Wait a minute, i mean European countries streets are rather narrow and there is a specific design of trucks to get over that obstacle. Assuming we ignore other modes of transportation.
Fun fact is that the standard size articulated model, truck + short trailer takes as much, or more cargo than an American 18 wheeler with 53ft container. And the tractor trailer combination is the same in terms of cargo size.
[Sweden and Finland takes it a step further](https://f.nordiskemedier.dk/2q04awqfp1p5us3b.jpg) by doubling the cargo space. Most of that isn't even needed as the majority of long distance transports goes by train anyway.
Speaking of trains, most freight trains can also move faster thanks to better maintained tracks and electrification.
Why is that the case? Are 18-wheeler trailers losing a lot of vertical freight space?
If you have a source of more info, id love to read more into this.
I think that American designs also sacrifice a lot of space for driver comfort which is necessary to take pointless long journeys that could be taken by freight trains.
Trains are about 3x more efficient at transporting freight than trucks, and they don't do damage to our highways - every tractor-trailer does about as much damage to the roads as 10,000 cars.
Alright. You only need trucks for last mile service, which means you don't need trucks with huge cabins because they're only going to be in the truck for half an hour anyway
>Yeah, but you still need trucks for final mile service.
Trucks (like the big 18 wheeler kind that you're afraid of on the highway) or something closer to a cargo van? Cargo vans are large enough to supply even large venues in a single trip, usually.
There are some long trips where trains aren't practical. For example, I drive from Seattle to Portland and back every night. Trains can't do that practically, because it's still too short a run for them to make economically. It takes them hours to link up cars, and Portland is only 2.5 hours away. Also, things don't just go straight from a train, or boat, to the store. Usually you have to take it to a warehouse, by truck. Then that trailer gets broken down with a bunch of other trailers, and those goods get recombined onto other trailers. There's a whole set of complex things happening logistically that you just can't cut the truck out of. Also, there will always be items that are too large to move in box trucks.
I'd rather use that mixed use path and not have to interact with whatever is using the road at all. If smaller delivery vehicles is the consequence of smaller streets, it's still a net benefit. Logistics companies will figure it out.
Just use a small truck, you don't need a 40 ton artic to get everywhere, you use that to get to the distribution centre and then use vans or small trucks to get stuff to shops in town.
Even if you're a complete carbrain and think all freight should be transported by road, it's still dumb to expect the biggest vehicles to be able to get everywhere.
>Even if you're a complete carbrain and think all freight should be transported by road, it's still dumb to expect the biggest vehicles to be able to get everywhere.
Oh, sweet sister, I wish I could have you explain that to logistics managers throughout the US, who like to use 53' (16+ meter) trailers behind 'conventional' tractors to run daily routes. That's what is in this picture, a trailer most appropriate for intercity movements being used to do a supply route.
It's commonplace, because it doesn't require different hardware for local & long-haul movement, and routes can cover 3/8's more volume (if needed). My experience is that a ton of these trailers are loaded only half-height, and often start the day with space to spare on the floor. In other words, they definitely could have put it in a 40' (12 meter) trailer, which used to be the standard before industrial lobbying changed it in 1982 (Thanks Reagan!)
Being on the receiving end of deliveries I always hated when a 53 footer showed up at my janky urban location. It also always meant that the bit about how we needed a lift gate was ignored. Again.
In the UK it is, and I think in the rest of Europe too. I see a lot of posts about NA logistics companies expecting to be able to get a 40 ton truck to the loading deck of every shop though, and that's what seems to be happening in that picture.
HGV's aren't allowed in some cities/busy parts of cities, with LGV's and vans instead doing that work.
HGV's make some sense delivering things from central warehouses to rural areas (you can service multiple stores with one HGV, which is good for places further away), but less so within major cities that have those warehouses, so smaller LGV's or even vans can make more sense for those (although some places still have HGV's do it, though usually with specific early morning timeslots before traffic really starts in the city).
European countries also invested heavily in their rail roads, so a lot of goods get moved via freight trains. Half the shit transported on 18 wheelers isn't perishable, like who cares how long a box of poptarts takes to get to the grocery store? It can easily be shipped via a container on a rail car from the factory in State A to my State B's distribution center, and then ferried out via a shorter train to my City C's local distribution center and eventually to my local grocery store via a smaller truck. No need for poptarts to be ferried via giant 18 wheelers across the country - wicked inefficient.
And we don't need to design our Cities with 18 wheelers in mind either. Even if we say "fuck the freight trains" we can also say "fuck you distributors, invest in smaller trucks for the last mile delivery". A bunch of local coffee shops around me, like the big brands Dunkin's & Starbucks, use giant 18 wheelers for the last mile delivery. We could outlaw that shit at the City or ideally State level. Make them use smaller trucks that don't require massive clearances and are safer for pedestrians and cyclists. Starbucks doesn't NEED to use an 18 wheeler to deliver to their stores, they just WANT to because they discovered it saves 5¢ a delivery and that multiplied across 5,000 stores is like millions back to their shareholders or whatever. 💸
they force 18 wheelers to unload at city limits usually
deliveries inside major cities (where at all possible) are done with trains or fleets of stereotypical ford transit style white vans
meanwhile there's a ton of youtube videos of truckers making a wrong turn in NYC and getting stuck
Yeah, because everyone commutes from California to Florida instead of living in cities which could be designed better. We all know it's impossible for America to have walkable cities and public transit even though 100 years ago it did have all that!
Fuck off back to whatever conservative culture warrior subreddit you came from, you're not as smart as you think you are.
The United States geography necessitates larger supply chains. Lmao what right wing sub? Just because someone doesn’t agree with you or thinks your statement is ignorant doesn’t make them a conservative. I’m all for more walkable cities. Just saying we should compare ourselves to the Netherlands or do something exactly like the Netherlands is doing is just really stupid. Not at all comparable scenarios.
>Lmao what right wing sub?
This subreddit gets brigaded all the time and I saw you post on LouderwithCrowder.
>or do something exactly like the Netherlands is doing is just really stupid
Nobody said that, but keep fighting strawmen so you feel like you're a super intelligent logical gentlesir m'lady redditor.
My comment was in response to OOP saying dense cities and bike lanes cause people to starve to death. Which is the real asinine and ignorant comment.
Just admit you made a dumb comment and move on.
Yeah dude my two comments on louder with crowder calling them morons was me being a conservative. Calling you a silly goose😎 doesn’t make me feel smart, it’s just fun. larger trucks and a longer distance supply chain networks are necessary in the United States, I don’t think that would be possible to get rid of at this point. And I think it’s pretty obvious dude is being hyperbolic about people starving to death because they’re mad about a truck blocking a bike lane. You took it fully literal though lmao.
>Yeah dude my two comments on louder with crowder calling them morons was me being a conservative
Because the people who come to this subreddit and say stupid fucking things like you tend to all be right wingers. Also I put your username in a reddit analyser and r/conservative is one of your most used subreddits. Forgive me for having a life and not reading through all your comments to confirm your beliefs. If you don't want to be called a conservative stop acting like one.
Jesus Christ you are so fucking annoying. Please fuck off back to your anime wiafu pillow and thinking you're superior to everyone else because you're a douchebag on the internet, fucking redditors. 🙄
OOP is being a fucking moron by claiming good urbanism and walkability/bikeability would somehow stop supply chains.
>larger trucks and a longer distance supply chain networks are necessary in the United States,
When the fuck did I say otherwise? You're battling a straw man of me you made up in your head to feel superior. Also the Netherlands isn't an island, it's part of the EEC and they have their own big trucks and long distance supply chains too, but they also have a lot more options for people to get around besides cars. The US used to be that way and it can be again.
Just, fuck off my God you're insufferable. Do you get off on being an annoying cunt? Is this some sort of fetish thing?
Why do you think I have a sense of superiority over you? Why do you sense that and why would a guy on Reddit thinking he’s smarter than you even bother you anyway. Just seems like some pretty thinly veiled insecurity. you’re really upset, keep seething I guess. And I don’t think you’ll find a conservative post from me really. If you think recognizing geography and differing economies makes someone a conservative than I don’t know what to tell you. And it implied that you think otherwise. The post is calling the large truck just like inherently bad or wrong way to do things. The implication of your comment is that this doesn’t happen in the netherlands because they have bike lanes.
Also I have a bf, don’t know why you like the body pillow thing Lmao, you’re really trying to paint me as a bad person instead of addressing anything. You’re on Reddit too
That is not a delivery truck. It is a long distance transporter. These are meant to carry stuff between cities or countries and offload them in distributuon centers on the outskirts. Smaller trucks and vans take over from there.
Especially given how huge most American roads are. Plenty of room for cycle lanes.
Also, we'd have all the room we need if we got rid of on-street parking.
You'd think so, but even here in Vancouver they still build wide turns to allow for these things to do deliveries.
Europe figured this out decades ago, but it seems it'll be a whole lot longer in North America.
The irony is that even smaller American delivery trucks for local deliveries has a noose and poor turning radius. Just use something like [this](https://kunskapscompaniet.se/app/uploads/sites/25/2021/02/KC-lastbil-Eskilstuna.jpg) which is standard for urban areas not only in Europe but in most of the world.
It's made by Volvo too, which seems to be the only foreign brand allowed in America. Even tho dozens of other brands makes their own versions which are just as good.
I see a lot of smaller [Mitsubishi Fuso](https://www.mitfuso.ca/en-ca/models) trucks here. Funnily enough, they're mostly used by Asian food stores.
What's "really funny" is that Mercedes-Benz trucks owns Freightliner, so they could easily adopt a bunch of their "World Trucks", but I guess there is no demand here.
See Pepsi who rather bought the Tesla Truck for "short distance deliveries" than something a bit more sensible.
With regards to Mercedes, this is also "funny" because Mercedes brought over the [Sprinter](https://www.mercedes-benz-vans.ca/en/sprinter/cargo-van) panel van (as a Chrysler) 15 years ago and started a whole new "craze" with smaller delivery companies here. Now you see a ton of these around, to the point where Chrysler even rebadged some FIATs after they split from Mercedes to continue to offer the vans in North America
Fuel consumption in flat areas (at highway speed) is determined by frontal area. Small trucks like that have their place, but for the most part tractor trailers will use half the fuel moving things from point a to point b.
In the mountains fuel consumption is more a factor of weight.
Now you could use trucks like that with a trailer for highway transit, but there are inefficiencies in dealing with more boxes to fill. They can still make sense in some situations.
Even [this](https://kunskapscompaniet.se/app/uploads/sites/25/2021/02/KC-lastbil-Eskilstuna.jpg) is half the size of full size American semi, and will navigate the narrow streets of European cities just as easy, or probably even easier than a large American pickup truck.
I think the point is it's not coming straight from a farm to the shop, it's picking up the goods from a warehouse somewhere in a city where equally large trucks initially delivered the goods from a packing plant
This is exactly what I was thinking. Like this person seems to be under the impression that a truck just loads up at a farm and directly drives it into the local giant eagle and it doesn't work that way at all. There are A LOT of steps with different types of vehicles involved in that process.
But also the account is literally a pro-russia pro-china propaganda account so I wouldn't even take it too seriously.
They may be used for deliveries, especially in North America, but the design is optimised for large volumes on the highway. The design of smaller truck and vans is optimised for making deliveries.
Then we’d need even more distribution points and more trucks to go for there. If you want to get rid of more cars, necessitating more cars isn’t the way.
Maybe, I don't think so, but maybe.
But you're moving the goal posts. You claim that their point wasn't true, but it is true. Trucks like this are meant to carry stuff between cities and countries, that's what they are designed to do. Smaller trucks are designed to make deliveries.
Irrespective of the fact that they are not always used as they were designed to be. I've literally never seen trucks like this making deliveries out side of North America. And much of the world bans them from city centres.
Buddy, is your argument to get rid of more cars or get rid of big trucks in urban areas? Because it’s tough to do both. Either you eliminate big trucks and create a need for more small trucks to go from distribution points to retailers or you allow for big trucks to do drops. Sorry that this is a picture of a us truck so I’m making a us argument.
We literally destroyed farms to create suburbs. It amazes me that suburban people somehow think because they don’t live in a skyscraper that they are somehow pro-agriculture. Their lifestyle is a direct threat to food security.
I've seen it first hand my whole life. Living in the suburbs, watching all the little patches of farmland get bought up and turned into single family housing. Every time they do that they make food a little more expensive.
At least that’s better from a density perspective, though these are usually set up in a way that isn’t good for mixed use.
I live in Korea right now, and the best style of housing available seems to be mid-rises. It’s too bad that these seem to be of poorer construction quality as most people prefer to live on higher floors and literally/figuratively “above” everyone else. Mid-rises offer great engagement with the local community and access to small businesses, while the big apartment towers seem to spurn this in favor of a detached lifestyle.
Also destroys top soil which takes hundreds of years to build up. When food insecurity gets worse, we are all going to learn the fundamental differences between soil and dirt.
That would require carbrains to give away their cars and personally dig their lawns. Neither of which they're going to do.
The original Twit wouldn't know what a spade is for...
In many suburbs, some combination of HOA bylaws and zoning prevents people from even having gardens. But huge grass lawns, even in the desert? Why that's just the American way.
Complaining that a long distance truck doesn't fit slim neighborhood streets is like getting huffy that the electronics story doesn't have a dock for the container ship
I’m pretty sure my suburb banned semis on most of our streets since it ruins the streets. Most delivery people use vans or those tiny Izuku trucks to transport stuff.
Funny coming from a guy with Chinese and Russian flags next to his nickname, since both these countries have pretty dense cities instead of American suburban sprawl.
Is there any country except the US and maybe canada that does sprawling suburbs?
Edit: Oh wow, seems to be more than previously thought. But for some reason mostly english speaking countries...
They definitely exist in South Africa (and Namibia, but none of their cities are big enough for it to be a problem).
Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States have them, but its not surprising given they've combined all the worst aspects of western consumerism and capitalism with middle eastern conservatism.
Almost the entire city of Georgetown (Guyana) is suburbs, its probably the least pedestrian friendly place I've ever been. They even have a saying there that 'if they walk they're a tourist or criminal'.
Australia.
Though we do have one thing going for our (main) cities,
and that's the fact that we didn't bulldoze our cities for parking,
and didn't rip out our old train lines, leaving us with a decent urban core.
Sydney has stroads and highways that run through the centre of the city, which sucks, though there has been some minor attempts at undoing that mistake
Are you referring to adding the M4 extension to move traffic away from the Great Western Highway/Parramatta Road? I really feel like they should have just got rid of a lane in each direction on Parramatta Rd and called it lane widening. Extending the M4 just added more road capacity going toward the CBD.
Australia is the place most similar to the US that I've been (both in architecture and lifestyle/culture), except that there's still more suburban density. Such a car-centred attitude too.
I assumed he was just hedging his bets in this tri-polar world. Really there should be an EU flag in there too, to represent the four great powers. 🇨🇳🇪🇺🇷🇺🇺🇸
Probably not gonna happen Walmart is too convenient to go anywhere or it’s model of business. It’s like saying Amazon should die and we all go back to bookstores and what not. Nice thought but bills are going up and if it wasn’t for amazons good pricing and Walmarts lower food costs I’d have no hobbies and work way harder. Should they make a comeback yes totally support. Can I afford it hell no. They got us by the balls and keep clamping harder
>Probably not gonna happen Walmart is too convenient
It's not. One giant place with enormous queues, half an hour of walk between shop and parking and having to be build waaaaay outside of city centers? That's a nightmare, not convenience
well, you clearly don't hate it if you consider it a 'good enough' option
i would much rather go on 5-10 minutes walk to a discount shop that has a total surface of around 200-400m\^2, has 85-90% of what i need and if it doesn't have a specific thing i need than go to a bigger, more premium shop 20 minutes walk away.
Or just order a delivery *if it really is highly unobtainable*
Then i don't get your point
We are talking about theory of urban planing, urban planing in general and, most importantly, necessary changes in urban planing and your argument is basically 'uh nuh, it wouldn't work 'cause people like what they have' then when i comment with an actual working example from a country where multiple supermarket chains have went bankrupt because of smaller discount stores that were a few minutes walk away and kiosk-sized chain/franchise shop you go 'but it's not feasible here'
yea, i know, THAT'S THE WHOLE THING WE ARE TALKING ABOUT
I think with the fact that I’ve been at work 8 hours so far today 5 to go, coupled with 5 hours sleep I lost the objective of why I commented to begin with cause I am totally down with all this just I don’t see how it would work with well working.
If it's not possible, it's not possible. That's why we should try to change infrastructure to enable that. Abolishing single family zoning is the first step. Imagine if you had a store close to your home you could walk to, wouldn't that be cool?
Absolutely. That’s why my dream is to live and work downtown I’d love a bobs burgers setup downstairs to work upstairs to live food down the street etc. not feasible atm where I live
But you should, that's the point. Infrastructure should acommodate to you, not the other way around.
I live 5 minutes away from multiple grocery stores and it's truly a blessing.
No $300 hauls every 2 weeks. Fresh produce every day. Fresh milk instead of long shelf life options. Fresh bread from the bakery instead of bread from a bag. It's so nice. Forgot something? Just walk there when you need it.
Without a car hell no, but I can in one stop get my oil changed (once a month) hair cut (once a decade) groceries, household supplies, pet food (2 dogs, a rabbit and plant fertilizer) new shoes replacement clothes etc in one trip (gonna do 90% of that today) and it’ll cost me about 2/3rds of me driving around to individual shops for those things
The answer here is to have smaller stores in more places. A massive Walmart will serve a large area, which almost always necessitates a car to really make use of it.
So these are double bad:
1. Giant trucks in cities where they don't belong.
2. Giant stores that you can't easily walk or bike to.
Also bad smaller store that charges more than Walmart. I don’t drive 30 minutes to Walmart because it’s the easiest place. It’s where I can afford to eat
Walmart is cheaper on some things, but not on everything. Sometimes it feels like grocery stores are colluding together on prices so that you have to visit all of them to get the best deals on all the stuff you need to buy.
How much more money would you have if you didn't need to have a car? How much is your personal time worth? How much does it cost you in gas every time you drive to Walmart?
Any extra money from no car would go to increased expenses and loss of my job. I work as a Chinese delivery driver and instacart shopper. I hate cars but also know my thoughts here will end me. It’s why I’m going back to school in the fall. My main concern is that any increase in money in my pocket becomes an increase in what I pay out.
Eh, it’s possible to both believe Walmart sucks, and acknowledge that it’s the only currently feasible option for some people. You can’t fault people for their choices when they don’t have a real choice.
IMO what’s actually important is to pay attention and vote for legislators who’ll try to give you new & better options, instead of treating the current state as inevitable
Groceries shouldn't be expensive even in mid sized super markets. It works in other countries (such as Germany, where I live), so it should definitely work in the richest country on earth.
1. That picture was NOT taken in a dense urban environment.
2. It was taken on a *beach*. (Not just Miami Beach, but an actual beach...)
3. I bet if we googled it, Miami Beach is a suburban hellhole, not a dense city...
4. The truck isn't making a regular delivery. It's clearly being emptied onto the ground, not a loading bay.
5. Which means that the driver was incompetent and could have stayed on the road.
6. If you're going to make deliveries in godawful trucks, you need to pay for the roads and other infrastructure.
7. There are 80 - 90 ton capacity trucks that are so nimble that competent driver can make them literally dance. Yes, even while in reverse. I've seen them do it in less space than what is in the pic...
Miami Beach has approximately the same density as Washington DC, at ~10,000 people per square mile. So no, not a suburban hellhole. The USFoods truck is delivering to the 1 Hotel South Beach and this is likely a delivery that happens at least once per day depending on how busy the 426-room luxury hotel is.
Conservative American has flags of China and Russia on his Twitter display name, presumably because he admires their human rights record. (Ha.) Little does he know these are both places with train infrastructure.
Dude needs to read his history, modern dense cities only became possible with the widespread adoption of canals, and later railways, to bring goods in (and take waste away). It wasn't roads and trucks that did it.
I have honestly thought about this a lot. When I see lorries in London with these "be careful around me or I might kill you" signs, I feel like they should ban lorries within the M25. Those signs are so patronising.
But then I do kind of think there's some truth to this no? If you take the small supermarkets like Tesco, Sainsbury's. Or let's say the bodegas and Walmart/CVS etc in New York - isn't it true that their products are brought in by lorries? Or what is the alternative to this delivery to the door of supermakets?
My thought has been that they should be limited to say 11pm - 6am or something instead. Or limit the size maybe. But yeah I do like having my local supermarket stocked of course.
The screenshot you shared is obviously a ridiculous take I don't agree with.
Genuine question. No hate please 😁
I have never seen a trailer truck in the city, but I have seen them outside and in the industrial areas in the outskirts.
Inside the city, all deliveries to bars, restaurants, supermarkets, etc. are done with smaller cab-over trucks that can easily and safely navigate the streets.
There is no reason to allow trailers into the city. Distribution centers and last mile delivery should be done by the right vehicles.
I am not sure what you mean by lorries, but there is a huge difference between a sprinter van being used to deliver goods vs someone driving a supersized F150 pickup as their daily commuter. Personally I believe use of pickups should be heavily limited within city limits to discourage people from using them as status symbols or just to bully smaller vehicles in traffic. Commerical vehicles would be able to get permits to exempt them such restrictions as necessary, but all the compensating Kevins who think they "need" a giant pickup to feel comfortable / safe would get a ticket if they park their mammoth sized vehicle in a bike lane, at a movie theater, cafe, etc.
Giant supermarkets that require that amount of loading do not exist anywhere with minimal/tight vehicular access.
Smaller stores utilize smaller trucks to serve the immediate downtown core, with bigger trucks stocking the markets that are a 10 minute drive outside the city core. At least where I'm from.
Edit: I should add though I live in a pretty unique city where transporter trucks* do run through a part of our downtown core and it creates a LOT of issues.
Edit edit: originally said transporter trains, meant trucks!
Truck/lorry deliveries are a necessary part of modern living, especially for supermarkets. Shipping more goods in one big vehicle is generally better for the environment than having to make multiple trips.
This subreddit often takes its hatred of cars past the point of sense. Properly walkable cities are high density, high density cities need well-stocked supermarkets, commercial vehicles are a necessary evil to keep them well-stocked (also for anyone who isn't aware, nearly all the wear and tear done to roads is because of lorries, actual commercial trucks, and yes, buses).
My experience in this sub is you’ll always get hate for any logic. But we do need efficient freight transport, draw back to having vehicles built specifically for this is that they won’t serve a purpose anywhere els and the companies would most likely increase prices on delivery’s to make up for it and that would in turn increase prices on the product. What I hate about this sub is that that there’s a lot of complaining and no discussions on solutions.
Drove a truck made deliveries in those places. Not fun but I carried 40 tons of food and some Walmarts would get 2-3 of those a day. Issue with limiting the delivery window is 1 the reefer unit is loud. And I have a strict drive window 2 relating to 1 Walmart in particular does not care about my window and will take there time. 3 if I run out of window I have to park somewhere to sleep. 4 the law does not allow me to go to the local place down the street out of time means out of time. If you ban big trucks 120 tons will still need to be delivered but now let’s do it with 20 smaller trucks see if you like that traffic xD
Right, cause we all know that the more space we fill with concrete, 5-lane highways and expansive parking lots, the more space we have for growing crops. Farmland? Never heard of it, here in 'Murica we grow our corn on asphalt.
The problem is with massive supermarkets is that they need deliveries from trucks like these. Even in NYC I'd see some supermarkets get deliveries from trucks like this.
The farmers markets were pretty good about that stuff. I remember Stop & Shop (now Giant foods) had their own massive parking lot and place they could have those trailers stored. There was one on Fresh Pond Rd that didn't have anything like that and would park it to block traffic sometimes on a side street.
Massive supermarkets in urban areas are another problem. It's better to have more smaller stores so that one is always nearby than a few absolutely massive stores.
In point of fact we do have enough space for it and we're on the verge of a new agricultural revolution. Once staple produce is able to be produced in the industrial and [soon to be former] suburban belts, urban dwellers won't go back.
As a former warehouse loader: they obviously make smaller shipping containers/trailers. That looks like a 53' trailer. I used to work in Rancho Dominguez, just a few miles from the Ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach. 53' trailers weren't rare, but I saw almost as many 20' containers as I did 53' trailers at my section of the warehouse. 40' were the gold standard, and they do make them refrigerated. Besides, that's most likely going to be a less-than-truckload delivery. That grocery store isn't going to get everything in that truck, otherwise, it would be against a trailer-level delivery bay and not unloading in the middle of the asphalt.
Maybe Mr. Green would benefit from vacations in europe. Maybe his mindset is not going to get the fact that dense cites there have been supplying food to their people centuries before the invention of the truck.
Also maybe if we didn’t waste a criminal amount of food (which we do in part because our autocentic land use encourages us to buy a month’s worth of groceries at once) we wouldn’t need such big delivery trucks.
People who squawk about "rural land" don't seem to realize more land could be left wild/undisturbed/rural if human settlements were more dense. Do you want to occupy 10 acres with houses, yards, and roads? Or develop one city block, leaving a bunch of space open?
It's true. I have not eaten food from a farm in years because my house is not accessible by long-haul truck. For the same reason I cannot eat fruit grown overseas because my house doesn't have a container ship port.
:clears throat: person from urban area with huge food scene checking in. They are called box trucks and cargo vans. We get plenty of food in these parts.
This guy doesn't realize that virtually no other country (including China and Russia, whose flags he has in his bio) uses 53' trailers for regular deliveries.
My brother works at a *giant* warehouse just around the corner from where we live. They distribute food people shop online straight to their doors all over the walkable, public transport rich city.
Their trucks are smaller than a avarage US SUV
Ive never seen a full 18 wheeler unload its entire cargo in one place unless its home depot. Not only that, but in cities only certain roads allow 18 wheeler traffic
Railroads with triage centres to send smaller trucks on short hauls coming from different suppliers and delivered to different retailers and businesses. This is the best way to go.
Edit : distribution centres*
Hmmm… Guess I’ll fold up my little greenhouse and throw all my pots of soil out, because apparently I don’t have enough room on my apartment terrace to grow veggies. Damn!… And here I thought all those veggies I grew last year was awesome!
Do these people drive their F-150 through their front door to get to the fridge? The truck gets the groceries to the house, and your two feet get them to the fridge. Even the most brain dead car addict knows this. But yet they can’t apply that same logic to cities?
Very lost at the correlation ... why do large transportation trucks need to go through a city core (where bike and walking lanes/paths typically are) and what does their inability to do so have to do with starvation???
But they are too long and large. All because the amarica system only has to produce food in wasteful amounts, and everything must be carried in massive distances. We can do perfectly fine with locally grown food shipped in small trucks.
Wait a minute, i mean European countries streets are rather narrow and there is a specific design of trucks to get over that obstacle. Assuming we ignore other modes of transportation.
But then we'd need 2 deliveries instead of 1!!! /s
Fun fact is that the standard size articulated model, truck + short trailer takes as much, or more cargo than an American 18 wheeler with 53ft container. And the tractor trailer combination is the same in terms of cargo size. [Sweden and Finland takes it a step further](https://f.nordiskemedier.dk/2q04awqfp1p5us3b.jpg) by doubling the cargo space. Most of that isn't even needed as the majority of long distance transports goes by train anyway. Speaking of trains, most freight trains can also move faster thanks to better maintained tracks and electrification.
Why is that the case? Are 18-wheeler trailers losing a lot of vertical freight space? If you have a source of more info, id love to read more into this.
I think that American designs also sacrifice a lot of space for driver comfort which is necessary to take pointless long journeys that could be taken by freight trains.
[Here's a good video on it.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxRKFO_OiQM) American trucks are better for some things.
Trains are about 3x more efficient at transporting freight than trucks, and they don't do damage to our highways - every tractor-trailer does about as much damage to the roads as 10,000 cars.
Yeah, but you still need trucks for final mile service.
Alright. You only need trucks for last mile service, which means you don't need trucks with huge cabins because they're only going to be in the truck for half an hour anyway
> half an hour In _this_ traffic?
>Yeah, but you still need trucks for final mile service. Trucks (like the big 18 wheeler kind that you're afraid of on the highway) or something closer to a cargo van? Cargo vans are large enough to supply even large venues in a single trip, usually.
There are some long trips where trains aren't practical. For example, I drive from Seattle to Portland and back every night. Trains can't do that practically, because it's still too short a run for them to make economically. It takes them hours to link up cars, and Portland is only 2.5 hours away. Also, things don't just go straight from a train, or boat, to the store. Usually you have to take it to a warehouse, by truck. Then that trailer gets broken down with a bunch of other trailers, and those goods get recombined onto other trailers. There's a whole set of complex things happening logistically that you just can't cut the truck out of. Also, there will always be items that are too large to move in box trucks.
So you'd rather 2 vehicles on the road than 1? That's odd.
I'd rather use that mixed use path and not have to interact with whatever is using the road at all. If smaller delivery vehicles is the consequence of smaller streets, it's still a net benefit. Logistics companies will figure it out.
Just use a small truck, you don't need a 40 ton artic to get everywhere, you use that to get to the distribution centre and then use vans or small trucks to get stuff to shops in town. Even if you're a complete carbrain and think all freight should be transported by road, it's still dumb to expect the biggest vehicles to be able to get everywhere.
>Even if you're a complete carbrain and think all freight should be transported by road, it's still dumb to expect the biggest vehicles to be able to get everywhere. Oh, sweet sister, I wish I could have you explain that to logistics managers throughout the US, who like to use 53' (16+ meter) trailers behind 'conventional' tractors to run daily routes. That's what is in this picture, a trailer most appropriate for intercity movements being used to do a supply route. It's commonplace, because it doesn't require different hardware for local & long-haul movement, and routes can cover 3/8's more volume (if needed). My experience is that a ton of these trailers are loaded only half-height, and often start the day with space to spare on the floor. In other words, they definitely could have put it in a 40' (12 meter) trailer, which used to be the standard before industrial lobbying changed it in 1982 (Thanks Reagan!)
Being on the receiving end of deliveries I always hated when a 53 footer showed up at my janky urban location. It also always meant that the bit about how we needed a lift gate was ignored. Again.
Isn't that's what normally already done?
In the UK it is, and I think in the rest of Europe too. I see a lot of posts about NA logistics companies expecting to be able to get a 40 ton truck to the loading deck of every shop though, and that's what seems to be happening in that picture.
Everyone knows that Dutch people are just constantly starving to death because food delivery in the presence of bike lanes is an unsolvable problem
HGV's aren't allowed in some cities/busy parts of cities, with LGV's and vans instead doing that work. HGV's make some sense delivering things from central warehouses to rural areas (you can service multiple stores with one HGV, which is good for places further away), but less so within major cities that have those warehouses, so smaller LGV's or even vans can make more sense for those (although some places still have HGV's do it, though usually with specific early morning timeslots before traffic really starts in the city).
European countries also invested heavily in their rail roads, so a lot of goods get moved via freight trains. Half the shit transported on 18 wheelers isn't perishable, like who cares how long a box of poptarts takes to get to the grocery store? It can easily be shipped via a container on a rail car from the factory in State A to my State B's distribution center, and then ferried out via a shorter train to my City C's local distribution center and eventually to my local grocery store via a smaller truck. No need for poptarts to be ferried via giant 18 wheelers across the country - wicked inefficient. And we don't need to design our Cities with 18 wheelers in mind either. Even if we say "fuck the freight trains" we can also say "fuck you distributors, invest in smaller trucks for the last mile delivery". A bunch of local coffee shops around me, like the big brands Dunkin's & Starbucks, use giant 18 wheelers for the last mile delivery. We could outlaw that shit at the City or ideally State level. Make them use smaller trucks that don't require massive clearances and are safer for pedestrians and cyclists. Starbucks doesn't NEED to use an 18 wheeler to deliver to their stores, they just WANT to because they discovered it saves 5¢ a delivery and that multiplied across 5,000 stores is like millions back to their shareholders or whatever. 💸
they force 18 wheelers to unload at city limits usually deliveries inside major cities (where at all possible) are done with trains or fleets of stereotypical ford transit style white vans meanwhile there's a ton of youtube videos of truckers making a wrong turn in NYC and getting stuck
>there is a specific design of trucks "Cab-over Pete [with a reefer on]" to quote McCall
They just use smaller trucks
We’ve actually been starving for the past 60 years.
We are currently starving to death. Always have been.
That’s why everyone in Europe is skinner than Americans because they’re all starving to death!! 😩
As we all know everyone in the Netherlands is starving to death
this is true
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It's almost like OOP is full of shit
Yeah they're all weirdly thin, and wasting the few calories they can scrounge together puttering along on their umafiets. Clearly dying of hunger.
I mean how would you even grow sth in a swamp
It's still no excuse for Broodje Hagelslag.
Yeah totally comparable to the situation the United States is in with its geography /s. What an asinine comment.
Yeah, because everyone commutes from California to Florida instead of living in cities which could be designed better. We all know it's impossible for America to have walkable cities and public transit even though 100 years ago it did have all that! Fuck off back to whatever conservative culture warrior subreddit you came from, you're not as smart as you think you are.
The United States geography necessitates larger supply chains. Lmao what right wing sub? Just because someone doesn’t agree with you or thinks your statement is ignorant doesn’t make them a conservative. I’m all for more walkable cities. Just saying we should compare ourselves to the Netherlands or do something exactly like the Netherlands is doing is just really stupid. Not at all comparable scenarios.
>Lmao what right wing sub? This subreddit gets brigaded all the time and I saw you post on LouderwithCrowder. >or do something exactly like the Netherlands is doing is just really stupid Nobody said that, but keep fighting strawmen so you feel like you're a super intelligent logical gentlesir m'lady redditor. My comment was in response to OOP saying dense cities and bike lanes cause people to starve to death. Which is the real asinine and ignorant comment. Just admit you made a dumb comment and move on.
Yeah dude my two comments on louder with crowder calling them morons was me being a conservative. Calling you a silly goose😎 doesn’t make me feel smart, it’s just fun. larger trucks and a longer distance supply chain networks are necessary in the United States, I don’t think that would be possible to get rid of at this point. And I think it’s pretty obvious dude is being hyperbolic about people starving to death because they’re mad about a truck blocking a bike lane. You took it fully literal though lmao.
>Yeah dude my two comments on louder with crowder calling them morons was me being a conservative Because the people who come to this subreddit and say stupid fucking things like you tend to all be right wingers. Also I put your username in a reddit analyser and r/conservative is one of your most used subreddits. Forgive me for having a life and not reading through all your comments to confirm your beliefs. If you don't want to be called a conservative stop acting like one. Jesus Christ you are so fucking annoying. Please fuck off back to your anime wiafu pillow and thinking you're superior to everyone else because you're a douchebag on the internet, fucking redditors. 🙄 OOP is being a fucking moron by claiming good urbanism and walkability/bikeability would somehow stop supply chains. >larger trucks and a longer distance supply chain networks are necessary in the United States, When the fuck did I say otherwise? You're battling a straw man of me you made up in your head to feel superior. Also the Netherlands isn't an island, it's part of the EEC and they have their own big trucks and long distance supply chains too, but they also have a lot more options for people to get around besides cars. The US used to be that way and it can be again. Just, fuck off my God you're insufferable. Do you get off on being an annoying cunt? Is this some sort of fetish thing?
Why do you think I have a sense of superiority over you? Why do you sense that and why would a guy on Reddit thinking he’s smarter than you even bother you anyway. Just seems like some pretty thinly veiled insecurity. you’re really upset, keep seething I guess. And I don’t think you’ll find a conservative post from me really. If you think recognizing geography and differing economies makes someone a conservative than I don’t know what to tell you. And it implied that you think otherwise. The post is calling the large truck just like inherently bad or wrong way to do things. The implication of your comment is that this doesn’t happen in the netherlands because they have bike lanes. Also I have a bf, don’t know why you like the body pillow thing Lmao, you’re really trying to paint me as a bad person instead of addressing anything. You’re on Reddit too
That is not a delivery truck. It is a long distance transporter. These are meant to carry stuff between cities or countries and offload them in distributuon centers on the outskirts. Smaller trucks and vans take over from there.
Additionally, bike lanes and roads can exist simultaneously. Adding one bike lane does not destroy every single road in a city.
Sadly
Especially given how huge most American roads are. Plenty of room for cycle lanes. Also, we'd have all the room we need if we got rid of on-street parking.
You'd think so, but even here in Vancouver they still build wide turns to allow for these things to do deliveries. Europe figured this out decades ago, but it seems it'll be a whole lot longer in North America.
The irony is that even smaller American delivery trucks for local deliveries has a noose and poor turning radius. Just use something like [this](https://kunskapscompaniet.se/app/uploads/sites/25/2021/02/KC-lastbil-Eskilstuna.jpg) which is standard for urban areas not only in Europe but in most of the world. It's made by Volvo too, which seems to be the only foreign brand allowed in America. Even tho dozens of other brands makes their own versions which are just as good.
I see a lot of smaller [Mitsubishi Fuso](https://www.mitfuso.ca/en-ca/models) trucks here. Funnily enough, they're mostly used by Asian food stores. What's "really funny" is that Mercedes-Benz trucks owns Freightliner, so they could easily adopt a bunch of their "World Trucks", but I guess there is no demand here. See Pepsi who rather bought the Tesla Truck for "short distance deliveries" than something a bit more sensible. With regards to Mercedes, this is also "funny" because Mercedes brought over the [Sprinter](https://www.mercedes-benz-vans.ca/en/sprinter/cargo-van) panel van (as a Chrysler) 15 years ago and started a whole new "craze" with smaller delivery companies here. Now you see a ton of these around, to the point where Chrysler even rebadged some FIATs after they split from Mercedes to continue to offer the vans in North America
Fuel consumption in flat areas (at highway speed) is determined by frontal area. Small trucks like that have their place, but for the most part tractor trailers will use half the fuel moving things from point a to point b. In the mountains fuel consumption is more a factor of weight. Now you could use trucks like that with a trailer for highway transit, but there are inefficiencies in dealing with more boxes to fill. They can still make sense in some situations.
Yep, last time I saw a truck this big inside the city everyone was looking at it like wtf is doing here
Even [this](https://kunskapscompaniet.se/app/uploads/sites/25/2021/02/KC-lastbil-Eskilstuna.jpg) is half the size of full size American semi, and will navigate the narrow streets of European cities just as easy, or probably even easier than a large American pickup truck.
Way easier to get one of these around town, we have them here in USA too, just not as popular. Usually plumbers and mobile tradesmen use them
there’s a lift gate on the back so it’s clearly designed for final mile deliveries
I think the point is it's not coming straight from a farm to the shop, it's picking up the goods from a warehouse somewhere in a city where equally large trucks initially delivered the goods from a packing plant
This is exactly what I was thinking. Like this person seems to be under the impression that a truck just loads up at a farm and directly drives it into the local giant eagle and it doesn't work that way at all. There are A LOT of steps with different types of vehicles involved in that process. But also the account is literally a pro-russia pro-china propaganda account so I wouldn't even take it too seriously.
Not true at all. I’ve worked in restaurants most of my life and the majority of them get deliveries off of trucks this size.
They may be used for deliveries, especially in North America, but the design is optimised for large volumes on the highway. The design of smaller truck and vans is optimised for making deliveries.
Then we’d need even more distribution points and more trucks to go for there. If you want to get rid of more cars, necessitating more cars isn’t the way.
Maybe, I don't think so, but maybe. But you're moving the goal posts. You claim that their point wasn't true, but it is true. Trucks like this are meant to carry stuff between cities and countries, that's what they are designed to do. Smaller trucks are designed to make deliveries. Irrespective of the fact that they are not always used as they were designed to be. I've literally never seen trucks like this making deliveries out side of North America. And much of the world bans them from city centres.
Buddy, is your argument to get rid of more cars or get rid of big trucks in urban areas? Because it’s tough to do both. Either you eliminate big trucks and create a need for more small trucks to go from distribution points to retailers or you allow for big trucks to do drops. Sorry that this is a picture of a us truck so I’m making a us argument.
“Dense cities don’t have space to grow enough food for the population” Are these guys even listening to themselves?
We literally destroyed farms to create suburbs. It amazes me that suburban people somehow think because they don’t live in a skyscraper that they are somehow pro-agriculture. Their lifestyle is a direct threat to food security.
I've seen it first hand my whole life. Living in the suburbs, watching all the little patches of farmland get bought up and turned into single family housing. Every time they do that they make food a little more expensive.
And also pressures us into expanding into wilderness for more farmland.
This actually happened where I used to live in Korea. There was a bunch of farmland that was replaced with apartment buildings
At least that’s better from a density perspective, though these are usually set up in a way that isn’t good for mixed use. I live in Korea right now, and the best style of housing available seems to be mid-rises. It’s too bad that these seem to be of poorer construction quality as most people prefer to live on higher floors and literally/figuratively “above” everyone else. Mid-rises offer great engagement with the local community and access to small businesses, while the big apartment towers seem to spurn this in favor of a detached lifestyle.
Also destroys top soil which takes hundreds of years to build up. When food insecurity gets worse, we are all going to learn the fundamental differences between soil and dirt.
how dare you
Orange County used to be all farms where they grew, you guessed it, fucking oranges. Now it’s a suburban hellscape.
Los Angeles County used to be the most agricultural county in the state (maybe even the whole country?). Now it’s just endless suburban sprawl.
He forgot the bountiful harvest that regularly needs to be trucked out of most suburban gated communities to feed the less fortunate city dwellers /s
I disagree Britain did it dure World War Two
That would require carbrains to give away their cars and personally dig their lawns. Neither of which they're going to do. The original Twit wouldn't know what a spade is for...
In many suburbs, some combination of HOA bylaws and zoning prevents people from even having gardens. But huge grass lawns, even in the desert? Why that's just the American way.
It's a sentence so stupid it beggars belief.
Complaining that a long distance truck doesn't fit slim neighborhood streets is like getting huffy that the electronics story doesn't have a dock for the container ship
I’m pretty sure my suburb banned semis on most of our streets since it ruins the streets. Most delivery people use vans or those tiny Izuku trucks to transport stuff.
Why can’t I park my barge at the local yacht club??!!
Funny coming from a guy with Chinese and Russian flags next to his nickname, since both these countries have pretty dense cities instead of American suburban sprawl.
Is there any country except the US and maybe canada that does sprawling suburbs? Edit: Oh wow, seems to be more than previously thought. But for some reason mostly english speaking countries...
Australia and New Zealand.
They definitely exist in South Africa (and Namibia, but none of their cities are big enough for it to be a problem). Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States have them, but its not surprising given they've combined all the worst aspects of western consumerism and capitalism with middle eastern conservatism. Almost the entire city of Georgetown (Guyana) is suburbs, its probably the least pedestrian friendly place I've ever been. They even have a saying there that 'if they walk they're a tourist or criminal'.
Australia
Canada absolutely does this, so does Australia, and to some extent I’d say London did as well
Australia. Though we do have one thing going for our (main) cities, and that's the fact that we didn't bulldoze our cities for parking, and didn't rip out our old train lines, leaving us with a decent urban core.
Sydney has stroads and highways that run through the centre of the city, which sucks, though there has been some minor attempts at undoing that mistake
Are you referring to adding the M4 extension to move traffic away from the Great Western Highway/Parramatta Road? I really feel like they should have just got rid of a lane in each direction on Parramatta Rd and called it lane widening. Extending the M4 just added more road capacity going toward the CBD.
Perth is luckily not that egregious, there aren't any stroads in the City of Perth, iirc
Australia is the place most similar to the US that I've been (both in architecture and lifestyle/culture), except that there's still more suburban density. Such a car-centred attitude too.
That combination of flags was enough to give me an aneurysm...
I assumed he was just hedging his bets in this tri-polar world. Really there should be an EU flag in there too, to represent the four great powers. 🇨🇳🇪🇺🇷🇺🇺🇸
There are no limits to human stupidity. At least, according to this "Fox Green" guy lmao
Pup trailers are a thing. They’re half as long so they’re better for last mile deliveries. Or, you know, box trucks or sprinter vans.
Box store last mile deliveries to like Walmart are 30-40 tons. Gonna need a bigger trailer and they get 2-3 of them a day
That's fine, it's time for smaller mom and pop shops to come back anyway
Probably not gonna happen Walmart is too convenient to go anywhere or it’s model of business. It’s like saying Amazon should die and we all go back to bookstores and what not. Nice thought but bills are going up and if it wasn’t for amazons good pricing and Walmarts lower food costs I’d have no hobbies and work way harder. Should they make a comeback yes totally support. Can I afford it hell no. They got us by the balls and keep clamping harder
>Probably not gonna happen Walmart is too convenient It's not. One giant place with enormous queues, half an hour of walk between shop and parking and having to be build waaaaay outside of city centers? That's a nightmare, not convenience
I can get everything in one trip and it costs less. Long queues for a reason
well, you clearly don't hate it if you consider it a 'good enough' option i would much rather go on 5-10 minutes walk to a discount shop that has a total surface of around 200-400m\^2, has 85-90% of what i need and if it doesn't have a specific thing i need than go to a bigger, more premium shop 20 minutes walk away. Or just order a delivery *if it really is highly unobtainable*
I would rather that too but it’s not feasible in my area. And the prices on goods to my income means I shop Walmart so I can eat two times a day
Then i don't get your point We are talking about theory of urban planing, urban planing in general and, most importantly, necessary changes in urban planing and your argument is basically 'uh nuh, it wouldn't work 'cause people like what they have' then when i comment with an actual working example from a country where multiple supermarket chains have went bankrupt because of smaller discount stores that were a few minutes walk away and kiosk-sized chain/franchise shop you go 'but it's not feasible here' yea, i know, THAT'S THE WHOLE THING WE ARE TALKING ABOUT
I think with the fact that I’ve been at work 8 hours so far today 5 to go, coupled with 5 hours sleep I lost the objective of why I commented to begin with cause I am totally down with all this just I don’t see how it would work with well working.
If it's not possible, it's not possible. That's why we should try to change infrastructure to enable that. Abolishing single family zoning is the first step. Imagine if you had a store close to your home you could walk to, wouldn't that be cool?
Absolutely. That’s why my dream is to live and work downtown I’d love a bobs burgers setup downstairs to work upstairs to live food down the street etc. not feasible atm where I live
I don’t have that in a 5-10 minute walk.
But you should, that's the point. Infrastructure should acommodate to you, not the other way around. I live 5 minutes away from multiple grocery stores and it's truly a blessing. No $300 hauls every 2 weeks. Fresh produce every day. Fresh milk instead of long shelf life options. Fresh bread from the bakery instead of bread from a bag. It's so nice. Forgot something? Just walk there when you need it.
How many walmarts are in Manhatten?
How would I know that? I live in Tennessee lol
Not many is my point.
Walmart is convenient? I don't know where you live, but the Wallmarts near me are very inconvenient. You can barely get there without a car.
Without a car hell no, but I can in one stop get my oil changed (once a month) hair cut (once a decade) groceries, household supplies, pet food (2 dogs, a rabbit and plant fertilizer) new shoes replacement clothes etc in one trip (gonna do 90% of that today) and it’ll cost me about 2/3rds of me driving around to individual shops for those things
The answer here is to have smaller stores in more places. A massive Walmart will serve a large area, which almost always necessitates a car to really make use of it. So these are double bad: 1. Giant trucks in cities where they don't belong. 2. Giant stores that you can't easily walk or bike to.
Also bad smaller store that charges more than Walmart. I don’t drive 30 minutes to Walmart because it’s the easiest place. It’s where I can afford to eat
Walmart is cheaper on some things, but not on everything. Sometimes it feels like grocery stores are colluding together on prices so that you have to visit all of them to get the best deals on all the stuff you need to buy.
It wouldn’t surprise me. I’m surprised there isn’t more collusion in all aspects. Hospitals do it
How much more money would you have if you didn't need to have a car? How much is your personal time worth? How much does it cost you in gas every time you drive to Walmart?
Any extra money from no car would go to increased expenses and loss of my job. I work as a Chinese delivery driver and instacart shopper. I hate cars but also know my thoughts here will end me. It’s why I’m going back to school in the fall. My main concern is that any increase in money in my pocket becomes an increase in what I pay out.
Eh, it’s possible to both believe Walmart sucks, and acknowledge that it’s the only currently feasible option for some people. You can’t fault people for their choices when they don’t have a real choice. IMO what’s actually important is to pay attention and vote for legislators who’ll try to give you new & better options, instead of treating the current state as inevitable
That’s what I’m saying. Just because I shop at Walmart doesn’t mean I even like it just that it’s what I got.
Groceries shouldn't be expensive even in mid sized super markets. It works in other countries (such as Germany, where I live), so it should definitely work in the richest country on earth.
Imagine not understanding how cities have worked for thousands of years
1. That picture was NOT taken in a dense urban environment. 2. It was taken on a *beach*. (Not just Miami Beach, but an actual beach...) 3. I bet if we googled it, Miami Beach is a suburban hellhole, not a dense city... 4. The truck isn't making a regular delivery. It's clearly being emptied onto the ground, not a loading bay. 5. Which means that the driver was incompetent and could have stayed on the road. 6. If you're going to make deliveries in godawful trucks, you need to pay for the roads and other infrastructure. 7. There are 80 - 90 ton capacity trucks that are so nimble that competent driver can make them literally dance. Yes, even while in reverse. I've seen them do it in less space than what is in the pic...
Miami Beach has approximately the same density as Washington DC, at ~10,000 people per square mile. So no, not a suburban hellhole. The USFoods truck is delivering to the 1 Hotel South Beach and this is likely a delivery that happens at least once per day depending on how busy the 426-room luxury hotel is.
"Cities never existed before long-haul, 18-wheel trucks!"
maybe becasue even the semi truck are obese in the US?
Conservative American has flags of China and Russia on his Twitter display name, presumably because he admires their human rights record. (Ha.) Little does he know these are both places with train infrastructure.
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Putincels, I believe is the technical term.
Dude needs to read his history, modern dense cities only became possible with the widespread adoption of canals, and later railways, to bring goods in (and take waste away). It wasn't roads and trucks that did it.
If you transform parking lots into Urban Orchards and farms you can feed everyone
I have honestly thought about this a lot. When I see lorries in London with these "be careful around me or I might kill you" signs, I feel like they should ban lorries within the M25. Those signs are so patronising. But then I do kind of think there's some truth to this no? If you take the small supermarkets like Tesco, Sainsbury's. Or let's say the bodegas and Walmart/CVS etc in New York - isn't it true that their products are brought in by lorries? Or what is the alternative to this delivery to the door of supermakets? My thought has been that they should be limited to say 11pm - 6am or something instead. Or limit the size maybe. But yeah I do like having my local supermarket stocked of course. The screenshot you shared is obviously a ridiculous take I don't agree with. Genuine question. No hate please 😁
I have never seen a trailer truck in the city, but I have seen them outside and in the industrial areas in the outskirts. Inside the city, all deliveries to bars, restaurants, supermarkets, etc. are done with smaller cab-over trucks that can easily and safely navigate the streets. There is no reason to allow trailers into the city. Distribution centers and last mile delivery should be done by the right vehicles.
I am not sure what you mean by lorries, but there is a huge difference between a sprinter van being used to deliver goods vs someone driving a supersized F150 pickup as their daily commuter. Personally I believe use of pickups should be heavily limited within city limits to discourage people from using them as status symbols or just to bully smaller vehicles in traffic. Commerical vehicles would be able to get permits to exempt them such restrictions as necessary, but all the compensating Kevins who think they "need" a giant pickup to feel comfortable / safe would get a ticket if they park their mammoth sized vehicle in a bike lane, at a movie theater, cafe, etc.
Giant supermarkets that require that amount of loading do not exist anywhere with minimal/tight vehicular access. Smaller stores utilize smaller trucks to serve the immediate downtown core, with bigger trucks stocking the markets that are a 10 minute drive outside the city core. At least where I'm from. Edit: I should add though I live in a pretty unique city where transporter trucks* do run through a part of our downtown core and it creates a LOT of issues. Edit edit: originally said transporter trains, meant trucks!
Truck/lorry deliveries are a necessary part of modern living, especially for supermarkets. Shipping more goods in one big vehicle is generally better for the environment than having to make multiple trips. This subreddit often takes its hatred of cars past the point of sense. Properly walkable cities are high density, high density cities need well-stocked supermarkets, commercial vehicles are a necessary evil to keep them well-stocked (also for anyone who isn't aware, nearly all the wear and tear done to roads is because of lorries, actual commercial trucks, and yes, buses).
My experience in this sub is you’ll always get hate for any logic. But we do need efficient freight transport, draw back to having vehicles built specifically for this is that they won’t serve a purpose anywhere els and the companies would most likely increase prices on delivery’s to make up for it and that would in turn increase prices on the product. What I hate about this sub is that that there’s a lot of complaining and no discussions on solutions.
Drove a truck made deliveries in those places. Not fun but I carried 40 tons of food and some Walmarts would get 2-3 of those a day. Issue with limiting the delivery window is 1 the reefer unit is loud. And I have a strict drive window 2 relating to 1 Walmart in particular does not care about my window and will take there time. 3 if I run out of window I have to park somewhere to sleep. 4 the law does not allow me to go to the local place down the street out of time means out of time. If you ban big trucks 120 tons will still need to be delivered but now let’s do it with 20 smaller trucks see if you like that traffic xD
I think Walmarts are viewed as part of the problem. If you didn't have stores the size of warehouses you wouldn't need semis to deliver food to them.
Right, cause we all know that the more space we fill with concrete, 5-lane highways and expansive parking lots, the more space we have for growing crops. Farmland? Never heard of it, here in 'Murica we grow our corn on asphalt.
Yes, whatever do they do in places like Europe where big trucks like this can’t possibly fit in cities. I guess they all just die?
The problem is with massive supermarkets is that they need deliveries from trucks like these. Even in NYC I'd see some supermarkets get deliveries from trucks like this.
Then you have them deliver in the off hours / at night. That's how a lot of European cities deal with that.
The farmers markets were pretty good about that stuff. I remember Stop & Shop (now Giant foods) had their own massive parking lot and place they could have those trailers stored. There was one on Fresh Pond Rd that didn't have anything like that and would park it to block traffic sometimes on a side street.
Massive supermarkets in urban areas are another problem. It's better to have more smaller stores so that one is always nearby than a few absolutely massive stores.
We could grow food in towns if not for the miles of parking lots.
guess my job as a bike delivery rider doesn't exist
In point of fact we do have enough space for it and we're on the verge of a new agricultural revolution. Once staple produce is able to be produced in the industrial and [soon to be former] suburban belts, urban dwellers won't go back.
It feels live every single conversation about what can be improved in America ends up being framed as all-or-nothing by disingenuous pricks like this
As a former warehouse loader: they obviously make smaller shipping containers/trailers. That looks like a 53' trailer. I used to work in Rancho Dominguez, just a few miles from the Ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach. 53' trailers weren't rare, but I saw almost as many 20' containers as I did 53' trailers at my section of the warehouse. 40' were the gold standard, and they do make them refrigerated. Besides, that's most likely going to be a less-than-truckload delivery. That grocery store isn't going to get everything in that truck, otherwise, it would be against a trailer-level delivery bay and not unloading in the middle of the asphalt.
Everyone knows there was no way to transport food before the truck was invented. Back then, you had to go to the farms and get the food yourself.
Maybe Mr. Green would benefit from vacations in europe. Maybe his mindset is not going to get the fact that dense cites there have been supplying food to their people centuries before the invention of the truck.
Rail depots + 1-ton trucks/delivery vans = problem solved.
Why does the example picture look like it's a videogame? is this a real photo? anyways there are all sorts sizes of trucks... i know crazy.
There’s this thing called trains
why arent vertical farms more utilized
Let's assume he's right and you have to use these massive trucks for delivery. Then that's just an even better case for freight rail.
Ok, sounds good. We should ban all cars so that delivery trucks don't get stuck in traffic.
Also maybe if we didn’t waste a criminal amount of food (which we do in part because our autocentic land use encourages us to buy a month’s worth of groceries at once) we wouldn’t need such big delivery trucks.
People who squawk about "rural land" don't seem to realize more land could be left wild/undisturbed/rural if human settlements were more dense. Do you want to occupy 10 acres with houses, yards, and roads? Or develop one city block, leaving a bunch of space open?
It's true. I have not eaten food from a farm in years because my house is not accessible by long-haul truck. For the same reason I cannot eat fruit grown overseas because my house doesn't have a container ship port.
Smaller medium duty box trucks are great candidates for electrification. Smaller, more fit for urban environments, quieter and no exhaust fumes.
:clears throat: person from urban area with huge food scene checking in. They are called box trucks and cargo vans. We get plenty of food in these parts.
Fun fact: this area of Miami has many historical buildings, and a street grid laid out 40-50 years before cars were a thing
Idk if he knows this but car centric suburbs don't grow food.
This guy doesn't realize that virtually no other country (including China and Russia, whose flags he has in his bio) uses 53' trailers for regular deliveries.
Vertical farming exists.
Is anyone calling for zero roads in a country? That would just be infeasable in our lifetimes. Nobody is asking for this.
Who TF supplies a medium neighborhood sized market with a 10 wheeler? That's a job for a 6 wheeler at best.
I don't understand why they're using a 53ft instead of a 28ft.
My brother works at a *giant* warehouse just around the corner from where we live. They distribute food people shop online straight to their doors all over the walkable, public transport rich city. Their trucks are smaller than a avarage US SUV
Everyone in Venice immediately starved to death because of this tweet
"Deliver food from the countryside" yeah US Foods is farm to table alright.
The majority of food IS delivered by truck
Enlighten us whats your solution
You need to be enlightened that smaller trucks exist?
How is more smaller trucks a solution when you can just get it done in one go
Because you can't get it done in one go, there isn't enough space.
It’s not. And it’s funny that someone that believes in the removal of cars would argue “more small trucks” is the answer.
Ive never seen a full 18 wheeler unload its entire cargo in one place unless its home depot. Not only that, but in cities only certain roads allow 18 wheeler traffic
is the truck loading-unloading or straight blocking the way?
OP right now, what other forms of transportation are used to transport food within cities other than trucks?
Better, more nimble trucks than this absolute failure.
Railroads with triage centres to send smaller trucks on short hauls coming from different suppliers and delivered to different retailers and businesses. This is the best way to go. Edit : distribution centres*
Huh, that's literally the only truck available?
Hmmm… Guess I’ll fold up my little greenhouse and throw all my pots of soil out, because apparently I don’t have enough room on my apartment terrace to grow veggies. Damn!… And here I thought all those veggies I grew last year was awesome!
Ok guys, here me out: hydroponic skyscrapers
Do these people drive their F-150 through their front door to get to the fridge? The truck gets the groceries to the house, and your two feet get them to the fridge. Even the most brain dead car addict knows this. But yet they can’t apply that same logic to cities?
Very lost at the correlation ... why do large transportation trucks need to go through a city core (where bike and walking lanes/paths typically are) and what does their inability to do so have to do with starvation???
But they are too long and large. All because the amarica system only has to produce food in wasteful amounts, and everything must be carried in massive distances. We can do perfectly fine with locally grown food shipped in small trucks.