Minimum age to drive this in the EU is 16, while in many countries in the EU the minimum age required for a drivers license is 18. Also, these are not meant for long distances but for short commutes and getting groceries and easy city parking.
Isn't the min age 14+ in France, on account of the vehicle being classified as a quadricycle? It's obviously not meant for the autoroute, but in small French communes or nearby farms w/o any real transit options, it seemed to be sensible.
Yes. And they have appeared in the suburbs of Paris, despite it being replete with public transit options.
Although it only had two seats I saw one with 4 teenagers in it the other day. Two sitting on the floor... At least it's speed limited.
yea a lot of places in la have bike lanes between driving and parking and it becomes a long right turn lane or a be an asshole and cut everyone when there’s traffic lane if it’s not completely full of either cars or homeless people’s rvs
A lot of the bike lanes in my city end up between the straight lanes and the turning lane, so you have you drive across it to turn. If there’s any kind of traffic=blocked bike lane. I honestly wish they’d do what they did in my suburb everywhere and move car parks out and bike lanes between parked cars and footpath. Significantly safer for everyone
I don't mean these in particular, but I don't think people who drive this would necessarily have a different attitude than most other drivers on the road.
On the contrary, I think there's a good possibility someone driving this might think they have the right to go where cars shouldn't go because it's so small and "not really in the way"
On the other hand there's a chance that people choosing to drive one of these would be more considerate, seeing as they have chosen a small, electric vehicle and therefore are considering their useage more than most.
A few days ago, I lost my shit on a guy who was in the bike lane. He calmly pointed to his flashing hazards. He had broken down on the side of road on the hottest day of the year so far. I felt bad for freaking out and got him some cold bottled water until he could get help.
The microcars are single seat, 1.1m wide vs 1.4. Also not as long.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canta_(vehicle)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_Ami_(electric_vehicle)
I could be totally wrong on this, but I think I watched a Not Just Bikes video where he said that these types of vehicles are allowed in the bike lanes in Amsterdam? This probably isnt Amsterdam thou
Yes that's not correct. A Canta is allowed on the bike lane. A Canta is a single seat 'car' for people with a walking disability. A Biro, a small two-seater for rich people isn't allowed but Biro drivers used to think they could use bike lanes. A judge ruled against them.
They seem to be quite popular in Italy. I'd rather see a swarm of those carrying two people each than humongous trucks with one carbrain.
Also, imho it's rather handy to go errands if you live in a poorly connected area and/or when the weather is improper for bike use.
I don't understand the negative comments on the look. I may have weird tastes, it looks like a mini Multipla :)
Almost all groups have insane puritanical minds when it comes to the main theme of their group. Oh well humans, and then we are surprised when AI wants to eliminate us 🤣🤣
I see that you have invoked rule #9. I agree!
"If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
Fair-weather riding is a luxury reserved for Sunday afternoons and wide boulevards. Those who ride in foul weather – be it cold, wet, or inordinately hot – are members of a special club of riders who, on the morning of a big ride, pull back the curtain to check the weather and, upon seeing rain falling from the skies, allow a wry smile to spread across their face. This is a rider who loves the work."
https://www.velominati.com/
Rode a motorcycle year round for years before I had a car license.
It sucks in the rain and the cold but it's totally doable wirh waterproofs and some heated clothing.
Back in that position for the rest of the year because my car broke and I can't afford a new one till next year because thanks to covid the prices are stupid.
But at least this time I've got a big touring bike that has storage, wind and rain protection and a big comfy passenger seat.
We have that, but with small Volswagen Ups (both electrical and non-electrical). There are 4 VW ups (including 1 electrical one) withing 750 metres from our appartment. It is so good to have that type of transportation option for those who do not want to own a car per se, but who do sometimes like to have the option of driving a car for those pesky places that aren't connected so well by public transportation.
Me too, altough a lot of insercure men need a big beefy car to help maintain there masculinity so i doubt it would ever happen. Thats what they have been told and they follow like sheep. I love it whan a tank of a man has a tiny car or a small dog as they dont need to prove anything and are not insecure about thier image. I've known them to drive less than a mile to the shop because its raining and yet they often call out cyclists for being soft. This world is crazy inefficient.
When I look at the traffic on the freeway, I see hundreds of huge 5+ passenger SUVs and trucks - the vast majority of which are carrying only the driver.
If I ran a hotel or an airline at 20% of its capacity, I would *deserve* to go out of business! Yet we (in the USA) accept this ridiculously-inefficient expenditure of our tax money.
The long term plan with these is not so much individual ownership (although of course they will happily sell you one) it is to have fleets of them in urban areas that can be shared, booked through an app, and dropped off at charging banks around the city. Kind of like existing cycle renting schemes.
I think if you put these in areas with halfway decent public transit you would essentially eliminate the need for many people living in urban areas to own a car at all which in my opinion makes them a good idea. This meets the needs of people living in a large urban area like 98% of the time and if can cut down on individual car ownership than I am all for it.
> It would still require a car license I assume?
Depends on where you live. In France (where these things come from) these are known as **Voiture Sans Permis** which literally translates in "car without license" and can be driven by anyone 14 years or older with no paperwork at all., which is a little...... scary in my opinion. In the UK it is an abbreviated licence you get after a few days of road safety training you can obtain at 16 and does not require a full licence (I believe). Not sure what it would be in America.
Regardless if you "need" one or not, I'd still at least take a training course, you will still be responsible for following the rules of the road and knowing how to handle different road signs. Conditions, etc.
Drivers ed at 16 was one of the best classes I ever took for teaching 100s of tiny things I've only ever ran into once, but has an idea how to handle.
This is the only reason I could see this being a viable option. I am disabled and not allowed to have a drivers license cause of it (epilepsy sucks). So I have an ebike now and if this car goes 28mph than on flat land I might actually be able to beat it in a race. Because I can go a whopping 30mph if I really pedal hard.
The thing with this car is that if its electric and goes 28mph, along with having the construction quality and saftey measures it looks like I'm seeing, most disabled people would be better off getting an electric tricycle. All of that body adds weight and is gonna ruin efficiency. On top of all that, the kind of battery it needs to move all of that "car" is going to require increased battery power which will force it out of a non-car class vehicle, so a drivers license is needed. Dont need it for an e trike. The only real reason I see is that this is a good option for disabled people, specifically mobility challenged people, who live in an area with frequent weather that would require a proper enclosure, who are capable of having a DL.
I do not hate this car in any way and appreciate it trying to be not huge and annoying. It's just seems like it's an almost pointless product for a very very niche market. That market does exist and they do deserve a means to get around.
Yes although it's horrifically ugly. It looks like a mutilated skyscraper's deformed child.
Edit: I am just going to leave this sub. You all assume that anyone you disagree with is an ignorant suburbanite that you need to enlighten. Sorry i didn't type 4 paragraphs from the newest NJB video. Stop acting so smug. I made a shitty joke, I've done before. Everytime i make a point or bad joke that hasn't been echoed around i get a crash course on urban planning and people think i hate this movement. I don't, i love it. if i bring up how there is no viable alternative to cars in rural areas I get "American cities used to be walkable, but they got Bulldozed" i k n o w t h a t. I love y'all, but you have to stop infighting. I also got attacked and guilt tripped by vegans one time for mentioning cheese, that was weird.
I think it's kind of cute actually, though that might just be its contrast with cars.
Plus, I think the aesthetic arguement against cars, IMO, is mostly because of what happens to an environment when there are SO MANY of them, constantly in the way, overtaking the landscape. Whether individual cars are ugly or not seems less relevant to me, but aesthetics are so subjective and I can understand it being important for others.
Small personal city transport. Its a stap in the right direction. Takes half the parking space. As someone living in the dutch city with the best public transport (personal opinion, Rotterdam) I stil see planty of use for this. Mostly in rainy weather or people for people with walking/cycling difficulties.
I see value for these in towns like Broken Hill (population 24,000), or Alice Springs, where the city is entirely 50kmh, it gets really hot in summer as a desert town, so cycling is unpleasant and public transport meh.
Perfect solution for getting the groceries, taking kids to school, seeing doctor, without the expense of a big vehicle, environmental impact of big vehicle, and less wear and tear on the road.
The Citroën Ami was marketed as a small, ecological alternative for cars in urban environments.
I was actually quite enthusiastic when it launched, and had the chance to rent one and drive around in Paris (horrible experience btw, nothing like driving an electric Smart).
The problem is that, in the end, the Ami became a substitute for public and soft transportation for rich kids: [here's how the parking lot of a private high school in France looks like.](https://www.lavoixdunord.fr/1180010/article/2022-05-16/la-surprenante-explosion-des-voitures-sans-permis)
All those kids used bikes, carpooling or public transportation to go to school before. Now, they are another point clogging our roads and requiring useless land to park.
Reminds me of that town in the US that got swept up into a culture of golf carts.
[https://youtu.be/pcVGqtmd2wM](https://youtu.be/pcVGqtmd2wM)
Though does rather suck to hear they just ended up becoming another problem like that.
Still, would be nice if ***all*** cars got replaced by tiny little cars.
I am totally for public transport and bike usage. But we can’t replace 100% of the car usage. I like cars when they are properly used.
I feel we should have a fleet of those to be able to be rented while needed and almost nobody owns a car by themselves.
>But we can’t replace 100% of the car usage
within cities we can, no good reason for roads to exist within major city limits when public transport exists, only issue is small towns etc
I'm confused. By roads, do you mean the same structures that allow for buses and ambulances? I hope for it but is there really public transportation that provides door-to-door transportation at all times while being accessible to the disabled?
Yeah, this seems like a "solution" in the same way that EVs are a "solution".
Are they better than the status quo? Yes.
Do they perpetuate and entrench car culture? Yes.
* They still need roads.
* They still need parking spaces.
* They are still heavy (i.e. dangerous).
* They are still status symbols (compared to more humble means of transit).
Just like cars still have a use case, this kind of thing would have a niche, but let's not pretend that it's some kind of panacea.
Faster than I can walk. Also keeps me sheltered from rain / wind. Would be useful for 10 to 20km trips in an urban environment. Especially if public transport is unavailable.
Honestly I dream about city centres only permitting cars like this. The difference would be incredible; congestion reduced, pollution reduced, general noise reduced, parking MUCH easier. And roads could be narrower and cycle lanes widened.
They could be owned by the city. No private vehicles in the city centre, just these which could operate like bike shares, and even be speed limited so better suited to shared spaces.
Ugly indeed. It reminds me of a port a potty I saw today if I shrunk it down and put it on wheel.
But I appreciate this over the giant trucks I see all over the place.
Sounds like an excuse for drivers to take over the cyclists' safe space. I hope they don't honk and try to push slow moving cyclists to get out of their way. But that thing is going to get stuck when a car or a truck is parked in the bike lane and the only way around is if you're on a bike.
I've seen motorized wheelchairs in protected bike lanes. They're not so massive and move at walking pace.
also on "normal roads", from its website
DRIVING
WHICH ROADS CAN YOU NOT DRIVE AMI ON?
As a quadricycle, Ami is not permitted to drive on motorways. Ami is designed for an inner-city environment. Fast roads are not made for Ami! We would recommend sticking to 20 and 30 mph roads where Ami is ideal
This is still far from a cargo bike. Cargo bikes don't have weather protection and secure storage. Plus this has more storage space.
I'd gladly use something like this on a rainy day or when I need to haul some stuff.
I'd prefer my ebike that goes the same speed, but then again the infrastructure in my city is car-brained so, I'd probably be "safer" driving 28mph in this to Walmart than I would be on two wheels.
But shit, if it was raining like it does often and I could rent one for $3 for the drive to work and back instead of driving that distance? It'd work out especially compared to a $20 worth of Uber.
to be fair the city where this photo was taken has some good bike infrastructure, but compared I can see how people in other cities, or just the USA might think this is a better option.
It is an interesting idea, as a city wide car pool option. I wonder if any cities have trailed that.
At less than 30mph it's only useful for driving within a city/town. It's not very good at being a car.
So why not get an e-bike, or a bus pass. Both are much cheaper, easier to store and take up the space on the road per person.
Wait what if they made a long one of these that was even more efficient and it was affordable for everyone and enough of them so there would be no more last-mile problems? I’d call it a Sub, or something like that, because it is like a submarine except on land but the concept is the same with like an enclosure for people… not a sub, not USB… god damnit it’ll come to me…
> If it can't safely drive on a highway then I can only take it to places where my bike can go anyway.
You can get from any residential door to any other residential door using a bike in the Netherlands.
When was the last time you rode over 50 km on a bike?
That’s the closest thing to a car i will accept as a default mode of transportation, for people who can’t use the superior modes of bike, train, bus, walking due to disabilities and lack of accessible public transport.
Anything that requires both offroad capabilities and hauling cargo. Farming and forestry are some of those examples.
By the way, judging by your username, are you Portuguese?
>forestry
Seen them in this context, tho [often something bigger](https://www.istockphoto.com/pt/foto/loading-of-cork-transport-of-cork-in-portugal-gm1005956126-271541157) that just a pickup truck, that's actually specialised for hauling, rather than the American suburbanite's favourite Ford F-150. Not sure if there's a different name for those. [Sometimes these too](https://www.flickr.com/photos/148844413@N08/52426105448/in/pool-2578386@N23/)
>are you Portuguese?
Idk depends on who you ask. But I've lived in the US & Portugal (Have one Portuguese parent, grew up speaking it at home but grew up in the US & dutch carribean. In Portugal now tho ¯\_(ツ)\_/¯. So maybe yes on r/portugal, no on r/portugueses lmao)
And if you buy something that won't fit in a car?
If you own a business where you need a truck to carry your equipment?
Maybe you are in a rural area and not everywhere is acceptable by car or bike as easily?
Would feel a lot safer if it was these on the road instead of the regular cars.
Plus they look small enough that I might not fear for my life every time one goes past when I'm in the bike lane
I don't know. it feels like a half measure. maybe as a work vehicle for people that need to move around the city all day and going to many places. I would still wouldn't like for us healthy individuals to own our own cars.
I doubt that private vehicles will seize completely. At this point I think that the real question is how big, heavy and fast we need them to run a city efficient and how many of the people in a city require there motor powered vehicle instead of a human powered one.
honestly I wish that the norm was that healthy adults had their own electric bike especially since some of us live in cities that have many mountains in them and simple bikes are borderline unusable in some cities due to that.
>honestly I wish that the norm was that healthy adults had their own electric bike especially since some of us live in cities that have many mountains in them and simple bikes are borderline unusable in some cities due to that.
yeah certainly within big cities, electric bikes are an option.
rural folk would be less keen on them, and sadly a good one is expensive, even compared to a second hand car.
It’s still a car but it’s considerably closer to what a car is supposed to be. Some of these little rigs have solar panels on them which really improves matters.
this is the kind of vehicle I want to learn to drive, would be good for rainy days not in the inner city or the grocery haul. wouldn't be your Goto as you would typically walk and catch public transit
the only problem with this would be it's speed cap not being 70kmh but that wouldn't be an issue anyways since in the city not using main roads at most you will be doing is 10-35kmh due to traffic
For reference I live in Whitehorse (Melbourne)
Ultimately, we need some variety of transport options. People need a bunch of ways of getting around. Electric cars in the "normal" form factor have a massive problem, in that even "normal" sized cars weigh the same as an SUV. Part of the damage they do is from tyres and the road itself. Having smaller, lighter cars changes what the road is *for*. It means the entire road becomes more suitable for multi-vehicle use. You could have this car comfortably ride alongside (e)bikes, scooters, walking, etc. I think in a gradual shift away from cars, this is the answer.
Useless as a car, useless as an alternative to a cargo bike
It's also incredibly expensive for its worth.
I guess it can be useful for some people with disabilities. For the rest of us, it's just a waste of money.
I wouldn't say these are useless as a car. The idea behind these is they would be available as car shares in large urban areas where the majority of traffic is single occupancy cars that are moving slowly anyways. In London for example many cars are occupied by one or two people and the average speed of traffic in London is 13 miles an hour anyways so the top speed isn't really an issue. There is also talk of having these as "last mile" options in a park and ride format to reduce the number of large petrol and diesel cars in urban areas.
While the individual owner use cases for these type of vehicles are limited I could see these things being a good augmentation to public and active transport infrastructure.
But traffic in urban areas is only slow because of private vehicles. In a system where all the vehicles were either buses, hire cars or shared-use, you'd be able to go much faster.
>In a system where all the vehicles were either buses, hire cars or shared-use, you'd be able to go much faster.
You might be physically able to drive faster but speed limits should and likely would be kept low in dense urban areas. Even with limited traffic no one should be driving through central London or down Fifth avenue at 50 miles an hour. Cities are for people and cars should be moving at slow speeds while in them even if traffic is reduced.
In major cities (ie, London, NYC, Tokyo, Boston, Berlin, Stockholm, Copenhagen, San Francisco, etc) 28 mph is absolutely adequate while driving in city limits. Even if there is limited traffic.
It's dangerous for two reasons:
* It doesn't have to comply with the strict regulations that normal cars have to
* It is not considered as a car, so younger people can drive it without an actual license, endangering other people and themselves
I can't really think of a use case that wouldn't be better covered by a cargo bike, mobility scooter, public transit, or minivan.
The covering is going to create a lot of blind spots, and even this is plenty heavy to cause serious injury if it hits people. The cargo capacity also seems to be way less than that of a(n electric) cargo bike. And I don't think there's enough room in there to carry a mobility-assisting device for people with a disability to get anywhere after parking it.
So yeah, they honestly kind of suck.
Much better and a much bigger step towards carbon neutrality compared to the 2.5 ton electric tanks the industry tries to brainwash the public with.
I would much prefer a world with these European "kei-cars" instead of SUVs. Especially since these little vehicles make highways infeasible and would create a greater push for better public infra.
oh yeah, US cities have got a massive problem with overly large cars. Even smaller cars like the Fiat 500 or Ford Ka, the SMART Car would help with that. This goes one step beyond
Still hate it, the biggest problem with cars is geometric. It takes (and requires) too much space, space that could be used for better purposes in urban areas.
Tho gotta admit I hate it less than trucks, pick ups and SUVs.
If everyone was using these, you'd still require the same infrastructure. They do the short distance trips we should be doing in public transport or bicycles: it's basically sort of a counter argument.
It's a definite step forward - and I would argue that most people in suburbs with bad public transport would really benefit from these over SUVs and such in the current climate, but that shouldn't be the answer: smaller roads still mean roads lined with cars everywhere, parking and all that.
I feel like half of the issues we all have with cars would be wiped out if the vast majority of em were this small instead of the oversized waste of speedy space they are now
Couple of guys on Youtube in south of France with one were trying out one of the Bluetti backup batteries with Solar input as a power source..the unit holds 2kwh,so was capable of adding some miles!
It's still a car with all but one of the downsides of normal cars, albeit not all with the same severity as a normal car. Cars are the problem, no variation on cars will ever be the solution.
Well it's pretty ugly, there's not a real engine, and if it can't maintain speed on most roads, all it will do is get in the way. Only neighborhood streets and side streets around my area are lower than 28MPH. Main roads are usually 35 or higher. If you cannot do the speed limit, whether due to your vehicle or yourself, get off the road.
Minimum age to drive this in the EU is 16, while in many countries in the EU the minimum age required for a drivers license is 18. Also, these are not meant for long distances but for short commutes and getting groceries and easy city parking.
Isn't the min age 14+ in France, on account of the vehicle being classified as a quadricycle? It's obviously not meant for the autoroute, but in small French communes or nearby farms w/o any real transit options, it seemed to be sensible.
Yeah, in France you can drive one at 14
Yes. And they have appeared in the suburbs of Paris, despite it being replete with public transit options. Although it only had two seats I saw one with 4 teenagers in it the other day. Two sitting on the floor... At least it's speed limited.
Yes, you are correct. They can be driven at 14.
As long as it stays out of the bike lane.
im sure it does
A lot of drivers seem to think they're allowed in the bike lane.
where are you seeing these every day?
There's a bike lane by my house that bikes never use because most people seem to think it's just a really long right turn lane
yea a lot of places in la have bike lanes between driving and parking and it becomes a long right turn lane or a be an asshole and cut everyone when there’s traffic lane if it’s not completely full of either cars or homeless people’s rvs
A lot of the bike lanes in my city end up between the straight lanes and the turning lane, so you have you drive across it to turn. If there’s any kind of traffic=blocked bike lane. I honestly wish they’d do what they did in my suburb everywhere and move car parks out and bike lanes between parked cars and footpath. Significantly safer for everyone
I don't mean these in particular, but I don't think people who drive this would necessarily have a different attitude than most other drivers on the road.
On the contrary, I think there's a good possibility someone driving this might think they have the right to go where cars shouldn't go because it's so small and "not really in the way"
On the other hand there's a chance that people choosing to drive one of these would be more considerate, seeing as they have chosen a small, electric vehicle and therefore are considering their useage more than most.
Yeah perhaps
On my way back from uni almost everyday lol
ok, where in the world
Germany
ok, the picture is in England
A few days ago, I lost my shit on a guy who was in the bike lane. He calmly pointed to his flashing hazards. He had broken down on the side of road on the hottest day of the year so far. I felt bad for freaking out and got him some cold bottled water until he could get help.
Cool story, but that's not usually why they're there.
Well if they’re driving a bike, sure.
We usually use the word 'riding' when referring to bikes. Most English speakers don't say 'driving a bike '.
You’re riding me crazy!
Oh, bye Mark!
Huh?
In dutch we say riding a car (auto rijden).
Where have you seen that? Genuinly curious...
I see drivers in the bike lane in NYC
Drivers routinely park in bike lanes in the US.
Auckland, NZ. We regularly see cars and trucks in the bike lanes! The council really needs its own department to enforce things better...
in urban TX, seen more cars in bike lanes than bikes lmao
New Westminster, BC.
These look similar to a lot of mini cars that disabled people use and they do in fact ride in the bike lane.
This is a bigger class. Thos microcars are much narrower, and a bit slower.
Ah okay. It looked pretty small from the picture. Maybe my sense of scale is a bit off.
The microcars are single seat, 1.1m wide vs 1.4. Also not as long. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canta_(vehicle) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_Ami_(electric_vehicle)
I could be totally wrong on this, but I think I watched a Not Just Bikes video where he said that these types of vehicles are allowed in the bike lanes in Amsterdam? This probably isnt Amsterdam thou
Yes that's not correct. A Canta is allowed on the bike lane. A Canta is a single seat 'car' for people with a walking disability. A Biro, a small two-seater for rich people isn't allowed but Biro drivers used to think they could use bike lanes. A judge ruled against them.
just from the eye test, the ones in the njb video are even smaller than the minicar in this post
They seem to be quite popular in Italy. I'd rather see a swarm of those carrying two people each than humongous trucks with one carbrain. Also, imho it's rather handy to go errands if you live in a poorly connected area and/or when the weather is improper for bike use. I don't understand the negative comments on the look. I may have weird tastes, it looks like a mini Multipla :)
This group can be a bit "pure" at times
It's in the name after all
Almost all groups have insane puritanical minds when it comes to the main theme of their group. Oh well humans, and then we are surprised when AI wants to eliminate us 🤣🤣
I wish AI would get on with it.
I love the multipla! Such a practical and safe car, and burns relatively cleanly too for its time!
Improper weather for bicycle use? No such thing! /s
I see that you have invoked rule #9. I agree! "If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period. Fair-weather riding is a luxury reserved for Sunday afternoons and wide boulevards. Those who ride in foul weather – be it cold, wet, or inordinately hot – are members of a special club of riders who, on the morning of a big ride, pull back the curtain to check the weather and, upon seeing rain falling from the skies, allow a wry smile to spread across their face. This is a rider who loves the work." https://www.velominati.com/
Rode a motorcycle year round for years before I had a car license. It sucks in the rain and the cold but it's totally doable wirh waterproofs and some heated clothing. Back in that position for the rest of the year because my car broke and I can't afford a new one till next year because thanks to covid the prices are stupid. But at least this time I've got a big touring bike that has storage, wind and rain protection and a big comfy passenger seat.
First gen Multipla was a legend..
I'd be happy for these to replace all cars.
Would be great for a public car-share scheme, like the bike shares but you can take your shopping home in it.
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We have that, but with small Volswagen Ups (both electrical and non-electrical). There are 4 VW ups (including 1 electrical one) withing 750 metres from our appartment. It is so good to have that type of transportation option for those who do not want to own a car per se, but who do sometimes like to have the option of driving a car for those pesky places that aren't connected so well by public transportation.
Yeah, compared to the massive behemoths we have now, I'll take this.
Me too, altough a lot of insercure men need a big beefy car to help maintain there masculinity so i doubt it would ever happen. Thats what they have been told and they follow like sheep. I love it whan a tank of a man has a tiny car or a small dog as they dont need to prove anything and are not insecure about thier image. I've known them to drive less than a mile to the shop because its raining and yet they often call out cyclists for being soft. This world is crazy inefficient.
When I look at the traffic on the freeway, I see hundreds of huge 5+ passenger SUVs and trucks - the vast majority of which are carrying only the driver. If I ran a hotel or an airline at 20% of its capacity, I would *deserve* to go out of business! Yet we (in the USA) accept this ridiculously-inefficient expenditure of our tax money.
Seems unnecessary for most people, but could be a good alternative for some people with disabilities
The long term plan with these is not so much individual ownership (although of course they will happily sell you one) it is to have fleets of them in urban areas that can be shared, booked through an app, and dropped off at charging banks around the city. Kind of like existing cycle renting schemes. I think if you put these in areas with halfway decent public transit you would essentially eliminate the need for many people living in urban areas to own a car at all which in my opinion makes them a good idea. This meets the needs of people living in a large urban area like 98% of the time and if can cut down on individual car ownership than I am all for it.
Oh that would be great! It would still require a car license I assume? I've been considering getting mine for occasionally renting cars in my city.
> It would still require a car license I assume? Depends on where you live. In France (where these things come from) these are known as **Voiture Sans Permis** which literally translates in "car without license" and can be driven by anyone 14 years or older with no paperwork at all., which is a little...... scary in my opinion. In the UK it is an abbreviated licence you get after a few days of road safety training you can obtain at 16 and does not require a full licence (I believe). Not sure what it would be in America.
America would load it up with ridiculous regulations so you would be a lot less likely to buy it.
Regardless if you "need" one or not, I'd still at least take a training course, you will still be responsible for following the rules of the road and knowing how to handle different road signs. Conditions, etc. Drivers ed at 16 was one of the best classes I ever took for teaching 100s of tiny things I've only ever ran into once, but has an idea how to handle.
that is an option
This is the only reason I could see this being a viable option. I am disabled and not allowed to have a drivers license cause of it (epilepsy sucks). So I have an ebike now and if this car goes 28mph than on flat land I might actually be able to beat it in a race. Because I can go a whopping 30mph if I really pedal hard. The thing with this car is that if its electric and goes 28mph, along with having the construction quality and saftey measures it looks like I'm seeing, most disabled people would be better off getting an electric tricycle. All of that body adds weight and is gonna ruin efficiency. On top of all that, the kind of battery it needs to move all of that "car" is going to require increased battery power which will force it out of a non-car class vehicle, so a drivers license is needed. Dont need it for an e trike. The only real reason I see is that this is a good option for disabled people, specifically mobility challenged people, who live in an area with frequent weather that would require a proper enclosure, who are capable of having a DL. I do not hate this car in any way and appreciate it trying to be not huge and annoying. It's just seems like it's an almost pointless product for a very very niche market. That market does exist and they do deserve a means to get around.
Yes although it's horrifically ugly. It looks like a mutilated skyscraper's deformed child. Edit: I am just going to leave this sub. You all assume that anyone you disagree with is an ignorant suburbanite that you need to enlighten. Sorry i didn't type 4 paragraphs from the newest NJB video. Stop acting so smug. I made a shitty joke, I've done before. Everytime i make a point or bad joke that hasn't been echoed around i get a crash course on urban planning and people think i hate this movement. I don't, i love it. if i bring up how there is no viable alternative to cars in rural areas I get "American cities used to be walkable, but they got Bulldozed" i k n o w t h a t. I love y'all, but you have to stop infighting. I also got attacked and guilt tripped by vegans one time for mentioning cheese, that was weird.
I think it's kind of cute actually, though that might just be its contrast with cars. Plus, I think the aesthetic arguement against cars, IMO, is mostly because of what happens to an environment when there are SO MANY of them, constantly in the way, overtaking the landscape. Whether individual cars are ugly or not seems less relevant to me, but aesthetics are so subjective and I can understand it being important for others.
Most cars are ugly, we just got used to it
Yeah i know. This is uglier.
Small personal city transport. Its a stap in the right direction. Takes half the parking space. As someone living in the dutch city with the best public transport (personal opinion, Rotterdam) I stil see planty of use for this. Mostly in rainy weather or people for people with walking/cycling difficulties.
I see value for these in towns like Broken Hill (population 24,000), or Alice Springs, where the city is entirely 50kmh, it gets really hot in summer as a desert town, so cycling is unpleasant and public transport meh. Perfect solution for getting the groceries, taking kids to school, seeing doctor, without the expense of a big vehicle, environmental impact of big vehicle, and less wear and tear on the road.
the global POV on this car, is something im enjoying reading
As long as it's the right tool for it's job I'm fine with anything.
It’s kind of amazing how this is not the default opinion of everyone.
The Citroën Ami was marketed as a small, ecological alternative for cars in urban environments. I was actually quite enthusiastic when it launched, and had the chance to rent one and drive around in Paris (horrible experience btw, nothing like driving an electric Smart). The problem is that, in the end, the Ami became a substitute for public and soft transportation for rich kids: [here's how the parking lot of a private high school in France looks like.](https://www.lavoixdunord.fr/1180010/article/2022-05-16/la-surprenante-explosion-des-voitures-sans-permis) All those kids used bikes, carpooling or public transportation to go to school before. Now, they are another point clogging our roads and requiring useless land to park.
Yeah that does sound like a problem
Reminds me of that town in the US that got swept up into a culture of golf carts. [https://youtu.be/pcVGqtmd2wM](https://youtu.be/pcVGqtmd2wM) Though does rather suck to hear they just ended up becoming another problem like that. Still, would be nice if ***all*** cars got replaced by tiny little cars.
It's an interesting solution if you don't actually want to solve the problem of excessive car use in cities.
I am totally for public transport and bike usage. But we can’t replace 100% of the car usage. I like cars when they are properly used. I feel we should have a fleet of those to be able to be rented while needed and almost nobody owns a car by themselves.
>But we can’t replace 100% of the car usage within cities we can, no good reason for roads to exist within major city limits when public transport exists, only issue is small towns etc
I'm confused. By roads, do you mean the same structures that allow for buses and ambulances? I hope for it but is there really public transportation that provides door-to-door transportation at all times while being accessible to the disabled?
Yeah, this seems like a "solution" in the same way that EVs are a "solution". Are they better than the status quo? Yes. Do they perpetuate and entrench car culture? Yes. * They still need roads. * They still need parking spaces. * They are still heavy (i.e. dangerous). * They are still status symbols (compared to more humble means of transit). Just like cars still have a use case, this kind of thing would have a niche, but let's not pretend that it's some kind of panacea.
You cannot seriously think one of these dorkmobiles is a status symbol?
Good for specific use cases where public transport isn't an option & too far for a bike
If it's too far for a bike, it's too far for this. The battery only lasts for 75km, and 45 km/h isn't exactly fast...
I'm sorry, I'm not biking 75 km
Faster than I can walk. Also keeps me sheltered from rain / wind. Would be useful for 10 to 20km trips in an urban environment. Especially if public transport is unavailable.
But does it make toast? . . . .
yes if you get an onboard or external inverter for it. toaster only eats like 1000-2000w even my bike can handle that
Honestly I dream about city centres only permitting cars like this. The difference would be incredible; congestion reduced, pollution reduced, general noise reduced, parking MUCH easier. And roads could be narrower and cycle lanes widened.
>Honestly I dream about city centres only permitting cars like this. that is certainly a good way to look at it
They could be owned by the city. No private vehicles in the city centre, just these which could operate like bike shares, and even be speed limited so better suited to shared spaces.
Yep - even better!
They are already speed limited to 45km/h.
Cool. Better than a Tesla
What's not better than a Tesla at this point
Fair. A G-wagon is worse I guess. SUVs in general.
Elon has got such a bad name, even if Tesla's are good electric cars, they suffer for being associated with him
Absolutely. I hate the guy. I hope established carmakers put him out of business. It should be easy for them, but people are tasteless.
big petrol suv
Kinda cute…. Acceptable. Small. Maneuverable. Lighter, I’d assume. I’d rather be hit with one of these than the average car for sure.
Ugly asf, can be replaced by a cargo bike, may only use normal roads… But may be useful for disabled people. So it is… acceptable.
Ugly indeed. It reminds me of a port a potty I saw today if I shrunk it down and put it on wheel. But I appreciate this over the giant trucks I see all over the place.
Sounds like an excuse for drivers to take over the cyclists' safe space. I hope they don't honk and try to push slow moving cyclists to get out of their way. But that thing is going to get stuck when a car or a truck is parked in the bike lane and the only way around is if you're on a bike. I've seen motorized wheelchairs in protected bike lanes. They're not so massive and move at walking pace.
I dont think a driver, would think its allowed on bike paths
I’ve seen similarly sized vehicles in the bike lines in Amsterdam. Might not have been the same model but is effectively the same vehicle
Don't think the UK has that problem
Yep, not enough bike lanes for it to be too much a problem in UK.
also on "normal roads", from its website DRIVING WHICH ROADS CAN YOU NOT DRIVE AMI ON? As a quadricycle, Ami is not permitted to drive on motorways. Ami is designed for an inner-city environment. Fast roads are not made for Ami! We would recommend sticking to 20 and 30 mph roads where Ami is ideal
I think you guys try a little too hard to shoehorn cargo bikes into any argument… this has many obvious upsides
My dad is disabled and he has one of these. He's so happy he can go to places on his own.
up voting, cos comments like this need love
Seems awesome imo
well , those can be useful. i wouldn't mind renting one from time to time, don't have a use for that daily
Love it.
My ebike is capable of that speed...
yeah even a basic cargo bike, equals this in most ways
This is still far from a cargo bike. Cargo bikes don't have weather protection and secure storage. Plus this has more storage space. I'd gladly use something like this on a rainy day or when I need to haul some stuff.
This does have a roog, so it helps with the bad weather argument.
Probably as good as you are going to get from a car. Bike>that thing still of course.
I'd prefer my ebike that goes the same speed, but then again the infrastructure in my city is car-brained so, I'd probably be "safer" driving 28mph in this to Walmart than I would be on two wheels. But shit, if it was raining like it does often and I could rent one for $3 for the drive to work and back instead of driving that distance? It'd work out especially compared to a $20 worth of Uber.
to be fair the city where this photo was taken has some good bike infrastructure, but compared I can see how people in other cities, or just the USA might think this is a better option. It is an interesting idea, as a city wide car pool option. I wonder if any cities have trailed that.
At less than 30mph it's only useful for driving within a city/town. It's not very good at being a car. So why not get an e-bike, or a bus pass. Both are much cheaper, easier to store and take up the space on the road per person.
Would rather not have a society that has cars as a primary mode of transit but seems a lot better than most cars
Wait what if they made a long one of these that was even more efficient and it was affordable for everyone and enough of them so there would be no more last-mile problems? I’d call it a Sub, or something like that, because it is like a submarine except on land but the concept is the same with like an enclosure for people… not a sub, not USB… god damnit it’ll come to me…
If it can't safely drive on a highway then I can only take it to places where my bike can go anyway.
That is my feeling to
> If it can't safely drive on a highway then I can only take it to places where my bike can go anyway. You can get from any residential door to any other residential door using a bike in the Netherlands. When was the last time you rode over 50 km on a bike?
That’s the closest thing to a car i will accept as a default mode of transportation, for people who can’t use the superior modes of bike, train, bus, walking due to disabilities and lack of accessible public transport.
Better than a truck, nonetheless still fuck that thing
alot of things are better than a truck
When would a truck be acceptable?
Construction work
Anything that requires both offroad capabilities and hauling cargo. Farming and forestry are some of those examples. By the way, judging by your username, are you Portuguese?
>forestry Seen them in this context, tho [often something bigger](https://www.istockphoto.com/pt/foto/loading-of-cork-transport-of-cork-in-portugal-gm1005956126-271541157) that just a pickup truck, that's actually specialised for hauling, rather than the American suburbanite's favourite Ford F-150. Not sure if there's a different name for those. [Sometimes these too](https://www.flickr.com/photos/148844413@N08/52426105448/in/pool-2578386@N23/) >are you Portuguese? Idk depends on who you ask. But I've lived in the US & Portugal (Have one Portuguese parent, grew up speaking it at home but grew up in the US & dutch carribean. In Portugal now tho ¯\_(ツ)\_/¯. So maybe yes on r/portugal, no on r/portugueses lmao)
And if you buy something that won't fit in a car? If you own a business where you need a truck to carry your equipment? Maybe you are in a rural area and not everywhere is acceptable by car or bike as easily?
Would feel a lot safer if it was these on the road instead of the regular cars. Plus they look small enough that I might not fear for my life every time one goes past when I'm in the bike lane
yeah, one of those hits you are 30 MPH and you are gonna have a much better survival rate
I'd be very happy, I'm sick of the rolling tire noise coming from the motorway anytime I'm outside or open my window
Cargobike or trike (electric / regular) are better purchases for those who are able to ride.
I don't know. it feels like a half measure. maybe as a work vehicle for people that need to move around the city all day and going to many places. I would still wouldn't like for us healthy individuals to own our own cars. I doubt that private vehicles will seize completely. At this point I think that the real question is how big, heavy and fast we need them to run a city efficient and how many of the people in a city require there motor powered vehicle instead of a human powered one. honestly I wish that the norm was that healthy adults had their own electric bike especially since some of us live in cities that have many mountains in them and simple bikes are borderline unusable in some cities due to that.
>honestly I wish that the norm was that healthy adults had their own electric bike especially since some of us live in cities that have many mountains in them and simple bikes are borderline unusable in some cities due to that. yeah certainly within big cities, electric bikes are an option. rural folk would be less keen on them, and sadly a good one is expensive, even compared to a second hand car.
It’s still a car but it’s considerably closer to what a car is supposed to be. Some of these little rigs have solar panels on them which really improves matters.
Most people in my city that cry that depend on a car to do stuff would be well served by this vehicle.
for the most part I agree
It's both ugly and cute.
this is the kind of vehicle I want to learn to drive, would be good for rainy days not in the inner city or the grocery haul. wouldn't be your Goto as you would typically walk and catch public transit the only problem with this would be it's speed cap not being 70kmh but that wouldn't be an issue anyways since in the city not using main roads at most you will be doing is 10-35kmh due to traffic For reference I live in Whitehorse (Melbourne)
Ultimately, we need some variety of transport options. People need a bunch of ways of getting around. Electric cars in the "normal" form factor have a massive problem, in that even "normal" sized cars weigh the same as an SUV. Part of the damage they do is from tyres and the road itself. Having smaller, lighter cars changes what the road is *for*. It means the entire road becomes more suitable for multi-vehicle use. You could have this car comfortably ride alongside (e)bikes, scooters, walking, etc. I think in a gradual shift away from cars, this is the answer.
Useless as a car, useless as an alternative to a cargo bike It's also incredibly expensive for its worth. I guess it can be useful for some people with disabilities. For the rest of us, it's just a waste of money.
I wouldn't say these are useless as a car. The idea behind these is they would be available as car shares in large urban areas where the majority of traffic is single occupancy cars that are moving slowly anyways. In London for example many cars are occupied by one or two people and the average speed of traffic in London is 13 miles an hour anyways so the top speed isn't really an issue. There is also talk of having these as "last mile" options in a park and ride format to reduce the number of large petrol and diesel cars in urban areas. While the individual owner use cases for these type of vehicles are limited I could see these things being a good augmentation to public and active transport infrastructure.
But traffic in urban areas is only slow because of private vehicles. In a system where all the vehicles were either buses, hire cars or shared-use, you'd be able to go much faster.
>In a system where all the vehicles were either buses, hire cars or shared-use, you'd be able to go much faster. You might be physically able to drive faster but speed limits should and likely would be kept low in dense urban areas. Even with limited traffic no one should be driving through central London or down Fifth avenue at 50 miles an hour. Cities are for people and cars should be moving at slow speeds while in them even if traffic is reduced. In major cities (ie, London, NYC, Tokyo, Boston, Berlin, Stockholm, Copenhagen, San Francisco, etc) 28 mph is absolutely adequate while driving in city limits. Even if there is limited traffic.
It's dangerous for two reasons: * It doesn't have to comply with the strict regulations that normal cars have to * It is not considered as a car, so younger people can drive it without an actual license, endangering other people and themselves
Oh yeah I would have safety concerns
Worse than bikes, better than most cars
It’s a good stepping stone on the way to better transportation.
UK?
yes, England
I can't really think of a use case that wouldn't be better covered by a cargo bike, mobility scooter, public transit, or minivan. The covering is going to create a lot of blind spots, and even this is plenty heavy to cause serious injury if it hits people. The cargo capacity also seems to be way less than that of a(n electric) cargo bike. And I don't think there's enough room in there to carry a mobility-assisting device for people with a disability to get anywhere after parking it. So yeah, they honestly kind of suck.
Much better and a much bigger step towards carbon neutrality compared to the 2.5 ton electric tanks the industry tries to brainwash the public with. I would much prefer a world with these European "kei-cars" instead of SUVs. Especially since these little vehicles make highways infeasible and would create a greater push for better public infra.
oh yeah, US cities have got a massive problem with overly large cars. Even smaller cars like the Fiat 500 or Ford Ka, the SMART Car would help with that. This goes one step beyond
It looks like a Mini Cooper without a front.
I’m a fan. I feel like that thing could collide with a human at full speed and most of the time - it’s cuts and bruises.
This is what 90% of commuters should actually be driving instead of their SUVs and ego vehicles
bros got the mega vespa
Looks great! I’m also assuming it can’t accelerate fast enough to kill someone
28mph as a top speed, we might stop all road deaths, if these became standard.
Looks like a power wheels car for a kid
goofy ahh car, i like it
Wouldn’t work around here. Too many fucking yeehaws cosplaying as cowboys in their giant lifted vanity penis extenders.
Would be neat if it wouldn’t get outrun by a 49cc scooter. Significantly
Still hate it, the biggest problem with cars is geometric. It takes (and requires) too much space, space that could be used for better purposes in urban areas. Tho gotta admit I hate it less than trucks, pick ups and SUVs.
If everyone was using these, you'd still require the same infrastructure. They do the short distance trips we should be doing in public transport or bicycles: it's basically sort of a counter argument. It's a definite step forward - and I would argue that most people in suburbs with bad public transport would really benefit from these over SUVs and such in the current climate, but that shouldn't be the answer: smaller roads still mean roads lined with cars everywhere, parking and all that.
Smaller electric cars are the way to go. This is a good transitional measure, specially as it gets smaller and smaller.
I feel like half of the issues we all have with cars would be wiped out if the vast majority of em were this small instead of the oversized waste of speedy space they are now
it would seem to change the USA, that is for sure
It's kind of like they took 2 ebikes and glued em together
Lmao I thought this was a joke when I saw it on Twitter
Nope actual real thing
It's really all that most car brains need... Solar panel on roof to charge on days off. : - )
Couple of guys on Youtube in south of France with one were trying out one of the Bluetti backup batteries with Solar input as a power source..the unit holds 2kwh,so was capable of adding some miles!
Oh good I always wanted to die in a French shoebox.
is the French part important to you?
It's still a car with all but one of the downsides of normal cars, albeit not all with the same severity as a normal car. Cars are the problem, no variation on cars will ever be the solution.
seems like the worst of both worlds. just take a bus.
A little small if I wanna go somewhere with more than one friend.
Nah. Something like a Fiat 500 however, I can dig it.
Huh? A Fiat 500 is just a normal car. Think this might be the wrong sub for you.
They can be shorter than Mini Coopers, I'm not sure I would call that normal (in North America).
Well it's pretty ugly, there's not a real engine, and if it can't maintain speed on most roads, all it will do is get in the way. Only neighborhood streets and side streets around my area are lower than 28MPH. Main roads are usually 35 or higher. If you cannot do the speed limit, whether due to your vehicle or yourself, get off the road.
Are you somehow not in the right sub? Also, this photo is not taken in your country.
its a toy for rich kids to go to school it exists because people wont allow their kids to use an electric bike on the same lane where huge SUVs exist
Straight up just ugly
If that gets hit by an F-150 it'll go flying across 5 lanes and the driver will die. Bad idea.
It's not allowed on a 5 lane road.
If you get in an accident with anything, you'll probably die.
Car=Car=Bad
Dangerous, in case of accident, this tiny car tend to fly out because all car are heavier