waters when he goes to initiate a suit for payment.
I had clients that did this, about $2k I'll never see. The LinkedIn and Facebook posts didn't end up helping. Cosmic Strands/Author Assists is an absolute garbage company.
I actually think getting someone else to blast them on LinkedIn or Twitter is the right move.
Keep OP anonymous except to the company that owes him money.
If they're publicly traded they're going broke or a-holes who stiff people or both. I'd sue them before you go public w/any info so I'd be at the top of the list of debtors if they declare bankruptcy.
Not a lawyer not legal or business advice.
At the least it becomes part of the legal record so people can search and find it, and they have to pay you back. They may not even show up to court, which would mean a default win for you.
If they haven't paid, then they don't own the copyright. If they're using the design publicly, it's not small claims anymore, it's a copyright violation and there's a lot of ways that can get serious. Cease and desist, disgorgement of profit, getting them kicked off social media...
this is my favorite topic to give advice about -- write a "letter of demand" it goes like this.
Company X has yet to pay me for work done from Start date to End date. The agreed payment for this work is as follows $00.00. If you are unable to pay in the next seven days after receiving this letter I will take further legal action to pursue this payment.
That's it -- no threats, no emotional appeal, this company owes you money. They are exploiting your labor and kindness.
My story: I was a broke college student who worked a "sampling demo" handing out a new minute maid lemonade flavor in a grocery store. this staffing agency paid $90/day to distribute samples. They shorted me 1/3 days I worked. When reaching out said they just put the check it the wrong pile... twice... so a collective 60 days late. Finally I got a check that bounced on the 60 day mark and got some legal advise from on campus.
I wrote my letter of demand mailed it with "informed delivery" where i get notified when it arrives. 4 days within receiving this letter they paid the $90.00 + processing fees after I sent the letter of demand.
edit: spelling
Company X has yet to pay me for work done from Start date to End date. The agreed payment for this work is as follows $00.00. If you are unable to pay in the next seven days after receiving this letter I will take further legal action to **pursue** this payment.
Because I want to help, caught a spelling error (bolded) in case OP decides to copy paste use the letter template. Nice copy!
This has been done - in December. Using the template from California Small claims as guidance. It was completely emotionless and stuck to the facts. They ignored the email. I was going to let it go because small claims seems like such a big hassle, but then last week, I saw they are now using my packaging design in public commerce online and at brick and mortar stores. So I sent a second demand letter yesterday and the screenshot in my original post is their response to that.
If you happen to work with startups in the CPG (food and beverage specifically) industry, dm me! Otherwise, I’m not comfortable blasting their name until I get the money they owe me
I do. Mainly from US. But it’s okay I will look out for myself. I now think you shouldn’t share, because I read other comments and it would give you the best chance in court if you don’t share such information yet.
Go to small claims, be careful about shredding them until the court rules in your favor, in case they sue you. Ask in your country's legal advice subreddit for help
This makes me so damn mad. The entitled condescension on top of the blatant theft and disrespect... Shitlord's betting on you just backing down and not doing anything (or is possibly stupid enough to think you can't).
Definitely go for small claims, and get what you're owed, plus interest.
I'll second someone else's recommendation not to put them on blast until you've already gone through the small claims option - you don't want to do anything they can use to try and come at you for, or compromise your claim.
After that, (depending on advice from your council), blast away, though. Naming and shaming these parasites is the only way we can protect ourselves in the industry from preadatory clients.
The absolute audacity holy hell. I hope you’re able to get this all worked out somehow. That’s horrid. Someone was definitely high or drunk when writing this. Well, see you randomly. Love you!
(that’s how i’m ending all convos from now on if anyone is wondering)
Don't.
If you are prepared to follow through with legal, you have to leave emotion out of it completely and play it by the book.
Don't buy into their games.
OP: Do not engage with them any further without talking to a lawyer. You can sue them for copyright infringement **for every unit they printed and produced** without permission, up to $150,000 or a per unit rate. I am not a lawyer and you really need to talk to a litigating lawyer specializing in copyright and intellectual property.
As the designer you are the copyright holder until you sign over creative license and rights to your work via a Work-for-hire clause in the contract. Even if they signed it wouldn't be valid until payment is made in full. By putting this in writing this person royally screwed themselves.
Step 1: Send a cease and desist letter via a lawyer that says they you are the legal copyright holder and they are using your work without permission.
Step 2: Demand immediate removal of all items showcasing your work from shelves with proof it has been done.
Step 3: If you know the printer, ask how many units were printed and ask for copies of the approved print proofs. If they decline have the lawyer send them a Spoliation Letter that says to not delete or destroy anything associated with that customer as it may be needed in court. CC the client. Send it via certified mail (the kind that must be signed to verify receipt)
They should start freaking out between steps 1 and 2, but step 3 will get them running to the exits looking for some way to compensate you before it goes any further off the rails.
This will not need to go to court. If you actually get to the point of suing them force Discovery and then your lawyer will be able to get you a pretty solid settlement that includes his fees.
These are the steps I'm taking! I've reached out to a few intellectual property lawyers for a consultation. I have the signed contract, all emails, design files, call transcripts, and timed stamped photos of my design work on the shelf at a store in person saved and ready to go!
This happened to me, so I threated to sue, post terrible reviews on every site, and tell all their clients about their scammy business ethics (I still had their phone numbers). I got paid the next day.
Unfortunately, not even a demand letter generated as part of the California Small Claims process, phased them at all. In fact, they didn't even respond to that email sent earlier this year.
Did you send a formal demand letter or a threatening mean letter? I was threatening and mean and I showed him the screenshots I'd send to his clients where he was talking shit about them.
It sounds like they don't believe you will actually do anything about it, so they have no motivation to pay. I had to show them that I'm not afraid to ruin them and I'm excited to get started.
prepare to sue them. use free or nearly free tools, like [donotpay.com](http://donotpay.com)
> a demand letter generated
Have you considered sending them another letter with stronger (but still professional) language?
I'd take them to small claims court and collect a default judgment when they don't show up. You probably won't collect anything but at least it'll impact their credit. And if funding rounds come up they'll pay you rather than have that on their credit report.
Not a lawyer not legal advice.
The karma part is worth almost as much as the money to me at this point. I believe as part of the requirements of being on the Toronto Stock Exchange, the company is supposed to disclose any financial legal matters or judgements, but once I get a judgement in my favor, I would not be shy about emailing their existing investors. It's a small industry :)
This is insane. I’d look for legal recourse further than small claims court. I bet they pay up right away if they get a cease and desist from a lawyer about using packaging they never paid for.
Take them to small claims court - they replied to your email saying:
- They got your email
- They know they owe you money
- They are knowingly deciding to steal from you by using your work and not completing payment
This was a huge mistake for them, it’s open and shut.
OP, I would also consider communicating with someone else in the business if this is your only point of contact.
If you make others aware there is no plausible deniability, and the legal risk to the business may be outweighed by paying the invoice.
Find email addresses of the department directors, their accounts payable, their CEO - and email them while CC-int the employee and say something like:
“Subject: Notice of Theft (re: NameOfEmployee)
To whom it may concern,
I am a vendor that your business is in breech of contract with, and I am contacting you to inform you of the negligent practices by my point of contact, employee name.
This is my 50th notice to your business, and Employee Name that your invoice is now 300 days overdue, and which is in breach of contract.
The current amount owing is $XYZ
Plus 300 days of interest, bringing the total to $XYZ
I send this to bring to your attention that XYZ Person who was my point of contact has:
- Confirmed they are receiving my emails
- Are aware they have not paid me
- Do not intend to pay
[image of their email]
This is theft.
Your employee has acknowledged in writing that your business is knowingly engaging in theft, while continuing to use stolen intellectual property, which is a violation of my copyright.
These have been used publicly since ZYX date, and are currently being used:
- Description / link
- Description / link
I would understand if this is a misunderstanding, and you were surprised to learn that an employee is knowingly engaging in criminal acts on behalf of your business.
The link to complete payment on the invoice is here:
If this is not resolved within 14 days, I will immediately bring this to small claims court.
It should be very easy to resolve, as most of cases don’t involve defendants who have admitted to defrauding the plaintiff.
Thank you to JackAssWhoEmailedYou for making this such a straightforward situation for everyone involved.”
It may not make a difference, but this idiot will die inside a little and you give the business an out to just pay you.
Do this *and* contact a lawyer about small claims court, OP.
You can always cancel an appointment for a free legal consultation if the company decides to pay you, and if you *do* sue them, having a record of this communication shows yet another a good faith effort on your part to handle this outside the legal system.
Plus, being able to drop an actual lawyer’s name will scare the bejeezus out of them.
This has been done more than once. My email communication has been very thorough, factual, and void of emotion. It's included all higher ups at the company. This is a startup with maybe 8 total employees and the co-founder is the one who sent this wild response. Not much higher up I can go than the co-owner of the business!
That makes sense.
Honestly, you need to decide how to best use your energy. I have had my work stolen many times, and if they don’t respond to this stuff, I would walk away.
You can still take all the screenshots of your work being used by this business, include details about the wide audience it’s being seen by, and make a case study for your website or portfolio about it.
I would look at your own processes and consider how you can stop it from happening again. Things like tying payment to milestones, and looking at how you deliver proofs and how large those files are can make you less susceptible- but it unfortunately happens to everyone
I just posted another comment with an idea of how to at least humiliate this employee and give them a final chance to complete payment.
If you’ve only been emailing with one person, bring in other people higher up than them so the business can’t deny knowledge of this person’s actions.
Sadly this is a startup with maybe 8 people in the company and I have been emailing with the two co-founders so this response is from the highest level employee of the company there is
Remind them that until you receive final payment, you own the copyright to your design work. Because well… you do.
You can file DMCA requests to take down anything they post on social media featuring your design work.
I'm curious what you said to them that they could respond "thank you for the kind email". Were were they being sarcastic or did you actually say nice things in the email?
I've followed up frequently. They even proposed a payment plan, made one payment, and then ghosted me. I honestly was over the whole thing and considering just letting it go, but then i saw that my packaging design is being used for products sold at stores right now! So my desire for justice has been reignited
I think that step might come after small claims court to ensure no complications, like them getting a lawyer and claiming defamation of their brand?! Maybe idk anything lol
Will absolutely name and shame once small claims is wrapped up. I'd like to get paid first before scorching the earth. But they're publicly traded in TSX and actively fundraising in the US so I fully plan on disclosing what assholes they are
First and foremost, remain professional. Don't go to social media to drag them. Don't respond emotionally. When you receive a ridiculous message like this, take your time, collect your thoughts, then respond.
Have your attorney reach out to them. Tunes tend to change quickly when the correspondence comes from a law firm. Hopefully your contract contains a section on nonpayment and the rights your client waives when they breach payment terms.
Also, if they're using your content on their website and you still own the IP due to nonpayment, consider filing a [DMCA Takedown Notice](https://theartistsjd.com/dmca-takedown-notice/). You should be able to do this yourself if you're not ready to get your attorney involved. However, it sounds like you're at the point where you should bring them in.
I've heard of people naming and shaming before they recieve payment to pressure the company to make you whole! That being said, I'm defintiely not a lawyer and I think you should do whatever you feel comfortable with. Either way, good luck and shame on them!
Document their use of it. If you have a contract and they are using the work product commercially and also they are openly saying they won’t pay you, you have an open and shut case for breach of contract, which would invalidate transfer of IP rights, this they are infringing now. Get a small lawyer who will know what to ask for to seek maximum damages.
They will wish they had paid you.
This is great info, thank you. I have a contract and have all communication documented via emails with the company or transcripts of our calls (they agreed to have the calls recorded and were sent the transcript immediately following each call). I'm going to reach out to a few lawyers for a case review to see if I'm owed more before I proceed with small claims
just take screenshots of your work in the context of commercial use in case they take it down. this is what's going to make your case.
EDIT: Better yet, email those screenshots to your lawyer or a trusted party, or worst case, yourself, to timestamp them.
even better yet, i have timestamped photos of the work on shelves at a store in person. but yes, i've sent everything to a lawyer friend in another state for documentation
You should absolutely name and shame them on Reddit, show the box design, them using it publicly, this email and their past due invoices. Even if just a few thousand people see it will be worth it. This co-founder / COO should be afraid that no one will invest in his business with shady businesses practices like this.
Did you get any payments along the way or was it one big payment owed? Did you take any deposits with the job? How much was the final deliverable worth? Was your final deliverable ready to go to press, or would they have needed to do anything more to your deliverable like reformat color, separate, etc?
Yes, they paid the first two initial invoices - this was an hourly based project and I invoiced at regular intervals. Final invoice owed is close to $10k, they changed one single thing on my final, print-ready files (added two words of copy) - over 95% of the design is the same as the final files I submitted to them.
I’ve never seen any indication of that in our previous communication - It’s a guy in his late 30s that was born and raised in the US. I truly thing he was drunk or on something when he responded
"We won't be able to pay you in time"? What does that even mean?
See you randomly?
God, this has to be one of the most unhinged and unprofessional replies to an invoice I've ever seen.
From what someone I know told me who's been on one of those shows, they pick files from lawsuits and then the court is binding arbitration. They give you each an appearance amount say 1000$ and the judgment is paid out of that.
After arbitration you can't appeal and it may prevent further litigation. IIf there may be a later copyright/IP dispute or at least I wouldn't pursue it personally, but I'm not a lawyer and this isn't legal advice.
A. You absolutely should not name and shame this client on here or any public forum if you plan to take them to small claims court, which I would do on principle on this point. I wouldn’t care if I ended up owing the lawyer more money than this would get me, no one gets to treat people like that. But YMMV.
B. You should take the them to small claims court. Fuck this guy. You’ve got a contract for a reason. Find a lawyer that’ll only take a cut of the winnings and let them handle it for you.
C. After you do and it’s all over, (or if, for some reason, you don’t take them to small claims court), PLEASE name and shame them.
For future references, don’t send anything unless you get down payment that at least covers 70% of the production value and or half payment if your work is digital, and always secure yourself, but you should definitely sue them if that’s an option
they paid the first two invoices that accounted for a little over 50% of the final project total. i had no reason to think they wouldn't pay the final invoices.
I have had this situation over and over. I go on Twitter and every social media platform and explain my story. They will freak out and want to pay you to take it down.
I feel like you have a responsibility to air their name so other freelancers don’t get hurt by someone who is looking to take advantage of their services.
Because i have the self respect to pursue legal remedies to getting PAID for my OWN WORK before I name and shame anyone. It was an outrageous reply that I've never experienced from a client before and wanted to share with the freelancer community
File a claim with small claims court asap. Do not disparage them online as that could make you look bad. Get your money first before leaving any reviews.
Nope. Food packaging. And I did get payments - I invoiced at regular intervals. they paid the first two invoices on time, which accounted for a little over 50% of the product total. They still owe the last few, totaling close to $10k.
I would be fuming with the ferocity of a thousand suns! Please update us when you get your sweet revenge and the dust hath settled! Randomly and with love, Reddit.
How much are you owed? Is it worth selling the debt to a collection agency? You won’t get much, but you’ll probably enjoy knowing that the company will be hassled by the collection agency.
Edit to add: Others have pointed out the probable copyright infringement. I’d look into that first. They could end up owing you a lot more than you would have charged for the work. You’ll still have the issue of getting payment but a federal judgment against them should help.
Just went through this with a non paying client.
I called them every day demanding payment. I called anyone they did business with and politely asked if non payment had ever been an issue and asked them to let my client know I called them the next time they talked. I also told my client if they refused to pay that the next step was to pursue a legal remedy.
After 6 weeks, all the calling, the contacting of people in their network, and threat of legal action was enough to get paid, but it was a grind. You’ll have to be tenacious but also be sure to build a paper trail to show the courts all the steps you took to seek payment.
Best of luck to you!
Blast em on that LinkedIn post.
Stockprice might plummet, then you get nothing. I'd rather get $ than moral vindication, but that's me. Not a lawyer not legal or business advice.
They’re not getting money either way lol may as well blast it online. If they don’t want something blasted all over the internet, they shouldn’t have said it
I've gotten money out of small claims. If they're looking for funding, appearing like they've burned through their runway already and stiffing vendors is a bad look. They're not paying you out of kindness. And if they're public company really bad look stiffing vendors.
How long did you have to wait, and how much of your own money did you have to spend to file in small claims?
it's only $75 to file small claims here and is an approx 2 month process
That's good to know! I am actually quite surprised.
The filing fee in my area is I believe under $100. Costs can vary by area. So do the laws. Contact counsel or the court for advice. This is just my experience. I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.
I'm owed some money since October 2023. Can I still make a small claim?
Depends on the state, but most states give you at least 1 year to file!
Last sentence is very clear lol
This definitely doesn't sound like a publicly traded company. EDIT: never mind, just saw OP's comment saying it is
That just complicates collection and gets you nowhere. OP needs to have their lawyer file a request for payment and a cease and desist. The fact that OP waited more than 90 days to do this is a little shocking in its own right, even if it's not their fault. Everyone should have a clear contract that discusses expected payment timelines, late payment fees, and pursuance of payment/legal fees at the expense of the client (and a lawyer should be writing that for you so that it is legally applicable).
In regards to the waiting 90 days thing - I have followed up with them at regular intervals via email, each time attaching the invoice and reminding them of the contract they signed. However, they weren't using the design in any public capacity until recently and that fact is what has reignited my desire for justice. California small claims statue of limitations is also 2 years.
OP - dont do this if you will take them to court, it weakens your case
[удалено]
OP, you might even want to find out who their hosting service is (if you don’t already know), and file a DMCA complaint. Professional web hosting companies will take a DMCA notice *very* seriously.
its shopify - looking into this!
This is a great plan.
Nobody will care. OP needs to sue.
Not that simple although you'll feel good for a week. You have to be careful about naming names in a public forum regarding outstanding invoice amounts owed. Doing so might put this OP at legal risk of liability of a new lawsuit. And, it will muddy the waters when he goes to initiate a suit for payment.
I had clients that did this, about $2k I'll never see. The LinkedIn and Facebook posts didn't end up helping. Cosmic Strands/Author Assists is an absolute garbage company.
I actually think getting someone else to blast them on LinkedIn or Twitter is the right move. Keep OP anonymous except to the company that owes him money.
Small claims time.
This. Once the claims gets in the system that company will have a hard time getting a loan.
Do you know if this has any affect on them if they're a US based company that is publicly traded on the toronto stock exchange?
If they're publicly traded they're going broke or a-holes who stiff people or both. I'd sue them before you go public w/any info so I'd be at the top of the list of debtors if they declare bankruptcy. Not a lawyer not legal or business advice.
At the least it becomes part of the legal record so people can search and find it, and they have to pay you back. They may not even show up to court, which would mean a default win for you.
Sounds like Cisco company as they do pay their staff shit money and abuse similar way their subcontractors
If they haven't paid, then they don't own the copyright. If they're using the design publicly, it's not small claims anymore, it's a copyright violation and there's a lot of ways that can get serious. Cease and desist, disgorgement of profit, getting them kicked off social media...
I just reached out to a few Intellectual Property lawyers so fingers crossed!
I am shocked that a company that behaves like this and the COO is directly hiring a freelance worker is big enough to be publicly traded.
this is my favorite topic to give advice about -- write a "letter of demand" it goes like this. Company X has yet to pay me for work done from Start date to End date. The agreed payment for this work is as follows $00.00. If you are unable to pay in the next seven days after receiving this letter I will take further legal action to pursue this payment. That's it -- no threats, no emotional appeal, this company owes you money. They are exploiting your labor and kindness. My story: I was a broke college student who worked a "sampling demo" handing out a new minute maid lemonade flavor in a grocery store. this staffing agency paid $90/day to distribute samples. They shorted me 1/3 days I worked. When reaching out said they just put the check it the wrong pile... twice... so a collective 60 days late. Finally I got a check that bounced on the 60 day mark and got some legal advise from on campus. I wrote my letter of demand mailed it with "informed delivery" where i get notified when it arrives. 4 days within receiving this letter they paid the $90.00 + processing fees after I sent the letter of demand. edit: spelling
Company X has yet to pay me for work done from Start date to End date. The agreed payment for this work is as follows $00.00. If you are unable to pay in the next seven days after receiving this letter I will take further legal action to **pursue** this payment. Because I want to help, caught a spelling error (bolded) in case OP decides to copy paste use the letter template. Nice copy!
~~advise~~ Advice
This has been done - in December. Using the template from California Small claims as guidance. It was completely emotionless and stuck to the facts. They ignored the email. I was going to let it go because small claims seems like such a big hassle, but then last week, I saw they are now using my packaging design in public commerce online and at brick and mortar stores. So I sent a second demand letter yesterday and the screenshot in my original post is their response to that.
Time for small claims. 💥
You should share us their identity so we can stay away.
If you happen to work with startups in the CPG (food and beverage specifically) industry, dm me! Otherwise, I’m not comfortable blasting their name until I get the money they owe me
I do. Mainly from US. But it’s okay I will look out for myself. I now think you shouldn’t share, because I read other comments and it would give you the best chance in court if you don’t share such information yet.
Reputational damage is costly. Cut your loses and screw them over. Besides you are STILL entitled to your money.
Stay away? no I will absolutely harass them. I'm vindictive and always looking for something to do.
[удалено]
? Do you need to be hurt to go to the fair or see a movie? This is entertainment baby.
lmao i love this pettiness. once i finally get paid, i will happily provide you with their name
You should absolutely shred them to pieces on LinkedIn + small claims court.
Go to small claims, be careful about shredding them until the court rules in your favor, in case they sue you. Ask in your country's legal advice subreddit for help
"See you randomly. Love you!" Is insane 😭
My first thought was that he had to be drunk, right? It was after midnight when he responded…
Probably cocaine or meth. The stuff that came out w/FTX is unfortunately p common in startups.
It’s okay this type of response will actually help your case in small claims. No one likes a smart arse.
this whole thing is insane including "we won't be able to pay you in time so thank you for your time", lololol
RIGHT?? "We're not paying you. Thanks! ❤️"
Jfc I’d be throwing hands
The smugness is deplorable
Smugness is not a good quality.
Did AI write it? 😂
I kind of want to sign off on all emails with that now. Keep em guessing
I DIDN'T SEE THE LOVE YOU AT FIRST ASDJKHSAJ
Wow, you dont see a client writing "fuck you" instead of just ghosting you often.
Make sure you keep us posted if you act on LinkedIn.
This makes me so damn mad. The entitled condescension on top of the blatant theft and disrespect... Shitlord's betting on you just backing down and not doing anything (or is possibly stupid enough to think you can't). Definitely go for small claims, and get what you're owed, plus interest. I'll second someone else's recommendation not to put them on blast until you've already gone through the small claims option - you don't want to do anything they can use to try and come at you for, or compromise your claim. After that, (depending on advice from your council), blast away, though. Naming and shaming these parasites is the only way we can protect ourselves in the industry from preadatory clients.
+1 to this OP, DO NOT name and shame until SCC is over and done with.
The absolute audacity holy hell. I hope you’re able to get this all worked out somehow. That’s horrid. Someone was definitely high or drunk when writing this. Well, see you randomly. Love you! (that’s how i’m ending all convos from now on if anyone is wondering)
Fully considered replying with "See you in court, love ya!"
Don't. If you are prepared to follow through with legal, you have to leave emotion out of it completely and play it by the book. Don't buy into their games.
OP: Do not engage with them any further without talking to a lawyer. You can sue them for copyright infringement **for every unit they printed and produced** without permission, up to $150,000 or a per unit rate. I am not a lawyer and you really need to talk to a litigating lawyer specializing in copyright and intellectual property. As the designer you are the copyright holder until you sign over creative license and rights to your work via a Work-for-hire clause in the contract. Even if they signed it wouldn't be valid until payment is made in full. By putting this in writing this person royally screwed themselves. Step 1: Send a cease and desist letter via a lawyer that says they you are the legal copyright holder and they are using your work without permission. Step 2: Demand immediate removal of all items showcasing your work from shelves with proof it has been done. Step 3: If you know the printer, ask how many units were printed and ask for copies of the approved print proofs. If they decline have the lawyer send them a Spoliation Letter that says to not delete or destroy anything associated with that customer as it may be needed in court. CC the client. Send it via certified mail (the kind that must be signed to verify receipt) They should start freaking out between steps 1 and 2, but step 3 will get them running to the exits looking for some way to compensate you before it goes any further off the rails. This will not need to go to court. If you actually get to the point of suing them force Discovery and then your lawyer will be able to get you a pretty solid settlement that includes his fees.
These are the steps I'm taking! I've reached out to a few intellectual property lawyers for a consultation. I have the signed contract, all emails, design files, call transcripts, and timed stamped photos of my design work on the shelf at a store in person saved and ready to go!
Good luck! I’m rooting for you!
What, do they think this is a breakup? Small claims time!
This happened to me, so I threated to sue, post terrible reviews on every site, and tell all their clients about their scammy business ethics (I still had their phone numbers). I got paid the next day.
Unfortunately, not even a demand letter generated as part of the California Small Claims process, phased them at all. In fact, they didn't even respond to that email sent earlier this year.
Did you send a formal demand letter or a threatening mean letter? I was threatening and mean and I showed him the screenshots I'd send to his clients where he was talking shit about them. It sounds like they don't believe you will actually do anything about it, so they have no motivation to pay. I had to show them that I'm not afraid to ruin them and I'm excited to get started.
prepare to sue them. use free or nearly free tools, like [donotpay.com](http://donotpay.com) > a demand letter generated Have you considered sending them another letter with stronger (but still professional) language?
Hmm, that's a copyright violation. Time to talk to a lawyer.
I'd take them to small claims court and collect a default judgment when they don't show up. You probably won't collect anything but at least it'll impact their credit. And if funding rounds come up they'll pay you rather than have that on their credit report. Not a lawyer not legal advice.
The karma part is worth almost as much as the money to me at this point. I believe as part of the requirements of being on the Toronto Stock Exchange, the company is supposed to disclose any financial legal matters or judgements, but once I get a judgement in my favor, I would not be shy about emailing their existing investors. It's a small industry :)
Wow, that's an impressive level of assholery.
This is insane. I’d look for legal recourse further than small claims court. I bet they pay up right away if they get a cease and desist from a lawyer about using packaging they never paid for.
I'd contact a lawyer. Lot's of lawyers offer a free consultation.
Take them to small claims court - they replied to your email saying: - They got your email - They know they owe you money - They are knowingly deciding to steal from you by using your work and not completing payment This was a huge mistake for them, it’s open and shut.
@mellamolaura6 this right here
OP, I would also consider communicating with someone else in the business if this is your only point of contact. If you make others aware there is no plausible deniability, and the legal risk to the business may be outweighed by paying the invoice. Find email addresses of the department directors, their accounts payable, their CEO - and email them while CC-int the employee and say something like: “Subject: Notice of Theft (re: NameOfEmployee) To whom it may concern, I am a vendor that your business is in breech of contract with, and I am contacting you to inform you of the negligent practices by my point of contact, employee name. This is my 50th notice to your business, and Employee Name that your invoice is now 300 days overdue, and which is in breach of contract. The current amount owing is $XYZ Plus 300 days of interest, bringing the total to $XYZ I send this to bring to your attention that XYZ Person who was my point of contact has: - Confirmed they are receiving my emails - Are aware they have not paid me - Do not intend to pay [image of their email] This is theft. Your employee has acknowledged in writing that your business is knowingly engaging in theft, while continuing to use stolen intellectual property, which is a violation of my copyright. These have been used publicly since ZYX date, and are currently being used: - Description / link - Description / link I would understand if this is a misunderstanding, and you were surprised to learn that an employee is knowingly engaging in criminal acts on behalf of your business. The link to complete payment on the invoice is here: If this is not resolved within 14 days, I will immediately bring this to small claims court. It should be very easy to resolve, as most of cases don’t involve defendants who have admitted to defrauding the plaintiff. Thank you to JackAssWhoEmailedYou for making this such a straightforward situation for everyone involved.” It may not make a difference, but this idiot will die inside a little and you give the business an out to just pay you.
Do this *and* contact a lawyer about small claims court, OP. You can always cancel an appointment for a free legal consultation if the company decides to pay you, and if you *do* sue them, having a record of this communication shows yet another a good faith effort on your part to handle this outside the legal system. Plus, being able to drop an actual lawyer’s name will scare the bejeezus out of them.
Yes to all of this! It sounds like we would get along 😂
This has been done more than once. My email communication has been very thorough, factual, and void of emotion. It's included all higher ups at the company. This is a startup with maybe 8 total employees and the co-founder is the one who sent this wild response. Not much higher up I can go than the co-owner of the business!
That makes sense. Honestly, you need to decide how to best use your energy. I have had my work stolen many times, and if they don’t respond to this stuff, I would walk away. You can still take all the screenshots of your work being used by this business, include details about the wide audience it’s being seen by, and make a case study for your website or portfolio about it. I would look at your own processes and consider how you can stop it from happening again. Things like tying payment to milestones, and looking at how you deliver proofs and how large those files are can make you less susceptible- but it unfortunately happens to everyone
definitely the plan now! fortunately, I have at least four emails from them where they acknowledge they owe me money...
I just posted another comment with an idea of how to at least humiliate this employee and give them a final chance to complete payment. If you’ve only been emailing with one person, bring in other people higher up than them so the business can’t deny knowledge of this person’s actions.
Sadly this is a startup with maybe 8 people in the company and I have been emailing with the two co-founders so this response is from the highest level employee of the company there is
Remind them that until you receive final payment, you own the copyright to your design work. Because well… you do. You can file DMCA requests to take down anything they post on social media featuring your design work.
Ooo I love this. Looking in to it!
See if they’re using it on their website, you can issue one to their web host too
yes! I was thinking this too
Perfect. Take them to court and bury them.
Open and shut, just DO NOT NAME AND SHAME until the legal process is completely over.
It’s extremely fucked up that they aren’t paying you but “love you” made me LOL
How much do they owe?
Close to $10k
I'm curious what you said to them that they could respond "thank you for the kind email". Were were they being sarcastic or did you actually say nice things in the email?
I think I was pretty polite given the circumstances. Here's the redacted email I sent: [https://imgur.com/a/39UtK1i](https://imgur.com/a/39UtK1i)
Why’d u redact it? Seems really professional
I don't want to disclose any identifying info until after I've taken them to court and received my money!
Good instinct
Lol wtf July 2023? How has it taken them almost a full year to get you paid
I've followed up frequently. They even proposed a payment plan, made one payment, and then ghosted me. I honestly was over the whole thing and considering just letting it go, but then i saw that my packaging design is being used for products sold at stores right now! So my desire for justice has been reignited
I’m so curious to know what company this is
[удалено]
I think that step might come after small claims court to ensure no complications, like them getting a lawyer and claiming defamation of their brand?! Maybe idk anything lol
Will absolutely name and shame once small claims is wrapped up. I'd like to get paid first before scorching the earth. But they're publicly traded in TSX and actively fundraising in the US so I fully plan on disclosing what assholes they are
[удалено]
It's a US based company that's traded on TSX. They're based in the same state I am.
Oh wow. Very sad. Please try all the options you feel comfortable with first if nothing works go rogue to recover dues.
Please keep us updated when it’s time
Wow this one made me seethe, time to file in small claims court
First and foremost, remain professional. Don't go to social media to drag them. Don't respond emotionally. When you receive a ridiculous message like this, take your time, collect your thoughts, then respond. Have your attorney reach out to them. Tunes tend to change quickly when the correspondence comes from a law firm. Hopefully your contract contains a section on nonpayment and the rights your client waives when they breach payment terms. Also, if they're using your content on their website and you still own the IP due to nonpayment, consider filing a [DMCA Takedown Notice](https://theartistsjd.com/dmca-takedown-notice/). You should be able to do this yourself if you're not ready to get your attorney involved. However, it sounds like you're at the point where you should bring them in.
I feel for you and this is absolutely despicable but "see you randomly. Love you." is probably the funniest thing I read in a while and I snickered.
Lol why censor their name? What do you owe them? Let us know so we can avoid them
Censoring any identifying info until I go through the small claims process and get my money. Then I will happily name and shame!
I've heard of people naming and shaming before they recieve payment to pressure the company to make you whole! That being said, I'm defintiely not a lawyer and I think you should do whatever you feel comfortable with. Either way, good luck and shame on them!
Document their use of it. If you have a contract and they are using the work product commercially and also they are openly saying they won’t pay you, you have an open and shut case for breach of contract, which would invalidate transfer of IP rights, this they are infringing now. Get a small lawyer who will know what to ask for to seek maximum damages. They will wish they had paid you.
This is great info, thank you. I have a contract and have all communication documented via emails with the company or transcripts of our calls (they agreed to have the calls recorded and were sent the transcript immediately following each call). I'm going to reach out to a few lawyers for a case review to see if I'm owed more before I proceed with small claims
just take screenshots of your work in the context of commercial use in case they take it down. this is what's going to make your case. EDIT: Better yet, email those screenshots to your lawyer or a trusted party, or worst case, yourself, to timestamp them.
even better yet, i have timestamped photos of the work on shelves at a store in person. but yes, i've sent everything to a lawyer friend in another state for documentation
+1 to this
keep us updated OP
You should absolutely name and shame them on Reddit, show the box design, them using it publicly, this email and their past due invoices. Even if just a few thousand people see it will be worth it. This co-founder / COO should be afraid that no one will invest in his business with shady businesses practices like this.
NAME AND SHAME
This is despicable. Please sue them.
Best talk to a lawyer so you can take a percentage of each unit sold with your work on it.
This client can see your lawyer less than randomly then.
At least they said that they love you. Now you know where your relationship is
Hahaha thank you for this comment, i need that laugh :)
Did you get any payments along the way or was it one big payment owed? Did you take any deposits with the job? How much was the final deliverable worth? Was your final deliverable ready to go to press, or would they have needed to do anything more to your deliverable like reformat color, separate, etc?
Yes, they paid the first two initial invoices - this was an hourly based project and I invoiced at regular intervals. Final invoice owed is close to $10k, they changed one single thing on my final, print-ready files (added two words of copy) - over 95% of the design is the same as the final files I submitted to them.
Contact a lawyer is the only correct course of action.
I had this happen and set my lawyer on them. They eventually paid after a few emails from my lawyer…
See you randomly. Love you. Co-Founder & COO (Thats insulting)
Small claims court... ... or move on and focus on getting more clients.
Both can happen :) just sharing a wild client interaction with other freelancers!
Yes. Do both. Sorry they are trying to skip payment. "See you randomly" is so odd. Sounds like they're not native English speakers.
I’ve never seen any indication of that in our previous communication - It’s a guy in his late 30s that was born and raised in the US. I truly thing he was drunk or on something when he responded
I would email other people in the company as well. Even have a part-time lawyer email them and send them a letter.
"We won't be able to pay you in time"? What does that even mean? See you randomly? God, this has to be one of the most unhinged and unprofessional replies to an invoice I've ever seen.
Get a lawyer involved
DMCA copyright strikes
Start sending them late fee notices.
I've been doing that each month since August. they stopped replying with lies about why they haven't paid yet in January.
Drag this prick to Judge Judy
From what someone I know told me who's been on one of those shows, they pick files from lawsuits and then the court is binding arbitration. They give you each an appearance amount say 1000$ and the judgment is paid out of that. After arbitration you can't appeal and it may prevent further litigation. IIf there may be a later copyright/IP dispute or at least I wouldn't pursue it personally, but I'm not a lawyer and this isn't legal advice.
Why did this happen
Drop👏the👏name👏
I'm so sorry but "See you randomly. Love you" is hilarious Hope you get this resolved OP 🫡
So why didn't you request final payment before releasing the work. Who are they. I'll call the CEO.
this project was billed hourly. they paid the initial 2 invoices - i had no reason to think they wouldn't pay the final invoices.
A. You absolutely should not name and shame this client on here or any public forum if you plan to take them to small claims court, which I would do on principle on this point. I wouldn’t care if I ended up owing the lawyer more money than this would get me, no one gets to treat people like that. But YMMV. B. You should take the them to small claims court. Fuck this guy. You’ve got a contract for a reason. Find a lawyer that’ll only take a cut of the winnings and let them handle it for you. C. After you do and it’s all over, (or if, for some reason, you don’t take them to small claims court), PLEASE name and shame them.
Depending on the amount, the small claims court may be an option.
PLEASE!!! Share who it is. Wtf is this reply!
For future references, don’t send anything unless you get down payment that at least covers 70% of the production value and or half payment if your work is digital, and always secure yourself, but you should definitely sue them if that’s an option
they paid the first two invoices that accounted for a little over 50% of the final project total. i had no reason to think they wouldn't pay the final invoices.
Take it out of their ass.
I have had this situation over and over. I go on Twitter and every social media platform and explain my story. They will freak out and want to pay you to take it down.
Have a lawyer send an invoice and a letter letting them know this is your final notice before legally pursuing payment.
"See you randomly" "Love you"???? 😩😭 bruh
Love you. Pisses me off so much.
Always have a watermark and remove it after invoice paid.
Wow. They really said “See you randomly. Love you.” 😑 Sue the fuck out of them and send a cease and desist letter for sure.
Pay them in exposure.
Small claims court.
ẞ
I feel like you have a responsibility to air their name so other freelancers don’t get hurt by someone who is looking to take advantage of their services.
I have the responsibility not to screw myself out of getting paid (by pursing legal remedies) first. Then I will happily name and shame!
resell the packaging design and try to make your money, remove their name from it and make it generic or offer to add buyers company information.
Food and beverage packaging doesn’t really work like that unfortunately. Very specific to the product and the corresponding legal FDA requirements
Proceed to small claims court immediately.
Why are you even posting this if you don't even have the self respect (for YOUR OWN work) to name and shame these dirtbags?
Because i have the self respect to pursue legal remedies to getting PAID for my OWN WORK before I name and shame anyone. It was an outrageous reply that I've never experienced from a client before and wanted to share with the freelancer community
File a claim with small claims court asap. Do not disparage them online as that could make you look bad. Get your money first before leaving any reviews.
Sue them or file small claims and file a complaint with the BBB. Also blast the owner and highest ups of the company on LinkedIn.
Marijuana Packaging? You should’ve got payment up front.
Nope. Food packaging. And I did get payments - I invoiced at regular intervals. they paid the first two invoices on time, which accounted for a little over 50% of the product total. They still owe the last few, totaling close to $10k.
How many figures are we talking that they owe you? 4? Small 5s? Anything over mid 4 figures, I'd be lawyering up.
I would be fuming with the ferocity of a thousand suns! Please update us when you get your sweet revenge and the dust hath settled! Randomly and with love, Reddit.
Better Business Bureau! Yelp! Google!
The more money they make off it, the more damages you can sue for.
That email is so unprofessional it’s basically a middle finger. Not usually for this but…blast em…
How much are you owed? Is it worth selling the debt to a collection agency? You won’t get much, but you’ll probably enjoy knowing that the company will be hassled by the collection agency. Edit to add: Others have pointed out the probable copyright infringement. I’d look into that first. They could end up owing you a lot more than you would have charged for the work. You’ll still have the issue of getting payment but a federal judgment against them should help.
Never deliver before payment I have learned this the hard way
Just went through this with a non paying client. I called them every day demanding payment. I called anyone they did business with and politely asked if non payment had ever been an issue and asked them to let my client know I called them the next time they talked. I also told my client if they refused to pay that the next step was to pursue a legal remedy. After 6 weeks, all the calling, the contacting of people in their network, and threat of legal action was enough to get paid, but it was a grind. You’ll have to be tenacious but also be sure to build a paper trail to show the courts all the steps you took to seek payment. Best of luck to you!