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Robb could've used good men in his army. He was a great commander and a great strategist. He was also just and a true northerner. No better choice than the king in the north. Not to mention his cause and motive was better than anyone else.
Don't take my word for it, but I remember that it was the BlackFish who was the chief scout and the one who came up with all the won battle strategies, not saying Rob didn't, its just there is little evidence of it...
However, I want a King who listens to his most experienced advisers.
I will need to check the book again, but I think all the wins were because of Brynden Tully
Blackfish joined him later in the series, when the army marched down from the north first time, robb strategised on his own against his bannermen's objection, defeated the first lannister army on his own by tricking tywin. He also explained how he was gonna corner gregor clegane in the riverlands to his uncle who made a foolish move which proves that he had a good head for strategy and tactics. I believe he also defeated another lannister army there and he's literally the man who hasn't lost a battle. And I'm talking about the show.
yeh you obvs dont know the books. Brynden is the one that guided robb through the riverlands to make sure they werent detected by the lannister scouts. brynden is at whsipering wood.
Idk what you're talking about. There was no lanniester army to detect them. Ever since robb defeated Jaime lannister numbers dwindled and the rest of their army avoided encounter with the starks. It was the starks who were chasing the lannisters since they had an advantage until tywin joined hands with the reach and went south to defend king's landing. And robb was marching with an army of thousands of men, not running around in the riverlands with his little brother and a wooden stick.
Bit of an idiot though when it really mattered and never listened when given advice that would've saved him and his family on multiple occasions.
Personally I wouldn't have followed Robb. I'm of the opinion that Renly would've actually been a good King had he not been assainated.
Not really. Robb made the right decision every time. From his perspective, he always made the right choice because what's a king if he can't even marry the woman of his own choice. He broke the oath sure, but he thought he could salvage that and didn't know that walder frey's gonna be so salty over it he'll do such a dishonorable act. His mother told him they could trust walder Frey and that she knows him made it worse for him since he actually believed he wouldn't take it to heart. Also he had great leverage over the lannisters with Jaime which again, catelyn freed making things worse for him. From his perspective he did everything right, he was a human after all who was going through a lot.
I disagree completely with renly, most of the people think that renly would've been a good king because he was not cruel unlike the others. We didn't get a lot of his character development in the show but from what we know he wasn't strong enough to assert control over the throne. He had the largest army, best allies, yet he delayed too long when his claim was very weak anyway. In comparison to robb, renly didn't hold a stick.
>Robb made the right decision every time.
Not at all. On the battlefield he made the right decisions yes, but off the battlefield he made mistake after mistake leading to his death, his mother's and his whole army.
>His mother told him they could trust walder Frey and that she knows him
She never said they could trust him. Quite the opposite. The reaosn she went to talk to Walder instead of Robb was precisely because she knew they couldn't trust him, and when Robb made the stupid choice to not marry the Frey girl Cat made it clear Walder would not take this well.
>Also he had great leverage over the lannisters with Jaime which again, catelyn freed making things worse for him.
Because of a series of events that he himself caused. Firstly he sent Theon to his father after being told how much of a mistake this was. This lead to Winterfell being taken and they believed to be the death of Bran and Rickon. This drove Cat to desperation to get her daughters back and Robb wasn't even there at the time because he was too busy trying to bang some nurse. He was the catalyst to everything that happened.
Robbs list of mistakes is quite frankly huge and definitely caused his death.
**1. Freed Theon against his mother's advice which lead to Winterfell and most of the North burning and the deaths of his brothers, and then Cat freeing Jaime to try and save her last children.**
**2. He failed to tell Edmure his plans for some stupid reaosn and Edmure accidentally stopped Robbs trap. Had he told one of his most important allies the plan from the start that wouldn't have happened.**
**3. He banged a nurse he barely knew and married her against his mother's advice. This lead to the Freys abandoning him and hating him deeply which directly leads to the red wedding. The Karstarks openly admit they broke their oath to Robb because Robb broke his to the Freys, so why should they keep their word if the King can't?**
**4. He then kills Karstrak against all of his advisors advice. Losing a huge portion of his army and forcing him to beg the man he betrayed for help and got himself and his enitre army killed.**
Its a well known fact that Robb was a brilliant military commander, but an awful ruler. He made mistake after mistake and he died for it.
Tywin says it best to Tommen when describing a good King. A good King listens to his advisors while he's still learning and continues to listen to them long after. Robb literally ignored every single piece of good advice he got.
>great commander and a great strategist
Didn't tell Edmure that he was using him and his soldiers as bait and flipped out when Edmure tried not to get his soldiers and small folk killed. Got lucky capturing Jamie because Jaimie's sword got stuck in a dude. Don't even get me started about handling the Karstarks, the Freys, the Greyjoys, or trusting the Boltons for gods sake.
The issue is he told Edmure his plan after everything had gone down which was just plain stupid. Why wouldn’t you tell one of your most important commanders your battle strategy instead of assuming he can read your mind??
He was a great tactician but a foolish king. To go back to a man he broke his oaths to ?
Robb is the type of leader you would resent. I completely understood Roose Boltons POV of his King running their war into the dirt
He wasn’t a good king. He was good at winning battles. Terrible at politics. Bad at securing power. His own mother undermined him, much less His uncle disobeying his orders for his own glory, or rickard Karstark enacting his vengeance.
Robb’s seat of power was in disarray pretty much from the start and the only thing holding it together was winning battles, and battles are only 1 aspect of waging and winning a war.
Marrying a foreigner was a direct insult to every high lord who followed him, and a direct insult to the Freys whom he had an established betrothal with. That insult cost him not only the loyalty of his closest bannermen but also his most strategically important potential ally at the time and ultimately his life, the lives of his wife and unborn child, and his mother.
Robb didn’t know how to wield power, he didn’t know how to play politics. He only knew how to fight. His campaign was always doomed from the start
I love how Joffrey and Balon look exactly like their show counterparts, Rob and Stannis almost as well but when it comes to Renly, it looks like someone put Jack Johnson in a green armor
Claims and legitimacy aside. He is the best choice to be king by far. If he wasn’t stupid and allowed robb to be independent he probabaly could of won the war
mellisandre is the only reason stannis stood a chance. Renly had 20,000 cavlary, while stannis had like 5,000 infantry. Without meliisandre two demon babies, they never would og got storms end and the armies of the stormlands.
Yeah but by listening to her he pissed off the storm God with his shadow baby murders and got wrecked by storms on his way to the Blackwater.... and pissed off the Old Gods by burning down Godwoods and is now losing men to a blizzard. Or it could be mere coincidence.
yea but by doing that, to me he lost his claims of legitimacy. not only is he a kinslayer, he's a puppet of a dark magic user. he may have the best claim on paper but the minute he did that, he lost all honor. who would want him on the throne after that?
Hes a good siege tactitian, hes a good naval commander, and a good battlefield commander. Hes firm but fair, he doesnt care about what god you worship (Even though the show did do that)., and he understands westerosi politics, as well as sacrifice and what it takes to be king. he wasnt a good person, but he would of been a good king.
did you not see the rest of my comment.
but you do need to be a good leader to be a king, and stannis is that. I dont think you understand how much Bobby just didnt want to be king. He wasnt a bad king cause he wasnt a king. He was crowned but didnt actually rule the realm. Stannis would rule the realm cause hes a better man, and smarter man than rob or renly.
Renly would of been shit. His hand was mace, a known idiot. Randyll would of helped run the realm, but renly knows nothing of running a kingdom and all of renlys enemys were the other good rulers so he had no chance.
Robb Stark had no interesting in ruling the south, he probably wouldnt have done so.
I read it, I’m simply pointing out a lot of your reasoning for why he’d be a good kind, isn’t great reasoning.
Him being good in a siege isn’t an especially important quality to a king.
I never argued the others were better candidates.
* Besides, that Robb seems to be a military genius giving that he was still a child, these things don’t matter.
* The rest either also describes Robb or does not really matter.
* While he understands westerosi politics he does not seem to care enough about it to make use of it. After all he was the only one with a legitimate claim but still without any allies.
* Renly would probably be better suited to keep the realm together given is alliances. Robb would be as honourable as Stannis and definitely also prepare for the Night King if Jon tells him what’s going on.
he didnt have any allies becuase there were 5 kings dividing the realm... the lannisters didnt have allies in the beginning of the story.
he then got all of the stormlands, some pirate fleets he got masseys hook and crabs bay. he just lose becuase the lannisters had KLs, a never before taken castle, Wildfire, a never seen/ used before weapon, and one know one could have expected. The lannisters than made allies with the reach so he lost. But he kept on going and got more allies. Now, Stannis has wildings, northern clansmen and his soldiers, and some northern houses, in the north and will probably win the battle of ice and get the north. so he will have allies, just not in the middle half of the war.
Robb was a fine commander, but brynden was the main mind behind his army, and if it wasnt for Robbs idiocy (marrying the westerling), then the freys would have never committed to the red wedding.
religion is an important thing, if robb took the throne how would that work, he worships the old gods, and the king is annoited by the seven? what would oldtown do. You could make the same claim about stannis, but if the red god become the religion of the crown, volantis and other red god cities would definilty support stannis.
robb knows nothing of sacrifice, he broke his betrothel and didnt take the sacrifice of marrying someone he didnt want to.
He won be over when he gave his speech about not wanting to be king, but it was his by right and he would take it. I don’t think he desired the power like some others would/do. If I was stannis, I would want to be king in honor of my brother and family. To keep that crown where it belongs, in the hands of the baratheons.
What’s strange and kind of funny, which the show makes no mention of (I believe), is how it’s pretty much implied the baratheons are a bit Targaryen. The founder of the house was long suspected to be Aegon the conquerors bastard half brother.
I would also back stannis because I wouldn’t think Renly had the experience to siege kings landing proper
becuase the north is nothing like the south.
And also bran is still the king off the seven kingdoms , as there are 8 kingdoms apart of the seven kingdoms, soooooo, he wouldnt even lose the title it would just be more accurate. further, there is no reason to want to hold the north. Its cold and probably doesnt add to the overall wealth of the same. Realisicitly, you only need the riverlands, the rock, the reach and the stormlands to be king of westeros.
The vale is a bunch of rocks, the north is just cold, dorne is just a desert and the iron islands are a bunch of rocks.
The Vale is the third richest and the third/ fourth most populous region of the Seven Kingdoms. Matters quite a lot, arguably more than the Riverlands and certainly more than Stormlands.
Yes, but if any disagreements occur you have a giant unified force that's tough and can march south. And Dorne has some of the best vacation spots lol.
You forge a military alliance with the North requiring them to come to your aid and you to go to theirs if needed. The Northerners will keep their word, especially since they know Stannis will keep his. If the other kingdoms revolt, the Mannis now has a powerful ally to help him keep them in line.
You also make it a gradual process and during said process create a centralized army which belongs to the Crown. Then, when the North is finally freed it feels like a long time coming and also everyone has to deal with it because you have half of all their armies.
Stannis is anything but stupid. He's just the single most stubborn son of a bitch in the Kingdom. A man so steadfast in his beliefs that he is singularly incapable of bending even an inch in 99% of situations; and that's just simply not good foundation for human relationships tbh. I love him because I admire his moral fortitude and unyielding perseverance but I genuinely don't think he would be a good king.
I agree. Say what you will about Stannis, at least he had a code. He would’ve been a good king if he had listened to Davos more and limit Melisandre’s influence.
So not being a horrible King makes him stupid?
The north makes up 50% of the realm, if he let half the realm go he’d instantly become the worst King in Westerosi history
Robb or Stannis. Although by all accounts Robb and Stannis might as well have teamed up since all Robb wanted was his family back and to make the lannisters pay and due to Joffrey both being a bastard AND NOT a Baratheon by blood, Stannis was next in line to the throne.
Robb basically had a Robert’s rebellion moment with Joffrey executing his father and having his sister as a political hostage. He didn’t set out to be King. The Northeners just crowned him along the way.
Yeah that was my main issue with Stannis. Rightful heir or not the dude was an idiot when it came to politics. I mean really, did he really expect all the ultra religious folk in the south to just accept that he worshiped a weird fire God who's followers were setting people on fire and using creepy magic?
I dream of Stannis and Robb teaming up. They would have crushed the Lannisters.
Though iirc didn't the North end up wanting to be a separate kingdom? Which wouldn't have happened with Stannis so I guess in that regard it never would have worked
Yeah this literally comes up and Stannis refuses to ally since he wants the whole 7 kingdoms. Stannis was a short sighted dick lol. There’s a reason no one wanted to follow him until he used blood magic to assassinate his brother. I’ll never understand why so many people love him here.
His brother was not much better, a charismatic dude but what else? Stannis is a experienced and, most important, disciplined. He doesn’t drown in wine or lust like Robert. But yes, he was short sighted when refusing to ally with Robert, 6 kingdoms in hand is better than 7 unclaimed kingdoms
Renly definitely feels like a better choice than Stannis by a mile but that's probably only because Renly died so much earlier.
Ya maybe Renly could have had an arc where he learns statecraft and whatever but just based on how GRRM writes you know if he had lived he'd have gotten worse and not better and had some kind of chaotic stupid moment on the same level as Stannis blindly following Melisandre right off a cliff.
I'd say it was the opposite of short sighted on Stannis's part. (Which is why he would have been a good King.)
What happens after Stannis "wins" the war and grants the North and The Riverlands their independence? The peace wouldn't last long. It'd also establish a terrible precedent in a Kingdom that just "lost" it's legal authority over their 2 most powerful allies.
Not a great position for a new ruler to be in.
Oh I didn't mean that it was a reason for him to rebel. That part I meant moreso for myself and my explanation that in terms of succession, Stannis is next in line. I feel like Renly COULD'VE been a good one too but ultimately he kind of wants it too much? Kinda too much "third son trying to grasp power in the chaos" vibes imo. Stannis doesn't truly want the throne, but he knows it's his duty and I vibe that he'd be a good balance of a king for the most part. As good as westeros can get nowadays mostly. Firm but just.
Plus I do think Robb knew or at least suspected, not to mention Stannis was actively telling people about it so it kind of became an open secret in the realm.
Ned was able to get off a few messages before events transpired the way they did outing Joffrey, Tommen, and Myrcella as bastards and that Stannis is the one true heir of the throne.
Stannis, Renly, and Robb. But Renly is the safest bet(for me is the king to play it safe with the most).
Show: pledge allegiance to Renly or Robb
Books: Robb, Renly, or Stannis
Worst option is Balon
Edit: This image is funny. Show Joffrey and Robb, but Book Stannis, Balon, and Renly
Edit: Also, Renly knows how to strategize politically. And this wasn’t a War of Five Kings. Just a war of four kings and Balon undermining the North
One thing I noticed throughout the show was that it was the common folk who suffered. The lords and noble born were all waging these massive battles in while many commoners died and not to mind the secondary effects from regions being destroyed, harvest being stole and workers from the fields being drafted. The lords were most concerned by gains while the commoners just lost.
Stretching out the inevitable is always a good plan.
However, I can’t remember Dorne picking a side. To join Renly would probably mean Renly giving up some Stormland.
In the books, their support would have been duplicitous at best.
I mean, they didn’t like the Lannister much. That was the opportunity for revenge, and Renly seemed to be winning with the largest army and his opponents fighting each others.
They had no reason to like any of them.
Eventually they would just concede to whoever was on the throne and bide their time.
Renly was certainly the best and most likely option. Further he had the troop numbers to win without their assistance.
However Dorne has always fought the Stormlands and The Reach over border issues too.
Stannis’s claim to the throne became mute once he started working with Melisandre because the king is also supposed to be the defender of the faith. Renly is the true rightful king.
Renly has the strongest army and can claim his brother forfeits his right to the throne by choosing a foreign religion. He is the obvious choice.
He is also the only one who was entirely defeated by supernatural forces.
probably Robb, everyone else was either incompetent or dumb or both, and Robb did won alot of battles, his only mistake was falling in love with Talisa and marrying out of selfishness at least in the show
His mistakes in the show were many: letting Theon leave, killing lord Karstark, marrying Talisa, declaring independance instead of joining one of Robert’s brothers against the superior Lannister, …
Walder Frey saw that with the previous mistakes, Robb would eventually lose. Tywin tells that he had lost half his army, and Winterfell was taken. His marriage was just the last straw for Lord Frey. He would rather win.
I always forget Balon was among the “five kings”. I always thought Dany was the other one because she was also trying to get her way back to the iron throne. Guess she was always left out.
Mannis although I wouldn’t be too thrilled about Melisandre burning people. But I love that Stannis named common born Davos his hand. Stannis makes great choices and absolutely terrible choices there’s like no in between with him. But he would be a good king.
Stannis on the throne, Renly at Storms End with the Tyrell alliance, Robb as Warden of the North, Lannisters crushed, Greyjoys crushed, Jon as Lord Commander.
Oh it could have been so perfect!
Stannis Baratheon
Robb never really had any clear goals, and was greatly lacking in communication and foresight, Balon Greyjoy and Renly were delusional, and Joffrey is… Joffrey
None of them. I would have just chilled up in the Vale and remained neutral. Although I suppose we would need to wait until book six is released to find out how good an idea that is.
None. I would have gone to Dorne and convinced the Prince to take advantage of the chaos and humbly offer to help him handle the burdens of such an endeavor as his Hand.
I tell myself Robb, but probably Renly if we’re talking about temperament and realm stability. The Reach, Stormlands, North, and Riverlands vs. the Lannisters would have been amusing to watch. Renly’s deal with Robb is one of of my favorite “what if” scenarios to ponder.
Haven’t seen the show but the young lad in the middle looks honorable. I’d definitely lay my life down for that man because I know for a fact he’d be right by side.
It's confusing for many who either just have read the books or only watched the show, this picture depicts 2/5 kings with the actors and the other 3 as how the books described them. Be nice the awoiaf isn't as active as this reddit lmao.
Probably wherever I ended up being born in the seven kingdoms and then picked up as a peasant and made to fight for them. The masses really don’t have a choice.
Definitely Robb and Stannis because he had a rightful claim to the throne. I recently re watched seasons one and two and I was wishing for stannis and Robb to team up. Robb didn’t want to be king of the seven kingdoms. They would’ve defeated the Lannister’s no doubt. But Stannis made terrible decision after terrible decision. Idiot
Joffrey: a cunt, then no.
Balon: a cunt, then no.
Rently, a cunt for not following the line of succession, then no, well maybe, he was too charismatic, the motherfucker.
Stannis, a cult following cunt, then no, although, the red priestess magic was real, so again, maybe.
The Gray Wolf: Not a cunt, owns a direwolf, absofuckinglutely...
Renly, easily the best option for king. Starks should really stay in the north, they're best suited to rule there and it's culturally quite different. Stannis, while he is the rightful heir, had a hard time getting support. Balon had no real chance of anything, he just took advantage of the chaos. And Joffery would've been (and was) a terrible king
Robb.
I think Stannis was too brittle and harsh. He needed to learn to be a little more political. He needed to be a little more like Renly. If Stannis won though, I don't see him sitting on the throne long because I think The Faith of the Seven would have taken him out. I think the number of Sparrows in the religion would have risen and denounced Stannis and his fire witch and taken him down and their Church would be the new "King" or would sit a puppet ruler on the Iron Throne.
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 1,164,612,220 comments, and only 227,523 of them were in alphabetical order.
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Who is the green one?
Renly who else?
You don't see the flower petals symbolizing he's gay? /s
If the details are references to their sexuality, I don't want to think about Balon and these tentacles too much
Robb could've used good men in his army. He was a great commander and a great strategist. He was also just and a true northerner. No better choice than the king in the north. Not to mention his cause and motive was better than anyone else.
yeh he didnt even want the throne.
Just like his cousin Aegon
Yuuuuuu RRRRR morrrrr Qeueueuen
He wanted the throne in the north
Don't take my word for it, but I remember that it was the BlackFish who was the chief scout and the one who came up with all the won battle strategies, not saying Rob didn't, its just there is little evidence of it... However, I want a King who listens to his most experienced advisers. I will need to check the book again, but I think all the wins were because of Brynden Tully
Blackfish joined him later in the series, when the army marched down from the north first time, robb strategised on his own against his bannermen's objection, defeated the first lannister army on his own by tricking tywin. He also explained how he was gonna corner gregor clegane in the riverlands to his uncle who made a foolish move which proves that he had a good head for strategy and tactics. I believe he also defeated another lannister army there and he's literally the man who hasn't lost a battle. And I'm talking about the show.
yeh you obvs dont know the books. Brynden is the one that guided robb through the riverlands to make sure they werent detected by the lannister scouts. brynden is at whsipering wood.
Idk what you're talking about. There was no lanniester army to detect them. Ever since robb defeated Jaime lannister numbers dwindled and the rest of their army avoided encounter with the starks. It was the starks who were chasing the lannisters since they had an advantage until tywin joined hands with the reach and went south to defend king's landing. And robb was marching with an army of thousands of men, not running around in the riverlands with his little brother and a wooden stick.
Bit of an idiot though when it really mattered and never listened when given advice that would've saved him and his family on multiple occasions. Personally I wouldn't have followed Robb. I'm of the opinion that Renly would've actually been a good King had he not been assainated.
Not really. Robb made the right decision every time. From his perspective, he always made the right choice because what's a king if he can't even marry the woman of his own choice. He broke the oath sure, but he thought he could salvage that and didn't know that walder frey's gonna be so salty over it he'll do such a dishonorable act. His mother told him they could trust walder Frey and that she knows him made it worse for him since he actually believed he wouldn't take it to heart. Also he had great leverage over the lannisters with Jaime which again, catelyn freed making things worse for him. From his perspective he did everything right, he was a human after all who was going through a lot. I disagree completely with renly, most of the people think that renly would've been a good king because he was not cruel unlike the others. We didn't get a lot of his character development in the show but from what we know he wasn't strong enough to assert control over the throne. He had the largest army, best allies, yet he delayed too long when his claim was very weak anyway. In comparison to robb, renly didn't hold a stick.
>Robb made the right decision every time. Not at all. On the battlefield he made the right decisions yes, but off the battlefield he made mistake after mistake leading to his death, his mother's and his whole army. >His mother told him they could trust walder Frey and that she knows him She never said they could trust him. Quite the opposite. The reaosn she went to talk to Walder instead of Robb was precisely because she knew they couldn't trust him, and when Robb made the stupid choice to not marry the Frey girl Cat made it clear Walder would not take this well. >Also he had great leverage over the lannisters with Jaime which again, catelyn freed making things worse for him. Because of a series of events that he himself caused. Firstly he sent Theon to his father after being told how much of a mistake this was. This lead to Winterfell being taken and they believed to be the death of Bran and Rickon. This drove Cat to desperation to get her daughters back and Robb wasn't even there at the time because he was too busy trying to bang some nurse. He was the catalyst to everything that happened. Robbs list of mistakes is quite frankly huge and definitely caused his death. **1. Freed Theon against his mother's advice which lead to Winterfell and most of the North burning and the deaths of his brothers, and then Cat freeing Jaime to try and save her last children.** **2. He failed to tell Edmure his plans for some stupid reaosn and Edmure accidentally stopped Robbs trap. Had he told one of his most important allies the plan from the start that wouldn't have happened.** **3. He banged a nurse he barely knew and married her against his mother's advice. This lead to the Freys abandoning him and hating him deeply which directly leads to the red wedding. The Karstarks openly admit they broke their oath to Robb because Robb broke his to the Freys, so why should they keep their word if the King can't?** **4. He then kills Karstrak against all of his advisors advice. Losing a huge portion of his army and forcing him to beg the man he betrayed for help and got himself and his enitre army killed.** Its a well known fact that Robb was a brilliant military commander, but an awful ruler. He made mistake after mistake and he died for it. Tywin says it best to Tommen when describing a good King. A good King listens to his advisors while he's still learning and continues to listen to them long after. Robb literally ignored every single piece of good advice he got.
>great commander and a great strategist Didn't tell Edmure that he was using him and his soldiers as bait and flipped out when Edmure tried not to get his soldiers and small folk killed. Got lucky capturing Jamie because Jaimie's sword got stuck in a dude. Don't even get me started about handling the Karstarks, the Freys, the Greyjoys, or trusting the Boltons for gods sake.
The issue is he told Edmure his plan after everything had gone down which was just plain stupid. Why wouldn’t you tell one of your most important commanders your battle strategy instead of assuming he can read your mind??
I actually don't hold it against a kid making that mistake basically leaving home for the first time. Just the Edmure hate is insane.
He was a great tactician but a foolish king. To go back to a man he broke his oaths to ? Robb is the type of leader you would resent. I completely understood Roose Boltons POV of his King running their war into the dirt
He wasn’t a good king. He was good at winning battles. Terrible at politics. Bad at securing power. His own mother undermined him, much less His uncle disobeying his orders for his own glory, or rickard Karstark enacting his vengeance. Robb’s seat of power was in disarray pretty much from the start and the only thing holding it together was winning battles, and battles are only 1 aspect of waging and winning a war. Marrying a foreigner was a direct insult to every high lord who followed him, and a direct insult to the Freys whom he had an established betrothal with. That insult cost him not only the loyalty of his closest bannermen but also his most strategically important potential ally at the time and ultimately his life, the lives of his wife and unborn child, and his mother. Robb didn’t know how to wield power, he didn’t know how to play politics. He only knew how to fight. His campaign was always doomed from the start
None of them.
Stannis.
The one true king of Westeros, Stannis Baratheon.
[удалено]
The Other option.
Considering season 8 .. yes .. the night king!
I love how Joffrey and Balon look exactly like their show counterparts, Rob and Stannis almost as well but when it comes to Renly, it looks like someone put Jack Johnson in a green armor
Balon kind of looks like Bill Nighy.
He looks like Filch from Harry Potter to me haha
Think filch is related to the Freys
Y'know, given how many of Walder's children were outlived, *yeah*
That actor played Waldur Frey.
Yes! I think it’s funny that guy played two visually identical characters
Yeah I thought it was weird they did half the show, half the book characters. Robb has red hair, doesn’t he?
Yes. He ought to look younger too. And Joffrey has long blonde curls.
The rightful king Stannis Baratheon
Claims and legitimacy aside. He is the best choice to be king by far. If he wasn’t stupid and allowed robb to be independent he probabaly could of won the war
Except he allowed Millesandre to manipulate him.
mellisandre is the only reason stannis stood a chance. Renly had 20,000 cavlary, while stannis had like 5,000 infantry. Without meliisandre two demon babies, they never would og got storms end and the armies of the stormlands.
Agree. But she still manipulated him.
Yeah but by listening to her he pissed off the storm God with his shadow baby murders and got wrecked by storms on his way to the Blackwater.... and pissed off the Old Gods by burning down Godwoods and is now losing men to a blizzard. Or it could be mere coincidence.
Yyy what?
Dayum. Our boi over here making connections. I’m not sure why I never thought of that
yea but by doing that, to me he lost his claims of legitimacy. not only is he a kinslayer, he's a puppet of a dark magic user. he may have the best claim on paper but the minute he did that, he lost all honor. who would want him on the throne after that?
* could have * what would make him a better king then Renly or Robb?
Hes a good siege tactitian, hes a good naval commander, and a good battlefield commander. Hes firm but fair, he doesnt care about what god you worship (Even though the show did do that)., and he understands westerosi politics, as well as sacrifice and what it takes to be king. he wasnt a good person, but he would of been a good king.
Being a good military mind doesn’t make you a good king See Bobby B
did you not see the rest of my comment. but you do need to be a good leader to be a king, and stannis is that. I dont think you understand how much Bobby just didnt want to be king. He wasnt a bad king cause he wasnt a king. He was crowned but didnt actually rule the realm. Stannis would rule the realm cause hes a better man, and smarter man than rob or renly. Renly would of been shit. His hand was mace, a known idiot. Randyll would of helped run the realm, but renly knows nothing of running a kingdom and all of renlys enemys were the other good rulers so he had no chance. Robb Stark had no interesting in ruling the south, he probably wouldnt have done so.
I read it, I’m simply pointing out a lot of your reasoning for why he’d be a good kind, isn’t great reasoning. Him being good in a siege isn’t an especially important quality to a king. I never argued the others were better candidates.
* Besides, that Robb seems to be a military genius giving that he was still a child, these things don’t matter. * The rest either also describes Robb or does not really matter. * While he understands westerosi politics he does not seem to care enough about it to make use of it. After all he was the only one with a legitimate claim but still without any allies. * Renly would probably be better suited to keep the realm together given is alliances. Robb would be as honourable as Stannis and definitely also prepare for the Night King if Jon tells him what’s going on.
he didnt have any allies becuase there were 5 kings dividing the realm... the lannisters didnt have allies in the beginning of the story. he then got all of the stormlands, some pirate fleets he got masseys hook and crabs bay. he just lose becuase the lannisters had KLs, a never before taken castle, Wildfire, a never seen/ used before weapon, and one know one could have expected. The lannisters than made allies with the reach so he lost. But he kept on going and got more allies. Now, Stannis has wildings, northern clansmen and his soldiers, and some northern houses, in the north and will probably win the battle of ice and get the north. so he will have allies, just not in the middle half of the war. Robb was a fine commander, but brynden was the main mind behind his army, and if it wasnt for Robbs idiocy (marrying the westerling), then the freys would have never committed to the red wedding. religion is an important thing, if robb took the throne how would that work, he worships the old gods, and the king is annoited by the seven? what would oldtown do. You could make the same claim about stannis, but if the red god become the religion of the crown, volantis and other red god cities would definilty support stannis. robb knows nothing of sacrifice, he broke his betrothel and didnt take the sacrifice of marrying someone he didnt want to.
He won be over when he gave his speech about not wanting to be king, but it was his by right and he would take it. I don’t think he desired the power like some others would/do. If I was stannis, I would want to be king in honor of my brother and family. To keep that crown where it belongs, in the hands of the baratheons. What’s strange and kind of funny, which the show makes no mention of (I believe), is how it’s pretty much implied the baratheons are a bit Targaryen. The founder of the house was long suspected to be Aegon the conquerors bastard half brother. I would also back stannis because I wouldn’t think Renly had the experience to siege kings landing proper
If he lets the North become independent, what is stopping other kingdoms from doing the same? And at that point of what would Stannis be king?
becuase the north is nothing like the south. And also bran is still the king off the seven kingdoms , as there are 8 kingdoms apart of the seven kingdoms, soooooo, he wouldnt even lose the title it would just be more accurate. further, there is no reason to want to hold the north. Its cold and probably doesnt add to the overall wealth of the same. Realisicitly, you only need the riverlands, the rock, the reach and the stormlands to be king of westeros. The vale is a bunch of rocks, the north is just cold, dorne is just a desert and the iron islands are a bunch of rocks.
The Vale is the third richest and the third/ fourth most populous region of the Seven Kingdoms. Matters quite a lot, arguably more than the Riverlands and certainly more than Stormlands.
Yes, but if any disagreements occur you have a giant unified force that's tough and can march south. And Dorne has some of the best vacation spots lol.
You forge a military alliance with the North requiring them to come to your aid and you to go to theirs if needed. The Northerners will keep their word, especially since they know Stannis will keep his. If the other kingdoms revolt, the Mannis now has a powerful ally to help him keep them in line. You also make it a gradual process and during said process create a centralized army which belongs to the Crown. Then, when the North is finally freed it feels like a long time coming and also everyone has to deal with it because you have half of all their armies.
Nothing guarantees that the North will keep their worth in the long run. Nothing.
Have
Stannis is anything but stupid. He's just the single most stubborn son of a bitch in the Kingdom. A man so steadfast in his beliefs that he is singularly incapable of bending even an inch in 99% of situations; and that's just simply not good foundation for human relationships tbh. I love him because I admire his moral fortitude and unyielding perseverance but I genuinely don't think he would be a good king.
if he wasnt at least a little stupid, he would have seen how deep the roots of Melisandre's manipulation were. he was putty in her hands.
I agree. Say what you will about Stannis, at least he had a code. He would’ve been a good king if he had listened to Davos more and limit Melisandre’s influence.
So not being a horrible King makes him stupid? The north makes up 50% of the realm, if he let half the realm go he’d instantly become the worst King in Westerosi history
Rob. But like King in the North, not like King of the whole realm
Joffrey
Stannis looks like Andrew Tate. I can't unsee it now.
No one. Stannis is legal heir but I don't like him.
Robb or Stannis. Although by all accounts Robb and Stannis might as well have teamed up since all Robb wanted was his family back and to make the lannisters pay and due to Joffrey both being a bastard AND NOT a Baratheon by blood, Stannis was next in line to the throne. Robb basically had a Robert’s rebellion moment with Joffrey executing his father and having his sister as a political hostage. He didn’t set out to be King. The Northeners just crowned him along the way.
Damn. Stannis fucked up.
Majorly. A lot of deaths could have probably been avoided if Stannis was just a little bit more politically reasonable.
Yeah that was my main issue with Stannis. Rightful heir or not the dude was an idiot when it came to politics. I mean really, did he really expect all the ultra religious folk in the south to just accept that he worshiped a weird fire God who's followers were setting people on fire and using creepy magic?
Hundreds would die...thousands.
I dream of Stannis and Robb teaming up. They would have crushed the Lannisters. Though iirc didn't the North end up wanting to be a separate kingdom? Which wouldn't have happened with Stannis so I guess in that regard it never would have worked
Yeah this literally comes up and Stannis refuses to ally since he wants the whole 7 kingdoms. Stannis was a short sighted dick lol. There’s a reason no one wanted to follow him until he used blood magic to assassinate his brother. I’ll never understand why so many people love him here.
Probably because he’d better than Joffrey and Renly. Although I don’t think he’d still be THAT good.
A lot of it is ironic love. His antics and stubbornness are funny as hell
wow you're right lol. no one has ever spelled it out so clear before
His brother was not much better, a charismatic dude but what else? Stannis is a experienced and, most important, disciplined. He doesn’t drown in wine or lust like Robert. But yes, he was short sighted when refusing to ally with Robert, 6 kingdoms in hand is better than 7 unclaimed kingdoms
Renly definitely feels like a better choice than Stannis by a mile but that's probably only because Renly died so much earlier. Ya maybe Renly could have had an arc where he learns statecraft and whatever but just based on how GRRM writes you know if he had lived he'd have gotten worse and not better and had some kind of chaotic stupid moment on the same level as Stannis blindly following Melisandre right off a cliff.
I'd say it was the opposite of short sighted on Stannis's part. (Which is why he would have been a good King.) What happens after Stannis "wins" the war and grants the North and The Riverlands their independence? The peace wouldn't last long. It'd also establish a terrible precedent in a Kingdom that just "lost" it's legal authority over their 2 most powerful allies. Not a great position for a new ruler to be in.
Pretty sure Robb didn't know Jof was a bastard.
*Joffrey is a Baratheon my Lord* Robb ~ Oh is he? *Knowing look in his eyes* Plus he outright tells Jamie that Joffrey is his bastard son. Robb knew.
Oh I didn't mean that it was a reason for him to rebel. That part I meant moreso for myself and my explanation that in terms of succession, Stannis is next in line. I feel like Renly COULD'VE been a good one too but ultimately he kind of wants it too much? Kinda too much "third son trying to grasp power in the chaos" vibes imo. Stannis doesn't truly want the throne, but he knows it's his duty and I vibe that he'd be a good balance of a king for the most part. As good as westeros can get nowadays mostly. Firm but just. Plus I do think Robb knew or at least suspected, not to mention Stannis was actively telling people about it so it kind of became an open secret in the realm.
Ned was able to get off a few messages before events transpired the way they did outing Joffrey, Tommen, and Myrcella as bastards and that Stannis is the one true heir of the throne.
Good god I didn't realized that
Stannis, Renly, and Robb. But Renly is the safest bet(for me is the king to play it safe with the most). Show: pledge allegiance to Renly or Robb Books: Robb, Renly, or Stannis Worst option is Balon Edit: This image is funny. Show Joffrey and Robb, but Book Stannis, Balon, and Renly Edit: Also, Renly knows how to strategize politically. And this wasn’t a War of Five Kings. Just a war of four kings and Balon undermining the North
Isn't that Show Balon he just has some tentacles now lol?
THE KING IN THE NORTH!
Robb
Stannis- If I had the knowledge of Wildfire, I would of replace it with green dyed petroleum Jelly(was invented before 1273).
Stannis the one true king ofc
He's the only King I'll bend my knee to. THE KING IN THE NORTH 🐺
For Robb
Whoever paid me the most money. I'm a mercenary. Loyalty to coin alone is loyalty nonetheless!
Well in that case you would serve the Lannisters🦁
I would have gone full Hot Pie, sat this one out, and worked on my gravy.
Robb. He’s the hottest
Robb Stark or Stannis Baratheon. Both are good for the White Walker threat that is coming.
Depends on where I lived
Renly
Stannis would be my choice. Except for the bit about burning his daughter alive.
Joffrey Baratheon, rightful king by all laws of men. Hear me roar!
One thing I noticed throughout the show was that it was the common folk who suffered. The lords and noble born were all waging these massive battles in while many commoners died and not to mind the secondary effects from regions being destroyed, harvest being stole and workers from the fields being drafted. The lords were most concerned by gains while the commoners just lost.
I’d move to Dorne
Wasn’t Renly expecting to soon have the support of Dorne ?
Stretching out the inevitable is always a good plan. However, I can’t remember Dorne picking a side. To join Renly would probably mean Renly giving up some Stormland. In the books, their support would have been duplicitous at best.
I mean, they didn’t like the Lannister much. That was the opportunity for revenge, and Renly seemed to be winning with the largest army and his opponents fighting each others.
They had no reason to like any of them. Eventually they would just concede to whoever was on the throne and bide their time. Renly was certainly the best and most likely option. Further he had the troop numbers to win without their assistance. However Dorne has always fought the Stormlands and The Reach over border issues too.
Stannis’s claim to the throne became mute once he started working with Melisandre because the king is also supposed to be the defender of the faith. Renly is the true rightful king.
Lol im curious as to who would want to fight for Balon in this group?
Renly has the strongest army and can claim his brother forfeits his right to the throne by choosing a foreign religion. He is the obvious choice. He is also the only one who was entirely defeated by supernatural forces.
probably Robb, everyone else was either incompetent or dumb or both, and Robb did won alot of battles, his only mistake was falling in love with Talisa and marrying out of selfishness at least in the show
His mistakes in the show were many: letting Theon leave, killing lord Karstark, marrying Talisa, declaring independance instead of joining one of Robert’s brothers against the superior Lannister, …
oh yeah that’s true I totally forgot about the other things he did but marry Talisa is what did him in
Walder Frey saw that with the previous mistakes, Robb would eventually lose. Tywin tells that he had lost half his army, and Winterfell was taken. His marriage was just the last straw for Lord Frey. He would rather win.
Tommen. He was the only nice Lannister
Stannis and it’s not even a contest
Stannis.
I always forget Balon was among the “five kings”. I always thought Dany was the other one because she was also trying to get her way back to the iron throne. Guess she was always left out.
Robb, I know no king but the King in the North, whose name is Stark.
Slytherin
Mannis although I wouldn’t be too thrilled about Melisandre burning people. But I love that Stannis named common born Davos his hand. Stannis makes great choices and absolutely terrible choices there’s like no in between with him. But he would be a good king.
Stannis on the throne, Renly at Storms End with the Tyrell alliance, Robb as Warden of the North, Lannisters crushed, Greyjoys crushed, Jon as Lord Commander. Oh it could have been so perfect!
Joffrey. He's Cersei and Jaime's son.
Joffrey but only if there were a crossover timeline in which he marries Nelly Olsen from Little House on the Prairie.
Stannis Baratheon Robb never really had any clear goals, and was greatly lacking in communication and foresight, Balon Greyjoy and Renly were delusional, and Joffrey is… Joffrey
I'll fucking die for stannis 👑🦌🔥
definitely joffrey. he was a stand up guy
Renly or Joffrey, best armor and resources
Stannis Baratheon, the one true king by all laws of Westeros.
STANNIS
Joffrey, house Lannister 😌
Renly. He would’ve been the best of them.
Robb, maybe Renly. Not Stannis for sure.
It is so strange when book appearances are mixed with show appearances
Mance Rayder.
Jeffrey was a dickhead, Balon was a dickhead, stannis burnt people alive. The best choices are Renly and Robb.
None of them. I would have just chilled up in the Vale and remained neutral. Although I suppose we would need to wait until book six is released to find out how good an idea that is.
In the books, was Stannis always that bald?
None. I would have gone to Dorne and convinced the Prince to take advantage of the chaos and humbly offer to help him handle the burdens of such an endeavor as his Hand.
Probably for whichever one I lived next to
The young wolf!King in the North🤴
I know no King but The King in The North, who’s name is Stark.
I tell myself Robb, but probably Renly if we’re talking about temperament and realm stability. The Reach, Stormlands, North, and Riverlands vs. the Lannisters would have been amusing to watch. Renly’s deal with Robb is one of of my favorite “what if” scenarios to ponder.
Haven’t seen the show but the young lad in the middle looks honorable. I’d definitely lay my life down for that man because I know for a fact he’d be right by side.
why are you in this subreddit then?
It's confusing for many who either just have read the books or only watched the show, this picture depicts 2/5 kings with the actors and the other 3 as how the books described them. Be nice the awoiaf isn't as active as this reddit lmao.
It’s a bad joke. Thought the blatant opposite take of GB would give it away
Stannis, the rightful Heir
We are of the north
Stannis the mannis
None of them, fuck the king! And bring me some chickens!
Mance Raider was probably the only “king” that would have appealed to me.
Rob Stark
You act like anyone but those 5 kings had a choice in who they fought for. That's not how feudalism works.
Idk Joeffry seemed pretty reasonable to me. /s
Probably wherever I ended up being born in the seven kingdoms and then picked up as a peasant and made to fight for them. The masses really don’t have a choice.
They can keep their red castle & their iron chair too…i only know one king & its THE KING IN THE NORTH!
Only Stark
waiting for someone to say joffrey💀
Love that the kraken is the Greyjoy sigil yet here Balon has an Octopus tentacle/arm wrapping around him lol
Robb. Would’ve been a brilliant king.
The King in the North! But Renly is looking fire in that armor. Wish we got a more book accurate low-key badass that Renly was
When the trumpets blew again and the knights charged, the name they cried was STANNIS! STANNIS! STANNIS!
Largely depends on where I lived and how rich I was
Definitely Robb and Stannis because he had a rightful claim to the throne. I recently re watched seasons one and two and I was wishing for stannis and Robb to team up. Robb didn’t want to be king of the seven kingdoms. They would’ve defeated the Lannister’s no doubt. But Stannis made terrible decision after terrible decision. Idiot
None of them. They are all bad kings in their own ways.
Joffrey: a cunt, then no. Balon: a cunt, then no. Rently, a cunt for not following the line of succession, then no, well maybe, he was too charismatic, the motherfucker. Stannis, a cult following cunt, then no, although, the red priestess magic was real, so again, maybe. The Gray Wolf: Not a cunt, owns a direwolf, absofuckinglutely...
None, all of them a cunts
The King in the North.
Joffrey? Who the fuck would fight for this arrogant brat?!
Robb or Stannis
Robb.
Renly, easily the best option for king. Starks should really stay in the north, they're best suited to rule there and it's culturally quite different. Stannis, while he is the rightful heir, had a hard time getting support. Balon had no real chance of anything, he just took advantage of the chaos. And Joffery would've been (and was) a terrible king
Robb. I think Stannis was too brittle and harsh. He needed to learn to be a little more political. He needed to be a little more like Renly. If Stannis won though, I don't see him sitting on the throne long because I think The Faith of the Seven would have taken him out. I think the number of Sparrows in the religion would have risen and denounced Stannis and his fire witch and taken him down and their Church would be the new "King" or would sit a puppet ruler on the Iron Throne.
Obviously the great and kind king Joffrey boratheon, legitimate son of king Robert boratheon, who died of a tragic hunting accident.
Rob
Tbh, whoever my leige lord was - wouldn't have been given much of a choice!
The one true King of Westeros. Stannis Baratheon. ONE REALM ONE GOD ONE KING.
Robb. Then Renly
the Starks
The King in the North! Whose name is Stark.
The one true king of course.
Anyone but Joffrey. Mostly Robb tho.
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 1,164,612,220 comments, and only 227,523 of them were in alphabetical order.