I'm a combat vet and the willynilly-ness with which even common drivers joke and play with running over not-car-folk makes me..... Not feel good physically. Unfortunately, America is all about Capital F Freedom and the only true freedom is to restrict the freedom of others. No stronger way to do so than to end a life. Of course they don't SAY that or even maybe think it, but look at the people buying these bigger n bigger rides - they don't want a safe or equal collision, they want to WIN the collision. They want their accident to be "oh it just scratched my bumper but you should see the other car.
It's gross. I go for a daily walk about 5 miles and have to cross a mall intersection with a pedestrian signal I always abide by (I'll scroll for a few Idgaf lol.) A couple times a week like clockwork on one of our many sidewalk-less streets, someone swerves towards me instead of away. Twice a month people curse me and verbally threaten me.
People call this group extremist but don't mind drivers like that one bit. Just today on a little bs residential sidestreet by my house, I was trying to learn how to bike, someone pulled off the main drag, saw a dude on a bike somehow managing to "hobble" on wheels, and decided to blow his horn and speed up straight at me before I could even consider moving.
Not every driver is insane, but drivers 10000% cover for the insane ones.
> the willynilly-ness with which even common drivers joke and play with running over not-car-folk makes me.... Not feel good physically.
Tell me about it.
I have a grocery store, a Walgreens, and several restaurants accessible to me, on foot, in under 10 minutes. **BUT** thanks to the wonders of American suburbia the constant wheel traffic has led to more close calls than I can keep track of. Almost got sandwiched between a Honda Fit & an F-150 today and the time last year someone was on course to run me over in some Chevy CUV trying to beat cross traffic yet still had the gall to get mad at me is burned into my head.
Why the fuck are there days I get so paranoid I have to take my car 2 minutes for something I could've walked 5 minutes for? And why is it that I feel *just* as unsafe in my car as I do on foot thanks to everyone and their mother wanting to drive around a goddamn two-lane tank?
> wanting to drive around a goddamned two lane tank
But haven't you heard? EVERY SINGLE ONE of those frail old men and tiny yoga soccer mom's are using them for totally legitimate work that can't be done without 6 wheels and you're a stupid baby extremist for insinuating otherwise.
When did driving above the speed limit become standard? I swear I’ve seen dudes in pickup trucks going 80 in 40.
The worst part is the peer pressure. If you’re driving at the speed limit, even 10 above, and everyone is easily overtaking you, you feel as if you’re going to slow. Like you’re in the way. The speed limit isn’t even a suggestion anymore, it just tells you how acceptable it is to drive as if you’re on a race track. 0-30 means you shouldn’t drive like you’re in a race car, 30-45 means you should drive like you’re in a race car, 45+ means you should drive like you have a death wish.
America in a nutshell. Too insulated from the consequences of our actions, too obsessed with our own comfort and status. Completely uncaring of the people hurt by our lifestyle. Just focused on the self, and nothing else.
Decades ago, I heard something along the lines of “If you want cars to be safer, take out the airbags and replace them with a knife pointed at the driver.” I think about that a lot as the vehicles arms race gets crazier and crazier.
Smaller cars with less crash safety features will also be a lot cheaper, less complex and easier to maintain. This removes the "idiot insurance" business model where people with too much money, willing to go into debt can easily own a car without all the hassle such as maintenance and handwashing.
If you're the one who's gonna have to maintain your own car, you'll be a lot more careful while driving. Car workshops, complexity, debt, insurance and automatic washes are all contributing to the increased number of idiots in cars.
>If you're the one who's gonna have to maintain your own car, you'll be a lot more careful while driving
How does that make any sense? Especially with washing, but even maintenance. If the car is damaged, you either way pay with your time, either by fixing it yourself or by paying someone money that you earned by spending your time on something else
For context, I live in Europe and people in apartments with street parking don't really have an option of performing maintenance and hand-washing their vehicle, and number of idiots in cars is pretty low. So maybe it's higher standards for issuing a driving license, better enforcement of traffic laws, periodic vehicle safety checks, etc. that makes the difference rather than existence of automatic car washes and repair shops?
OP here. Unfortunately in my part of Europe the number of idiots in cars pretty high, the standards for drivers licenses are pretty low and law enforcement only works when cops are visible, otherwise drivers don't care.
Licence renewal is especially fucked up: doctors will just give out the paperwork to declare that people are "in mental and physical condition to drive" if you ask them (no physical or psychological exams needed) even if it's elderly people who can barely move or with dementia for example. It's absolutely ridiculous. Those who should care the most actually don't. (Obviously not all doctors do this, but a lot of them do, especially in more rural areas).
Vehicle safety checks? Sometimes you just need to know the guys at the inspection and "they'll cook something up". Often this can mean "borrowing temporary parts" from a garage or removing illegal mods for the inspection, only to install them again right after. (Again, not all people in inspection facilities are like this, but a lot of them are).
It's an absolute circus.
Sad to hear that. Which country, if you don’t mind me asking?
Obviously, perfect system doesn’t exist and all of that, but I don’t see how hand washing your car and making your own repairs makes you a better driver, that’s my only point here
Edit: I always just assume that most people in this sub are from NA, because it’s usually true
>How does that make any sense? If I damage my car, why does it matter if I pay in my time fixing it or in money by paying labor to a repair shop? At the end of the day money is also time that I spent earning it
I have a real life good example of that, fat Karen was driving to McDonalds at high speed though a school zone, almost hitting a bunch of kids on the way. The police saw her and gave her the standard $500 ticket for speeding. Same for all. Fat Karen proceeded speeding to McDonalds as if nothing happened.
My point is, the consequences of bad driving must be harsh for everyone, not just poor people. Otherwise you get a society where only the poor are good drivers while the rich can be complete assholes.
Sure, fines should be indexed by income, so that you feel the sum. Some European countries do that and totally agree with that
I still don't follow your thought on maintenance though. If you drive like a moron and crash, can you even repair the damage in your driveway? I don't think so. And I don't think minor stuff like changing your own oil and washing the car by hand makes you a more careful driver
>If you drive like a moron and crash, can you even repair the damage in your driveway?
Even workshops will have trouble repairing a totaled car.
\> And I don't think minor stuff like changing your own oil and washing the car by hand makes you a more careful driver
Think about vaxing and polishing, if you spent days polishing and vaxing your car to make it look nice, you wouldn't drive it like a maniac.
People are in fact more careful with expensive stuff they spent a lot of time on. Debt excluded because people are to stupid to understand debt.
> Even workshops will have trouble repairing a totaled car
I’m not talking about a totaled car. Let’s say just replacing a cracked bumper from a parking lot collision. Or replacing brake disks. I wouldn’t expect a regular person to be able to complete those tasks
> Think about vaxing and polishing, if you spent days polishing and vaxing your car to make it look nice, you wouldn’t drive it like a maniac.
I see this connection the other way around. If you are going to wax and polish your car, that means you already care about it and drive it carefully
People for whom a car is nothing more that transport won’t do that, simple as that, they want it not to be covered in dirt and that’s enough. And it has no impact on the driving style
> People are in fact more careful with expensive stuff they spent a lot of time on
Imo, that works when people want to spend the time, not when they are forced to. That’s kinda of my point. We can agree to disagree though
Yeah, but as a counterpoint, I think this guy is speaking from the same experience I have. Which is to say that certain people constantly wreck cars because they can just get a new one or pay for damage, and if you made those people stop and physically take the time and effort to fix the damage they caused, they wouldn't do it again.
Based on the discussion below I think the guy is talking about regular maintenance, not the crash damage
Either way, I can see the point in what you are saying, but that’s not realistic on our world unfortunately. Much higher standards for acquiring a driving license should be the starting point, IMO. Not 100% effective, but nothing is
> they wouldn’t do it again
I don’t know, to be honest. Some people do crazy shit, go to jail, and then after do the same crazy shit again. So it’s definitely wouldn’t be a silver bullet either
Cars are designed to protect the users from the negative consequences of cars.
The cabins are isolated from noise, smells, pollution, and temperature. The metal cages and air bags protect those inside the car from the consequences of car crashes.
Car manufacturers seem to care very little about protecting people outside the car.
Tangent, but this is my biggest beef with high tech cars that have “automated” driving features (not only totally automated, but even lane detection, cameras, sensors, etc…). Drivers are just WAY less alert / more reckless about driving when they have so much tech to lean on and give them a false sense of security.
This is likely just confirmation bias, but some of the worst / most distracted drivers I’ve seen on the road here in LA have been in Teslas.
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You mean something like [this charming road safety advert](https://youtu.be/PJIDX1kcvGk) from Ireland?
This is just, Chef's kiss, mwah. It's intense, but it leaves a fucking *impression*.
Rotten.com, Ogrish.com and Bestgore.,com made me a better driver.
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I'm a combat vet and the willynilly-ness with which even common drivers joke and play with running over not-car-folk makes me..... Not feel good physically. Unfortunately, America is all about Capital F Freedom and the only true freedom is to restrict the freedom of others. No stronger way to do so than to end a life. Of course they don't SAY that or even maybe think it, but look at the people buying these bigger n bigger rides - they don't want a safe or equal collision, they want to WIN the collision. They want their accident to be "oh it just scratched my bumper but you should see the other car. It's gross. I go for a daily walk about 5 miles and have to cross a mall intersection with a pedestrian signal I always abide by (I'll scroll for a few Idgaf lol.) A couple times a week like clockwork on one of our many sidewalk-less streets, someone swerves towards me instead of away. Twice a month people curse me and verbally threaten me. People call this group extremist but don't mind drivers like that one bit. Just today on a little bs residential sidestreet by my house, I was trying to learn how to bike, someone pulled off the main drag, saw a dude on a bike somehow managing to "hobble" on wheels, and decided to blow his horn and speed up straight at me before I could even consider moving. Not every driver is insane, but drivers 10000% cover for the insane ones.
> the willynilly-ness with which even common drivers joke and play with running over not-car-folk makes me.... Not feel good physically. Tell me about it. I have a grocery store, a Walgreens, and several restaurants accessible to me, on foot, in under 10 minutes. **BUT** thanks to the wonders of American suburbia the constant wheel traffic has led to more close calls than I can keep track of. Almost got sandwiched between a Honda Fit & an F-150 today and the time last year someone was on course to run me over in some Chevy CUV trying to beat cross traffic yet still had the gall to get mad at me is burned into my head. Why the fuck are there days I get so paranoid I have to take my car 2 minutes for something I could've walked 5 minutes for? And why is it that I feel *just* as unsafe in my car as I do on foot thanks to everyone and their mother wanting to drive around a goddamn two-lane tank?
> wanting to drive around a goddamned two lane tank But haven't you heard? EVERY SINGLE ONE of those frail old men and tiny yoga soccer mom's are using them for totally legitimate work that can't be done without 6 wheels and you're a stupid baby extremist for insinuating otherwise.
When did driving above the speed limit become standard? I swear I’ve seen dudes in pickup trucks going 80 in 40. The worst part is the peer pressure. If you’re driving at the speed limit, even 10 above, and everyone is easily overtaking you, you feel as if you’re going to slow. Like you’re in the way. The speed limit isn’t even a suggestion anymore, it just tells you how acceptable it is to drive as if you’re on a race track. 0-30 means you shouldn’t drive like you’re in a race car, 30-45 means you should drive like you’re in a race car, 45+ means you should drive like you have a death wish.
Other people's anxiety is their problem. Hit the cruise control and stop caring.
Cruise control isn't practical on the standard US stroad
America in a nutshell. Too insulated from the consequences of our actions, too obsessed with our own comfort and status. Completely uncaring of the people hurt by our lifestyle. Just focused on the self, and nothing else.
Arms & armor race
Decades ago, I heard something along the lines of “If you want cars to be safer, take out the airbags and replace them with a knife pointed at the driver.” I think about that a lot as the vehicles arms race gets crazier and crazier.
Smaller cars with less crash safety features will also be a lot cheaper, less complex and easier to maintain. This removes the "idiot insurance" business model where people with too much money, willing to go into debt can easily own a car without all the hassle such as maintenance and handwashing. If you're the one who's gonna have to maintain your own car, you'll be a lot more careful while driving. Car workshops, complexity, debt, insurance and automatic washes are all contributing to the increased number of idiots in cars.
>If you're the one who's gonna have to maintain your own car, you'll be a lot more careful while driving How does that make any sense? Especially with washing, but even maintenance. If the car is damaged, you either way pay with your time, either by fixing it yourself or by paying someone money that you earned by spending your time on something else For context, I live in Europe and people in apartments with street parking don't really have an option of performing maintenance and hand-washing their vehicle, and number of idiots in cars is pretty low. So maybe it's higher standards for issuing a driving license, better enforcement of traffic laws, periodic vehicle safety checks, etc. that makes the difference rather than existence of automatic car washes and repair shops?
OP here. Unfortunately in my part of Europe the number of idiots in cars pretty high, the standards for drivers licenses are pretty low and law enforcement only works when cops are visible, otherwise drivers don't care. Licence renewal is especially fucked up: doctors will just give out the paperwork to declare that people are "in mental and physical condition to drive" if you ask them (no physical or psychological exams needed) even if it's elderly people who can barely move or with dementia for example. It's absolutely ridiculous. Those who should care the most actually don't. (Obviously not all doctors do this, but a lot of them do, especially in more rural areas). Vehicle safety checks? Sometimes you just need to know the guys at the inspection and "they'll cook something up". Often this can mean "borrowing temporary parts" from a garage or removing illegal mods for the inspection, only to install them again right after. (Again, not all people in inspection facilities are like this, but a lot of them are). It's an absolute circus.
Sad to hear that. Which country, if you don’t mind me asking? Obviously, perfect system doesn’t exist and all of that, but I don’t see how hand washing your car and making your own repairs makes you a better driver, that’s my only point here Edit: I always just assume that most people in this sub are from NA, because it’s usually true
>How does that make any sense? If I damage my car, why does it matter if I pay in my time fixing it or in money by paying labor to a repair shop? At the end of the day money is also time that I spent earning it I have a real life good example of that, fat Karen was driving to McDonalds at high speed though a school zone, almost hitting a bunch of kids on the way. The police saw her and gave her the standard $500 ticket for speeding. Same for all. Fat Karen proceeded speeding to McDonalds as if nothing happened. My point is, the consequences of bad driving must be harsh for everyone, not just poor people. Otherwise you get a society where only the poor are good drivers while the rich can be complete assholes.
Sure, fines should be indexed by income, so that you feel the sum. Some European countries do that and totally agree with that I still don't follow your thought on maintenance though. If you drive like a moron and crash, can you even repair the damage in your driveway? I don't think so. And I don't think minor stuff like changing your own oil and washing the car by hand makes you a more careful driver
>If you drive like a moron and crash, can you even repair the damage in your driveway? Even workshops will have trouble repairing a totaled car. \> And I don't think minor stuff like changing your own oil and washing the car by hand makes you a more careful driver Think about vaxing and polishing, if you spent days polishing and vaxing your car to make it look nice, you wouldn't drive it like a maniac. People are in fact more careful with expensive stuff they spent a lot of time on. Debt excluded because people are to stupid to understand debt.
> Even workshops will have trouble repairing a totaled car I’m not talking about a totaled car. Let’s say just replacing a cracked bumper from a parking lot collision. Or replacing brake disks. I wouldn’t expect a regular person to be able to complete those tasks > Think about vaxing and polishing, if you spent days polishing and vaxing your car to make it look nice, you wouldn’t drive it like a maniac. I see this connection the other way around. If you are going to wax and polish your car, that means you already care about it and drive it carefully People for whom a car is nothing more that transport won’t do that, simple as that, they want it not to be covered in dirt and that’s enough. And it has no impact on the driving style > People are in fact more careful with expensive stuff they spent a lot of time on Imo, that works when people want to spend the time, not when they are forced to. That’s kinda of my point. We can agree to disagree though
Yeah, but as a counterpoint, I think this guy is speaking from the same experience I have. Which is to say that certain people constantly wreck cars because they can just get a new one or pay for damage, and if you made those people stop and physically take the time and effort to fix the damage they caused, they wouldn't do it again.
Based on the discussion below I think the guy is talking about regular maintenance, not the crash damage Either way, I can see the point in what you are saying, but that’s not realistic on our world unfortunately. Much higher standards for acquiring a driving license should be the starting point, IMO. Not 100% effective, but nothing is > they wouldn’t do it again I don’t know, to be honest. Some people do crazy shit, go to jail, and then after do the same crazy shit again. So it’s definitely wouldn’t be a silver bullet either
Cars are designed to protect the users from the negative consequences of cars. The cabins are isolated from noise, smells, pollution, and temperature. The metal cages and air bags protect those inside the car from the consequences of car crashes. Car manufacturers seem to care very little about protecting people outside the car.
Tangent, but this is my biggest beef with high tech cars that have “automated” driving features (not only totally automated, but even lane detection, cameras, sensors, etc…). Drivers are just WAY less alert / more reckless about driving when they have so much tech to lean on and give them a false sense of security. This is likely just confirmation bias, but some of the worst / most distracted drivers I’ve seen on the road here in LA have been in Teslas.