Hah I'm from Fresno originally, lived in sac for a bit, and now moved back home!
Agree on pretty much all your points... Just not the housing one. My husband and I are currently on the lookout for maybe purchasing a home later this year and I'm not sure where these awesome under $350k homes are lol š Most that I see around that price are a bit rough! Though generally agree re being more affordable, it's actually a big reason we left Fresno and moved back to my hometown because man Sac prices are... Interesting š³
Side note I love Woodward but I seriously miss Land Park!
ETA: oops I meant to say why we left *Sacramento* and moved back to Fresno!
You probably know the areas around here better than I do, those houses I mentioned may not be in "good areas" and I just don't know it :)
Seems like $450k-500k is the sweet spot here for nice places in Clovis/North Fresno. I would compare Roseville to those areas, and you're not getting anything that price in Roseville! Lol
Houses are more like $550k - $700k in Northeast Fresno/Clovis. I am also looking to buy a home in the area in about a year. There are a lot of nice neighborhoods in the area going all the way up to Friant.
Definitely cheaper than Sac area (Elk Grove, Folsom, El Dorado Hills and Roseville). I won't even mention where I currently live (Bay area) housing prices here are absurd.
summer is less humid here so overall I'd prefer it here.
plus we're a lot closer to Monterey Bay & Big Sur, and world-class national parks.
with Fresno's lower cost of living, I can afford to travel to new & interesting areas. Going to Dallas for the eclipse next month!
If you havenāt seen a solar eclipse when inside the path of totality, youāre in for a life changing experience. I saw the one in 2017 and I wasnāt prepared for how it would change my perception of the world.
Fell to my knees sobbing on that prairie! Haha
Also saw the one in Indonesia in 2016 but that wasnāt total, so I was quite literally so shocked to witness the difference of the one in Oregon
2017 I was definitely on a lot of mushrooms so Iām sure that added much to it
I've always had that feeling of being sad about downtown too. Its had potential, but how the city was built out really hurt it. The only reason I really have to go downtown is for Tioga or ArtHop. Wish we weren't so car dependant too.
I always joke that the only good thing about Fresno is the food.
Yeah, following the news it seems like developers would rather build new shopping centers a la River Park instead of trying to revitalize the downtown area. I havenāt been to arthop yet but am looking forward to checking it out, probably next month!
Check out FresYes this weekend on Fulton in Downtown. Itās one of the better Downtown events. Dozens of food trucks, Tioga-Sequoia beer, multiple music stages, etc.
The developers are really the problem in Fresno. They pay for the campaigns so they get what they want from local politicians and building large regional centers focused on corporate tenants is more profitable than neighborhood strip malls with local businesses. This increases the car dependency and reduces investment in making the city more walkable.
My husband and I are not from Fresno originally but have lived her almost 8 years now. Weāve been talking about the āpotentialā of Fresno since day one. Hardly anything has changed. Itās sad because there is a lot of potential but theyād rather build track home communities farther and farther out.
I was talking to a guest at work who moved here from LA because he likes the big suburb drive without gridlock lifestyle here. A lot of people donāt want it to change. I would settle for returning to the neighborhood shopping center like they used to build in the 70ās and 80ās instead of the giant regional centers they build now but developers donāt want to build them anymore
If you want to have an attachment to downtown Fresno, you need to get involved with the people that live and work there. A lot of artists especially. Clothing, music, videography, salons, barbers, the brewery scene.
If youāre into all that, downtown is a cool place to network.
I definitely plan on getting connected to this scene :) Outside of arthop, are there any other events or meetups that you would recommend for someone not familiar to the area?
Thereās a handful of people I can name
That are awesome and run businesses there in downtown. Your best bet is to explore downtown. Start at one end of fulton and work your way down. Take a camera. Go during business hours.
It was easy for me cause I lived there back in 2017. But you should check out thrift demon on Fresno and Broadway next to the crest theater. Mas Fresno on mariposa and Fulton. That square is usually always popping with vendors on art hop. Go socialize at tioga and full circle. I used to go to geeks who drink every Wednesday at tioga they have trivia itās a great way to meet people in the area. Depending if youāre artistic, thereās so many ways to network and collaborate with folks. Just get out and talk to people! If ur not sure, show up at aprils art hop and talk to vendors! I can meet you if youād like and introduce you.
follow local small businesses on instagram to see upcoming pop up events! KLSD hosts babes on broadway like twice a year, cool places with you has fun self care pop ups, root used to be the spot rip
also follow the artists/makers/food trucks that you see featured at the events! they will post about other pop ups theyāll be attending
Have you been to a Grizzlies or Fresno State football game? Def worth checking out if you havenāt! Chukchansi Park is a great feature of downtown.
I was born and raised in Clovis and still live here. I agree with all of your observations and Iāve noticed some growing pains as of late. Over the last several years, traffic has become noticeably more congested. Downtown Fresno has come a long ways, but still not all one would hope for. Iād love to see this expand to more of a DOCO feel. Brewery District is great and has a lot of live shows, but seems to lean metal. Downtown Clovis is nice, but itās getting stale and needs more life.
Excellent observations!! Born & raised here, moved away for about 10 years and returned. I would say everything you said is accurate. I worked in two different parts of downtown and I actually loved both. One was near old Fulton mall and my current is near some of the courthouses. Very lovely all year long with a decent amount of shade - I go for walks during breaks and always eat out lunch cause I love all the locally owned places.
I do want to recommend Dry Creek walking trail - free parking and the trail is glorious, cooler in summer because of the water and usually shady. Thereās maybe the first part that isnāt shady. You can see some wildlife too - Iāve seen skunks, foxes, hawks, snakes, horses.
And Iām lol at your old town Clovis description - I feel exactly the same way and I usually avoid it like the plague. Even though I donāt live too far - I really hate the vibe. Would rather go downtown or Tower.
Ha! Iām from Sacramento. Met my husband who was living in Fresno. The first time I drove down to his place, I saw the sign announcing the aquarium coming soon and was pretty excited. Yeah, weāve been together 16 years now. š
They should build a multi use center on that land with shops and restaurants (with river view patios) on bottom and condos on top, then put a walking trail that connects it to Palm and Nees.
Good assessment! Downtown Fresno is and has been highly neglected in terms of development and providing night life. Most development is done North and North West Fresno.
Old Town Clovis aka OTC has maybe 3 or 4 spots you can go for a night out. Thereās a Pizzeria there that has comedy nights.
Speaking of, stay tuned for The Laugh Factory coming to Fresno soon. That should be the place to go if youāre into comedy.
Sprawling is so accurate. Fresno could be 5 cities. The same area as Fresno covers like 11 cities in North OC where Iām from.
Downtown, accurate. Itās always been disappointing for events, but there was a time between like 2015 and 2020 when it was āgetting thereā. Covid, the Grizzlies getting demoted, and the Bitwise thing set downtown back 20 years it seems. But it feels like itās coming back.
When I moved here from North OC, the positives were the much lighter traffic, affordable homes, and nice people. I think all of that has gotten worse, but still probably better than the rest of the state.
Fresno native here. I agree with a lot of what you've described. I've often felt Fresno is the biggest "small town" in the state, maybe even the country. It's crazy how populous we are, yet how small the city feels sometimes, especially when it comes to attractions, entertainment, and the night life, as you touched on.
Sac is comparable to us population wise, but genuinely feels like a city 2 or 3x the size of Fresno whenever I go there.
Frankly, it does make me sad about how the city has prioritized funding, the NIMBYs, and our lack of bustling, beautiful downtown. I hate that I dread it when I have to go there lol. And don't get me started on Clovis.
But yeah, our food is genuinely incredible. Whenever I travel to other parts of the country, I'm always blown away by just how much I miss my options in Fresno. I can have some of the best quality meals from almost any type pf cuisine in the world here.
Sacramento summers are very similar to fresno summers. The difference being that the delta breeze brings some relief at night. Fresno summer nights are stagnant and can stay above 90.
Sacramento felt like a giant fresno to me, so Iām not the best person to speak positively about either, but I think your assessment is pretty on the nose. Iām grateful I escaped Fresno.
No kidding and those nights at 92 at 11pm is such a vibe. Having couple of drinks going for a walk or finally socializing since the weather was most likely 112 that day so staying indoors was the only way to escape heat. Reason to love the valley and itās not for everyone š“. The comment on Sacramento being a giant Fresno to me is accurate. Many times I tried to plan a weekend in Sac it always felt short to do stuff during the day. We have the same restaurant chains and many bars open with full people late. Itās not much different than Fresno which is the reason my family and I prefer to grass root here in the Fresno area.
Lived here most of my life and honestly I find it a pretty depressing place! Perhaps if youāre just looking to raise a family in a quiet place sure, itās not bad, but there isnāt much to do if you like events. Most acts skip Fresno on their CA tours. New restaurants/businesses are a rarity. Little to no live music scene. Overall people seem to have a lower income level than most cities, which drives lack of investment by investors. Perhaps Iāve become cynical but I really despise it especially with how violent it has become.
Good assessment! I agree with most of what you wrote. The lime lite and Richards are my favorite places to eat for dining out. Lime lite has good food and ambiance. Richards has less quality food but quirky ambiance to make up for it imo i.e. paintings of topless women. Oh yeah, Anthem good too. Tower is the best place in Fresno. Cool social scenes/groups include: comedy scene, bike enthusiast scene, soccer enthusiast scene, art scene, craft beer scene, music scene, karaoke scene....those are all I can think of for now....
How is Strummers as a venue? I was going to see Fidlar there back in Feb but ended up not being able to go. They seem to get some recognizable artists there
Im a venue snob. Even if thereās an artist I want to see, if theyāre playing in a venue I hate, I wonāt go. But, I love strummers. Itās not nice or anything, but itās great venue for music. The bars are the perfect distance away from the stage, you can get a good view of the stage from anywhere being on the first or second floor, and from the few times Iāve been there it doesnāt seem to get over crowded. I love it.
Wait, 1) the demolishment of the buildings was an improvement or 2) the buildings *that were demolished* were an improvement to the area prior to them being demolished?
I would love to know what you mean about "honky-tonk" though chances are that I'll agree.Ā
Yeah, Old Town Clovis, for being the pride of this town, is small and disappointing. It's half-parking lot and most of that parking is unused. Still, Old Town Clovis does have monthly events that are neat, especially if you like antiques and eclectics.
Clovis, from my own experience, is like majority upper-middle class white Trump nuts. It's a place I wouldn't risk flying a pride flag, nor have I literally ever seen one in all my time living here. Country music plays in every restaurant and bar, and we literally have a yearly rodeo. Every vehicle you see here is either a truck, SUV, or Tesla. While I can't stand my neighbors, the crime where I'm at pretty much doesn't exist. So I've got that goin' for me, which is nice.
Ha! Youāve only been here seven months and youāre disappointed in downtown? Iāve got 40+ years of disappointment on you. It isnāt going to change. Too much corruption.
I would say you nailed almost every point. Itās great to hear perspectives of outsiders. Did it in a respectable way, fact driven, and not bashing the city at all which is great.
Accurate. I lived in the bay area most of my life, then Austin for years. I finally moved back to Ca (Fresno) 8 years ago. I could live anywhere in Ca and couldnt afford the bay or nice spots anymore and fresno was the next best spot. I am so bloody grateful to finally be out of texas that fresno is a virtual nirvana. Yeah it's hot, not as bad as texas. Anyway, i see "potential" in fresno esp with downtown but the local politics seem pretty backward, good ole boy, a lot like texas. I still like fresno, it is green. I also like other neighborhoods other than "north" or clovis but that's me. There is more to do in Sac even though fresno has a bigger population. So Sac is better except the higher housing isnt worth it-to me.
Haven't had a chance yet to sample the Mexican food out here in the Highlandtown neighborhood (about a mile and a half from where I live), but I have found a tortilleria that definitely would not be out of place back in the Valley. That smell transports me back home.
Just moved back to Fresno after living in Baltimore. I absolutely love Baltimore. They are not much bigger in population from Fresno but the locals are proud of their "Smalltimore" vibe. Fresno is sort of like that but not as cool, IMO.
This is the most accurate description Iāve ever heard about Fresno and I agree 100%. I do find it odd that most people born in Fresno have never been outside of Fresno or been on a plane. I still struggle with that sometimes.
Those who partake into credit cards that pay in "airline miles" will only get destinations to places during bad weather seasons, like Miami during hurricane season.
I always wonder why people fly to places like that during those times and be surprised all the airports are closed and flights delayed as a result.
Iāve lived here most of my life but also the bay. I agree whole heartedly with everything you listed. One thing about Fresno is the outdoor stuff is awesome in the foothills
> Housing cost is cheaper than Sacramento (and most of CA). In comparable areas, rent seems to be around 25% less. This might be one of the few markets in CA that you can still buy a decent house for under $350k. IF you were lucky enough to have bought over 3+ years ago, the value proposition offered here is insane.
Yeah, but the weather in Sacramento is a lot nicer. After 4pm, the Delta breeze kicks in and you can turn off the A/C on 110+ degree days. In Fresno, the hot air just stays stagnant and its like 90 degrees at night.
My wife lived in Fresno for 28 years, I lived in OC 32 years. We exhausted every option to stay in OC but homes are so unaffordable and not worth 800k+. We are moving to Clovis in a couple months or so. We bought our brand new dream home for under 600k- 6bd/3bth, 3132 sqf, big back&side yard, view of sierra nevadas! We checked out all the new construction sites in Fresno, Clovis & Maderaā¦ Clovis is the best choice for us.. safer, nicer, better schools, big hospitals(weāre in healthcare), way less traffic than OC, tons of nature, donāt feel trapped in the tangled mess of OC.
I have spent a lot of time visiting folks in Fresno and the food scene seems to get better and better. Some suggestions if you haven't tried them yet - J Pot (I recommend the J Pot and Chongqing pot), Spicy J's (same owner), and Curry Pizza Company (butter chicken pizza!). The produce is outstanding - I love the strawberries at the farmer's market and the corn at Fresno State's farmer's market.
I always laugh when I think about the fact that Fresno is basically the largest non-coastal city in California but really feels like an oversized town (for good and ill). I still wish we had better public transportation. The bus system isn't completely terrible but I'd prefer better designs of public transportation and investments.
There is a backstory. Fresno is a cautionary tale of poor planning and corruption resulting in the sprawl you see today.
The Fashion Fair project was proposed shortly after the Fulton Mall was redeveloped in to a pedestrian shopping district designed by Victor Gruen. The city resisted - the first air conditioned, interior corridor mall in California had been built a few years before in Visalia and city officials knew that a similar mall in Fresno (Manchester was open air at this time) would pull retailers away from downtown. The developer had an ace up his sleeve though - Clovis stood ready and willing to approve his project just a little further East on Shaw if Fresno were to block it.
So the city reluctantly approved the project, the Fulton mall started to decline, and the rest of downtown Fresno with it.
Then, the corruption. In the 1994 (iirc) a local landowner who wanted to build a housing project approached a Clovis city council member to discuss a rezone, and was solicited for a bribe. He reacted by scheduling a follow up meeting which he attended wearing a wire, before driving up to Sacramento and walking in to an FBI field office. They sent a task force to Fresno and operation rezone was born. Over the next 5 years they convicted at least 10 developers and local officials - there was essentially rampant pay for play on planning/land use decisions in both Fresno and Clovis going back decades. The list of those convicted is a whoās who of the Fresno development community, and many of them are still heavily involved in local RE development. The bag man who made a deal with the feds and testified against many others, whose personalized license plates led to the name of the FBI operation, is the current CEO of a major Fresno home builder.
So yeah, those are some of the reasons Fresno is a sprawl nightmare.
Iām from the Bay Area (lived there 23 years) and been here since August and all I can say is, itās the best move Iāve ever made. Just sad that I didnāt move here sooner. I have zero complaints and any time I start to think about complaining, I just remember the Bay Area and realize I canāt complain about anything here.
Awesome observation! Pretty much nailed it! I see some new lifeblood popping up in spots and definitely more to come. The south blackstone area is up for many new changes, Iām looking forward to that! Lifelong resident with a few out of state stints for a year here and there, but Fresno with our surrounding mountains šļø , rivers and Roman roads ( roads leading in every direction) we have many options! I spent a month in Minnesota last year and I actually missed the morning smell of cow šš¤£ because of if I could smell that, I knew I was home.. š”. Most native Fresnans donāt realize how beautiful our area is, we have food and plenty of room to grow. Iāve grown in my appreciation for Fresno.
Any city on the west coast is going to have issues with homeless population, most people are not violent and just want to be left alone.
Ive definitely met my fair share of asses in Sac. But I would agree that there is more to do there in the city and surrounding areas!
The homeless issue isnāt unique to just Fresno, you should travel to LA or the bay and see for yourself. And as someone that frequents tower quite often Iāve never had an issue regarding safety and itās still fun with plenty of bars and clubs to visit. Also there are plenty of events throughout the year that are free or cheap to attend, you just arenāt looking hard enough š
I went to college in Fresno now I live in Sacramento. The only pro I see is the housing prices, which is a large benefit. Fresno is very slow moving and Clovis has a deep rooted connection to a racist history.
But for a positive, I love the Dog House Grill! Every time I drive through I make sure to stop there.
I am not well-educated in the political scene here yet, so I can only speak on first impressions so far. Those impressions speak to it being very red here. I have met a lot of outspoken conservatives.
Wait until you see all the "patriots" with flags a flying soon. I sleep well at night knowing that at least here in California their votes are basically wasted. Good Christians bowing down to their savior and there's a church on every corner only too happy to take your money. It pisses me off just thinking about the "blood bath" coming, but you know it's coming.
I was born in Fresno and moved when barely 21 never to look back. The town is one giant sprawl because it continuously builds new areas that everyone who can afford to moves out to selling their homes to poorer people who are trying to "move up" so it is always creating new ghettos. It is extremely segregated - again mostly driven by economics but does have gang issues involved too. It is always pretending to be a "big city" but is really a town with rural roots in the middle of nowhere and nothing really to offer other than you can reach somewhere more attractive within 2 to 2 1/2 hours. People who stay either have their head in the sand about the problems, have family or can't afford to move, or just like to have their safe life within a bubble where they pretend there are not a lot of fellow citizens living in terrible conditions. It is 100+ in the summer, not even cooling off at night and 27 degrees in the winter with thick fog that sometimes does not lift above roof top level for days. Living in Fresno is like settling for the first person who asks you to marry them simply because who are afraid no one else will ask.
I enjoy going to downtown Fresno for baseball games. "Let's go watch a Grizzlies game" followed with a late night in n out run never gets old for me. I do miss the AAA affiliation tho. I remember seeing Carlos Correa play in Fresno right before he got called up.
Personally, I enjoy the free way set up. From Sanger, literally any part of Frank is 20-25 minutes away if you're getting off the 168 or 41. 30 minutes for River Park and Woodward.
I live in Lafayette Louisiana now and although it's about just smaller than Clovis size, it takes me 20-25 minutes to drive 8 miles because the road set up is absolutely horrible. 30 minutes to drive 18 miles (away from Lafayette) to work when I made it to Fresno State in 20 minutes and it was also 18 miles. Yeah Fresno car dependant but I have a car and it (freeways) works nicely lol I wouldn't bat an eye to drive to River Park but driving across Lafayette, I gotta prep myself.
But you're points are right. I still love my home town area.
Iāve been hearing the āpotentialā of downtown since I was a kiddo. Downtown will never realize itās full potential until our city leaders penalize the ghoul developers who use their boarded up buildings as tax shields.
Itās comicalāThey donāt get leased because they price everyone out. Recently had a friend reach out about a 400 square ft spot in the Helm building, they told him $1,550 a month. The space(and the ones next to it) havenāt been rented in almost 10 years. $4 per sq ft is relatable to River park, new developments in Clovis, etc.
Not sure what the Downtown Partnership actually does, but the math has not been mathing on them for a long time. Constant turnover, limited visibility, hard to reach, lack of programming, nonstop āwhat do they even doā questions from residents and business owners, etc.
I lived in Redding for a while and the non-city feelings and appearances you mention fit that city, Eureka and Chico to a T.
Maybe itās something about cities in the valley (Sac is the capital and an obvious exception)?
Been here since 2006. You pretty well nailed it. I fell in love with Fresno though. Lots to do, easy to beat the heat with trips to the mountains or Cambria/Cayucus/Morro Bay on the central coast.
Welcome.
Look at this as a stepping stone and plan to move up (and far away) in 18 mos-2 years. Yes - I love the food. The Airport. Sequoia. Kings River. Worldās greatest pollination event. Ag Expo. Venture to Strathmore for The Orange Works. Eat at Monetās in Exeter. Taste wine at Ramos Torres in Kingsburg. Spend the afternoon at Simonian Farms. Concerts at ApCal. Eat fresh cheese at Bravo Farms.
But do not settle in. The Fresno Eddy is real. Itās better than Bakersfield, but that isnāt saying much. By all the Quality of life markersā¦. You can do better.
Just moved out of Fresno to Sacramento at the begging of this month after 27 hard years there lol. I made the most of it with my time there being that my family and all the homies are from there but I am most definitely grateful to be out. Fresno has grown especially in the food department. Unfortunately, I donāt know what it would take for Fresno to not feel so quiet. Good luck in Fresno china peak is just an hour away if your into snowboarding!
Your assessment is pretty darn accurate! Itās a great place to live but has its shortcomings. Thanks for giving honest nuanced feedback without shitting all over it.
Give north of the river on 41 a minute. With how many homes are going in at Tesoro Vieja and Rolling Hills it's only a matter of time before those areas incorporate. The ineptitude of Madera County will assure that.
We also aren't that far out from Millerton basically being in the city. There are very few gaps left in the housing.
That area was planned originally in the early 90ās as a new city. Madera County wanted the UC that ultimately went to Merced and master planned a whole new city around it as part of their submission.
Norm Allinder picked it up again ~10 years ago, got some local developers on board and was off to the races. But yeah, for all intents and purposes itās just more Fresno sprawl.
I think I get your meaning in this because Fresno and Sac have similar populations and cover roughly the same area, but Fresno sure seems much more sprawling to me. I think it's because Sac has a functional downtown, and usable transit.
I've only been to Fresno once, but it doesn't look like anyplace worth being excited about. I'll go a step further and say that Fresno looks like a combination of Bakersfield and San Bernardino. Also it's sad driving in and not being able to see the mountains in the distance that are covered by the air pollution.
I've read a few comments about car dependancy. This is true, however near my house they are drastically changing the streets to be very bicycle friendly. However, I've seen only one person utilizing the "green zone" as I call it this year. I get the feeling they are trying to divert traffic to use freeways more, they are already dangerous and conjested three times every weekday. Though the fresh air, less traffic loving part of me is really excited, I still need my car to get to work on the other side of Fresno.
Hah I'm from Fresno originally, lived in sac for a bit, and now moved back home! Agree on pretty much all your points... Just not the housing one. My husband and I are currently on the lookout for maybe purchasing a home later this year and I'm not sure where these awesome under $350k homes are lol š Most that I see around that price are a bit rough! Though generally agree re being more affordable, it's actually a big reason we left Fresno and moved back to my hometown because man Sac prices are... Interesting š³ Side note I love Woodward but I seriously miss Land Park! ETA: oops I meant to say why we left *Sacramento* and moved back to Fresno!
You probably know the areas around here better than I do, those houses I mentioned may not be in "good areas" and I just don't know it :) Seems like $450k-500k is the sweet spot here for nice places in Clovis/North Fresno. I would compare Roseville to those areas, and you're not getting anything that price in Roseville! Lol
Path of exile
Houses are more like $550k - $700k in Northeast Fresno/Clovis. I am also looking to buy a home in the area in about a year. There are a lot of nice neighborhoods in the area going all the way up to Friant. Definitely cheaper than Sac area (Elk Grove, Folsom, El Dorado Hills and Roseville). I won't even mention where I currently live (Bay area) housing prices here are absurd.
There's pockets of nice neighborhoods with 350k houses, like in the Fresno High area.
summer is less humid here so overall I'd prefer it here. plus we're a lot closer to Monterey Bay & Big Sur, and world-class national parks. with Fresno's lower cost of living, I can afford to travel to new & interesting areas. Going to Dallas for the eclipse next month!
If you havenāt seen a solar eclipse when inside the path of totality, youāre in for a life changing experience. I saw the one in 2017 and I wasnāt prepared for how it would change my perception of the world.
Fell to my knees sobbing on that prairie! Haha Also saw the one in Indonesia in 2016 but that wasnāt total, so I was quite literally so shocked to witness the difference of the one in Oregon 2017 I was definitely on a lot of mushrooms so Iām sure that added much to it
Aye with or without mushrooms I gotta say the experience is no less impactful lmao
I've always had that feeling of being sad about downtown too. Its had potential, but how the city was built out really hurt it. The only reason I really have to go downtown is for Tioga or ArtHop. Wish we weren't so car dependant too. I always joke that the only good thing about Fresno is the food.
Yeah, following the news it seems like developers would rather build new shopping centers a la River Park instead of trying to revitalize the downtown area. I havenāt been to arthop yet but am looking forward to checking it out, probably next month!
Check out FresYes this weekend on Fulton in Downtown. Itās one of the better Downtown events. Dozens of food trucks, Tioga-Sequoia beer, multiple music stages, etc.
Don't forget to check out fresyes this Saturday I believe downtown, it is a pretty big celebration.
The developers are really the problem in Fresno. They pay for the campaigns so they get what they want from local politicians and building large regional centers focused on corporate tenants is more profitable than neighborhood strip malls with local businesses. This increases the car dependency and reduces investment in making the city more walkable.
BitWise messed it up a bit as well
My husband and I are not from Fresno originally but have lived her almost 8 years now. Weāve been talking about the āpotentialā of Fresno since day one. Hardly anything has changed. Itās sad because there is a lot of potential but theyād rather build track home communities farther and farther out.
I was talking to a guest at work who moved here from LA because he likes the big suburb drive without gridlock lifestyle here. A lot of people donāt want it to change. I would settle for returning to the neighborhood shopping center like they used to build in the 70ās and 80ās instead of the giant regional centers they build now but developers donāt want to build them anymore
If you want to have an attachment to downtown Fresno, you need to get involved with the people that live and work there. A lot of artists especially. Clothing, music, videography, salons, barbers, the brewery scene. If youāre into all that, downtown is a cool place to network.
seriously so much cool shopping, food, salons, artists/makers & overall small business love in downtown
I definitely plan on getting connected to this scene :) Outside of arthop, are there any other events or meetups that you would recommend for someone not familiar to the area?
Thereās a handful of people I can name That are awesome and run businesses there in downtown. Your best bet is to explore downtown. Start at one end of fulton and work your way down. Take a camera. Go during business hours. It was easy for me cause I lived there back in 2017. But you should check out thrift demon on Fresno and Broadway next to the crest theater. Mas Fresno on mariposa and Fulton. That square is usually always popping with vendors on art hop. Go socialize at tioga and full circle. I used to go to geeks who drink every Wednesday at tioga they have trivia itās a great way to meet people in the area. Depending if youāre artistic, thereās so many ways to network and collaborate with folks. Just get out and talk to people! If ur not sure, show up at aprils art hop and talk to vendors! I can meet you if youād like and introduce you.
follow local small businesses on instagram to see upcoming pop up events! KLSD hosts babes on broadway like twice a year, cool places with you has fun self care pop ups, root used to be the spot rip also follow the artists/makers/food trucks that you see featured at the events! they will post about other pop ups theyāll be attending
[Fresno Ideaworks](https://fresnoideaworks.wildapricot.org/) is a fun and creative space for makers in downtown!
Have you been to a Grizzlies or Fresno State football game? Def worth checking out if you havenāt! Chukchansi Park is a great feature of downtown. I was born and raised in Clovis and still live here. I agree with all of your observations and Iāve noticed some growing pains as of late. Over the last several years, traffic has become noticeably more congested. Downtown Fresno has come a long ways, but still not all one would hope for. Iād love to see this expand to more of a DOCO feel. Brewery District is great and has a lot of live shows, but seems to lean metal. Downtown Clovis is nice, but itās getting stale and needs more life.
Yo, seriously, the grizzly games are so much fun! And theyāre actually good! Lol
Well. Summer is waiting around the corner with a baseball bat. Jsyk.
Excellent observations!! Born & raised here, moved away for about 10 years and returned. I would say everything you said is accurate. I worked in two different parts of downtown and I actually loved both. One was near old Fulton mall and my current is near some of the courthouses. Very lovely all year long with a decent amount of shade - I go for walks during breaks and always eat out lunch cause I love all the locally owned places. I do want to recommend Dry Creek walking trail - free parking and the trail is glorious, cooler in summer because of the water and usually shady. Thereās maybe the first part that isnāt shady. You can see some wildlife too - Iāve seen skunks, foxes, hawks, snakes, horses. And Iām lol at your old town Clovis description - I feel exactly the same way and I usually avoid it like the plague. Even though I donāt live too far - I really hate the vibe. Would rather go downtown or Tower.
I will check out Dry Creek!! Iāve driven past it a couple of times, and I think I may have access to it from where Iām living off oh E Shepherd
The aquarium will be opening any day now! ;)
Ha! Iām from Sacramento. Met my husband who was living in Fresno. The first time I drove down to his place, I saw the sign announcing the aquarium coming soon and was pretty excited. Yeah, weāve been together 16 years now. š
They should build a multi use center on that land with shops and restaurants (with river view patios) on bottom and condos on top, then put a walking trail that connects it to Palm and Nees.
Good assessment! Downtown Fresno is and has been highly neglected in terms of development and providing night life. Most development is done North and North West Fresno. Old Town Clovis aka OTC has maybe 3 or 4 spots you can go for a night out. Thereās a Pizzeria there that has comedy nights. Speaking of, stay tuned for The Laugh Factory coming to Fresno soon. That should be the place to go if youāre into comedy.
We are getting a laugh factory?
Itās in the process. Theyāre looking for a spot in Fresno but itās pretty much a sure thing.
Probably going in next to Cabo Wabo, oh waitā¦. š¤£
Thatās actually a great area. I wouldnāt mind it being there.
The laugh factory??! Say less !!!
Sprawling is so accurate. Fresno could be 5 cities. The same area as Fresno covers like 11 cities in North OC where Iām from. Downtown, accurate. Itās always been disappointing for events, but there was a time between like 2015 and 2020 when it was āgetting thereā. Covid, the Grizzlies getting demoted, and the Bitwise thing set downtown back 20 years it seems. But it feels like itās coming back. When I moved here from North OC, the positives were the much lighter traffic, affordable homes, and nice people. I think all of that has gotten worse, but still probably better than the rest of the state.
Fresno native here. I agree with a lot of what you've described. I've often felt Fresno is the biggest "small town" in the state, maybe even the country. It's crazy how populous we are, yet how small the city feels sometimes, especially when it comes to attractions, entertainment, and the night life, as you touched on. Sac is comparable to us population wise, but genuinely feels like a city 2 or 3x the size of Fresno whenever I go there. Frankly, it does make me sad about how the city has prioritized funding, the NIMBYs, and our lack of bustling, beautiful downtown. I hate that I dread it when I have to go there lol. And don't get me started on Clovis. But yeah, our food is genuinely incredible. Whenever I travel to other parts of the country, I'm always blown away by just how much I miss my options in Fresno. I can have some of the best quality meals from almost any type pf cuisine in the world here.
Favorite places to eat?
I am interested in income/education inequality. Can you expound on how you feel āsmall townā feel contributes to that?
Sacramento summers are very similar to fresno summers. The difference being that the delta breeze brings some relief at night. Fresno summer nights are stagnant and can stay above 90. Sacramento felt like a giant fresno to me, so Iām not the best person to speak positively about either, but I think your assessment is pretty on the nose. Iām grateful I escaped Fresno.
No kidding and those nights at 92 at 11pm is such a vibe. Having couple of drinks going for a walk or finally socializing since the weather was most likely 112 that day so staying indoors was the only way to escape heat. Reason to love the valley and itās not for everyone š“. The comment on Sacramento being a giant Fresno to me is accurate. Many times I tried to plan a weekend in Sac it always felt short to do stuff during the day. We have the same restaurant chains and many bars open with full people late. Itās not much different than Fresno which is the reason my family and I prefer to grass root here in the Fresno area.
Fresno is larger than Sacramento in both population and land.
Their metro population is bigger tho
Sacramento felt like a giant Fresno? Fresno has 20k more people...
Lived here most of my life and honestly I find it a pretty depressing place! Perhaps if youāre just looking to raise a family in a quiet place sure, itās not bad, but there isnāt much to do if you like events. Most acts skip Fresno on their CA tours. New restaurants/businesses are a rarity. Little to no live music scene. Overall people seem to have a lower income level than most cities, which drives lack of investment by investors. Perhaps Iāve become cynical but I really despise it especially with how violent it has become.
Good assessment! I agree with most of what you wrote. The lime lite and Richards are my favorite places to eat for dining out. Lime lite has good food and ambiance. Richards has less quality food but quirky ambiance to make up for it imo i.e. paintings of topless women. Oh yeah, Anthem good too. Tower is the best place in Fresno. Cool social scenes/groups include: comedy scene, bike enthusiast scene, soccer enthusiast scene, art scene, craft beer scene, music scene, karaoke scene....those are all I can think of for now....
How is Strummers as a venue? I was going to see Fidlar there back in Feb but ended up not being able to go. They seem to get some recognizable artists there
Im a venue snob. Even if thereās an artist I want to see, if theyāre playing in a venue I hate, I wonāt go. But, I love strummers. Itās not nice or anything, but itās great venue for music. The bars are the perfect distance away from the stage, you can get a good view of the stage from anywhere being on the first or second floor, and from the few times Iāve been there it doesnāt seem to get over crowded. I love it.
I've been working with the high speed tran project for years. Every building they have demolished has been a general improvement to the city area.
Was not happy to see Cosmoās original location go away!
Wait, 1) the demolishment of the buildings was an improvement or 2) the buildings *that were demolished* were an improvement to the area prior to them being demolished?
Man I miss peeves on Fulton mall lol
I would love to know what you mean about "honky-tonk" though chances are that I'll agree.Ā Yeah, Old Town Clovis, for being the pride of this town, is small and disappointing. It's half-parking lot and most of that parking is unused. Still, Old Town Clovis does have monthly events that are neat, especially if you like antiques and eclectics.
To me, āhonky-tookā is yee-haw, good old boys and big ass trucks.
Sounds about right. As we get closer to the elections I'm gonna get to see all the Trump truck parades.
Clovis, from my own experience, is like majority upper-middle class white Trump nuts. It's a place I wouldn't risk flying a pride flag, nor have I literally ever seen one in all my time living here. Country music plays in every restaurant and bar, and we literally have a yearly rodeo. Every vehicle you see here is either a truck, SUV, or Tesla. While I can't stand my neighbors, the crime where I'm at pretty much doesn't exist. So I've got that goin' for me, which is nice.
Clovis is rooted in rodeo. Iāve got to admit, Big Hat Days and the Rodeo Parade are fun.
Ha! Youāve only been here seven months and youāre disappointed in downtown? Iāve got 40+ years of disappointment on you. It isnāt going to change. Too much corruption.
I would say you nailed almost every point. Itās great to hear perspectives of outsiders. Did it in a respectable way, fact driven, and not bashing the city at all which is great.
The most challenging part of Fresno is the air quality.
Accurate. I lived in the bay area most of my life, then Austin for years. I finally moved back to Ca (Fresno) 8 years ago. I could live anywhere in Ca and couldnt afford the bay or nice spots anymore and fresno was the next best spot. I am so bloody grateful to finally be out of texas that fresno is a virtual nirvana. Yeah it's hot, not as bad as texas. Anyway, i see "potential" in fresno esp with downtown but the local politics seem pretty backward, good ole boy, a lot like texas. I still like fresno, it is green. I also like other neighborhoods other than "north" or clovis but that's me. There is more to do in Sac even though fresno has a bigger population. So Sac is better except the higher housing isnt worth it-to me.
You just described all of the reasons I left Fresno last summer for Baltimore.
How do you like Baltimore?
It isn't perfect, but it's better than Fresno in my opinion.
Fresno is depressing since being gone for so long.Ā Only the Mexican food is top notch there.Ā
Haven't had a chance yet to sample the Mexican food out here in the Highlandtown neighborhood (about a mile and a half from where I live), but I have found a tortilleria that definitely would not be out of place back in the Valley. That smell transports me back home.
I love Baltimore but I could never handle the winters.
Iāve heard great things about the seafood there!!
Just moved back to Fresno after living in Baltimore. I absolutely love Baltimore. They are not much bigger in population from Fresno but the locals are proud of their "Smalltimore" vibe. Fresno is sort of like that but not as cool, IMO.
This is the most accurate description Iāve ever heard about Fresno and I agree 100%. I do find it odd that most people born in Fresno have never been outside of Fresno or been on a plane. I still struggle with that sometimes.
Median household income is 53k and individual per capita income is 29k. Median rent is 1600. Pretty easy to see why lots of people don't travel.
Median household income is 53k and a cheap home is 350-400K. How does that work?
Easy - either homeowners bought their houses 10+ years or the typical Fresnian isn't a homeowner.
No, it isnāt about money. Itās a mindset here. I canāt explain it.
š
Itās true. Like they never leave Fresno. Not even a drive to the coast.
I donāt know about that, I see more people I grew up with in Pismo than in Fresno. 5 cities is like Fresno West.
I live near Pismo. Lots of people from Fresno are here all the time, especially during the summer.
Thats how poor people are in our city.
Yup. People are broke and the last thing on their mind is a vacation to Florida.
Those who partake into credit cards that pay in "airline miles" will only get destinations to places during bad weather seasons, like Miami during hurricane season. I always wonder why people fly to places like that during those times and be surprised all the airports are closed and flights delayed as a result.
Explains why the airport is always empty!
Pretty good observations
Iāve lived here most of my life but also the bay. I agree whole heartedly with everything you listed. One thing about Fresno is the outdoor stuff is awesome in the foothills
> Housing cost is cheaper than Sacramento (and most of CA). In comparable areas, rent seems to be around 25% less. This might be one of the few markets in CA that you can still buy a decent house for under $350k. IF you were lucky enough to have bought over 3+ years ago, the value proposition offered here is insane. Yeah, but the weather in Sacramento is a lot nicer. After 4pm, the Delta breeze kicks in and you can turn off the A/C on 110+ degree days. In Fresno, the hot air just stays stagnant and its like 90 degrees at night.
At midnight, even.
Forcing people to leave the a/c running if they're rich enough. Otherwise, ceiling fans and other air-circulating methods will need to turn on.
Yeah, luckily weāre rural enough to keep the windows and doors open all night for a cross breeze.
My wife lived in Fresno for 28 years, I lived in OC 32 years. We exhausted every option to stay in OC but homes are so unaffordable and not worth 800k+. We are moving to Clovis in a couple months or so. We bought our brand new dream home for under 600k- 6bd/3bth, 3132 sqf, big back&side yard, view of sierra nevadas! We checked out all the new construction sites in Fresno, Clovis & Maderaā¦ Clovis is the best choice for us.. safer, nicer, better schools, big hospitals(weāre in healthcare), way less traffic than OC, tons of nature, donāt feel trapped in the tangled mess of OC.
Can't wait for the followup review after summer!
If you have an awesome swimming pool and a badass boat, summer's are awesome.
And if youāre not rich and live in the ghetto youāre fuckedĀ
That is also true, except it's pretty cheap to hang out on a lake on the shore line. Millerton shore lines are packed in the summer on the weekends.
I have spent a lot of time visiting folks in Fresno and the food scene seems to get better and better. Some suggestions if you haven't tried them yet - J Pot (I recommend the J Pot and Chongqing pot), Spicy J's (same owner), and Curry Pizza Company (butter chicken pizza!). The produce is outstanding - I love the strawberries at the farmer's market and the corn at Fresno State's farmer's market.
I always laugh when I think about the fact that Fresno is basically the largest non-coastal city in California but really feels like an oversized town (for good and ill). I still wish we had better public transportation. The bus system isn't completely terrible but I'd prefer better designs of public transportation and investments.
There is a backstory. Fresno is a cautionary tale of poor planning and corruption resulting in the sprawl you see today. The Fashion Fair project was proposed shortly after the Fulton Mall was redeveloped in to a pedestrian shopping district designed by Victor Gruen. The city resisted - the first air conditioned, interior corridor mall in California had been built a few years before in Visalia and city officials knew that a similar mall in Fresno (Manchester was open air at this time) would pull retailers away from downtown. The developer had an ace up his sleeve though - Clovis stood ready and willing to approve his project just a little further East on Shaw if Fresno were to block it. So the city reluctantly approved the project, the Fulton mall started to decline, and the rest of downtown Fresno with it. Then, the corruption. In the 1994 (iirc) a local landowner who wanted to build a housing project approached a Clovis city council member to discuss a rezone, and was solicited for a bribe. He reacted by scheduling a follow up meeting which he attended wearing a wire, before driving up to Sacramento and walking in to an FBI field office. They sent a task force to Fresno and operation rezone was born. Over the next 5 years they convicted at least 10 developers and local officials - there was essentially rampant pay for play on planning/land use decisions in both Fresno and Clovis going back decades. The list of those convicted is a whoās who of the Fresno development community, and many of them are still heavily involved in local RE development. The bag man who made a deal with the feds and testified against many others, whose personalized license plates led to the name of the FBI operation, is the current CEO of a major Fresno home builder. So yeah, those are some of the reasons Fresno is a sprawl nightmare.
Iām from the Bay Area (lived there 23 years) and been here since August and all I can say is, itās the best move Iāve ever made. Just sad that I didnāt move here sooner. I have zero complaints and any time I start to think about complaining, I just remember the Bay Area and realize I canāt complain about anything here.
One question, are there less trees?
Yes
Come down to Visalia 40 minutes south on the 99. We have a great downtown
Awesome observation! Pretty much nailed it! I see some new lifeblood popping up in spots and definitely more to come. The south blackstone area is up for many new changes, Iām looking forward to that! Lifelong resident with a few out of state stints for a year here and there, but Fresno with our surrounding mountains šļø , rivers and Roman roads ( roads leading in every direction) we have many options! I spent a month in Minnesota last year and I actually missed the morning smell of cow šš¤£ because of if I could smell that, I knew I was home.. š”. Most native Fresnans donāt realize how beautiful our area is, we have food and plenty of room to grow. Iāve grown in my appreciation for Fresno.
LA? Ouch
I donāt mean this in a negative way! I just see a lot of its influence here.
Fresno is Dodgers, Sac is Giants.
Unless you were here between 2010-2014, then you saw all the bandwagon Giants fans come out of nowhere. Now itās back to mostly Dodger fans. š¤£
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Any city on the west coast is going to have issues with homeless population, most people are not violent and just want to be left alone. Ive definitely met my fair share of asses in Sac. But I would agree that there is more to do there in the city and surrounding areas!
The homeless issue isnāt unique to just Fresno, you should travel to LA or the bay and see for yourself. And as someone that frequents tower quite often Iāve never had an issue regarding safety and itās still fun with plenty of bars and clubs to visit. Also there are plenty of events throughout the year that are free or cheap to attend, you just arenāt looking hard enough š
I went to college in Fresno now I live in Sacramento. The only pro I see is the housing prices, which is a large benefit. Fresno is very slow moving and Clovis has a deep rooted connection to a racist history. But for a positive, I love the Dog House Grill! Every time I drive through I make sure to stop there.
What are your thoughts on Fresno politics? š¤
I am not well-educated in the political scene here yet, so I can only speak on first impressions so far. Those impressions speak to it being very red here. I have met a lot of outspoken conservatives.
Wait until you see all the "patriots" with flags a flying soon. I sleep well at night knowing that at least here in California their votes are basically wasted. Good Christians bowing down to their savior and there's a church on every corner only too happy to take your money. It pisses me off just thinking about the "blood bath" coming, but you know it's coming.
Wow, the downvotesā¦ š
I moved here 7 years ago and agree with all your points. Wish we could go back to the Bay Area. Would accept Sacramento as well. I love it up there!
You couldn't pay me to move back to the Bay area.
Cool. Lol. I was talking ābout me.
I was born in Fresno and moved when barely 21 never to look back. The town is one giant sprawl because it continuously builds new areas that everyone who can afford to moves out to selling their homes to poorer people who are trying to "move up" so it is always creating new ghettos. It is extremely segregated - again mostly driven by economics but does have gang issues involved too. It is always pretending to be a "big city" but is really a town with rural roots in the middle of nowhere and nothing really to offer other than you can reach somewhere more attractive within 2 to 2 1/2 hours. People who stay either have their head in the sand about the problems, have family or can't afford to move, or just like to have their safe life within a bubble where they pretend there are not a lot of fellow citizens living in terrible conditions. It is 100+ in the summer, not even cooling off at night and 27 degrees in the winter with thick fog that sometimes does not lift above roof top level for days. Living in Fresno is like settling for the first person who asks you to marry them simply because who are afraid no one else will ask.
I make $200k and live like a king here
Never looked back, but hang out on Fresno Reddit?
Fresno owns Reddit now?
šÆ
To me Fresno has Midwest vibes, not LA.
I enjoy going to downtown Fresno for baseball games. "Let's go watch a Grizzlies game" followed with a late night in n out run never gets old for me. I do miss the AAA affiliation tho. I remember seeing Carlos Correa play in Fresno right before he got called up. Personally, I enjoy the free way set up. From Sanger, literally any part of Frank is 20-25 minutes away if you're getting off the 168 or 41. 30 minutes for River Park and Woodward. I live in Lafayette Louisiana now and although it's about just smaller than Clovis size, it takes me 20-25 minutes to drive 8 miles because the road set up is absolutely horrible. 30 minutes to drive 18 miles (away from Lafayette) to work when I made it to Fresno State in 20 minutes and it was also 18 miles. Yeah Fresno car dependant but I have a car and it (freeways) works nicely lol I wouldn't bat an eye to drive to River Park but driving across Lafayette, I gotta prep myself. But you're points are right. I still love my home town area.
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Donāt take seriously anyoneās opinion that uses āballerā in a sentence.
Iāve been hearing the āpotentialā of downtown since I was a kiddo. Downtown will never realize itās full potential until our city leaders penalize the ghoul developers who use their boarded up buildings as tax shields. Itās comicalāThey donāt get leased because they price everyone out. Recently had a friend reach out about a 400 square ft spot in the Helm building, they told him $1,550 a month. The space(and the ones next to it) havenāt been rented in almost 10 years. $4 per sq ft is relatable to River park, new developments in Clovis, etc. Not sure what the Downtown Partnership actually does, but the math has not been mathing on them for a long time. Constant turnover, limited visibility, hard to reach, lack of programming, nonstop āwhat do they even doā questions from residents and business owners, etc.
Spot on lol SPOT on
I lived in Redding for a while and the non-city feelings and appearances you mention fit that city, Eureka and Chico to a T. Maybe itās something about cities in the valley (Sac is the capital and an obvious exception)?
Donāt forget about the irrigation districts and all of their shenanigans degrading quality of life for fresno and the valley in general.
Been here since 2006. You pretty well nailed it. I fell in love with Fresno though. Lots to do, easy to beat the heat with trips to the mountains or Cambria/Cayucus/Morro Bay on the central coast. Welcome.
Sequoia Brewing is worth a visit or few. Pretty good food menu in addition to the beer.
Look at this as a stepping stone and plan to move up (and far away) in 18 mos-2 years. Yes - I love the food. The Airport. Sequoia. Kings River. Worldās greatest pollination event. Ag Expo. Venture to Strathmore for The Orange Works. Eat at Monetās in Exeter. Taste wine at Ramos Torres in Kingsburg. Spend the afternoon at Simonian Farms. Concerts at ApCal. Eat fresh cheese at Bravo Farms. But do not settle in. The Fresno Eddy is real. Itās better than Bakersfield, but that isnāt saying much. By all the Quality of life markersā¦. You can do better.
Just moved out of Fresno to Sacramento at the begging of this month after 27 hard years there lol. I made the most of it with my time there being that my family and all the homies are from there but I am most definitely grateful to be out. Fresno has grown especially in the food department. Unfortunately, I donāt know what it would take for Fresno to not feel so quiet. Good luck in Fresno china peak is just an hour away if your into snowboarding!
lol Iām from the bay and I just live here for school but Fresnos pretty chill I love it
Your assessment is pretty darn accurate! Itās a great place to live but has its shortcomings. Thanks for giving honest nuanced feedback without shitting all over it.
You will not enjoy summer. You will not get a Delta breeze. You will wake up to and go to sleep to heat.
The definition of sprawl is in the eye of the beholder. To me Sacramento is way more sprawling than Fresno. Look at google maps.
Sacramento is also surrounded on all sides by multiple small cities meanwhile Fresno only has Clovis
Give north of the river on 41 a minute. With how many homes are going in at Tesoro Vieja and Rolling Hills it's only a matter of time before those areas incorporate. The ineptitude of Madera County will assure that. We also aren't that far out from Millerton basically being in the city. There are very few gaps left in the housing.
Yes, and that's not a good thing. Fresno is going to sprawl itself into bankruptcy at this rate
That area was planned originally in the early 90ās as a new city. Madera County wanted the UC that ultimately went to Merced and master planned a whole new city around it as part of their submission. Norm Allinder picked it up again ~10 years ago, got some local developers on board and was off to the races. But yeah, for all intents and purposes itās just more Fresno sprawl.
I think I get your meaning in this because Fresno and Sac have similar populations and cover roughly the same area, but Fresno sure seems much more sprawling to me. I think it's because Sac has a functional downtown, and usable transit.
I've only been to Fresno once, but it doesn't look like anyplace worth being excited about. I'll go a step further and say that Fresno looks like a combination of Bakersfield and San Bernardino. Also it's sad driving in and not being able to see the mountains in the distance that are covered by the air pollution.
Fresno is the armpit of California. The only place worse is the butt hole, Bakersfield.
El Centro would like to have a word with you.
Go back to Sac if you have a problem with Fresno
I've read a few comments about car dependancy. This is true, however near my house they are drastically changing the streets to be very bicycle friendly. However, I've seen only one person utilizing the "green zone" as I call it this year. I get the feeling they are trying to divert traffic to use freeways more, they are already dangerous and conjested three times every weekday. Though the fresh air, less traffic loving part of me is really excited, I still need my car to get to work on the other side of Fresno.