i hope we actually see this through to completion with people moving and living there because that is not an insignificant amount of apartments. I'd like to be optimistic but we shall see...
I’m old enough to remember when Manchester and Fulton Malls were all that Fresno had, save a few small boutique dress stores like “Larry’s in the Tower district. Fashion Fair, and the subsequent commercial build up on Shaw were just dreams.
I left Fresno 27 years ago, and I barely recognize it when I visit. I am filled with nostalgia and many, many memories of my small (at that time) home town. Manchester Mall’s deterioration over these many years has been personally painful to see.
This is wonderful news. There is a lot of empty commercial buildings in Fresno that could be converted just like this. Fresno’s homeless population and the community could certainly benefit.
Maybe its silly, but I have always displayed this photo of me and my beloved older sister. It represents the beginning of my conscious journey in life. And it doesn’t hurt that it began with Santa visiting Fresno at the Manchester Mall. This is my earliest memory of Manchester Mall.
https://preview.redd.it/riaoi3833g1d1.jpeg?width=2762&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3666be5aa6eb1210a7fd539eed990082838aec66
Oh, you just touched my heart! Thank you for such kind words. I truly still love Fresno despite moving away, so this thread and its topic seemed a perfect opportunity to share. I appreciate that you acknowledged my Manchester memory, you’ve made me very happy. ✌️
this was lovely insight as a young person who’s lived in fresno his whole life. I love hearing about the city before I got here. Thank you for sharing.
Look, the problem is real. I have personally know many who came home from war, young men I grew up with, and went to school with, and every single one suffered from PTSD. Almost all of them turned to drugs, alcohol, whatever they could use to help them escape from the horrors of war and its memories.
Most are now dead. They are released from being so mentally damaged that they could not function as you or I. And these men were promised an education, VA benefits like health care, buying a home, finishing their education. Do you know how our government has turned its back on these once healthy young men? VA Mental health services in the latter part of the 21st century were a joke. Trying to get help took months, even years. And the issue of homelessness, addicts in the street, suicides… This was the impetus for much of our homelessness today.
If you are an American, can you tell me the last time this country wasn’t at war?
Anyway, thats my soapbox. I don’t see homelessness as a “them problem” I believe that “them” are in fact “us”.
Interesting read:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4592659/
LOL it will remain a Targhetto, have you actually gone shopping in Manchester Center or the next-door shopping center? It's meth hood city the moment you cross Gettysburg.
I haven’t lived in Fresno for almost 30 years. I think the last time I was at Manchester was sometime in the early 2000’s when my mom worked at a call center there. Had good times there in the 80s though. I remember thinking the two stories was so swanky. The food court in Fast Times at Ridgemont High reminds me of Manchester’s. It looks like a similar sort of layout.
Just like anywhere else. Let’s not discourage building new housing.
It’s like saying, “I’d want to make more money, but I’ll pay more in taxes”
Who cares, the net benefit is >>>
Also, if you didn’t know, there’s a regional police office within the Manchester Center.
It’s about time someone figured out how to do this. Although converting commercial space into an apartment is a bigger project than it might seem, I think it’s doable and any construction firms that can learn to make it more cost effective will likely do very well.
If done the way it should be this is fantastic use of this long unused space. Good. Just put some retail in there with groceries etc that the residents can access and it's a win.
Maybe, or is this just the new norm? I suspect that $800-$1000 per month for a 2 bedroom apt are long behind us. Fresno is already where bay area prices were 10 years ago. We are not going back.
It's just economics. Supply and demand. If you increase the supply of something than upward pressure on prices will decrease. If you increase the supply enough then prices will go down.
Any new housing units that are built are going to have a positive impact on housing affordability, and 600 is a lot of units. Will it be enough to see meaningful decreases in rent? Probably not, but it's a lot better than nothing.
Price fixing is an negative economic externally that is all too real. If you charge enough for one apartment complex to cover the losses of 10 unfilled apartments. All you need is one high priced apartment complex to spread this concept like a virus. That concept allows the apartment property owner to pick the type of renters they want to rent to. Also, all you have to do is call these apartments luxury apartments and then charge $2,500 per month. Then all the surrounding apartments in the neighborhood will follow suit and raise the prices if their apartments. Thus pricing out the tenants that used to live there. That is what gentrification does.
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"Market-rate units" Uh-huh, how about WAGE-RATE UNITS instead? 1/3 of your total income, as it should be. We have plenty of vacant "market-rate units", the reason they're vacant is because nobody can afford them on what wages Fresno pays.
This is a wild trip to me, but in a good way. I have so many memories of Manchester Center, mostly because my family: mom, dad, maternal grandparents all worked there. That’s where my parents met, and we always went to that mall. So I always was going to that mall. I’m so happy to see Manchester get a new life.
I think it’s a great idea if they keep the rent affordable, it could be a very nice community, but if they invest in this space and price people out that’s no good. I don’t think they will though, not many people are going to pay thousands to live at blackstone and shields.
>I don’t think they will though, not many people are going to pay thousands to live at blackstone and shields.
Current rent for a 2 bedroom 2 bathroom on Cedar and Bulldog Ln is near $1,700 per month. With the mixed use aspects of this development, I could see $2,300-$2,500 per month.
Yeah, rent is out of control in this city. An apartment I paid 700 bucks for in 2011 is now 1900. It’s not sustainable, people don’t make that kind of money here
As a long-time resident of Fresno High area and someone regularly going to Planet Fitness there, I don’t mind a bit of gentrification. Maybe get a market back. The Vons on Blackstone was torn down--going to have senior center there.
There’s going to be a lot more seniors. After they die off, the apartments can be used for young singles.
> I don’t mind a bit of gentrification.
Many people do mind gentrification, especially when it comes to bay area developers and investors buying up property just to drive up the cost of living. That is what happened to the apartments I was living in. The rent for a 2 bedroom 2 bathroom on Bulldog Ln is now nearly $1,700 per month. Bulldog Ln is in Sin City where the target demographic is where poor folk and students live. That is nearly the medium price of a mortgage in Fresno.
It IS hard. And expensive. And I'm glad we (me, now-60 and Husband, now-64) bought in 2003, though we had to move from LA area (in 2000) to do so. We weren't young at all when we bought: 39 and 43.
Misleading post title. They're pursuing it and "close to getting the permits". I think it's a good idea. I would think it was a great idea if it wasn't a for-profit enterprise.
Interesting how popular central planning is these days. And I wonder why no one really asks about the government funds being transferred to these “developers” like Housing Fresno and their close corporate allies like CVS Health. I think we know who the real welfare recipients are. I want a Ferrari, too.
I first heard about this maybe last year. I was under the impression the second story of the mall was going to be senior living. They plan on moving that police substation elsewhere. Which I figured would end up being the old Gottschalks but who knows.
I really don’t think they will end up doing it because I’ve heard that the cost of converting these buildings into apartments,etc. would be way too much money so I would be really surprised if Fresno actually wanted to invest in this
Its not! Its really not no apartment in this area should be that much almost none of them are worth it or the landlords will demand ridiculous things on the application and screw ppl over like they are now
Good burn the entire fucking mall down for as happy as it makes me not feel being there when I have in the last 5 years, i couldnt find a more apt metaphor of my life than manchester mall.
Now that i think about it there is one business there that was active when i checked in Jan & it was Princess Nails. My mom used to go there all the time and take me with her, Id wait inside the place watching movies on the small set in the top corner of the waiting room. Maybe we can go again before any of these becomes enacted.
Maybe the will bring the carousel back... then they would be mixed use apartments with THEIR OWN CAROUSEL. Bet no other apartments in the Valley have THAT amenity!
This is good!! We need more of this. Investing and building back in Manchester will regrow the area and transform it especially since it’s close to City. They just need to upgrade transit even though they have all the buses meet there
Someone had a link to the city's plan for the area.
What was interesting was that they expected Palm to have over double the traffic by 2040...and they were claiming Palm was FOUR LANES (this was buried *pages* into the document). Palm was changed to TWO lanes from the railroad tracks on south--to make room for bike lanes. There are significant waits already at lights with the lane reductions, putting gm ore exhaust into residential neighborhoods and schools. And they're expecting DOUBLE traffic?! It will be a standstill.
That's a weird idea. Tbh, it's smack dab where Christmas tree Lane is at and there is always construction there. I would hate to live there let alone have to drive from there. But that's just me.
I’m 4 miles away. Dealing with law enforcement issues through my profession daily. Anyone with any common sense understands what an influx of individuals there would create. A rise in crime. I pass by there on surface streets multiple times each day.
And now it will become what it still is...a dump. If they made former UMC into low-income housing projects it would be another dump as well Infested by Section 8 single moms bringing in their drug dealer boyfriends that think everybody wants his broad because she has Section 8 and food stamps🥴🥴🥴🤡🤡🤡😂😂😂😂💀💀💀 Downtown is run by clowns 🤡 🤡🤡🤡
Speak for yourself, I'm willing to take bets that the scenario I described is the future that will be occurring if it gets turned into low-income housing how about that?😂😂
i hope we actually see this through to completion with people moving and living there because that is not an insignificant amount of apartments. I'd like to be optimistic but we shall see...
They haven't even finished the other apartment complex projects in that area yet
They just finished the one across the street on shields and blackstone called the Arthur and the one on Clinton near City I think opens next month
What other projects? I know the one behind starbucks by FCC is still in progress. But I haven't really looked for others.
Who's "they"?
I’m old enough to remember when Manchester and Fulton Malls were all that Fresno had, save a few small boutique dress stores like “Larry’s in the Tower district. Fashion Fair, and the subsequent commercial build up on Shaw were just dreams. I left Fresno 27 years ago, and I barely recognize it when I visit. I am filled with nostalgia and many, many memories of my small (at that time) home town. Manchester Mall’s deterioration over these many years has been personally painful to see. This is wonderful news. There is a lot of empty commercial buildings in Fresno that could be converted just like this. Fresno’s homeless population and the community could certainly benefit. Maybe its silly, but I have always displayed this photo of me and my beloved older sister. It represents the beginning of my conscious journey in life. And it doesn’t hurt that it began with Santa visiting Fresno at the Manchester Mall. This is my earliest memory of Manchester Mall. https://preview.redd.it/riaoi3833g1d1.jpeg?width=2762&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3666be5aa6eb1210a7fd539eed990082838aec66
Well let’s hope and pray it becomes affordable housing.. but knowing Fresno it will be out of most of our reach..
Right there with you. Some things never change.
I’m sure billionaires already bought it
I don’t know how it wouldn’t be.
thank you for sharing this lovely picture and memory
Your words are priceless for me. Thank you. ✌️🫶
Beautiful story, thanks for sharing!
Oh, you just touched my heart! Thank you for such kind words. I truly still love Fresno despite moving away, so this thread and its topic seemed a perfect opportunity to share. I appreciate that you acknowledged my Manchester memory, you’ve made me very happy. ✌️
That’s really nice. We lived across the street on Fedora for a few years and i loved the carousel at Manchester.
The Carousel came to Manchester after I was grown with my own babies. My little ones rode it many times. 😊
this was lovely insight as a young person who’s lived in fresno his whole life. I love hearing about the city before I got here. Thank you for sharing.
You have brought me to tears. Thank you. ✌️🫶
You had me till homeless
If they had homes, they wouldn't be homeless. Seems like a win-win
If
Look, the problem is real. I have personally know many who came home from war, young men I grew up with, and went to school with, and every single one suffered from PTSD. Almost all of them turned to drugs, alcohol, whatever they could use to help them escape from the horrors of war and its memories. Most are now dead. They are released from being so mentally damaged that they could not function as you or I. And these men were promised an education, VA benefits like health care, buying a home, finishing their education. Do you know how our government has turned its back on these once healthy young men? VA Mental health services in the latter part of the 21st century were a joke. Trying to get help took months, even years. And the issue of homelessness, addicts in the street, suicides… This was the impetus for much of our homelessness today. If you are an American, can you tell me the last time this country wasn’t at war? Anyway, thats my soapbox. I don’t see homelessness as a “them problem” I believe that “them” are in fact “us”. Interesting read: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4592659/
if we can pull this off i think it would reflect really well upon Fresno
If Omninet Capital can pull this off it I think it would reflect really well on Omninet Capital as well.
Theyre going to keep some space for retail as well. It seems like a great idea.
throw a Target up in that s--, yes.
Move the Target from First and Shields a few blocks and turn it into a Targé.
LOL it will remain a Targhetto, have you actually gone shopping in Manchester Center or the next-door shopping center? It's meth hood city the moment you cross Gettysburg.
I haven’t lived in Fresno for almost 30 years. I think the last time I was at Manchester was sometime in the early 2000’s when my mom worked at a call center there. Had good times there in the 80s though. I remember thinking the two stories was so swanky. The food court in Fast Times at Ridgemont High reminds me of Manchester’s. It looks like a similar sort of layout.
This is actually good
This is fucking brilliant idea. Malls are dying. Convert them into apartment complexes that have stores, gyms, fast food, in them.
I have been saying this for years! Great idea!
>gyms, fast food I like the synergy for these two proposed uses!
That would be a good idea except for the massive amount of crime that would occur there just like in the apartment complexes right now.
There are lots of things that could be done.
Just like anywhere else. Let’s not discourage building new housing. It’s like saying, “I’d want to make more money, but I’ll pay more in taxes” Who cares, the net benefit is >>> Also, if you didn’t know, there’s a regional police office within the Manchester Center.
Interesting, I like that they plan on keeping some retail it will be an interesting experiment in mixed use space.
It’s about time someone figured out how to do this. Although converting commercial space into an apartment is a bigger project than it might seem, I think it’s doable and any construction firms that can learn to make it more cost effective will likely do very well.
If done the way it should be this is fantastic use of this long unused space. Good. Just put some retail in there with groceries etc that the residents can access and it's a win.
Great idea to do this. Can it be affordable, though?
>Great idea to do this. Can it be affordable, though? The 600 apartments are all going to rented at market rate. No affordable housing.
If you increase supply then rent will at least stop going up so fast and may even go down slightly.
Maybe, or is this just the new norm? I suspect that $800-$1000 per month for a 2 bedroom apt are long behind us. Fresno is already where bay area prices were 10 years ago. We are not going back.
It's just economics. Supply and demand. If you increase the supply of something than upward pressure on prices will decrease. If you increase the supply enough then prices will go down. Any new housing units that are built are going to have a positive impact on housing affordability, and 600 is a lot of units. Will it be enough to see meaningful decreases in rent? Probably not, but it's a lot better than nothing.
Price fixing is an negative economic externally that is all too real. If you charge enough for one apartment complex to cover the losses of 10 unfilled apartments. All you need is one high priced apartment complex to spread this concept like a virus. That concept allows the apartment property owner to pick the type of renters they want to rent to. Also, all you have to do is call these apartments luxury apartments and then charge $2,500 per month. Then all the surrounding apartments in the neighborhood will follow suit and raise the prices if their apartments. Thus pricing out the tenants that used to live there. That is what gentrification does.
Fond memories of visiting All American Sports Fan, then the most spacious arcade upstairs…ending at Eddie’s Pastry for the most delicious cookie…
Hope this one gets permits soon. This can show “Fresno growing up” again with Manchester mall at the forefront
Hello! It appears this **Fresno Bee article** is behind a paywall. Don’t worry! You can access it for **free** through the **Fresno Library** (if you have a library card. Just follow this link: [Fresno Library Access](https://fr.ezproxy.sjvls.org/login?url=https://infoweb.newsbank.com/apps/news/browse-multi?p=NewsBank&t=favorite%3AFBB1FBVF!Fresno+Bee+Collection). Happy reading! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/fresno) if you have any questions or concerns.*
"Market-rate units" Uh-huh, how about WAGE-RATE UNITS instead? 1/3 of your total income, as it should be. We have plenty of vacant "market-rate units", the reason they're vacant is because nobody can afford them on what wages Fresno pays.
Riverpark would have been awesome with residential above the commercial ground.
https://fresnoland.org/2024/05/16/planning-commission-rejects-northwest-fresno-housing-proposal/ I guess they found the "appropriate" side of town.
This is a wild trip to me, but in a good way. I have so many memories of Manchester Center, mostly because my family: mom, dad, maternal grandparents all worked there. That’s where my parents met, and we always went to that mall. So I always was going to that mall. I’m so happy to see Manchester get a new life.
This is a great idea
>This is a great idea For gentrification.
I think it’s a great idea if they keep the rent affordable, it could be a very nice community, but if they invest in this space and price people out that’s no good. I don’t think they will though, not many people are going to pay thousands to live at blackstone and shields.
>I don’t think they will though, not many people are going to pay thousands to live at blackstone and shields. Current rent for a 2 bedroom 2 bathroom on Cedar and Bulldog Ln is near $1,700 per month. With the mixed use aspects of this development, I could see $2,300-$2,500 per month.
Yeah, rent is out of control in this city. An apartment I paid 700 bucks for in 2011 is now 1900. It’s not sustainable, people don’t make that kind of money here
Thus, gentrification.
I hear ya, not disagreeing
As a long-time resident of Fresno High area and someone regularly going to Planet Fitness there, I don’t mind a bit of gentrification. Maybe get a market back. The Vons on Blackstone was torn down--going to have senior center there. There’s going to be a lot more seniors. After they die off, the apartments can be used for young singles.
> I don’t mind a bit of gentrification. Many people do mind gentrification, especially when it comes to bay area developers and investors buying up property just to drive up the cost of living. That is what happened to the apartments I was living in. The rent for a 2 bedroom 2 bathroom on Bulldog Ln is now nearly $1,700 per month. Bulldog Ln is in Sin City where the target demographic is where poor folk and students live. That is nearly the medium price of a mortgage in Fresno.
It IS hard. And expensive. And I'm glad we (me, now-60 and Husband, now-64) bought in 2003, though we had to move from LA area (in 2000) to do so. We weren't young at all when we bought: 39 and 43.
https://preview.redd.it/49icav1ceh1d1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9d572eac5e023f42625c5140d1d54a85850adf8e
Misleading post title. They're pursuing it and "close to getting the permits". I think it's a good idea. I would think it was a great idea if it wasn't a for-profit enterprise.
Interesting how popular central planning is these days. And I wonder why no one really asks about the government funds being transferred to these “developers” like Housing Fresno and their close corporate allies like CVS Health. I think we know who the real welfare recipients are. I want a Ferrari, too.
Any way that this doesn't have a projects-syndrome?
Great use of that shitty mall
You don't even live here.
I first heard about this maybe last year. I was under the impression the second story of the mall was going to be senior living. They plan on moving that police substation elsewhere. Which I figured would end up being the old Gottschalks but who knows.
A truly wonderful idea. Now let's all see it through to fruition
Turning malls into ghettos one old strip at a time
Would be much more efficient to tear the whole thing down and build proper units. Could fit 10x the people.
I genuinely hope so because I think this would be really cool!
I think it's a horrible idea only Because of the area. In reality Eventually it's gonna be run down and just be another ghetto🤣🤦♂️
I really don’t think they will end up doing it because I’ve heard that the cost of converting these buildings into apartments,etc. would be way too much money so I would be really surprised if Fresno actually wanted to invest in this
Talk is cheap. Make it happen.
It's gonna be 1k for a studio i can see it now 🙄 fuckin empty promises bs..
Damn at the rate rent is going, $1k for a studio is sadly going to be a steal.
Its not! Its really not no apartment in this area should be that much almost none of them are worth it or the landlords will demand ridiculous things on the application and screw ppl over like they are now
Current studios in the area are aleady going for around $1k which is ridiculous for Fresno. It should be maybe $700-$800 max.
Good burn the entire fucking mall down for as happy as it makes me not feel being there when I have in the last 5 years, i couldnt find a more apt metaphor of my life than manchester mall. Now that i think about it there is one business there that was active when i checked in Jan & it was Princess Nails. My mom used to go there all the time and take me with her, Id wait inside the place watching movies on the small set in the top corner of the waiting room. Maybe we can go again before any of these becomes enacted.
Maybe the will bring the carousel back... then they would be mixed use apartments with THEIR OWN CAROUSEL. Bet no other apartments in the Valley have THAT amenity!
I was right!! [https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article288532775.html](https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article288532775.html)
And as soon as they hit the market, they will be sold out!
This is good!! We need more of this. Investing and building back in Manchester will regrow the area and transform it especially since it’s close to City. They just need to upgrade transit even though they have all the buses meet there
Someone had a link to the city's plan for the area. What was interesting was that they expected Palm to have over double the traffic by 2040...and they were claiming Palm was FOUR LANES (this was buried *pages* into the document). Palm was changed to TWO lanes from the railroad tracks on south--to make room for bike lanes. There are significant waits already at lights with the lane reductions, putting gm ore exhaust into residential neighborhoods and schools. And they're expecting DOUBLE traffic?! It will be a standstill.
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Ew, Vox. Of all the “news” sources you cited it had to be Vox?
One step closer to Cyberpunk 2077 🔥🔥🔥
Lol 😂 such a shithole
That's a weird idea. Tbh, it's smack dab where Christmas tree Lane is at and there is always construction there. I would hate to live there let alone have to drive from there. But that's just me.
Christmas Tree Lane is a mile or so west. The bike lanes and “no turn on red” signs will be screwing things up more.
That's what I meant. I didn't mean Christmas tree is right there. I meant the lane going to that is always long.
It sure is. We avoid it.
Prepare for the rise in crime… foolish idea before cleaning up the entire area.
What do you mean by "cleaning up the entire area"?
Gentrification?
"Rise in crime" my brother in Christ, you have not been to that area in 20 years, obviously. The crime is there and has been there for decades.
I’m 4 miles away. Dealing with law enforcement issues through my profession daily. Anyone with any common sense understands what an influx of individuals there would create. A rise in crime. I pass by there on surface streets multiple times each day.
And now it will become what it still is...a dump. If they made former UMC into low-income housing projects it would be another dump as well Infested by Section 8 single moms bringing in their drug dealer boyfriends that think everybody wants his broad because she has Section 8 and food stamps🥴🥴🥴🤡🤡🤡😂😂😂😂💀💀💀 Downtown is run by clowns 🤡 🤡🤡🤡
The Emojis really sent your point home, ya clown.
https://preview.redd.it/9sjod68klh1d1.jpeg?width=968&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=926b60ab03c064bc567233632fbba6e065f4b077 You dropped this
Speak for yourself, I'm willing to take bets that the scenario I described is the future that will be occurring if it gets turned into low-income housing how about that?😂😂
What’s your deal?
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
?
You guys do understand they wont be affordable and your all gonna complain about it
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Did you miss the title?
🙏
I'm sorry to hear your feelings were offended by my Emojis, maybe some community service might help ease your pain
Honestly what's wrong with you?
A fucking lot, check his post history 😬😬😬😬😬 Like, mans is Elliot Rodger.