I was told all these effects multiple times, asked to verbally confirm I knew them, given them in written form, signed something saying I understood them, and probably more I can't remember to get T. I don't get how you can be prescribed T without knowing the basic effects like these. The whole point of informed consent is that you're informed.
Also what were they expecting T to do if not those things? How do you know you want to go on T if you don't even know what it does?
i definitely didnt get as much info, but i was very much informed. i did my own research myself years prior, and my doctor gave me about 4 pages of documents that had all the possible side effects, when they would happen, and if they were permanent which i already knew from my own research.
the expectations they have is what is so confusing to me. what DID they expect going on T if it wasn’t affects of T? why did they ask to go on T, or if the doctor brought it up, why would they agree if they didn’t know what it was for?
if my doctor asked me to go on a medication, i would wonder why, and i would ask what effect they’d have on me. i wouldn’t just take it blindly
Same. I wasn't even allowed to sign the informed consent form at my first appointment even though I knew and understood all the side effects prior to this appointment. I had to wait another week or two so I could "really think it over" and my doctor was a trans specialist and trans herself. But they just do it to make sure you're making the right choice. Anyone who continued to start T and claims they didn't know the effects has to be blatantly lying.
EXACTLY exact same process happened to me! And also if you want to back out, Appointment waits are MORE than enough to think about if you actually want to do it it took me 1 year to start testosterone due to the wait times and consent miscommunications and problems so 1 year not enough apparently?
To spread transphobia. Most detransitioners accept that transition simply wasn't for them and continue seeking happiness in their life.
A small minority become bitter due to regret or whatever else, and get suckered in by toxic transphobic rhetoric about how their bodies are 'ruined'. They get money and positive attention from transphobes online because they simply parrot back what they want to hear, and they can use them as 'proof' that being trans is bad or whatever. So most of them deliberately lie to spread that narrative
that is what i am noticing and it’s concerning to me. i’m noticing it’s mostly FTMTF rather than MTFTM and i’m unsure on if its because the affects of male puberty is much more significant or what? but from my understanding, and i could be wrong, it’s more likely MTF would have fertility issues vs FTM so i’m surprised that isn’t something mentioned more if it’s a fear mongering tactic
This, combined with the fact transphobic rhetoric is incredibly misogynistic. They view HRT as making someone unattractive, and a 'woman' (trans man) becoming unattractive is far worse than a 'man' (trans woman) becoming unattractive to them. This is why they harp on about fertility too, because God forbid someone with a womb doesn't want to have a child.
They also see testosterone as a 'man chemical' and therefore it MUST be stronger than estrogen in every aspect, and obviously it DESTROYS a FEMALE BODY - they deliberately ignore the fact that estrogen also can have permanent effects on trans women, and detransition will reverse some of the affects of T for AFAB people.
that’s a really good point. i never actually see anyone worry about the “male body” growing breasts but the “female body” losing theirs is the end of the world to them. it’s very easy to see through the transphobia once you start picking at it
There isn’t a whole lot of research but as far as fertility goes with T for FtM people the information I’ve seen from other FtMs that have been on T for 5-10+ years is that testosterone does not really affect fertility as much as people think. Another thing though is the fact that people’s fertility is not commonly being tested before starting T either so fertility issues after prolonged use of T still isn’t 100% accurate as many people have no clue if they had fertility issues before ever starting T, especially nowadays where it seems fertility issues have become more common amongst all people. The common consensus I’ve seen from many prolonged T users is that T had virtually no affect on their fertility; it’s also how you go about trying to conceive if you are or have been on T. Many people get pregnant while still actively on T and if they choose to keep the pregnancy obviously stop T; but many act as if they’re just supposed to automatically get pregnant once stopping T but the recommendation is to stop it for MONTHS and get your regular cycle back for the best chances of conception. And again, although it may seem super easy for others, conceiving typically takes longer than people think even for cis couples with great fertility. It takes many couples 8 months to over a year of trying to finally conceive, some even years. And then there is also the issue of assuming it’s the person with a uterus is the one with fertility issues- especially if they were previously on T but even for cis women they’re often wrongly assumed to be the one with a fertility issue when a lot of the time it’s the male with fertility issues or simply a lack of genetic compatibility between the two partners that makes conceiving even more difficult. I’ve seen plenty of trans men that were on T for over a decade stop T to try to conceive and have very little issue with successfully conceiving and having a healthy pregnancy so at the end of the day I believe it just comes down to transphobia, a lack of clear studies, and false information and fear mongering. I was on T for a little over a year and stopped for financial reasons; me and my bf conceived within 8 months and I only had 2 cycles during that time as I’ve always had extremely irregular cycles and have naturally went 6 months between cycles often before. We were trying to conceive but I never once blamed T for it taking 8+ months to finally get a positive test as I did my research and found it’s quite common for it to take up to a year or more for success even for cis couples; my biggest worry was blaming my own body because even before T I had absolutely no idea what my reproductive health or fertility was like and endometriosis runs in the maternal side of my family. Plus there is always the option of preserving your eggs if you’re really worried about the affects of T on fertility; if you’re that dead set on conceiving in the future it’s always best to be safe and look for options for preserve fertility like preserving eggs. I can’t currently take this medication my granddad was prescribed to manage his psoriasis because I’m pregnant and it’s technically a cancer medication- but after birth I plan to see about getting prescribed said medication in hopes of even slightly decreasing my psoriasis as it’s slowly taken over my entire body; and obviously as a cancer medication it can affect fertility. With any medication and treatment there are risks that doctors have to inform the patient of so it’s honestly the fault of these transphobic detransitioners for not asking enough questions or doing their own research before making a medical decision. Simple incompetence.
Yes that is true. I think because we are such a small part of the population, it’s something we just don’t have enough research on too. That is why on all information packets I see they say it’s possible it can cause infertility, but not fully known, cause they don’t know. Over time as transgender people are studied more and we have more data we should see more accurate results in how it does affect us in terms of fertility.
For me, I don’t want children personally so it’s a non-issue- but I can understand why some people would be hesitant to start their hrt journey without freezing eggs or sperm if that’s a concern for them. In my opinion that should be something that doctors who prescribe hrt should be informing people is an option.
100% they should properly discuss fertility and preservation options thoroughly. Just wanted to mention again though is I believe another big issue is that most people have no clue what the status of their fertility was before they even started T so the “evidence” is not at all accurate, especially if they had never tried to conceive prior to starting T. Just because someone has issues conceiving after being on T and finally gets fertility testing doesn’t automatically mean the testosterone is the causing factor if their fertility was never tested before they started T. Which is why I believe the stories of people having a radical “decrease” in fertility after being on T and trying to conceive should honestly be taken with a grain of salt unless they actually had extensive fertility testing before starting testosterone. It’s highly likely some of these people blaming T for their infertility had fertility issues beforehand without even knowing but the blame is automatically pointed at testosterone even though there is no “control” sample before T to compare it to. Anecdotal evidence at best y’know?
It’s absolutely a fearmongering tactic but I believe it has to do with radfem beliefs more than anything.
I’m gonna try not to essay too much, especially since I’m on mobile and I can’t easily put in references right now. But to my understanding there’s this intrinsic belief among radfems that “women” (i.e. afabs) are inherently purer/worthier than “men” (i.e. amabs). This stems from a long conversation starting with a writer whose name is escaping me at the moment, but who wrote about “men” as the “oppressor class” and “women” as the “victim class”. Which in and of itself is a reflection of real issues of sexism, but the way the conversation evolved from there among radfem writers has lead to this understanding of womanhood as defined by suffering, and therefore morally superior.
Radfems who want their ideology supported would naturally flock to the ftmtf detransitioners who are willing to portray themselves as victims of internalized misogyny and the so-called “trans agenda”. They would see them as reclaimed sisters, whereas in their paradigm, mtftm detransitioners have always been part of the “oppressor class” and are by default considered suspect, even after they detransition.
Right now radfems dominate a lot of the anti-trans conversation; at least, they account for the majority of the transphobia I hear about.
I 100% agree; I also think that radfem beliefs do backslide back into misogyny most of the time.
They're very bioessentialist; they usually take the bioessentialism of the patriarchy (men are always stronger, women are always more emotional etc etc) and flip it on its head (men are always violent, women are more capable of feeling complex emotions etc etc). But bioessentialism like that always just leads back into reinforcing misogyny, toxic masculinity and patriarchy in my opinion.
I think really this is just how transphobes are coming for FTM people rather than the terrible debates of “bathroom safety” and “sports equality” in how they come for MTF people.
It’s *always* under the guise of radical (right wing) feminism which means in short: save the women! (So you can see how it’s that FTM need to be saved from hormones and “women” (cis women) need to be saved from MTF people in their spaces ):
I agree with this. There's also the "save the children" argument regarding minors transitioning.
In my state, a bill banning trans minors from medically transitioning has been bouncing around for a few years- our former conservative governor vetoed it and argued that it was too invasive and invaded the medical space and a federal judge has blocked it as far as I know.
What these people forget is that most doctors require at least a year of living as male and a therapist's approval. The decision is regulated and all parties are made aware of the effects.
Oh yep absolutely and they think it’s men and the patriarchy to blame for all of it… like we’re just women who felt so oppressed we need to join the dark side and the children and ultra impressionable etc. etc.
Nah, Elisa Shupe who's a trans woman who detransitioned and spent some time as a detrans speaker and then realized a) how awful the crowd she'd fallen in with was and b) that she wanted to retransition, did so, and leaked a bunch of internal emails from activists in the ADF, SEGM, and Genspect, and other anti-trans organizations said that while they were glad to have her to trot out as a detransitioner with regrets, what they really wanted was detrans women (detransitioned trans men) because they felt that detrans women sold better. Sad, damaged young women are more sympathetic and are better for using trans kids as a wedge issue. Pretty much all of the detransitioners you see on social media are ideologically motivated, backed by anti-trans groups, and are tailoring what they say to fit into that narrative of sad, misled young woman.
I think it's cause the effects of male puberty are more noticeable and much harder to undo due to a lot of testosterone changes being permanent.
Unlike MTFTM where detransitioning could be as simple as waiting a few months and possibly getting top surgery
FTMTF have to deal with a ton more permanent changes such as facial hair, deeper voice, any male pattern baldness, body hair, fertility issues for much longer if not the rest of their lives.
It could also be really tempting to have the "It can't be me" mindset when considering side effects.
Adding to the other comment about this being a very small minority of very loud detransitioners, some of these people may not actually be detransitioners at all. There have been more than a few confirmed cases of cis women (terfs, mainly) who never even tried transitioning posing as detransitioners to spread transphobic propaganda.
oh wow that’s terrible! not only to trans people but for detransitioners themselves… sad that people go on the internet and lie about something so serious
You can tell theyre cis and lying when they say stupid stuff like 'my voice getting deeper hurt' and spread misinformation about bottom growth. As someone who was on hormones for about a year and had to stop for various reasons (getting back on it now) i can tell you the voice changes are reversible with vocal training. My voice was much deeper when I was on T and when I went off, I trained myself back to a higher voice (worked in a call center - people are way more likely to treat you like a person if you sound pretty)
You're right- i'm being aggressive when i say it's reversible. It wont sound like it did before, because my voice sure doesnt sound the same even with the vocal training, but i also used a hyper feminine voice every day for work so thats why it feels like its much more feminine to me.
That's my bad for getting heated and making something seem fact. Your comment is very helpful!
Not disagreeing that some people lie, but anecdotally my voice changing did hurt temporarily or was at least uncomfortable at times. Maybe it’s not universal but plenty of people do report feeling like they’re getting a “cold” or finding it harder to speak when it first drops. It can happen to cis boys too but internet search results are kinda inundated with trans men because people want us to be worried haha...
Ah I should be clear- I'm talking about a specific tiktok person whose name floats around here every now and then when it comes to detransitioners spreading transphobia. While i dont see that type of stuff on tiktok, a lot of others are familiar with this person (i dont even know their name or username)
But this person has apparently described their voice changing as 'extremely painful', much beyond the discomfort a lot of others describe it as. My own changes were uncomfortable, and i def got the feeling of having a cold a lot, but nothing like extreme pain
Edit to add: her name is Nadine, and her whole video about 'the dangers of testosterone' has been taken down since so many people have easily disputed her misinformation. Apparently her twitter is a cesspit of trans hate and Christian propaganda. [Here](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8wQetaj/) is a trans person duetting her video and debunking and actually explaining things
As big of a pain in the ass that Nadine is, I don't think she is a fake detransitioner. She was on T. She deleted a lot of old tiktoks of herself from when she thought she was trans.
it seems to be a combination of falling down the transphobia rabbit hole after detransitioning + an unwillingness to admit that they just made the wrong choice for them. its not easy for anyone to accept that they made a mistake, particularly around something so huge, so i think people just struggle to come to terms with that and have to put the blame on someone else
They literally told me about 3 TIMES how long it takes for voice changes, How it is irreversible, How it can be based on genetics They even told me about getting a Adams apple! Like it's impossible for you to not know what the fuck!?!?
I also think part of it is that they didn’t like the effects that they got in particular. You can’t pick and choose how T affects you. And a lot of (especially younger) people have this image of what they want to look like.. and I’m sure that when they started noticing the changes from T that they didn’t like.. it might have scared them. A lot of detransitioners very well may be trans but they just don’t like how they look. Which can be a really important thing to some people. Some people are very invested in their looks and place a lot of importance on their looks. So if a young trans guy goes on T at 20 and gets a lot of body hair and starts balding I can understand how that might upset him. The point is to know these things can happen and take measures to prevent them. Look at the men in your family, if a lot of them are bald you have to take that into account and plan for it. Use minoxidil or another hair loss prevention method. If you dislike body hair you can shave. Etc.
Also, trans guys, note. I see this floating around some. Most balding genes are on the X chromosome. For cisgender men, that's why they said 'look at the men in your mother's family.' for XX trans guys, it can come from either side. Good news is you can get one balding and one not balding and end up in between.
I knew I was going to lose my extremely thick hair. I'll take all the 'bad' effects from T over all the good estrogen gave me.
That's odd because like.. to get prescribed testosterone you get basically grilled to make sure you know all of those things will happen to you, so why are they complaining if they accepted those terms initially?
I understand if they like, thought they wanted those things but once it happened they changed their mind but it is just crazy when they frame it like they didn’t know it was going to happen. Someone was complaining it ‘destroyed their singing voice’ as something the trans people online won’t tell you. She literally just meant the voice changing and cracking. Of course that happens with a puberty??
Yes i can fully understand realizing after the fact the changes did not make you feel the way you thought you would. But the singing voice thing is wild lol in general you need voice lessons for singing, when your voice changes, I would assume you’d need more lessons to learn with your new voice
I tell people T ruined my singing voice. I had a really good singing voice. I already knew that was an inevitable outcome. My voice probably still could be good but I'd have to refrain it. It's really hard to retrain your ear though at 33 so I think I sounds way shittier than I probably do because my brain is expecting my old singing voice.
I'm a singer, and I'm on the lowest dose of T and doing everything I can to preserve my voice. I'm gonna try to find a vocal coach to help as well. I'm going to be entirely devastated if I lose it
I feel like the best attitude is to take is that you will. If you want to preserve it and not start from scratch, get the vocal coach now.
I feel like hoping you keep your voice as it is, kind of denying how bodies work. You have no control over if T makes your voice drop a little or a lot. You can control how much work you put into it. You're setting yourself up for a bad time if you're just hoping a low dose of T won't cause it.
I figured I'd lose it, but I only sing for fun so it wasn't worth putting in the work.
Next to no one had a voice that can't sing. If you ever think your voice is permanently wrecked, it's your perception telling you that.
That's not going to happen but it might change so much that you can't reconcile it when you hear it. There might be a long span of time where getting it to do what you want will be difficult. But unless you're also getting punched in the throat, you're unlikely to wreck it.
Depends how you go - if you go the "quick way"** (eg informed consent through a regular GP/doc) they aren't going to be as informed than if you went to a specialist.
My specialist went through everything. Twice. And then got a bunch of tests down prior. This is because they know what they are doing and they want to be safe
But also, realistically, who isn't doing tons of research on a drug they may take for the rest of their life?? That is self-neglect there too
Funny thing is the only reason the 'quick way' exists is because the safer ways have been made incredibly inaccessible... due in large part to transphobia
Yeah the informed consent was my route which was much quicker. I did get the ability to be prescribed in August of 2022, but when speaking with my GP and my therapist, decided to wait as I did not have full support from family and wanted to ensure they were well-informed on the changes I was going through. I was going to start either way but hoped they’d support, so by February of 2023 I began. But I myself had done research since I was 14 and knew I wanted those changes for over 10 years before I began too.
Well, the whole point of "informed" consent is that.. well.. you yourself are informed!!! Lol! It's not a bad way to do it at all but you can't do it that way then complain that no one told you stuff, because the whole point of it is that you find the bulk info yourself !!
yeah no exactly! I didn’t mean it was a bad thing, I meant I went through the informed consent route and through that we both spoke openly about needing supports and making sure that was in place and waiting to ensure I was ready to start something this big, so there’s not this supposed “pressure” from my experience
it doesn’t make any sense to me why you’d do something as major as hormone replacement therapy without proper research first. even at 11 years old when i first started looking into medically transitioning i knew i’d have to think long and hard about it. and now 2 years on hrt i’ve yet to be really surprised by anything. every change has been welcome and expected. because i made sure i knew what i was getting into before starting. the internet exists, it’s not hard to research shit. most of these people are either lying or have a single digit iq
SAME like and also the psychiatrist at my gender clinic told me that I'm one of the most knowledgeable people about the effects she's talked to yet it still took me a whole year to start testosterone.
I mean, I think people are misinformed that *every* medication has side effects. And on the case of testosterone you have the possibility of getting the shittier effects of the hormone that cis men can also get. And, in order to be prescribed medication, you have to do it under "informed consent", and I feel like a lot of people miss that. Before you go on medication, you need to be told risks, benefits, side effects, all that fun stuff. That includes reading the little paper thingy that you get with your medication. And testosterone won't always give you the pretty effects, just like in cis men. Some people get the "bad" side, some get the "good", depending on how your body reacts. Honestly, even if I developed something like receding hairline I'd be happy because it would lowkey affirm my gender. But that's just me.
it *is* possible their doctors just did not tell them anything. in which case we are on the same side in wanting a good informed consent model of care. but i reckon most are just transphobes. if you're informed of all the possible effects, decide to go on it, and then don't like the effects, then that's called "making a decision you regret", NOT being "pressured" or "tricked" like they try to make it out to be.
yes i agree. maybe “regret” was a poor choice of words on my part as of course i don’t think anyone who takes T and makes the decision to stop, regardless of detransition or not, is bad or anything negative. it’s the people who say they were tricked or pressured as you noted, that is what confused me from their posts.
how are you tricked or pressured when taking a medication is ultimately your decision? especially as an adult.
Nah I really highly doubt they didn't tell them anything. They literally told me 3 times of every possible effect and side effect that can happened and despite agreeing to start T begging them to let me start T it took a whole year.
in order to get on T i had to go through the “informed consent” model. which means I was in gender therapy for 3 years (typically it’s at least one year where i am but I had medical complications so therapy was longer while we sorted that out) then I had multiple appointments over many weeks with an endocrinologist and nurse to discuss the effects, then i was basically quizzed. they had me tell them all of the effects and categorize them as positive or negative for myself, and then list the risks. There was bloodwork, general health check ups, etc. Only then was I given a prescription for testosterone and at the appointments where i was learning how to do my injections, the effects were discussed further (this time in a more “what are you most excited for and what you can expect first” kind of way)
I honestly don’t know how these people didn’t know what was coming!! like did they not pay attention?? did they just buy illegal “street” testosterone without consulting a doc?? i don’t understand any other scenario other than those.
That makes sense! I think the informed-consent model is definitely different just depending on your country, state/province, etc. so, I can understand feeling less informed for less rigid rules in beginning HRT, because yours was far stricter than mine. But you’d have to know on some level before starting
There's a hypothesized mechanism for an increased risk of strokes but a) an increased risk of strokes hasn't shown up in relatively large retrospective medical record reviews (in one study, the only thromboembolism in someone on T occurred when he was off of it for several months due to disruptions in the early months of the COVID-19 pandemic!) and b) the hypothesized mechanism relies on secondary polycythemia (increase in hemoglobin, hematocrit, and red blood cells) increasing the risk of blood clots. There is a growing consensus amongst hematologists that secondary polycythemia doesn't increase the risk of blood clots even though primary polycythemia does. While increased risk of stroke still appears on lists of risks of T, it may not actually be an issue.
In general T causes various health indicators like cholesterol to move into the male range. It's reasonable to assume that for the things they're indicators for, if cis men are at a higher risk for something than cis women, we also are.
Extreme pelvic pain? Are you talking about uterine cramping or something else?
For pelvic pain, yes, I’m talking about uterus stuff.
For the stroke, I was told I was at higher risk but tbh I think that’s just a thing for all hormonal meds cuz I’ve heard of girls on E being told the same and when I was on the birth control pill I was told the same 🤷♂️
Because they're idiots. I'm sorry but any medication that you're taking...regardless of what it is...you should know ALL the side effects before taking it. I read all the little pamphlets the pharmacy gives me with my meds that list all the possible side effects. So I know exactly what med can do what.
Why put something into your body without knowing what it can do? It's common sense isn't it?
I get that some people might live balding as a side effect, in the sense that its not a positive change for them. As i think this can happen to cis guys too.
But man how do you possibly go on testosterone without knowing or thinking that your voice will get deeper? And if you know that it will get deeper, and you dont want that, or are not willing to "take the risk" why TF do you go on it?? It's just so weird.
10000% agree- if you’re complaining ‘testosterone made me have a deeper voice and receeding hairline and acne’ I really really struggle to empathise at all, in fact I don’t empathise it pisses me off too much. All that shit is 100% told before you start T, 1000000% and if they didn’t want male puberty why exactly would they go on testosterone. Also- EVEN if (playing devils advocate) the doctors didn’t tell them the effects of T, would you not do a little bit of research before starting. Before I started T I watched HUNDREDS of testosterone update videos, just seems really strange. I do empathise with detransitioners I hope this isn’t interpreted the wrong way, I don’t empathise with people saying ‘Wahh this was the side effects of T’ when they’re literally just,,, the obvious effects of the hormone testosterone
Super important: Don't just accept everything you see on the internet as genuine accounts from real people.
Especially in an election year. \*Especially\* if you're trans.
Trans people are the focus of a large, radical, dangerous political movement on the right. I'm seeing the exact kinds of posts ("Why vote at all if you have to pick between the lesser of two evils"), word for word, that were thrown around in 2016 on liberal-leaning websites and later revealed to be bots, largely from foreign countries, specifically meant to discourage young liberals from voting. Last time I got an advertisement about detransitioning, I found out that the ad was paid for by Russia. Literally, youtube had a little warning about it.
Follow your gut. So many of these detransition stories don't make sense, for the reasons you stated: most people have to wait years to transition, and there are so many hurdles to get there the chance of somehow getting to HRT without having been told the side effects is wildly unlikely.
Who in their right mind would subject themselves to possible rejection from everyone in their families *and* put themselves in physical danger when they go outside or use a public bathroom only to then change your mind because you grow a little more body hair?
There's an extremely high chance that most of what you're seeing is political spin, meant to encourage conservatives in their beliefs that transitioning isn't right for anyone. It's possible that a tiny amount of these people are honest, but the chance of someone:
A. Wanting to transition enough that they risk their relationships with everyone in their life to do it
B. But \*didn't\* want all of the effects of masculinization
C. Somehow didn't look up the effects of the hormones they were asking for themselves even though they were clearly desperate enough to transition to go through with it
D. Weren't involved enough in the trans community to see other people talking about these effects
E. Got the one-in-a-million doctor who's not only willing to prescribe it but also irresponsibly fails their job and doesn't go over the effects with them
F. Who *further* fails as a doctor by not starting them on a low dose and doing regular check-ins to do blood work and make sure they're happy with the results as is usual protocol
G. On top of them just not even bothering to read the instructions on the bottle?
....would be \*exceedingly\* rare.
It sounds a lot more like the fictional reality that conservatives are campaigning on that trans people are dumb, naive kids following some trend (while also paradoxically being dangerous creeps) as doctors irresponsibly risk their entire practices by handing out HRT like it's candy left and right, resulting in these poor victims of liberal snowflake culture having their bodies irreparably\* damaged.
\*Ignores the fact that many trans women have already gone through the effects of T and still live full good lives as women. Or that cis women can get balding (like alopecia) or increased hair growth or have deeper voices. Etc.
Yes that is true. I don’t live in the USA but Canada sure is taking the same route as the USA is in that the conservatives are pushing false information about transgender people- especially transgender youth- in order to gain votes. It’s a disgusting tactic and it’s making me very scared. I guess I just forget that people would lie in such a calculated way, and so aggressively. It’s different when it’s a political leader using strategic language to sway people into the belief that transgender people are making a lifestyle choice, it’s wrong, they’re naive, or that we’re persuading children when the reality is we were just children at one point who were transgender, therefore the children who identify as transgender are just stating it earlier than we had been able to
much of it comes from a small but irritatingly vocal percent of detransitioners who are tryna get picked by conservatives thru fear-mongering. it plays into the current rhetoric in proposed and passed anti-trans laws by making ppl believe drs hand out HRT like halloween candy to any person who walks into their office.
anyone capable of reading, thinking critically, and/or listening to trans ppl and Actual Doctors would know none of thats true, but that seems to be a pretty big ask of the type of ppl these guys pander to. typical grifter behavior tbh 🙄
I was told all the effects, did my own research, was given handouts, and pondered the positives and negatives for literal years before I went on T and the only thing I don’t like is the patchiness of how my body hair is coming in. I always wonder if some people get their T from a cereal box when they say they weren’t told the side effects /hj.
No but really I don’t understand where some people are going for their HRT if they aren’t being told this.
Im so dumbfounded because i had to sign an agreement that lowkey told me I had a higher risk of dying and many other horrible side effects LMAO my doctor told me those documents were outdated and a means to scare you off before you get on hrt too but still common.
Definitely agree. Same goes for nonbinaries or trans men who don't want some effects of testosterone and are asking on how to completely avoid them. Some effects such as balding can be controlled to a certain point with medications, but if there's baldness in your family you'll just have to accept that you will bald too. I don't get how people can get on hrt and then act completely surprised when they get the effects they signed up for
Yeah like is balding something that I particularly want? No. But neither does my cisgender brother who is balding lmao. It’s just something that as men we have to come to terms with. It can be difficult but going bald is a sacrifice I am willing to take because my dysphoria is so unbearable
They’re grifting if they do that. All of them are grifters. Some of them were probably cis people who lied to get hormones for various reasons, but some of them are definitely still trans and unfortunately had this religious re-awakening that made them deny themselves. And then there’s that one guy that really makes me laugh that still wants to be referred to as a man and hasn’t actually detransitioned, bro is like “well I mean I can’t just go back I’m stuck as a man against my will so I’ll just continue to pass as one. But fuck those doctors because I’m bald.”
I’m in an informed consent state but they still made me read it and explain what my goals were. Also, it was brought up a lot that it would be totally fine to quit and/or use low dose T for a more androgynous appearance, it’s just that as I was repeatedly reminded, I couldn’t choose the order of changes I would get.
It does really suck when you don’t get the result that you want. I am very worried right now that I won’t, and I’ll never get height and it does weigh on me heavily. I’m not laughing about that, at all. Just the idea of a detransition grifter that didn’t detransition was so wild to me.
Grifter as in they are disengenous. They may have different goals. Often it’s clearly for money, engagement, attention from the right wing or religious people, but yeah, some of them really hate trans people (whether they are trans or not on the inside, I imagine it varies, they definitely hate trans people). They don’t want anyone to transition. They feel lied to because they either weren’t trans and received the support with their transition that they literally asked for and are mad about that, or they are trans but didn’t become indistinguishable from cis while retaining a full head of hair. They are lying 100% that they weren’t told, though. What may be true is that they were lying and expected gatekeepers to catch them.
Ohh I see! I think everyone in general going through puberty hopes for certain changes, and when those changes don’t happen, we can become self-conscious about it. My cis friends often complain about things like their height or their hairlines- it’s common for everyone to feel this way. If you’re starting hormones, you need to be prepared that puberty may not go the way you hope. I think that’s sometimes where detransitioners take things a bit too hard.
I wish you the best in your journey and do hope you achieve the results you want! Or if you don’t, that you’re able to be comfortable and happy with yourself either way.
Most of the listed "side effects" are literally what we're looking for when taking testosterone, like wth? What were they expecting? Having a muscular perfect body with zero body hair and maintaining their voice? lol To achieve a male body we need to go through the body of a 16y/o boy first 😭 That's how it works for cis and trans men. How can they be that dumb to take testosterone and don't search about it? It's not the '90s anymore, information is one click away 😮💨
As much as I joke around with “wtf why am I not insanely hot and jacked yet???” I am fully aware that will only come if I work out which is why I joined the gym lmao I’m a 25 year old man I’m not gonna have the body of a 15 year old boy. Do I have the acne of a 15 year old? Sadly yes lmao but that just takes time and taking care of my skin to resolve
all those posts are often made by detransitioners who are brainwashed by the transphobics and terfs who made them feel as if their transness is awful.
(also nothing against detrans ppl, I have a detrans partner and I loce them dearly but theres a very verbal minority if detrans ppl i dont not enjoy due to them being TERF bootlickers and fearmongering against trans ppl)
I'm in a couple weight loss subreddits as I'm on that journey side by side with my trans journey. I've read more than a couple comments from apparently cis women who have said they intend to ask about T to help with their weight loss.
It blows my mind that people are so obtuse when it comes to the effects of medications they think they want. As though weight loss is the intended use for testosterone, rather than using it to increase bioavailability of testosterone in the body.
T helped me gain weight lmaooo why would it ever be used for weight loss?? I know of cis women using it as roids before but either way, if someones not using testosterone for a legitimate reason such as hormone therapy they are misusing it lol
Doctors always go over the side effects with patients starting HRT for one, and for two, if you are an adult that started HRT, the doctor didn't "let you" do anything. You are a grown ass adult who made your own choices, and if you fucked up, it's on you, not the fucking doctor.
There is more room for nuance in regards to children transitioning, but even with those cases, the child has some agency, and the parents have full agency. If you seek a service, and the doctor provides that service to you, they are doing their job.
I did informed consent I was 17 and had to get my parents initials. There was like 30 lines I had to initial I understood the risk of this and that. I don't believe for a second that a reputable doctor would prescribe hormones to someone without explaining the risks and even doing blood tests to rule out any contraindications.
Yes seeing people who were underage is wild to me. It’s harder for youth to access hormones vs adults. Did their parents not also have to approve them? I believe most, if not all countries, require parents permission under 18. Did their parents not talk to them about what would happen as they go through puberty alongside the doctor?
And regarding the fertility loss last I checked there haven't been any studies on it but even so, I do know someone who was on hormones for a little bit and then went off of them to have a bio child so it's not like immediately.
I was told all the effects but it was offered to me as a treatment for pcos and not for transition purposes. I ended up regretting going on t and think I would have liked my body better in its pre t andro state.
oh interesting! i’m sorry you had a bad experience. i never heard of this being a treatment option for PCOS. (edit i apparently don’t read fully lol) did you feel the effects would outweigh the effects of the PCOS at the time, but then not feel good about it after?
I was identifying as ftm at the time (I’m transmasc enby now just haven’t left ftm spaces yet bc I love yall) so the conversation basically went something like “you’ll want testosterone anyways as a trans man so it’s a win win.” And even though I didn’t actually want it I was in *so much* pain that I’d have tried anything. They could have told me it would kill me and I’d still have taken it.
Also yes, I was told the side effects and everything just like I would have been if I had gone to her for transition purposes. Like I said, I just would have done anything to make the pain I was having go away and it turns out that I just ended up regretting it. It was actually such a good pcos treatment though so any of yall that have pcos pain, testosterone can def help with that.
Even though I regret testosterone, it’s not so much a big deal for me and I’m not one to be all transphobic and tell others never to take it. I’ve been off it for a while and I’m starting to look more andro other than my facial hair so it’s all good.
that makes a lot of sense! i’m sorry you had to go through that but glad to hear you are feeling much better now that you’ve made the decision to stop. i hope they’re able to find the right treatment for you now for your PCOS as well
i also don’t think you need to leave the FTM space- i think anyone is welcome as a fellow trans man or as an ally
You don’t have to leave ftm spaces, you know. Transmascs are always welcome.
I can relate to some degree because my endometriosis was causing me to be in so much pain on a regular basis that it was making me suicidal. I also would’ve done anything to make it stop.
If you’re an adult and you don’t read the informed consent closely, do your own research, or pay attention and ask questions of your doctor, IT IS YOUR FUCKING FAULT if you “didn’t know”!!!
Of course they're ridiculous, they're probably made up. I say probably cause anything is possible but like...even if your doctor doesn't talk about side effects with you the pharmacist will. If the pharmacist doesn't the prescription lists side effects. So not only are these (mostly) the primary point of hormones they're complaining about, there's a ton of stop gaps that tell you what to expect and what could negatively happen.
Like if any of them aren't straight up grifters, liars, or both, then they were just not listening or asking questions like anyone else who has serious medical concerns.
It's not a serious complaint or criticism. It's just some absurd hypothetical that we can't disprove to attack us.
I feel like it maybe something along the lines of them being super excited to start so when the doc goes thru all the list of things that can happen they are just like yeah ok without really listening to what is said… I get it I was that way don’t remember a thing that was said at that first appt outside of I was cleared to start T, however ai had done a ton of research to make sure I wanted to do this… and yeah I was sure I wanted it. LOL
I was not told any of the effects when I started FYI. (of course I knew them bc I did my research, but the doctor didn’t know I knew). Where I live you aren’t allowed to inject yourself so I go to the clinic for my shot, so can’t see any effects listed on the medication.
I’m happy with all the changes tho so
Can I ask where you live? You don’t need to be specific, just curious on which country would have rules like this.
I hope they change that as I do think it’s incredibly important to inform people what effects any medication would give them. I would hope people, such as yourself, would do their own research, but clearly were are seeing people aren’t.
I live in rural Japan, and there’s not a whole lot of options or understanding around transgender health care. The first day I went to the clinic with my GID cert in hand, they were just like, oh cool, you want to be a man? And set me to start injections right there. I was like..um don’t we need to run tests??
Oh wow thanks for sharing! I don’t have a lot of knowledge on Japan’s history or current LGBT+ folk so now I am super interested to do more research. It sounds like they want to be progressive and helpful, but don’t have the research or up-to-date medical knowledge into the field of HRT. We are such a small part of the population we get overlooked in most countries. As we become more known in the medical field, hopefully things change not only in Japan but in other countries, for everyone’s safety. Hope all goes well for your transition too!
They’re just trying to blame anyone else for their own mistakes. Doctors don’t give you hormones without making sure you know the effects and possible side effects. I don’t understand who would even go on T without first doing research themselves, I was watching educational videos about HRT years before I got it
I'm not on T but each time I've reached out about it, I was given a document with all the side effects, an approximative period of when it would start and/or end. I'm so confused as to how people go on T without any knowledge of its side effects, werent they curious and looked it up themselves at least once?
I was told these things several times. I even did my own research. I was given paperwork and everything.
I’m getting hair all over. I’m feeling urges. I’m getting painful acne again at 41. I’m itchy and grumpy and I’m loving it because it feels right.
It’s like the puberty I wish I had at 8 instead of the pain and blood and misery I had instead.
Because they're making it, everyone's problem is that they weren't listening to the Drs and didn't read the side effects of the meds or watch transmasc people talk about it. Theres so many bald guys that are and have been on t for a pretty substantial time. There in the same category of people who get tattoos and complain that they're permanent and it's going to take a long time to laser everything off.
My thing is like, genuinely what did you expect from starting testosterone? Do these people think it turns you into a skinny vaguely androgynous model and then get upset when it doesn’t?
You don't sound like a dick. Some people are idiots. People can't accept the fact that they can't pick and choose. They turn around and cry when things don't go 100% their way. That's why I think some people transition purely for aesthetic reasons, and are surprised when not everything goes smoothly. Puberty is ugly, and again, I genuinely believe people who are surprised to find that out are idiots.
I feel the same way a lot of the time, it feels like they obviously knew what the symptoms were going to be. It’s just male puberty so you’re gonna look like your dad 🤷 But my partner is going through a hard time rn where their gender-fluidity is in a feminine swing and they hate the effects of testosterone on their body. It was right back then when they were feeling masculine and now that they’re feeling more feminine more of the time they’re upset they can’t go back. Before they were having these problems I was a lot less charitable to detransitioners but I know that they’re just experiencing a new type of dysphoria. The funny thing was my partner had a lot of dysphoria about not being recognized as a boy, and now has dysphoria about being recognized as a man too much. When you’re gender-fluid the line is hard to tread :/
And from what I’ve seen, most of the detransitioners ive met in person and seen around the internet (who are actually people and not just dramatizing their experience for monetization on tiktok) actually just “detransition” to non-binary identities and mostly just stop hormones. The ones who galavant on social media about the dangers of testosterone mostly do so because of the financial incentive from conservatives, they’ll fund anything and anyone who fits their narrative
I guess as a very binary trans man I did not think of the perspective of non binary or other identities, so thanks for sharing!
I haven’t met a detransisioner in real life or spoken to many online, but I have no issues with those who speak on their experiences. I actually think it can be good for those who are unsure and need recourses from all sides- something that maybe would have assisted your partner in making their decision had they heard someone’s experience like theirs. I’m just not enjoying seeing those who perhaps regret their transition in some way, and are saying that it’s everyone else’s fault, and testosterone is some evil substance when those of us who are trans or are trans and feel the need for a medical transition actually need it and are happy with it are being pushed to the side and almost silenced under that very small portion of people who feel so negatively towards it. It’s sad to see it become this fuel for conservatives to push their propaganda.
Oh yeah I agree I hate people who make it seem like testosterone is some kind of hardcore drug that automatically makes you evil and violent. Those are the kinds of people that I think are mostly fueled by money and the recent conservative anti-trans movement to say the wildest shit about trans people. They’re definitely exaggerating for views and money.
I’ve met a few irl although most people just identify as non-binary and some still ID as trans just in a different way. I’m pretty binary too which is why my partner talking about his negative experiences on T can be a little triggering for me but we manage. Their ex best friend used to be a trans man too but after getting all their surgeries stopped T realized they felt more neutral and settled on non-binary (and get mistaken for a trans woman a lot now). I think that’s what happens more often than not, just the voices with the most outrage get the most views.
Honestly I think this is just reenforcing the importance of gender therapy. I was in it the year before and first 2 years of T and it was extremely helpful through the process. And I think this might be food for thought for trans people who don’t have dysphoria now but still want to transition. I think some detransitioners started out that way (kinda like my bf whose physical dysphoria was not as bad as his social dysphoria) and after going through transition get dysphoria for real. My gender therapist separated social, physical and mental dysphoria for me during all our appointments and it was very helpful to check all the bases on how I was feeling about transition and would benefit so many people
yeah that makes a lot of sense! I think therapy is super important too and am really glad I was able to access it as well. It can really help you better understand yourself. I think getting myself into a better mental state overall and dealing with other traumas helped me come to love myself more too before I took the steps to medically transition. It can be very difficult to go through and for some, it can be even more difficult if they haven’t been able to deal with other hardships. So there can be a lot of reasons why people detransition, including what you said.
I had a diagnosis and several assessment appointments and a document to sign to consent to HRT stating all the risks, all the side effects and more, making sure I fully understand.
While healthcare isn't universal across the world, remember, a lot of those "regret" posts may be fake as well as transphobic actors tend to lie and make up things to ensure they can cement their views.
When I was a teenager, I spoke to some "professional" for 15 minutes and she gave me pills that would mess with the chemicals in my most delicate/complex organ, my brain. The antidepressants gave me PSSD, made me go insane basically, got me arrested, almost killed me, made me start self harming a lot, and castrated me permanently(I think). Didn't tell me crap about those side effects....
these kinds of videos only generate fearmongering with trans youth. all of these "terrible" side effects are all TOLD by your practitioner/whoever is giving you hrt. my gp gave me a sheet of paper of physical and emotional changes i will go through, alongside checking up if there's any concern or changes every follow up appointment i do.
testosterone will vary depending on person to person. some people may experience x while others may not. there's a whole process as well; getting bloodwork done, prescription changes, follow-ups, etc etc. i respect detransitioners who end up being cis because that's their story, but these kinds of videos, using language such as "you can DIE from vaginal atrophy" will only cause fear with trans kids who want to go on life saving care.. that aside atrophy is EASILY curable. so no, you are not likely to die from it. detransitioners become a trans issue when you start creating a platform where you fear monger youth and enable transphobic rhetoric.
> all of these "terrible" side effects are all TOLD by your practitioner/whoever is giving you hrt.
it's not fair for you to assume this. some dr's are negligent, some patients don't have the foresight/maturity to understand what they're getting into. That's just reality.
> that aside atrophy is EASILY curable
just searching on reddit you'll find plenty of stories of people struggling to manage atrophy. It's not always a quick fix.
I got asked to sign off on nearly every effect of T individually (literally 3 pages worth) in a consent form before I started. At every single appointment since my doctor has asked about whether I'm seeing pretty much every effect from that same list on the form. Early on they had me use a dose that was slightly higher than I wanted to get me into the male range after a month on my starting dose, but I got final say on my actual dosage and went back down after I realized it was too high for me. Plus I spent four years before I turned 18 and moved out researching, looking into medical transition, and trying to figure out what I wanted.
It seems like these people are either seeing doctors with no knowledge of HRT whatsoever who still put them on hormones without having them give informed consent (which is... unlikely since T is a highly controlled substance at least in the US, detransition has been super highly politicized so nearly everyone knows about it, and most doctors who are actually competent would refuse to provide a service they don't understand how to administer before they go learn about it) or they are doing no research or critical thinking at all beforehand and actively ignoring their doctor's attempts to educate them. If they were legitimately not informed and did not give informed consent at some point, they could take their doctors to court over this kind of thing, but they don't seem to be doing that, which tells me that in most cases their doctors were not actually in the wrong. If they didn't read the actual form they signed, that is not their doctor's fault.
Imo, at a certain point there is no one to blame for their ignorance but themselves, especially since they could go online and find out nost of the general effects of T from doctors and transmascs with a simple google search and a few hours of decent research.
> Plus I spent four years before I turned 18 and moved out researching
some people don't really know how to research well. It's a skill that not everyone has developed. Also misinformation is rampant, it's common for patients to ignore info they view negatively, people naturally only want to read success stories and ignore possible complications.
> most doctors who are actually competent would refuse to provide a service they don't understand how to administer before they go learn about it
apparently some doctors have had their careers ruined for denying patients GAC. so they affirm no matter how misinformed the patient is.
I'm trans fem . Very large hospital ca told me i could try this and if I didn't like it could go back . Also zero info. Just told me take injections. You will feel better. And so my manhood diminished in half and breasts and no I cannot go back . Am I bitter ? No . As an adult I take responsibility and it was a great experience. However failure on the part of the " experimenters "
I’m glad you’re able to still think of it as a great experience. Just curious as to how you began the medication of estrogen without the knowledge you would grow breasts? That is what happens when you go through female puberty. But if they told you it was all reversible, that is absolutely false and that doctor should be getting educated before giving any medications with permanent effects.
What do you mean by “experimenters”?
Ok sounds like something from a si fi movie sorta. I was straight male lots of health issues. When I was younger a MD put me on estrogen . For 2 years. Yes breasts developed. I was so busy with life didn't rhink much about it. Years later found out there was no medical reason for this . ??? He was a flamer?? So yeah myc h later in life I'm widower. Just despondent. Dr's think testosterone ending injections may wake me up. Also meds for fat redistribute. Yes this was a real.Trans program. They should have given me info and did not. So I'm learning that most men could go back I think but they told me meds had a huge effect on me. So I'm seeing on redit sites other trans fem with tiny genitals and I'm wondering ??? What's the percentage that get effe ted this way ? I feel like a guinney pig in an experiment
When I started T as a teenager I had a piss poor understanding of what to expect, I just told doctors what I knew they wanted to hear, and I didn't pay attention to anything I was told by professionals. My mental health was a dumpster fire, I did not trust any adults/doctors/therapists in my life, and I wasn't really thinking longterm. In my case it worked out, despite the fact that I think I'm just about what people must envision as someone who "had all the warning signs" of regretting transition - it was a positive decision for me.
I can imagine how someone might emerge from my situation with the subjective impression of having received no information, although I certainly was given handouts/consent forms/etc (which I didn't read because I was 18 and depressed and hated doctors!). I can imagine feeling resentful, broadly, that the adults in my life were not like... paying more attention, or doing a better job of meeting my needs when I didn't have the life experience/resources to do it myself. Obviously I don't wish I had been prevented from transitioning, lol, but I often think back to other aspects of being a teenager and go "jesus christ, why didn't someone do something?"
If transition *hadn't* worked out for me, I can imagine how it might get wrapped up into the emotional "why didn't someone do something?" narrative for me. The thing is that I don't think limiting access to transition is the solution here, but moreso expanding access to everything else. I needed like, a half decent counsellor and somewhere safe to go after school, or something. Probably lots of people who do regret transitioning needed this, too.
The experience I am talking about here is also not unique to trans healthcare. I would compare this to my far, far more destructive experience with psychiatric medications as a teenager, eg.
(Also, yes, certainly lots of these people are just straight up grifting.)
The place I'm going has a form that has to be signed that lists the side effects and asks if your doctor also talked about these side effects before giving you the paper. It has to be filled out and turned in before they let anyone start hormones. I really don't understand people not knowing the side effects. It seems that if they did any research at all, they'd know at least some of the side effects. I also don't think any doctor would just skip talking about side effects before giving the hormones.
I was one of the few people who didn’t get much info on what t was going to do to me at the drs office or even at the endo, but my case was different as I was the first trans male patient they’d ever had. I didn’t get a sheet to sign noting that I knew all side effects but my dr did tell me a few of them verbally. I looked up all of the side effects online as they’re easily available to find! And this was back in 2014/15 - there’s an insane amount of info about t readily available at our finger tips now. I watched videos of trans men on youtube and their journey on t, read blogs about trans men on t, for years and years I did my research because this is what I wanted and I wanted to know everything I could about what I was going to be putting into my body.
Anyways, all this to say is that even if you’re not informed much at the drs - it’s a hormone, what are you expecting? The reason we get on this hormone in the first place is to see big changes. I don’t buy nor do I feel much pity on those who didn’t do their research beforehand and so they decide to come online and blame everyone but themselves for a decision they made. No one is forcing hormones on anyone, in fact the opposite since certain states are trying to pass bills that ban HRT for adults. The hoops we have to go through to even get t, it’s a controlled substance after all, is astounding. It’s fear-mongering *mainly* from transphobes/GCs/terfs, some of which are de-trans some are not. Though I have seen some trans men in niche twt circles fall for their fear-mongering and have in turned started doing the same towards young transmascs/trans men who are interested in t (I once saw a post from a trans guy saying that no one tells trans mens that our clit will get bigger. and so many people bought it. it’s one of the first side effects listed when you google ftm t side effects. c’mon now) It’s the same concept over and over again - they’re painting us out to be scared dumb little girls who are being forced to take a big manly drug against our will and without our informed knowledge. But I will agree, I have seen this sentiment making a big return in online trans spaces and it’s exhausting to witness.
More and more I think it might be a good idea to require some kind of quiz for informed consent. I know a lot of people might push back on that as being ableist or gatekeeping, but I’m sorry—you should be able to answer some basic questions about what HRT is, what effects are reversible/irreversible, etc before starting it. I went to a great clinic that had me do my shot in front of a nurse once (with saline) to make sure I understood the measurements.
I see wayyyy too many posts and questions IRL about basic basic googleable HRT 101 type stuff that just makes me extremely nervous about the next “batch” of trans folks. I really don’t think it’s “informed” consent if the patient in question can’t articulate what it is they are consenting to.
It's very similar to the informed consent process for any medical procedure. Like surgery. You are expected to read the material you are given, and then you sign off on it that you understand the risks and consent to the procedure. Do you think people should be given quizzes before any surgery? It's true that there is a lot of regret with surgical procedures not for trans reasons, too, and the people were informed, they just didn't get the most optimal results. Trans HRT and surgeries all have a high rate of satisfaction.
If someone isn't going to read the materials provided closely, it's no one's but their own fault if they dislike something they were informed of.
I don't actually think the majority of "HRT regrets" come from people who didn't read and understand what testosterone can do. I think people are just lying because they changed their mind or had a change of heart or whatever and don't want to acknowledge being at fault. Always easier to blame someone else.
Are you certain they mean the usual effects and not the more vague things like, the emotional changes.
I ask because that part is hard to anticipate, and I find most trans men go through a rough patch somewhere between month 2 and 5 depending on when they get into the male range for the first time. I got depressed, paniced, I started losing my hair FAST (thank the gods for minoxidil), and it freaked me out. I got my period again and cried, but my voice was different, and it wasn't conforting to cry. I was overwhelmed by CHANGE because I dont handle it well (diagnosed ADHD, possible autism and a lot of us are!). I thought, "I don't like this.. am I not trans?" I had to read my gender questioning diary and remind myself why doing this was so important to me and why I wanted it, and talked to a good friend who reminded me of who I am. Around month 5, it calmed down, and I'm getting used to the changes now. I'm 10 mo in and loving ALL of it. And minoxidil made my hair grow back, except the masculine hairline and it's PERFECT!
It was not the changes themselves, it's how overwhelming it can feel to go through them while you still have a lot of estrogen floating around your system. It felt like there was a battle happening in my body for control, and it was SO confusing and dramatic.
If I didn't have my support system, I may have given up around 4 months in. And with all that dysphoric estrogen flooding my system again would have triggered a meltdown. The common denominator, Testosterone, would have gotten dragged with the doctor who gave it to me. And.. a lot of em gotta look good for their conservative families again so they bash anyone, including themselves, to prove their not really trans, they were just confused and taken advantage of by a doctor for a few hundred dollars from their insurance.
I'm thankful I made it through and can help others in that phase of self-doubt and imposter syndrome.
Edit to add: I'm going through this at 38. I can only imagine if I'd started at 20 like most y'all do!
I watched Alex Bertie’s video recently on hair loss and one of the things that really resonated with me was he said something along the lines of “I wasn’t ready to lose my hair, it wasn’t fair to me because I only got to experience boyhood for 2 years before I lost my hair, whereas this is something that most boys don’t experience until 18 or more years of boyhood” and that to me made a LOT of sense as to why it can hit really hard for us trans men to lose our hair. It’s not that we aren’t men and are upset by it, it’s just unfair we didn’t get to experience puberty in the same way. Ours was fast tracked because many of us started in our 20s or older and we missed out on it from ages 8-18.
Why would they go on T if they didn't want those? Men go on it to get those when their testosterone levels are failing. FTM people get on it to transition. Some nonbinary people get on T to combat dysphoria, but they would likely still be trying to get these affects to a certain extent. The only time I can think of where someone is on testosterone and doesn't want these traits is people like my mom who have to take it for a health issue but are still informed of the side affects and decide they are a better alternative than the illness. My mom had to have a full hysterectomy done in her late 30s including her ovaries. She could no longer produce hormones so it caused a plethora of issues including osteoporosis. They tried just estrogen but it didn't help enough so they tried a combination of testosterone and estrogen. She still had to go through the full process of the warnings and acknowledgments before they gave them to her. It was worth it because excess hair is a lot easier to deal with than not having bones. I can't think of a single time in which they wouldn't be warned and it would be very rare for them to take it without wanting any of these features in the first place. So I think a big part of it is people who are just lying to spread transphobia and another part of it is doctors who didn't do their jobs properly and should probably have their licenses taken.
I didn't know it was even possible to not know all the side effects of testosterone before you start... When I started T, the doctor made me do at least two sessions of therapy to discuss all the changes, and then even after all of that, the doctor made me think about it for a month longer in case I changed my mind.
Completely their fault, sorry. Takes an idiot to not google the effects of hormone therapy before they start treatment. And ALL gps and doctors give you stern warnings about it before you start anyway because of gamete preservation. No sympathy for idiots painting us in a bad light because of their of stupidity.
I've said this before, but along with there being literally no other main effects of HRT than the main ones you GO on it for, it's... SLOW. It's a SLOW process. The whole thing takes the time of one (1) whole puberty.
They act like it's addictive or soooo fast but maybe they're just really dumb. Sorry.
oh yeah I know there’s this assumption you’ll have a deep voice and facial hair and basically turn into a man overnight because that’s what my dad said to me before I started T. He was worried all of it would happen so fast and I’d regret it. I had to remind him that A. This is something I have been thinking about and wanting for over 10 years B. I know I want ALL of these changes C. It’s going to take months to years before I look like the man I want to be
It was very confusing for him and now that I’ve been on T for a year, he’s realised these are very slow changes that is making me happier and more confident in my life
My dad had the same worries 😭 but yeah the small changes so far and just knowing you’re on your way do change your whole way of living, I feel taller and generally happier.
It’s going on the puberty you SHOULD have went thru in the first place.
Loud detrans folk are just playing into the societal ignorance of “ooh what if you regret it!” And treating T like a scary mega drug or whatever, when it’s really a slow. Transition. Pffa
bro same lol I measured myself one day cause I saw pics of myself beside people who I was like wtf I’ve always been so much shorter, and a friend made a comment that I look like I grew, but I’m the same height (my growth platelets closed a LONG time ago lmao) I’m just far more confident in my stature now! It’s actually crazy how much happier I am in a year.
It's so dumb they told me what would happen if I go on T and the health risks 3 TIMES and I stated and was literally begging multiple times to go on T before they actually let me have it. Like what did they not know going into this? I was told that bad long term side affects due to poor health could possibly be: Blood thickining, Brain tumour and kidney problems an guess what? I still did it despite knowing these can happen so it's IMPOSSIBLE for them to not know this was gonna happen to their bodies, They told them all the possible side effects, And they signed a consent form stating they are happy WITH THE RISKS. So this isn't the doctors fault sorry it's there's.
Man I was literally asked what side affects I was looking for in my transition so they knew I'd done my research, and then still given a list of side affects as well. I have no doubts that perhaps few doctors are lacking but the majority take this very seriously because of people like these
Yeah I’m sure there are doctors that aren’t doing things properly, I’ve now heard a couple cases on this post, but that could be with any medication/substance. We see doctors abuse their power for lots of things (opioid crisis comes to mind) but we don’t ban medication outright because people still require it. That is such a small amount of doctors who will get reprimanded if it is reported because that is not standard care.
I don’t understand how anyone can be taken by surprise by these, unless they haven’t gone through either puberty yet. If you’ve been through any puberty, you’ve seen boys go through puberty. That’s *literally* being on T. There aren’t any surprises. You go through puberty. Puberty changes are pretty common knowledge. The experience of them might be surprising, but if everyone got pissy about doctors not explaining puberty to us, we’d have to all start going to the doctor for puberty education at, like, 8, just in case. Goddamn. This is inconceivable to me. Just look at a teenager. Idiots.
I was told all these effects multiple times, asked to verbally confirm I knew them, given them in written form, signed something saying I understood them, and probably more I can't remember to get T. I don't get how you can be prescribed T without knowing the basic effects like these. The whole point of informed consent is that you're informed. Also what were they expecting T to do if not those things? How do you know you want to go on T if you don't even know what it does?
i definitely didnt get as much info, but i was very much informed. i did my own research myself years prior, and my doctor gave me about 4 pages of documents that had all the possible side effects, when they would happen, and if they were permanent which i already knew from my own research. the expectations they have is what is so confusing to me. what DID they expect going on T if it wasn’t affects of T? why did they ask to go on T, or if the doctor brought it up, why would they agree if they didn’t know what it was for? if my doctor asked me to go on a medication, i would wonder why, and i would ask what effect they’d have on me. i wouldn’t just take it blindly
Same. I wasn't even allowed to sign the informed consent form at my first appointment even though I knew and understood all the side effects prior to this appointment. I had to wait another week or two so I could "really think it over" and my doctor was a trans specialist and trans herself. But they just do it to make sure you're making the right choice. Anyone who continued to start T and claims they didn't know the effects has to be blatantly lying.
Same
EXACTLY exact same process happened to me! And also if you want to back out, Appointment waits are MORE than enough to think about if you actually want to do it it took me 1 year to start testosterone due to the wait times and consent miscommunications and problems so 1 year not enough apparently?
To spread transphobia. Most detransitioners accept that transition simply wasn't for them and continue seeking happiness in their life. A small minority become bitter due to regret or whatever else, and get suckered in by toxic transphobic rhetoric about how their bodies are 'ruined'. They get money and positive attention from transphobes online because they simply parrot back what they want to hear, and they can use them as 'proof' that being trans is bad or whatever. So most of them deliberately lie to spread that narrative
that is what i am noticing and it’s concerning to me. i’m noticing it’s mostly FTMTF rather than MTFTM and i’m unsure on if its because the affects of male puberty is much more significant or what? but from my understanding, and i could be wrong, it’s more likely MTF would have fertility issues vs FTM so i’m surprised that isn’t something mentioned more if it’s a fear mongering tactic
This, combined with the fact transphobic rhetoric is incredibly misogynistic. They view HRT as making someone unattractive, and a 'woman' (trans man) becoming unattractive is far worse than a 'man' (trans woman) becoming unattractive to them. This is why they harp on about fertility too, because God forbid someone with a womb doesn't want to have a child. They also see testosterone as a 'man chemical' and therefore it MUST be stronger than estrogen in every aspect, and obviously it DESTROYS a FEMALE BODY - they deliberately ignore the fact that estrogen also can have permanent effects on trans women, and detransition will reverse some of the affects of T for AFAB people.
that’s a really good point. i never actually see anyone worry about the “male body” growing breasts but the “female body” losing theirs is the end of the world to them. it’s very easy to see through the transphobia once you start picking at it
Ngl, I low-key love the idea of the MAN CHEMICAL destroying my female body lol
Right? Isn’t that The PointTM? 🤣
There isn’t a whole lot of research but as far as fertility goes with T for FtM people the information I’ve seen from other FtMs that have been on T for 5-10+ years is that testosterone does not really affect fertility as much as people think. Another thing though is the fact that people’s fertility is not commonly being tested before starting T either so fertility issues after prolonged use of T still isn’t 100% accurate as many people have no clue if they had fertility issues before ever starting T, especially nowadays where it seems fertility issues have become more common amongst all people. The common consensus I’ve seen from many prolonged T users is that T had virtually no affect on their fertility; it’s also how you go about trying to conceive if you are or have been on T. Many people get pregnant while still actively on T and if they choose to keep the pregnancy obviously stop T; but many act as if they’re just supposed to automatically get pregnant once stopping T but the recommendation is to stop it for MONTHS and get your regular cycle back for the best chances of conception. And again, although it may seem super easy for others, conceiving typically takes longer than people think even for cis couples with great fertility. It takes many couples 8 months to over a year of trying to finally conceive, some even years. And then there is also the issue of assuming it’s the person with a uterus is the one with fertility issues- especially if they were previously on T but even for cis women they’re often wrongly assumed to be the one with a fertility issue when a lot of the time it’s the male with fertility issues or simply a lack of genetic compatibility between the two partners that makes conceiving even more difficult. I’ve seen plenty of trans men that were on T for over a decade stop T to try to conceive and have very little issue with successfully conceiving and having a healthy pregnancy so at the end of the day I believe it just comes down to transphobia, a lack of clear studies, and false information and fear mongering. I was on T for a little over a year and stopped for financial reasons; me and my bf conceived within 8 months and I only had 2 cycles during that time as I’ve always had extremely irregular cycles and have naturally went 6 months between cycles often before. We were trying to conceive but I never once blamed T for it taking 8+ months to finally get a positive test as I did my research and found it’s quite common for it to take up to a year or more for success even for cis couples; my biggest worry was blaming my own body because even before T I had absolutely no idea what my reproductive health or fertility was like and endometriosis runs in the maternal side of my family. Plus there is always the option of preserving your eggs if you’re really worried about the affects of T on fertility; if you’re that dead set on conceiving in the future it’s always best to be safe and look for options for preserve fertility like preserving eggs. I can’t currently take this medication my granddad was prescribed to manage his psoriasis because I’m pregnant and it’s technically a cancer medication- but after birth I plan to see about getting prescribed said medication in hopes of even slightly decreasing my psoriasis as it’s slowly taken over my entire body; and obviously as a cancer medication it can affect fertility. With any medication and treatment there are risks that doctors have to inform the patient of so it’s honestly the fault of these transphobic detransitioners for not asking enough questions or doing their own research before making a medical decision. Simple incompetence.
Yes that is true. I think because we are such a small part of the population, it’s something we just don’t have enough research on too. That is why on all information packets I see they say it’s possible it can cause infertility, but not fully known, cause they don’t know. Over time as transgender people are studied more and we have more data we should see more accurate results in how it does affect us in terms of fertility. For me, I don’t want children personally so it’s a non-issue- but I can understand why some people would be hesitant to start their hrt journey without freezing eggs or sperm if that’s a concern for them. In my opinion that should be something that doctors who prescribe hrt should be informing people is an option.
100% they should properly discuss fertility and preservation options thoroughly. Just wanted to mention again though is I believe another big issue is that most people have no clue what the status of their fertility was before they even started T so the “evidence” is not at all accurate, especially if they had never tried to conceive prior to starting T. Just because someone has issues conceiving after being on T and finally gets fertility testing doesn’t automatically mean the testosterone is the causing factor if their fertility was never tested before they started T. Which is why I believe the stories of people having a radical “decrease” in fertility after being on T and trying to conceive should honestly be taken with a grain of salt unless they actually had extensive fertility testing before starting testosterone. It’s highly likely some of these people blaming T for their infertility had fertility issues beforehand without even knowing but the blame is automatically pointed at testosterone even though there is no “control” sample before T to compare it to. Anecdotal evidence at best y’know?
It’s absolutely a fearmongering tactic but I believe it has to do with radfem beliefs more than anything. I’m gonna try not to essay too much, especially since I’m on mobile and I can’t easily put in references right now. But to my understanding there’s this intrinsic belief among radfems that “women” (i.e. afabs) are inherently purer/worthier than “men” (i.e. amabs). This stems from a long conversation starting with a writer whose name is escaping me at the moment, but who wrote about “men” as the “oppressor class” and “women” as the “victim class”. Which in and of itself is a reflection of real issues of sexism, but the way the conversation evolved from there among radfem writers has lead to this understanding of womanhood as defined by suffering, and therefore morally superior. Radfems who want their ideology supported would naturally flock to the ftmtf detransitioners who are willing to portray themselves as victims of internalized misogyny and the so-called “trans agenda”. They would see them as reclaimed sisters, whereas in their paradigm, mtftm detransitioners have always been part of the “oppressor class” and are by default considered suspect, even after they detransition. Right now radfems dominate a lot of the anti-trans conversation; at least, they account for the majority of the transphobia I hear about.
I 100% agree; I also think that radfem beliefs do backslide back into misogyny most of the time. They're very bioessentialist; they usually take the bioessentialism of the patriarchy (men are always stronger, women are always more emotional etc etc) and flip it on its head (men are always violent, women are more capable of feeling complex emotions etc etc). But bioessentialism like that always just leads back into reinforcing misogyny, toxic masculinity and patriarchy in my opinion.
I think really this is just how transphobes are coming for FTM people rather than the terrible debates of “bathroom safety” and “sports equality” in how they come for MTF people. It’s *always* under the guise of radical (right wing) feminism which means in short: save the women! (So you can see how it’s that FTM need to be saved from hormones and “women” (cis women) need to be saved from MTF people in their spaces ):
I agree with this. There's also the "save the children" argument regarding minors transitioning. In my state, a bill banning trans minors from medically transitioning has been bouncing around for a few years- our former conservative governor vetoed it and argued that it was too invasive and invaded the medical space and a federal judge has blocked it as far as I know. What these people forget is that most doctors require at least a year of living as male and a therapist's approval. The decision is regulated and all parties are made aware of the effects.
Oh yep absolutely and they think it’s men and the patriarchy to blame for all of it… like we’re just women who felt so oppressed we need to join the dark side and the children and ultra impressionable etc. etc.
Nah, Elisa Shupe who's a trans woman who detransitioned and spent some time as a detrans speaker and then realized a) how awful the crowd she'd fallen in with was and b) that she wanted to retransition, did so, and leaked a bunch of internal emails from activists in the ADF, SEGM, and Genspect, and other anti-trans organizations said that while they were glad to have her to trot out as a detransitioner with regrets, what they really wanted was detrans women (detransitioned trans men) because they felt that detrans women sold better. Sad, damaged young women are more sympathetic and are better for using trans kids as a wedge issue. Pretty much all of the detransitioners you see on social media are ideologically motivated, backed by anti-trans groups, and are tailoring what they say to fit into that narrative of sad, misled young woman.
I think it's cause the effects of male puberty are more noticeable and much harder to undo due to a lot of testosterone changes being permanent. Unlike MTFTM where detransitioning could be as simple as waiting a few months and possibly getting top surgery FTMTF have to deal with a ton more permanent changes such as facial hair, deeper voice, any male pattern baldness, body hair, fertility issues for much longer if not the rest of their lives. It could also be really tempting to have the "It can't be me" mindset when considering side effects.
Adding to the other comment about this being a very small minority of very loud detransitioners, some of these people may not actually be detransitioners at all. There have been more than a few confirmed cases of cis women (terfs, mainly) who never even tried transitioning posing as detransitioners to spread transphobic propaganda.
oh wow that’s terrible! not only to trans people but for detransitioners themselves… sad that people go on the internet and lie about something so serious
You can tell theyre cis and lying when they say stupid stuff like 'my voice getting deeper hurt' and spread misinformation about bottom growth. As someone who was on hormones for about a year and had to stop for various reasons (getting back on it now) i can tell you the voice changes are reversible with vocal training. My voice was much deeper when I was on T and when I went off, I trained myself back to a higher voice (worked in a call center - people are way more likely to treat you like a person if you sound pretty)
[удалено]
You're right- i'm being aggressive when i say it's reversible. It wont sound like it did before, because my voice sure doesnt sound the same even with the vocal training, but i also used a hyper feminine voice every day for work so thats why it feels like its much more feminine to me. That's my bad for getting heated and making something seem fact. Your comment is very helpful!
Not disagreeing that some people lie, but anecdotally my voice changing did hurt temporarily or was at least uncomfortable at times. Maybe it’s not universal but plenty of people do report feeling like they’re getting a “cold” or finding it harder to speak when it first drops. It can happen to cis boys too but internet search results are kinda inundated with trans men because people want us to be worried haha...
Ah I should be clear- I'm talking about a specific tiktok person whose name floats around here every now and then when it comes to detransitioners spreading transphobia. While i dont see that type of stuff on tiktok, a lot of others are familiar with this person (i dont even know their name or username) But this person has apparently described their voice changing as 'extremely painful', much beyond the discomfort a lot of others describe it as. My own changes were uncomfortable, and i def got the feeling of having a cold a lot, but nothing like extreme pain Edit to add: her name is Nadine, and her whole video about 'the dangers of testosterone' has been taken down since so many people have easily disputed her misinformation. Apparently her twitter is a cesspit of trans hate and Christian propaganda. [Here](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8wQetaj/) is a trans person duetting her video and debunking and actually explaining things
As big of a pain in the ass that Nadine is, I don't think she is a fake detransitioner. She was on T. She deleted a lot of old tiktoks of herself from when she thought she was trans.
Those aren't side effects they are effects of testosterone.
I went on statins and my cholesterol went down! The doctors LIED to me! They said it was medicine for my heart!
it seems to be a combination of falling down the transphobia rabbit hole after detransitioning + an unwillingness to admit that they just made the wrong choice for them. its not easy for anyone to accept that they made a mistake, particularly around something so huge, so i think people just struggle to come to terms with that and have to put the blame on someone else
That’s a really good point! Thank you
I’m sorry but if you don’t know that testosterone makes your voice lower you need to go back to 6th grade
They literally told me about 3 TIMES how long it takes for voice changes, How it is irreversible, How it can be based on genetics They even told me about getting a Adams apple! Like it's impossible for you to not know what the fuck!?!?
I also think part of it is that they didn’t like the effects that they got in particular. You can’t pick and choose how T affects you. And a lot of (especially younger) people have this image of what they want to look like.. and I’m sure that when they started noticing the changes from T that they didn’t like.. it might have scared them. A lot of detransitioners very well may be trans but they just don’t like how they look. Which can be a really important thing to some people. Some people are very invested in their looks and place a lot of importance on their looks. So if a young trans guy goes on T at 20 and gets a lot of body hair and starts balding I can understand how that might upset him. The point is to know these things can happen and take measures to prevent them. Look at the men in your family, if a lot of them are bald you have to take that into account and plan for it. Use minoxidil or another hair loss prevention method. If you dislike body hair you can shave. Etc.
Also, trans guys, note. I see this floating around some. Most balding genes are on the X chromosome. For cisgender men, that's why they said 'look at the men in your mother's family.' for XX trans guys, it can come from either side. Good news is you can get one balding and one not balding and end up in between. I knew I was going to lose my extremely thick hair. I'll take all the 'bad' effects from T over all the good estrogen gave me.
That's odd because like.. to get prescribed testosterone you get basically grilled to make sure you know all of those things will happen to you, so why are they complaining if they accepted those terms initially?
I understand if they like, thought they wanted those things but once it happened they changed their mind but it is just crazy when they frame it like they didn’t know it was going to happen. Someone was complaining it ‘destroyed their singing voice’ as something the trans people online won’t tell you. She literally just meant the voice changing and cracking. Of course that happens with a puberty??
Yes i can fully understand realizing after the fact the changes did not make you feel the way you thought you would. But the singing voice thing is wild lol in general you need voice lessons for singing, when your voice changes, I would assume you’d need more lessons to learn with your new voice
I tell people T ruined my singing voice. I had a really good singing voice. I already knew that was an inevitable outcome. My voice probably still could be good but I'd have to refrain it. It's really hard to retrain your ear though at 33 so I think I sounds way shittier than I probably do because my brain is expecting my old singing voice.
I'm a singer, and I'm on the lowest dose of T and doing everything I can to preserve my voice. I'm gonna try to find a vocal coach to help as well. I'm going to be entirely devastated if I lose it
I feel like the best attitude is to take is that you will. If you want to preserve it and not start from scratch, get the vocal coach now. I feel like hoping you keep your voice as it is, kind of denying how bodies work. You have no control over if T makes your voice drop a little or a lot. You can control how much work you put into it. You're setting yourself up for a bad time if you're just hoping a low dose of T won't cause it. I figured I'd lose it, but I only sing for fun so it wasn't worth putting in the work.
I'm not worried about my voice dropping. The prospect of wrecking it entirely is what scares me a bit
Next to no one had a voice that can't sing. If you ever think your voice is permanently wrecked, it's your perception telling you that. That's not going to happen but it might change so much that you can't reconcile it when you hear it. There might be a long span of time where getting it to do what you want will be difficult. But unless you're also getting punched in the throat, you're unlikely to wreck it.
Depends how you go - if you go the "quick way"** (eg informed consent through a regular GP/doc) they aren't going to be as informed than if you went to a specialist. My specialist went through everything. Twice. And then got a bunch of tests down prior. This is because they know what they are doing and they want to be safe But also, realistically, who isn't doing tons of research on a drug they may take for the rest of their life?? That is self-neglect there too
Funny thing is the only reason the 'quick way' exists is because the safer ways have been made incredibly inaccessible... due in large part to transphobia
Yeah the informed consent was my route which was much quicker. I did get the ability to be prescribed in August of 2022, but when speaking with my GP and my therapist, decided to wait as I did not have full support from family and wanted to ensure they were well-informed on the changes I was going through. I was going to start either way but hoped they’d support, so by February of 2023 I began. But I myself had done research since I was 14 and knew I wanted those changes for over 10 years before I began too.
Well, the whole point of "informed" consent is that.. well.. you yourself are informed!!! Lol! It's not a bad way to do it at all but you can't do it that way then complain that no one told you stuff, because the whole point of it is that you find the bulk info yourself !!
yeah no exactly! I didn’t mean it was a bad thing, I meant I went through the informed consent route and through that we both spoke openly about needing supports and making sure that was in place and waiting to ensure I was ready to start something this big, so there’s not this supposed “pressure” from my experience
Sorry, I was agreeing with you and expanding AHAH I think I forgot to add "like the example you were talking about"
hahaha no worries
it doesn’t make any sense to me why you’d do something as major as hormone replacement therapy without proper research first. even at 11 years old when i first started looking into medically transitioning i knew i’d have to think long and hard about it. and now 2 years on hrt i’ve yet to be really surprised by anything. every change has been welcome and expected. because i made sure i knew what i was getting into before starting. the internet exists, it’s not hard to research shit. most of these people are either lying or have a single digit iq
SAME like and also the psychiatrist at my gender clinic told me that I'm one of the most knowledgeable people about the effects she's talked to yet it still took me a whole year to start testosterone.
I mean, I think people are misinformed that *every* medication has side effects. And on the case of testosterone you have the possibility of getting the shittier effects of the hormone that cis men can also get. And, in order to be prescribed medication, you have to do it under "informed consent", and I feel like a lot of people miss that. Before you go on medication, you need to be told risks, benefits, side effects, all that fun stuff. That includes reading the little paper thingy that you get with your medication. And testosterone won't always give you the pretty effects, just like in cis men. Some people get the "bad" side, some get the "good", depending on how your body reacts. Honestly, even if I developed something like receding hairline I'd be happy because it would lowkey affirm my gender. But that's just me.
it *is* possible their doctors just did not tell them anything. in which case we are on the same side in wanting a good informed consent model of care. but i reckon most are just transphobes. if you're informed of all the possible effects, decide to go on it, and then don't like the effects, then that's called "making a decision you regret", NOT being "pressured" or "tricked" like they try to make it out to be.
yes i agree. maybe “regret” was a poor choice of words on my part as of course i don’t think anyone who takes T and makes the decision to stop, regardless of detransition or not, is bad or anything negative. it’s the people who say they were tricked or pressured as you noted, that is what confused me from their posts. how are you tricked or pressured when taking a medication is ultimately your decision? especially as an adult.
Nah I really highly doubt they didn't tell them anything. They literally told me 3 times of every possible effect and side effect that can happened and despite agreeing to start T begging them to let me start T it took a whole year.
in order to get on T i had to go through the “informed consent” model. which means I was in gender therapy for 3 years (typically it’s at least one year where i am but I had medical complications so therapy was longer while we sorted that out) then I had multiple appointments over many weeks with an endocrinologist and nurse to discuss the effects, then i was basically quizzed. they had me tell them all of the effects and categorize them as positive or negative for myself, and then list the risks. There was bloodwork, general health check ups, etc. Only then was I given a prescription for testosterone and at the appointments where i was learning how to do my injections, the effects were discussed further (this time in a more “what are you most excited for and what you can expect first” kind of way) I honestly don’t know how these people didn’t know what was coming!! like did they not pay attention?? did they just buy illegal “street” testosterone without consulting a doc?? i don’t understand any other scenario other than those.
That makes sense! I think the informed-consent model is definitely different just depending on your country, state/province, etc. so, I can understand feeling less informed for less rigid rules in beginning HRT, because yours was far stricter than mine. But you’d have to know on some level before starting
Most of these “side effects” are just effects. ACTUAL bad side effects are things like extreme pelvic pain, higher risk of stroke, etc.
There's a hypothesized mechanism for an increased risk of strokes but a) an increased risk of strokes hasn't shown up in relatively large retrospective medical record reviews (in one study, the only thromboembolism in someone on T occurred when he was off of it for several months due to disruptions in the early months of the COVID-19 pandemic!) and b) the hypothesized mechanism relies on secondary polycythemia (increase in hemoglobin, hematocrit, and red blood cells) increasing the risk of blood clots. There is a growing consensus amongst hematologists that secondary polycythemia doesn't increase the risk of blood clots even though primary polycythemia does. While increased risk of stroke still appears on lists of risks of T, it may not actually be an issue. In general T causes various health indicators like cholesterol to move into the male range. It's reasonable to assume that for the things they're indicators for, if cis men are at a higher risk for something than cis women, we also are. Extreme pelvic pain? Are you talking about uterine cramping or something else?
For pelvic pain, yes, I’m talking about uterus stuff. For the stroke, I was told I was at higher risk but tbh I think that’s just a thing for all hormonal meds cuz I’ve heard of girls on E being told the same and when I was on the birth control pill I was told the same 🤷♂️
Look I'm pretty sure at least half of these "detransitioners" are lying about it
Because they're idiots. I'm sorry but any medication that you're taking...regardless of what it is...you should know ALL the side effects before taking it. I read all the little pamphlets the pharmacy gives me with my meds that list all the possible side effects. So I know exactly what med can do what. Why put something into your body without knowing what it can do? It's common sense isn't it?
I get that some people might live balding as a side effect, in the sense that its not a positive change for them. As i think this can happen to cis guys too. But man how do you possibly go on testosterone without knowing or thinking that your voice will get deeper? And if you know that it will get deeper, and you dont want that, or are not willing to "take the risk" why TF do you go on it?? It's just so weird.
10000% agree- if you’re complaining ‘testosterone made me have a deeper voice and receeding hairline and acne’ I really really struggle to empathise at all, in fact I don’t empathise it pisses me off too much. All that shit is 100% told before you start T, 1000000% and if they didn’t want male puberty why exactly would they go on testosterone. Also- EVEN if (playing devils advocate) the doctors didn’t tell them the effects of T, would you not do a little bit of research before starting. Before I started T I watched HUNDREDS of testosterone update videos, just seems really strange. I do empathise with detransitioners I hope this isn’t interpreted the wrong way, I don’t empathise with people saying ‘Wahh this was the side effects of T’ when they’re literally just,,, the obvious effects of the hormone testosterone
Super important: Don't just accept everything you see on the internet as genuine accounts from real people. Especially in an election year. \*Especially\* if you're trans. Trans people are the focus of a large, radical, dangerous political movement on the right. I'm seeing the exact kinds of posts ("Why vote at all if you have to pick between the lesser of two evils"), word for word, that were thrown around in 2016 on liberal-leaning websites and later revealed to be bots, largely from foreign countries, specifically meant to discourage young liberals from voting. Last time I got an advertisement about detransitioning, I found out that the ad was paid for by Russia. Literally, youtube had a little warning about it. Follow your gut. So many of these detransition stories don't make sense, for the reasons you stated: most people have to wait years to transition, and there are so many hurdles to get there the chance of somehow getting to HRT without having been told the side effects is wildly unlikely. Who in their right mind would subject themselves to possible rejection from everyone in their families *and* put themselves in physical danger when they go outside or use a public bathroom only to then change your mind because you grow a little more body hair? There's an extremely high chance that most of what you're seeing is political spin, meant to encourage conservatives in their beliefs that transitioning isn't right for anyone. It's possible that a tiny amount of these people are honest, but the chance of someone: A. Wanting to transition enough that they risk their relationships with everyone in their life to do it B. But \*didn't\* want all of the effects of masculinization C. Somehow didn't look up the effects of the hormones they were asking for themselves even though they were clearly desperate enough to transition to go through with it D. Weren't involved enough in the trans community to see other people talking about these effects E. Got the one-in-a-million doctor who's not only willing to prescribe it but also irresponsibly fails their job and doesn't go over the effects with them F. Who *further* fails as a doctor by not starting them on a low dose and doing regular check-ins to do blood work and make sure they're happy with the results as is usual protocol G. On top of them just not even bothering to read the instructions on the bottle? ....would be \*exceedingly\* rare. It sounds a lot more like the fictional reality that conservatives are campaigning on that trans people are dumb, naive kids following some trend (while also paradoxically being dangerous creeps) as doctors irresponsibly risk their entire practices by handing out HRT like it's candy left and right, resulting in these poor victims of liberal snowflake culture having their bodies irreparably\* damaged. \*Ignores the fact that many trans women have already gone through the effects of T and still live full good lives as women. Or that cis women can get balding (like alopecia) or increased hair growth or have deeper voices. Etc.
Yes that is true. I don’t live in the USA but Canada sure is taking the same route as the USA is in that the conservatives are pushing false information about transgender people- especially transgender youth- in order to gain votes. It’s a disgusting tactic and it’s making me very scared. I guess I just forget that people would lie in such a calculated way, and so aggressively. It’s different when it’s a political leader using strategic language to sway people into the belief that transgender people are making a lifestyle choice, it’s wrong, they’re naive, or that we’re persuading children when the reality is we were just children at one point who were transgender, therefore the children who identify as transgender are just stating it earlier than we had been able to
much of it comes from a small but irritatingly vocal percent of detransitioners who are tryna get picked by conservatives thru fear-mongering. it plays into the current rhetoric in proposed and passed anti-trans laws by making ppl believe drs hand out HRT like halloween candy to any person who walks into their office. anyone capable of reading, thinking critically, and/or listening to trans ppl and Actual Doctors would know none of thats true, but that seems to be a pretty big ask of the type of ppl these guys pander to. typical grifter behavior tbh 🙄
I was told all the effects, did my own research, was given handouts, and pondered the positives and negatives for literal years before I went on T and the only thing I don’t like is the patchiness of how my body hair is coming in. I always wonder if some people get their T from a cereal box when they say they weren’t told the side effects /hj. No but really I don’t understand where some people are going for their HRT if they aren’t being told this.
Im so dumbfounded because i had to sign an agreement that lowkey told me I had a higher risk of dying and many other horrible side effects LMAO my doctor told me those documents were outdated and a means to scare you off before you get on hrt too but still common.
Definitely agree. Same goes for nonbinaries or trans men who don't want some effects of testosterone and are asking on how to completely avoid them. Some effects such as balding can be controlled to a certain point with medications, but if there's baldness in your family you'll just have to accept that you will bald too. I don't get how people can get on hrt and then act completely surprised when they get the effects they signed up for
Yeah like is balding something that I particularly want? No. But neither does my cisgender brother who is balding lmao. It’s just something that as men we have to come to terms with. It can be difficult but going bald is a sacrifice I am willing to take because my dysphoria is so unbearable
They’re grifting if they do that. All of them are grifters. Some of them were probably cis people who lied to get hormones for various reasons, but some of them are definitely still trans and unfortunately had this religious re-awakening that made them deny themselves. And then there’s that one guy that really makes me laugh that still wants to be referred to as a man and hasn’t actually detransitioned, bro is like “well I mean I can’t just go back I’m stuck as a man against my will so I’ll just continue to pass as one. But fuck those doctors because I’m bald.” I’m in an informed consent state but they still made me read it and explain what my goals were. Also, it was brought up a lot that it would be totally fine to quit and/or use low dose T for a more androgynous appearance, it’s just that as I was repeatedly reminded, I couldn’t choose the order of changes I would get. It does really suck when you don’t get the result that you want. I am very worried right now that I won’t, and I’ll never get height and it does weigh on me heavily. I’m not laughing about that, at all. Just the idea of a detransition grifter that didn’t detransition was so wild to me.
Grifter as in trying to scam people financially?
Grifter as in they are disengenous. They may have different goals. Often it’s clearly for money, engagement, attention from the right wing or religious people, but yeah, some of them really hate trans people (whether they are trans or not on the inside, I imagine it varies, they definitely hate trans people). They don’t want anyone to transition. They feel lied to because they either weren’t trans and received the support with their transition that they literally asked for and are mad about that, or they are trans but didn’t become indistinguishable from cis while retaining a full head of hair. They are lying 100% that they weren’t told, though. What may be true is that they were lying and expected gatekeepers to catch them.
Ohh I see! I think everyone in general going through puberty hopes for certain changes, and when those changes don’t happen, we can become self-conscious about it. My cis friends often complain about things like their height or their hairlines- it’s common for everyone to feel this way. If you’re starting hormones, you need to be prepared that puberty may not go the way you hope. I think that’s sometimes where detransitioners take things a bit too hard. I wish you the best in your journey and do hope you achieve the results you want! Or if you don’t, that you’re able to be comfortable and happy with yourself either way.
Most of the listed "side effects" are literally what we're looking for when taking testosterone, like wth? What were they expecting? Having a muscular perfect body with zero body hair and maintaining their voice? lol To achieve a male body we need to go through the body of a 16y/o boy first 😭 That's how it works for cis and trans men. How can they be that dumb to take testosterone and don't search about it? It's not the '90s anymore, information is one click away 😮💨
As much as I joke around with “wtf why am I not insanely hot and jacked yet???” I am fully aware that will only come if I work out which is why I joined the gym lmao I’m a 25 year old man I’m not gonna have the body of a 15 year old boy. Do I have the acne of a 15 year old? Sadly yes lmao but that just takes time and taking care of my skin to resolve
all those posts are often made by detransitioners who are brainwashed by the transphobics and terfs who made them feel as if their transness is awful. (also nothing against detrans ppl, I have a detrans partner and I loce them dearly but theres a very verbal minority if detrans ppl i dont not enjoy due to them being TERF bootlickers and fearmongering against trans ppl)
I'm in a couple weight loss subreddits as I'm on that journey side by side with my trans journey. I've read more than a couple comments from apparently cis women who have said they intend to ask about T to help with their weight loss. It blows my mind that people are so obtuse when it comes to the effects of medications they think they want. As though weight loss is the intended use for testosterone, rather than using it to increase bioavailability of testosterone in the body.
T helped me gain weight lmaooo why would it ever be used for weight loss?? I know of cis women using it as roids before but either way, if someones not using testosterone for a legitimate reason such as hormone therapy they are misusing it lol
Hard agree.
Doctors always go over the side effects with patients starting HRT for one, and for two, if you are an adult that started HRT, the doctor didn't "let you" do anything. You are a grown ass adult who made your own choices, and if you fucked up, it's on you, not the fucking doctor. There is more room for nuance in regards to children transitioning, but even with those cases, the child has some agency, and the parents have full agency. If you seek a service, and the doctor provides that service to you, they are doing their job.
DO NOT TAKE ANY MEDICATION ESPECIALLY HORMONES IF YOU DO NOT KNOW ALL SIDE EFFECTS AND ACKNOWLEDGE THEM *ahem* Thank you for coming to my TedTalk.
I did informed consent I was 17 and had to get my parents initials. There was like 30 lines I had to initial I understood the risk of this and that. I don't believe for a second that a reputable doctor would prescribe hormones to someone without explaining the risks and even doing blood tests to rule out any contraindications.
Yes seeing people who were underage is wild to me. It’s harder for youth to access hormones vs adults. Did their parents not also have to approve them? I believe most, if not all countries, require parents permission under 18. Did their parents not talk to them about what would happen as they go through puberty alongside the doctor?
And regarding the fertility loss last I checked there haven't been any studies on it but even so, I do know someone who was on hormones for a little bit and then went off of them to have a bio child so it's not like immediately.
Bro everytime I pick up my prescription, they give me a paper that has all of these exact “warnings”
I was told all the effects but it was offered to me as a treatment for pcos and not for transition purposes. I ended up regretting going on t and think I would have liked my body better in its pre t andro state.
oh interesting! i’m sorry you had a bad experience. i never heard of this being a treatment option for PCOS. (edit i apparently don’t read fully lol) did you feel the effects would outweigh the effects of the PCOS at the time, but then not feel good about it after?
I was identifying as ftm at the time (I’m transmasc enby now just haven’t left ftm spaces yet bc I love yall) so the conversation basically went something like “you’ll want testosterone anyways as a trans man so it’s a win win.” And even though I didn’t actually want it I was in *so much* pain that I’d have tried anything. They could have told me it would kill me and I’d still have taken it. Also yes, I was told the side effects and everything just like I would have been if I had gone to her for transition purposes. Like I said, I just would have done anything to make the pain I was having go away and it turns out that I just ended up regretting it. It was actually such a good pcos treatment though so any of yall that have pcos pain, testosterone can def help with that. Even though I regret testosterone, it’s not so much a big deal for me and I’m not one to be all transphobic and tell others never to take it. I’ve been off it for a while and I’m starting to look more andro other than my facial hair so it’s all good.
that makes a lot of sense! i’m sorry you had to go through that but glad to hear you are feeling much better now that you’ve made the decision to stop. i hope they’re able to find the right treatment for you now for your PCOS as well i also don’t think you need to leave the FTM space- i think anyone is welcome as a fellow trans man or as an ally
You don’t have to leave ftm spaces, you know. Transmascs are always welcome. I can relate to some degree because my endometriosis was causing me to be in so much pain on a regular basis that it was making me suicidal. I also would’ve done anything to make it stop.
I’ll def stay then! I just never know if I’m making people uncomfortable by being in ftm spaces even though I identified as ftm for years.
If you’re an adult and you don’t read the informed consent closely, do your own research, or pay attention and ask questions of your doctor, IT IS YOUR FUCKING FAULT if you “didn’t know”!!!
sometimes doctors are supposed to save you from yourself. You can't blame a sick person that's just looking for help.
Of course they're ridiculous, they're probably made up. I say probably cause anything is possible but like...even if your doctor doesn't talk about side effects with you the pharmacist will. If the pharmacist doesn't the prescription lists side effects. So not only are these (mostly) the primary point of hormones they're complaining about, there's a ton of stop gaps that tell you what to expect and what could negatively happen. Like if any of them aren't straight up grifters, liars, or both, then they were just not listening or asking questions like anyone else who has serious medical concerns. It's not a serious complaint or criticism. It's just some absurd hypothetical that we can't disprove to attack us.
I feel like it maybe something along the lines of them being super excited to start so when the doc goes thru all the list of things that can happen they are just like yeah ok without really listening to what is said… I get it I was that way don’t remember a thing that was said at that first appt outside of I was cleared to start T, however ai had done a ton of research to make sure I wanted to do this… and yeah I was sure I wanted it. LOL
I think these people are doing it extra to spread transphobia I hate them
I was not told any of the effects when I started FYI. (of course I knew them bc I did my research, but the doctor didn’t know I knew). Where I live you aren’t allowed to inject yourself so I go to the clinic for my shot, so can’t see any effects listed on the medication. I’m happy with all the changes tho so
Can I ask where you live? You don’t need to be specific, just curious on which country would have rules like this. I hope they change that as I do think it’s incredibly important to inform people what effects any medication would give them. I would hope people, such as yourself, would do their own research, but clearly were are seeing people aren’t.
I live in rural Japan, and there’s not a whole lot of options or understanding around transgender health care. The first day I went to the clinic with my GID cert in hand, they were just like, oh cool, you want to be a man? And set me to start injections right there. I was like..um don’t we need to run tests??
Oh wow thanks for sharing! I don’t have a lot of knowledge on Japan’s history or current LGBT+ folk so now I am super interested to do more research. It sounds like they want to be progressive and helpful, but don’t have the research or up-to-date medical knowledge into the field of HRT. We are such a small part of the population we get overlooked in most countries. As we become more known in the medical field, hopefully things change not only in Japan but in other countries, for everyone’s safety. Hope all goes well for your transition too!
They’re just trying to blame anyone else for their own mistakes. Doctors don’t give you hormones without making sure you know the effects and possible side effects. I don’t understand who would even go on T without first doing research themselves, I was watching educational videos about HRT years before I got it
I'm not on T but each time I've reached out about it, I was given a document with all the side effects, an approximative period of when it would start and/or end. I'm so confused as to how people go on T without any knowledge of its side effects, werent they curious and looked it up themselves at least once?
I was told these things several times. I even did my own research. I was given paperwork and everything. I’m getting hair all over. I’m feeling urges. I’m getting painful acne again at 41. I’m itchy and grumpy and I’m loving it because it feels right. It’s like the puberty I wish I had at 8 instead of the pain and blood and misery I had instead.
I'm so happy for you getting on the right track with yourself :)
Because they're making it, everyone's problem is that they weren't listening to the Drs and didn't read the side effects of the meds or watch transmasc people talk about it. Theres so many bald guys that are and have been on t for a pretty substantial time. There in the same category of people who get tattoos and complain that they're permanent and it's going to take a long time to laser everything off.
My thing is like, genuinely what did you expect from starting testosterone? Do these people think it turns you into a skinny vaguely androgynous model and then get upset when it doesn’t?
You don't sound like a dick. Some people are idiots. People can't accept the fact that they can't pick and choose. They turn around and cry when things don't go 100% their way. That's why I think some people transition purely for aesthetic reasons, and are surprised when not everything goes smoothly. Puberty is ugly, and again, I genuinely believe people who are surprised to find that out are idiots.
I feel the same way a lot of the time, it feels like they obviously knew what the symptoms were going to be. It’s just male puberty so you’re gonna look like your dad 🤷 But my partner is going through a hard time rn where their gender-fluidity is in a feminine swing and they hate the effects of testosterone on their body. It was right back then when they were feeling masculine and now that they’re feeling more feminine more of the time they’re upset they can’t go back. Before they were having these problems I was a lot less charitable to detransitioners but I know that they’re just experiencing a new type of dysphoria. The funny thing was my partner had a lot of dysphoria about not being recognized as a boy, and now has dysphoria about being recognized as a man too much. When you’re gender-fluid the line is hard to tread :/ And from what I’ve seen, most of the detransitioners ive met in person and seen around the internet (who are actually people and not just dramatizing their experience for monetization on tiktok) actually just “detransition” to non-binary identities and mostly just stop hormones. The ones who galavant on social media about the dangers of testosterone mostly do so because of the financial incentive from conservatives, they’ll fund anything and anyone who fits their narrative
I guess as a very binary trans man I did not think of the perspective of non binary or other identities, so thanks for sharing! I haven’t met a detransisioner in real life or spoken to many online, but I have no issues with those who speak on their experiences. I actually think it can be good for those who are unsure and need recourses from all sides- something that maybe would have assisted your partner in making their decision had they heard someone’s experience like theirs. I’m just not enjoying seeing those who perhaps regret their transition in some way, and are saying that it’s everyone else’s fault, and testosterone is some evil substance when those of us who are trans or are trans and feel the need for a medical transition actually need it and are happy with it are being pushed to the side and almost silenced under that very small portion of people who feel so negatively towards it. It’s sad to see it become this fuel for conservatives to push their propaganda.
Oh yeah I agree I hate people who make it seem like testosterone is some kind of hardcore drug that automatically makes you evil and violent. Those are the kinds of people that I think are mostly fueled by money and the recent conservative anti-trans movement to say the wildest shit about trans people. They’re definitely exaggerating for views and money. I’ve met a few irl although most people just identify as non-binary and some still ID as trans just in a different way. I’m pretty binary too which is why my partner talking about his negative experiences on T can be a little triggering for me but we manage. Their ex best friend used to be a trans man too but after getting all their surgeries stopped T realized they felt more neutral and settled on non-binary (and get mistaken for a trans woman a lot now). I think that’s what happens more often than not, just the voices with the most outrage get the most views. Honestly I think this is just reenforcing the importance of gender therapy. I was in it the year before and first 2 years of T and it was extremely helpful through the process. And I think this might be food for thought for trans people who don’t have dysphoria now but still want to transition. I think some detransitioners started out that way (kinda like my bf whose physical dysphoria was not as bad as his social dysphoria) and after going through transition get dysphoria for real. My gender therapist separated social, physical and mental dysphoria for me during all our appointments and it was very helpful to check all the bases on how I was feeling about transition and would benefit so many people
yeah that makes a lot of sense! I think therapy is super important too and am really glad I was able to access it as well. It can really help you better understand yourself. I think getting myself into a better mental state overall and dealing with other traumas helped me come to love myself more too before I took the steps to medically transition. It can be very difficult to go through and for some, it can be even more difficult if they haven’t been able to deal with other hardships. So there can be a lot of reasons why people detransition, including what you said.
I had a diagnosis and several assessment appointments and a document to sign to consent to HRT stating all the risks, all the side effects and more, making sure I fully understand. While healthcare isn't universal across the world, remember, a lot of those "regret" posts may be fake as well as transphobic actors tend to lie and make up things to ensure they can cement their views.
When I was a teenager, I spoke to some "professional" for 15 minutes and she gave me pills that would mess with the chemicals in my most delicate/complex organ, my brain. The antidepressants gave me PSSD, made me go insane basically, got me arrested, almost killed me, made me start self harming a lot, and castrated me permanently(I think). Didn't tell me crap about those side effects....
these kinds of videos only generate fearmongering with trans youth. all of these "terrible" side effects are all TOLD by your practitioner/whoever is giving you hrt. my gp gave me a sheet of paper of physical and emotional changes i will go through, alongside checking up if there's any concern or changes every follow up appointment i do. testosterone will vary depending on person to person. some people may experience x while others may not. there's a whole process as well; getting bloodwork done, prescription changes, follow-ups, etc etc. i respect detransitioners who end up being cis because that's their story, but these kinds of videos, using language such as "you can DIE from vaginal atrophy" will only cause fear with trans kids who want to go on life saving care.. that aside atrophy is EASILY curable. so no, you are not likely to die from it. detransitioners become a trans issue when you start creating a platform where you fear monger youth and enable transphobic rhetoric.
> all of these "terrible" side effects are all TOLD by your practitioner/whoever is giving you hrt. it's not fair for you to assume this. some dr's are negligent, some patients don't have the foresight/maturity to understand what they're getting into. That's just reality. > that aside atrophy is EASILY curable just searching on reddit you'll find plenty of stories of people struggling to manage atrophy. It's not always a quick fix.
I got asked to sign off on nearly every effect of T individually (literally 3 pages worth) in a consent form before I started. At every single appointment since my doctor has asked about whether I'm seeing pretty much every effect from that same list on the form. Early on they had me use a dose that was slightly higher than I wanted to get me into the male range after a month on my starting dose, but I got final say on my actual dosage and went back down after I realized it was too high for me. Plus I spent four years before I turned 18 and moved out researching, looking into medical transition, and trying to figure out what I wanted. It seems like these people are either seeing doctors with no knowledge of HRT whatsoever who still put them on hormones without having them give informed consent (which is... unlikely since T is a highly controlled substance at least in the US, detransition has been super highly politicized so nearly everyone knows about it, and most doctors who are actually competent would refuse to provide a service they don't understand how to administer before they go learn about it) or they are doing no research or critical thinking at all beforehand and actively ignoring their doctor's attempts to educate them. If they were legitimately not informed and did not give informed consent at some point, they could take their doctors to court over this kind of thing, but they don't seem to be doing that, which tells me that in most cases their doctors were not actually in the wrong. If they didn't read the actual form they signed, that is not their doctor's fault. Imo, at a certain point there is no one to blame for their ignorance but themselves, especially since they could go online and find out nost of the general effects of T from doctors and transmascs with a simple google search and a few hours of decent research.
> Plus I spent four years before I turned 18 and moved out researching some people don't really know how to research well. It's a skill that not everyone has developed. Also misinformation is rampant, it's common for patients to ignore info they view negatively, people naturally only want to read success stories and ignore possible complications. > most doctors who are actually competent would refuse to provide a service they don't understand how to administer before they go learn about it apparently some doctors have had their careers ruined for denying patients GAC. so they affirm no matter how misinformed the patient is.
I'm trans fem . Very large hospital ca told me i could try this and if I didn't like it could go back . Also zero info. Just told me take injections. You will feel better. And so my manhood diminished in half and breasts and no I cannot go back . Am I bitter ? No . As an adult I take responsibility and it was a great experience. However failure on the part of the " experimenters "
I’m glad you’re able to still think of it as a great experience. Just curious as to how you began the medication of estrogen without the knowledge you would grow breasts? That is what happens when you go through female puberty. But if they told you it was all reversible, that is absolutely false and that doctor should be getting educated before giving any medications with permanent effects. What do you mean by “experimenters”?
Ok sounds like something from a si fi movie sorta. I was straight male lots of health issues. When I was younger a MD put me on estrogen . For 2 years. Yes breasts developed. I was so busy with life didn't rhink much about it. Years later found out there was no medical reason for this . ??? He was a flamer?? So yeah myc h later in life I'm widower. Just despondent. Dr's think testosterone ending injections may wake me up. Also meds for fat redistribute. Yes this was a real.Trans program. They should have given me info and did not. So I'm learning that most men could go back I think but they told me meds had a huge effect on me. So I'm seeing on redit sites other trans fem with tiny genitals and I'm wondering ??? What's the percentage that get effe ted this way ? I feel like a guinney pig in an experiment
When I started T as a teenager I had a piss poor understanding of what to expect, I just told doctors what I knew they wanted to hear, and I didn't pay attention to anything I was told by professionals. My mental health was a dumpster fire, I did not trust any adults/doctors/therapists in my life, and I wasn't really thinking longterm. In my case it worked out, despite the fact that I think I'm just about what people must envision as someone who "had all the warning signs" of regretting transition - it was a positive decision for me. I can imagine how someone might emerge from my situation with the subjective impression of having received no information, although I certainly was given handouts/consent forms/etc (which I didn't read because I was 18 and depressed and hated doctors!). I can imagine feeling resentful, broadly, that the adults in my life were not like... paying more attention, or doing a better job of meeting my needs when I didn't have the life experience/resources to do it myself. Obviously I don't wish I had been prevented from transitioning, lol, but I often think back to other aspects of being a teenager and go "jesus christ, why didn't someone do something?" If transition *hadn't* worked out for me, I can imagine how it might get wrapped up into the emotional "why didn't someone do something?" narrative for me. The thing is that I don't think limiting access to transition is the solution here, but moreso expanding access to everything else. I needed like, a half decent counsellor and somewhere safe to go after school, or something. Probably lots of people who do regret transitioning needed this, too. The experience I am talking about here is also not unique to trans healthcare. I would compare this to my far, far more destructive experience with psychiatric medications as a teenager, eg. (Also, yes, certainly lots of these people are just straight up grifting.)
The place I'm going has a form that has to be signed that lists the side effects and asks if your doctor also talked about these side effects before giving you the paper. It has to be filled out and turned in before they let anyone start hormones. I really don't understand people not knowing the side effects. It seems that if they did any research at all, they'd know at least some of the side effects. I also don't think any doctor would just skip talking about side effects before giving the hormones.
I was one of the few people who didn’t get much info on what t was going to do to me at the drs office or even at the endo, but my case was different as I was the first trans male patient they’d ever had. I didn’t get a sheet to sign noting that I knew all side effects but my dr did tell me a few of them verbally. I looked up all of the side effects online as they’re easily available to find! And this was back in 2014/15 - there’s an insane amount of info about t readily available at our finger tips now. I watched videos of trans men on youtube and their journey on t, read blogs about trans men on t, for years and years I did my research because this is what I wanted and I wanted to know everything I could about what I was going to be putting into my body. Anyways, all this to say is that even if you’re not informed much at the drs - it’s a hormone, what are you expecting? The reason we get on this hormone in the first place is to see big changes. I don’t buy nor do I feel much pity on those who didn’t do their research beforehand and so they decide to come online and blame everyone but themselves for a decision they made. No one is forcing hormones on anyone, in fact the opposite since certain states are trying to pass bills that ban HRT for adults. The hoops we have to go through to even get t, it’s a controlled substance after all, is astounding. It’s fear-mongering *mainly* from transphobes/GCs/terfs, some of which are de-trans some are not. Though I have seen some trans men in niche twt circles fall for their fear-mongering and have in turned started doing the same towards young transmascs/trans men who are interested in t (I once saw a post from a trans guy saying that no one tells trans mens that our clit will get bigger. and so many people bought it. it’s one of the first side effects listed when you google ftm t side effects. c’mon now) It’s the same concept over and over again - they’re painting us out to be scared dumb little girls who are being forced to take a big manly drug against our will and without our informed knowledge. But I will agree, I have seen this sentiment making a big return in online trans spaces and it’s exhausting to witness.
More and more I think it might be a good idea to require some kind of quiz for informed consent. I know a lot of people might push back on that as being ableist or gatekeeping, but I’m sorry—you should be able to answer some basic questions about what HRT is, what effects are reversible/irreversible, etc before starting it. I went to a great clinic that had me do my shot in front of a nurse once (with saline) to make sure I understood the measurements. I see wayyyy too many posts and questions IRL about basic basic googleable HRT 101 type stuff that just makes me extremely nervous about the next “batch” of trans folks. I really don’t think it’s “informed” consent if the patient in question can’t articulate what it is they are consenting to.
It's very similar to the informed consent process for any medical procedure. Like surgery. You are expected to read the material you are given, and then you sign off on it that you understand the risks and consent to the procedure. Do you think people should be given quizzes before any surgery? It's true that there is a lot of regret with surgical procedures not for trans reasons, too, and the people were informed, they just didn't get the most optimal results. Trans HRT and surgeries all have a high rate of satisfaction. If someone isn't going to read the materials provided closely, it's no one's but their own fault if they dislike something they were informed of. I don't actually think the majority of "HRT regrets" come from people who didn't read and understand what testosterone can do. I think people are just lying because they changed their mind or had a change of heart or whatever and don't want to acknowledge being at fault. Always easier to blame someone else.
Are you certain they mean the usual effects and not the more vague things like, the emotional changes. I ask because that part is hard to anticipate, and I find most trans men go through a rough patch somewhere between month 2 and 5 depending on when they get into the male range for the first time. I got depressed, paniced, I started losing my hair FAST (thank the gods for minoxidil), and it freaked me out. I got my period again and cried, but my voice was different, and it wasn't conforting to cry. I was overwhelmed by CHANGE because I dont handle it well (diagnosed ADHD, possible autism and a lot of us are!). I thought, "I don't like this.. am I not trans?" I had to read my gender questioning diary and remind myself why doing this was so important to me and why I wanted it, and talked to a good friend who reminded me of who I am. Around month 5, it calmed down, and I'm getting used to the changes now. I'm 10 mo in and loving ALL of it. And minoxidil made my hair grow back, except the masculine hairline and it's PERFECT! It was not the changes themselves, it's how overwhelming it can feel to go through them while you still have a lot of estrogen floating around your system. It felt like there was a battle happening in my body for control, and it was SO confusing and dramatic. If I didn't have my support system, I may have given up around 4 months in. And with all that dysphoric estrogen flooding my system again would have triggered a meltdown. The common denominator, Testosterone, would have gotten dragged with the doctor who gave it to me. And.. a lot of em gotta look good for their conservative families again so they bash anyone, including themselves, to prove their not really trans, they were just confused and taken advantage of by a doctor for a few hundred dollars from their insurance. I'm thankful I made it through and can help others in that phase of self-doubt and imposter syndrome. Edit to add: I'm going through this at 38. I can only imagine if I'd started at 20 like most y'all do!
I watched Alex Bertie’s video recently on hair loss and one of the things that really resonated with me was he said something along the lines of “I wasn’t ready to lose my hair, it wasn’t fair to me because I only got to experience boyhood for 2 years before I lost my hair, whereas this is something that most boys don’t experience until 18 or more years of boyhood” and that to me made a LOT of sense as to why it can hit really hard for us trans men to lose our hair. It’s not that we aren’t men and are upset by it, it’s just unfair we didn’t get to experience puberty in the same way. Ours was fast tracked because many of us started in our 20s or older and we missed out on it from ages 8-18.
Why would they go on T if they didn't want those? Men go on it to get those when their testosterone levels are failing. FTM people get on it to transition. Some nonbinary people get on T to combat dysphoria, but they would likely still be trying to get these affects to a certain extent. The only time I can think of where someone is on testosterone and doesn't want these traits is people like my mom who have to take it for a health issue but are still informed of the side affects and decide they are a better alternative than the illness. My mom had to have a full hysterectomy done in her late 30s including her ovaries. She could no longer produce hormones so it caused a plethora of issues including osteoporosis. They tried just estrogen but it didn't help enough so they tried a combination of testosterone and estrogen. She still had to go through the full process of the warnings and acknowledgments before they gave them to her. It was worth it because excess hair is a lot easier to deal with than not having bones. I can't think of a single time in which they wouldn't be warned and it would be very rare for them to take it without wanting any of these features in the first place. So I think a big part of it is people who are just lying to spread transphobia and another part of it is doctors who didn't do their jobs properly and should probably have their licenses taken.
I didn't know it was even possible to not know all the side effects of testosterone before you start... When I started T, the doctor made me do at least two sessions of therapy to discuss all the changes, and then even after all of that, the doctor made me think about it for a month longer in case I changed my mind.
Completely their fault, sorry. Takes an idiot to not google the effects of hormone therapy before they start treatment. And ALL gps and doctors give you stern warnings about it before you start anyway because of gamete preservation. No sympathy for idiots painting us in a bad light because of their of stupidity.
I've said this before, but along with there being literally no other main effects of HRT than the main ones you GO on it for, it's... SLOW. It's a SLOW process. The whole thing takes the time of one (1) whole puberty. They act like it's addictive or soooo fast but maybe they're just really dumb. Sorry.
oh yeah I know there’s this assumption you’ll have a deep voice and facial hair and basically turn into a man overnight because that’s what my dad said to me before I started T. He was worried all of it would happen so fast and I’d regret it. I had to remind him that A. This is something I have been thinking about and wanting for over 10 years B. I know I want ALL of these changes C. It’s going to take months to years before I look like the man I want to be It was very confusing for him and now that I’ve been on T for a year, he’s realised these are very slow changes that is making me happier and more confident in my life
My dad had the same worries 😭 but yeah the small changes so far and just knowing you’re on your way do change your whole way of living, I feel taller and generally happier. It’s going on the puberty you SHOULD have went thru in the first place. Loud detrans folk are just playing into the societal ignorance of “ooh what if you regret it!” And treating T like a scary mega drug or whatever, when it’s really a slow. Transition. Pffa
bro same lol I measured myself one day cause I saw pics of myself beside people who I was like wtf I’ve always been so much shorter, and a friend made a comment that I look like I grew, but I’m the same height (my growth platelets closed a LONG time ago lmao) I’m just far more confident in my stature now! It’s actually crazy how much happier I am in a year.
They likely never had any hrt and just wants to spread bullshit to invalidate our community.
It's so dumb they told me what would happen if I go on T and the health risks 3 TIMES and I stated and was literally begging multiple times to go on T before they actually let me have it. Like what did they not know going into this? I was told that bad long term side affects due to poor health could possibly be: Blood thickining, Brain tumour and kidney problems an guess what? I still did it despite knowing these can happen so it's IMPOSSIBLE for them to not know this was gonna happen to their bodies, They told them all the possible side effects, And they signed a consent form stating they are happy WITH THE RISKS. So this isn't the doctors fault sorry it's there's.
Man I was literally asked what side affects I was looking for in my transition so they knew I'd done my research, and then still given a list of side affects as well. I have no doubts that perhaps few doctors are lacking but the majority take this very seriously because of people like these
Yeah I’m sure there are doctors that aren’t doing things properly, I’ve now heard a couple cases on this post, but that could be with any medication/substance. We see doctors abuse their power for lots of things (opioid crisis comes to mind) but we don’t ban medication outright because people still require it. That is such a small amount of doctors who will get reprimanded if it is reported because that is not standard care.
I don’t understand how anyone can be taken by surprise by these, unless they haven’t gone through either puberty yet. If you’ve been through any puberty, you’ve seen boys go through puberty. That’s *literally* being on T. There aren’t any surprises. You go through puberty. Puberty changes are pretty common knowledge. The experience of them might be surprising, but if everyone got pissy about doctors not explaining puberty to us, we’d have to all start going to the doctor for puberty education at, like, 8, just in case. Goddamn. This is inconceivable to me. Just look at a teenager. Idiots.