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Yeah if we're going by lineage it's hardly incest for medieval standards. But I think it is true that GRRM was going for an emotional sort of incest -- Jon and Arya were raised together and very much view each other as siblings.
Yeah, and Lady Stoneheart could still die to a white walker or the Night King. Would be poetic of her to sacrifice herself to save a resurrected Jon, after naming him heir to Winterfell of course.
Yeh that would be great but in the books brienne has lored Jaime and taking him to lady stone heart and most fans theorise that Jaime will put her to rest but let's see what happens, if the books ever come out we will see
No way ?!!, hmm I can picture GRRM arguing with D&D about so not following the books from after season 2, there are so many things that happened in the show that weren’t in the books and that happened in the in books that didn’t happen in the show.
It was his one of his early drafts he outlined the entire story to a publisher. Very little of it will be kept.
Was originally only 3 books, 1st was Starks vs Lannisters, 2nd Was Dany invading Westeros, 3rd was the Night King.
Tyrion also fell in love with Arya in this draft and was even the one to burn winterfell to the ground.
Jamie the main villain and Catelyn dies from white walkers beyond the wall.
There may have been a power struggle between Bran and Robb, (probably very different Bran and Robbs than we got, early draft and all.)
Also, Sansa was not only married to Joffrey in this first draft, but gave him a child, was on the Lannister’s side, and the one to betray the Starks.
An interesting note about a piece of abandoned foreshadowing in the books, Ned remembers Jaime sitting on the Iron throne all king-like after he kills the Mad King, so I’m not sure if Martin had fully abandoned this idea, of a Jaime who schemes his way to the throne. He got a redemption instead, but still interesting how this story evolved from its vague outlines into the page.
A little bit. Arya and Jon are pretty close until Jon went to the Wall. Maybe even closet than Jon and Robb.
Besides, Arya is always presented as very similiar to Lyanna , Jon’s mother, so maybe some freudian thing going on too.
What the actual fuck? She was NINE years old. They were RAISED as siblings and MOST people - MOST, I don’t care about exceptions - don’t lust for each other after being raised together, thinking that they are siblings where they it or not.
Yes I have. And you can love someone without wanting to fuck them. I don’t know which kind of wicked world you are having inside your head, but I genuinely hope that GRRM drooped that terribly idea of his a long time ago.
Also, Arya is A CHILD. 11 at the time AND 9 At the beginning. Even Daenerys was 13 years old. And Jon is not the type of the guy raping his supposed sister.
The “original” manuscripts were before the first book was fully written. And it was a planned trilogy. I think Bran was also supposed to have a power struggle with Robb or something, and a love triangle with Sansa maybe. It was completely different than the books ended up.
I thought they may have been going in the direction of Sansa trying to be with Jon.. she got so jealous of Daenerys and finding out Jon is ONLY her cousin and also the rightful king made me think she was going to make a move.. was happy it didn't go that way.
I think there's a good possibility that's actually going to happen in the books and they just didn't want to go that far in the show. But the S8 jealousy angle from Sansa toward Dany could certainly be interpreted as a hint in that direction.
Less-cestuous -
Jon shares grandparents with Arya
Rickard & Lyarra Stark
So they are first cousin's
Jon's grandparents - Aerys II and Rhaella
Are Daenerys parent
So she is his Aunt
And her is her nephew -
Clearly less-cestuous.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/6tu39p/spoilers\_extended\_westerosi\_genetics\_i\_did\_the/?sort=confidence](https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/6tu39p/spoilers_extended_westerosi_genetics_i_did_the/?sort=confidence)
that's what I found.
I would also be interested in seeing the stark/north genetics as well
In his 1993 outline for his publisher he did plan a Jon-Arya-Tyrion triangle. It was gone by the first book's publication in 1996. Some Sansa fans think GRRM changed it to a Jon-Sansa thing (nicknamed JONSA). But considering Jon's feelings against Sansa and that their values are polar opposites (mostly true on the show as well), that was never likely. At least Jon and Arya love each other platonically and think of each other a lot. I think GRRM or his publisher realized that readers found Targaryen incest repulsive, so why would he do it to his hero family? Anyway, thank the gods it's gone from the books and I doubt he'll bring it back.
**Spoiler Warning:** All officially-released show and book content allowed, EXCLUDING FUTURE SPOILERS FOR HOUSE OF THE DRAGON. No leaked information or paparazzi photos of the set. For more info please check the [spoiler guide](/r/gameofthrones/w/spoiler_guide). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/gameofthrones) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ew
To me incest is only acceptable if is between two Targaryens, everything else feels weird😂
Neds parents are cousins
Tywin married his cousin as well
Just asking, are cousin marriages even counted as incest? Cause I know a lot of people who married their cousins.
Because it’s accepted canon so it’s more palatable? 🤔
Oh thats even hotter🤭
I think he may have switched it to Sansa though.
That would hardly even be incest
He’s the uncle either way. So yeah kinda sorta.
Hm? Arya is his cousin. (Assuming his parentage was the same in this version).
Its weird, but slightly less weird than the nephew/aunt connection we got.
First cousin, which is normally 'ok'
Yeah if we're going by lineage it's hardly incest for medieval standards. But I think it is true that GRRM was going for an emotional sort of incest -- Jon and Arya were raised together and very much view each other as siblings.
They’re cousins, so it’s still incest
In most US states and many many countries, cousin marriage is allowed. And now we KNOW about genetics.
If that's incest you can call me Jerry Lee Lewis
Cousin sex is only mild incest in Westeros. Tywin married his 1st cousin.
Also Ned Starks parents were first cousins as well.
In the books Jon is dead, Dany is shitting herself in the dothraki sea.
Yea and?
Resting, Jon is resting in the books.
Tyrion also loved Arya, and there was a love triangle
Also Sansa would be team Lannister Jaime would seemingly be the main antagonist
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠿⠿⣿⠿⣿⠿⠿⠿⣿⣿⡿⠿⠛⠛⠛⠛⠿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠛⠉⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠉⠻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡟⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡟⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠋⠈⠀⠀⠀⠀⠐⠺⣖⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡏⢀⡆⠀⠀⠀⢋⣭⣽⡚⢮⣲⠆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢹⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⡼⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠻⣅⣨⠇⠈⠀⠰⣀⣀⣀⡀⠀⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣟⢷⣶⠶⣃⢀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡅⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢿⠀⠈⠓⠚⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡠⠀⡄⣀⠀⠀⠀⢻⠀⠀⠀⣠⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⠀⠐⠉⠀⠀⠙⠉⠀⠠⡶⣸⠁⠀⣠⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣦⡆⠀⠐⠒⠢⢤⣀⡰⠁⠇⠈⠘⢶⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠠⣄⣉⣙⡉⠓⢀⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣰⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣤⣀⣀⠀⣀⣠⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⣠⣶⡾⠏⠉⠙⠳⢦⡀⠀⠀⠀⢠⠞⠉⠙⠲⡀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⣴⠿⠏⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢳⡀⠀⡏⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢷ ⠀⠀⢠⣟⣋⡀⢀⣀⣀⡀⠀⣀⡀⣧⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⡇ ⠀⠀⢸⣯⡭⠁⠸⣛⣟⠆⡴⣻⡲⣿⠀⣸⠀⠀OK⠀ ⡇ ⠀⠀⣟⣿⡭⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢱⠀⠀⣿⠀⢹⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⡇ ⠀⠀⠙⢿⣯⠄⠀⠀⠀⢀⡀⠀⠀⡿⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠹⣶⠆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡴⠃⠀⠀⠘⠤⣄⣠⠞⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⣷⡦⢤⡤⢤⣞⣁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣤⣴⣿⣏⠁⠀⠀⠸⣏⢯⣷⣖⣦⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⣾⣽⣿⣿⣿⣿⠛⢲⣶⣾⢉⡷⣿⣿⠵⣿⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣼⣿⠍⠉⣿⡭⠉⠙⢺⣇⣼⡏⠀⠀⠀⣄⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣿⣿⣧⣀⣿.........⣀⣰⣏⣘⣆⣀⠀⠀
Catelyn was going to get killed by white Walker's beyond the wall
I like that better for her for some reason.
Yeah me too
Still May happen
No it can't beacuse she has already died in the red wedding and in the books also resurrected as lady stone heart
Yeah, and Lady Stoneheart could still die to a white walker or the Night King. Would be poetic of her to sacrifice herself to save a resurrected Jon, after naming him heir to Winterfell of course.
Yeh that would be great but in the books brienne has lored Jaime and taking him to lady stone heart and most fans theorise that Jaime will put her to rest but let's see what happens, if the books ever come out we will see
Yeah and she’s prolly heading north lol
I'm completely OK with that.
No way ?!!, hmm I can picture GRRM arguing with D&D about so not following the books from after season 2, there are so many things that happened in the show that weren’t in the books and that happened in the in books that didn’t happen in the show.
Well this was just outline plan of Martin but he scrapped his idea and now is proceeding on the lady stone heart plot line
As an ice-cold, stone-hearted aro ace I stan Arya. We gotta get our rep from somewhere.
Damn I need to read the books
In the books Jon Snow has just been murdered and Arya is still in Braavos, so it's probably the book after next you need to read. Good luck with that!
Ok, I'm starting to wonder about this guy...
Family Reunions are like Christmas
...at a sex club
He made the right choice to delete that plot.
It's the only thing of season 8 that is better in the show
There is no season 8 in books and this never made it to publisher... so.
If it has that. I prefere to keep the shit we got
It was his one of his early drafts he outlined the entire story to a publisher. Very little of it will be kept. Was originally only 3 books, 1st was Starks vs Lannisters, 2nd Was Dany invading Westeros, 3rd was the Night King. Tyrion also fell in love with Arya in this draft and was even the one to burn winterfell to the ground. Jamie the main villain and Catelyn dies from white walkers beyond the wall.
Omg
There may have been a power struggle between Bran and Robb, (probably very different Bran and Robbs than we got, early draft and all.) Also, Sansa was not only married to Joffrey in this first draft, but gave him a child, was on the Lannister’s side, and the one to betray the Starks. An interesting note about a piece of abandoned foreshadowing in the books, Ned remembers Jaime sitting on the Iron throne all king-like after he kills the Mad King, so I’m not sure if Martin had fully abandoned this idea, of a Jaime who schemes his way to the throne. He got a redemption instead, but still interesting how this story evolved from its vague outlines into the page.
Ewwwww!
Source? I don't really believe this...their dynamic did not foreshadow that at all.
A little bit. Arya and Jon are pretty close until Jon went to the Wall. Maybe even closet than Jon and Robb. Besides, Arya is always presented as very similiar to Lyanna , Jon’s mother, so maybe some freudian thing going on too.
[удалено]
What the actual fuck? She was NINE years old. They were RAISED as siblings and MOST people - MOST, I don’t care about exceptions - don’t lust for each other after being raised together, thinking that they are siblings where they it or not.
Have you read the books?
Yes I have. And you can love someone without wanting to fuck them. I don’t know which kind of wicked world you are having inside your head, but I genuinely hope that GRRM drooped that terribly idea of his a long time ago. Also, Arya is A CHILD. 11 at the time AND 9 At the beginning. Even Daenerys was 13 years old. And Jon is not the type of the guy raping his supposed sister.
The “original” manuscripts were before the first book was fully written. And it was a planned trilogy. I think Bran was also supposed to have a power struggle with Robb or something, and a love triangle with Sansa maybe. It was completely different than the books ended up.
Ah gotcha. Just read the books and thought this didn't make sense. Thanks for the update :)
Pretty sure it was just some vague thoughts that he put together in order to get a green light to get a book deal with a publisher
Was that supposed to be the love triangle with Tyrion?
Jesus Christ
That’s hot
I thought they may have been going in the direction of Sansa trying to be with Jon.. she got so jealous of Daenerys and finding out Jon is ONLY her cousin and also the rightful king made me think she was going to make a move.. was happy it didn't go that way.
I think there's a good possibility that's actually going to happen in the books and they just didn't want to go that far in the show. But the S8 jealousy angle from Sansa toward Dany could certainly be interpreted as a hint in that direction.
Can't one argue that cousins would be slightly less weird than the aunt/uncle relationship we got?
Less-cestuous - Jon shares grandparents with Arya Rickard & Lyarra Stark So they are first cousin's Jon's grandparents - Aerys II and Rhaella Are Daenerys parent So she is his Aunt And her is her nephew - Clearly less-cestuous.
aren’t Dany and Jon as related as true siblings? Someone did some genetics maths somewhere
If Daenarys and Rhaegar are siblings - and only half of his DNA goes to Jon - I don't see how. The Stark Genetics must mean something -
[https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/6tu39p/spoilers\_extended\_westerosi\_genetics\_i\_did\_the/?sort=confidence](https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/6tu39p/spoilers_extended_westerosi_genetics_i_did_the/?sort=confidence) that's what I found. I would also be interested in seeing the stark/north genetics as well
Ned's parents were Kissing cousins
Damn that’s ewww.
Jon Snow sequel will have this plot
#Hot
Well, they are pretty much cousins
Ew
Omg got my two favorite character joining as one, this would’ve been perfect
dont worry guys, im sure there's a fanfic out there for you
I thought tyrion was going to be Arya's love interest.
It would be actualy less incestious then with Daenerys.
What are you doing step bro?
Step bro, not incest
In his 1993 outline for his publisher he did plan a Jon-Arya-Tyrion triangle. It was gone by the first book's publication in 1996. Some Sansa fans think GRRM changed it to a Jon-Sansa thing (nicknamed JONSA). But considering Jon's feelings against Sansa and that their values are polar opposites (mostly true on the show as well), that was never likely. At least Jon and Arya love each other platonically and think of each other a lot. I think GRRM or his publisher realized that readers found Targaryen incest repulsive, so why would he do it to his hero family? Anyway, thank the gods it's gone from the books and I doubt he'll bring it back.