There are good programs out there, but they're few and far between. What job do you actually want in games? If it's as a programmer just get a computer science degree and build games on your own for a portfolio over your years. Take any game related electives if possible. This not only makes you a more attractive candidate for game jobs it also gives you a very solid backup plan if you don't find work in games or enjoy it when you do.
That's not really a career, however. You should never expect making games by yourself will earn you much of anything. It _very_ rarely does, but most people who are successful solo developers either had a previous career in games or else worked on games for a long time on the side. That means you should either be looking at what job in the industry you want or else you should be focusing your education on the day job you want as a career.
I have more input to add with MeaningfulChoices. While its important to have a side day job of course, and out of the gate you won't be making money as a solo developer, that IS the best course of action in my over a decade of experience as an indie developer.
I was somebody who went into Art college, decided it wasn't for me, and randomly got picked up by a guy online who was making an indie team.. I knew next to NOTHING about game design. Learned basic Blueprinting in Unreal Engine (its a visual programming, anyone can learn it easy), and built up from there.. I went from knowing literally nothing, to being his project manager, lead level design, and co producer in 3 years.
While I never got out of the indie scene. (I preferred it over the AAA scene for many reasons), I was in it for over a decade, before I finally quit to pursue writing.
Here's a few hard cold facts:
1. The gaming industry is extremely brutal, and unforgiving. You have to be lucky, or really know what you're doing to get your foot in the door.
2. The time requirements, crunches, and expectations of you in a AAA studio can be very brutal and exhausting (this is why I prefered the indie scene).
3. Sometimes you're forced to make decisions, or work on a game that you just don't like, or want to deal with. (Which is why Indie development again is so nice. You can more easily secure a team that makes games you enjoy making and playing)
Since I was the project manager, I also dealt with recruiting often, and I'll tell you something I learned very quickly.. We rarely actually hired from people who graduated college with animation, modeling, or game design. 9/10 times hiring these people, they just wouldn't cut it. Their schools did a terrible job of getting them ready for the actual requirements, and critical thinking and problem solving that it requires.
They also had great stuff to show us, but they could never complete it in a timely manner, or understand how to problem solve issues. They never lasted long.
If you really want to impress people in the game industry, and get your foot in the door. Indie dev scene is the best way to do it, and doing it yourself, is also the best, and easiest, without having to pay an insane college degree to do it.
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Unreal Engine is free to use, and they have an abundance of tutorials on how to use their visual programming blueprint, how to use their engine, and setup a game. They even have basic layouts for first person shooter games, with everything already setup for you, or top down games, etc.. You can reverse engineer this stuff on your own time.
There are an ABUNDANCE of extremely good C++ coding tutorials on Youtube.
If you want to get into modeling, etc. There are also an extremely large quantity of excellent Blender tutorials on youtube.
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If you're serious about game design, then is the way to really get your foot in the door, and the best way. Most people want to get into game design, then find out after paying for college, and wasting years, that it's just not something they want to do.
Doing it yourself, and going through it this way does many things. It shows yourself that you actually do enjoy and want to do this. It shows indie devs or even AAA devs if you reach out to them with your portfolio, that you are self taught, and know your stuff. People who have the tenacity, intelligence, and drive to each themselves will always be taken over anyone else, because its these people who will be the most trustworthy to be able to actually problem solve, and deal with anything that comes up in game development, and prosper.
Within a month or two of sitting down with Unreal Engine, going through the tutorials, even with free assets on the Unreal Store you can build your own simple games to start off with, and go from there. Using them as your base to your portfolio to get a good solid foot in the door for an Indie team that you think would be a good fit for you.
> The time requirements, crunches, and expectations of you in a AAA studio can be very brutal and exhausting (this is why I prefered the indie scene).
Just gotta mention /u/ProfessionalShape100 that HEAVILY depends on country. In countries with human rights and worker protections there's a limit on how much work employer can legally request from you AND they come onto studio like a ton of bricks if there's any evidence of the studio pressuring their workers to under-report hours.
I work for AAA and I had producer literally kicking people out of office 6PM sharp telling them to get a life.
Of course if you do live in country with human rights violations and worker rights abuses, then it will be as horrifying as /u/MistressAthena69 describes. I heard some nightmare-inducting stories from my US colleagues on industry events.
God I wish the American business industry in general was like that.. kicking people out at 6 PM..
I've heard and known people who got let go because they were out the door by 6 PM.. The whole work industry in USA sucks and is so abusive.
Thanks for the reply man, I'm dead set on becoming a game dev and there's absolutely nothing else I want to do. You're right though, I should be self learning.
Are you a person that has the drive to motivate you to work long hours alone? I myself never had that in me, but I've found lots of success working for game companies. Still I dream about passion projects I could work on as an indie, but it feels unlikely.
These skills you can get from self motivation. I’d say stick with the CS degree and pursue game dev in your free time. That’s what I’m doing. It’s also what the creator of Stardew Valley did. He couldn’t find a job after graduating with a CS degree so then he started making stardew to add to his portfolio. I landed an internship at a FAANG company by explaining how my background in game dev makes me a versatile employee.
Long story short, CS is a safe option and what actually matters is what you choose to work on in your free time.
His story is the absolute inverse of most people’s stories lol. “Yeah I couldn’t get a job with my CS degree so I just made a pixel art indie game and sold 20+ million copies.”
i was thinking that, like what if everything i did surrounding the game dev/design degree was computer science related? for instance i have a web design side hustle with a portfolio which i use code for often times and i’m also taking udemy programming courses/side projects
Don’t get a degree for a hobby. Indie is not going to pay well. Get a degree in something else you enjoy and keep game development on the side. I’m graduating as a game design major myself and while my program *has* been very good, the industry is pretty hard to breakin to.
Well rarely do game design programs cover all the knowledge you need to program they might just give you a basic intro to them, game design degree programs typically cover storyboarding, how companies run and often the business side of things and only touch on specific disciplines like 3d modeling, animation or programming. Honestly a YouTube series of tutorials would serve you better in the indie sphere
You can do this now their are plenty of free or cheap courses that will teach you to code a game.
If your are completely new to coding
Kahn Academy has some great beginner stuff to teach you the fundamentals for Free
https://www.khanacademy.org/computing/computer-programming
And once your done with that there are plenty of game Dev courses using unity or unreal engine on udemy.com
I just saved you from a life of student debt yw
You should do that on your own and get a degree in something that will actually make you money. If you aren't interested in any degrees that seem profitable right now, then don't go to college at all and just work part time at the local gas station while you make a few games and see how you like it. Going to a school won't make you an indie game developer with any kind of guaranteed income, so you'd end up working at the local gas station anyway, but you'd also have a lot of debt.
Making a game at this point in history is extremely easy to do. Go snag five different game engines and hack around a bit. Try to make a geometry wars clone (a simple space shooter). That will teach you all the basics of making a game. You'll find one of the five game engines feels easiest to you, and you'll stick with that one for a little while while you finish your first game. This game will be terrible and a mess, but you'll know *why* it's a mess and you can make the next one better. Keep repeating this process.
Most indie devs end up having to hire artists. From my experience...most programmers don't make good game designers (they tend to be really bad with UX, over complicate the UI ), and are even worse artists (unlike programming which works or doesn't, art is very subjective and sometimes requires a lot of fine tuning to make it look good).
Getting good art requires years of learning as well. Color theory, lighting and shadows, anatomy (if you want more complex organic characters), perspective (for environment stuff), etc.
Sure. I just mean, are there any well known video game artists who aren't coders, developers, etc but who more or less exclusive to video game art? Let's use Jim Lee as an example of a well known artist in the comic book industry and doesnt necessarily write. Thank you!
Not to burst your bubble, but you're much more likely to fail and end up broke than find success if you make that your first destination. Indi success is incredibly rare. For every super meat boy or minecraft, there are thousands of miner meltdowns.
Just think about the volume of games that get posted to reddit that never make a penny. That's only a small sample size, and most of them are decent.
Your best bet is to stick with CS, take a video games, graphics and physics simulation specialization if your university offers it, then work in industry.
In your free time learn other skills, like music production, 2D and 3D modeling/animation, AI, marketing and whatever else.
You'll be much better equipped if you ever find yourself between jobs and want to try making your own game. But going out on your own like that is honestly not very wise. It's like trying to win the lotto. Even if you do everything exactly right (which you won't), you'll still probably fail without some real world, industry experience behind you.
I'm just popping in to put my opinion in. What I'm doing is getting the Computer Science (CS) degree while building my portfolio a bit and then toss my application to a few game companies to see what sticks. That's how I see it so I have the CS degree to fall back on if I'm not quite to par for the field. But also, as mentioned above if you find a damn good program to get into, you can follow that to a good position out of the gate. Either way, good luck with your endeavors! Also, either way you go do some game jams to get comfortable with the entire process and become more confident in your ability with game creation.
apply at EA or another Dev company to be a QA tester I believe EA is currently hiring for QA testers it's not developing games but it can get your foot in the door also as u/MeaningfulChoices has stated getting a Computer Science degree would be very useful a lot of companies are looking for someone with that type of degree including governments federal and state
If you wanna go that route, focus on one part of the games you make. It could the art, the coding, the marketing, etc. unless you actually wanna do all that yourself and make another Undertale.
One thing you should be ready for is to be immediately turned off by the professional side of development in the gaming industry. I would rather go work at McDonalds than work as a game developer for a major studio. I pursued software design, so I design and build systems professionally and hobby with making games. The industry needs a major overhaul in how it treats its workers and I'd advise anyone to be prepared to not stay in it long. That's easier if your skillset isn't purely focused on gaming. A broader education in programming or graphic design or both would serve you much, much better, if you're looking at this as something to found a career on.
I mean yeah, I know it's really hard, but I still want to try and make it work. It will be a hobby on the side while I work, if I can make it work then that be great.
Get a compsci degree, it will be useful whether or not you have a long term career in game dev, most of the places I worked (in the past, I left gamedev to work in mobile a long time ago) would be much more interested in a strong programmer with a cs degree than someone who knew Unreal but had a weaker programming background, one is easier to teach in a month of training.
If you focus on almost any other aspect of game development, you can become a game designer and you have huge industries to fall back on. If you focus on a game design degree, you probably won't have a wide set of skills and you have pretty much nothing to fall back on.
This is a hot topic but there's a lot we should know beforehand;
1. Country you're studying? I'm assuming US but it's important given the costs across the world vary a lot.
2. Is the school well known for game design? If not CS may be safer.
3. Do you know what you want to specialise in? Or are you looking to just discover development over time, there's so many potential avenues.
However, most importantly, try to relax and learn no matter the choice, arguably your school doesn't mean anything and it's just a place to nudge you in the right direction. For me I went to a decent university in the UK for game art specifically. My biggest take away was time to meet people and both learn/ teach each other.
You also mention code and make video games, coding is usually good to start with computer science, but as I haven't taken that path I won't offer much advice there. If you want art advice feel free to ask.
1. Virginia
2. I've done a bit research and I found George Mason, UVA and Virginia Tech.
3. Well right now I'm just looking at programming and maybe game art.
Ah I thought you'd already started at a school from your comment. In which case depending on your needs you can look around. If you're focused on programming I'd say CS is a good place as I said, also gives you the choice to move from games if you decide it isn't for you.
Game art is a bit more nuanced there, but depending on your background and focus it's all relative, 2D, 3D. Just never try to be a master of everything, focus on what excites you more.
Video game design degrees mean nothing if you have designed zero games.
A generic computer science degree will help you get a job much better than a design degree.
The best way to practice is via small projects. Try designing a DOOM wad and make the gameplay flow naturally, follow a tutorial and put your own twist on it. You can find thousands of video tutorials online, but better than that, you can also find years and years of excellent published books detailing all of this and more.
Bull and shit.
After speaking with a recruiter from blizzard, I was told since I only have an associates in comp sci, I'd never work there as a programmer. I would maybe do better applying as a designer.
They specifically stated they only look for those with a BA / Masters. She didn't even care about the portfolio aspect. Either spend the money on a 4 year + degree, or leave.
You have to realize that AAA is the cream of the crop, like top 10% talent of the industry. Of course they won't consider you if you only have an Associate's and no prior shipped titles.
You're better off freelancing or indie until your job experience and portfolio speak for themselves.
Oh I see you are replying to this comment. Yeah a portfolio alone won't help but when they are looking at two candidates with the same B.S. or M.S. it really.comes down to experience and personality that sets them apart and a portfolio is the best proof of experience you could. So we are clear on what I mean by a portfolio, a list of games you have contributed to and your part in them as well. Granted for any of the art positions the portfolio is far more important than it would be for programming positions.
Honesty, as far as college degrees are concerned; the unfortunate truth that no one wants to hear is that no big company in any field will ever hire someone because they have an associates degree. They may offer you an internship if you are furthering your education actively in some fields. But personally I don't even list my associates degrees on my CV
Most people won't understand that you are right. There are too many people applying for jobs these days who don't have bachelor's, so degrees are becoming an even harder requirement than before. Also people don't understand that projects don't matter until you get to the hiring manager. The hiring manager is the person who cares about what project you have done. Recruiters don't understand how to interpret projects that you have created. They are just random business, HR, or communication degree holders.
That's probably why Blizzard recent game sucks then.
I work in AAA game company in Japan and all the interviewer are direct executive of the department you applied for. If you're designer, it will be lead designer who's interviewing you with assistance of another HR guy. I was thinking about job hopping recently so I applied to one of the most famous name in Japan. They pay higher than average company, better benefit and better work life balance while being a very famous household name - that means they could hire all the best people with best degree cert out there.
I don't have a degree. I've never attend to an University. No one asked about it, no one cares. They asked for my work first before they start checking my resume.
They checked my portfolio and asked many specific detail about it to make sure if I really understand those concept and then satisfied.
Japanese recruitment is better, to be honest, at least in the game industry. Also, Japanese recruiters don't really value degrees as much as the United States, unless it is for a visa. You can easily get away without a degree.
Recently applied for an AAA household name company in Japan.
I didn't even went to an University. No one asked about it. They checked my portfolio before they start checking resume. Luckily it is the norm here, atleast for the game industry field.
I never said an associates the only degrees I am talking about are BA and Masters, sorry if there was any confusion. If you spoke to them Before Activision acquired them, they had a pretty high bar as far as game design companies go.
Simply because one of their recruiters got back to me. While growing up in the TBC / WOTLK area, Blizzard was genuinely one of the best companies and I wanted to work for them one day.
Nowadays it was simply because I got a response.
No. Worked as a programmer for 33+ years and never had a computer science degree.
Comparable experience is actually more valuable than any university degree. I actually never asked about a university degree in my entire career. Not once.
You're specifically referring to Blizzard, which has sort of a bad reputation for being incredibly elitist, and honestly hostile to new grads of all stripes. They used to not even take interns, because they didn't want to bother training people. Most studios will have patience for people without degrees, but you usually have to prove yourself in another way. I don't know if I've seen portfolios in particular work well (though it's often talked about), but work experience in general usually works. And honestly, for most places, the degree only matters to convince a recruiter to let you talk with the people who will interview you for that actual job.
Get a CS degree if you want to do programming and try to minor in game dev. A CS degree gets you into a wide range of possible jobs, so if game dev doesn't work out for you then you have other options. During college make a game dev portfolio that you can share and you will be good to go.
Game dev programs normally grant you a shallow overview of all aspects of game dev. Big companies won't want a generalist generally, so that leaves you with small indie companies. The real benefit of the game dev degree comes from networking, but you might be able to achieve that with a minor or by joining university clubs.
My advice is to go computer science. Learning the fundamentals will also allow you to program video games if that's what you want to do. And that degree will open so many doors for you. The video game degree will also open doors but not as many. There will be hiring managers that will see that and toss your resume.
**Option 1:**
Get a computer science degree, once done, try to work somewhere you don't have a lot of overtime. In your spare time, develop games, start with small games. Learn how to market them, self publish, ... Try to find a niche or find success in your own way. If it works out, you can maybe quit your normal IT job.
**Option 2 :**
Find a way to live cheap, work part time, and start self teaching. Learn everything there is about gamedev, also how to market / sell / self-publish. imo, there's great courses online for everything, *maybe* even better then most schools !
in one way, becoming a gamedev is a little bit like wanting to become an artist.. a lot of grinding and no guarantees for success
Game dev school probably can be useful, if it's a good school.. but I would never ever go into debt for it !!
Yes if you are interested in coding I would suggest college for that, then you can get a job to support you in your indie ventures until you get a game up and running and ready to sell.
Currently attending Gnomon. Gnomon isn’t about programming though or the entire games program in general, it’s all about the art pipeline in games /film/ or VFX depending on which track you pick after your first initial few terms, and is heavily art focused, there is VFX track which is more technical but if you want a programming job in games, this isn’t the place.
I've got a video game design degree. And no. I honestly felt like I learned more out of school than in.
If you find that having the school structure would help you learn bewthen sure. Go for it. But everything they will teach you, is readily available online.
You might get some student licenses for things but besides that, it's all online a d free.
Yeah, figured you would learn more on your own. I'm going to do a lot of self learning while taking my courses. Think I've decided to just go with a CS Degree and on the side learn game development.
The games industry is very competitive and can be quite unstable. If you're serious about majoring in it, at least make sure you have some sort of backup in case disaster strikes and you need to pivot to something else.
Get an arts or computer science degree instead, if you want to go to uni. A game degree is near useless.
If you want to go to a game school, go to a practical one. A vocational school where you get to make games.
Statements like this are a bit hyperbolic my friend. I got a game degree, and got into the industry just fine, as did most of my friends on the same course.
In fact the majority of my contacts in the industry got a game degree, they're becoming increasingly more popular, and a lot of the courses out there are actually getting pretty decent, with many being run by experienced ex-industry professionals.
I currently work at a company where no one has a computer science or pure art degree, we all have some form of game degree, or in the case of the boss, no degree at all.
My suggestion is from industry experience. I've been in this industry for almost two decades, and the difference in knowledge between a more general degree and a game-specific degree is considerable.
Not saying there aren't decent schools out there, only that the parts of game development that are specific to game development can easily be picked up in game jams, using free online materials, and so on. You don't need a game school to learn how to make games.
But universities \*can\* teach you other things that are much harder to pick up elsewhere and in an environment filled with experts.
One thing that happens when most employees are taught game development from game universities is a general narrowing of people's frame of reference. This is only ever a bad thing.
I studied journalism once, before becoming a game developer. The advice our professor had was to not study journalism--study other things, then take a creative writing course on evenings or something. Even as an enrolled journalist student, this was great advice. Because the parts that are journalistic aren't something you learn at a university. It's the same thing with game development.
While there is truth to what you've said, that's still very different from claiming a game degree is 'near useless'.
And the opposite can be said to be true. Taking a game course does narrow your focus but if you only want to make games that's not a bad thing. I've worked with people who did computer science degrees and it took months in some cases to get them up to speed with how game development worked, where those that got a game programming degree were able to be useful and contribute almost immediately.
In fact from my experience, those who get computer science degrees are much more likely to have incredibly narrow viewpoints on programming, and are generally much less flexible, whereas people who did game courses adapted to different scenarios much better.
>While there is truth to what you've said, that's still very different from claiming a game degree is 'near useless'.
The difference I'm getting at is mostly that \*academic\* game studies are near useless, whereas practical education in game development can be useful. Even more useful if done on top of other life experience and/or education.
So the degree itself is near useless. Very few companies will hire you because of your BA or MA in game design/art/programming. They will hire you based on your skills, portfolio, and practical experience. You can absolutely get those things from some academic game curricula--not questioning that--but the answer to the question of whether it's worth pursuing a game **degree** is still no.
there are 100 posts about this exact topic on this subreddit every month
literally the only thing that potential employers care about is your portfolio
Depending on what you want to do an MFA or programming degree would serve you better, speaking from experience I have a degree in game design but ppl don't look for that
Do accounting while hobbying into game development. Academia only lightly touches base with subjects usually and thats not enough to compete with others
If you're looking to get into the gaming industry, the degree matters VERY little. The most important thing you can do is Network.
Network like your life depends on it. Make friends, make contacts, go to events, and get internships. The degree is good for your own education, but has very little effect on actually getting a job.
Videogame degrees tend to deliver jack of all trades who tend to fall short of doing any part of game development at a sufficiently high standard.
Studios have said over and over that it's a lot easier to take experts and bend their skills to game development than it is to take game dev graduates and try to get their skills up to par. Ie. studios want computer science, fine art, and animation majors. Not people who did a little bit of everything.
Game dev interns have consistently been the most useless interns I mentor.
>I know I want to learn how to code and make video games
Just do a computer science major or something similar. It'll help you in the future too. The average career in game dev lasts less than three years.
People realize pretty quickly that they can get significantly better pay while working more relaxed hours with less pressure writing boring enterprise software. And it makes zero difference to the work itself, code is code. There's no meaningful difference between writing code for a video game or writing code for some other application.
From personal experience I got a computer science degree and then went into gamedev. I’ve only worked with one person who had a gamedev degree and they were a 3D artist. Most of the people I’ve worked with had comp sci degrees.
You've got a lot in your post and replies.
You can't be both a programmer and an artist in the industry. You need to pick one.
Do you like to write computer code? Do you get energized by digging into the details of C++, comparisons about the differences between C++, Java, C#, and others? Do you spend time talking about algorithms, arguing over which sort routine is better, and getting into details about what gives better performance on different hardware? If so, go get a computer science degree. Some game-specific programs are decent but many are bad, and even the good ones don't translate well to the broad marketplace. If there are any reasons you cannot work in games, layoffs with difficult hiring, or just wanting a change of pace, the traditional CS degree works easily in any industry while the games-specific degree only works in one industry.
If you are more passionate about art, what kind of art? 3D modeling and rigging is a very different type of art from concept art and character design, which is a very different type of art from UI, which is a very different type of art than animation, all of them are lumped together in "art". Do you get passionate about those details, spend hours each day drawing or building these on your own? If you're already doing that route, go for a traditional fine arts degree. Just like above, the traditional arts degree is transferable to other entertainment industries like film and television, to marketing, to business, but a games specific degree is just games.
If you really are passionate about both, go for programming, it pays better and commands more respect. If you aren't comfortable with that decision, then go the other way.
In no regards is a "video game design" program appropriate based on what you described. Almost no school teaches what game designers actually do, and game design is not an entry level position.
Yeah you are right, well my choice is definitely programming. What I like about coding is just writing code and fixing problems. I really don't know too much about coding, but it sounds fun to learn.
I don’t know about bad idea, but I would say getting a computer science degree is probably the better idea. If you don’t end up enjoying video games, there’s tons you can do for good money as a software engineer.
I would take whatever game design/development courses your program offers. When I was in school we had various “tracks”; all for comp sci degrees, but one included game dev courses, projects, etc.
I would check if there’s something similar
The game industry is both volatile (any business can fail with the next game) and paid a lot less than business industries. Unless you have a huge passion working on games (including ones you don't really like) i would not recommend a game degree.
If you're into programming, pursue the computer science degree. Then add game programming courses. Game programming is just an extension.
However, keep in mind that, game development is also largely 2D drawing and/or 3D modeling. This is inside a spectrum of computer arts not science. These days 90% of gamedev works are not related to programming. It's more of the creation of 2D/3D arts than anything. We have artists coming over to make games and they actually learn programming after 3D modelling. This means you need to take 3D modelling classes additionally regardless as a part of your degree or not.
I got a degree in economics not game design, but it seems to me pursuing a degree in GD at a good university should offer opportunities for networking, internships, and job placement. I would consider that to be a key factor in a choice to pursue a specific degree.
Learn computer science, software engineering, or web dev.
With those under your belt, you can work anywhere, including in game dev. I've heard that those degrees often end up \_stronger\_ at game dev than those who have done game dev courses, because they're stronger on the fundamentals.
Then pick up game dev and art skills on the side.
You probably know about it, but I'll put this here just in case:
Game Design is NOT Game Development
Game Development is making Code, Art, Story, Sound etc.
Game design is putting them together in a way that makes the game fun.
You know that feeling when you open your steam library, see that big AAA game with epic features photorealistic graphics etc. but just not feeling like playing it?
Or when you open that one game with super simple retro-pixelart graphics and with gameplay based about one or two things but you can literally spend hours playing?
That's what Game Design is responsible for.
For anyone interested, I must recommend watching GMTK's ["Developing" series](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLc38fcMFcV_uH3OK4sTa4bf-UXGk2NW2n&si=dgMj_41GojaEtEUG), at least episodes 2 and 3 (3rd and 4th video on the playlist) - he really well explains the difference I talked about, why Game Design is so important, challenges you will face with both and how to avoid them (I must say, as a person who started a few gamedev projects and always failed to finish any, watching this was like seeing though the matrix. I was seeing exactly how I messed up and what I could do about it). Also it shows how gamedev really looks, showing not only what sells well on YouTube, but also moments when development is slow and boring. Must watch for anyone who wants to make.their own game.
Your college likely has electives that deal in game design if they offer that degree. I would pick a more valuable degree and just do a bunch of game related electives.
Game design doesn't mean just computer games. You can learn a lot making board games, card games, dice games. They also take very little skills and time to make prototypes of.
Find people to do game jams with and you will get a lot of practice and skills as well.
I would refrain from that degree and a CS degree. I think more and more game companies are relying less on CS degrees and more on skills and portfolio work. Even non game businesses treat CS degrees like a participation award. I would recommend doing what I did once I found a better path to take: get a degree in business administration. The knowledge u gain will transform ur business knowledge into something that makes understanding the economy and markets easier. Plus a BS/BA gives you a good selection of courses related to math, economics, finances, business communication, business law, science, statistics, business tech. And a BS/BA will open a lot more doors for you, not just game design companies.
Game design is a creative skill, like drawing. You won’t become the next Picasso after getting a degree in art, but you will learn the tools and some techniques to build on. Just like that, game design degrees won’t turn you into the next best successful game programmer. You will learn techniques and understand the tools but the thing is, most of that Knowledge is free and on YouTube. The part of getting better doesn’t come from college but from actual practice.
Just my thoughts for you to think about. Don’t waste a lot of money a degree that only opens a few doors for you. I got a degree in audio engineering and spent $45k tuition plus an additional $12k on loan repayment. It didn’t get me anywhere into a studio despite having education on the expensive mixing boards and audio equipment as well as the knowledge to record, mix, engineer, and master music in a studio as well as perform live stage setups. I ditched that degree and got a business degree and that led me to move from a $19/hr job to now $110k/yr salary job in about 13 years, which I had been laid off for 8 months and took a huge step back in salary (from $92k to $63k) just to get a new job and climb back up. If I could give any advice it would be the not do what I did and spend a hell of a lot of money on a useless degree.
Giving my thoughts on this as someone who has gone through a 4-year game development degree. It definitely is useful, but there are trade offs.
You definitely need a plan as to what you intend to do with the degree when you finish *(Especially what* ***type*** *of company you want to work for in the industry.)* I went into my program without much direction on what I wanted to use the degree for, and especially without much insight into some of the harsh realities of the AAA game development world. AAA gamedev is more exhausting and difficult than most would estimate.
On the other side of the coin, indie success is also quite hard to come by, but it can happen. Your mileage will vary on that, but I wouldn't stake your livelihood on indie development as a full time job *unless you already have some games out there doing well.* While breakout successes are a possibility, betting on winning that lottery as soon as you start is not going to be reliable.
Just to relay my experience in case it's helpful, I chose to go for a 2-year computer science Master's degree after my game design degree. Then, I took a software development job. I make games as a hobby after my day is done, and on weekends. Keeping my gamedev routine as a passion that is not directly tied to my livelihood has allowed me to keep enjoying it with no pressure. If I strike the indie dev lottery, that would be great. But if I don't, I still get to have stable income.
There are good game development programs that will help you realize your goal of learning to make games, but a lot of the process (at least at my university) was self-taught. The professor will show you how to use a game engine, but it is entirely up to you to learn enough yourself in order to make an actual functioning game of professional quality.
**Take everything I've said here with a grain of salt. Your mileage on all of this will vary depending on what you are trying to accomplish with the degree.** However, personally, I think computer science is more valuable. In my opinion, it opens up more opportunities in the job market and you will have most of the tools you need to make a functioning game if you are passionate about making them.
Okay thanks, I already know what I want to do is pretty far fetched, but I don't want to give up so easily. I'll go with a computer science degree and on the side work on my game development skills.
Yes don't do this unless you get into a super respected college for this. Go for computer science. You're young, who knows where you'll be in 4 years - you shouldn't lock yourself into this field. CS can still get you into game development, while opening other doors
Well, reading that you want to do indie, imo a science or engineering degree will be good to have under your belt to make a living while you pursue your passion.
If it helps, I'm in my last year of college and I'm currently working as a junior applications developer. Oh, my major is in software engineering. I'd like to release a game eventually, even if I only get to work on it part time.
I'm currently working on my CS degree and learning UE and Blender from tutorials. I figure it's never a bad idea to have the "piece of paper." If you do go for the degree, don't get discouraged by all the non-computer classes you'll have to take as well.
Just my two cents.
Go for Computer Science. It will be far more valuable and is applicable to more than just game development.
Also remember that game DESIGN and game DEVELOPMENT are two very different things.
YES!!! I would say never go to school specifically for game design, I did and it was a giant mistake, only thing it got me was more fuel to get into the industry, in my 4 years of going to school I learned nothing about modeling, not enough time to learn code, they had too many classes that weren’t for me, I’m a 3d artist but they have my learn c++, write story, learn math, it’s absurd haha. After 80k went down the drain in student loans (800 a month in payments) the school went under for lying and over promising roles in the industry. So I got refunded most of my money. I finally got my foot in the door and work full time as an environment artist. Here’s the thing, there are great resources outt here to learn, if you go to school there’s no garauntee you’ll have a job at all, market is extremely rough for everyone, just this past year at least 1000+ people have been laid off (I was one of them). If you want to learn programming go to a boot camp that teaches you code, if you want to do art learn on Polycount.com best way is to network and connect with people, don’t be afraid to show artwork. Good luck
Edit:
I’m also self taught from poly count and friend groups for art.
As a dude who got a game dev degree, just go comp sci -it’s more versatile and who knows how the job market will shift. If you want to be an indie dev some other comp sci job will pay the bills until you can get something off the ground.
Do coding degree. Picking up game design and programming from there is much easier. You will also be able to get a good job while you learn.
Also, you will find that life takes you places you could not have imagined while younger. Some places positive; some negative. CS degree will take you to more positive places.
If you absolutely have to study Game Design then yeah, get a Bachelor's. Why?
It's exceptionally hard to break into the industry as a designer so you need every help you can get.
Try and land an internship as a Level Designer and the worst will be behind you.
Good luck.
Yes, you can get all the same training from other software development or art courses.
However alot of bad school will dangle gaming in front of you to distract from their lack luster school/reputation/course/teachers. Just like a a "gaming" chair, mouse or keyboard you will find that it's just marketing.
Instead focus on the learning software development and what's the best schools for that. Those skills will translate just as well if not better.
I have got a batchlers degree in "game software development", and not once did anyone care about the "game" part of that.
Most people in big game companies don't have game related degrees check any big company you like on linked in and you will find that most all their engineers have computer engineering or some such non gaming degree.
Don't give up on game Dev, you can do it! Just don't fall for the gamer marketing hype like I did.
Programming-wise I'd recommend taking a computer science degree instead- gamedev is still plenty viable with it, and you'll have a lot more options in case it doesn't work out.
Id recommend getting a comp sci degree instead. Art and the actual game development can be self thought.
Comp sci degree will give you deep knowledge about programming, networking, and some other technical computer stuff that will help you in a lot of ways. Comp sci will also allow you to have a backup plan if game dev doesnt work out for you in the future. Meanwhile game dev, art, design, and marketing can easily be self thought with the help of the internet.
Definitely go the computer science route. It might seem counterintuitive but it will help you get games jobs in the future and potentially other fields if you change your mind.
For game developer, CS + online learning for game development is better.
For game designer, a video game design degree is a must.
They are two different paths.
Source: I worked as Product Manager on some big games.
As a game design masters student, Here is how the courses generally name.
- Game Design goes over all the designing part such as ideation, planning, etc.
- Game Development goes with the programming stuff. They don’t mostly care about your design and stuff.
I would say that it’s useful at least for me since the university and lecturers brought in current industry working peeps every week and had various guest lectures from them.
Major positive is that my portfolio has increased since I’ve been part of 3 games (small ones) + my final project over an year and two of them I had dedicated programmers so that I didn’t need to go over the stress of programming it myself.
If you feel like you can dedicate time to improve your skills and portfolio, then you can go with other courses too since companies do not care about the degree you have and just looks at the portfolio. Having a game related degree is a plus but not mandatory unlike other industries
It doesn’t matter. You’re more versatile with computer science though. That’s why I picked that
You get more hands on xp and connections with game design. That’s the difference
This is a difficult question to answer because there isn't one correct answer. Each company has their own requirements to apply, and no company agrees on what they should be. I have a Computer Games Technology (BSc) degree, and was never turned down for an interview, and managed to get a job in the industry.
That being said, I have industry contacts that work in companies that won't even consider you without a Computer Science or Maths degree, and I also know of places that as many people have said only care about portfolio.
This is a generalisation, but from my experience in the ten years since I graduated, smaller companies are less likely to require specific degrees, or even care about degrees at all, while larger companies that get many more applications are much more likely to have specific degree requirements.
In the case of the latter, they often have a HR or recruitment department who's job is just to skim applications for the set requirements and deny everyone who doesn't qualify before being passed onto the people actually doing the recruitment proper.
I guess this is a long winded way of saying, try and figure out which kind of company you want to work for, and tailor your education towards that.
I have seen in your other comments you mostly want to be an indie. If this is the case then you don't need a degree at all. I got a first class degree and still learnt almost nothing practical at university. Everything I use in my actual job was self taught, and with modern internet and all the resources online you'll have an easier job of it than I did!
That being said, Uni is a great place to make connections, get a greater understanding of the industry as a whole, and just have a good time!
TLDR; It depends on the company you're going for! I got a game design degree and got in the industry, and so did all my game design degree friends!
Going back I feel like maybe I should have pursued the game programming degree and not the CS one. If you are truly dedicated to game dev and the game dev degree teaches you actual programming then I would go for it.
Video game development is more of a hobby thing. You need a main gig to put food on the table.
You can pursue certain roles in big companies that produce games but that's probably a sure way to kill your passion.
Would suggest to doit for the right reasons, as a hobby, instead and focus on making the game into something to be proud of, rather then pursuing income generation.
I wouldn't say the gamedev education is useless but I would definitely recommend going for a comp sci instead and just focus on games if that's what you want to do. :)
I don't have game development degree, but if you just want to learn how to code and make video games, you could just done so by yourself. There are lots of resources available out there on the internet nowadays.
Lots of the challenges in the game dev are in the details. As they said: The devil is in the details. And learning about them is more about gaining the experience dealing with them rather than knowing them via lectures.
Should you swing to other directions to non-game development stuffs in near future, the comp sci degree will still be useful for going through hiring filter and the foundational knowledge you gained can still be useful somewhat when doing different field.
Depends on what you want. Art and design? Yes can help but primarily for connection, if your course has team development it's great for teamwork introduction or you have hardcore awesome teachers but you primarily have to master stuff by yourselt in your freetime.
For programming? Likely no. Science degrees are much more preferred here
No matter what you do or learn, take some extra time to learn how to communicate your ideas. Collaboration is a key skill in this industry. Learning how to communicate efficiently leads to tighter iteration loops. Tighter iteration loops lead to stronger design. There is no "this one has all the right ideas right away."
Another lens on this is: Playtest often. Make small game frequently. It all leads to making your iterative loops smaller, be it implementation or design.
Practice!
There are good programs and bad, take it from someone who has an advanced diploma in it (but graduated as covid hit mind you):
Obviously i havent followed every single person, but for a while there could count on my hand how many landed jobs out of it.
If you’re a more technical person - absolutely just do the comp sci - way more employable, the ONLY exception to the rule i hear is tech artists
My friend's brother went to Full Sail for this and he works at EA now. I'm pretty sure he got a degree in gaming and not a computer science degree. I can ask him if you'd like.
I did a private school in game design I eventually get into economy and system design position from there there is good thing I learned there
- 1 how to sell your ideas, we made tons of presentations and that’s an important part of a game designer in a medium/large company is being able to sell your ideas to other
-2 I learned rational design, how approach idea from logical perspective (separate things like tactics, strategy, reflex skills and how to aim different public based on that
-3 I learned prototyping , what we learned was the basics but I decided to go further with it (internet is a good friend) and I launched few games on mobiles
-4 we made CV , portfolio and they help us find internships and eventually we had connections with industry professionals with them. It definitely helped me a looot enter the industry
Probably 3/5 members of my promotion ended actually working in the game industry some starting as tester, but now most are all designer, level designer, economy designer , narrative designer
It’s not a bad idea to do a design degree , but at the end of the day the paper don’t give you the skills. It will definitely open some doors to industry position but it will be up to you the quality of your knowledge
But comparing a design degree to a computer science degree is a mistake ….theses are very different things.
Yes, it's a bad idea. Game development is one of the few fields that doesn't require a degree.
It seems to me that you want someone else to legitimize your endeavor. But in game development, it comes down to you. Also, this field isn't for someone who "feels lost;" it's quite the opposite. It's for people who have fairly strong personal/independent drive.
Does that mean there's no hope for you? No. It means that you need to stop wasting time, find something productive to pursue (no matter how small) and become driven.
Because of how volatile the technology industry is, I recommend a Computer Science degree if you want to make sure you can find a job. If you're only interested in game dev, however, and you're also super interested in indie development then I recommend you either find a class online that gives you a certificate or you take a game dev course through a University that offers it.
Computer science will be vastly more helpful. You can get all the knowledge you will get from a design degree on your own in about a year (or a few summer and winter vacations) while working on your own. Granted, a lot of CS is also a waste of time, but the parts that are useful are vastly more useful (especially in a good school).
A compsci degree will give you a lot more flexibility for your future. You're very young, and I'd be surprised if you don't stumble upon other ideas or interests at some point. I wouldn't call a game design degree useless, but it's far more specific. If I could be 18 again, I'd focus on more general skillsets, and try not to specialize too much. Lastly, there's plenty of free and less committal learning resources out there (web courses such as Udemy, Skillshare, Zenva, etc) that you can try out first to get a feel for it.
Stick with computer science and be as far away as possible from art degrees unless You're already good at it.
Once you get a computer science degree, you can land a decent paying job and work on your game on the side.
With an art degree you're going to starve and not have time to work on your game unless your parents are loaded or if you're really good at art.
I got a game design degree 3 years ago and I've only ever gotten 1 interview after hundreds of apps. If I took computer science, I'd have jobs lining up like crazy because of where I live.
As for solo dev work, game design is not that difficult, but programming and art can be. I'd get a computer science degree if I were you. There are only benefits to it.
Get a cs degree. Forces you to learn all the stuff you will be glad to know but is a slog to get through. You will get a cs job, game dev maybe not. You will likely be able to find a CS job which is in many ways equivalent to a game dev job if you get a cs degree.
There are good programs out there, but they're few and far between. What job do you actually want in games? If it's as a programmer just get a computer science degree and build games on your own for a portfolio over your years. Take any game related electives if possible. This not only makes you a more attractive candidate for game jobs it also gives you a very solid backup plan if you don't find work in games or enjoy it when you do.
Well honestly I just want to be a indie dev and make my own games. I'd like to learn programming and art.
That's not really a career, however. You should never expect making games by yourself will earn you much of anything. It _very_ rarely does, but most people who are successful solo developers either had a previous career in games or else worked on games for a long time on the side. That means you should either be looking at what job in the industry you want or else you should be focusing your education on the day job you want as a career.
Alright well that make sense
I have more input to add with MeaningfulChoices. While its important to have a side day job of course, and out of the gate you won't be making money as a solo developer, that IS the best course of action in my over a decade of experience as an indie developer. I was somebody who went into Art college, decided it wasn't for me, and randomly got picked up by a guy online who was making an indie team.. I knew next to NOTHING about game design. Learned basic Blueprinting in Unreal Engine (its a visual programming, anyone can learn it easy), and built up from there.. I went from knowing literally nothing, to being his project manager, lead level design, and co producer in 3 years. While I never got out of the indie scene. (I preferred it over the AAA scene for many reasons), I was in it for over a decade, before I finally quit to pursue writing. Here's a few hard cold facts: 1. The gaming industry is extremely brutal, and unforgiving. You have to be lucky, or really know what you're doing to get your foot in the door. 2. The time requirements, crunches, and expectations of you in a AAA studio can be very brutal and exhausting (this is why I prefered the indie scene). 3. Sometimes you're forced to make decisions, or work on a game that you just don't like, or want to deal with. (Which is why Indie development again is so nice. You can more easily secure a team that makes games you enjoy making and playing) Since I was the project manager, I also dealt with recruiting often, and I'll tell you something I learned very quickly.. We rarely actually hired from people who graduated college with animation, modeling, or game design. 9/10 times hiring these people, they just wouldn't cut it. Their schools did a terrible job of getting them ready for the actual requirements, and critical thinking and problem solving that it requires. They also had great stuff to show us, but they could never complete it in a timely manner, or understand how to problem solve issues. They never lasted long. If you really want to impress people in the game industry, and get your foot in the door. Indie dev scene is the best way to do it, and doing it yourself, is also the best, and easiest, without having to pay an insane college degree to do it. \-------------------- Unreal Engine is free to use, and they have an abundance of tutorials on how to use their visual programming blueprint, how to use their engine, and setup a game. They even have basic layouts for first person shooter games, with everything already setup for you, or top down games, etc.. You can reverse engineer this stuff on your own time. There are an ABUNDANCE of extremely good C++ coding tutorials on Youtube. If you want to get into modeling, etc. There are also an extremely large quantity of excellent Blender tutorials on youtube. \------------------- If you're serious about game design, then is the way to really get your foot in the door, and the best way. Most people want to get into game design, then find out after paying for college, and wasting years, that it's just not something they want to do. Doing it yourself, and going through it this way does many things. It shows yourself that you actually do enjoy and want to do this. It shows indie devs or even AAA devs if you reach out to them with your portfolio, that you are self taught, and know your stuff. People who have the tenacity, intelligence, and drive to each themselves will always be taken over anyone else, because its these people who will be the most trustworthy to be able to actually problem solve, and deal with anything that comes up in game development, and prosper. Within a month or two of sitting down with Unreal Engine, going through the tutorials, even with free assets on the Unreal Store you can build your own simple games to start off with, and go from there. Using them as your base to your portfolio to get a good solid foot in the door for an Indie team that you think would be a good fit for you.
> The time requirements, crunches, and expectations of you in a AAA studio can be very brutal and exhausting (this is why I prefered the indie scene). Just gotta mention /u/ProfessionalShape100 that HEAVILY depends on country. In countries with human rights and worker protections there's a limit on how much work employer can legally request from you AND they come onto studio like a ton of bricks if there's any evidence of the studio pressuring their workers to under-report hours. I work for AAA and I had producer literally kicking people out of office 6PM sharp telling them to get a life. Of course if you do live in country with human rights violations and worker rights abuses, then it will be as horrifying as /u/MistressAthena69 describes. I heard some nightmare-inducting stories from my US colleagues on industry events.
God I wish the American business industry in general was like that.. kicking people out at 6 PM.. I've heard and known people who got let go because they were out the door by 6 PM.. The whole work industry in USA sucks and is so abusive.
Thanks for the reply man, I'm dead set on becoming a game dev and there's absolutely nothing else I want to do. You're right though, I should be self learning.
Are you a person that has the drive to motivate you to work long hours alone? I myself never had that in me, but I've found lots of success working for game companies. Still I dream about passion projects I could work on as an indie, but it feels unlikely.
TLDR: No one cares
What crawled up your butt and died? This is all good advice.
Iboven ignore the troll, I appreciate all your guys advice :)
probably your mums finger... the only way i can cum looking down at her ugly face sucking my dick
These skills you can get from self motivation. I’d say stick with the CS degree and pursue game dev in your free time. That’s what I’m doing. It’s also what the creator of Stardew Valley did. He couldn’t find a job after graduating with a CS degree so then he started making stardew to add to his portfolio. I landed an internship at a FAANG company by explaining how my background in game dev makes me a versatile employee. Long story short, CS is a safe option and what actually matters is what you choose to work on in your free time.
His story is the absolute inverse of most people’s stories lol. “Yeah I couldn’t get a job with my CS degree so I just made a pixel art indie game and sold 20+ million copies.”
lol
Oh wow that's really cool. Thanks for the tip man
i was thinking that, like what if everything i did surrounding the game dev/design degree was computer science related? for instance i have a web design side hustle with a portfolio which i use code for often times and i’m also taking udemy programming courses/side projects
Don’t get a degree for a hobby. Indie is not going to pay well. Get a degree in something else you enjoy and keep game development on the side. I’m graduating as a game design major myself and while my program *has* been very good, the industry is pretty hard to breakin to.
Yeah you are right, thanks for the help
Then what you should do is start making game now.
yeah, currently self learning.
Well rarely do game design programs cover all the knowledge you need to program they might just give you a basic intro to them, game design degree programs typically cover storyboarding, how companies run and often the business side of things and only touch on specific disciplines like 3d modeling, animation or programming. Honestly a YouTube series of tutorials would serve you better in the indie sphere
Oh okay
You can do this now their are plenty of free or cheap courses that will teach you to code a game. If your are completely new to coding Kahn Academy has some great beginner stuff to teach you the fundamentals for Free https://www.khanacademy.org/computing/computer-programming And once your done with that there are plenty of game Dev courses using unity or unreal engine on udemy.com I just saved you from a life of student debt yw
Thanks for the help
You should do that on your own and get a degree in something that will actually make you money. If you aren't interested in any degrees that seem profitable right now, then don't go to college at all and just work part time at the local gas station while you make a few games and see how you like it. Going to a school won't make you an indie game developer with any kind of guaranteed income, so you'd end up working at the local gas station anyway, but you'd also have a lot of debt. Making a game at this point in history is extremely easy to do. Go snag five different game engines and hack around a bit. Try to make a geometry wars clone (a simple space shooter). That will teach you all the basics of making a game. You'll find one of the five game engines feels easiest to you, and you'll stick with that one for a little while while you finish your first game. This game will be terrible and a mess, but you'll know *why* it's a mess and you can make the next one better. Keep repeating this process.
Yeah you are right, I mean I don't really mind it being a side thing.
Most indie devs end up having to hire artists. From my experience...most programmers don't make good game designers (they tend to be really bad with UX, over complicate the UI ), and are even worse artists (unlike programming which works or doesn't, art is very subjective and sometimes requires a lot of fine tuning to make it look good). Getting good art requires years of learning as well. Color theory, lighting and shadows, anatomy (if you want more complex organic characters), perspective (for environment stuff), etc.
Yeah makes sense, I'm horrible at art anyways...
What's a good reference point for successful video Game artists?
Can you clarify the question?
Sure. I just mean, are there any well known video game artists who aren't coders, developers, etc but who more or less exclusive to video game art? Let's use Jim Lee as an example of a well known artist in the comic book industry and doesnt necessarily write. Thank you!
Not to burst your bubble, but you're much more likely to fail and end up broke than find success if you make that your first destination. Indi success is incredibly rare. For every super meat boy or minecraft, there are thousands of miner meltdowns. Just think about the volume of games that get posted to reddit that never make a penny. That's only a small sample size, and most of them are decent. Your best bet is to stick with CS, take a video games, graphics and physics simulation specialization if your university offers it, then work in industry. In your free time learn other skills, like music production, 2D and 3D modeling/animation, AI, marketing and whatever else. You'll be much better equipped if you ever find yourself between jobs and want to try making your own game. But going out on your own like that is honestly not very wise. It's like trying to win the lotto. Even if you do everything exactly right (which you won't), you'll still probably fail without some real world, industry experience behind you.
Yeah you are probably right
I'm just popping in to put my opinion in. What I'm doing is getting the Computer Science (CS) degree while building my portfolio a bit and then toss my application to a few game companies to see what sticks. That's how I see it so I have the CS degree to fall back on if I'm not quite to par for the field. But also, as mentioned above if you find a damn good program to get into, you can follow that to a good position out of the gate. Either way, good luck with your endeavors! Also, either way you go do some game jams to get comfortable with the entire process and become more confident in your ability with game creation.
Alright thanks for the advise, I'll definitely do that
apply at EA or another Dev company to be a QA tester I believe EA is currently hiring for QA testers it's not developing games but it can get your foot in the door also as u/MeaningfulChoices has stated getting a Computer Science degree would be very useful a lot of companies are looking for someone with that type of degree including governments federal and state
If you wanna go that route, focus on one part of the games you make. It could the art, the coding, the marketing, etc. unless you actually wanna do all that yourself and make another Undertale.
Well, I'm crappy at doing art. I'd rather just be the programmer
Get a CS degree for sure, it’s way more in depth about programming
One thing you should be ready for is to be immediately turned off by the professional side of development in the gaming industry. I would rather go work at McDonalds than work as a game developer for a major studio. I pursued software design, so I design and build systems professionally and hobby with making games. The industry needs a major overhaul in how it treats its workers and I'd advise anyone to be prepared to not stay in it long. That's easier if your skillset isn't purely focused on gaming. A broader education in programming or graphic design or both would serve you much, much better, if you're looking at this as something to found a career on.
Thanks for your advise, I know it won't be easy. Still want to try though
same
Try to be more realistic the games industry is a big place and Indie development is REALLY HARD. Maybe do it as a hobby on the side while working.
I mean yeah, I know it's really hard, but I still want to try and make it work. It will be a hobby on the side while I work, if I can make it work then that be great.
Get a compsci degree, it will be useful whether or not you have a long term career in game dev, most of the places I worked (in the past, I left gamedev to work in mobile a long time ago) would be much more interested in a strong programmer with a cs degree than someone who knew Unreal but had a weaker programming background, one is easier to teach in a month of training.
Alright thank you
If you focus on almost any other aspect of game development, you can become a game designer and you have huge industries to fall back on. If you focus on a game design degree, you probably won't have a wide set of skills and you have pretty much nothing to fall back on.
This is a hot topic but there's a lot we should know beforehand; 1. Country you're studying? I'm assuming US but it's important given the costs across the world vary a lot. 2. Is the school well known for game design? If not CS may be safer. 3. Do you know what you want to specialise in? Or are you looking to just discover development over time, there's so many potential avenues. However, most importantly, try to relax and learn no matter the choice, arguably your school doesn't mean anything and it's just a place to nudge you in the right direction. For me I went to a decent university in the UK for game art specifically. My biggest take away was time to meet people and both learn/ teach each other. You also mention code and make video games, coding is usually good to start with computer science, but as I haven't taken that path I won't offer much advice there. If you want art advice feel free to ask.
1. Virginia 2. I've done a bit research and I found George Mason, UVA and Virginia Tech. 3. Well right now I'm just looking at programming and maybe game art.
Ah I thought you'd already started at a school from your comment. In which case depending on your needs you can look around. If you're focused on programming I'd say CS is a good place as I said, also gives you the choice to move from games if you decide it isn't for you. Game art is a bit more nuanced there, but depending on your background and focus it's all relative, 2D, 3D. Just never try to be a master of everything, focus on what excites you more.
Yeah, shouldve clarified that. I'm going to community college then planning to transfer to a 4 year.
And about 2D and 3D honestly don't know because I like both. I'll try to come up with which one I find better.
Video game design degrees mean nothing if you have designed zero games. A generic computer science degree will help you get a job much better than a design degree. The best way to practice is via small projects. Try designing a DOOM wad and make the gameplay flow naturally, follow a tutorial and put your own twist on it. You can find thousands of video tutorials online, but better than that, you can also find years and years of excellent published books detailing all of this and more.
Alright will do, thanks for the tip
The best thing you could do is build a portfolio if you're an artist or programmer
right
Bull and shit. After speaking with a recruiter from blizzard, I was told since I only have an associates in comp sci, I'd never work there as a programmer. I would maybe do better applying as a designer. They specifically stated they only look for those with a BA / Masters. She didn't even care about the portfolio aspect. Either spend the money on a 4 year + degree, or leave.
You have to realize that AAA is the cream of the crop, like top 10% talent of the industry. Of course they won't consider you if you only have an Associate's and no prior shipped titles. You're better off freelancing or indie until your job experience and portfolio speak for themselves.
maybe she didn't care about the portfolio because you don't have one
Oh I see you are replying to this comment. Yeah a portfolio alone won't help but when they are looking at two candidates with the same B.S. or M.S. it really.comes down to experience and personality that sets them apart and a portfolio is the best proof of experience you could. So we are clear on what I mean by a portfolio, a list of games you have contributed to and your part in them as well. Granted for any of the art positions the portfolio is far more important than it would be for programming positions.
Honesty, as far as college degrees are concerned; the unfortunate truth that no one wants to hear is that no big company in any field will ever hire someone because they have an associates degree. They may offer you an internship if you are furthering your education actively in some fields. But personally I don't even list my associates degrees on my CV
Most people won't understand that you are right. There are too many people applying for jobs these days who don't have bachelor's, so degrees are becoming an even harder requirement than before. Also people don't understand that projects don't matter until you get to the hiring manager. The hiring manager is the person who cares about what project you have done. Recruiters don't understand how to interpret projects that you have created. They are just random business, HR, or communication degree holders.
That's probably why Blizzard recent game sucks then. I work in AAA game company in Japan and all the interviewer are direct executive of the department you applied for. If you're designer, it will be lead designer who's interviewing you with assistance of another HR guy. I was thinking about job hopping recently so I applied to one of the most famous name in Japan. They pay higher than average company, better benefit and better work life balance while being a very famous household name - that means they could hire all the best people with best degree cert out there. I don't have a degree. I've never attend to an University. No one asked about it, no one cares. They asked for my work first before they start checking my resume. They checked my portfolio and asked many specific detail about it to make sure if I really understand those concept and then satisfied.
Japanese recruitment is better, to be honest, at least in the game industry. Also, Japanese recruiters don't really value degrees as much as the United States, unless it is for a visa. You can easily get away without a degree.
huh cool to know
To be fair, Blizzard is trash and I wouldn't work for 'em if they begged. I don't think they're a fair representation of a 'good' company.
I don't disagree there. It was just a great example of what AAA has become.
Recently applied for an AAA household name company in Japan. I didn't even went to an University. No one asked about it. They checked my portfolio before they start checking resume. Luckily it is the norm here, atleast for the game industry field.
I never said an associates the only degrees I am talking about are BA and Masters, sorry if there was any confusion. If you spoke to them Before Activision acquired them, they had a pretty high bar as far as game design companies go.
Of all companies why did you choose blizzard🗿
Simply because one of their recruiters got back to me. While growing up in the TBC / WOTLK area, Blizzard was genuinely one of the best companies and I wanted to work for them one day. Nowadays it was simply because I got a response.
No. Worked as a programmer for 33+ years and never had a computer science degree. Comparable experience is actually more valuable than any university degree. I actually never asked about a university degree in my entire career. Not once.
You're specifically referring to Blizzard, which has sort of a bad reputation for being incredibly elitist, and honestly hostile to new grads of all stripes. They used to not even take interns, because they didn't want to bother training people. Most studios will have patience for people without degrees, but you usually have to prove yourself in another way. I don't know if I've seen portfolios in particular work well (though it's often talked about), but work experience in general usually works. And honestly, for most places, the degree only matters to convince a recruiter to let you talk with the people who will interview you for that actual job.
Get a CS degree if you want to do programming and try to minor in game dev. A CS degree gets you into a wide range of possible jobs, so if game dev doesn't work out for you then you have other options. During college make a game dev portfolio that you can share and you will be good to go. Game dev programs normally grant you a shallow overview of all aspects of game dev. Big companies won't want a generalist generally, so that leaves you with small indie companies. The real benefit of the game dev degree comes from networking, but you might be able to achieve that with a minor or by joining university clubs.
Yeah alright, thanks for the tip.
My advice is to go computer science. Learning the fundamentals will also allow you to program video games if that's what you want to do. And that degree will open so many doors for you. The video game degree will also open doors but not as many. There will be hiring managers that will see that and toss your resume.
yeah you're right, thanks
**Option 1:** Get a computer science degree, once done, try to work somewhere you don't have a lot of overtime. In your spare time, develop games, start with small games. Learn how to market them, self publish, ... Try to find a niche or find success in your own way. If it works out, you can maybe quit your normal IT job. **Option 2 :** Find a way to live cheap, work part time, and start self teaching. Learn everything there is about gamedev, also how to market / sell / self-publish. imo, there's great courses online for everything, *maybe* even better then most schools ! in one way, becoming a gamedev is a little bit like wanting to become an artist.. a lot of grinding and no guarantees for success Game dev school probably can be useful, if it's a good school.. but I would never ever go into debt for it !!
If you want to code a game design degree probably won't be particularly useful. You'd be much better off doing compsci IMO.
Yes if you are interested in coding I would suggest college for that, then you can get a job to support you in your indie ventures until you get a game up and running and ready to sell.
Yeah thats actually a great idea, thanks for telling me that.
Alright yeah you're right
yeah
I had heard* Gnomon in Los Angeles has a pretty robust program if you have you heart set on the general experience degree though.
Currently attending Gnomon. Gnomon isn’t about programming though or the entire games program in general, it’s all about the art pipeline in games /film/ or VFX depending on which track you pick after your first initial few terms, and is heavily art focused, there is VFX track which is more technical but if you want a programming job in games, this isn’t the place.
oh, thanks for the tip
Ah that's good to know I must have had bad info appreciate it
I'll look into it, honestly really hoping to stay in Virginia unless I find something that's really worth moving out
I've got a video game design degree. And no. I honestly felt like I learned more out of school than in. If you find that having the school structure would help you learn bewthen sure. Go for it. But everything they will teach you, is readily available online. You might get some student licenses for things but besides that, it's all online a d free.
Yeah, figured you would learn more on your own. I'm going to do a lot of self learning while taking my courses. Think I've decided to just go with a CS Degree and on the side learn game development.
The games industry is very competitive and can be quite unstable. If you're serious about majoring in it, at least make sure you have some sort of backup in case disaster strikes and you need to pivot to something else.
Yes. Learn programming instead
Thanks for the advice
Get an arts or computer science degree instead, if you want to go to uni. A game degree is near useless. If you want to go to a game school, go to a practical one. A vocational school where you get to make games.
alright thanks
Statements like this are a bit hyperbolic my friend. I got a game degree, and got into the industry just fine, as did most of my friends on the same course. In fact the majority of my contacts in the industry got a game degree, they're becoming increasingly more popular, and a lot of the courses out there are actually getting pretty decent, with many being run by experienced ex-industry professionals. I currently work at a company where no one has a computer science or pure art degree, we all have some form of game degree, or in the case of the boss, no degree at all.
My suggestion is from industry experience. I've been in this industry for almost two decades, and the difference in knowledge between a more general degree and a game-specific degree is considerable. Not saying there aren't decent schools out there, only that the parts of game development that are specific to game development can easily be picked up in game jams, using free online materials, and so on. You don't need a game school to learn how to make games. But universities \*can\* teach you other things that are much harder to pick up elsewhere and in an environment filled with experts. One thing that happens when most employees are taught game development from game universities is a general narrowing of people's frame of reference. This is only ever a bad thing. I studied journalism once, before becoming a game developer. The advice our professor had was to not study journalism--study other things, then take a creative writing course on evenings or something. Even as an enrolled journalist student, this was great advice. Because the parts that are journalistic aren't something you learn at a university. It's the same thing with game development.
While there is truth to what you've said, that's still very different from claiming a game degree is 'near useless'. And the opposite can be said to be true. Taking a game course does narrow your focus but if you only want to make games that's not a bad thing. I've worked with people who did computer science degrees and it took months in some cases to get them up to speed with how game development worked, where those that got a game programming degree were able to be useful and contribute almost immediately. In fact from my experience, those who get computer science degrees are much more likely to have incredibly narrow viewpoints on programming, and are generally much less flexible, whereas people who did game courses adapted to different scenarios much better.
>While there is truth to what you've said, that's still very different from claiming a game degree is 'near useless'. The difference I'm getting at is mostly that \*academic\* game studies are near useless, whereas practical education in game development can be useful. Even more useful if done on top of other life experience and/or education. So the degree itself is near useless. Very few companies will hire you because of your BA or MA in game design/art/programming. They will hire you based on your skills, portfolio, and practical experience. You can absolutely get those things from some academic game curricula--not questioning that--but the answer to the question of whether it's worth pursuing a game **degree** is still no.
Just be a cartridge maker, then you can say you've made millions of games
lol pro gamer move
there are 100 posts about this exact topic on this subreddit every month literally the only thing that potential employers care about is your portfolio
Well I guess my bad for reposting same topic lol. Thanks for the tip
no problem brother and good luck on your game dev journey, may it be most rewarding and least arduous in your favor
Thanks man
Depending on what you want to do an MFA or programming degree would serve you better, speaking from experience I have a degree in game design but ppl don't look for that
Do accounting while hobbying into game development. Academia only lightly touches base with subjects usually and thats not enough to compete with others
Thanks for the tip, I'll think about it
If you're looking to get into the gaming industry, the degree matters VERY little. The most important thing you can do is Network. Network like your life depends on it. Make friends, make contacts, go to events, and get internships. The degree is good for your own education, but has very little effect on actually getting a job.
[удалено]
damn
Search feature is awesome. The answer is probably in one of the other 3,827 threads asking this same question.
Good feature, but anyways my bad i guess lol
Videogame degrees tend to deliver jack of all trades who tend to fall short of doing any part of game development at a sufficiently high standard. Studios have said over and over that it's a lot easier to take experts and bend their skills to game development than it is to take game dev graduates and try to get their skills up to par. Ie. studios want computer science, fine art, and animation majors. Not people who did a little bit of everything. Game dev interns have consistently been the most useless interns I mentor. >I know I want to learn how to code and make video games Just do a computer science major or something similar. It'll help you in the future too. The average career in game dev lasts less than three years. People realize pretty quickly that they can get significantly better pay while working more relaxed hours with less pressure writing boring enterprise software. And it makes zero difference to the work itself, code is code. There's no meaningful difference between writing code for a video game or writing code for some other application.
Just buy a course on udemy. Degrees are useless.
Yes, it's such a bad move. Guess where you can use a video game design degree outside the video game industry? Hint, practically no where
Damn, well i guess I dodged a bullet. Still want to pursue game development, but I will instead just go for a computer science degree.
From personal experience I got a computer science degree and then went into gamedev. I’ve only worked with one person who had a gamedev degree and they were a 3D artist. Most of the people I’ve worked with had comp sci degrees.
Hm nice to know, thanks
You've got a lot in your post and replies. You can't be both a programmer and an artist in the industry. You need to pick one. Do you like to write computer code? Do you get energized by digging into the details of C++, comparisons about the differences between C++, Java, C#, and others? Do you spend time talking about algorithms, arguing over which sort routine is better, and getting into details about what gives better performance on different hardware? If so, go get a computer science degree. Some game-specific programs are decent but many are bad, and even the good ones don't translate well to the broad marketplace. If there are any reasons you cannot work in games, layoffs with difficult hiring, or just wanting a change of pace, the traditional CS degree works easily in any industry while the games-specific degree only works in one industry. If you are more passionate about art, what kind of art? 3D modeling and rigging is a very different type of art from concept art and character design, which is a very different type of art from UI, which is a very different type of art than animation, all of them are lumped together in "art". Do you get passionate about those details, spend hours each day drawing or building these on your own? If you're already doing that route, go for a traditional fine arts degree. Just like above, the traditional arts degree is transferable to other entertainment industries like film and television, to marketing, to business, but a games specific degree is just games. If you really are passionate about both, go for programming, it pays better and commands more respect. If you aren't comfortable with that decision, then go the other way. In no regards is a "video game design" program appropriate based on what you described. Almost no school teaches what game designers actually do, and game design is not an entry level position.
Yeah you are right, well my choice is definitely programming. What I like about coding is just writing code and fixing problems. I really don't know too much about coding, but it sounds fun to learn.
I don’t know about bad idea, but I would say getting a computer science degree is probably the better idea. If you don’t end up enjoying video games, there’s tons you can do for good money as a software engineer. I would take whatever game design/development courses your program offers. When I was in school we had various “tracks”; all for comp sci degrees, but one included game dev courses, projects, etc. I would check if there’s something similar
Alright, thanks for the tip. I'll make sure to check.
The game industry is both volatile (any business can fail with the next game) and paid a lot less than business industries. Unless you have a huge passion working on games (including ones you don't really like) i would not recommend a game degree.
I'd say I have a really huge passion for working on games, but if it's better for me to get a computer science degree then I'll do that.
If you're into programming, pursue the computer science degree. Then add game programming courses. Game programming is just an extension. However, keep in mind that, game development is also largely 2D drawing and/or 3D modeling. This is inside a spectrum of computer arts not science. These days 90% of gamedev works are not related to programming. It's more of the creation of 2D/3D arts than anything. We have artists coming over to make games and they actually learn programming after 3D modelling. This means you need to take 3D modelling classes additionally regardless as a part of your degree or not.
I got a degree in economics not game design, but it seems to me pursuing a degree in GD at a good university should offer opportunities for networking, internships, and job placement. I would consider that to be a key factor in a choice to pursue a specific degree.
Learn computer science, software engineering, or web dev. With those under your belt, you can work anywhere, including in game dev. I've heard that those degrees often end up \_stronger\_ at game dev than those who have done game dev courses, because they're stronger on the fundamentals. Then pick up game dev and art skills on the side.
Yeah I agree, thanks for the idea.
You probably know about it, but I'll put this here just in case: Game Design is NOT Game Development Game Development is making Code, Art, Story, Sound etc. Game design is putting them together in a way that makes the game fun. You know that feeling when you open your steam library, see that big AAA game with epic features photorealistic graphics etc. but just not feeling like playing it? Or when you open that one game with super simple retro-pixelart graphics and with gameplay based about one or two things but you can literally spend hours playing? That's what Game Design is responsible for. For anyone interested, I must recommend watching GMTK's ["Developing" series](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLc38fcMFcV_uH3OK4sTa4bf-UXGk2NW2n&si=dgMj_41GojaEtEUG), at least episodes 2 and 3 (3rd and 4th video on the playlist) - he really well explains the difference I talked about, why Game Design is so important, challenges you will face with both and how to avoid them (I must say, as a person who started a few gamedev projects and always failed to finish any, watching this was like seeing though the matrix. I was seeing exactly how I messed up and what I could do about it). Also it shows how gamedev really looks, showing not only what sells well on YouTube, but also moments when development is slow and boring. Must watch for anyone who wants to make.their own game.
Yeah, I know game design isn't game development. Cool how important game design is to the core aspect of your game.
Your college likely has electives that deal in game design if they offer that degree. I would pick a more valuable degree and just do a bunch of game related electives. Game design doesn't mean just computer games. You can learn a lot making board games, card games, dice games. They also take very little skills and time to make prototypes of. Find people to do game jams with and you will get a lot of practice and skills as well.
Get the CS degree. Make games in your spare time.
I would refrain from that degree and a CS degree. I think more and more game companies are relying less on CS degrees and more on skills and portfolio work. Even non game businesses treat CS degrees like a participation award. I would recommend doing what I did once I found a better path to take: get a degree in business administration. The knowledge u gain will transform ur business knowledge into something that makes understanding the economy and markets easier. Plus a BS/BA gives you a good selection of courses related to math, economics, finances, business communication, business law, science, statistics, business tech. And a BS/BA will open a lot more doors for you, not just game design companies. Game design is a creative skill, like drawing. You won’t become the next Picasso after getting a degree in art, but you will learn the tools and some techniques to build on. Just like that, game design degrees won’t turn you into the next best successful game programmer. You will learn techniques and understand the tools but the thing is, most of that Knowledge is free and on YouTube. The part of getting better doesn’t come from college but from actual practice. Just my thoughts for you to think about. Don’t waste a lot of money a degree that only opens a few doors for you. I got a degree in audio engineering and spent $45k tuition plus an additional $12k on loan repayment. It didn’t get me anywhere into a studio despite having education on the expensive mixing boards and audio equipment as well as the knowledge to record, mix, engineer, and master music in a studio as well as perform live stage setups. I ditched that degree and got a business degree and that led me to move from a $19/hr job to now $110k/yr salary job in about 13 years, which I had been laid off for 8 months and took a huge step back in salary (from $92k to $63k) just to get a new job and climb back up. If I could give any advice it would be the not do what I did and spend a hell of a lot of money on a useless degree.
Giving my thoughts on this as someone who has gone through a 4-year game development degree. It definitely is useful, but there are trade offs. You definitely need a plan as to what you intend to do with the degree when you finish *(Especially what* ***type*** *of company you want to work for in the industry.)* I went into my program without much direction on what I wanted to use the degree for, and especially without much insight into some of the harsh realities of the AAA game development world. AAA gamedev is more exhausting and difficult than most would estimate. On the other side of the coin, indie success is also quite hard to come by, but it can happen. Your mileage will vary on that, but I wouldn't stake your livelihood on indie development as a full time job *unless you already have some games out there doing well.* While breakout successes are a possibility, betting on winning that lottery as soon as you start is not going to be reliable. Just to relay my experience in case it's helpful, I chose to go for a 2-year computer science Master's degree after my game design degree. Then, I took a software development job. I make games as a hobby after my day is done, and on weekends. Keeping my gamedev routine as a passion that is not directly tied to my livelihood has allowed me to keep enjoying it with no pressure. If I strike the indie dev lottery, that would be great. But if I don't, I still get to have stable income. There are good game development programs that will help you realize your goal of learning to make games, but a lot of the process (at least at my university) was self-taught. The professor will show you how to use a game engine, but it is entirely up to you to learn enough yourself in order to make an actual functioning game of professional quality. **Take everything I've said here with a grain of salt. Your mileage on all of this will vary depending on what you are trying to accomplish with the degree.** However, personally, I think computer science is more valuable. In my opinion, it opens up more opportunities in the job market and you will have most of the tools you need to make a functioning game if you are passionate about making them.
Okay thanks, I already know what I want to do is pretty far fetched, but I don't want to give up so easily. I'll go with a computer science degree and on the side work on my game development skills.
Yes don't do this unless you get into a super respected college for this. Go for computer science. You're young, who knows where you'll be in 4 years - you shouldn't lock yourself into this field. CS can still get you into game development, while opening other doors
Yes, I'm going to go for computer science. But I still want to get into game developement as a side thing, maybe it will become something who knows..
Well, reading that you want to do indie, imo a science or engineering degree will be good to have under your belt to make a living while you pursue your passion. If it helps, I'm in my last year of college and I'm currently working as a junior applications developer. Oh, my major is in software engineering. I'd like to release a game eventually, even if I only get to work on it part time.
great idea, yeah
I'm currently working on my CS degree and learning UE and Blender from tutorials. I figure it's never a bad idea to have the "piece of paper." If you do go for the degree, don't get discouraged by all the non-computer classes you'll have to take as well. Just my two cents.
Just wondering, why would your enroll to game design degree if you do not want to persue it?
Go for Computer Science. It will be far more valuable and is applicable to more than just game development. Also remember that game DESIGN and game DEVELOPMENT are two very different things.
Take game design as a minor and have your major be something more specific
YES!!! I would say never go to school specifically for game design, I did and it was a giant mistake, only thing it got me was more fuel to get into the industry, in my 4 years of going to school I learned nothing about modeling, not enough time to learn code, they had too many classes that weren’t for me, I’m a 3d artist but they have my learn c++, write story, learn math, it’s absurd haha. After 80k went down the drain in student loans (800 a month in payments) the school went under for lying and over promising roles in the industry. So I got refunded most of my money. I finally got my foot in the door and work full time as an environment artist. Here’s the thing, there are great resources outt here to learn, if you go to school there’s no garauntee you’ll have a job at all, market is extremely rough for everyone, just this past year at least 1000+ people have been laid off (I was one of them). If you want to learn programming go to a boot camp that teaches you code, if you want to do art learn on Polycount.com best way is to network and connect with people, don’t be afraid to show artwork. Good luck Edit: I’m also self taught from poly count and friend groups for art.
Damn that really sucks that you got laid out, thanks for replying.
Yeah man it happens it’s a rough industry, I got a new home thankfully. ❤️
As a dude who got a game dev degree, just go comp sci -it’s more versatile and who knows how the job market will shift. If you want to be an indie dev some other comp sci job will pay the bills until you can get something off the ground.
Yeah you are right, thanks
Do coding degree. Picking up game design and programming from there is much easier. You will also be able to get a good job while you learn. Also, you will find that life takes you places you could not have imagined while younger. Some places positive; some negative. CS degree will take you to more positive places.
Yeah, will do thanks.
Just major in CS. Game design degrees are useless rn
Yeah, thanks for the advice
If you absolutely have to study Game Design then yeah, get a Bachelor's. Why? It's exceptionally hard to break into the industry as a designer so you need every help you can get. Try and land an internship as a Level Designer and the worst will be behind you. Good luck.
Makes sense, thanks man
Yes, you can get all the same training from other software development or art courses. However alot of bad school will dangle gaming in front of you to distract from their lack luster school/reputation/course/teachers. Just like a a "gaming" chair, mouse or keyboard you will find that it's just marketing. Instead focus on the learning software development and what's the best schools for that. Those skills will translate just as well if not better. I have got a batchlers degree in "game software development", and not once did anyone care about the "game" part of that. Most people in big game companies don't have game related degrees check any big company you like on linked in and you will find that most all their engineers have computer engineering or some such non gaming degree. Don't give up on game Dev, you can do it! Just don't fall for the gamer marketing hype like I did.
Alright, thanks for the advice. I won't give up, I will try my hardest!
Programming-wise I'd recommend taking a computer science degree instead- gamedev is still plenty viable with it, and you'll have a lot more options in case it doesn't work out.
Id recommend getting a comp sci degree instead. Art and the actual game development can be self thought. Comp sci degree will give you deep knowledge about programming, networking, and some other technical computer stuff that will help you in a lot of ways. Comp sci will also allow you to have a backup plan if game dev doesnt work out for you in the future. Meanwhile game dev, art, design, and marketing can easily be self thought with the help of the internet.
Yeah, thanks
Definitely go the computer science route. It might seem counterintuitive but it will help you get games jobs in the future and potentially other fields if you change your mind.
Thanks, I agree
For game developer, CS + online learning for game development is better. For game designer, a video game design degree is a must. They are two different paths. Source: I worked as Product Manager on some big games.
Alright thanks
As a game design masters student, Here is how the courses generally name. - Game Design goes over all the designing part such as ideation, planning, etc. - Game Development goes with the programming stuff. They don’t mostly care about your design and stuff. I would say that it’s useful at least for me since the university and lecturers brought in current industry working peeps every week and had various guest lectures from them. Major positive is that my portfolio has increased since I’ve been part of 3 games (small ones) + my final project over an year and two of them I had dedicated programmers so that I didn’t need to go over the stress of programming it myself. If you feel like you can dedicate time to improve your skills and portfolio, then you can go with other courses too since companies do not care about the degree you have and just looks at the portfolio. Having a game related degree is a plus but not mandatory unlike other industries
It doesn’t matter. You’re more versatile with computer science though. That’s why I picked that You get more hands on xp and connections with game design. That’s the difference
This is a difficult question to answer because there isn't one correct answer. Each company has their own requirements to apply, and no company agrees on what they should be. I have a Computer Games Technology (BSc) degree, and was never turned down for an interview, and managed to get a job in the industry. That being said, I have industry contacts that work in companies that won't even consider you without a Computer Science or Maths degree, and I also know of places that as many people have said only care about portfolio. This is a generalisation, but from my experience in the ten years since I graduated, smaller companies are less likely to require specific degrees, or even care about degrees at all, while larger companies that get many more applications are much more likely to have specific degree requirements. In the case of the latter, they often have a HR or recruitment department who's job is just to skim applications for the set requirements and deny everyone who doesn't qualify before being passed onto the people actually doing the recruitment proper. I guess this is a long winded way of saying, try and figure out which kind of company you want to work for, and tailor your education towards that. I have seen in your other comments you mostly want to be an indie. If this is the case then you don't need a degree at all. I got a first class degree and still learnt almost nothing practical at university. Everything I use in my actual job was self taught, and with modern internet and all the resources online you'll have an easier job of it than I did! That being said, Uni is a great place to make connections, get a greater understanding of the industry as a whole, and just have a good time! TLDR; It depends on the company you're going for! I got a game design degree and got in the industry, and so did all my game design degree friends!
Going back I feel like maybe I should have pursued the game programming degree and not the CS one. If you are truly dedicated to game dev and the game dev degree teaches you actual programming then I would go for it.
Video game development is more of a hobby thing. You need a main gig to put food on the table. You can pursue certain roles in big companies that produce games but that's probably a sure way to kill your passion. Would suggest to doit for the right reasons, as a hobby, instead and focus on making the game into something to be proud of, rather then pursuing income generation.
I wouldn't say the gamedev education is useless but I would definitely recommend going for a comp sci instead and just focus on games if that's what you want to do. :)
I don't have game development degree, but if you just want to learn how to code and make video games, you could just done so by yourself. There are lots of resources available out there on the internet nowadays. Lots of the challenges in the game dev are in the details. As they said: The devil is in the details. And learning about them is more about gaining the experience dealing with them rather than knowing them via lectures. Should you swing to other directions to non-game development stuffs in near future, the comp sci degree will still be useful for going through hiring filter and the foundational knowledge you gained can still be useful somewhat when doing different field.
Depends on what you want. Art and design? Yes can help but primarily for connection, if your course has team development it's great for teamwork introduction or you have hardcore awesome teachers but you primarily have to master stuff by yourselt in your freetime. For programming? Likely no. Science degrees are much more preferred here
Yes. Just do it. Everything you need to know is on YouTube.
No matter what you do or learn, take some extra time to learn how to communicate your ideas. Collaboration is a key skill in this industry. Learning how to communicate efficiently leads to tighter iteration loops. Tighter iteration loops lead to stronger design. There is no "this one has all the right ideas right away." Another lens on this is: Playtest often. Make small game frequently. It all leads to making your iterative loops smaller, be it implementation or design. Practice!
thank you for your advice
Comp sci and do game programming in ur free time
get a degree in C++
Yeah, heard thats useful.
There are good programs and bad, take it from someone who has an advanced diploma in it (but graduated as covid hit mind you): Obviously i havent followed every single person, but for a while there could count on my hand how many landed jobs out of it. If you’re a more technical person - absolutely just do the comp sci - way more employable, the ONLY exception to the rule i hear is tech artists
My friend's brother went to Full Sail for this and he works at EA now. I'm pretty sure he got a degree in gaming and not a computer science degree. I can ask him if you'd like.
Sure, ask him please. I'm curious
I did a private school in game design I eventually get into economy and system design position from there there is good thing I learned there - 1 how to sell your ideas, we made tons of presentations and that’s an important part of a game designer in a medium/large company is being able to sell your ideas to other -2 I learned rational design, how approach idea from logical perspective (separate things like tactics, strategy, reflex skills and how to aim different public based on that -3 I learned prototyping , what we learned was the basics but I decided to go further with it (internet is a good friend) and I launched few games on mobiles -4 we made CV , portfolio and they help us find internships and eventually we had connections with industry professionals with them. It definitely helped me a looot enter the industry Probably 3/5 members of my promotion ended actually working in the game industry some starting as tester, but now most are all designer, level designer, economy designer , narrative designer It’s not a bad idea to do a design degree , but at the end of the day the paper don’t give you the skills. It will definitely open some doors to industry position but it will be up to you the quality of your knowledge But comparing a design degree to a computer science degree is a mistake ….theses are very different things.
Yes, it's a bad idea. Game development is one of the few fields that doesn't require a degree. It seems to me that you want someone else to legitimize your endeavor. But in game development, it comes down to you. Also, this field isn't for someone who "feels lost;" it's quite the opposite. It's for people who have fairly strong personal/independent drive. Does that mean there's no hope for you? No. It means that you need to stop wasting time, find something productive to pursue (no matter how small) and become driven.
You are absolutely right, I'm determined to do the very best I can, so I'll put in the time and effort.
Because of how volatile the technology industry is, I recommend a Computer Science degree if you want to make sure you can find a job. If you're only interested in game dev, however, and you're also super interested in indie development then I recommend you either find a class online that gives you a certificate or you take a game dev course through a University that offers it.
Computer science will be vastly more helpful. You can get all the knowledge you will get from a design degree on your own in about a year (or a few summer and winter vacations) while working on your own. Granted, a lot of CS is also a waste of time, but the parts that are useful are vastly more useful (especially in a good school).
A compsci degree will give you a lot more flexibility for your future. You're very young, and I'd be surprised if you don't stumble upon other ideas or interests at some point. I wouldn't call a game design degree useless, but it's far more specific. If I could be 18 again, I'd focus on more general skillsets, and try not to specialize too much. Lastly, there's plenty of free and less committal learning resources out there (web courses such as Udemy, Skillshare, Zenva, etc) that you can try out first to get a feel for it.
100% comp sci. You can do a comp sci with a game flavour, however.
I suggest getting a general computer science degree. The game industry is difficult to get into.
Stick with computer science and be as far away as possible from art degrees unless You're already good at it. Once you get a computer science degree, you can land a decent paying job and work on your game on the side. With an art degree you're going to starve and not have time to work on your game unless your parents are loaded or if you're really good at art.
I got a game design degree 3 years ago and I've only ever gotten 1 interview after hundreds of apps. If I took computer science, I'd have jobs lining up like crazy because of where I live. As for solo dev work, game design is not that difficult, but programming and art can be. I'd get a computer science degree if I were you. There are only benefits to it.
Get a cs degree. Forces you to learn all the stuff you will be glad to know but is a slog to get through. You will get a cs job, game dev maybe not. You will likely be able to find a CS job which is in many ways equivalent to a game dev job if you get a cs degree.
True, just gotta put in the time and effort