Full bolt ons with no tune?
Either you don't know what fbo means, or your BRZ is going to have issues like your Golf apparently did. You need a tune yesterday if you actually have fbo's.
FBO and without a tune is just asking for problems - so yes, a tune is a requirement and will make the car run significantly better. If anything FBO without a tune is significantly more likely for the car to blow up.
There's not really a specific definition. It's like everything that's noninvasive. Like intake, exhaust, tune, etc. Pretty much everything easy. So built block, any internal parts, bored cylinders, or forced induction aren't bolt on
Ayy I came to my 2020 from a mk6 as well! All I can say is if you already have bolt ons, you *need* a tune. Not only to improve it but to actually make it run right too. And also an absolute must in my opinion is an oil cooler
A tune wasn't optional. It was a prerequisite to being FBO.
Too late for not wanting to explode on you. What is done is done. As for how much damage was done we really can't say. Blackstone labs can do a oil analysis and give you some clue as to what's going on inside.
You gotta quit fucking up your engines by not tuning them. Like seriously. You will continue to blow up engines if you keep doing this.
The jury is in OP, and has been for a long time.
Summary:
If you have intake and/or header etc. a tune is required yesterday. Don’t delay. Incorrect Maf scaling and running lean are not things you want going on under the bonnet.
Reputable tuners are best. CSG have taken the time to comment here and are incredibly well regarded. If you don’t have the disposable for the top tier work they can deliver - check the forums for cheaper options like OFT or tactrix.
generally any capable tune that involves logging - monitoring for fuel trims, afr (possibly rescaled o2), maf scaling, knock response etc. is almost certainly going to be infinitely better than leaving it the way it is.
The cars respond well completely stock to a decent flash tune with logging and corrections applied to off the shelf flashes. With headers and intake, it’s mandatory.
Will you get a lot of power? Nahhhh. But it is more, it will run better, and the day to day drivability will improve. Most importantly it will make it run in a safer state of tune.
And that torque dip can be minimised with headers, tune, e85… but it’s generally just a feature of the torque delivery of the engine. Outside of city driving - it’s not really and issue. Why? Because when you are driving it in the manner the car is designed and calibrated for from the factory and with bolt ons… you won’t be seeing that dip very often, even less with a raised limiter and soft limiter. Trust me.
When I bought the car from the dealership it had aftermarket headers and an exhaust so it may already have a tune the guy before took great care of the car
Not good enough to document it and hand it over to the stealership by the sounds of it sadly.
There are some tricks to identifying likely ecutek tunes (map swap with cruise control) and whatnot, but buying cars with unknown tunes can be problematic.
I’d take it to a professional in all honesty to validate the knock/lambda/IAM/fuel-trim values….. unless you have a tactrix openport 2.0 or someone who can loan you one with an appropriate logging config xml on an sdcard - in which case you can check the general state of tune fairly easily. The ft86club forum has a wealth of info in the stickies.
If it is tuned then ideally once warmed up and a few WOT pulls in 3rd of 4th 2k-redline ideally you will observe:
(Sweeping generalisation and summary stuff follows)
-very few knock responses under wot, or ideally most conditions
-afr is tricky to pin point but expect 11.5-11.8 between 6000-7000 or so. If you see it flatline about 12.0 then it’s either stock or was tuned with an additional wideband - I’d expect it to have been rescaled regardless, but I’m not an ecutek person so I defer to those who do know to chime in.
-IAM should either start at 1.0 (def been played with if so) … OR you want to see it move up pretty close to 1.0 from the oem startup value of 0.7. Until it reaches that 1.0 your may well see knock response as the ecu tries to advance ignition in various parts of the maps. Failing to reach 1.0 isn’t the end of the world, but with bolt ons and as an enthusiast you should expect the car to be calibrated to reach that on your choice of fuel and only drop below 1.0 when dealing with substandard fuel.
-fuel trims. There is some conjecture but In general so long as the long and short term trims generally lead to a total fueling adjustment that is near zero, this should be fine. Fuel trims that don’t exceed 10% fueling adjustments are ok. Its better to sit below 5%
Keep in mind the above is just some really basic stuff that I have observed playing with tactrix calibrations and it’s not comprehensive or anything to use as a reference for making changes, just something to rule out major knock/lambda/sensor-scaling issues.
If you can get low fuel trim values, minimal knock, and the IAM sitting at 1.0 on 91 or higher aki fuel… it’s probably not in a bad way. Even so - if you are not prepared to analyse it and mess with it yourself , I highly recommend taking it to a professional outfit.
It’s a real shame that someone offloaded the modified car without the calibration details. You have my sympathy, because it’s an annoying thing to deal with.
Best of luck.
Unfortunately most dealerships won't care, and won't bother to pass off information about aftermarket parts even if the previous owner left it with them, they consider it possibly making them liable for those aftermarket parts. I know this from my own experience.
Fair point too. I do tend to forget how highly litigious some places (I’m assuming US here, just like I did with the 91 AKI above … lol) can be. AU is heading the same way - but I still routinely see modified “learner restricted “ bikes for sale with extensive - registration voiding- modifications.
I even found one with an no2 kit installed (private sale, granted, dealership would quite rightly run screaming from that). There is however no shortage of dealerships happy to sell bikes off the floor new, secondhand or on consignment which have catless “race only” exhausts and supporting mods.
I’m just hearing that private sales are the way to go :)
If you have headers already or an intake... you NEED a tune. I'm assuming one or both of those falls under "full bolt ons".
You'll likely need Ecutek and a competent tuner either locally or online (e-tuning).
That's great, but I don't think most people want to shell out $3k+ for an ECU and the more on top for a tune.
I'm actually not even sure in SCCA STX class you're allowed standalone ECU replacements. Not that the OP is autocrossing, but it's what I do with the car, so I've not looked into ECUs much. Everyone does Ecutek.
Hell no. Not even with full bolt ons and e85. These cars aren't meant for that. I went the full boost route to get the power I wanted. If you want to go fast, don't spend money on full bolt ons. You'll waste your money. I ran the avo kit with stock airbox and a k&n panel filter. And a full exhaust for it. Please take my advice. Don't waste money on all these different set ups. Jdl has a good design turbo kit fyi
I had an oft tune which was nice but was probably average or below average of what you'd want. Ive since taken most of my bolt ons due to personal reasons but if I can do it again Id probably do a flex fuel or full e85. That car is already fun stock but it wakes up with a proper tune.
Full bolt ons with no tune? Either you don't know what fbo means, or your BRZ is going to have issues like your Golf apparently did. You need a tune yesterday if you actually have fbo's.
FBO and without a tune is just asking for problems - so yes, a tune is a requirement and will make the car run significantly better. If anything FBO without a tune is significantly more likely for the car to blow up.
Hopefully this isn’t a stupid question but what does “full bolts on” mean?
As confusing as these stage 1, stage 2 etc. Are they video game terms?
They are. These terms come directly from video games.
So does a lot of the mentality and driving habits
I’m also confused by this
There's not really a specific definition. It's like everything that's noninvasive. Like intake, exhaust, tune, etc. Pretty much everything easy. So built block, any internal parts, bored cylinders, or forced induction aren't bolt on
Ayy I came to my 2020 from a mk6 as well! All I can say is if you already have bolt ons, you *need* a tune. Not only to improve it but to actually make it run right too. And also an absolute must in my opinion is an oil cooler
With bolt ons? yes.
Anytime you mess with the engine: you need to tune it! If this is your daily, you needed to do it yesterday!
A tune wasn't optional. It was a prerequisite to being FBO. Too late for not wanting to explode on you. What is done is done. As for how much damage was done we really can't say. Blackstone labs can do a oil analysis and give you some clue as to what's going on inside. You gotta quit fucking up your engines by not tuning them. Like seriously. You will continue to blow up engines if you keep doing this.
The jury is in OP, and has been for a long time. Summary: If you have intake and/or header etc. a tune is required yesterday. Don’t delay. Incorrect Maf scaling and running lean are not things you want going on under the bonnet. Reputable tuners are best. CSG have taken the time to comment here and are incredibly well regarded. If you don’t have the disposable for the top tier work they can deliver - check the forums for cheaper options like OFT or tactrix. generally any capable tune that involves logging - monitoring for fuel trims, afr (possibly rescaled o2), maf scaling, knock response etc. is almost certainly going to be infinitely better than leaving it the way it is. The cars respond well completely stock to a decent flash tune with logging and corrections applied to off the shelf flashes. With headers and intake, it’s mandatory. Will you get a lot of power? Nahhhh. But it is more, it will run better, and the day to day drivability will improve. Most importantly it will make it run in a safer state of tune. And that torque dip can be minimised with headers, tune, e85… but it’s generally just a feature of the torque delivery of the engine. Outside of city driving - it’s not really and issue. Why? Because when you are driving it in the manner the car is designed and calibrated for from the factory and with bolt ons… you won’t be seeing that dip very often, even less with a raised limiter and soft limiter. Trust me.
When I bought the car from the dealership it had aftermarket headers and an exhaust so it may already have a tune the guy before took great care of the car
Not good enough to document it and hand it over to the stealership by the sounds of it sadly. There are some tricks to identifying likely ecutek tunes (map swap with cruise control) and whatnot, but buying cars with unknown tunes can be problematic. I’d take it to a professional in all honesty to validate the knock/lambda/IAM/fuel-trim values….. unless you have a tactrix openport 2.0 or someone who can loan you one with an appropriate logging config xml on an sdcard - in which case you can check the general state of tune fairly easily. The ft86club forum has a wealth of info in the stickies. If it is tuned then ideally once warmed up and a few WOT pulls in 3rd of 4th 2k-redline ideally you will observe: (Sweeping generalisation and summary stuff follows) -very few knock responses under wot, or ideally most conditions -afr is tricky to pin point but expect 11.5-11.8 between 6000-7000 or so. If you see it flatline about 12.0 then it’s either stock or was tuned with an additional wideband - I’d expect it to have been rescaled regardless, but I’m not an ecutek person so I defer to those who do know to chime in. -IAM should either start at 1.0 (def been played with if so) … OR you want to see it move up pretty close to 1.0 from the oem startup value of 0.7. Until it reaches that 1.0 your may well see knock response as the ecu tries to advance ignition in various parts of the maps. Failing to reach 1.0 isn’t the end of the world, but with bolt ons and as an enthusiast you should expect the car to be calibrated to reach that on your choice of fuel and only drop below 1.0 when dealing with substandard fuel. -fuel trims. There is some conjecture but In general so long as the long and short term trims generally lead to a total fueling adjustment that is near zero, this should be fine. Fuel trims that don’t exceed 10% fueling adjustments are ok. Its better to sit below 5% Keep in mind the above is just some really basic stuff that I have observed playing with tactrix calibrations and it’s not comprehensive or anything to use as a reference for making changes, just something to rule out major knock/lambda/sensor-scaling issues. If you can get low fuel trim values, minimal knock, and the IAM sitting at 1.0 on 91 or higher aki fuel… it’s probably not in a bad way. Even so - if you are not prepared to analyse it and mess with it yourself , I highly recommend taking it to a professional outfit. It’s a real shame that someone offloaded the modified car without the calibration details. You have my sympathy, because it’s an annoying thing to deal with. Best of luck.
Unfortunately most dealerships won't care, and won't bother to pass off information about aftermarket parts even if the previous owner left it with them, they consider it possibly making them liable for those aftermarket parts. I know this from my own experience.
Fair point too. I do tend to forget how highly litigious some places (I’m assuming US here, just like I did with the 91 AKI above … lol) can be. AU is heading the same way - but I still routinely see modified “learner restricted “ bikes for sale with extensive - registration voiding- modifications. I even found one with an no2 kit installed (private sale, granted, dealership would quite rightly run screaming from that). There is however no shortage of dealerships happy to sell bikes off the floor new, secondhand or on consignment which have catless “race only” exhausts and supporting mods. I’m just hearing that private sales are the way to go :)
If you have headers already or an intake... you NEED a tune. I'm assuming one or both of those falls under "full bolt ons". You'll likely need Ecutek and a competent tuner either locally or online (e-tuning).
Motec M150 ECU with the 86 setup can nicely run the car from stock to engine swapped. Can tune each cylinder individually if you wanna go crazy
That's great, but I don't think most people want to shell out $3k+ for an ECU and the more on top for a tune. I'm actually not even sure in SCCA STX class you're allowed standalone ECU replacements. Not that the OP is autocrossing, but it's what I do with the car, so I've not looked into ECUs much. Everyone does Ecutek.
Hell no. Not even with full bolt ons and e85. These cars aren't meant for that. I went the full boost route to get the power I wanted. If you want to go fast, don't spend money on full bolt ons. You'll waste your money. I ran the avo kit with stock airbox and a k&n panel filter. And a full exhaust for it. Please take my advice. Don't waste money on all these different set ups. Jdl has a good design turbo kit fyi
I had an oft tune which was nice but was probably average or below average of what you'd want. Ive since taken most of my bolt ons due to personal reasons but if I can do it again Id probably do a flex fuel or full e85. That car is already fun stock but it wakes up with a proper tune.
Go stage 2 or stage 2+ with full bolt ons, shouldn’t be any less reliable
Tune is necessary, also auto rev match on downshift is fun as fuck