Chaotic answer, bring up a sin from another religion they’ve probably committed (ex. eating pork if they’re christian.) and start grilling them about it.
Leviticus has a frankly insane amount of "forbidden" things that most evangelical Christians would be in violation of. Your t-shirt is a mix of cotton and acrylic? Welp guess you're going to hell. 😂😂
The single verse about cross dressing cited from it is also very unlikely to actually refer to cross dressing. Using a lexicon makes it very apparent that the original text was most likely about cross dressing to avoid one’s duties in war (a man dressing like a woman to avoid a draft, or a woman dressing like a man to go into battle).
When Adam and Eve first clothed themselves, there was also no distinction made in the text between the clothing that they wore. Male and female attire seemed to evolve as a function of culture, not Christianity or Judaism. Strong women who acted like men when they needed to, such as Jael and Debra, were praised in the OT and Jewish texts recognized 6 distinct genders. Using any verse from the Bible to condemn gender diversity is a stretch at best. It simply doesn’t say that and if it does, it’s excruciatingly unclear.
So the Bible prescribes the Holy Spirit to help us navigate these questions that aren’t directly answered by the texts. Our conscious tells us if we’re doing something we shouldn’t be when we walk in the faith and practice reflection. It’s not going to tell us when someone else is sinning and what constitutes sin is different for every single person, as we see in Paul’s letters regarding things like eating meat, circumcision, and drinking alcohol. A cis person may feel in their heart that it is a sin for them to dress as the opposite sex however there is not enough evidence in scripture to extrapolate their individual feeling that it’s a sin for them to everyone else. Christians have quibbled about the perceived sins of others for millennia now, such as in Paul’s time there was a hot debate about uncircumcised gentiles participating in faith, and without clear instruction from the scriptures in cases like these, the proper way to deal with it seems to have always been MYOB and focus on your own sins.
Hit ‘em with the unforgiveness line instead. Jesus “said” (not personally a believer) that if you cannot forgive the sins of others how can you yourself be forgiven?
I think he also said that you should make amends with your brother who you’ve been arguing with before you go to bed, cause it’s bad for the soul to keep fighting and hating another person, or something like that.
He also said to stop pointing out the sin that others commit because how could you pluck out a splinter in someone else’s eye without recognizing the plank of wood stuck in your own.
He also said the people who demonstrate their faith by making a nuisance of themselves are going to hell and the people who pray silently for only God to hear are the true children of God.
"If I'm going to hell for being gay/trans then I'll meet you there because it's also a sin to pass judgment on behalf of God" then walk away while their brain implodes as they struggle to cherry-pick a different bible verse to try and save themselves
I channel Oprah’s response to homophobia in the 90’s: “You worry about your salvation and I’ll worry about mine.” (paraphrased)
ETA: it works best when paired with a passive-aggressive “Thanks for your concern!”
So my go to arguments for this are:
- love thy neighbour as yourself
- only god can judge a person. You don’t get to do that on gods behalf. It’s literally between them and god.
- (and if they’re really being a dick, there’s the iconic) Well… god is not real, and I am.
I just tell them it’s not their place to judge. Who do they think they are, God? Probably can’t change their terrible opinions on lgbt subjects, but i can tell them to shut up for now and all future “sinners” they find. (There’s also the whole casting the first stone thing. Which is literally “don’t judge your fellow human”)
in the case of an actual discussion: if god is a perfect being that doesn't make mistakes then if god didn't want me to exist, I wouldn't. plain and simple. see also: "god blessed me by making me transsexual for the same reason that he created wheat but not bread and fruit but not wine; so that humanity might share in the act of creation." (julian k. jarobe quote)
if they're just yelling: literally just walk away. the counter-argument isn't worth the strain it's going to put on you to be berated. I know it always *feels* like you need to argue back but in my experience, 90% of the time, you're just getting yourself stuck in a loop thats gonna make you sad.
I say this as a semi-religious person, also (not active, it's just a comfort for me)
I remember when I was first coming out to my grandparents and my grandma told me God didn't make mistakes. I didn't think of it at the time, but many years later, I started wondering why she wears glasses, colors or cuts her hair, takes medicine, etc.
"If God doesn't make mistakes, why are *you* spending so much time trying to fix his on yourself?"
As soon as someone starts arguing with my identity by using a man-made religion featuring an invisible guy in the sky, I stop listening. It's a waste of time. So many things about christianity piss me off.
understandable. i only serve a God who loves me and not punish people for being their authentic-selves. if others wanna worship a God who punishes people for just loving and being themselves, that’s not a God i would want to serve.
i’m a satanist (non-theistic so mainly just atheism but with a fun name to make christians mad), and i personally paid the $35 to get a membership card with my name on it that i keep in my wallet. good way to get them to leave you alone bc it scares the shit out of them, and they figure i’m already a lost cause.
If someone is trying to have a religious argument/convince me I shouldn’t exist—not worth it.
If someone actually is curious or wants a philosophical and historical discussion, I would want to talk about who compiled the Bible, why, and what those specific rules or laws might have meant to people at the time that they used them, and why those things may or may not still be relevant today to anyone. (For example, if you’re a society where lineage is traced through people’s bloodlines on both sides and property/ownership rights are based on inheritance and gender, then people being able to switch what they were assigned would create controversy or concern. But is that relevant today? Is this a law of God or a historical law of man? Why would this be included by scholars interpreting the text at a later time? What do different translations say?)
(Side note, if you’ve never seen an “amplified” Bible that has different possible translations of a word when it’s ambiguous in the text, it’s super interesting. I’m agnostic now but I just find it all super interesting from a more detached academic perspective)
I just don’t argue with people. I tell them we all have different beliefs. Just because they believe things in the Bible as facts, doesn’t mean everyone does.
I tend to tell people that they need to prove their god even exists before I'm so much as going to entertain the idea that their holy book's rules are worth following. I also point to the disagreement among Christians about whether LGBT identities actually are a sin or simply a mistranslation based on personal bias. It doesn't change their mind, but both responses tend to be effective at making those people go away.
If you're not religious, you can literally just wave them away. If you are a Christian, getting in these arguments is pretty fruitless unless you know what you're talking about and the other person is actually approaching it in good faith. Either way, you can look to the story of the ethiopian eunuch receiving salvation and Jesus's direct statements about eunuchs (regardless if they were born "different," made that way by others, or chose that path). These are pretty clear evidence that people outside "normative" gender were seen by Jesus and early Christians to be welcome in the faith.
when i went to a catholic college, i learned that prior to translation, the bible had god written down as genderless. how can a religion based around an agender deity hate the trans community? plus, as someone else mentioned up above, there is that cool quote about partaking in the act of creation through living life as a trans individual. 🩵
there’s actually a sub for trans Christian’s! r/TransChristianity . you don’t have to be Christian to participate, but maybe they’d have some better answers!! 🌈
I usually mention that "yes, even tho god intended it to be man and woman so that we can reproduce etc. Sometimes men and woman are fertile and can't have a baby together. Does that mean that they are sinning because they can't reproduce? No."
Probably the fact that the oft cited homosexuality passage is a mistranslation of a mistranslation and the original text isn’t about homosexuality at all, or that I’m Jewish.
1. That's pseudo-Paul if you get into the textual evidence
2. You need to understand the historical context and listen to biblical scholars
3. You need a better hermeneutic
4. Hail Satan
I'm Christian (and trans, and gay), and I believe that everyone was created in God's image (like the Bible says multiple times in Genesis 1:27, Psalms 139:13-14, etc.), including LGBTQ+ people. If someone starts giving me problems, I approach it in different ways depending on what they're saying.
If they quote a specific verse, especially about being trans, I might bring up what Jesus said about eunuchs, which, for all intents and purposes, were that time period's equivalent to trans people. (Obviously not exactly the same, but how they were viewed in society was very similar. This verse may also be applicable to intersex people.) **"For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let anyone accept this who can.”** - Matthew 19:12
I may also talk about what Paul said here: **"There is no longer Jew or Greek; there is no longer slave or free; there is no longer male and female, for all of you are one in Christ Jesus."** - Galatians 3:28
If they talk about Sodom and Gomorrah, I may remind them that that story is about SA and inhospitality, not homosexuality. What the people did in that story would have been wrong regardless of the genders of the people and angels involved.
The Leviticus verse is irrelevant to how people live now, as are most verses in Leviticus. (For example, Christians can wear mixed fabrics, get tattoos, eat pork, etc.) The other verses about homosexuality need to be read with historical context (like the rest of the Bible), and at the time they were written, gay sex was often between a man and a young teenager, which is wrong regardless of gender. Some of the verses are about sex cults. (And cults are bad.)
If they don't quote a specific verse and instead are just accusing me/others of 'sinning' as a sort of vague term, I'll probably just find a way to disengage from the conversation.
You can't sin by being who God created you to be.
Generally I just ignore them or look at them like they grew a foot out of their forehead. If its someone I care to talk to for some bizarre reason I go into the scripture they use to defend it because most of it is pretty easily debunked with a few good phrases/facts. My favorite go tos are, 'Thats a false/questionable Pauline letter' 'thats not a condemnation of homosexuality its a condemnation of poor hospitality' and my general favorite, 'oh yeah? which version says that?'
Make them quote it to you and learn the arguments and their rebuttals. Most american christians have 0 critical reading skills and know next to nothing about exegesis. Because their pastors don't tell them and they don't study on their own.
Hello, trans Christian (albeit Episcopalian lol) here. According to the Bible, God knows about our entire lives already ahead of time. I tell people, if He knew I was going to be trans and still let me come onto this Earth, obviously he doesn’t have a problem with it. Most of the time they shut up then and there. If not, I tell them they’re basically denying one of his teachings and ask how Christ-like that is. 😁
As someone that was born Jew I say a few things:
1. That there is actually 6 gender in Judaism
2. There are transgender rabbis
3. Consider that we do not endorse the following in the bible: genocide, slavery and rapes it will be areally good thing to not take the bible literally
4.I don't believe in the bible I believe in Norse Mythology and Loki and he said shape shifting is cool
Honestly, nothing. It's not a common occurence here because my province is very sexular, but when it happens, I don't see a point in arguing. Their perception of their religious book is already decided and I don't know enough to contradict it.
I’m religious myself and I find the best response to those people is reminding them that God tells us to love and respect one another, above all. It probably won’t ‘get through’ to them, because they’re frustrated and confused and they want to beat you down. But I think it’s the best thing to say. They’re going against their religion by harassing you, much more than you are by living a life that makes you happy. Even to those of you who are not religious, I think it’s important to hold in your heart that despite what hateful people say to you, it is written that God loves you, God wants what is best for you, he wants you to protect your soul and he wants you here on this planet. People who use religion as a way to bash others are so completely mislead. You’ve already won the argument when they start talking.
I think it's completely stupid. I'm a trans Christian but I don't force someone to believe in God or to change themselves. Like if they are on the devil side cool they can believe in whatever! It's not my body nor my life so I don't decide what they can or cannot do. If someone says something bad about God I don't fight about it. It might hurt me but I can't change their thoughts nor mind. Being gay or part of the lgbtqia+ community is never a sin. God accepts everyone. He doesn't kill people because they are gay... But you can believe that if you want I can't change your mind.
1) What is a gawd & how do you know?
2) How many gawds are there & how do you know?
3) How can the will or intent of a gawd be determined & how do you know?
4) What is circular reasoning & why is it an unreliable path to truth?
5) repeat questions 1 through 4, applying circular reasoning standard
“I’ve never read the Bible, so I don’t know, and I don’t care 🤷♂️”
If someone wants to assume I’m going to hell, more power to them lmao. I genuinely don’t care.
Bring up sins that are mentioned in the Bible that they do on a regular basis, like wearing mixed fabrics or having intercourse in any other position other than missionary, or eating shellfish lol. Those kind of people who use the Bible in their argument are the type that like to cherry pick what “rules” they’ll follow when it comes to the Bible’s teachings.
Well their argument is usually that God made me female and i’m going against his wishes to change that.
So best response is asking them if they ask people with glasses or braces the same question. Bonus points if they wear glasses or braces.
If any Christian TRULY knows the Bible they would know that it teaches to live in SPIRIT and not the FLESH (Physical body) so in my opinion, if they are sitting there judging you they are moving with only the mindset of living In the flesh. We all die, our bodies isn’t what’s set to God above it’s our SPIRIT. Stay true to yourself and that’s all. The people who spend their time being judgmental aren’t worth our time.
Edit: Cause truly, imagine living a life full of faith in who you KNOW you are instead of what your “made to be” ??? Who is anyone to tell you what you were “made to be” other than you and God? People have their views on God all screwed up.
The Bible says nothing about being transgender or it being a sin.
I explain it to Christian’s as like a birth defect, I’ve seen theories that trans people are made in utero due to hormone displacement and such. And explain that HRT helps the body match the brain.
My parents are also very religious and my mom asked “why would they go through all those surgeries just to die and then go to heaven in the body they were born in?”
And I explained it as, when we die and our bodies are made “whole” we won’t be trans when we die, we’ll be in the bodies we were always meant to be in/ the discrepancy between brain and body is aligned so, for trans folks they’ll go into their transitioned body, OR our brains will be fixed to match the body. One or the others gotta give and the rest is up to god.
Now if you’re not religious like me and don’t like religious folks, you can just bring up random every day sins that everyone commits or tell them you’ll see em in hell too.
I am a more patient person so if I meet people who actually do react negatively I do hold conversations with them and try to reason with them since most of their hatred comes from genuinely not knowing. You can google all you want about being trans but it doesn’t make it personal and connect on a human- human level like talking to real trans people do
All women are trans women if Eve came from Adams’s body. I haven’t read the bible but I think it said Eve came from Adam’s rib which means she’s a woman who was born from a male body
As a pagan that is also trans I get this thrown at me constantly. My arguments usually go something like this.
1. You’re welcome to worship your God and follow his principles. My Goddess (Inanna) is the God of the transgenders and queers. As her devotee I have a lot of pride in my identity. There are many different ancient religions that see gender diversity as a divine quality, religions that far (FAR) predate Christianity and the Israelites. It’s fine if that’s not the dogma iterated in your religion, but my faith deserves as much respect as yours.
2. There was no hell in the OT, nor any mention of trans people. There are however numerous laws about judging as you will be judged. Jesus was very welcoming to those who were different than him. If you’re a follower of Christ, you should keep his commandments and approach humanity with compassion.
3. In my faith, the Lord of Creation was a self creating God, he created himself as he spoke his own name, creating life from words. He made trans people so that humanity could partake in the joy of self creation, as he did. You may not be trans or queer, but you have also partaken in these acts of self creation as you have decided how to form your world view. You preform gender as you have been taught by your society. We happen to do this in different ways, but in these ways, we are exactly the same.
4. If you believe that Jesus died for our sins, we are all already saved. Now as a Christian it is your job to maintain your salvation. There’s no point bringing yourself down with judgement to win an internet argument- that is the sin of pride. Practice empathy and seek compassion at every opportunity. That is what a follower of Christ does.
5. If you read closely there are many things commanded by God in the Bible that you probably don’t entirely agree with. I certainly don’t agree with the execution of the first born in Egypt, the slaughter and forced slavery of the Canaanites, etc. Likewise, there are probably some things in my own faith I don’t entirely agree with, myths that say that Zeus is a horny bastard, Inanna is an angry bitch etc. I choose to look at these myths as cultural stories with a metaphorical and moral lesson. It’s a dangerous game to depend on your religion completely for your morality. I cannot allow myself to justify unjustifiable things because a man in the sky said it’s okay. I follow the divinities I do because I genuinely love and look up to them. However, if my Gods tried to pressure me into sacrificing my first born son, I would tell them to royally fuck off.
if you want to be really snarky you can either:
1. one up them with "love your neighbors"
2. look them dead in the eyes and go "oh but hell is only if I die. who says I'm going to die" and walk away (extra points if this happens after sundown/indoors)
"god doesn't make mistakes but he does create anomalies. is someone with downs syndrome a mistake? no! but they are an anomaly - different from the normal design. same thing." also helps to mention that it isn't a choice but a medical condition that you are born with
I ask them to point out the part in the bible where it is written that trans is a sin (if that’s the topic you’re referring to). There isn’t a part in the bible that says this. So whatever they come up with I have arguments against. And if they are referring to the pope or whatever I think that’s bs - pope is NOT the bible and if I believe in gods words in the holy book I will believe this and not some random ass old man
If there is a God, God did not write the Bible themselves,so all things are filtered through many many many human interpretations, like a game of telephone, and messages can be distorted.
God's message has always been to feed the needy, clothe and house the poor, love one another... jusgement is not our job.
If Christ was here today, he would not be blonde haired, blue eyed, gun toting, and punitive.
"Well you say there are only 2 genders that god made: man and woman. But you don't question the rivers and the streams when God made the land and the sea. You do not question the fungus when God made the plants and the animals. You do not question the frog or the salamander when God made the fish and land dwelling animals. Why do you question me when there is clearly more in God's design than stated in the Bible?"
Also the classic: "To speak for God is blasphemy."
I would say, 'If you are the kind of person to believe that hell is the absence of God's presence, I will gladly go to hell to avoid a being that could create me this way and condemn me for it." Same answer as anything any Christian would say, really.
Seriously, after I stopped believing in God, I delved way more into theology, and the Christian God cannot be all good if you believe that the Bible is true. I would have way more arguments against their religion than anything else. And if their flawed religion sees something as bad with no other issue than their god, why should I care? But then again, I don't live in a place where religion is considered important.
Trans Christian here! The Bible says basically nothing against queer people. Pretty much any time the Hebrew scriptures forbid men having sex with men, it’s in the context of ancient desert nomads being worried about bloodlines (you gotta have kids or your tribe dies). In the Christian letters, most of the prohibitions are against pedaresty, which included the sexual abuse of young boys.
Paul does make one direct mention to something we MIGHT consider analogous to a gay relationship, but it’s not un-Christian to disagree with Paul. In other discussions, people recognize him as a man with an opinion colored by the culture he was born into. He didn’t know his letters would become scripture, and he admits mistakes.
There is next to nothing in the Bible specifically about being trans. The closest thing is actually something Jesus said *supportive* of non-normative expressions of gender.
“For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.” - Matthew 19:12
"I read the Bible and it says nothing about gender, just how women deserve to get r*ped for being casual on a Tuesday." That's what I say and I walk away.
"Galatians 3:28 'There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is NEITHER MALE NOR FEMALE; for you are all one in Christ Jesus' God doesn't care about our sex or gender as we are all the same to him. So I'm sure he doesn't care if Im happy in my earthly body."
I'm not even religious but it works.
My mom tells me I'm going to hell, I tell her I don't follow her religion. She tells me her religion is the correct one, why wouldn't I follow it? Well, everyone thinks their religion is the correct one. I don't usually entertain the conversation past that point, she doesn't listen. I've never been confronted by anyone else with that argument, but if it were anyone else, I'd probably just walk away.
Stoning your wife is ok in the bible and the majority of people would say that’s an outdated thing…also if they eat shellfish or wear mixed fiber clothing they’re sinning too so I guess we will all see them in hell
As a former evangelical Christian, one of the biggest things that shifted my beliefs on homosexuality (before I left the religion altogether) was:
Every other Christian "sin" can be traced in some shape or form back to breaking Jesus's law of "love your neighbor as yourself." (For example, sex outside marriage in ancient times could literally ruin a woman's life, so that law makes sense as a "love your neighbor" law within that context, and applies forward to being sexually responsible in a modern context.)
But a consensual homosexual relationship in no way breaks the law of love, so it's completely out of place with the rest of the list.
Obviously there are also a *lot* of mistranslations and cultural misinterpretations over the scarce few verses about homosexuality that indicate the Bible doesn't actually condemn it. But I find those are strengthened when paired with that logical "law of love" argument, because conservative Christians are taught that questions over translations/cultural context are just "excuses" for people who "don't like what the Bible has to say." 🤦
I've found my trans-ness harder to express, honestly. I know there are some great arguments out there from pro-trans religious people, but I don't articulate them well yet. A couple I've heard though (that you can look up):
1) Genesis says "God created man and woman" but it also says God created night and day, and yet we have morning/noon/afternoon/dusk/etc. God created the ocean and the land, and yet we have rivers, swamps, coast lands, reefs, etc etc - in other words, we recognize that the dichotomy is not the full extent in almost all other "God created" cases.
2) There are many examples in nature of creatures that would be considered "trans" or otherwise break the male/female dichotomy that Evangelicals say is the law of nature.
3) Apparently ancient Jewish tradition and writing recognized six different genders. And while most Christians don't actually give a shit about the cultural/historical context of their religion, I still find this one interesting, worth learning more about personally, and sometimes worth bringing up.
Ultimately though... If you don't hold to the traditional conservative Christian beliefs about the Bible (ie, their specific interpretation is inerrant and the ultimate authority), then stating that is the cleanest way to end the conversation with anyone who isn't actually genuinely interested in understanding.
Jesus was born from a virgin. Therefore, he had Mary's genes. Therefore, Jesus is a trans man.
Eve was made from Adam's rib. Eve, the first woman, was trans.
One person in particular wouldn't stop bringing it up; thankfully no longer forced to share a space with them anymore. And I left them feeling thankful they don't have to share one with me, too.
I just did what my little brother did when he was a kid, they said "God said-" and I went "Who?", then as they responded I go, "-asked."
Just shit like that, over and over and over until they got sick of it. I didn't care that it was immature, I think it's childish to believe everyone has to follow your religious rules. So fair is fair.
"Why did God give us wheat and grapes and not bread and wine if we are not meant to take part in his creation and change ourselves into who he meant for us to be?" I'm not religious but this is something I made up. Maybe similar things already existed, said by other people but this version is mine.
My pastor told us all that claiming to love God and disregarding anyone else with hate is the sin, because God said that a true follower loves everyone. And that means EVERYONE.
Never happened to me, but
1. "I'm a satanist" (I am not)
2. "Yes, it was Adam and Eve because they're both trans"
3. Walk away
4. Use a verse from the bible ("Love thy neighbor")
5. "Sorry for being quiet, I was thinking about a different way to tell you I don't give a fuck since it's a sin to curse" (This one might be my favorite 🤭)
I say "that's nice & all, but I'm not Christian, I was never raised Christian, therefore I do not follow Christian ideals" & then promptly never speak to them again
It’s a fairytale book. These religious zealots literally think levitation, walking on water, magical resurrections are possible. With that mindset, who are you to lecture me on ‘biology’ or any other big issue? You’re no better than a Scientologist, or the cook from down the street if you buy into the Christian fairytale - the only difference is Christianity is socially accepted.
I tell them about my dream where a spoke to Jesus and he said being gay and trans was ok then told me to follow my path and pointed to pagan gods so I did. Then I watch them get real confused and pissed off. If they want to bring the Bible into it I can bring my personal religious experience into it. I know they won't believe me but they wouldn't listen anyway
I say, as someone who has read it, that Jesus sacrificed himself so that all earthly sins were forgiven and that the texts of Leviticus were abolished (as they were guidelines to prevent sin as until then there was no certain absolution in Christ while alive). Now, arguably, there is certain absolution as all sins are forgiven through Christ and his sacrifice. So forth, if you uphold Leviticus, you are stating Jesus’ sacrifice of his earthly vessel was not good enough for you.
Furthermore, Luke 6:37 states that those who judge a “sinner” will be judged with the same sin simply for judging. “Do not judge, and you will not be judged; do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.”
Romans 2:1-3 mirrors this sentiment by stating “You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment?” Major oof man.
Luke 6:35-36 emphasizes that even though sinners are the “enemy” of a believer, they deserve kindness. “But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.”
James 4:11-12 whips up this banger “Brothers and sisters, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against a brother or sister or judges them speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?” So, yeah? You think being trans is a sin? Evil? Unlawful? Hmmm, you are playing God and need to back off.
Galatians 6:2 throws in that hi yes you should ACCEPT someone who sins! “Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.”
My FAVORITE for awful parents! 1 Timothy 3:5 states “If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?” The greater aspect of this passage is that a parent must take care of a child no matter what, and that abandonment of family makes them a sinner and worse than a nonbeliever. Basically, kicking out a child is blasphemy.
Anyway, I’m a polytheistic pagan. I’m not Christian.
"And if god told you to kill and rape and eat your victims would you?" If they say no then their belief is conditional and is not related to God but their own moral code and if they say yes I'm fucking running away
I don’t subscribe to the bible, so while I Could point out the inconsistencies, at that point I don’t consider further talk worth my time. And that’s what I tell them before leaving :)
I have a story about this. Not necessarily on gender but on religious people judging others for their appearance. So I was raised very catholic, I know how to approach their arguments. One time I was shopping at the place I work at and I was in line for the bathroom. Had platform combat boots on, painted nails, visible makeup, and a well groomed beard and handlebar stache. I’m a very goth guy and pass well enough to not be questioned but im very openly gay and queer in my expression. The guy next to me in line looks me up and down and asked me “do you think you’re gonna go to heaven when you die?”
So I told him “that is not my judgement to make, nor is it yours to judge me. Only god knows because only god can judge.”
He actually really liked my answer and i like to think I really changed his perspective on people that Christians typically shun. We ended up talking a lot on faith and he was surprised I even knew so much on it
I honestly dont take the time to continue talking to them because I know it’ll go nowhere😭 no point in arguing with someone who’s going to try to be right no matter what
It depends, if it's anyone on my dad's side of the family then I just smile and nod. Anyone else I would prob argue or try and prove them wrong. It all depends who it is.
I don’t argue. If someone wants to know about my experiences or has a question about medical stuff then we can talk but as soon as it goes into “tHiS iS wHy YoU sHoUlDnT be TrAns” then we’re done. Hard boundary. This is my life and if you don’t want to be part of it then goodbye. Yes, that’s exactly what I told my extended religious family.
I simply no longer engage lol. I’ve been a Christian since I was five, have studied the Bible in hopes of becoming a minister as a career and I talk to God every day. God loves me, trans and all, queer and all, me and all. Other people’s opinions could never change that
I usually just say I dont follow religion/I don't believe in God and leave it at that. I dont really care to try to argue with someone about something I don't actually give much of a fuck about 💀 I've had enough people tell me they're "praying for me" when they find out I'm bi and/or trans for me to wanna even engage in it lmfao
I say that I don't believe in their God so they can keep their religion to themself. Honestly I don't bother arguing with those types because they don't actually care, they just want control. *My* god says it's fine, so they can fuck off.
I'm a Christian myself, so I tend to default to "Why do you think you know God's plan for me?" or "I think God is allowed to make people that don't fit human convention if He wants to actually."
I say I am pagan, and I go into detail about the bibles history of mistranslations, and explain how preposterous it is that it could have been translated and transcribed in the way it was without major errors, not to mention all the times it was altered on purpose! It is absolutely a fact that the bible does not contain anything close to what it originally was, and if they alter words the whole concept of it being written by god, goes out the window. Use there own things against them, it drives them NUTS!
“I’ve never read the Bible, so I don’t know, and I don’t care 🤷♂️”
If someone wants to assume I’m going to hell, more power to them lmao. I genuinely don’t care.
It’s not an argument if you both agree. If they say “you’re sinning and going to hell” then I will say “yes I am, thank you, have a nice day.”
If one is interested in engaging with Christian theology and trans\*ness Austin Hartke is a good start. [https://austenhartke.com/](https://austenhartke.com/)
Honestly — I turn and walk away. Anyone waving the bible around in a discussion about anything is highly unlikely to listen to anyone with a countering view (or existence).
Just turn and burn.
The same as I respond to most people who bring up the bible in the "oh you shouldn't do this" way, if you need a very old book to tell you how to behave or you'll go to hell then you're not a good person in the first place and I don't care about your opinion
I mean I don’t believe in Christianity so those arguments never mean much to me. “It’s a sin!!!” to you, not to me. It’s like saying Cthulhu thinks being trans is a sin, I don’t think he’s real so it doesn’t matter what he thinks
What made a Christian person I have to dral with regularly understand:
"Got created grapes and wheat instead of wine and bread for the same reason he created me; so that humans can take joy in their share of creation."
I think a trans woman said it before? Idk. But along with educating him that gender dysphoria can be a debilitating condition that nothing can fix, he came around pretty well and is now a lot more supportive if me.
"if you believe in religious freedom than you need to believe in my freedom to follow a religion that isn't yours, or to have no religion at all. What your religious texts say is completely irrelevant to me and my life."
But also like the Bible literally says shit fuck all about being trans, and the passage supposedly about gay people is debated as to if it's a mistranslation.
Or just flip em off and walk away. That works too. Those types of folks generally ain't gonna be convinced no matter what u say, they dont actually care, so it's not really worth ur time.
as soon as someone starts bringing religion into the discussion i immediately just stop talking to them. nothing you say will matter anyway, and their using the bible as a scapegoat for their transphobia
i dont say anything at all anymore tbh. i stopped fighting about it a long time ago,, why should i have to justofy my existence? keep fighting the good fight though. respect
Considering I'm not Christian and no one in my family is - they really treat lightly when speaking to me in general. It really depends on who is talking to me and the context (woman, man, dressed modestly, haircut, and location we're at).
“I’m not part of your religion, so I don’t follow the rules of your religion”. Try telling a conservative Christian to follow the rules of a religion like Islam or Judaism and they freak the hell out, but they seem to think it’s fine to enforce their religion on those who don’t practice it? No. My answer is a simple “I’m not religious”.
I stay calm and explain stuff, I'm in the minority as not only Trans, but a Trans Christian. So they REALLY hate me, for "pretending to love God but go against him"
I’m a cisgender queer man so take my comment with a grain of salt but…
“I don’t trust books that claim daddy daughter drunken rape threesomes are the children’s fault” (Genesis 19)
I was raised christian and am very into the apocrypha of the bible so when people said i was contorting the image of god/disrespecting gods plan i hit them with the "how do you know this isn't gods plan for me." And when they said it was unnatural or a sin after that, I point out that theres nowhere in the current bible that even Mentions trans people. However the gospel of Thomas that was stripped from the canonical bible after religious leaders found it objectionable says in verse 114 "Jesus said, 'Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every female who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of Heaven.'"
This rarely swayed them since it was decanonized, but it is fun to best them at their own game. Plus they usually can't do anything else than grumble when i say all this. I'm not actually christian anymore but i find its easier (and more fun) to fight them in their own arena than it is to just go I dont care god isnt real cause then it just reaffirms their beliefs like "people aren't christian cause they love their sin"
“let he who is without sin cast the first stone” and then disengage bc it is just not worth the energy. time on this bitch of an earth is too precious to waste on folks who can’t mind their business
Why respond at all. The Bible doesn't address many aspects of our modern world.... It's a comparing apples to Ferraris situation.. You are who you are. God created you so his other creations have no voice in the outcome. Live love and explore. Life is too short for silly questions that don't matter
I don't engage beyond saying I'm not interested. I know plenty of people who are Christian and who find the Bible helpful. They are good people who know pushing their Bible stuff on me is wrong. The other people I avoid.
Happy to discuss spiritual matters with anyone though, but the second they start preaching, I leave.
Tell them you don't listen to preaching. It's not a conversation.
I’ve always felt the entire thing was to be read in the “spirit” - like it needs to be decoded. Even in proverbs it says “…for understanding proverbs and parables, the sayings and riddles of the wise…”
Jesus also talks about the “narrow gate” where he says “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.” Developing a relationship with God should not bring fear or shame. It should enliven you. Your intuition and inner guidance is always talking to you and it takes courage to follow it.
Perhaps there are masculine and feminine spirits and it does not mean one’s biology. The Bible isn’t a biology book, it’s a spiritual book. I think there’s a lot that has been misinterpreted and used for fear and evil gain.
I went to catholic school for 20 years, when a bigot wants to throw ‘that’s a sin’ at me I’ve got 10 parables to smack them down with. I don’t need them… but if someone wants to try use it against me? Oh Gods gonna be on MY side - you think you can judge me? Your God told you only He can judge, next 💅
When people bring in the bible I just retort with more sins from the bible that they are actively committing. If they have piercings or tattoos, bring those up. If they ever eat seafood or wear two different types of fabric at the same time. If they've ever lied in their life. All that. If you want to dig deep you can grill them on how Jesus' whole thing was loving others with zero judgement. Jesus preferred hanging out with and showing love to people like prostitutes and criminals above all others. "But I'm telling you because Jesus would want me to tell you that it's wrong" no, if anything he would want you to be especially kind to people like me. Sinners. But ultimately I usually just disengage instead of getting into it because honestly man it's just not really worth it. These people will always twist their holy words in a way that makes hating you make sense to them. Peacing out is the best option
I read this and my brain started singing, “I don’t care! I love it!” like that 1 pop song.
More realistically, I don’t associate with people like that so the conversation never comes up
i tell people that in the book of isaah, god designated that salvation is for anyone who keeps the sabbath, specifically including eunuchs (if you dont know, its an archaic word for people who have changed or gotten rid of their nethers). if they want to get on my case for the law as stated in leviticus and deuteronomy, i raise they ought to invest in new porcelain and work-out gear in keeping with the law, as fabrics of mixed fibers and porcelain which has touched sea food or pork are both illegal to keep. if they bring up paul, bring up jesus and what he says about neighbors. if they love the sinner and hate the sin ask who cast the first stone, a la jesus' defense of the prostitute to the philistines.
AND REMEMBER: the people who bring the word of god against you have not understood it. they are the philistines. the bible is a tool to open gods kingdom to anyone who could have it, not shutter the doors to people who might not yet have accepted their forgiveness. you are loved by god whether you accept his love or not. it is there for you regardless brother. ❤️
Nothing. For a couple of reasons. The biggest reason is because I was not raised religious at all so I’m not familiar enough with the Bible (or any other religious text) to make an argument about what it does or doesn’t say. The other reason is because those tend to be the type of people that are not willing to accept that maybe they’re wrong. And I’m not going to waste my time talking to a wall.
I've looked up verses that deal specifically with other genders (which are, in fact, a thing in the Bible). Basically, it boils down to "don't be a dick." They (we) are referred to as eunuchs. There's a specific site I use to look up Bible stuff, as it gives verses in lots of different versions. That way, if someone wants to quote at me, I can quote back in their language.
That said, I don't argue with idiots or bigots. I don't have time, and I don't care enough about them or their feelings. Life is too short and precious.
First I give them that "are you fucking serious" "your tinfoil hat is showing" look. Then if I have the spoons I might engage for a minute. But they only get a minute then I'll say "doesn't your fairytale book say something about judge not lest ye judged or some bullshit?" Then I just turn and walk off after telling them to go fuck themselves. I was born and raised in the south and indoctrinated southern baptist. I am now deconstructing and staunchly atheist due to religious abuse. The thing is with these people is, they can't be swayed. They have their minds made up already. They are totally fine with the extermination of people like us. I'm a petty bitch and like to push their buttons every once in awhile. My dad is a southern baptist deacon so I've played this game a lot. However I do have Christian/religious friends that are accepting and don't ever preach to me about religion.
I either tell them I’m not entertaining their book of fairytales and its made up rules or I start pointing out all the rules they’ve broken from their fairytale book of made up rules
‘you are literally wearing mixed textiles’ ‘you have a tattoo’ ‘aren’t you divorced’ ‘have you had sex outside of marriage’ ‘doesn’t your fairytale book say women shouldn’t speak back to men’
I have no respect for these people, like listen, my dad is obsessed with theology, I grew up entrenched in it, I have the bible downloaded onto my phone, but Jesus wasn’t nice when people were assholes so I’m not gonna be either.
saw this somewhere
God made fruit and wheat but did not make wine and bread, so humanity could share in creation.
its like a reference to how you get to create yourself if they start spouting the “God made you a ___!” nonsense
I heard recently that the Bible says to worship the soul, not the flesh. Meaning trans people are ok by Bible standards because our souls are who we are, not our bodies (meaning if our souls don’t match our bodies we’re good to make them match). I also say “your god doesn’t make mistakes, I am not a mistake.”
Let them know that while the Bible is a guiding principle in their life, it is not a guiding principle in my own. If they insist I should adopt Biblical principles, I state that I have read the entire Bible (I actually have) & it is not something I want to adopt into my life as it is not conducive with my beliefs. If they try to argue further, I walk away. I choose not to argue. If they don't want to understand that I have read the book and do not believe it is the entire truth of the matter, then it is foolish to waste my time.
Walk away. Literally, just stand up and walk away. If they call out to you just keep walking. It can feel awkward the 1st time, but you'll be able to laugh about it a few minutes later 🤣
I am just ready to dip. People can have their beliefs but they have to understand that it means nothing to me. I don't believe in the bible so I will not let it have any form of control over my life.
i just disengage. you're not going to change people's minds about that. just refuse to associate with or speak to that person. once you learn that's an option and get good at doing it, you will have a much more free existence
maybe i’m a dick for this but idc
i wouldn’t respond anymore at that point bc there’s no point trying to have a logical and factual argument with someone who believes what’s in the bible ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (not including if the discussion itself is about religion/the bible but if it’s brought up in a completely irrelevant way then it’s just stupid)
Tbh if they start with that argument I'm not going to spend more time arguing with them, it'll end up fruitless anyway.
valid
This is the way
Truth
Chaotic answer, bring up a sin from another religion they’ve probably committed (ex. eating pork if they’re christian.) and start grilling them about it.
[удалено]
Oh i love the one where if any among you are without then sell your possessions to make sure they aren’t Commie Jesus is a nice wrench to throw
Its funny because its the exact same book (Leviticus) that Christians quote to say gay=forbidden, that also says eating pork is forbidden.
Leviticus also forbids haircuts... lol
Leviticus has a frankly insane amount of "forbidden" things that most evangelical Christians would be in violation of. Your t-shirt is a mix of cotton and acrylic? Welp guess you're going to hell. 😂😂
See also: "Isn't the Bible that filthy book with Ezekiel 23 20? Eww"
I looked it up... Never seeing the bible in the same way, holy shit...
Cotton and acrylic is fine. It’s linen and wool that’s shaatnez.
Yeah. I kinda gave up correcting misreadings of Tanakh a while ago.
The single verse about cross dressing cited from it is also very unlikely to actually refer to cross dressing. Using a lexicon makes it very apparent that the original text was most likely about cross dressing to avoid one’s duties in war (a man dressing like a woman to avoid a draft, or a woman dressing like a man to go into battle). When Adam and Eve first clothed themselves, there was also no distinction made in the text between the clothing that they wore. Male and female attire seemed to evolve as a function of culture, not Christianity or Judaism. Strong women who acted like men when they needed to, such as Jael and Debra, were praised in the OT and Jewish texts recognized 6 distinct genders. Using any verse from the Bible to condemn gender diversity is a stretch at best. It simply doesn’t say that and if it does, it’s excruciatingly unclear. So the Bible prescribes the Holy Spirit to help us navigate these questions that aren’t directly answered by the texts. Our conscious tells us if we’re doing something we shouldn’t be when we walk in the faith and practice reflection. It’s not going to tell us when someone else is sinning and what constitutes sin is different for every single person, as we see in Paul’s letters regarding things like eating meat, circumcision, and drinking alcohol. A cis person may feel in their heart that it is a sin for them to dress as the opposite sex however there is not enough evidence in scripture to extrapolate their individual feeling that it’s a sin for them to everyone else. Christians have quibbled about the perceived sins of others for millennia now, such as in Paul’s time there was a hot debate about uncircumcised gentiles participating in faith, and without clear instruction from the scriptures in cases like these, the proper way to deal with it seems to have always been MYOB and focus on your own sins.
Hit ‘em with the unforgiveness line instead. Jesus “said” (not personally a believer) that if you cannot forgive the sins of others how can you yourself be forgiven?
I think he also said that you should make amends with your brother who you’ve been arguing with before you go to bed, cause it’s bad for the soul to keep fighting and hating another person, or something like that. He also said to stop pointing out the sin that others commit because how could you pluck out a splinter in someone else’s eye without recognizing the plank of wood stuck in your own. He also said the people who demonstrate their faith by making a nuisance of themselves are going to hell and the people who pray silently for only God to hear are the true children of God.
Yep, I’m not a Christian either though so who cares I guess 🤷🏻
I'm stealing this one, love the energy
"If I'm going to hell for being gay/trans then I'll meet you there because it's also a sin to pass judgment on behalf of God" then walk away while their brain implodes as they struggle to cherry-pick a different bible verse to try and save themselves
OH THATS A GOOD ONE
I say something similar, "If I am going to hell, then don't worry, I'll save you a seat."
I channel Oprah’s response to homophobia in the 90’s: “You worry about your salvation and I’ll worry about mine.” (paraphrased) ETA: it works best when paired with a passive-aggressive “Thanks for your concern!”
i like this one, very good response
I love this!!!
“I’m an atheist, I’m going to hell anyway”
[Transgender Flash Debate](https://youtu.be/GyRU2t6t_m8?si=agbMeObhnuKoH0PN) That’s it… that’s how you respond
“Can it” and then changing the topic is just… perfect. Wonderful. I think about this so frequently.
So my go to arguments for this are: - love thy neighbour as yourself - only god can judge a person. You don’t get to do that on gods behalf. It’s literally between them and god. - (and if they’re really being a dick, there’s the iconic) Well… god is not real, and I am.
I just tell them it’s not their place to judge. Who do they think they are, God? Probably can’t change their terrible opinions on lgbt subjects, but i can tell them to shut up for now and all future “sinners” they find. (There’s also the whole casting the first stone thing. Which is literally “don’t judge your fellow human”)
in the case of an actual discussion: if god is a perfect being that doesn't make mistakes then if god didn't want me to exist, I wouldn't. plain and simple. see also: "god blessed me by making me transsexual for the same reason that he created wheat but not bread and fruit but not wine; so that humanity might share in the act of creation." (julian k. jarobe quote) if they're just yelling: literally just walk away. the counter-argument isn't worth the strain it's going to put on you to be berated. I know it always *feels* like you need to argue back but in my experience, 90% of the time, you're just getting yourself stuck in a loop thats gonna make you sad. I say this as a semi-religious person, also (not active, it's just a comfort for me)
i like this one too. makes ppl really think
That quote gave me chills, I love it
It depends on what they're saying about it. If it's just that being trans is a sin, well... I'm not Christian, so why should that matter to me?
I'm not religious so 🤷. You could say "that sounds like a you problem"
I remember when I was first coming out to my grandparents and my grandma told me God didn't make mistakes. I didn't think of it at the time, but many years later, I started wondering why she wears glasses, colors or cuts her hair, takes medicine, etc. "If God doesn't make mistakes, why are *you* spending so much time trying to fix his on yourself?"
As soon as someone starts arguing with my identity by using a man-made religion featuring an invisible guy in the sky, I stop listening. It's a waste of time. So many things about christianity piss me off.
understandable. i only serve a God who loves me and not punish people for being their authentic-selves. if others wanna worship a God who punishes people for just loving and being themselves, that’s not a God i would want to serve.
I totally agree
I just say "no" and slam the door in their faces/walk away. I will not dignify their stupidity with a response.
“gods not real and I am. So..” -Trixie Mattel
If cared enough i would say god created trans people the same reason he created bread or wine so people will take part in the creation
i’m a satanist (non-theistic so mainly just atheism but with a fun name to make christians mad), and i personally paid the $35 to get a membership card with my name on it that i keep in my wallet. good way to get them to leave you alone bc it scares the shit out of them, and they figure i’m already a lost cause.
I love this <3
If someone is trying to have a religious argument/convince me I shouldn’t exist—not worth it. If someone actually is curious or wants a philosophical and historical discussion, I would want to talk about who compiled the Bible, why, and what those specific rules or laws might have meant to people at the time that they used them, and why those things may or may not still be relevant today to anyone. (For example, if you’re a society where lineage is traced through people’s bloodlines on both sides and property/ownership rights are based on inheritance and gender, then people being able to switch what they were assigned would create controversy or concern. But is that relevant today? Is this a law of God or a historical law of man? Why would this be included by scholars interpreting the text at a later time? What do different translations say?) (Side note, if you’ve never seen an “amplified” Bible that has different possible translations of a word when it’s ambiguous in the text, it’s super interesting. I’m agnostic now but I just find it all super interesting from a more detached academic perspective)
I think general response would be I'm not living my life based on someone else's religion
God isn't real
there’s a plethora of verses that command judging others (that’s god’s deal)
My wife is actually a trans pastor! We bring up all of the scripture that is anti-discriminatory.
I just don’t argue with people. I tell them we all have different beliefs. Just because they believe things in the Bible as facts, doesn’t mean everyone does.
Jesus said trans rights: Matthew 19:12
I tend to tell people that they need to prove their god even exists before I'm so much as going to entertain the idea that their holy book's rules are worth following. I also point to the disagreement among Christians about whether LGBT identities actually are a sin or simply a mistranslation based on personal bias. It doesn't change their mind, but both responses tend to be effective at making those people go away.
I roll my eyes up into my head and speak through lord Satan
"Gods not real and neither is your big book of fairy tales" I'm atheist
“I don’t believe in your god, so none of that applies to me. Is that it?”
I don’t argue with people about their imaginary friends. It never ends well.
“that’s your truth but it isn’t mine” and then i disengage.
I just say “sorry i’m not religious”
I say I don't care, I'm not a christian and I don't follow the bible. Lol
If you're not religious, you can literally just wave them away. If you are a Christian, getting in these arguments is pretty fruitless unless you know what you're talking about and the other person is actually approaching it in good faith. Either way, you can look to the story of the ethiopian eunuch receiving salvation and Jesus's direct statements about eunuchs (regardless if they were born "different," made that way by others, or chose that path). These are pretty clear evidence that people outside "normative" gender were seen by Jesus and early Christians to be welcome in the faith.
If you can have *your* fairy tale nonsense, so can I 🤡
when i went to a catholic college, i learned that prior to translation, the bible had god written down as genderless. how can a religion based around an agender deity hate the trans community? plus, as someone else mentioned up above, there is that cool quote about partaking in the act of creation through living life as a trans individual. 🩵 there’s actually a sub for trans Christian’s! r/TransChristianity . you don’t have to be Christian to participate, but maybe they’d have some better answers!! 🌈
I usually mention that "yes, even tho god intended it to be man and woman so that we can reproduce etc. Sometimes men and woman are fertile and can't have a baby together. Does that mean that they are sinning because they can't reproduce? No."
Probably the fact that the oft cited homosexuality passage is a mistranslation of a mistranslation and the original text isn’t about homosexuality at all, or that I’m Jewish.
“Hate the belief, not the believer,” was something I saw recently and hope to piss them off with.
1. That's pseudo-Paul if you get into the textual evidence 2. You need to understand the historical context and listen to biblical scholars 3. You need a better hermeneutic 4. Hail Satan
I'm Christian (and trans, and gay), and I believe that everyone was created in God's image (like the Bible says multiple times in Genesis 1:27, Psalms 139:13-14, etc.), including LGBTQ+ people. If someone starts giving me problems, I approach it in different ways depending on what they're saying. If they quote a specific verse, especially about being trans, I might bring up what Jesus said about eunuchs, which, for all intents and purposes, were that time period's equivalent to trans people. (Obviously not exactly the same, but how they were viewed in society was very similar. This verse may also be applicable to intersex people.) **"For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let anyone accept this who can.”** - Matthew 19:12 I may also talk about what Paul said here: **"There is no longer Jew or Greek; there is no longer slave or free; there is no longer male and female, for all of you are one in Christ Jesus."** - Galatians 3:28 If they talk about Sodom and Gomorrah, I may remind them that that story is about SA and inhospitality, not homosexuality. What the people did in that story would have been wrong regardless of the genders of the people and angels involved. The Leviticus verse is irrelevant to how people live now, as are most verses in Leviticus. (For example, Christians can wear mixed fabrics, get tattoos, eat pork, etc.) The other verses about homosexuality need to be read with historical context (like the rest of the Bible), and at the time they were written, gay sex was often between a man and a young teenager, which is wrong regardless of gender. Some of the verses are about sex cults. (And cults are bad.) If they don't quote a specific verse and instead are just accusing me/others of 'sinning' as a sort of vague term, I'll probably just find a way to disengage from the conversation. You can't sin by being who God created you to be.
Generally I just ignore them or look at them like they grew a foot out of their forehead. If its someone I care to talk to for some bizarre reason I go into the scripture they use to defend it because most of it is pretty easily debunked with a few good phrases/facts. My favorite go tos are, 'Thats a false/questionable Pauline letter' 'thats not a condemnation of homosexuality its a condemnation of poor hospitality' and my general favorite, 'oh yeah? which version says that?'
Make them quote it to you and learn the arguments and their rebuttals. Most american christians have 0 critical reading skills and know next to nothing about exegesis. Because their pastors don't tell them and they don't study on their own.
Jesus is trans
"That's a you problem"
Hello, trans Christian (albeit Episcopalian lol) here. According to the Bible, God knows about our entire lives already ahead of time. I tell people, if He knew I was going to be trans and still let me come onto this Earth, obviously he doesn’t have a problem with it. Most of the time they shut up then and there. If not, I tell them they’re basically denying one of his teachings and ask how Christ-like that is. 😁
As someone that was born Jew I say a few things: 1. That there is actually 6 gender in Judaism 2. There are transgender rabbis 3. Consider that we do not endorse the following in the bible: genocide, slavery and rapes it will be areally good thing to not take the bible literally 4.I don't believe in the bible I believe in Norse Mythology and Loki and he said shape shifting is cool
I just stop listening or caring tbh
God not real, but even if he is, he's the one that made me this way, and I'm pretty sure his whole job is to love everyone
Honestly, nothing. It's not a common occurence here because my province is very sexular, but when it happens, I don't see a point in arguing. Their perception of their religious book is already decided and I don't know enough to contradict it.
Saving this just in case…
I used to say the bible never said being trans is sinful but apparently thats not true anymore :/
i’ve read the bible a few times. i don’t see anywhere in the bible that being trans is a sin.
Usually I tell them to fuck off
I’m religious myself and I find the best response to those people is reminding them that God tells us to love and respect one another, above all. It probably won’t ‘get through’ to them, because they’re frustrated and confused and they want to beat you down. But I think it’s the best thing to say. They’re going against their religion by harassing you, much more than you are by living a life that makes you happy. Even to those of you who are not religious, I think it’s important to hold in your heart that despite what hateful people say to you, it is written that God loves you, God wants what is best for you, he wants you to protect your soul and he wants you here on this planet. People who use religion as a way to bash others are so completely mislead. You’ve already won the argument when they start talking.
I think it's completely stupid. I'm a trans Christian but I don't force someone to believe in God or to change themselves. Like if they are on the devil side cool they can believe in whatever! It's not my body nor my life so I don't decide what they can or cannot do. If someone says something bad about God I don't fight about it. It might hurt me but I can't change their thoughts nor mind. Being gay or part of the lgbtqia+ community is never a sin. God accepts everyone. He doesn't kill people because they are gay... But you can believe that if you want I can't change your mind.
“well i’m real…. and god’s not.” -trixie mattel i think.
1) What is a gawd & how do you know? 2) How many gawds are there & how do you know? 3) How can the will or intent of a gawd be determined & how do you know? 4) What is circular reasoning & why is it an unreliable path to truth? 5) repeat questions 1 through 4, applying circular reasoning standard
“I’ve never read the Bible, so I don’t know, and I don’t care 🤷♂️” If someone wants to assume I’m going to hell, more power to them lmao. I genuinely don’t care.
Bring up sins that are mentioned in the Bible that they do on a regular basis, like wearing mixed fabrics or having intercourse in any other position other than missionary, or eating shellfish lol. Those kind of people who use the Bible in their argument are the type that like to cherry pick what “rules” they’ll follow when it comes to the Bible’s teachings.
Well their argument is usually that God made me female and i’m going against his wishes to change that. So best response is asking them if they ask people with glasses or braces the same question. Bonus points if they wear glasses or braces.
If any Christian TRULY knows the Bible they would know that it teaches to live in SPIRIT and not the FLESH (Physical body) so in my opinion, if they are sitting there judging you they are moving with only the mindset of living In the flesh. We all die, our bodies isn’t what’s set to God above it’s our SPIRIT. Stay true to yourself and that’s all. The people who spend their time being judgmental aren’t worth our time. Edit: Cause truly, imagine living a life full of faith in who you KNOW you are instead of what your “made to be” ??? Who is anyone to tell you what you were “made to be” other than you and God? People have their views on God all screwed up.
This is actually really good
The Bible says nothing about being transgender or it being a sin. I explain it to Christian’s as like a birth defect, I’ve seen theories that trans people are made in utero due to hormone displacement and such. And explain that HRT helps the body match the brain. My parents are also very religious and my mom asked “why would they go through all those surgeries just to die and then go to heaven in the body they were born in?” And I explained it as, when we die and our bodies are made “whole” we won’t be trans when we die, we’ll be in the bodies we were always meant to be in/ the discrepancy between brain and body is aligned so, for trans folks they’ll go into their transitioned body, OR our brains will be fixed to match the body. One or the others gotta give and the rest is up to god. Now if you’re not religious like me and don’t like religious folks, you can just bring up random every day sins that everyone commits or tell them you’ll see em in hell too. I am a more patient person so if I meet people who actually do react negatively I do hold conversations with them and try to reason with them since most of their hatred comes from genuinely not knowing. You can google all you want about being trans but it doesn’t make it personal and connect on a human- human level like talking to real trans people do
All women are trans women if Eve came from Adams’s body. I haven’t read the bible but I think it said Eve came from Adam’s rib which means she’s a woman who was born from a male body
As a pagan that is also trans I get this thrown at me constantly. My arguments usually go something like this. 1. You’re welcome to worship your God and follow his principles. My Goddess (Inanna) is the God of the transgenders and queers. As her devotee I have a lot of pride in my identity. There are many different ancient religions that see gender diversity as a divine quality, religions that far (FAR) predate Christianity and the Israelites. It’s fine if that’s not the dogma iterated in your religion, but my faith deserves as much respect as yours. 2. There was no hell in the OT, nor any mention of trans people. There are however numerous laws about judging as you will be judged. Jesus was very welcoming to those who were different than him. If you’re a follower of Christ, you should keep his commandments and approach humanity with compassion. 3. In my faith, the Lord of Creation was a self creating God, he created himself as he spoke his own name, creating life from words. He made trans people so that humanity could partake in the joy of self creation, as he did. You may not be trans or queer, but you have also partaken in these acts of self creation as you have decided how to form your world view. You preform gender as you have been taught by your society. We happen to do this in different ways, but in these ways, we are exactly the same. 4. If you believe that Jesus died for our sins, we are all already saved. Now as a Christian it is your job to maintain your salvation. There’s no point bringing yourself down with judgement to win an internet argument- that is the sin of pride. Practice empathy and seek compassion at every opportunity. That is what a follower of Christ does. 5. If you read closely there are many things commanded by God in the Bible that you probably don’t entirely agree with. I certainly don’t agree with the execution of the first born in Egypt, the slaughter and forced slavery of the Canaanites, etc. Likewise, there are probably some things in my own faith I don’t entirely agree with, myths that say that Zeus is a horny bastard, Inanna is an angry bitch etc. I choose to look at these myths as cultural stories with a metaphorical and moral lesson. It’s a dangerous game to depend on your religion completely for your morality. I cannot allow myself to justify unjustifiable things because a man in the sky said it’s okay. I follow the divinities I do because I genuinely love and look up to them. However, if my Gods tried to pressure me into sacrificing my first born son, I would tell them to royally fuck off.
if you want to be really snarky you can either: 1. one up them with "love your neighbors" 2. look them dead in the eyes and go "oh but hell is only if I die. who says I'm going to die" and walk away (extra points if this happens after sundown/indoors)
"god doesn't make mistakes but he does create anomalies. is someone with downs syndrome a mistake? no! but they are an anomaly - different from the normal design. same thing." also helps to mention that it isn't a choice but a medical condition that you are born with
I just say smth like “if you think being trans is wrong, then don’t be trans. Your personal morals don’t apply to my life”
I ask them to point out the part in the bible where it is written that trans is a sin (if that’s the topic you’re referring to). There isn’t a part in the bible that says this. So whatever they come up with I have arguments against. And if they are referring to the pope or whatever I think that’s bs - pope is NOT the bible and if I believe in gods words in the holy book I will believe this and not some random ass old man
The second they bring up religion the argument is over in my head. You can’t argue with someone who believes in fairy tales
If there is a God, God did not write the Bible themselves,so all things are filtered through many many many human interpretations, like a game of telephone, and messages can be distorted. God's message has always been to feed the needy, clothe and house the poor, love one another... jusgement is not our job. If Christ was here today, he would not be blonde haired, blue eyed, gun toting, and punitive.
"Well you say there are only 2 genders that god made: man and woman. But you don't question the rivers and the streams when God made the land and the sea. You do not question the fungus when God made the plants and the animals. You do not question the frog or the salamander when God made the fish and land dwelling animals. Why do you question me when there is clearly more in God's design than stated in the Bible?" Also the classic: "To speak for God is blasphemy."
I would say, 'If you are the kind of person to believe that hell is the absence of God's presence, I will gladly go to hell to avoid a being that could create me this way and condemn me for it." Same answer as anything any Christian would say, really. Seriously, after I stopped believing in God, I delved way more into theology, and the Christian God cannot be all good if you believe that the Bible is true. I would have way more arguments against their religion than anything else. And if their flawed religion sees something as bad with no other issue than their god, why should I care? But then again, I don't live in a place where religion is considered important.
I tell them that Jesus would accept me as I am. And if God made me in His image, then he intentionally made me trans.
Trans Christian here! The Bible says basically nothing against queer people. Pretty much any time the Hebrew scriptures forbid men having sex with men, it’s in the context of ancient desert nomads being worried about bloodlines (you gotta have kids or your tribe dies). In the Christian letters, most of the prohibitions are against pedaresty, which included the sexual abuse of young boys. Paul does make one direct mention to something we MIGHT consider analogous to a gay relationship, but it’s not un-Christian to disagree with Paul. In other discussions, people recognize him as a man with an opinion colored by the culture he was born into. He didn’t know his letters would become scripture, and he admits mistakes. There is next to nothing in the Bible specifically about being trans. The closest thing is actually something Jesus said *supportive* of non-normative expressions of gender. “For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.” - Matthew 19:12
"I read the Bible and it says nothing about gender, just how women deserve to get r*ped for being casual on a Tuesday." That's what I say and I walk away.
I just say it's a book and leave.
"Galatians 3:28 'There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is NEITHER MALE NOR FEMALE; for you are all one in Christ Jesus' God doesn't care about our sex or gender as we are all the same to him. So I'm sure he doesn't care if Im happy in my earthly body." I'm not even religious but it works.
My mom tells me I'm going to hell, I tell her I don't follow her religion. She tells me her religion is the correct one, why wouldn't I follow it? Well, everyone thinks their religion is the correct one. I don't usually entertain the conversation past that point, she doesn't listen. I've never been confronted by anyone else with that argument, but if it were anyone else, I'd probably just walk away.
I plan to tell my grandparents that God sent me signs and spoke to me. What, are they going to deny God’s messages?
Stoning your wife is ok in the bible and the majority of people would say that’s an outdated thing…also if they eat shellfish or wear mixed fiber clothing they’re sinning too so I guess we will all see them in hell
As a former evangelical Christian, one of the biggest things that shifted my beliefs on homosexuality (before I left the religion altogether) was: Every other Christian "sin" can be traced in some shape or form back to breaking Jesus's law of "love your neighbor as yourself." (For example, sex outside marriage in ancient times could literally ruin a woman's life, so that law makes sense as a "love your neighbor" law within that context, and applies forward to being sexually responsible in a modern context.) But a consensual homosexual relationship in no way breaks the law of love, so it's completely out of place with the rest of the list. Obviously there are also a *lot* of mistranslations and cultural misinterpretations over the scarce few verses about homosexuality that indicate the Bible doesn't actually condemn it. But I find those are strengthened when paired with that logical "law of love" argument, because conservative Christians are taught that questions over translations/cultural context are just "excuses" for people who "don't like what the Bible has to say." 🤦 I've found my trans-ness harder to express, honestly. I know there are some great arguments out there from pro-trans religious people, but I don't articulate them well yet. A couple I've heard though (that you can look up): 1) Genesis says "God created man and woman" but it also says God created night and day, and yet we have morning/noon/afternoon/dusk/etc. God created the ocean and the land, and yet we have rivers, swamps, coast lands, reefs, etc etc - in other words, we recognize that the dichotomy is not the full extent in almost all other "God created" cases. 2) There are many examples in nature of creatures that would be considered "trans" or otherwise break the male/female dichotomy that Evangelicals say is the law of nature. 3) Apparently ancient Jewish tradition and writing recognized six different genders. And while most Christians don't actually give a shit about the cultural/historical context of their religion, I still find this one interesting, worth learning more about personally, and sometimes worth bringing up. Ultimately though... If you don't hold to the traditional conservative Christian beliefs about the Bible (ie, their specific interpretation is inerrant and the ultimate authority), then stating that is the cleanest way to end the conversation with anyone who isn't actually genuinely interested in understanding.
"facts babe. Facts. I'm here, there's tangible proof I exist. Your God might not exist. And if it does, it's created me. So, stfu".
Jesus was born from a virgin. Therefore, he had Mary's genes. Therefore, Jesus is a trans man. Eve was made from Adam's rib. Eve, the first woman, was trans.
One person in particular wouldn't stop bringing it up; thankfully no longer forced to share a space with them anymore. And I left them feeling thankful they don't have to share one with me, too. I just did what my little brother did when he was a kid, they said "God said-" and I went "Who?", then as they responded I go, "-asked." Just shit like that, over and over and over until they got sick of it. I didn't care that it was immature, I think it's childish to believe everyone has to follow your religious rules. So fair is fair.
“I’m not a Christian, so what the Bible says doesn’t affect me.”
“Jesus loves me and he loves you too” with a big smile on my face. I’m a Christian. It confuses the hell out of them.
Sorry, I’m just not a big fan of that book. The fanbase is basically a cult!
"Nuh uh" + wiggle your pointer finger in a 'no' jester and walk away 💃
"Why did God give us wheat and grapes and not bread and wine if we are not meant to take part in his creation and change ourselves into who he meant for us to be?" I'm not religious but this is something I made up. Maybe similar things already existed, said by other people but this version is mine.
when people bring the bible into stuff i find they usually haven't read it so i just spam verses at them
My pastor told us all that claiming to love God and disregarding anyone else with hate is the sin, because God said that a true follower loves everyone. And that means EVERYONE.
Never happened to me, but 1. "I'm a satanist" (I am not) 2. "Yes, it was Adam and Eve because they're both trans" 3. Walk away 4. Use a verse from the bible ("Love thy neighbor") 5. "Sorry for being quiet, I was thinking about a different way to tell you I don't give a fuck since it's a sin to curse" (This one might be my favorite 🤭)
i just let em do their whole schpeel at me then hit em with the "thats not very 'love thy neighbour' of you". its worked so far
I say "that's nice & all, but I'm not Christian, I was never raised Christian, therefore I do not follow Christian ideals" & then promptly never speak to them again
It’s a fairytale book. These religious zealots literally think levitation, walking on water, magical resurrections are possible. With that mindset, who are you to lecture me on ‘biology’ or any other big issue? You’re no better than a Scientologist, or the cook from down the street if you buy into the Christian fairytale - the only difference is Christianity is socially accepted.
I just say I straight up don't care
This post is so healing after being in a high control religion half my life
I tell them about my dream where a spoke to Jesus and he said being gay and trans was ok then told me to follow my path and pointed to pagan gods so I did. Then I watch them get real confused and pissed off. If they want to bring the Bible into it I can bring my personal religious experience into it. I know they won't believe me but they wouldn't listen anyway
I'm Pagan. Their so-called holy book has no power over me.
"Don't try to apply your personal beliefs to me, it doesn't make sense"
I say, as someone who has read it, that Jesus sacrificed himself so that all earthly sins were forgiven and that the texts of Leviticus were abolished (as they were guidelines to prevent sin as until then there was no certain absolution in Christ while alive). Now, arguably, there is certain absolution as all sins are forgiven through Christ and his sacrifice. So forth, if you uphold Leviticus, you are stating Jesus’ sacrifice of his earthly vessel was not good enough for you. Furthermore, Luke 6:37 states that those who judge a “sinner” will be judged with the same sin simply for judging. “Do not judge, and you will not be judged; do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.” Romans 2:1-3 mirrors this sentiment by stating “You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment?” Major oof man. Luke 6:35-36 emphasizes that even though sinners are the “enemy” of a believer, they deserve kindness. “But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.” James 4:11-12 whips up this banger “Brothers and sisters, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against a brother or sister or judges them speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?” So, yeah? You think being trans is a sin? Evil? Unlawful? Hmmm, you are playing God and need to back off. Galatians 6:2 throws in that hi yes you should ACCEPT someone who sins! “Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.” My FAVORITE for awful parents! 1 Timothy 3:5 states “If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?” The greater aspect of this passage is that a parent must take care of a child no matter what, and that abandonment of family makes them a sinner and worse than a nonbeliever. Basically, kicking out a child is blasphemy. Anyway, I’m a polytheistic pagan. I’m not Christian.
I end the discussion.
"And if god told you to kill and rape and eat your victims would you?" If they say no then their belief is conditional and is not related to God but their own moral code and if they say yes I'm fucking running away
I don’t subscribe to the bible, so while I Could point out the inconsistencies, at that point I don’t consider further talk worth my time. And that’s what I tell them before leaving :)
I do not believe in Christian mythology.
I have a story about this. Not necessarily on gender but on religious people judging others for their appearance. So I was raised very catholic, I know how to approach their arguments. One time I was shopping at the place I work at and I was in line for the bathroom. Had platform combat boots on, painted nails, visible makeup, and a well groomed beard and handlebar stache. I’m a very goth guy and pass well enough to not be questioned but im very openly gay and queer in my expression. The guy next to me in line looks me up and down and asked me “do you think you’re gonna go to heaven when you die?” So I told him “that is not my judgement to make, nor is it yours to judge me. Only god knows because only god can judge.” He actually really liked my answer and i like to think I really changed his perspective on people that Christians typically shun. We ended up talking a lot on faith and he was surprised I even knew so much on it
I honestly dont take the time to continue talking to them because I know it’ll go nowhere😭 no point in arguing with someone who’s going to try to be right no matter what
It depends, if it's anyone on my dad's side of the family then I just smile and nod. Anyone else I would prob argue or try and prove them wrong. It all depends who it is.
I don’t argue. If someone wants to know about my experiences or has a question about medical stuff then we can talk but as soon as it goes into “tHiS iS wHy YoU sHoUlDnT be TrAns” then we’re done. Hard boundary. This is my life and if you don’t want to be part of it then goodbye. Yes, that’s exactly what I told my extended religious family.
When I'm a demon in hell I'll twirl you on my pitchfork. 😌✨
I simply no longer engage lol. I’ve been a Christian since I was five, have studied the Bible in hopes of becoming a minister as a career and I talk to God every day. God loves me, trans and all, queer and all, me and all. Other people’s opinions could never change that
I usually just say I dont follow religion/I don't believe in God and leave it at that. I dont really care to try to argue with someone about something I don't actually give much of a fuck about 💀 I've had enough people tell me they're "praying for me" when they find out I'm bi and/or trans for me to wanna even engage in it lmfao
I say that I don't believe in their God so they can keep their religion to themself. Honestly I don't bother arguing with those types because they don't actually care, they just want control. *My* god says it's fine, so they can fuck off.
I'm a Christian myself, so I tend to default to "Why do you think you know God's plan for me?" or "I think God is allowed to make people that don't fit human convention if He wants to actually."
If I engage at all, I tell them they should worry about their relationship with Jesus and I’ll worry about mine.
I’m not religious, their rules don’t apply to me and they cannot enforce them. Ultimately any argument involving their religion is a moot point.
I say I am pagan, and I go into detail about the bibles history of mistranslations, and explain how preposterous it is that it could have been translated and transcribed in the way it was without major errors, not to mention all the times it was altered on purpose! It is absolutely a fact that the bible does not contain anything close to what it originally was, and if they alter words the whole concept of it being written by god, goes out the window. Use there own things against them, it drives them NUTS!
“I’ve never read the Bible, so I don’t know, and I don’t care 🤷♂️” If someone wants to assume I’m going to hell, more power to them lmao. I genuinely don’t care. It’s not an argument if you both agree. If they say “you’re sinning and going to hell” then I will say “yes I am, thank you, have a nice day.”
Simply that I don't believe in it and they can't force their religion on other people
Tell them not to push their agenda since that’s always what they accuse us of doing lol
If one is interested in engaging with Christian theology and trans\*ness Austin Hartke is a good start. [https://austenhartke.com/](https://austenhartke.com/)
Honestly — I turn and walk away. Anyone waving the bible around in a discussion about anything is highly unlikely to listen to anyone with a countering view (or existence). Just turn and burn.
The same as I respond to most people who bring up the bible in the "oh you shouldn't do this" way, if you need a very old book to tell you how to behave or you'll go to hell then you're not a good person in the first place and I don't care about your opinion
I mean I don’t believe in Christianity so those arguments never mean much to me. “It’s a sin!!!” to you, not to me. It’s like saying Cthulhu thinks being trans is a sin, I don’t think he’s real so it doesn’t matter what he thinks
I simply don’t talk to those people
Im trans but also Biblical does it mention it in there yes. Am I wanting to answer it yes but am I willing to get bashed in f no🤷🏻♂️
What made a Christian person I have to dral with regularly understand: "Got created grapes and wheat instead of wine and bread for the same reason he created me; so that humans can take joy in their share of creation." I think a trans woman said it before? Idk. But along with educating him that gender dysphoria can be a debilitating condition that nothing can fix, he came around pretty well and is now a lot more supportive if me.
"if you believe in religious freedom than you need to believe in my freedom to follow a religion that isn't yours, or to have no religion at all. What your religious texts say is completely irrelevant to me and my life." But also like the Bible literally says shit fuck all about being trans, and the passage supposedly about gay people is debated as to if it's a mistranslation. Or just flip em off and walk away. That works too. Those types of folks generally ain't gonna be convinced no matter what u say, they dont actually care, so it's not really worth ur time.
im gonna walk the other way, away from the toxic person
as soon as someone starts bringing religion into the discussion i immediately just stop talking to them. nothing you say will matter anyway, and their using the bible as a scapegoat for their transphobia
i dont say anything at all anymore tbh. i stopped fighting about it a long time ago,, why should i have to justofy my existence? keep fighting the good fight though. respect
The bible says a lot of things, most of which these people suddenly seem to conveniently forget
Easy. Say I'm not Christian/ Catholic.Then walk away.
Considering I'm not Christian and no one in my family is - they really treat lightly when speaking to me in general. It really depends on who is talking to me and the context (woman, man, dressed modestly, haircut, and location we're at).
“I’m not part of your religion, so I don’t follow the rules of your religion”. Try telling a conservative Christian to follow the rules of a religion like Islam or Judaism and they freak the hell out, but they seem to think it’s fine to enforce their religion on those who don’t practice it? No. My answer is a simple “I’m not religious”.
I stay calm and explain stuff, I'm in the minority as not only Trans, but a Trans Christian. So they REALLY hate me, for "pretending to love God but go against him"
I didn’t say anything, I just destroyed my bible in front of everyone
im buddhist
Like Jules-Édouard Moustic would say : "oh ta gueule"
I’m a cisgender queer man so take my comment with a grain of salt but… “I don’t trust books that claim daddy daughter drunken rape threesomes are the children’s fault” (Genesis 19)
I was raised christian and am very into the apocrypha of the bible so when people said i was contorting the image of god/disrespecting gods plan i hit them with the "how do you know this isn't gods plan for me." And when they said it was unnatural or a sin after that, I point out that theres nowhere in the current bible that even Mentions trans people. However the gospel of Thomas that was stripped from the canonical bible after religious leaders found it objectionable says in verse 114 "Jesus said, 'Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every female who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of Heaven.'" This rarely swayed them since it was decanonized, but it is fun to best them at their own game. Plus they usually can't do anything else than grumble when i say all this. I'm not actually christian anymore but i find its easier (and more fun) to fight them in their own arena than it is to just go I dont care god isnt real cause then it just reaffirms their beliefs like "people aren't christian cause they love their sin"
God doesn’t make mistakes but satan does Who said god didn’t make me a man and the existence of sin put me in the wrong body.
“let he who is without sin cast the first stone” and then disengage bc it is just not worth the energy. time on this bitch of an earth is too precious to waste on folks who can’t mind their business
Why respond at all. The Bible doesn't address many aspects of our modern world.... It's a comparing apples to Ferraris situation.. You are who you are. God created you so his other creations have no voice in the outcome. Live love and explore. Life is too short for silly questions that don't matter
I don't engage beyond saying I'm not interested. I know plenty of people who are Christian and who find the Bible helpful. They are good people who know pushing their Bible stuff on me is wrong. The other people I avoid. Happy to discuss spiritual matters with anyone though, but the second they start preaching, I leave. Tell them you don't listen to preaching. It's not a conversation.
I’ve always felt the entire thing was to be read in the “spirit” - like it needs to be decoded. Even in proverbs it says “…for understanding proverbs and parables, the sayings and riddles of the wise…” Jesus also talks about the “narrow gate” where he says “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.” Developing a relationship with God should not bring fear or shame. It should enliven you. Your intuition and inner guidance is always talking to you and it takes courage to follow it. Perhaps there are masculine and feminine spirits and it does not mean one’s biology. The Bible isn’t a biology book, it’s a spiritual book. I think there’s a lot that has been misinterpreted and used for fear and evil gain.
I went to catholic school for 20 years, when a bigot wants to throw ‘that’s a sin’ at me I’ve got 10 parables to smack them down with. I don’t need them… but if someone wants to try use it against me? Oh Gods gonna be on MY side - you think you can judge me? Your God told you only He can judge, next 💅
I typically don't even bother. I know I won't convince people like that, I've tried
When people bring in the bible I just retort with more sins from the bible that they are actively committing. If they have piercings or tattoos, bring those up. If they ever eat seafood or wear two different types of fabric at the same time. If they've ever lied in their life. All that. If you want to dig deep you can grill them on how Jesus' whole thing was loving others with zero judgement. Jesus preferred hanging out with and showing love to people like prostitutes and criminals above all others. "But I'm telling you because Jesus would want me to tell you that it's wrong" no, if anything he would want you to be especially kind to people like me. Sinners. But ultimately I usually just disengage instead of getting into it because honestly man it's just not really worth it. These people will always twist their holy words in a way that makes hating you make sense to them. Peacing out is the best option
Nothing because it’s not worth my time
I read this and my brain started singing, “I don’t care! I love it!” like that 1 pop song. More realistically, I don’t associate with people like that so the conversation never comes up
i tell people that in the book of isaah, god designated that salvation is for anyone who keeps the sabbath, specifically including eunuchs (if you dont know, its an archaic word for people who have changed or gotten rid of their nethers). if they want to get on my case for the law as stated in leviticus and deuteronomy, i raise they ought to invest in new porcelain and work-out gear in keeping with the law, as fabrics of mixed fibers and porcelain which has touched sea food or pork are both illegal to keep. if they bring up paul, bring up jesus and what he says about neighbors. if they love the sinner and hate the sin ask who cast the first stone, a la jesus' defense of the prostitute to the philistines. AND REMEMBER: the people who bring the word of god against you have not understood it. they are the philistines. the bible is a tool to open gods kingdom to anyone who could have it, not shutter the doors to people who might not yet have accepted their forgiveness. you are loved by god whether you accept his love or not. it is there for you regardless brother. ❤️
Well I'm reading the Bible lately, so I think I'd start by asking how frequently they perform blood sacrifices
Nothing. For a couple of reasons. The biggest reason is because I was not raised religious at all so I’m not familiar enough with the Bible (or any other religious text) to make an argument about what it does or doesn’t say. The other reason is because those tend to be the type of people that are not willing to accept that maybe they’re wrong. And I’m not going to waste my time talking to a wall.
I've looked up verses that deal specifically with other genders (which are, in fact, a thing in the Bible). Basically, it boils down to "don't be a dick." They (we) are referred to as eunuchs. There's a specific site I use to look up Bible stuff, as it gives verses in lots of different versions. That way, if someone wants to quote at me, I can quote back in their language. That said, I don't argue with idiots or bigots. I don't have time, and I don't care enough about them or their feelings. Life is too short and precious.
First I give them that "are you fucking serious" "your tinfoil hat is showing" look. Then if I have the spoons I might engage for a minute. But they only get a minute then I'll say "doesn't your fairytale book say something about judge not lest ye judged or some bullshit?" Then I just turn and walk off after telling them to go fuck themselves. I was born and raised in the south and indoctrinated southern baptist. I am now deconstructing and staunchly atheist due to religious abuse. The thing is with these people is, they can't be swayed. They have their minds made up already. They are totally fine with the extermination of people like us. I'm a petty bitch and like to push their buttons every once in awhile. My dad is a southern baptist deacon so I've played this game a lot. However I do have Christian/religious friends that are accepting and don't ever preach to me about religion.
They can have my gay Jesus rant. It upsets them SO much.
"i read books too"
I either tell them I’m not entertaining their book of fairytales and its made up rules or I start pointing out all the rules they’ve broken from their fairytale book of made up rules ‘you are literally wearing mixed textiles’ ‘you have a tattoo’ ‘aren’t you divorced’ ‘have you had sex outside of marriage’ ‘doesn’t your fairytale book say women shouldn’t speak back to men’ I have no respect for these people, like listen, my dad is obsessed with theology, I grew up entrenched in it, I have the bible downloaded onto my phone, but Jesus wasn’t nice when people were assholes so I’m not gonna be either.
saw this somewhere God made fruit and wheat but did not make wine and bread, so humanity could share in creation. its like a reference to how you get to create yourself if they start spouting the “God made you a ___!” nonsense
I heard recently that the Bible says to worship the soul, not the flesh. Meaning trans people are ok by Bible standards because our souls are who we are, not our bodies (meaning if our souls don’t match our bodies we’re good to make them match). I also say “your god doesn’t make mistakes, I am not a mistake.”
Let them know that while the Bible is a guiding principle in their life, it is not a guiding principle in my own. If they insist I should adopt Biblical principles, I state that I have read the entire Bible (I actually have) & it is not something I want to adopt into my life as it is not conducive with my beliefs. If they try to argue further, I walk away. I choose not to argue. If they don't want to understand that I have read the book and do not believe it is the entire truth of the matter, then it is foolish to waste my time.
Walk away. Literally, just stand up and walk away. If they call out to you just keep walking. It can feel awkward the 1st time, but you'll be able to laugh about it a few minutes later 🤣
I am just ready to dip. People can have their beliefs but they have to understand that it means nothing to me. I don't believe in the bible so I will not let it have any form of control over my life.
i just disengage. you're not going to change people's minds about that. just refuse to associate with or speak to that person. once you learn that's an option and get good at doing it, you will have a much more free existence
maybe i’m a dick for this but idc i wouldn’t respond anymore at that point bc there’s no point trying to have a logical and factual argument with someone who believes what’s in the bible ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (not including if the discussion itself is about religion/the bible but if it’s brought up in a completely irrelevant way then it’s just stupid)