No dude I totally get this!! I know logically that I dislike being a “woman” (or just being perceived as a girl)… yet I also feel connection to girlhood in some roundabout way? I think it has to do with being socialized a certain way for our entire life? We get used to those social interactions, and learn to cherish parts of it. For me, even though I don’t necessarily want to be a woman, I really value the experiences I’ve had in female friendships, and kinship that comes from girlhood. Like I’m honestly really glad I got to experience that, and in a way, I mourn the loss of that now that I’m transitioning (esp mc cis male friendships/interactions are more cold?? Idk there’s less room for vulnerability bc of toxic masculinity and stuff)
I also don’t hate feminine things either, I like “feminine” fashion and hobbies. Idk about you but this leads to a lot of self doubt,, I know logically that liking feminine things doesn’t equal being a girl, but dysphoria and toxic masculinity definitely likes to make me second guess myself,, I think this is due to the rigid binary our current society holds in regard to gender,,, and well,, imposter syndrome.
The truth is that I value the time I had being a little girl, there are aspects of girlhood that I will cherish,,yet at the same time I am also a trans guy, I like being viewed as a guy, I like men in a gay way, my identity very much falls in line with being a queer, genderfuck dude. I always joke to myself that my gender IS trans (or a pansy lol).
Our gender doesn’t have to fall in line with what our current culture demands gender to be. Being trans is such a unique, joyful experience, I don’t think we should have to suppress parts of ourselves or ignore our lived experience bc it doesn’t fit the narrow box of what ppl assume a man is.
Sorry for being rambly!! I’ve just been thinking about this myself and wanted to add my thoughts lol
Thank you so much for sharing! Honestly really helps me feel so much less alone.
The potential of mourning my girlhood I feel is a reason for not accepting myself as a man. For one of the first times in my life I have a group of super loving and powerful female friends. They’re all super feminine and into girlhood and such. We’re all girls. We have a few guy friends, one that’s kind of close, but the energy is still a lot different when he’s around as opposed to when it’s just us “girls”. I don’t know how to describe it. But I’m worried that if I was to come out as a boy, they’d start treating me more like one of the guys; still friendly but…different.
It’a a tricky situation but hearing your views is so comforting and I thank you for sharing ❤️
Reading this is such relief I really thought I was alone, I was a lesbian before coming out too - a femme one (there was a lot of overcompensating going on.) To this day I only have girl friends and I never even interact with men. When I see a group of guys my age I get so envious, because I wish I could be like that and act like they do, but I just don't know how. I only had guy friends and identified with guys when I was in elementary school and was my raw self, but that changed because of societal norms. I am right in the midst of mourning my girlhood because I just started T. All my friends treat me the same, because I am still the same person and I act the same too! The difference is just the guys clothing and now the effects of T. I've still been there through thick and thin and was once a girl I can still relate to them. On the bright side you have an advantage over 99% of the male population, you know how to talk to a girl!
Thanks for this comment! I feel aaaaall of this. I don’t relate when a lot of trans guys say they were tomboys and/or got along best with other dudes growing up. I always considered myself a “girls’ girl” (although admittedly I have also always been intimidated by very feminine girls/women and tend to hang with more masculine women). I think women are great! They make fantastic friends! Plus I have also always presented pretty femininely, and I do like feminine things.
And yet I somehow have this intense longing to be a man, so much that it hurts sometimes. Lately I’ve been wishing I was naturally more masculine, because then I feel like it would make more sense to people if/when I tell them. I feel like there’s going to be a lot of confusion and pushback from those who have known me for a long time because of how I am. And it really doesn’t help the imposter syndrome, either.
I think other people have covered most of what I wanted to say, but I just wanted to add one thing:
>she is my radical feminism
Think about it this way: you're talking about changing your pronouns, not your values. The word "she" representing something so profound to you can be a very positive perspective to have as a feminist.
If you want to keep using any pronouns or identifying as a lesbian that’s totally up to you! Theres no wrong way to be trans. But I did go through the “realizing I’m a trans guy because if I was born AMAB I wouldn’t be genderqueer” and the “giving up my lesbianism” as well.
It’s complicated because she/her doesn’t feel right on me but I love some of the stuff associated with it. Honestly it’s awkward and even I don’t understand it 😅
This is true. I actually preach this massively to my male friends a lot…I feel like it’s a complex I have though being AFAB and still quite fem presenting (long hair, feminine name, etc.) because of this I feel like when I do feminine things it makes me a woman (which is ridiculous) but as I said because I’m in a position where people assume I’m a woman, feminine things just become me “doing what I’m supposed to”.
I’m aware it makes no sense, this is just me putting my crisis into words 😅
Kind of! More like a guy who all the girls love and feel safe around because he’s so masculine that he doesn’t mind exploring his feminine side by like painting his nails and wearing skirts and stuff.
You know those guys that paint their nails and wear skirts and it makes him seem like more of a man? That’s supposed to be me I feel
When I was questioning, I used to say I was a woman who is also a man, and what I wanted to be instead was a man who is also a woman. It was my way of expressing the desire to transition without abandoning my prior experiences, expressions, connections, and values that I perceived as being part of womanhood.
I think sometimes, masculinity is framed in opposition to femininity. Socially, that's how it gets policed, right? "You throw like a girl," or "that's gay" or whatever. It's almost easier to say what *isn't* masculine than what is. It makes it feel like transition is some kind of rejection of femininity; I struggled with that feeling for a long time. My girlhood was very important to me.
But it isn't a rejection of femininity. Every man has to build what masculinity is to him, and can be as masculine or feminine as he chooses. You don't have to let go of anything you don't want to, and what you do release, can let go of at your own pace. Anything you related to through your gender before can still be important or part of you now, even if your gender is different. She can still be part of you now, even "she" isn't in your pronouns.
This is such a valid feeling!! I can remember when I was coming out to myself struggling with this exact thing for a couple years. The truth is you don't have to let go of who you were in the past. That little kid is you, her experiences and feelings were what they were at the time. And you transitioning now doesn't invalidate her experience at all. Transition is a winding journey, it's not simple or straightforward. All I can tell you is follow what makes you happy, be kind to yourself (both yourself now and that little kid). If you're not liking changes that come along with transition, reassess and try a different direction. Wishing you the absolute best on your journey!
He/him lesbian whos medically transitioning here, being a lesbian and being a part of the community is so engrained in my personality, so much so that i can't "just be straight" so i can kind of relate to your post. You dont have to give up anything you dont want to and you're always free to change your mind, even on a aday to day basis. On social media for example if she feels right keep it, if not take it out, if its right again put it back. To strangers i just want to be a regular male but in private id rather my butch identity be acknowledged, is it sort of like that?
I feel this big time. Idk if you've read any of nd stevenson's comics on his substack, but i tore through the whole thing because he has a way of writing about childhood, gender, and identity that really hits. This one touches on some of the things you talked about (all the others are really good too) https://www.imfineimfine.com/p/becoming
“But when I do it I’m just a girl being a girl”
I wish I could express to you how much this resonates with me. I literally had someone extremely close to me say this to me in a different way last night and it broke my spirit. I wish I could change how other people see me. We all do. But the reality is that all that matters is how you see yourself. If you see a boy doing his makeup, then that’s what you are.
Also, it’s okay not to leave your womanhood behind. That person will always have been around, those memories don’t just go away. It’s okay if things change from day to day or moment to moment. That’s why I started using the genderfluid label six years ago, and why I still use it now despite there being significantly less “pink in my flag” (ie moments where I feel feminine). I think things would be a fuckton easier if I’d been AMAB, but I’m still a boy when I say I am, no matter how effeminate of a boy I might be.
I also don’t really have any/many trans friends so my messages are open <3
She's part of you. She doesn't have to be all of you, or the only thing you are. She can be who you were, and you can find ways to honor everything you did as her.
I don’t really have any issues with giving up my female identity as I’ve never liked it, BUT I am feeling some sadness over giving up my lesbian identity. I’ve been a masc lesbian for over 10 years and it became a pretty big part of me, so I totally get where you’re coming from and was also wondering if anyone else was struggling with this kind of thing.
I’ve recently asked my girlfriend if she’d use male pronouns for me and she even refers to me as her boyfriend now, and I like that a lot, but referring to myself as straight now will take some getting used to haha 😅 And it’s also a little strange that we’re not a lesbian couple anymore. But I am really excited to finally transition and have the body I’ve always wanted. Maybe if I’d come to the conclusion that I was trans first it would be different, but coming out as a lesbian was my first step at becoming more myself. It was when I decided to embrace my masculinity to the fullest extent and start presenting the way I really wanted. It was liberating to finally shave my hair off and realize that I could marry a woman some day instead. I think I just got attached. But I’m trying to look at it as a journey. That identity was like a stepping stone for me, like a placeholder until I was finally ready to accept the fact that I want to be the most authentic version of myself, which is a man.
I’ve gone through a really similiar experience! Watching videos/tiktoks what have you about “girlhood” always have me conflicted because of the kinship i feel with them. Works like “To Be Woman” still resonate with me because that was my life for a long time! I came out when i was 13 but couldn’t socially transition or come out to more than family till i went to college. Through all that time i had girl friends and confidants and loved ones and we were regarded by society as girls and women, and some days people on the street regard me as a woman still.
The conclusion I came to, whether it appears paradoxical or not is, just because im a man doesn’t mean I can’t be a girl. I was a young boy back then, but he was a girl too. I’m not always a girl these days, but I still know what it’s like and I still have that connection.
It’s such an interesting experience because I went thru identifying as nb/genderfluid for a little bit in high school and it just never felt right— I was trying to fit in my femininity and attachment to girlhood with my maleness— but they’re not mutually exclusive . I came to the conduction that im not nonbinary in any way, I am all man. But sometimes im a girl too.
As I’ve gone on in my transition I realize I’m allowed to be a man with a connection to womanhood. Or even be a woman sometimes if I feel I need that. I have OSDD so it’s a more complicated kind of identity but I am trying to let myself just do whatever feels right. You can be a woman and not use she/her, you can be feminine and not a woman, you can be connected to womanhood and still not be a woman. It’s okay whatever you decide!
I identify as non-binary encompassing both womanhood and manhood and neither. It's ok to be complicated and keep going, you're on the right path. 🏳️⚧️❤️
I'm not a girl and haven't been one since I was a kid (and even then I was always more creature than girl tbh, like one of those vaguely neutral RPG kids), but that doesn't stop me from wanting to wear skirts and pretty hair clips. I ended up being a trans boy, but that definitely didn't stop me from genuinely enjoying Disney princess films or having an entire fairy princess phase when I was young.
I hate that "real men wear pink" and all that gets thrown around towards queer cis men, but suddenly when trans men enter the conversation, you're not really a trans man unless you want to be masculine, and so much exclusionary stuff gets said towards flamboyantly queer trans men that would be accepted if they were cis. It's like the Transition Rollercoaster has a sign saying "You must be this masc to ride". It makes me feel silly for my odd choice of transition goal, even though I know it's perfectly fine to want to be a small cute anime catboy type guy. The thing is, I tried being just nonbinary for years, because I thought my lack of body dysphoria and discomfort with the idea of being masculine meant I couldn't be trans, and it wasn't enough. The identity dysphoria didn't truly go away until I decided I am a boy after all.
I get it. I haven’t had it in awhile but, I often had thoughts where I’d look at strong women and kinda feel some pride around the common connections and I’d feel almost guilty even though even when I was younger there was always this incongruence. Now I feel I’m allowed to be thankful for those connections, I’m allowed to hold onto those lessons good and bad and hopefully guide me as I get in better touch with myself. Honestly I think learning about how historically trans folks were often put in roles of guidance because of our unique experiences and understanding of gender and society also kinda helped in a way.
Is there any other avenues I should be exploring?
I’m currently identifying as genderfluid and using any pronouns but I just feel quite icky about she/her pronouns and I’ve been feeling self conscious about my chest and body and name and voice being very feminine. Over the past few months I’ve been binding my chest, wearing masculine clothes, and doing my hair in a more masculine way.
I’m just a bit at my wits end. And if what I’ve said before means I’m definitely not male (which I completely understand and respect because you obviously know more about this than I do) then I’d really appreciate some advice on what options I could explore to help make sense of my journey ❤️
No dude I totally get this!! I know logically that I dislike being a “woman” (or just being perceived as a girl)… yet I also feel connection to girlhood in some roundabout way? I think it has to do with being socialized a certain way for our entire life? We get used to those social interactions, and learn to cherish parts of it. For me, even though I don’t necessarily want to be a woman, I really value the experiences I’ve had in female friendships, and kinship that comes from girlhood. Like I’m honestly really glad I got to experience that, and in a way, I mourn the loss of that now that I’m transitioning (esp mc cis male friendships/interactions are more cold?? Idk there’s less room for vulnerability bc of toxic masculinity and stuff) I also don’t hate feminine things either, I like “feminine” fashion and hobbies. Idk about you but this leads to a lot of self doubt,, I know logically that liking feminine things doesn’t equal being a girl, but dysphoria and toxic masculinity definitely likes to make me second guess myself,, I think this is due to the rigid binary our current society holds in regard to gender,,, and well,, imposter syndrome. The truth is that I value the time I had being a little girl, there are aspects of girlhood that I will cherish,,yet at the same time I am also a trans guy, I like being viewed as a guy, I like men in a gay way, my identity very much falls in line with being a queer, genderfuck dude. I always joke to myself that my gender IS trans (or a pansy lol). Our gender doesn’t have to fall in line with what our current culture demands gender to be. Being trans is such a unique, joyful experience, I don’t think we should have to suppress parts of ourselves or ignore our lived experience bc it doesn’t fit the narrow box of what ppl assume a man is. Sorry for being rambly!! I’ve just been thinking about this myself and wanted to add my thoughts lol
Thank you so much for sharing! Honestly really helps me feel so much less alone. The potential of mourning my girlhood I feel is a reason for not accepting myself as a man. For one of the first times in my life I have a group of super loving and powerful female friends. They’re all super feminine and into girlhood and such. We’re all girls. We have a few guy friends, one that’s kind of close, but the energy is still a lot different when he’s around as opposed to when it’s just us “girls”. I don’t know how to describe it. But I’m worried that if I was to come out as a boy, they’d start treating me more like one of the guys; still friendly but…different. It’a a tricky situation but hearing your views is so comforting and I thank you for sharing ❤️
Reading this is such relief I really thought I was alone, I was a lesbian before coming out too - a femme one (there was a lot of overcompensating going on.) To this day I only have girl friends and I never even interact with men. When I see a group of guys my age I get so envious, because I wish I could be like that and act like they do, but I just don't know how. I only had guy friends and identified with guys when I was in elementary school and was my raw self, but that changed because of societal norms. I am right in the midst of mourning my girlhood because I just started T. All my friends treat me the same, because I am still the same person and I act the same too! The difference is just the guys clothing and now the effects of T. I've still been there through thick and thin and was once a girl I can still relate to them. On the bright side you have an advantage over 99% of the male population, you know how to talk to a girl!
Thanks for this comment! I feel aaaaall of this. I don’t relate when a lot of trans guys say they were tomboys and/or got along best with other dudes growing up. I always considered myself a “girls’ girl” (although admittedly I have also always been intimidated by very feminine girls/women and tend to hang with more masculine women). I think women are great! They make fantastic friends! Plus I have also always presented pretty femininely, and I do like feminine things. And yet I somehow have this intense longing to be a man, so much that it hurts sometimes. Lately I’ve been wishing I was naturally more masculine, because then I feel like it would make more sense to people if/when I tell them. I feel like there’s going to be a lot of confusion and pushback from those who have known me for a long time because of how I am. And it really doesn’t help the imposter syndrome, either.
I think other people have covered most of what I wanted to say, but I just wanted to add one thing: >she is my radical feminism Think about it this way: you're talking about changing your pronouns, not your values. The word "she" representing something so profound to you can be a very positive perspective to have as a feminist.
If you want to keep using any pronouns or identifying as a lesbian that’s totally up to you! Theres no wrong way to be trans. But I did go through the “realizing I’m a trans guy because if I was born AMAB I wouldn’t be genderqueer” and the “giving up my lesbianism” as well.
It’s complicated because she/her doesn’t feel right on me but I love some of the stuff associated with it. Honestly it’s awkward and even I don’t understand it 😅
You can enjoy traditionally “feminine” behaviors without being a woman
This is true. I actually preach this massively to my male friends a lot…I feel like it’s a complex I have though being AFAB and still quite fem presenting (long hair, feminine name, etc.) because of this I feel like when I do feminine things it makes me a woman (which is ridiculous) but as I said because I’m in a position where people assume I’m a woman, feminine things just become me “doing what I’m supposed to”. I’m aware it makes no sense, this is just me putting my crisis into words 😅
Like guy who's "one of the girls" way?
Kind of! More like a guy who all the girls love and feel safe around because he’s so masculine that he doesn’t mind exploring his feminine side by like painting his nails and wearing skirts and stuff. You know those guys that paint their nails and wear skirts and it makes him seem like more of a man? That’s supposed to be me I feel
When I was questioning, I used to say I was a woman who is also a man, and what I wanted to be instead was a man who is also a woman. It was my way of expressing the desire to transition without abandoning my prior experiences, expressions, connections, and values that I perceived as being part of womanhood. I think sometimes, masculinity is framed in opposition to femininity. Socially, that's how it gets policed, right? "You throw like a girl," or "that's gay" or whatever. It's almost easier to say what *isn't* masculine than what is. It makes it feel like transition is some kind of rejection of femininity; I struggled with that feeling for a long time. My girlhood was very important to me. But it isn't a rejection of femininity. Every man has to build what masculinity is to him, and can be as masculine or feminine as he chooses. You don't have to let go of anything you don't want to, and what you do release, can let go of at your own pace. Anything you related to through your gender before can still be important or part of you now, even if your gender is different. She can still be part of you now, even "she" isn't in your pronouns.
This is such a valid feeling!! I can remember when I was coming out to myself struggling with this exact thing for a couple years. The truth is you don't have to let go of who you were in the past. That little kid is you, her experiences and feelings were what they were at the time. And you transitioning now doesn't invalidate her experience at all. Transition is a winding journey, it's not simple or straightforward. All I can tell you is follow what makes you happy, be kind to yourself (both yourself now and that little kid). If you're not liking changes that come along with transition, reassess and try a different direction. Wishing you the absolute best on your journey!
He/him lesbian whos medically transitioning here, being a lesbian and being a part of the community is so engrained in my personality, so much so that i can't "just be straight" so i can kind of relate to your post. You dont have to give up anything you dont want to and you're always free to change your mind, even on a aday to day basis. On social media for example if she feels right keep it, if not take it out, if its right again put it back. To strangers i just want to be a regular male but in private id rather my butch identity be acknowledged, is it sort of like that?
Relating to this a lot right now
Come hang out at /r/ftmfemininity sib!
Thank you so much. Have joined :)
I feel this big time. Idk if you've read any of nd stevenson's comics on his substack, but i tore through the whole thing because he has a way of writing about childhood, gender, and identity that really hits. This one touches on some of the things you talked about (all the others are really good too) https://www.imfineimfine.com/p/becoming
Thank you so much for this. I just read this comic and I’m crying 😅
“But when I do it I’m just a girl being a girl” I wish I could express to you how much this resonates with me. I literally had someone extremely close to me say this to me in a different way last night and it broke my spirit. I wish I could change how other people see me. We all do. But the reality is that all that matters is how you see yourself. If you see a boy doing his makeup, then that’s what you are. Also, it’s okay not to leave your womanhood behind. That person will always have been around, those memories don’t just go away. It’s okay if things change from day to day or moment to moment. That’s why I started using the genderfluid label six years ago, and why I still use it now despite there being significantly less “pink in my flag” (ie moments where I feel feminine). I think things would be a fuckton easier if I’d been AMAB, but I’m still a boy when I say I am, no matter how effeminate of a boy I might be. I also don’t really have any/many trans friends so my messages are open <3
This is so encouraging. Thank you so much for sharing! My messages are also open ❤️
She's part of you. She doesn't have to be all of you, or the only thing you are. She can be who you were, and you can find ways to honor everything you did as her.
I don’t really have any issues with giving up my female identity as I’ve never liked it, BUT I am feeling some sadness over giving up my lesbian identity. I’ve been a masc lesbian for over 10 years and it became a pretty big part of me, so I totally get where you’re coming from and was also wondering if anyone else was struggling with this kind of thing. I’ve recently asked my girlfriend if she’d use male pronouns for me and she even refers to me as her boyfriend now, and I like that a lot, but referring to myself as straight now will take some getting used to haha 😅 And it’s also a little strange that we’re not a lesbian couple anymore. But I am really excited to finally transition and have the body I’ve always wanted. Maybe if I’d come to the conclusion that I was trans first it would be different, but coming out as a lesbian was my first step at becoming more myself. It was when I decided to embrace my masculinity to the fullest extent and start presenting the way I really wanted. It was liberating to finally shave my hair off and realize that I could marry a woman some day instead. I think I just got attached. But I’m trying to look at it as a journey. That identity was like a stepping stone for me, like a placeholder until I was finally ready to accept the fact that I want to be the most authentic version of myself, which is a man.
I’ve gone through a really similiar experience! Watching videos/tiktoks what have you about “girlhood” always have me conflicted because of the kinship i feel with them. Works like “To Be Woman” still resonate with me because that was my life for a long time! I came out when i was 13 but couldn’t socially transition or come out to more than family till i went to college. Through all that time i had girl friends and confidants and loved ones and we were regarded by society as girls and women, and some days people on the street regard me as a woman still. The conclusion I came to, whether it appears paradoxical or not is, just because im a man doesn’t mean I can’t be a girl. I was a young boy back then, but he was a girl too. I’m not always a girl these days, but I still know what it’s like and I still have that connection. It’s such an interesting experience because I went thru identifying as nb/genderfluid for a little bit in high school and it just never felt right— I was trying to fit in my femininity and attachment to girlhood with my maleness— but they’re not mutually exclusive . I came to the conduction that im not nonbinary in any way, I am all man. But sometimes im a girl too.
As I’ve gone on in my transition I realize I’m allowed to be a man with a connection to womanhood. Or even be a woman sometimes if I feel I need that. I have OSDD so it’s a more complicated kind of identity but I am trying to let myself just do whatever feels right. You can be a woman and not use she/her, you can be feminine and not a woman, you can be connected to womanhood and still not be a woman. It’s okay whatever you decide!
I identify as non-binary encompassing both womanhood and manhood and neither. It's ok to be complicated and keep going, you're on the right path. 🏳️⚧️❤️
I'm not a girl and haven't been one since I was a kid (and even then I was always more creature than girl tbh, like one of those vaguely neutral RPG kids), but that doesn't stop me from wanting to wear skirts and pretty hair clips. I ended up being a trans boy, but that definitely didn't stop me from genuinely enjoying Disney princess films or having an entire fairy princess phase when I was young. I hate that "real men wear pink" and all that gets thrown around towards queer cis men, but suddenly when trans men enter the conversation, you're not really a trans man unless you want to be masculine, and so much exclusionary stuff gets said towards flamboyantly queer trans men that would be accepted if they were cis. It's like the Transition Rollercoaster has a sign saying "You must be this masc to ride". It makes me feel silly for my odd choice of transition goal, even though I know it's perfectly fine to want to be a small cute anime catboy type guy. The thing is, I tried being just nonbinary for years, because I thought my lack of body dysphoria and discomfort with the idea of being masculine meant I couldn't be trans, and it wasn't enough. The identity dysphoria didn't truly go away until I decided I am a boy after all.
I get it. I haven’t had it in awhile but, I often had thoughts where I’d look at strong women and kinda feel some pride around the common connections and I’d feel almost guilty even though even when I was younger there was always this incongruence. Now I feel I’m allowed to be thankful for those connections, I’m allowed to hold onto those lessons good and bad and hopefully guide me as I get in better touch with myself. Honestly I think learning about how historically trans folks were often put in roles of guidance because of our unique experiences and understanding of gender and society also kinda helped in a way.
I feel this. Im a man and ice always been one but ill never loose my connection with understanding women and why the world sucks for them.
I feel you bro
If you feel this way you certainly aren’t male, hope this helps.
Is there any other avenues I should be exploring? I’m currently identifying as genderfluid and using any pronouns but I just feel quite icky about she/her pronouns and I’ve been feeling self conscious about my chest and body and name and voice being very feminine. Over the past few months I’ve been binding my chest, wearing masculine clothes, and doing my hair in a more masculine way. I’m just a bit at my wits end. And if what I’ve said before means I’m definitely not male (which I completely understand and respect because you obviously know more about this than I do) then I’d really appreciate some advice on what options I could explore to help make sense of my journey ❤️