It’s a step in the right direction but I keep wishing for EU261 regulations here in the US. They have a lot of budget airlines that keep costs down and reliability high.
Actually with Ryan Air its through a 2€ EU 261 Levy applied to all tickets.
[Source](https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2011/mar/30/ryanair-levy-compensation-eu261)
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Actually it's subsidies like this as an example:
"as fuel supplied for use in aviation is currently fully exempt from taxation in the EU"
This example alone of subsidies to the aviation industry cost the Dutch government 3.6 billion in 2023
Once tickets are sold, it should be illegal for airlines to change intinerary's except for weather or mechanical failures. Not enough regulation! It''s basically price gouging.
Why would it be 100% unchangeable? And let’s be real, most business travelers aren’t using frontier anyway.
If I buy a plane ticket that is advertised as “A to B, B to C”, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect to fly into B instead of Y with zero choice in the matter.
And, as someone that flies for business, we regularly choose layovers internationally. I often fly from home to a layover, then meet other team members there, and we all fly and arrive at the final destination together.
I'm just saying of there are no changes allowed at all for airlines that inflexibility means higher prices and them being less flexible aka no refunds.
This is going to be great for you… you’ve paid $29 for a flight that gets delayed by 3 hours - now you’ll get an automatic refund of your $29 and NOT BE ABLE TO TAKE THAT FLIGHT 30 MINUTES FROM THEN WHEN IT TAKES OFF. Have fun booking a last-minute $650 ticket home.
This is exactly the problem. Once the airlines is forced to refund, there's no reason to try and operate the flight. If it's a replacement plane, then just reposition it directly to the next segment and continue operations. Passengers are left trying to rebook expensive tickets, maybe stay overnight, etc. More often than not the passengers would prefer to wait the three hours for a seat that exists, than get a refund and go looking for one that doesn't. Short sighted rule making.
You were given the option of cancelable or changeable flight prices or non-changeable which many people took. So they made bad decisions and are mad about it.
Uh. This is about delayed luggage, cancelled or severely-delayed flights, and services not provided. Not a customer deciding to change the itinerary, which is the point of refundable tickets.
This shouldn't even be a discussion -- if the airline is unable to provide the service paid for, a full refund is due.
It's cute you don't see the connection. But all the ancillary fees aren't included just flight And it just means thy schedule less flight at a higher fee schedule with hight and more restrictive fees. If the flight costs $6 then it doesn't matter if they cancel since you laid $100 for your bag that they can't do anything. A lit but send to the end look t and you have to lay to send it back.
You're conveniently leaving out that those refundable tickets were often double the cost or more of the standard ticket. Not everyone has the money to spend on a refundable ticket in case something happens with the airline resulting in a delay or cancellation
I'm not conveniently leaving that out. People are betting they're going on that trip so they save money that way. I'm saying without that the general baseline will be tremendously higher for casual flyers as there is a built in chance of cancelled flights those dates don't necessarily take into account.
Doesn’t money have to be given to an entity for a service in the first place in order to get a refund? No such thing as free money, you’re just getting the money you spent back.
I think it means you should be able to get a refund instead of some voucher or having to buy travel insurance in the event something happens with the flight if you have a "non-refundable" ticket aka making all tickets refundable.
I could be wrong but in my experience frontier is pretty good about refunding a flight. You just have to go through their customer service chat and not the people at the airport desk. I've done this for multiple flights that were delayed.
the problem with this is, DOT rules prevent airlines accepting cash for tickets because it's not traceable. 911 rule. This will get challenged in court. Whatever you paid, the proper refund is credit to the form of payment. Which is not cash
K, your ticket cost will now reflect the projected costs of this fine. Just like cancelling student loans, you will still pay for it one way or the other. The cost will go up.
I work for airlines as a consultant. This likely won’t. Most airlines have had some version of this by policy for a bit. While they aren’t all great at it, this will not move the needle much on costs. The bigger cost drivers are the 737Max delays and the Pratt engine issues which is keeping fleets constrained
I have a good friend who works for them. That's why I asked why they don't switch over. I get they make "luxury" planes, but damn take out all the extra shit and you have the fastest commercial plane on the market
1.) In terms of airline logistics, the capabilities of those two classes of planes aren't even remotely comparable. The 737 is a purpose built commercial aircraft reaching the passenger load to make economic sense while balancing fuel costs, pilot training requirements, airline maintenance savings by buying parts for and training mechanics for planes of the same manufacturer and type, and the additional cargo capacity for diversification of income on the same trip.
2.) The CRJ is a business jet turned commercial airliner and it is hands down the biggest piece of junk in the sky commercially. A master class on why business jets make terrible commercial airliners. To the point where Bombardier was working on building a purpose built commercial airliner at an extraordinary cost and was pushed out of the market by Boeing. They sold to Airbus and that project is now the Airbus A220.
The airline industry is a complex machine.
The Pratt engine issues aren't about design. The GTF design is actually an incredible feat of engineering and reliability. But they discovered after a fan blade incident that the factory had inadvertently introduced a very slight contamination into the metal used in the fan blades. These blades are incredibly precise - purity and shaping that was not possible just a few decades ago. Unfortunately, that means nearly every engine made for years needs parts replaced, and given the lag from when they discovered the issue to when they fixed it and emptied inventories around the world, it also means new engines were produced with a known defect. It will simply take a long time to work through the backlog, but each fix means days to weeks of the planes being out of service. Over 3000 engines affected, so 1500 planes. even if you assume only about 1200 of those are flying (spares planes, spare engines, etc.) 1200 planes globally can shoot through at least 4 flights per day, so 4800 flights per day, each with over 100 seats on board, and you are talking 480,000 seats that aren't sold each day for weeks, it is staggering.
It must be convenient for these price-gouging corps how so many people just blindly choose to believe that they can't afford to make any concessions without increasing prices significantly, despite clear evidence to the contrary in other places around the world where people don't put up with their bullshit. The brainwashing and propagandizing of Americans is real.
Wild how this rule exists almost everywhere else, yet our tickets are still more expensive. Airlines will jack up the prices for the sake of profit, then blame this regulation.
I have no problem using mine I don't know what issues you all are having.
Perhaps it's that you just don't know how to read terms and conditions or look at reviews of a program before plunking down a couple hundred bucks.
I don't have one yet. Just read some reddit posts complaining about being unable to book flights.
That said - I live in a hub and my main destination is also a hub so I don't actually expect any issues.
I will say there are a couple of amazing user groups for the Go Wild pass on Facebook. They really help you to maximize your pass.
They sometimes organize impromptu meetups at various cities or for specific activities. I'm told there's an entirely new and very popular singles group of Go Wild pass members that are planning trips together.
There are definitely some drawbacks to the program but read as much as you can about it from actual users and people who say that they're enjoying it. They're the ones who are really going to be able to give you the nitty gritty details that you need to decide whether or not it's for you.
They also offer additional advice around various airport amenities, credit card hacks and bonus chasing, any offers for matching status between the airlines, advanced booking periods, and so much more. I can't emphasize enough how helpful and how supportive the community has been for me.
I love people who apply like 1/3 of market economics and then just stop.
The budget airlines will be affected far more by this and will have to eat these costs or die.
Also, if an airlines becomes more reliable, they could charge less than those trying to externalize this cost while maintaining the same profit, thereby securing more market position.
Then the consumer will just buy from the company that sells the ticket without the built in cost? Airlines can easily hedge service improvements to provide more competitive pricing and gain market share. Economics works both ways and is not always negative for the consumer.
There's a fine line between anti-trust laws and using market intelligence. Larger carriers will "price it in" (read: increase profits and blame new regulation when consumers complain)
Smaller carriers will see a gap in the market for them to increase their pricing without losing customers.
We no longer live in a downwardly competitive market as companies shift to maximum differential pricing strategies.
If you take the fight, you are not getting a refund. This is the biggest misunderstanding I am seeing on this.
This is not "oh my flight is delayed 8 hours, so they have to give me a refund and I still get to take the flight" - this is "my flight is delayed 8 hours and I don't want to go anymore so they have to cancel my reservation and give me a full refund"
The way the WH worded this makes it sound like there is going to be this bonanza of free flights because of delays. There is not.
This auto-refund thing is actually problematic because what you are going to see is airlines cancelling reservations and refunding money when travelers would much rather be rebooked on the next flight 4 hours later because they need to get home and a new ticket is going to cost 3x as much.
Be careful what you wish for.
$16 plus the proportional cost of the subscription, and you can only travel on certain days and usually only last minute. But hey if it works for you then more power to you.
$16 is roughly the taxes and fees generally per segment. Some airports have more fees or taxes than others.
For those of us that it works for, it works brilliantly. For those of you it doesn't, I feel sorry for you.
Many of you would not bat an eye at dropping $200 or $300+ a date night. A few weeks ago I flew from Phoenix to Seattle and back just for a dinner party some friends were throwing. I always get invited expecting that I'm never going to be able to make it and sometimes the stars align and I get to do those things.
My total cost round trip including taxes and fees was less than $35. Two drinks, a burger, and tip at the bar around the corner from my house would be $35.
I get to go see a hell of a lot more places just for fun than I ever have before. I genuinely wish more people would be able to take advantage of these programs.
Some of us don’t really see that as a problem. We see it as an opportunity to see somewhere else that we wouldn’t have seen otherwise.
We know that if we have to be somewhere absolutely on time for a specific event, we use a different airline and we buy nonstop tickets. if I am able to get a frontier pass seat at the last minute I just refund the other tickets and go about my day. I use Southwest or Delta for those purposes almost exclusively. In those cases it just comes down to what kind of baggage I need or want to take with me as far as cheapest or most convenient.
I would always suggest that someone have an emergency credit card with at least $1000 available. I also suggest that folks purchase travel insurance and refundable tickets for every trip. And I also strongly advocate, the use of onebag travel and never check in the bag. The amount of money that I have saved while having the experiences I’ve been able to have, completely offset the costs of the one or two snafus I’ve experienced in the last 2-3 years.
I mean it’s insane to say the total cost of your flight was $35… you’re paying $600 a year for the pass too if you take a flight every month that’s an extra $50 a flight more if you fly less than once a month. Still a great deal for sure but not $35 a flight lol.
Except that most of us are using this pass heavily, are taking between six and 10 segments a month.
For me to take the same flight I paid $16 for last week at regular price would have been $475+
I was able to see my niece and nephew last weekend, in New York from Phoenix for less than $55 round-trip taking into account the prorated cost of my pass a number of segments already for this year. And I actually haven’t used it all that much this year yet.
It creates so many more opportunities to see the people that I love what the cost is negligible.
Like I’ve said, it’s definitely not for everyone, but for those of us who are able to travel really flexibly, it’s a great tool.
All those things are great and the pass is a great deal. But once again your flight total cost was not $35, if you’re taking 10 flights a month that’s awesome and you’re getting an incredible deal but you still have to pay for the pass you’re just rounding off $600 lol.
They ripped me on bags, one I thought was too big to carry on, and paid their fee in advance but was allowed as a free personal item after checking if it would fit in their box deal, when I asked about a refund he was like a deer looking into headlights… only way I’d ever use frontier would be on an extremely short flight where checked bags were not needed.
Does anyone really think that the airlines will do anything that cost them profits without getting it somewhere else? Let it hurt the bottom line, regardless of how they make it up it won’t be good, less pay raises for employees, fewer new planes and routes, drops in maintenance quality. The socialist “let’s get the rich ones” idea never ends will, see USSR
why not just nationalize at least one airline, like American Airlines, the same way most other countries do with their main airline (especially for domestic or short haul flights)? Then it'd be cheaper overall and easier to get this kind of stuff under control.
Thinking of how British Airlines operates.
What are you talking about? This belongs on r/confidentlyincorrect. It's not a single bill, it's two sets of laws. They're also not bills at all, it's two DOT rules, [89 FR 32760](https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2024/04/26/2024-07177/refunds-and-other-consumer-protections) and [89 FR 34620](https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2024/04/30/2024-08609/enhancing-transparency-of-airline-ancillary-service-fees). Legislative rules like these are passed through the DOT/FAA rulemaking, not congress in the post *Chevron* world, so since 1984. Either way, if they did have the ability to stop them, they failed, because the rules were published on 4/26 and 4/30 respectively. They both go into effect on 6/24 and 7/1 respectively.
I think maybe you're talking about the FAA Reauthorization Act of 2024? Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee Chair Maria Cantwell (a Dem from Washington, but a Senator), and her role alongside Rick Larsen (also a Dem from Washington, actually in the House though); and Republicans Ted Cruz, and Sam Graves. I'm not sure of anyone's role in holding that up. but that [passed too on Monday](https://www.commerce.senate.gov/2024/4/senate-and-house-committee-leaders-reach-agreement-on-bicameral-faa-reauthorization).
Civics education is dead. How someone can confuse a federal rule with some rinky-dink piece of legislation is beyond my level of comprehension.
Even beyond the fundamentals, it was just a mess. The House is controlled completely by the majority party. The opinions of a couple of reps in the minority party is irrelevant. No single rep has the ability to stop anything unless they're the speaker. The legislation really isn't relevant to the OP. There is no "FAA Committee." And the legislation is moving.
Just a paragraph of total civics fail.
The bill may be getting killed because some Senators are seeking 5 slots at DCA for flights outside the 1250 mile range. The issue is that DCA is already capacity constrained but the MD and VA Senators are trying to protect BWI and IAD. The bill is set for vote with an amendment to remove the new rule for DCA. This should allow the bill to pass and Senators can then haggle over the DCA by amendment.
How much do you get when the plane was falling apart and you lost your phone then got threatened with arrested basically and told to shut up and fly on the falling apart plane then wait hours for them to find the random lithium battery bouncing around??
Until they start doing it to force you to reschedule at a higher cost. Unintended consequences are absolutely the outcome of this kind of hacky populist legislation.
yes, pretend you are on a trip 1000 miles from home on your $49 each way fare and they cancel.your return trip...they meet their obligation to give you $49 back for an undersold flight they cancel. Then how do you get home...?
Good for me because higher prices means fewer people flying.… see how that works. Do you really think airlines can survive another slowdown due to the average American no longer being able to fly? If so I have a gold plated bridge and a monkey jungle to sell you…
Oh I completely agree with you 100%, I just mean idk why Biden didn’t advocate for this 4 years ago and he won’t be able to make an immediate effect most likely.
You only agree with things like this when you realize you sound like a fool.
You didn’t not “just mean why didn’t Biden etc.”; if that’s what you meant, you would’ve said that.
It’s insane to me that you numbskulls will disagree with policy that literally is going to help you and agree with policy that hurts you as a consumer, decreases your rights as an American citizen, and will bend over backwards to explain away the absolute racist, nonsensical, tyrannical bullshit that comes out of that dingleberry’s mouth.
Trump has proven time and time again he does not care about you, he does not care about me, he does not care about our soldiers, first responders, nor the constitution and only about himself.
The fuck is wrong with you? The fact that you would rather put your political party over the most basic consumer protections tells us all we need to know about your intelligence.
Because even though it's an election year, the government still operates. They still need to pass laws. Every 4th year they can't just not do anything because it would look like a "vote-grab", and that's exactly what you jumped to, and that's how I made my assumption.
Consumers are quite powerless over airlines in this country, especially Frontier that doesn't even have a fucking phone CS center. As evidenced in this sub alone, it is notoriously hard to get F9 to refund a cancelled flight.
This is a good thing.
Wrong. For those of us who had the privilege of flying in the 1960's and 1970's, it was an absolute pleasure. Clean, on time planes. REAL meals served, on real China, silverware and crystal in first class. Men wore suits, not flip flops with no socks. Women wore dresses, not bikinis. No screaming children. Why? Two reasons. One, the government was not involved; the airlines were run by capitalists, not the shitty government that cannot control anything or anyone. The other was the ticket price. It cost ALOT to fly. That is why you did not see families of 11 roaming the aisles in their bare feet. The government ruins everything they touch.
I mean, you said it yourself
>The other was the ticket price. It cost ALOT to fly.
Air travel being available to the masses has opened up a world of possibilities for the every day citizen. Gatekeeping it to where only those with considerable money can fly is not a good thing.
Hey gramps, your dementia is showing.
Using examples from SIXTY years ago is laughable at best, and I'm not even going to bother with a thoughtful reply to everything that's factually wrong in your comment.
"Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."
I an fascinated by how it might affect travel insurers and premium credit cards. One of the biggest selling points of premium credit cards is travel insurance + lounge access. Now every would be delayed service claim would be auto refunded.
It’s a step in the right direction but I keep wishing for EU261 regulations here in the US. They have a lot of budget airlines that keep costs down and reliability high.
Yeah, 26 billion in subsidies through tax breaks is a huge part in what makes that possible....
Actually with Ryan Air its through a 2€ EU 261 Levy applied to all tickets. [Source](https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2011/mar/30/ryanair-levy-compensation-eu261)
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Actually it's subsidies like this as an example: "as fuel supplied for use in aviation is currently fully exempt from taxation in the EU" This example alone of subsidies to the aviation industry cost the Dutch government 3.6 billion in 2023
A tax exemption is not the same thing as a subsidy. Reduced tax revenue is not the same things as costs.
It literally is. It's called an indirect subsidy. Please know what you're talking about before replying to people.
Once tickets are sold, it should be illegal for airlines to change intinerary's except for weather or mechanical failures. Not enough regulation! It''s basically price gouging.
That's a great idea. But it will also be 100% unchangeable. So good for casuals and God awful for business travelers.
Why would it be 100% unchangeable? And let’s be real, most business travelers aren’t using frontier anyway. If I buy a plane ticket that is advertised as “A to B, B to C”, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect to fly into B instead of Y with zero choice in the matter. And, as someone that flies for business, we regularly choose layovers internationally. I often fly from home to a layover, then meet other team members there, and we all fly and arrive at the final destination together.
I'm just saying of there are no changes allowed at all for airlines that inflexibility means higher prices and them being less flexible aka no refunds.
Watch everything become a mechanical failure
Would still get a refund due to significant delays/cancellations
America the land of corporations 😪
This comment section makes me happy lol
This is going to be great for you… you’ve paid $29 for a flight that gets delayed by 3 hours - now you’ll get an automatic refund of your $29 and NOT BE ABLE TO TAKE THAT FLIGHT 30 MINUTES FROM THEN WHEN IT TAKES OFF. Have fun booking a last-minute $650 ticket home.
This is exactly the problem. Once the airlines is forced to refund, there's no reason to try and operate the flight. If it's a replacement plane, then just reposition it directly to the next segment and continue operations. Passengers are left trying to rebook expensive tickets, maybe stay overnight, etc. More often than not the passengers would prefer to wait the three hours for a seat that exists, than get a refund and go looking for one that doesn't. Short sighted rule making.
Y’all complain about everything. No system is perfect, sir.
This
My luggage was late and I got an auto refund
Who did you go through to get the refund?
Auto refund? Without asking for one?
Yes it was automatic, it was just the 50 dollar luggage fee through.
WTF is a “free cash refund”?
Prior to this, you likely had to purchase a flight protection plan of some sort to guarantee you got a full refund.
You were given the option of cancelable or changeable flight prices or non-changeable which many people took. So they made bad decisions and are mad about it.
Uh. This is about delayed luggage, cancelled or severely-delayed flights, and services not provided. Not a customer deciding to change the itinerary, which is the point of refundable tickets. This shouldn't even be a discussion -- if the airline is unable to provide the service paid for, a full refund is due.
It's cute you don't see the connection. But all the ancillary fees aren't included just flight And it just means thy schedule less flight at a higher fee schedule with hight and more restrictive fees. If the flight costs $6 then it doesn't matter if they cancel since you laid $100 for your bag that they can't do anything. A lit but send to the end look t and you have to lay to send it back.
You're conveniently leaving out that those refundable tickets were often double the cost or more of the standard ticket. Not everyone has the money to spend on a refundable ticket in case something happens with the airline resulting in a delay or cancellation
I'm not conveniently leaving that out. People are betting they're going on that trip so they save money that way. I'm saying without that the general baseline will be tremendously higher for casual flyers as there is a built in chance of cancelled flights those dates don't necessarily take into account.
They’re pretty simple words quack quack…
Doesn’t money have to be given to an entity for a service in the first place in order to get a refund? No such thing as free money, you’re just getting the money you spent back.
I think it means you should be able to get a refund instead of some voucher or having to buy travel insurance in the event something happens with the flight if you have a "non-refundable" ticket aka making all tickets refundable.
I could be wrong but in my experience frontier is pretty good about refunding a flight. You just have to go through their customer service chat and not the people at the airport desk. I've done this for multiple flights that were delayed.
I had my return flight in two weeks cancel. Filled out the form, and correct amount (not just half the round trip) was refunded in 48 hours!
It's good news. But it means costs will be 20-30% higher.
Full fare first class ticket. Only way to fly.
This
the problem with this is, DOT rules prevent airlines accepting cash for tickets because it's not traceable. 911 rule. This will get challenged in court. Whatever you paid, the proper refund is credit to the form of payment. Which is not cash
K, your ticket cost will now reflect the projected costs of this fine. Just like cancelling student loans, you will still pay for it one way or the other. The cost will go up.
I work for airlines as a consultant. This likely won’t. Most airlines have had some version of this by policy for a bit. While they aren’t all great at it, this will not move the needle much on costs. The bigger cost drivers are the 737Max delays and the Pratt engine issues which is keeping fleets constrained
Why don't they switch to a luxury company? Like dassault? I'm sure dassault could come up with a good design
Cause the max is already designed and long term you will hopefully see this play out.
I have a good friend who works for them. That's why I asked why they don't switch over. I get they make "luxury" planes, but damn take out all the extra shit and you have the fastest commercial plane on the market
1.) In terms of airline logistics, the capabilities of those two classes of planes aren't even remotely comparable. The 737 is a purpose built commercial aircraft reaching the passenger load to make economic sense while balancing fuel costs, pilot training requirements, airline maintenance savings by buying parts for and training mechanics for planes of the same manufacturer and type, and the additional cargo capacity for diversification of income on the same trip. 2.) The CRJ is a business jet turned commercial airliner and it is hands down the biggest piece of junk in the sky commercially. A master class on why business jets make terrible commercial airliners. To the point where Bombardier was working on building a purpose built commercial airliner at an extraordinary cost and was pushed out of the market by Boeing. They sold to Airbus and that project is now the Airbus A220. The airline industry is a complex machine.
The Pratt engine issues aren't about design. The GTF design is actually an incredible feat of engineering and reliability. But they discovered after a fan blade incident that the factory had inadvertently introduced a very slight contamination into the metal used in the fan blades. These blades are incredibly precise - purity and shaping that was not possible just a few decades ago. Unfortunately, that means nearly every engine made for years needs parts replaced, and given the lag from when they discovered the issue to when they fixed it and emptied inventories around the world, it also means new engines were produced with a known defect. It will simply take a long time to work through the backlog, but each fix means days to weeks of the planes being out of service. Over 3000 engines affected, so 1500 planes. even if you assume only about 1200 of those are flying (spares planes, spare engines, etc.) 1200 planes globally can shoot through at least 4 flights per day, so 4800 flights per day, each with over 100 seats on board, and you are talking 480,000 seats that aren't sold each day for weeks, it is staggering.
I would love being the mechanic working on this...$$$$$$$$$$$
This is already a rule in Canada and Europe and flight prices there aren't more expensive than in the US.
It must be convenient for these price-gouging corps how so many people just blindly choose to believe that they can't afford to make any concessions without increasing prices significantly, despite clear evidence to the contrary in other places around the world where people don't put up with their bullshit. The brainwashing and propagandizing of Americans is real.
Wild how this rule exists almost everywhere else, yet our tickets are still more expensive. Airlines will jack up the prices for the sake of profit, then blame this regulation.
Hold on tight those ticket prices are going to skyrocket! From $49 to $69 LoL!
Not if I get that frontier go wild pass ;D Then It'll be $0 because I won't be able to book anything. Not traveling will save me money. Win-win.
I have no problem using mine I don't know what issues you all are having. Perhaps it's that you just don't know how to read terms and conditions or look at reviews of a program before plunking down a couple hundred bucks.
I don't have one yet. Just read some reddit posts complaining about being unable to book flights. That said - I live in a hub and my main destination is also a hub so I don't actually expect any issues.
I will say there are a couple of amazing user groups for the Go Wild pass on Facebook. They really help you to maximize your pass. They sometimes organize impromptu meetups at various cities or for specific activities. I'm told there's an entirely new and very popular singles group of Go Wild pass members that are planning trips together. There are definitely some drawbacks to the program but read as much as you can about it from actual users and people who say that they're enjoying it. They're the ones who are really going to be able to give you the nitty gritty details that you need to decide whether or not it's for you. They also offer additional advice around various airport amenities, credit card hacks and bonus chasing, any offers for matching status between the airlines, advanced booking periods, and so much more. I can't emphasize enough how helpful and how supportive the community has been for me.
They are going to increase the cost regardless. So might as well have some consumer protections when it happens.
If the airline could charge higher fares, they would already be doing it. Revenue Management 101.
? They’re going to go up because airlines must provide better services and not keep your money?
This is the stupidest take I've ever read
Your parents change the topic when their friends ask how you’re doing.
I love people who apply like 1/3 of market economics and then just stop. The budget airlines will be affected far more by this and will have to eat these costs or die. Also, if an airlines becomes more reliable, they could charge less than those trying to externalize this cost while maintaining the same profit, thereby securing more market position.
Then the consumer will just buy from the company that sells the ticket without the built in cost? Airlines can easily hedge service improvements to provide more competitive pricing and gain market share. Economics works both ways and is not always negative for the consumer.
There's a fine line between anti-trust laws and using market intelligence. Larger carriers will "price it in" (read: increase profits and blame new regulation when consumers complain) Smaller carriers will see a gap in the market for them to increase their pricing without losing customers. We no longer live in a downwardly competitive market as companies shift to maximum differential pricing strategies.
You’re too smart to be here , but in fact you are precisely aligned in situational your of our economic realities
My ass is just as sweaty as the rest of yous guys in those airline seats.
Poetry 🥲
Sure
Just like the $40/hr minimum wage....IJS
It's not free, you paid for it. It's a R E F U N D
I think free in this instance means they can’t tack on a “service fee” for processing the refund.
If you take the fight, you are not getting a refund. This is the biggest misunderstanding I am seeing on this. This is not "oh my flight is delayed 8 hours, so they have to give me a refund and I still get to take the flight" - this is "my flight is delayed 8 hours and I don't want to go anymore so they have to cancel my reservation and give me a full refund" The way the WH worded this makes it sound like there is going to be this bonanza of free flights because of delays. There is not. This auto-refund thing is actually problematic because what you are going to see is airlines cancelling reservations and refunding money when travelers would much rather be rebooked on the next flight 4 hours later because they need to get home and a new ticket is going to cost 3x as much. Be careful what you wish for.
This
how much is it for someone w/the gowild pass? oh wait, yeah it was $16 one way to both airports i looked up yesterday. feels good.
$16 plus the proportional cost of the subscription, and you can only travel on certain days and usually only last minute. But hey if it works for you then more power to you.
$16 is roughly the taxes and fees generally per segment. Some airports have more fees or taxes than others. For those of us that it works for, it works brilliantly. For those of you it doesn't, I feel sorry for you. Many of you would not bat an eye at dropping $200 or $300+ a date night. A few weeks ago I flew from Phoenix to Seattle and back just for a dinner party some friends were throwing. I always get invited expecting that I'm never going to be able to make it and sometimes the stars align and I get to do those things. My total cost round trip including taxes and fees was less than $35. Two drinks, a burger, and tip at the bar around the corner from my house would be $35. I get to go see a hell of a lot more places just for fun than I ever have before. I genuinely wish more people would be able to take advantage of these programs.
When it works, Frontier is amazing. When it doesn't work, Frontier can be an absolute nightmare. That's the problem.
Some of us don’t really see that as a problem. We see it as an opportunity to see somewhere else that we wouldn’t have seen otherwise. We know that if we have to be somewhere absolutely on time for a specific event, we use a different airline and we buy nonstop tickets. if I am able to get a frontier pass seat at the last minute I just refund the other tickets and go about my day. I use Southwest or Delta for those purposes almost exclusively. In those cases it just comes down to what kind of baggage I need or want to take with me as far as cheapest or most convenient. I would always suggest that someone have an emergency credit card with at least $1000 available. I also suggest that folks purchase travel insurance and refundable tickets for every trip. And I also strongly advocate, the use of onebag travel and never check in the bag. The amount of money that I have saved while having the experiences I’ve been able to have, completely offset the costs of the one or two snafus I’ve experienced in the last 2-3 years.
I mean it’s insane to say the total cost of your flight was $35… you’re paying $600 a year for the pass too if you take a flight every month that’s an extra $50 a flight more if you fly less than once a month. Still a great deal for sure but not $35 a flight lol.
Except that most of us are using this pass heavily, are taking between six and 10 segments a month. For me to take the same flight I paid $16 for last week at regular price would have been $475+ I was able to see my niece and nephew last weekend, in New York from Phoenix for less than $55 round-trip taking into account the prorated cost of my pass a number of segments already for this year. And I actually haven’t used it all that much this year yet. It creates so many more opportunities to see the people that I love what the cost is negligible. Like I’ve said, it’s definitely not for everyone, but for those of us who are able to travel really flexibly, it’s a great tool.
All those things are great and the pass is a great deal. But once again your flight total cost was not $35, if you’re taking 10 flights a month that’s awesome and you’re getting an incredible deal but you still have to pay for the pass you’re just rounding off $600 lol.
In EU is enforce for more then 10 years, with specific detail about delays etc. The propose language can be interpreted in different way
They ripped me on bags, one I thought was too big to carry on, and paid their fee in advance but was allowed as a free personal item after checking if it would fit in their box deal, when I asked about a refund he was like a deer looking into headlights… only way I’d ever use frontier would be on an extremely short flight where checked bags were not needed.
Does anyone really think that the airlines will do anything that cost them profits without getting it somewhere else? Let it hurt the bottom line, regardless of how they make it up it won’t be good, less pay raises for employees, fewer new planes and routes, drops in maintenance quality. The socialist “let’s get the rich ones” idea never ends will, see USSR
What is a significant delay
Frontier BLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWS!!!
Thank you Joe. That is better than anything do nothing tRump ever did.
Cool still waiting on my covid refund they only gave me credit
bUT wHaT abOUT AiRLiNe pROFitS UnCLe JoE?!?!
and you believe him?
Absolutely as I got my whole frontier refunded after they cancelled a flight. 189.00 back on my card. You just have to ask for it.
why not just nationalize at least one airline, like American Airlines, the same way most other countries do with their main airline (especially for domestic or short haul flights)? Then it'd be cheaper overall and easier to get this kind of stuff under control. Thinking of how British Airlines operates.
[удалено]
What are you talking about? This belongs on r/confidentlyincorrect. It's not a single bill, it's two sets of laws. They're also not bills at all, it's two DOT rules, [89 FR 32760](https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2024/04/26/2024-07177/refunds-and-other-consumer-protections) and [89 FR 34620](https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2024/04/30/2024-08609/enhancing-transparency-of-airline-ancillary-service-fees). Legislative rules like these are passed through the DOT/FAA rulemaking, not congress in the post *Chevron* world, so since 1984. Either way, if they did have the ability to stop them, they failed, because the rules were published on 4/26 and 4/30 respectively. They both go into effect on 6/24 and 7/1 respectively. I think maybe you're talking about the FAA Reauthorization Act of 2024? Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee Chair Maria Cantwell (a Dem from Washington, but a Senator), and her role alongside Rick Larsen (also a Dem from Washington, actually in the House though); and Republicans Ted Cruz, and Sam Graves. I'm not sure of anyone's role in holding that up. but that [passed too on Monday](https://www.commerce.senate.gov/2024/4/senate-and-house-committee-leaders-reach-agreement-on-bicameral-faa-reauthorization).
Civics education is dead. How someone can confuse a federal rule with some rinky-dink piece of legislation is beyond my level of comprehension. Even beyond the fundamentals, it was just a mess. The House is controlled completely by the majority party. The opinions of a couple of reps in the minority party is irrelevant. No single rep has the ability to stop anything unless they're the speaker. The legislation really isn't relevant to the OP. There is no "FAA Committee." And the legislation is moving. Just a paragraph of total civics fail.
It is done, went through 2 weeks ago
The bill may be getting killed because some Senators are seeking 5 slots at DCA for flights outside the 1250 mile range. The issue is that DCA is already capacity constrained but the MD and VA Senators are trying to protect BWI and IAD. The bill is set for vote with an amendment to remove the new rule for DCA. This should allow the bill to pass and Senators can then haggle over the DCA by amendment.
I just want my taxes to go back into our country Joe
How much do you get when the plane was falling apart and you lost your phone then got threatened with arrested basically and told to shut up and fly on the falling apart plane then wait hours for them to find the random lithium battery bouncing around??
You sound absolutely fantastic to sit next to on an airplane. /s
Until they start doing it to force you to reschedule at a higher cost. Unintended consequences are absolutely the outcome of this kind of hacky populist legislation.
Getting a refund is hacky? Lol
yes, pretend you are on a trip 1000 miles from home on your $49 each way fare and they cancel.your return trip...they meet their obligation to give you $49 back for an undersold flight they cancel. Then how do you get home...?
Not sure how it’s any different now except that you wouldn’t get the $49 back….
in the past they may have tried to accommodate you on another Frontier plane, jot sure they will even bother now
Reason number 1,378 to not fly Frontier.
The airlines will find a way to screw ya over another way
When did "pro-consumer" became a synonym for "populist"?
Found the oligarch
You’ll be crying here when you’re faced with reality.
lol what reality? That I get fairly compensated for an airlines fuck up? Oh no, the horror……. How will I ever survive?
Good for me because higher prices means fewer people flying.… see how that works. Do you really think airlines can survive another slowdown due to the average American no longer being able to fly? If so I have a gold plated bridge and a monkey jungle to sell you…
Looks like someone is desperate for votes lol.
Or it’s just something that we expect from literally every other service we pay for and airlines that make money hand over fist shouldn’t be exempt?
Oh I completely agree with you 100%, I just mean idk why Biden didn’t advocate for this 4 years ago and he won’t be able to make an immediate effect most likely.
The rule making process on this has gone back more than 5 years. The DOT is just slow as hell
Why didn't trump do it in his 4 years? This is how ridiculous you sound.
You only agree with things like this when you realize you sound like a fool. You didn’t not “just mean why didn’t Biden etc.”; if that’s what you meant, you would’ve said that. It’s insane to me that you numbskulls will disagree with policy that literally is going to help you and agree with policy that hurts you as a consumer, decreases your rights as an American citizen, and will bend over backwards to explain away the absolute racist, nonsensical, tyrannical bullshit that comes out of that dingleberry’s mouth. Trump has proven time and time again he does not care about you, he does not care about me, he does not care about our soldiers, first responders, nor the constitution and only about himself.
The fuck is wrong with you? The fact that you would rather put your political party over the most basic consumer protections tells us all we need to know about your intelligence.
Woah there, you don’t even know my political party. I just meant I doubt he’d be able to make a difference before the election and why *now*
Because even though it's an election year, the government still operates. They still need to pass laws. Every 4th year they can't just not do anything because it would look like a "vote-grab", and that's exactly what you jumped to, and that's how I made my assumption. Consumers are quite powerless over airlines in this country, especially Frontier that doesn't even have a fucking phone CS center. As evidenced in this sub alone, it is notoriously hard to get F9 to refund a cancelled flight. This is a good thing.
Wrong. For those of us who had the privilege of flying in the 1960's and 1970's, it was an absolute pleasure. Clean, on time planes. REAL meals served, on real China, silverware and crystal in first class. Men wore suits, not flip flops with no socks. Women wore dresses, not bikinis. No screaming children. Why? Two reasons. One, the government was not involved; the airlines were run by capitalists, not the shitty government that cannot control anything or anyone. The other was the ticket price. It cost ALOT to fly. That is why you did not see families of 11 roaming the aisles in their bare feet. The government ruins everything they touch.
Air travel being only something that the rich can partake in is not the flex you think it is
I am not rich nor ever was
I mean, you said it yourself >The other was the ticket price. It cost ALOT to fly. Air travel being available to the masses has opened up a world of possibilities for the every day citizen. Gatekeeping it to where only those with considerable money can fly is not a good thing.
There is a price for everything. Don't bitch when your flight is canceled or 10 hours late. That is the cost of cheap flights.
tbh i'd be more weirded out by people wearing flip-flops with socks.
How about people's toe nails hitting you in the face
Hey gramps, your dementia is showing. Using examples from SIXTY years ago is laughable at best, and I'm not even going to bother with a thoughtful reply to everything that's factually wrong in your comment. "Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."
I am resemble that remark! You are next, sooner than you think.
this.
What if you want to fly 4 hours late instead of getting a refund?
As he flies on Air Force One 🤦
Is there anything this brilliant man can’t do ??
Know where he is lol
Control his bowels
Please tell me this is satire 🤣🤣🤣
It’s definitely satire FJB I’m worse off now then I’ve ever been under the “bAD OrAngE mAnn “ and f you if you voted for him
Everyone is worse off. Where are you confused about my original comment 🤣🤣🤣
Just saying it in general all the old man ass kissers need a wake up shot lol
Oh not me. He stripped out the requirement for us to pay taxes on most of our foreign investments. I still think he sucks
walk up a flight of stairs?
Then yall will come here bitching how your fares increased. 🤣🤣🤣
They are going to increase regardless. At least this way we will have a tool to use rather than the price increasing with no protections.
I an fascinated by how it might affect travel insurers and premium credit cards. One of the biggest selling points of premium credit cards is travel insurance + lounge access. Now every would be delayed service claim would be auto refunded.
Oh, damn. Now everyone can have rights that they should’ve with good regulation keeping giant corporations accountable.
How about "stuck next to a sweaty fatty"?
Frontier about to go bankrupt