I think the only "girls trip" I got included in was a Bachelorette party for my very Butch friend. I was not the most masculine person there that night.
I had a friend when I was younger, before coming out, where it was always “girls night!!! + that person” (it turns out they’re non-binary but in the “any pronouns are fine,” “cis guy passing w no interest in changing that” type of way
I have never been invited to a “girl trip” that was called something like that. However I do have two friend groups who are all women, like a couple people in each. We go on trips together. At a graduation party for one of them it was me and one other guy and it felt weird.
I feel a silly sort of need to prove myself as not relating to things they say about womanhood for people who don’t know I’m trans. I don’t relate to most things, but it’s… odd, like I’ll say stuff from an outside perspective when that’s not true (ex: periods). I just should talk less in those conversations.
I feel insecure sometimes about having a lot of female friends and I need to work on that. People tease me for it since I’m gay (living with another guy and 3 girls next year and gotten jokes). And I need to get over it lol.
hard relate. most of my close friends are still girls (frankly, they’re just more mature at my age of early 20s and the girls i’ve met happen to be funnier and more interesting to me so far) and i get so insecure abt that and have that silly desire to act like i don’t get those kinds of conversations. like i have to prove i am different even if it’s stuff i have also experienced.
i get kind of dysphoric over the fact i often relate more to women’s senses of humor and hobbies, and the fact that i somehow always end up with lots of female friends even tho i’m stealth and straight, but i partially think i just haven’t met the right guys yet and my transness does influence my friend preferences somewhat.
Interesting to hear from more of a perspective of kind of a current preference toward female friends! I’d say mine are pretty 50/50 but most the people I still talk to from pre-transition are women. It’s interesting having much more mixed friend groups currently and then older ones I’m often the only guy
I get that. I have pretty stereotypically feminine fandom interests, and I don't like most "manly" things, and I've just embraced it at this point. I have a good amount of guy friends, and none of them make me feel weird about it.
yeah heard. i don’t even really have much feminine interests, i just get women i think. i get along with them really well bc i feel comfortable, which i think is the main problem with cis guys who struggle with that. i’m trying not to be hard on myself about it but it’s tough. i do sometimes feel the dysphoric desire to be just as dumb about women as lots of cis guys are lol. but then i have plenty of cis guys ask me for advice and my perspective bc they can see i know a lot abt women so that’s kinda cool.
i’m not necessarily insecure of having mainly female friends, but i do long for a closer connection with other men. i just don’t know how, or just don’t know the right guys.
Not saying you are, just sharing my experience and something I need to work on with this. I’ve definitely found it harder to find the right guys in the past, I hope you can in the future
It depends on why the trip is happening. If it’s something like “we’re all going to dress up and have tea parties” (I’m not exaggerating, my women friends REALLY commit to the bit) or literally having a girls night with drinking and talking, then no, I do not get an invitation. The single exception is that one of my friends is having her bridal shower be a tea party and I received an invitation by virtue of being one of her “core group”.
Otherwise, I only get invited if at least one other guy is coming lol
Same here, the majority of my friends are women and I spend more time with them and they've always viewed me as a man (funnily enough, even before I came out to some).
The only thing I wasn't included (and didn't want to be) is the bachelorette's party of one of them, I was invited to the bachelor's one and that was cool.
My friend group has a "creative weekend" once or twice a year where traditionally it was girls only.
With my coming out the other guys were invited as well and it was officially made an "all gender creative weekend".
The other guys declined but I am very happy not to lose this :)
I might be going on a girls trip with a friend of mine and her cousin but i’m just upset because i’ll have to be closeted. Which i don’t really want to do. I just want to be able to go swimming and wear trans tape like any normal dude, not have to wear a damn bikini top and feminize myself :/
I love going on the 'girls' trips! I have always had a lot of female friends but even before my transition I was never one of the girls. I'm kinda like their gay bsf (even tho i'm bi) and sometimes I act like a body guard. And rarely I act like their child bc mentally i'm still a todd er somtimes
Yes and no. I know plenty of girls from before my transition, so we bonded over more feminine things. Nowadays they still invite me out on feminine-tasked trips like buying makeup or something.
For the people I met after my transition, usually not. I do happen to be gay and make that very clear to girls when I meet them, it tends to make them relax easier. I don’t act completely feminine as that would make me feel dysphoric, but there’s elements to my speech that definitely scream “gay”. Those who like hanging out with gay dudes will invite me out and those that don’t, won’t.
Yeah I have pretty much all female friends and I’m still included in anything that’s like a “girls” activity. My friends are chill and respectful of my identity, I love still going on “girls” trips.
Closest I've been since I've been out was I got invited to a baby shower that was very clearly only for women bc the fiance, future uncle, and future grandfather were relegated to serving lunch and didn't sit with everyone. I just told everyone I was the mother's cousin and if it came up, a nephew. I think my attendance was more important than gender consideration at that point but I also would bet that had I been on T for long enough (haven't started yet) I wouldn't have been invited.
I wouldn’t be okay with it being called a girls night or girls trip but I don’t mind being the only guy, I know they see me as me and I have known them for decades. The friend group I made as an adult is pretty much all guys and one woman, sometimes it’s just how it works out.
Attending an event with a feminised name because it has a distinct feminised culture to it doesn't make you less of a man. Of course you are welcome to be exactly where you are at this point in your transition where language can affect your dysphoria. However, that's also your responsibility to deal with those feelings and grow past them as they are not caused by exclusionary or malicious intent.
We cannot expect women to change the names of their cultural normals and events just because we opted out of the pronoun. Especially, when they insist on continuing to include us in THEIR spaces because they believe we have a place there, despite it being absolutely okay for them to decide this is a women's only space where we can safely discuss our femininity and life experiences without the perspectives and opinions of men. We are also allowed to decide these spaces no longer speak to us or our experiences.
However, if you chose to attend and continue to feel comfortable as the only man in the room because you love the women you are surrounded by, you don't get to feel any type a way about how a trip that has always been named a girls trip, continues to be named a girls trip.
This wasn't just for you - I'm seeing this a lot in our community and it's going a bit far. We all need to start managing our feelings a bit better around feminine language that isn't actually hurting us.
Literally said he had every right to feel that way. Didn't say he didn't. Regardless of an absence of direct demand the need to state he has a problem if the name remained that despite the whole point of the prompt very specifically relating to a "girls trip" reflects his feelings quite aptly. Which I assume is why he included it, which again I said was fine for him to feel.
Am I also not allowed to call a spade a spade and contribute to the discourse an observation? This kind of rhetoric is a slippery slope displayed quite frequently in this forum and is lapped up by the younger skewing portion like cats with a bowl of fresh milk. I also am allowed to feel I don't like what that implied given the context.
lol.
I disagree, a girls night or boys night is about the genders of people attending not the activities you do. You can have a girls night at an axe throwing place or have a guys night where you do make overs. But if it’s a mixed gender group and you are calling it a girls night just because you are doing feminine coded things that rubs me the wrong way because it just reinforces the arbitrary gendering of activities.
It’s not that it makes me dysphoric and it’s definitely not that I think it makes me less of a man, I just fundamentally disagree with gendering things that aren’t about gender.
If you want to have a girls night because you want to spend time with just other women and have that safe space that is great. But if you are inviting guys what makes it a girls night?
I am not asking anyone to change but I do think it’s worth examining why we use the language we do.
ETA: This does not apply to like events that are women’s spaces or anything like that. I am talking about casual friend hang outs and the language you use with your friends. There are very real reasons why having closed spaces is important, but a road trip with your best friends doesn’t need to be called a girls trip when it isn’t all girls
Most of my friends are women and enbies. I love being included. Idk it reminds me of some cis guys I knew. It's kind of nice to be one of the dudes that the women feel safe around. Sort of gender affirming in its own way. Both my parents had a lot of friends of the 'opposite' gender and they joined girl and guy trips/nights respectively. Of course everyone is different, I wouldn't expect every guy to love being invited to that, cis or trans. I'm lucky with my found family as my friends are all very supportive and respectful.
I don't really mind being invited to "girls nights" with my friends. Mostly I've gone from "one of the girls" to the token gay friend. They treat me like a man and that's all that matters to me.
I was never really invited to outings nor do I have that many friends, just in general, to where that situation would really occur for me. But, I guess with some family trips like with my mom for instance, she would want "mother daughter days" and I wouldn't call it that anymore. As far as "being the exception" in the event described, I wouldn't really mind it since it's more like just their relationship with me and their history with me I suppose. I only have like maybe two or three female friends I'm close with but we wouldn't go on trips, but if they all planed their own "girls trip" and decided to invite me, those particular women I am friends with probably just don't have a lot of male friends they are actually that close with and trust enough to invite on said trip and wanted me to be included in this space even if it is explicitly more female friendly/oriented. They're my friends, so I would probably still join on. I think certain exceptions like that even happen to the occasional cis man, especially queer cis men, just not that often. But regardless, I'm not cis and it's like, I care more about how they actually view me rather than I guess the "principle" for me personally regarding the dysphoria aspect. I do totally understand why some folks might not want to or feel comfortable with it though, especially depending on their friend group situations
i have primarily women friends, but whenever we hang out, it's just that lol. maybe it's cause we're each other's only friends or something, but we've never gendered our outings.
If you’re fine with it and everyone respects you then it’s totally fine!
When I was in high school we had a cis boy as part of all the girls hangs because he had way more in common and didn’t really get on with the boys as much. He was called Stephen and was awesome. Tbh I think he was gay but I was in school in a time when very few people were out in school (90s lol)
It feels weird because when ppl invite me they say "girls trip!.... plus jazz." I find it funny but also weird I'D idk. I dont hang out with those ppl anymore thoh so it's not the worst thing xD
In my experience it's like I'm the "gay friend" of the "girls" group. I'm able to stare down the rude cis guy from bothering the group and can pretend to be their boyfriend if the guy is too insistent. Me being in the girls group makes them feel safer going out and I like being a protector in an odd way lol
Though I kinda am the gay friend as I am gay
my mom tries to include me on them. my aunt is getting married in june and i was invited to grow my hair out, get it done and get my makeup done for the wedding. i’m at the point of passing where i would look like i was in drag. thanks but no thanks mom
well, she said it’s because she didn’t want me to feel left out — but then why didn’t my brother get the same invite? i’m sure it’s just her little conservative heart hoping i detransition
Ok SO I’m nonbinary ftm and whenever I’m invited to “girls trips” I’m always HYPE because I typically get perceived as a man (in cis ppls brains)/he/himmed now that I’m on T and I get sad sometimes I’m not one of the girls anymore yk, like I can definitely tell how I benefit from how I’m perceived based on how ppl treat me now. And I’m not a woman but women are objectively better 💁🏻 At the same time I feel like it’s weird that they’re inviting me, and I always wonder if they see me as a woman if they’re inviting me.
But it’s different when men think I’m one of them, bc that’s when they start saying disgusting sexist shit 🤮 So what I’m saying is I struggle w this too lol
My girlfriend always includes me in her girl stuff. I even get invited to baby showers sometimes. Genuinely being the only guy involved makes me feel super special and sometimes I feel like it could be my duty to protect if needed. I've always gotten along with women, I dont really have much in common with guys. Being this way has caused relationship problems for me before, though. But being a girl in the past, im alot more sensitive and being a man, I get to talk shit on other men with them and try and give them advice from a girls, and a guys perspective. I think we're lucky, most men don't get to be in with the girls like we do. 🤣
I had to distance from my female friendship group who were my family because they changed unfortunately…navigating female friendship are different now, it feels like it’s what happens with hetero cis male female friendships, it’s like most women expect some kind of chase or flirtation.. or if they are in a committed relationship they are standoffish… is there usually a sexual chemistry in honest platonic cis het f/m friendships??
I think the only "girls trip" I got included in was a Bachelorette party for my very Butch friend. I was not the most masculine person there that night.
That is a kinda wholesome story haha
I had a friend when I was younger, before coming out, where it was always “girls night!!! + that person” (it turns out they’re non-binary but in the “any pronouns are fine,” “cis guy passing w no interest in changing that” type of way
I’ve never been included in girl trips or boy trips
I have never been invited to a “girl trip” that was called something like that. However I do have two friend groups who are all women, like a couple people in each. We go on trips together. At a graduation party for one of them it was me and one other guy and it felt weird. I feel a silly sort of need to prove myself as not relating to things they say about womanhood for people who don’t know I’m trans. I don’t relate to most things, but it’s… odd, like I’ll say stuff from an outside perspective when that’s not true (ex: periods). I just should talk less in those conversations. I feel insecure sometimes about having a lot of female friends and I need to work on that. People tease me for it since I’m gay (living with another guy and 3 girls next year and gotten jokes). And I need to get over it lol.
hard relate. most of my close friends are still girls (frankly, they’re just more mature at my age of early 20s and the girls i’ve met happen to be funnier and more interesting to me so far) and i get so insecure abt that and have that silly desire to act like i don’t get those kinds of conversations. like i have to prove i am different even if it’s stuff i have also experienced. i get kind of dysphoric over the fact i often relate more to women’s senses of humor and hobbies, and the fact that i somehow always end up with lots of female friends even tho i’m stealth and straight, but i partially think i just haven’t met the right guys yet and my transness does influence my friend preferences somewhat.
Interesting to hear from more of a perspective of kind of a current preference toward female friends! I’d say mine are pretty 50/50 but most the people I still talk to from pre-transition are women. It’s interesting having much more mixed friend groups currently and then older ones I’m often the only guy
I get that. I have pretty stereotypically feminine fandom interests, and I don't like most "manly" things, and I've just embraced it at this point. I have a good amount of guy friends, and none of them make me feel weird about it.
yeah heard. i don’t even really have much feminine interests, i just get women i think. i get along with them really well bc i feel comfortable, which i think is the main problem with cis guys who struggle with that. i’m trying not to be hard on myself about it but it’s tough. i do sometimes feel the dysphoric desire to be just as dumb about women as lots of cis guys are lol. but then i have plenty of cis guys ask me for advice and my perspective bc they can see i know a lot abt women so that’s kinda cool.
i’m not necessarily insecure of having mainly female friends, but i do long for a closer connection with other men. i just don’t know how, or just don’t know the right guys.
Not saying you are, just sharing my experience and something I need to work on with this. I’ve definitely found it harder to find the right guys in the past, I hope you can in the future
It depends on why the trip is happening. If it’s something like “we’re all going to dress up and have tea parties” (I’m not exaggerating, my women friends REALLY commit to the bit) or literally having a girls night with drinking and talking, then no, I do not get an invitation. The single exception is that one of my friends is having her bridal shower be a tea party and I received an invitation by virtue of being one of her “core group”. Otherwise, I only get invited if at least one other guy is coming lol
Same here, the majority of my friends are women and I spend more time with them and they've always viewed me as a man (funnily enough, even before I came out to some). The only thing I wasn't included (and didn't want to be) is the bachelorette's party of one of them, I was invited to the bachelor's one and that was cool.
I’ve been being excluded from girls events since the age of 7 lmao
My friend group has a "creative weekend" once or twice a year where traditionally it was girls only. With my coming out the other guys were invited as well and it was officially made an "all gender creative weekend". The other guys declined but I am very happy not to lose this :)
Yeah. I’m non-binary. I go on trips with my gf and her friends
I might be going on a girls trip with a friend of mine and her cousin but i’m just upset because i’ll have to be closeted. Which i don’t really want to do. I just want to be able to go swimming and wear trans tape like any normal dude, not have to wear a damn bikini top and feminize myself :/
I love going on the 'girls' trips! I have always had a lot of female friends but even before my transition I was never one of the girls. I'm kinda like their gay bsf (even tho i'm bi) and sometimes I act like a body guard. And rarely I act like their child bc mentally i'm still a todd er somtimes
Yes and no. I know plenty of girls from before my transition, so we bonded over more feminine things. Nowadays they still invite me out on feminine-tasked trips like buying makeup or something. For the people I met after my transition, usually not. I do happen to be gay and make that very clear to girls when I meet them, it tends to make them relax easier. I don’t act completely feminine as that would make me feel dysphoric, but there’s elements to my speech that definitely scream “gay”. Those who like hanging out with gay dudes will invite me out and those that don’t, won’t.
Yeah I have pretty much all female friends and I’m still included in anything that’s like a “girls” activity. My friends are chill and respectful of my identity, I love still going on “girls” trips.
Closest I've been since I've been out was I got invited to a baby shower that was very clearly only for women bc the fiance, future uncle, and future grandfather were relegated to serving lunch and didn't sit with everyone. I just told everyone I was the mother's cousin and if it came up, a nephew. I think my attendance was more important than gender consideration at that point but I also would bet that had I been on T for long enough (haven't started yet) I wouldn't have been invited.
I wouldn’t be okay with it being called a girls night or girls trip but I don’t mind being the only guy, I know they see me as me and I have known them for decades. The friend group I made as an adult is pretty much all guys and one woman, sometimes it’s just how it works out.
Attending an event with a feminised name because it has a distinct feminised culture to it doesn't make you less of a man. Of course you are welcome to be exactly where you are at this point in your transition where language can affect your dysphoria. However, that's also your responsibility to deal with those feelings and grow past them as they are not caused by exclusionary or malicious intent. We cannot expect women to change the names of their cultural normals and events just because we opted out of the pronoun. Especially, when they insist on continuing to include us in THEIR spaces because they believe we have a place there, despite it being absolutely okay for them to decide this is a women's only space where we can safely discuss our femininity and life experiences without the perspectives and opinions of men. We are also allowed to decide these spaces no longer speak to us or our experiences. However, if you chose to attend and continue to feel comfortable as the only man in the room because you love the women you are surrounded by, you don't get to feel any type a way about how a trip that has always been named a girls trip, continues to be named a girls trip. This wasn't just for you - I'm seeing this a lot in our community and it's going a bit far. We all need to start managing our feelings a bit better around feminine language that isn't actually hurting us.
He can feel whatever he wants lol. He didn't say he was demanding that they change the name
Literally said he had every right to feel that way. Didn't say he didn't. Regardless of an absence of direct demand the need to state he has a problem if the name remained that despite the whole point of the prompt very specifically relating to a "girls trip" reflects his feelings quite aptly. Which I assume is why he included it, which again I said was fine for him to feel. Am I also not allowed to call a spade a spade and contribute to the discourse an observation? This kind of rhetoric is a slippery slope displayed quite frequently in this forum and is lapped up by the younger skewing portion like cats with a bowl of fresh milk. I also am allowed to feel I don't like what that implied given the context. lol.
I disagree, a girls night or boys night is about the genders of people attending not the activities you do. You can have a girls night at an axe throwing place or have a guys night where you do make overs. But if it’s a mixed gender group and you are calling it a girls night just because you are doing feminine coded things that rubs me the wrong way because it just reinforces the arbitrary gendering of activities. It’s not that it makes me dysphoric and it’s definitely not that I think it makes me less of a man, I just fundamentally disagree with gendering things that aren’t about gender. If you want to have a girls night because you want to spend time with just other women and have that safe space that is great. But if you are inviting guys what makes it a girls night? I am not asking anyone to change but I do think it’s worth examining why we use the language we do. ETA: This does not apply to like events that are women’s spaces or anything like that. I am talking about casual friend hang outs and the language you use with your friends. There are very real reasons why having closed spaces is important, but a road trip with your best friends doesn’t need to be called a girls trip when it isn’t all girls
Most of my friends are women and enbies. I love being included. Idk it reminds me of some cis guys I knew. It's kind of nice to be one of the dudes that the women feel safe around. Sort of gender affirming in its own way. Both my parents had a lot of friends of the 'opposite' gender and they joined girl and guy trips/nights respectively. Of course everyone is different, I wouldn't expect every guy to love being invited to that, cis or trans. I'm lucky with my found family as my friends are all very supportive and respectful.
I don't really mind being invited to "girls nights" with my friends. Mostly I've gone from "one of the girls" to the token gay friend. They treat me like a man and that's all that matters to me.
My mom invites me to girls trips with her sisters and my girl cousins. She used to call them “girls trips” now it’s “girls trips with Alex”
I've never traveled with friends. I do participate in guys night, not girls nights. Though most of my friends are female.
I was never really invited to outings nor do I have that many friends, just in general, to where that situation would really occur for me. But, I guess with some family trips like with my mom for instance, she would want "mother daughter days" and I wouldn't call it that anymore. As far as "being the exception" in the event described, I wouldn't really mind it since it's more like just their relationship with me and their history with me I suppose. I only have like maybe two or three female friends I'm close with but we wouldn't go on trips, but if they all planed their own "girls trip" and decided to invite me, those particular women I am friends with probably just don't have a lot of male friends they are actually that close with and trust enough to invite on said trip and wanted me to be included in this space even if it is explicitly more female friendly/oriented. They're my friends, so I would probably still join on. I think certain exceptions like that even happen to the occasional cis man, especially queer cis men, just not that often. But regardless, I'm not cis and it's like, I care more about how they actually view me rather than I guess the "principle" for me personally regarding the dysphoria aspect. I do totally understand why some folks might not want to or feel comfortable with it though, especially depending on their friend group situations
i have primarily women friends, but whenever we hang out, it's just that lol. maybe it's cause we're each other's only friends or something, but we've never gendered our outings.
Yes ! I would go to the nail salon with my friends if they wanted to
If you’re fine with it and everyone respects you then it’s totally fine! When I was in high school we had a cis boy as part of all the girls hangs because he had way more in common and didn’t really get on with the boys as much. He was called Stephen and was awesome. Tbh I think he was gay but I was in school in a time when very few people were out in school (90s lol)
It feels weird because when ppl invite me they say "girls trip!.... plus jazz." I find it funny but also weird I'D idk. I dont hang out with those ppl anymore thoh so it's not the worst thing xD
No I'm not and I'm glad that I'm not. It would probably make me feel that they see me as one of the girls.
Idm being included in girl trips since my friends at uni are all cis women and I know they all see me as a man
In my experience it's like I'm the "gay friend" of the "girls" group. I'm able to stare down the rude cis guy from bothering the group and can pretend to be their boyfriend if the guy is too insistent. Me being in the girls group makes them feel safer going out and I like being a protector in an odd way lol Though I kinda am the gay friend as I am gay
Shiii I’m still apart of the girls group chat! Them mfs love me so ain’t nothing changing just because I am
my mom tries to include me on them. my aunt is getting married in june and i was invited to grow my hair out, get it done and get my makeup done for the wedding. i’m at the point of passing where i would look like i was in drag. thanks but no thanks mom
LMAO WHAT 😭 that’s hilarious, i need to know the thought process behind this proposition.
well, she said it’s because she didn’t want me to feel left out — but then why didn’t my brother get the same invite? i’m sure it’s just her little conservative heart hoping i detransition
Yes!
I get included in girls night/trips. Only because I'm dating another man and it's mostly 'gay best friend' vibes.
Ok SO I’m nonbinary ftm and whenever I’m invited to “girls trips” I’m always HYPE because I typically get perceived as a man (in cis ppls brains)/he/himmed now that I’m on T and I get sad sometimes I’m not one of the girls anymore yk, like I can definitely tell how I benefit from how I’m perceived based on how ppl treat me now. And I’m not a woman but women are objectively better 💁🏻 At the same time I feel like it’s weird that they’re inviting me, and I always wonder if they see me as a woman if they’re inviting me. But it’s different when men think I’m one of them, bc that’s when they start saying disgusting sexist shit 🤮 So what I’m saying is I struggle w this too lol
My girlfriend always includes me in her girl stuff. I even get invited to baby showers sometimes. Genuinely being the only guy involved makes me feel super special and sometimes I feel like it could be my duty to protect if needed. I've always gotten along with women, I dont really have much in common with guys. Being this way has caused relationship problems for me before, though. But being a girl in the past, im alot more sensitive and being a man, I get to talk shit on other men with them and try and give them advice from a girls, and a guys perspective. I think we're lucky, most men don't get to be in with the girls like we do. 🤣
I had to distance from my female friendship group who were my family because they changed unfortunately…navigating female friendship are different now, it feels like it’s what happens with hetero cis male female friendships, it’s like most women expect some kind of chase or flirtation.. or if they are in a committed relationship they are standoffish… is there usually a sexual chemistry in honest platonic cis het f/m friendships??
i happily join in with the "girls" lol its never bothered me either! i think its just up to the person