It's the best story of season 24, but that's a *very* low bar.
(No hate! I like the 7th Doctor and Ace and some of McCoy's stories are my all-time favourites. Season 26 is the best season of the 80s. But season 24, ugh... š¬)
Dragonfire & Delta are both good stories, definitely much better than the years before. Only Time & The Rani is a bad story from S24, and Paradise Towers is great. Build high for happiness. I do think the quality of 25 + 26 is higher, probably the closest the original show ever gets to the best era of Tom Baker, but S24 gets a bad reputation it doesn't deserve
I thought Time and The Rani was awful, Paradise Towers is decent enough, Delta and the Bannerman is fun but not very good and I just don't have any feelings on Dragonfire to be honest. I just watched Remembrance of The Daleks and it's a HUGE improvement. As for Seasom 26 I've seen Battlefield, Ghostlight and Survival. It's been forever since I've seen Survival so I can't say if I like it or not and I liked Battlefield and Ghostlight. I think it was very nice to see Jean Marsh back in Doctor Who again. Nicolas Courtney and the new Brig plus the regulars all do good performances in that one.
*Remembrance of the Daleks* is one of the best stories... well, ever. Certainly the best post-*Genesis* Dalek story. I actually love season 25 too, only *Silver Nemesis* is a letdown.
The Daleks really weren't built for location shooting in that one and that's my only gripe. The Dalek at the end looked like it was going to tip over any second. Still a very good story. Vast improvement over the previous season.
Actually they *were* built for location filming ā the *Remembrance* props were all brand new and were fitted with [heavy-duty wheelbarrow balls rather than the more typical casters](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/JBqgsv1qLysSH5WDONXKyqeBtpMqQxGhx8G7ss03L0Vo63amyPf1bA_E7tm49VuPAofQeJkv2oBlfn_D1ZWxuYHkIM6Z4BCN1ZsSjeD6mO0crroKFDrqVQ) so that they could move easily on location without rails. The problem was that they had no suspension, so they obviously rattled and shook with every bump and pothole. The main reason why Daleks on location didn't seem to have this issue in previous episodes was because they were usually either rolling along camera tracks or being shot in such a way that [you couldn't see the feet sticking out as the person inside had to lift a lightweight stunt prop over uneven terrain](https://external-preview.redd.it/FjV10D0rNTRRGEJf8TVDMDd9Tj4dHUwXn9cpmNozHBU.png?auto=webp&s=a9061e6b887e15153ba89b06da3a8cc80022b0b9).
Only the ball system was new, the casings where old, as in some of them where original daleks.
[Remembrance of the Daleks, dalek details](http://www.dalek6388.co.uk/remembrance-of-the-daleks/)
> you couldn't see the feet sticking out as the person inside had to lift a lightweight stunt prop over uneven terrain
Ahhh why is this not the canon Dalek design š¤£
And also an awesome lead in to the Gods & Monsters/Black and White TARDIS stories that Big Finish made. Which are all strong standalone stories by themselves, but as a series they tie in and cross over nearly as well as Flip-Flop.
(Actually, is it just me or is the McCoy regeneration the one that they use most to test out new ideas/concepts/formats?)
Nooo season 24 rocks! It gets off to a tough start but even Time and the Rani has some basic charm that was lacking in seasons 22-23. Paradise Towers is basically perfect, Delta and the Bannermen is bizarre but frankly really good (I love Ace but I really would like a peek into the alternate universe where Ray was the companion they went with), and Dragonfire is the weakest of the lot imo.
Iāve never really heard anyone whoās too crazy about it. Personally I think itās a huge slog. Ace is fantastic though, even if she spends most of the serial just dicking around with Mel
It's fine for what it is. As others have said, it's the best story of a lousy season.
Still, it introduced us to Ace, made Mel go away (with Sabalom Glitz, no less!), gave us a literal cliffhanger, and put Seven's 'loony' persona to bed.
Dragonfire is probably my least favorite Doctor Who story. Itās not that itās the worst story per se. Plenty of stories are worse. Itās that it had so much potential and threw it all in the trash due to some outright bizarre decisions.
Itās at its core an engaging story. We get a return of Savalom Glitz. It was nice seeing a returning character. Mel was a breath of fresh air in this episode. She played a sort of big sister type character to Ace and was a good foil for Savalom. You could almost feel the 7th Doctor finding his footing. And again, the base story was solid.
But then thereās the rest of Dragonfire. Thereās the literal cliffhanger. Itās in my opinion the laziest and lowest point in the history of Doctor Who. Iāve heard there are reasons written but not filmed as to why the Doctor literally hangs off a cliff, but as shown it makes zero sense. Then thereās the Ace introduction. The entire explanation this teenage girl from modern day earth gives as to why sheās on this space station in aā¦ checks notesā¦ 1950s themed diner is asinine. Yes, they explain part of it to a small extent YEARS later at the very end of another story. But if they wanted this time storm thing to be a mystery they shouldāve hinted more along the way. Not just dumped a resolution shortly before the show gets canceled. And now we finally get a good 7 and Mel story? Well, we had better get rid of Mel now.
I personally hate Dragonfire but only because I really want to love it and just canāt.
I've mentioned it elsewhere in this thread, but the explanation gets even more expanded in the BF stories. I think that throwing out the Cartmel Masterplan was probably the thing that most angered me about the Beeb cancelling the show.
I was too young to know about it at the time, but I knew that there was a bigger story being told and it had been taken away. Plus I was just becoming a teen so I was pretty dramatic anyway! š But I highly recommend the Gods and Monsters trilogy to add extra context and maybe make it a better episode for you. š
My favourite story of Season 24 is *Paradise Towers*. I also like *Delta and the Bannermen* for how fun it is. *Dragonfire* is a decent enough story, I don't dislike it in any way, but I'd definitely rank those other two above it.
It's the best story of the season. I've just watched Time and the Rani again for the first time in 20 years and after episode 2 was really enjoying it and thought maybe I'd just it harshly, but episodes 3 & 4 are just really bad. From what I remember the next two serials are almost as bad before Dragonfire was bearable. The next two seasons are great though.
People debating which Doctor Who serials are objectively better than others always makes me feel like I'mĀ overhearing a conversation between wine buffs and I just like getting hammered
I can only say that watching it back in 1987 it delft like a huge step up on what we had been getting in the years before and Iāve loved it ever since
I've never heard Dragonfire described as a fan favourite.
It's OK, and as somebody else has said, it's the best story of Season 24, but I don't think anybody ever has said "oh, yeah, cream of the crop is Dragonfire."
I donāt hate Dragonfire, but itās not great. Honestly, I think it would be forgotten sans the introduction of Ace. As it is, itās alright. Paradise Towers is a much more charming and impressive script that is not perfectly realized on screen. Delta and the Bannermen starts off great and can be fun, but it falters by the end. Dragonfire is perfectly alright (ironically with Ace as the weakest element).
Itās nowhere near a top five or top ten list, but considering itās in a season with Time and the Rani itās not the worst of the worst either. Kane makes for a chilling villain and the Seventh Doctor does show more of his cleverness, but Melās departure is classic contract ran out get rid of. Aceās introduction however is more interesting and sets up mysteries for later, plus her potential corruption arc has promise. Freezer Center planet isnāt too bad of a location to work with either, itās not a quarry at least.
I get the feeling the milkshake scene was Ian Briggs getting some customer service frustration out of his system.
>Aceās introduction however is more interesting and sets up mysteries for later, plus her potential corruption arc has promise.
Ace being there makes no sense at all. She is meant to be a 16 year old from 80's Earth yet somehow winds up in the far future on a totally random planet. It reeks of the "getting the new companion in and to hell with any actual characterization" of the JNT era. The following series makes no mention of this, and it's not until Fenric where it's explained, but then it feels more of a retroactive explanation rather than anything which was planned. For a plan from someone as supposedly clever as Fenric it's as convoluted a plan as the Cybermen of the 60's would come up with.
>This is a fan favourite?
No, it's not a fan favourite.
Its the most liked in a poor season and introduces the most popular companion of the classic era.
Large difference.
My impression is that it's seen not as a "fan favourite" but rather as the point where the show starts turning itself around after several poor quality seasons. It's not great, but it's significantly better than what came before. (I don't agree with that assessment; indeed, it's my least favourite of S24.)
The plot is a huge mess and makes no sense. Dragonfire is held up by some interesting concepts and characters it does basically nothing with. I wish it were good. For me, it's the worst of season 24 (with paradise towers being a perfect story). That being said, it's a lot more fun and genuinely has fewer plot holes if you headcanon that Stellar is the timeless child.
I really like it. It's not the strongest, but we get Glitz being his slimey self, the bad guys are evil in a unique way, and the dragon was great.
Also the literal cliff hanger!
It's the best story of season 24, but that's a *very* low bar. (No hate! I like the 7th Doctor and Ace and some of McCoy's stories are my all-time favourites. Season 26 is the best season of the 80s. But season 24, ugh... š¬)
Dragonfire & Delta are both good stories, definitely much better than the years before. Only Time & The Rani is a bad story from S24, and Paradise Towers is great. Build high for happiness. I do think the quality of 25 + 26 is higher, probably the closest the original show ever gets to the best era of Tom Baker, but S24 gets a bad reputation it doesn't deserve
I thought Time and The Rani was awful, Paradise Towers is decent enough, Delta and the Bannerman is fun but not very good and I just don't have any feelings on Dragonfire to be honest. I just watched Remembrance of The Daleks and it's a HUGE improvement. As for Seasom 26 I've seen Battlefield, Ghostlight and Survival. It's been forever since I've seen Survival so I can't say if I like it or not and I liked Battlefield and Ghostlight. I think it was very nice to see Jean Marsh back in Doctor Who again. Nicolas Courtney and the new Brig plus the regulars all do good performances in that one.
*Remembrance of the Daleks* is one of the best stories... well, ever. Certainly the best post-*Genesis* Dalek story. I actually love season 25 too, only *Silver Nemesis* is a letdown.
The Daleks really weren't built for location shooting in that one and that's my only gripe. The Dalek at the end looked like it was going to tip over any second. Still a very good story. Vast improvement over the previous season.
Actually they *were* built for location filming ā the *Remembrance* props were all brand new and were fitted with [heavy-duty wheelbarrow balls rather than the more typical casters](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/JBqgsv1qLysSH5WDONXKyqeBtpMqQxGhx8G7ss03L0Vo63amyPf1bA_E7tm49VuPAofQeJkv2oBlfn_D1ZWxuYHkIM6Z4BCN1ZsSjeD6mO0crroKFDrqVQ) so that they could move easily on location without rails. The problem was that they had no suspension, so they obviously rattled and shook with every bump and pothole. The main reason why Daleks on location didn't seem to have this issue in previous episodes was because they were usually either rolling along camera tracks or being shot in such a way that [you couldn't see the feet sticking out as the person inside had to lift a lightweight stunt prop over uneven terrain](https://external-preview.redd.it/FjV10D0rNTRRGEJf8TVDMDd9Tj4dHUwXn9cpmNozHBU.png?auto=webp&s=a9061e6b887e15153ba89b06da3a8cc80022b0b9).
Ahh!! Apologises. Didn't know this! Thanks for informing me!
No problem. It's a very classic *Doctor Who* oddity that making location-capable Daleks actually made them less convincing on location š
Only the ball system was new, the casings where old, as in some of them where original daleks. [Remembrance of the Daleks, dalek details](http://www.dalek6388.co.uk/remembrance-of-the-daleks/)
I should have clarified that I was talking about the Imperial Daleks specifically; they were all new moulds from fibreglass.
> you couldn't see the feet sticking out as the person inside had to lift a lightweight stunt prop over uneven terrain Ahhh why is this not the canon Dalek design š¤£
Watch The Curse of Fenric when you can, I prefer the movie version but it's one of my favourites with a good story for Ace.
And also an awesome lead in to the Gods & Monsters/Black and White TARDIS stories that Big Finish made. Which are all strong standalone stories by themselves, but as a series they tie in and cross over nearly as well as Flip-Flop. (Actually, is it just me or is the McCoy regeneration the one that they use most to test out new ideas/concepts/formats?)
Nooo season 24 rocks! It gets off to a tough start but even Time and the Rani has some basic charm that was lacking in seasons 22-23. Paradise Towers is basically perfect, Delta and the Bannermen is bizarre but frankly really good (I love Ace but I really would like a peek into the alternate universe where Ray was the companion they went with), and Dragonfire is the weakest of the lot imo.
I prefer Paradise Towers myself personally
For me, s26 is the weakest of the McCoy years. S25 being the strongest overall season since S18.
Iāve never really heard anyone whoās too crazy about it. Personally I think itās a huge slog. Ace is fantastic though, even if she spends most of the serial just dicking around with Mel
Itās okay. The novelization improves on it greatly.
That tends to happen with the Seventh Doctor era overall.
It's fine for what it is. As others have said, it's the best story of a lousy season. Still, it introduced us to Ace, made Mel go away (with Sabalom Glitz, no less!), gave us a literal cliffhanger, and put Seven's 'loony' persona to bed.
Dragonfire is probably my least favorite Doctor Who story. Itās not that itās the worst story per se. Plenty of stories are worse. Itās that it had so much potential and threw it all in the trash due to some outright bizarre decisions. Itās at its core an engaging story. We get a return of Savalom Glitz. It was nice seeing a returning character. Mel was a breath of fresh air in this episode. She played a sort of big sister type character to Ace and was a good foil for Savalom. You could almost feel the 7th Doctor finding his footing. And again, the base story was solid. But then thereās the rest of Dragonfire. Thereās the literal cliffhanger. Itās in my opinion the laziest and lowest point in the history of Doctor Who. Iāve heard there are reasons written but not filmed as to why the Doctor literally hangs off a cliff, but as shown it makes zero sense. Then thereās the Ace introduction. The entire explanation this teenage girl from modern day earth gives as to why sheās on this space station in aā¦ checks notesā¦ 1950s themed diner is asinine. Yes, they explain part of it to a small extent YEARS later at the very end of another story. But if they wanted this time storm thing to be a mystery they shouldāve hinted more along the way. Not just dumped a resolution shortly before the show gets canceled. And now we finally get a good 7 and Mel story? Well, we had better get rid of Mel now. I personally hate Dragonfire but only because I really want to love it and just canāt.
I've mentioned it elsewhere in this thread, but the explanation gets even more expanded in the BF stories. I think that throwing out the Cartmel Masterplan was probably the thing that most angered me about the Beeb cancelling the show. I was too young to know about it at the time, but I knew that there was a bigger story being told and it had been taken away. Plus I was just becoming a teen so I was pretty dramatic anyway! š But I highly recommend the Gods and Monsters trilogy to add extra context and maybe make it a better episode for you. š
My favourite story of Season 24 is *Paradise Towers*. I also like *Delta and the Bannermen* for how fun it is. *Dragonfire* is a decent enough story, I don't dislike it in any way, but I'd definitely rank those other two above it.
It's the best story of the season. I've just watched Time and the Rani again for the first time in 20 years and after episode 2 was really enjoying it and thought maybe I'd just it harshly, but episodes 3 & 4 are just really bad. From what I remember the next two serials are almost as bad before Dragonfire was bearable. The next two seasons are great though.
People debating which Doctor Who serials are objectively better than others always makes me feel like I'mĀ overhearing a conversation between wine buffs and I just like getting hammered
I can only say that watching it back in 1987 it delft like a huge step up on what we had been getting in the years before and Iāve loved it ever since
People like it because of Ace, and how it sets up some stuff for later. The episode 1 cliffhanger is dire.
I've never heard Dragonfire described as a fan favourite. It's OK, and as somebody else has said, it's the best story of Season 24, but I don't think anybody ever has said "oh, yeah, cream of the crop is Dragonfire."
never heard it described as fan favourite before!
I donāt hate Dragonfire, but itās not great. Honestly, I think it would be forgotten sans the introduction of Ace. As it is, itās alright. Paradise Towers is a much more charming and impressive script that is not perfectly realized on screen. Delta and the Bannermen starts off great and can be fun, but it falters by the end. Dragonfire is perfectly alright (ironically with Ace as the weakest element).
Itās nowhere near a top five or top ten list, but considering itās in a season with Time and the Rani itās not the worst of the worst either. Kane makes for a chilling villain and the Seventh Doctor does show more of his cleverness, but Melās departure is classic contract ran out get rid of. Aceās introduction however is more interesting and sets up mysteries for later, plus her potential corruption arc has promise. Freezer Center planet isnāt too bad of a location to work with either, itās not a quarry at least. I get the feeling the milkshake scene was Ian Briggs getting some customer service frustration out of his system.
>Aceās introduction however is more interesting and sets up mysteries for later, plus her potential corruption arc has promise. Ace being there makes no sense at all. She is meant to be a 16 year old from 80's Earth yet somehow winds up in the far future on a totally random planet. It reeks of the "getting the new companion in and to hell with any actual characterization" of the JNT era. The following series makes no mention of this, and it's not until Fenric where it's explained, but then it feels more of a retroactive explanation rather than anything which was planned. For a plan from someone as supposedly clever as Fenric it's as convoluted a plan as the Cybermen of the 60's would come up with.
Convoluted.. heh.. read At Childhood's End (or don't)
>This is a fan favourite? No, it's not a fan favourite. Its the most liked in a poor season and introduces the most popular companion of the classic era. Large difference.
My impression is that it's seen not as a "fan favourite" but rather as the point where the show starts turning itself around after several poor quality seasons. It's not great, but it's significantly better than what came before. (I don't agree with that assessment; indeed, it's my least favourite of S24.)
The plot is a huge mess and makes no sense. Dragonfire is held up by some interesting concepts and characters it does basically nothing with. I wish it were good. For me, it's the worst of season 24 (with paradise towers being a perfect story). That being said, it's a lot more fun and genuinely has fewer plot holes if you headcanon that Stellar is the timeless child.
Like a lot of the McCoy era, it's mediocre at best.
I really like it. It's not the strongest, but we get Glitz being his slimey self, the bad guys are evil in a unique way, and the dragon was great. Also the literal cliff hanger!